From: "Evilos" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: In response to Eärendil's Eagle Theory Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:29:18 -0000 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <7oqcf7$1b4o$2@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> References: <7ons8p$1oeu$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37AF94AA.81552535@ma.ultranet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209-130-200-43.nas-2.mon.frontiernet.net X-Trace: node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net 934327591 44184 209.130.200.43 (10 Aug 1999 23:26:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@frontiernet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Aug 1999 23:26:31 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newspeer1.nac.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!nntp.gctr.net!news.frontiernet.net!not-for-mail I think that the reason the Eagles didn't fly Frodo and friends to Mordor was probably the Nazgul, because nobody likes aerial battles with evil wraiths of darkness. Plus, the eagles aren't known for courage. They wouldn't even carry Gandalf near a village of men. But, if you want a different theory, At Rivendell, Bilbo explained to Gandalf all about his book that he'd thrown so much time into, and how much he wanted Frodo to be in it. And so, they both agreed it'd make a much better story to just send Frodo off on a doomed quest. That way, it'd be an exciting tale worth hearing if he got back, and if he died, then Bilbo could just think up a good story. (which he'd have to do anyway if Frodo had gone with the eagles, because it'd be the boring book on everyone's shelf if it was all about the hour-long trip to Mordor on the back of an Eagle.) Frodo of course, never discovered any of this, and believing that he was the hardened savior of the world helped his self-image. (he was moody already.) -Evilos ###### From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?E=E4rendil?= the Mariner Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: In response to =?iso-8859-1?Q?E=E4rendil=27s?= Eagle Theory Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1999 23:31:02 -0400 Organization: Havens of the River Sirion Lines: 28 Message-ID: <37B0EE6C.66F60E26@ma.ultranet.com> References: <7ons8p$1oeu$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37AF94AA.81552535@ma.ultranet.com> <7oqcf7$1b4o$2@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> Reply-To: sauron.darklord@bigfoot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: S+BrjyTNuT5IR9LZ4mfjT7KJ/ERTlShECdTI0/EP/eI= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Aug 1999 03:27:31 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail sounds reasonable to me... Evilos wrote: > I think that the reason the Eagles didn't fly Frodo and friends to Mordor > was probably the Nazgul, because nobody likes aerial battles with evil > wraiths of darkness. Plus, the eagles aren't known for courage. They > wouldn't even carry Gandalf near a village of men. > But, if you want a different theory, > At Rivendell, Bilbo explained to Gandalf all about his book that he'd thrown > so much time into, and how much he wanted Frodo to be in it. > And so, they both agreed it'd make a much better story to just send Frodo > off on a doomed quest. That way, it'd be an exciting tale worth hearing if > he got back, and if he died, then Bilbo could just think up a good story. > (which he'd have to do anyway if Frodo had gone with the eagles, because > it'd be the boring book on everyone's shelf if it was all about the > hour-long trip to Mordor on the back of an Eagle.) Frodo > of course, never discovered any of this, and believing that he was the > hardened savior of the world helped his self-image. (he was moody already.) > > -Evilos -- ------------- "Of all of J.R.R. Tolkien's gifts, perhaps the greatest was his ability to write books after he died." ###### Message-ID: <37B111D2.AADFF7BF@wizard.net> From: "James Kuyper Jr." Organization: Not Enough X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.0.36 i686) X-Accept-Language: en-US,en-GB,de,es,ru MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: In response to =?iso-8859-1?Q?E=E4rendil=27s?= Eagle Theory References: <7ons8p$1oeu$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37AF94AA.81552535@ma.ultranet.com> <7oqcf7$1b4o$2@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37B0EE6C.66F60E26@ma.ultranet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 12 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.161.15.43 X-Trace: typ12.nn.bcandid.com 934351055 206.161.15.43 (Wed, 11 Aug 1999 01:57:35 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 01:57:35 EDT Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 02:01:54 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!hub1.ispnews.com!gate.bcandid.com!typ12.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Eärendil the Mariner wrote: > > sounds reasonable to me... > > Evilos wrote: ... > > wraiths of darkness. Plus, the eagles aren't known for courage. They So soon they forget; it was only a few (dozen?) millennia ago that the Eagles fought side by side with Earendil in Vingilot against the winged dragons in the War of Wrath. Yet now they stand accused of cowardice, and you don't defend them? ###### From: "Evilos" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: In response to Eärendil's Eagle Theory Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 11:50:19 -0000 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Lines: 6 Message-ID: <7os5ui$1hp6$2@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> References: <7ons8p$1oeu$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37AF94AA.81552535@ma.ultranet.com> <7oqcf7$1b4o$2@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37B0EE6C.66F60E26@ma.ultranet.com> <37B111D2.AADFF7BF@wizard.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209-130-201-68.nas-2.mon.frontiernet.net X-Trace: node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net 934386450 50982 209.130.201.68 (11 Aug 1999 15:47:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@frontiernet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Aug 1999 15:47:30 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newspeer1.nac.