From: "Matt Sleight" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: I'm changing my name today. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:33:49 +0100 Message-ID: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: qualitop.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: qualitop.demon.co.uk:212.228.154.17 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 937946078 nnrp-04:7399 NO-IDENT qualitop.demon.co.uk:212.228.154.17 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Lines: 5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!qualitop.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail I am now Ernil I Giliath. A prize to anyone who can tell me what it means! ###### From: "Laurie Forbes" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Lines: 19 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 17:17:31 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.210.73.231 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: newsr2.maine.rr.com 937948639 204.210.73.231 (Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:17:19 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 14:17:19 PDT Organization: RoadRunner Portland, Maine Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!chnws03.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.1.91!chnws02.mediaone.net!204.210.64.17!newsf1.maine.rr.com!newsr2.maine.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Matt Sleight wrote in message news:937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk... > I am now Ernil I Giliath. > > A prize to anyone who can tell me what it means! > > Well, it's Prince of [Something] in whatever language - besides the Common Speech - was spoken in Minas Tirith; but I'm not putting any more thought into it than that, because I've been promised prizes before and they've never materialized. (You know who you are: Grimgard and Cuteboy.) -- Laurie "But It's a Nice New Name" Forbes PS Should the "I" be lower-case? ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <937950297.9647.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <37E81ED2.23D55896@wizard.net> Reply-To: molinari@math.lsa.umich.edu From: Rory Molinari Message-ID: <7fy1zbru7qp.fsf@aryabhata.math.lsa.umich.edu> Lines: 10 X-Newsreader: Quassia Gnus v0.29/Emacs 19.34 Date: 21 Sep 1999 20:09:50 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 141.211.60.58 X-Trace: news.itd.umich.edu 937958923 141.211.60.58 (Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:08:43 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:08:43 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.eecs.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!not-for-mail >>>>> "James" == James Kuyper writes: James> Ernil I Giliath wrote: >> I know, the prize is a big bowl of invisible sweets! lol James> I don't care whether they're visible. Are they edible? I don't care whether they're edible. I'm more interested in the bowl. Rory ###### Message-ID: <37E81ED2.23D55896@wizard.net> From: "James Kuyper Jr." Organization: Not Enough X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en,de,es,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <937950297.9647.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 10 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.8.153.19 X-Trace: typ12.nn.bcandid.com 937958598 209.8.153.19 (Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:03:18 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:03:18 EDT Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 20:12:02 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!gate.bcandid.com.MISMATCH!gw12.nn.bcandid.com!gate.bCandid.com!typ12.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Ernil I Giliath wrote: > > I know, the prize is a big bowl of invisible sweets! lol I don't care whether they're visible. Are they edible? > > Well, it's Prince of [Something] in whatever language - besides the Common > > Speech - was spoken in Minas Tirith; but I'm not putting any more thought > > into it than that, because I've been promised prizes before and they've > > never materialized. (You know who you are: Grimgard and Cuteboy.) ###### From: mcresq@aol.com (McREsq) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Lines: 9 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 21 Sep 1999 20:57:21 GMT References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Message-ID: <19990921165721.08086.00000056@ngol02.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!news.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail In article <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk>, "Matt Sleight" writes: >I am now Ernil I Giliath. > >A prize to anyone who can tell me what it means! > well giliath means stars... ###### From: "Ernil I Giliath" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:44:08 +0100 Message-ID: <937950297.9647.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: qualitop.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: qualitop.demon.co.uk:212.228.154.17 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 937950297 nnrp-04:9647 NO-IDENT qualitop.demon.co.uk:212.228.154.17 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Lines: 28 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!qualitop.