From: sonshi57@mindspring.com (Douglas Henderson) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Critical works on Tolkien's LOTR Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 02:23:54 GMT Organization: DarkGrey Consulting Lines: 19 Message-ID: <37eb8e00.4102434@news.mindspring.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.10.8e Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server-Date: 23 Sep 1999 02:22:05 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!remarQ-easT!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail Well, having read LOTR and having dug out and dusted off for future perusal the Sil and LT, I was glancing through Lin Carter's early work "Imaginary Worlds" which I had on my shelf. Nice but flawed in many ways I think. In any event, I wonder is there a book that hews to the middle ground between bashing and beatifying the good professor and his work in LOTR? Something that will point out the flaws, miscues and where JRRT nodded, but does it without being a hatchet job in the aim of proving that the author of the work would have written it oh!, so much better? I find myself perplexed by the shifts in tone and in authorial voice between the books and want to read something that will comment on the construction of LOTR. Thank you for any suggestions. -- \/\/\/\/ Sindamor Pandaturion ###### From: Gregory Graham Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Critical works on Tolkien's LOTR Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 09:44:50 -0500 Organization: Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory Lines: 64 Message-ID: <37EB8E62.52E8C7FD@fnal.gov> References: <37eb8e00.4102434@news.mindspring.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d02ka.fnal.gov Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51C-SGI [en] (X11; I; IRIX64 6.5 IP27) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newsmaster-01.vbs.at!rohrpostix.uta4you.at!newsfeed03.univie.ac.at!news.sbg.ac.at!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!info1.fnal.gov!newscli.fnal.gov!not-for-mail A good collection of essays can be found in "Tolkein and the Critics" by N. Isaacs and R. Zimbardo, eds. The essays run the gamut from hatchet job (lightly done, really) to fawning adoration. I think this one is out of print, however; but you should really try to get it at a library. Since essays are short, these never fall into the trap of regurgitating long synopses of the story, which I have found (in my small sample) to be a curious and annoying characteristic of longer works of Tolkein criticism. I found "Master of Middle Earth" by Paul Kocher to be an interesting work mostly for its analysis of the Aragorn character, but it also presents some interesting ideas about the other characters and the function of the ring in the overall narrative structure. Jane Chance's "The Lord of the Rings : The Mythology of Power" is very original in its treatment of community and use of language. There were a few minor factual errors, but these did not detract from the overall freshness of analysis and ideas presented there. I have a few more, but I must say that I've never found a truly great work of criticism that explores in both breadth and detail what Tolkein says in the LotR through its overall narrative structure. Have fun looking ! There's nothing quite like combing through used book stores for out-of-print titles; but if you're in a hurry you could try searching in amazon.com, for example. -Greg Graham Douglas Henderson wrote: > Well, having read LOTR and having dug out and dusted off for future > perusal the Sil and LT, I was glancing through Lin Carter's early work > "Imaginary Worlds" which I had on my shelf. Nice but flawed in many > ways I think. > > In any event, I wonder is there a book that hews to the middle ground > between bashing and beatifying the good professor and his work in > LOTR? Something that will point out the flaws, miscues and where JRRT > nodded, but does it without being a hatchet job in the aim of proving > that the author of the work would have written it oh!, so much better? > > I find myself perplexed by the shifts in tone and in authorial voice > between the books and want to read something that will comment on the > construction of LOTR. > > Thank you for any suggestions. > -- > \/\/\/\/ > Sindamor Pandaturion -- ****************************************************************************** Greg Graham ggraham@fnal.gov University of Maryland DZero Collaboration 630-840-2321 ****************************************************************************** ###### From: Douglas Henderson Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Critical works on Tolkien's LOTR Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 11:19:48 -0400 Organization: DarkGrey Consulting Lines: 43 Message-ID: <37EB9694.A80C465D@mindspring.com> References: <37eb8e00.4102434@news.mindspring.com> <37EB8E62.52E8C7FD@fnal.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.02.9d Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server-Date: 24 Sep 1999 15:19:12 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!isdnet!newsfeed.axxsys.net!remarQ-easT!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail Gregory Graham wrote: > > A good collection of essays can be found in "Tolkein and the Critics" > by N. Isaacs and R. Zimbardo, eds. The essays run the gamut from > hatchet job (lightly done, really) to fawning adoration. I think this one > is out of print, however; but you should really try to get it at a library. > Since essays are short, these never fall into the trap of regurgitating > long synopses of the story, which I have found (in my small sample) > to be a curious and annoying characteristic of longer works of Tolkein > criticism. > > I found "Master of Middle Earth" by Paul Kocher to be an interesting > work mostly for its analysis of the Aragorn character, but it also > presents some interesting ideas about the other characters and the > function of the ring in the overall narrative structure. > > Jane Chance's "The Lord of the Rings : The Mythology of Power" > is very original in its treatment of community and use of language. > There were a few minor factual errors, but these did not detract from > the overall freshness of analysis and ideas presented there. > > I have a few more, but I must say that I've never found a truly great > work of criticism that explores in both breadth and detail what Tolkein > says in the LotR through its overall narrative structure. > > Have fun looking ! There's nothing quite like combing through used book > stores for out-of-print titles; but if you're in a hurry you could try searching > in amazon.com, for example. > > -Greg Graham > > Douglas Henderson wrote: SNIP my query and his sig Also, this was mentioned on the Conan group although I have not tried it yet. Advanced Book Exchange: http://www.abebooks.com/ It's an internet consortium of used bookstores. I have found Amazon a bit spotty when it comes to out of print books, although I will probably get the ones you cite from the library. Many thanks for your response. -- Douglas Henderson ###### From: Douglas Henderson Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Critical works on Tolkien's LOTR Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 15:39:16 -0400 Organization: DarkGrey Consulting Lines: 22 Message-ID: <37F3BC64.8DB60C88@mindspring.com> References: <37eb8e00.4102434@news.mindspring.com> <37EB8E62.52E8C7FD@fnal.gov> <37EB9694.A80C465D@mindspring.com> <37F3B8CA.92F92113@planet.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.16.16 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server-Date: 30 Sep 1999 19:40:41 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [en] (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!remarQ-easT!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail cirya wrote: > > Douglas Henderson wrote: > > > > Gregory Graham wrote: > > > > Question for both of you: > What's your opinion on "Defending Middle-Earth" by Patrick Curry? > -- > Love, > Cirya > > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * > You should have fun being a librarian, > because you won't get rich being a librarian > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I am at the beginning of my critical reading on Tolkien, so I must defer. -- Douglas Henderson ###### From: cirya Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Critical works on Tolkien's LOTR Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 21:23:54 +0200 Organization: Planet Internet Lines: 16 Message-ID: <37F3B8CA.92F92113@planet.nl> References: <37eb8e00.4102434@news.mindspring.com> <37EB8E62.52E8C7FD@fnal.gov> <37EB9694.A80C465D@mindspring.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ehv0265-2.dial.wxs.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: reader1.wxs.nl 938719875 22659 195.121.157.9 (30 Sep 1999 19:31:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wxs.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Sep 1999 19:31:15 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!isdnet!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed1.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!gate.news.unisource.nl!news.wxs.nl!not-for-mail Douglas Henderson wrote: > > Gregory Graham wrote: Question for both of you: What's your opinion on "Defending Middle-Earth" by Patrick Curry? -- Love, Cirya * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * You should have fun being a librarian, because you won't get rich being a librarian * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *