[ side thread of an long and not interesting one]

######

From: "Conrad Dunkerson" <conrad.dunkerson@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien
Subject: Re: anachronism?  (I'm new)
Date: Mon, 6 Sep 1999 19:17:20 -0400
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Öjevind Lång <ojevind.lang@swipnet.se> wrote in message
news:7STA3.4567$K33.8664@nntpserver.swip.net...

>   I know that some people regard Tolkien as so holy that
> no criticism of his writings, no matter how respectfully
> couched, is permissible. It is an attitude which I can't
> share.

Hey, I think JRRT made mistakes too ('Moria' on the Doors
of Durin)... I just don't think that golf, chess, tobacco
and potatoes being in the story is a 'mistake' or that the
use of modern terms in explaining things is necessarily a
'weakness'.  These things passed right by me the first time
I read the story, and when noted on later analysis there
were ready explanations - thus they did not seem jarring to
me at all.

######

From: "Öjevind Lång" <ojevind.lang@swipnet.se>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien
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Subject: Re: anachronism?  (I'm new)
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Conrad Dunkerson hath written:

>
>Hey, I think JRRT made mistakes too ('Moria' on the Doors
>of Durin)... <snip>

Anoher anachronism is the observation that the name Orthanc had two
meanings: "Mount Fang" in "the Elvish speech" (no particulars as to which)
and "the Cunning Mind" in "the language of the Mark of old". If I am not
mistaken, Tolkien refers to the meaning of the name in the Anglo-Saxon (Old
English) of our world, and unless one chooses to believe that the genuine,
untranslated language of the Rohirrim had exactly the same words för
"cunning" and "mind", this is a first-class blunder.

Öjevind

######

Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien
From: Michael@xenite.org (Michael Martinez)
Subject: Re: anachronism?  (I'm new)
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In article <oQPC3.1684$dH.2577@nntpserver.swip.net>, "Öjevind Lång" <ojevind.lang@swipnet.se> wrote:
>Conrad Dunkerson hath written:
>
>>
>>Hey, I think JRRT made mistakes too ('Moria' on the Doors
>>of Durin)... <snip>

That is not necessarily a mistake.

>Anoher anachronism is the observation that the name Orthanc had two
>meanings: "Mount Fang" in "the Elvish speech" (no particulars as to which)
>and "the Cunning Mind" in "the language of the Mark of old". If I am not
>mistaken, Tolkien refers to the meaning of the name in the Anglo-Saxon (Old
>English) of our world, and unless one chooses to believe that the genuine,
>untranslated language of the Rohirrim had exactly the same words för
>"cunning" and "mind", this is a first-class blunder.

Or a linguistic joke.  Tolkien was fond of them.  In either case it would 
indeed be a legitimate anachronism.



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######

From: "Conrad Dunkerson" <conrad.dunkerson@worldnet.att.net>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien
Subject: Re: anachronism?  (I'm new)
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 22:18:36 -0400
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Michael Martinez <Michael@xenite.org> wrote in message
news:7rgtk1$dk_018@Org.xenite.org...

> Conrad Dunkerson hath written:
>> Hey, I think JRRT made mistakes too ('Moria' on the
>> Doors of Durin)... <snip>

> That is not necessarily a mistake.

How could it not be?  The name 'Moria' did not even EXIST
yet when the doors were created.  Khazad-dum came to be
called Moria after the coming of the Balrog.  It does not
seem to be a 'translation' issue as the text is written in
untranslated / untransliterated Sindarin.  Finally, even if
it WERE chronologically possible for that name to apply to
the place, it seems EXTREMELY unlikely that the Dwarves
would choose to refer to their home as "the Black Pit".