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail I know, the prize is a big bowl of invisible sweets! lol -- Make sure you visit http://stuffworld.org right now! Laurie Forbes wrote in message news:zBSF3.262$ZI2.660@newsr2.maine.rr.com... > > Matt Sleight wrote in message > news:937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk... > > I am now Ernil I Giliath. > > > > A prize to anyone who can tell me what it means! > > > > > Well, it's Prince of [Something] in whatever language - besides the Common > Speech - was spoken in Minas Tirith; but I'm not putting any more thought > into it than that, because I've been promised prizes before and they've > never materialized. (You know who you are: Grimgard and Cuteboy.) > > -- > Laurie "But It's a Nice New Name" Forbes > > PS Should the "I" be lower-case? > > ###### From: "Alatar" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Date: Tue, 21 Sep 1999 22:46:09 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 10 Message-ID: <7s8u7g$10c$1@news4.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-84.benadryl.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news4.svr.pol.co.uk 937950256 1036 62.136.54.212 (21 Sep 1999 21:44:16 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Sep 1999 21:44:16 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newscore.ipf.de!newsfeed.icl.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Matt Sleight wrote in message <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk>... >I am now Ernil I Giliath. > >A prize to anyone who can tell me what it means! > Prince of stars? ###### From: orius@webtv.net (David Sulger) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 02:38:28 -0400 (EDT) Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 9 Message-ID: <17609-37E87964-74@newsd-251.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhRvjHJpvpax5hniT40Mfvn9mE9KDgIVAJymBUUYT2wfNad7iW5egw4iZp+w Content-Disposition: Inline Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!newsfeed.concentric.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail Ernil wrote: >I am now Ernil I Giliath. >A prize to anyone who can tell me what it >means! This is the Sindarin for "Prince of the Stars" ###### From: colinr@toliman.uio.no (Colin Rosenthal) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Date: 22 Sep 1999 07:28:55 GMT Organization: University of Oslo, Norway Lines: 12 Message-ID: <7sa0fn$a0i$2@readme.uio.no> References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: colin.rosenthal@astro.uio.no NNTP-Posting-Host: toliman.uio.no User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.3 (UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!192.109.251.117.MISMATCH!news3-muc.ecrc.net!uio.no!nntp.uio.no!colinr On Tue, 21 Sep 1999 21:33:49 +0100, Matt Sleight wrote: >I am now Ernil I Giliath. > >A prize to anyone who can tell me what it means! I'm changing my name to "Ernil the Fastest Milkman in the West". -- Colin Rosenthal Astrophysics Institute University of Oslo ###### Message-ID: <37E8D8ED.4CA3F8A0@mediaone.net> From: Cian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-MOENE (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 26 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:26:05 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.99.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net 938006900 24.128.99.214 (Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:28:20 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:28:20 EDT Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.60.9!ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Piotr Auksztulewicz wrote: > Matt Sleight wrote: > > I am now Ernil I Giliath. > > Hmmm, shouldn't it read Erinil _In_ Giliath? _Giliath_ is plural. > Cf. Aerlinn in Edhil o Imladris Sindarin 'Giliath' is indeed collective plural, (-(i)ath). As I understand it, the problem you point to is solved by something called nasal mutation, where 'i Pheriannath' actually represents 'in Periannath'; attested by the form 'Pheriannath' in: 'Ernil i Pheriannath' = 'Prince (of) the Halflings' (from "Minas Tirith"); I prefer 'Elernil' - 'Star-prince' (or 'Gil-ernil') myself, but that's cause I type slow. ;) -- Cheers Cian Elenillor pella Varda tiruvalyë tielyanna ###### Message-ID: <37E8DA81.12DBCA94@mediaone.net> From: Cian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-MOENE (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <37E8D8ED.4CA3F8A0@mediaone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 33 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:32:49 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.99.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net 938007305 24.128.99.214 (Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:35:05 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 09:35:05 EDT Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.60.9!ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Cian wrote: > Piotr Auksztulewicz wrote: > > > Matt Sleight wrote: > > > I am now Ernil I Giliath. > > > > Hmmm, shouldn't it read Erinil _In_ Giliath? _Giliath_ is plural. > > Cf. Aerlinn in Edhil o Imladris > > Sindarin 'Giliath' is indeed collective plural, (-(i)ath). > > As I understand it, the problem you point to is solved by something called > nasal mutation, where 'i Pheriannath' actually represents 'in Periannath'; > attested by the form 'Pheriannath' in: > > 'Ernil i Pheriannath' = 'Prince (of) the Halflings' (from "Minas > Tirith"); > > I prefer 'Elernil' - 'Star-prince' (or 'Gil-ernil') myself, but that's cause > I type slow. ;) > > -- Cheers > Cian > Elenillor pella Varda tiruvalyë tielyanna Oop, left out that that solves the problem in the 'Pheriannath' quote of course, but not the 'i Giliath' specifically. 'in' seems correct there to me too. ###### Message-ID: <37E905D7.3A8B9D42@mediaone.net> From: Cian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-MOENE (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:37:43 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.99.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net 938018397 24.128.99.214 (Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:39:57 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 12:39:57 EDT Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.60.9!ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Piotr Auksztulewicz wrote: > Matt Sleight wrote: > > I am now Ernil I Giliath. > > Hmmm, shouldn't it read Erinil _In_ Giliath? _Giliath_ is plural. > Cf. Aerlinn in Edhil o Imladris Umm, re-write. My apologies to the group, my initial post was accidentally sent without a clarifying 'intro'. New, but brief answer -- I agree with 'Ernil -in- Giliath' Piotr. I think Matt may have been following the 'Ernil i Pheriannath' quote from 'Minas Tirith', (that's why I brought it up earlier, albeit confusingly without said 'intro') -but- there, nasal mutation apparently validates Sindarin 'i' before the collective plural 'Pheriannath'. That's better, hopefully. :) Cheers. Cian ###### From: Piotr Auksztulewicz Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Date: 22 Sep 1999 14:13:57 +0200 Organization: Politechnika Slaska, Gliwice Lines: 9 Message-ID: <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-981225 ("Volcane") (UNIX) (HP-UX/B.10.20 (9000/800)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.man.poznan.pl!polsl.gliwice.pl!not-for-mail Matt Sleight wrote: > I am now Ernil I Giliath. Hmmm, shouldn't it read Erinil _In_ Giliath? _Giliath_ is plural. Cf. Aerlinn in Edhil o Imladris -- Piotr Auksztulewicz piotras@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl Silesian Tech. Univ. Computer Center, 16 Akademicka St., Gliwice, Poland ###### From: mcresq@aol.com (McREsq) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Lines: 4 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 22 Sep 1999 14:55:13 GMT References: <37E8DA81.12DBCA94@mediaone.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: AOL Offline Reader Message-ID: <19990922105513.08286.00000039@ngol07.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.idt.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!spamz.news.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail If you change your name again, will you be the artist formerly known as ernil? Russ ###### From: mark@pc-intouch.com (Mark Wells) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> Reply-To: mark@pc-intouch.com Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.7 (UNIX) X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: colpanic.office.pc-intouch.com Lines: 14 Date: 22 Sep 1999 15:22:40 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.212.198.18 X-Complaints-To: abuse@pacbell.net X-Trace: typhoon-la.pbi.net 938038964 207.212.198.18 (Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:22:44 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 15:22:44 PDT Organization: SBC Internet Services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!cyclone.swbell.net!typhoon-la.pbi.net.POSTED!not-for-mail On 22 Sep 1999 14:13:57 +0200, Piotr Auksztulewicz wrote: >Matt Sleight wrote: >> I am now Ernil I Giliath. > >Hmmm, shouldn't it read Erinil _In_ Giliath? _Giliath_ is plural. >Cf. Aerlinn in Edhil o Imladris _Giliath_ is *collective*, not plural. It refers to "the set of stars", which is singular. _Edhil_ is plural. The collective would probably be something like _Edhelath_. ###### From: the softrat Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 16:03:19 -0700 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <37E905D7.3A8B9D42@mediaone.net> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.6/32.525 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!remarQ-easT!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:58:43 GMT, dsalo@usa.net (David Salo) wrote: >In article <37E905D7.3A8B9D42@mediaone.net>, Cian wrote: > >> I agree with 'Ernil -in- Giliath' Piotr. I think Matt may have been >> following the 'Ernil i Pheriannath' quote from 'Minas Tirith', (that's why I >> brought it up earlier, albeit confusingly without said 'intro') -but- there, >> nasal mutation apparently validates Sindarin 'i' before the collective >> plural 'Pheriannath'. That's better, hopefully. :) > > Hurray, people know about nasal mutations! :) > > DS There is a cure for nasal mutations now. Just see your rhinologist. May the Farce Be With You the softrat ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien From: MIchael@xenite.org (Michael Martinez) Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Organization: Xenite.Org: Worlds of Imagination on the Web Distribution: world Message-ID: <7sbav8$1tc_008@Org.xenite.org> References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Lines: 23 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:34:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.181.119.102 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 938028970 209.181.119.102 (Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:36:10 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:36:10 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net!Xenite In article , "Laurie Forbes" wrote: >Matt Sleight wrote in message >news:937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk... >> I am now Ernil I Giliath. >> >> A prize to anyone who can tell me what it means! >> >> >Well, it's Prince of [Something] in whatever language - besides the Common >Speech - was spoken in Minas Tirith; but I'm not putting any more thought >into it than that, because I've been promised prizes before and they've >never materialized. (You know who you are: Grimgard and Cuteboy.) Prince of the Stars. Another possible meaning could be the Star Prince. The language is Sindarin. -- \\ // Worlds of Imagination on the Web info@xenite.org \\// FREE! Watch Internet TV shows at Xenite.Org! //\\ [http://www.xenite.org/index.htm] // \\ENITE.org............................................... ###### From: dsalo@usa.net (David Salo) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Message-ID: References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 Lines: 13 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:57:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.170.71.10 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tds.net (TDS.NET help Desk 1-888-815-5992) X-Trace: ratbert.tds.net 938030257 208.170.71.10 (Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:57:37 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:57:37 CDT Organization: TDS.NET Internet Services www.tds.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!chi.uu.net!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!ratbert.tds.net!dsalo In article <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl>, Piotr Auksztulewicz wrote: > Matt Sleight wrote: > > I am now Ernil I Giliath. > > Hmmm, shouldn't it read Erinil _In_ Giliath? _Giliath_ is plural. > Cf. Aerlinn in Edhil o Imladris That's right. You can also compare "Dagor nu_in_ Giliath" "Battle under the Stars". David Salo ###### From: dsalo@usa.net (David Salo) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Message-ID: References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <37E905D7.3A8B9D42@mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 Lines: 11 Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:58:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.170.71.10 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tds.net (TDS.NET help Desk 1-888-815-5992) X-Trace: ratbert.tds.net 938030323 208.170.71.10 (Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:58:43 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 14:58:43 CDT Organization: TDS.NET Internet Services www.tds.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!ratbert.tds.net!dsalo In article <37E905D7.3A8B9D42@mediaone.net>, Cian wrote: > I agree with 'Ernil -in- Giliath' Piotr. I think Matt may have been > following the 'Ernil i Pheriannath' quote from 'Minas Tirith', (that's why I > brought it up earlier, albeit confusingly without said 'intro') -but- there, > nasal mutation apparently validates Sindarin 'i' before the collective > plural 'Pheriannath'. That's better, hopefully. :) Hurray, people know about nasal mutations! :) DS ###### From: "Ernil I Giliath" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:04:46 +0100 Message-ID: <938034341.7789.0.nnrp-06.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <937950297.9647.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: qualitop.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: qualitop.demon.co.uk:212.228.154.17 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 938034341 nnrp-06:7789 NO-IDENT qualitop.demon.co.uk:212.228.154.17 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Lines: 39 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!iol.ie!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!qualitop.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail er no -- Make sure you visit http://stuffworld.org right now! Ernil I Giliath wrote in message news:937950297.9647.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk... > I know, the prize is a big bowl of invisible sweets! lol > > -- > Make sure you visit http://stuffworld.org right now! > > Laurie Forbes wrote in message > news:zBSF3.262$ZI2.660@newsr2.maine.rr.com... > > > > Matt Sleight wrote in message > > news:937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk... > > > I am now Ernil I Giliath. > > > > > > A prize to anyone who can tell me what it means! > > > > > > > > Well, it's Prince of [Something] in whatever language - besides the Common > > Speech - was spoken in Minas Tirith; but I'm not putting any more thought > > into it than that, because I've been promised prizes before and they've > > never materialized. (You know who you are: Grimgard and Cuteboy.) > > > > -- > > Laurie "But It's a Nice New Name" Forbes > > > > PS Should the "I" be lower-case? > > > > > > ###### From: "Ernil I Giliath" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:04:57 +0100 Message-ID: <938034350.7796.0.nnrp-06.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <937950297.9647.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <37E81ED2.23D55896@wizard.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: qualitop.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: qualitop.demon.co.uk:212.228.154.17 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 938034350 nnrp-06:7796 NO-IDENT qualitop.demon.co.uk:212.228.154.17 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Lines: 22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!iol.ie!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!qualitop.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail er no -- Make sure you visit http://stuffworld.org right now! James Kuyper Jr. wrote in message news:37E81ED2.23D55896@wizard.net... > Ernil I Giliath wrote: > > > > I know, the prize is a big bowl of invisible sweets! lol > > I don't care whether they're visible. Are they edible? > > > > Well, it's Prince of [Something] in whatever language - besides the Common > > > Speech - was spoken in Minas Tirith; but I'm not putting any more thought > > > into it than that, because I've been promised prizes before and they've > > > never materialized. (You know who you are: Grimgard and Cuteboy.) ###### From: "Ernil I Giliath" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Date: Wed, 22 Sep 1999 22:05:18 +0100 Message-ID: <938034372.7806.0.nnrp-06.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <937950297.9647.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <37E81ED2.23D55896@wizard.net> <7fy1zbru7qp.fsf@aryabhata.math.lsa.umich.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: qualitop.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: qualitop.demon.co.uk:212.228.154.17 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 938034372 nnrp-06:7806 NO-IDENT qualitop.demon.co.uk:212.228.154.17 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Lines: 19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!iol.ie!newsfeed.icl.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!qualitop.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail it's a lovely terracotta bowl with a big brown stain on the bottom! -- Make sure you visit http://stuffworld.org right now! Rory Molinari wrote in message news:7fy1zbru7qp.fsf@aryabhata.math.lsa.umich.edu... > >>>>> "James" == James Kuyper writes: > > James> Ernil I Giliath wrote: > >> I know, the prize is a big bowl of invisible sweets! lol > > James> I don't care whether they're visible. Are they edible? > > I don't care whether they're edible. I'm more interested in the bowl. > > Rory ###### Message-ID: <37EA1A03.EAD47C0E@mediaone.net> From: Cian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-MOENE (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 32 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:16:03 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.99.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net 938089101 24.128.99.214 (Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:18:21 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 08:18:21 EDT Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.60.9!ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Mark Wells wrote: > On 22 Sep 1999 14:13:57 +0200, Piotr Auksztulewicz > wrote: > >Matt Sleight wrote: > >> I am now Ernil I Giliath. > > > >Hmmm, shouldn't it read Erinil _In_ Giliath? _Giliath_ is plural. > >Cf. Aerlinn in Edhil o Imladris > > _Giliath_ is *collective*, not plural. It refers to "the set of stars", > which is singular. > > _Edhil_ is plural. The collective would probably be something like > _Edhelath_. Collective nouns can be both singular and plural in the modern 'Englisc'. Anyway, as for Sindarin 'Giliath' specifically, note 'Dagor nuin Giliath' (which David Salo pointed out in an earlier post, thanks to Mr. Salo). Tolkien uses the article for the collective plural, marrying it to 'nu' - 'under' 'beneath' [Battle beneath the Stars] Singular would be 'nui'. I still like 'Gil-ernil' anyway -- ok, not so pleasing to the ear maybe, but does the job for Sindarin 'Star-prince' and has the hyphenated look of 'Gil-galad'. -- Cheers, Kian ###### From: Piotr Auksztulewicz Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Date: 23 Sep 1999 12:25:04 +0200 Organization: Politechnika Slaska, Gliwice Lines: 12 Message-ID: <7scv60$lr2$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> NNTP-Posting-Host: zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-981225 ("Volcane") (UNIX) (HP-UX/B.10.20 (9000/800)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.man.poznan.pl!news.icm.edu.pl!news.onet.pl!polsl.gliwice.pl!not-for-mail Mark Wells wrote: >>Hmmm, shouldn't it read Erinil _In_ Giliath? _Giliath_ is plural. >>Cf. Aerlinn in Edhil o Imladris > _Giliath_ is *collective*, not plural. It refers to "the set of stars", > which is singular. Yes, it is collective, but nevertheless plural. -- Piotr Auksztulewicz piotras@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl Silesian Tech. Univ. Computer Center, 16 Akademicka St., Gliwice, Poland ###### Message-ID: <37EA6839.11DE74CB@indigo.ie> From: Michael O'Neill Organization: O'Neill Quigley & Associates X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <37E905D7.3A8B9D42@mediaone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:49:45 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.125.145.146 X-Complaints-To: news@indigo.ie X-Trace: news.indigo.ie 938109016 194.125.145.146 (Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:50:16 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 18:50:16 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!carrier1.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!iol.ie!news.indigo.ie!not-for-mail the softrat wrote: > > On Wed, 22 Sep 1999 19:58:43 GMT, dsalo@usa.net (David Salo) wrote: > > >In article <37E905D7.3A8B9D42@mediaone.net>, Cian wrote: > > > >> I agree with 'Ernil -in- Giliath' Piotr. I think Matt may have been > >> following the 'Ernil i Pheriannath' quote from 'Minas Tirith', (that's why I > >> brought it up earlier, albeit confusingly without said 'intro') -but- there, > >> nasal mutation apparently validates Sindarin 'i' before the collective > >> plural 'Pheriannath'. That's better, hopefully. :) > > > > Hurray, people know about nasal mutations! :) > > > > DS > There is a cure for nasal mutations now. Just see your rhinologist. Ah, the rat with the big nose speaks... :-) M. ###### From: "Matt Atwood" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Date: Sat, 25 Sep 1999 20:02:33 -0400 Organization: Duke University, Durham, NC, USA Lines: 20 Message-ID: <7sjnn4$qeh$1@news.duke.edu> References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <37EA1A03.EAD47C0E@mediaone.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: res-152-16-233-165.dorm.duke.edu X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!news.iif.hu!fu-berlin.de!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsgate.duke.edu!usenet Kian wrote: [snip] >I still like 'Gil-ernil' anyway -- ok, not so pleasing to the ear maybe, but >does the job for Sindarin 'Star-prince' and has the hyphenated look of >'Gil-galad'. > >-- > Cheers, > Kian I agree, although it certainly isn't very aesthetically pleasing ... saying "Ernil i(n) Giliath" seems like you're encroaching a bit on Varda's territory. It sounds a bit like calling yourself Ar-Adunakhor (or Tar-Herunumen), and we all know what happened to the last person who tried that (or, rather, to his descendants). -Matt ###### Message-ID: <37EFBFB6.F3D18302@mediaone.net> From: Cian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-MOENE (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <37EA1A03.EAD47C0E@mediaone.net> <7sjnn4$qeh$1@news.duke.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:04:22 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.99.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net 938459205 24.128.99.214 (Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:06:45 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Sep 1999 15:06:45 EDT Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!colt.net!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!netnews.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.60.9!ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Matt Atwood wrote: > ... saying "Ernil i(n) Giliath" seems like you're encroaching a bit on > Varda's > territory. It sounds a bit like calling yourself Ar-Adunakhor (or > Tar-Herunumen), and we all know what happened to the last person who tried > that (or, rather, to his descendants). > > -Matt Yes, kinda exalted sounding. Elbereth may want a word or two with this 'princely' Sinda. ;) 'Ernil i Ngiliath' is also a possible Sindarin form I think. -- Maar aure! Kian ###### Message-ID: <37F13ADC.4DAFD3E4@mediaone.net> From: Cian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-MOENE (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <37EA1A03.EAD47C0E@mediaone.net> <7sjnn4$qeh$1@news.duke.edu> <37EFBFB6.F3D18302@mediaone.net> <938549271.21302.0.nnrp-03.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 34 Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:02:04 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.99.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net 938556272 24.128.99.214 (Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:04:32 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 18:04:32 EDT Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!netnews.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.60.9!ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Ernil I Giliath wrote: > It is Ernil I Giliath, as Osgiliath means Citadel of the stars, and Gil > means star. A few posters (and I) have just been trying to point out that Sindarin employs plural articles before plural nouns. A collective plural like 'Giliath' takes the plural article 'in' ('the') (singular is 'i') > Ernil i Pherinnath means Phince of the halflings, and so I figure that Ernil > I means prince ..... the and Giliath means of the Stars. In Sindarin, 'i P*h*eriannath' is an example of 'nasal mutation' -- initial 'P' to 'PH'. In other words, 'i Pheriannath' = '*in* Periannath'. (note the loss of the -h- in the second example) I also proposed the more archaic looking 'Ernil i Ngiliath' as a possible form based on 'Dagor- nui- Ngiliath'. [ which = 'Dagor nuin Giliath' - 'Battle under the Stars'] Plural 'in' is attested for the collective plural 'Giliath: [cf. 'Dagor-nuin- Giliath. See also Etymologies, entry 'Gil' in 'The Lost Road'] > So Ernil I Giliath = Prince of the Stars. Yes, but as I say, you've mixed sing. with pl. there. Not a particularly heinous offense however -- no Sinda will aim his longbow at you, I think. :) > Ps I asked Elbereth about it and she's cool! Any relation? ;) Cheers! -- Maar aure! Kian ###### From: "Ernil I Giliath" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Date: Tue, 28 Sep 1999 21:07:07 +0100 Message-ID: <938549271.21302.0.nnrp-03.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <37EA1A03.EAD47C0E@mediaone.net> <7sjnn4$qeh$1@news.duke.edu> <37EFBFB6.F3D18302@mediaone.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: qualitop.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: qualitop.demon.co.uk:212.228.154.17 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 938549271 nnrp-03:21302 NO-IDENT qualitop.demon.co.uk:212.228.154.17 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Lines: 39 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!qualitop.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail It is Ernil I Giliath, as Osgiliath means Citadel of the stars, and Gil means star. Ernil i Pherinnath means Phince of the halflings, and so I figure that Ernil I means prince ..... the and Giliath means of the Stars. So Ernil I Giliath = Prince of the Stars. Ps I asked Elbereth about it and she's cool! -- Cian wrote in message news:37EFBFB6.F3D18302@mediaone.net... > > Matt Atwood wrote: > > > ... saying "Ernil i(n) Giliath" seems like you're encroaching a bit on > > Varda's > > territory. It sounds a bit like calling yourself Ar-Adunakhor (or > > Tar-Herunumen), and we all know what happened to the last person who tried > > that (or, rather, to his descendants). > > > > -Matt > > Yes, kinda exalted sounding. Elbereth may want a word or two with this > 'princely' Sinda. > ;) > > 'Ernil i Ngiliath' is also a possible Sindarin form I think. > -- > Maar aure! > Kian > ###### From: "Alatar" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 07:52:28 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 9 Message-ID: <7sse96$bj6$4@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <37EA1A03.EAD47C0E@mediaone.net> <7sjnn4$qeh$1@news.duke.edu> <37EFBFB6.F3D18302@mediaone.net> <938549271.21302.0.nnrp-03.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <37F13ADC.4DAFD3E4@mediaone.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-105.androderm.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news5.svr.pol.co.uk 938589286 11878 62.136.52.105 (29 Sep 1999 07:14:46 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Sep 1999 07:14:46 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Nevermind all that! I guessed it first, where's my prize? -- Alatar ###### Message-ID: <37F20C4B.595B6EDA@mediaone.net> From: Cian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-MOENE (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I'm changing my name today. References: <937946078.7399.0.nnrp-04.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <7sah65$evb$1@zeus.polsl.gliwice.pl> <37EA1A03.EAD47C0E@mediaone.net> <7sjnn4$qeh$1@news.duke.edu> <37EFBFB6.F3D18302@mediaone.net> <938549271.21302.0.nnrp-03.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <37F13ADC.4DAFD3E4@mediaone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 26 Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:55:39 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.99.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net 938609889 24.128.99.214 (Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:58:09 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Sep 1999 08:58:09 EDT Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!netnews.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.60.9!ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Cian wrote: > A few posters (and I) have just been trying to point out that Sindarin employs > plural articles before plural nouns. This phrase is misleading in its generalization, so I'll correct myself while Alatar collects the prize :) Generalization is bad sometimes. I should've specifically referred only to the topic at hand (the Sindarin article 'the') *as the S. article in general is a more complicated issue of course*. example: 'Conin en Annûn' means 'Princes of the West' ! [LOTR: 'The Field of Cormallen'] And oh yeah, another S. 'prince word'> Singular -'cunn' Maar aure! Kian > In Sindarin, 'i P*h*eriannath' is an example of 'nasal mutation' -- initial > 'P' to 'PH'. In other words, 'i Pheriannath' = '*in* Periannath'. (note the > loss of the -h- in the second example) > I also proposed the more archaic looking 'Ernil i Ngiliath' as a possible form > based on 'Dagor- nui- Ngiliath'. [ which = 'Dagor nuin Giliath' - 'Battle > under the Stars'] > Plural 'in' is attested for the collective plural 'Giliath: [cf. 'Dagor-nuin- > Giliath. See also Etymologies, entry 'Gil' in 'The Lost Road']