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!nntp.gctr.net!news.frontiernet.net!not-for-mail They were different Eagles. Plus, they didn't have Manwë to support them in the courage department anymore. Eagles can't fly out of the world to speak to Manwë. So, they had to do with what they had, and thats not all that much. Oh well. Better than the ents. ###### From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?E=E4rendil?= the Mariner Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: In response to =?iso-8859-1?Q?E=E4rendil=27s?= Eagle Theory Date: Wed, 11 Aug 1999 22:42:35 -0400 Organization: Havens of the River Sirion Lines: 14 Message-ID: <37B2348A.F590D69C@ma.ultranet.com> References: <7ons8p$1oeu$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37AF94AA.81552535@ma.ultranet.com> <7oqcf7$1b4o$2@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37B0EE6C.66F60E26@ma.ultranet.com> <37B111D2.AADFF7BF@wizard.net> <7os5ui$1hp6$2@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> Reply-To: sauron.darklord@bigfoot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: GsSTdzLy10YWhzok8boL6QhMOjJYynD0X92u/hsq70o= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Aug 1999 02:39:03 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Hey! There's nothing wrong with ents! Once they got roused, there was no stopping them. They just weren't "hasty" enough to get roused. Anyway, think about it, if you were a tree, whose purpose in life was to tend other trees, would you go marching off to just any fight? -Earendil Evilos wrote: > They were different Eagles. Plus, they didn't have Manwë to support them in > the courage department anymore. Eagles can't fly out of the world to speak > to Manwë. So, they had to do with what they had, and thats not all that > much. Oh well. Better than the ents. ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: In response to Eärendil's Eagle Theory From: ross_presser@NOSPAMimtek.com.invalid (Ross Presser) References: <7ons8p$1oeu$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37AF94AA.81552535@ma.ultranet.com> <7oqcf7$1b4o$2@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37B0EE6C.66F60E26@ma.ultranet.com> <37B111D2.AADFF7BF@wizard.net> <7os5ui$1hp6$2@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37B2348A.F590D69C@ma.ultranet.com> Organization: Imtek, Inc. Message-ID: <8E2062AFApt101594@news.bellatlantic.net> User-Agent: Xnews/2.07.14 Lines: 11 Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:18:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 151.204.202.13 X-Trace: typhoon2.gnilink.net 934467509 151.204.202.13 (Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:18:29 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:18:29 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.ispnews.com!gate.bCandid.com!cyclone2.gnilink.net!typhoon2.gnilink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail alt.distinguished.sauron.darklord@bigfoot.com (Eärendil the Mariner).wrote.posted.offered: >Hey! There's nothing wrong with ents! Once they got roused, there was no >stopping them. They just weren't "hasty" enough to get roused. Anyway, >think about it, if you were a tree, whose purpose in life was to tend >other trees, would you go marching off to just any fight? > No, if I were a tree whose purpose in life was to tend other trees, I'd kill myself from boredom. :) If I could figure out how, that is. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: In response to Eärendil's Eagle Theory Date: 12 Aug 1999 20:46:13 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 19 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6uoggc25xm.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <7ons8p$1oeu$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37AF94AA.81552535@ma.ultranet.com> <7oqcf7$1b4o$2@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37B0EE6C.66F60E26@ma.ultranet.com> <37B111D2.AADFF7BF@wizard.net> <7os5ui$1hp6$2@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37B2348A.F590D69C@ma.ultranet.com> <8E2062AFApt101594@news.bellatlantic.net> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 ross_presser@NOSPAMimtek.com.invalid (Ross Presser) writes: > > alt.distinguished.sauron.darklord@bigfoot.com (Eärendil the > Mariner).wrote.posted.offered: > > >think about it, if you were a tree, whose purpose in life was to tend > >other trees, would you go marching off to just any fight? > > > > No, if I were a tree whose purpose in life was to tend other trees, I'd > kill myself from boredom. :) If I could figure out how, that is. That is easy: get in the way of an Orc with an axe. -- Neil Franklin, Nerd, Geek, Unix Wizzard and Guru, Hacker, Mystic neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Computer: toy that speeds work, so you have more time to play with it ###### From: "Evilos" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: In response to Eärendil's Eagle Theory Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 13:28:46 -0000 Organization: Frontier GlobalCenter Inc. Lines: 6 Message-ID: <7p1kf0$i4k$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> References: <7ons8p$1oeu$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37AF94AA.81552535@ma.ultranet.com> <7oqcf7$1b4o$2@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37B0EE6C.66F60E26@ma.ultranet.com> <37B111D2.AADFF7BF@wizard.net> <7os5ui$1hp6$2@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37B2348A.F590D69C@ma.ultranet.com> <8E2062AFApt101594@news.bellatlantic.net> <6uoggc25xm.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209-130-151-254.nas-3.mon.frontiernet.net X-Trace: node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net 934565152 18580 209.130.151.254 (13 Aug 1999 17:25:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@frontiernet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Aug 1999 17:25:52 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.new-york.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!nntp.gctr.net!news.frontiernet.net!not-for-mail If I was a talking tree, I'd go off into the world and make a fortune working at childrens' birthday parties. I'm sure I'd see my share of excitement then. -Evilos ###### From: kern@ac.grin.edu (Chris Kern) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: In response to Eärendil's Eagle Theory Message-ID: <37b719b0.16832891@news.usenetserver.com> References: <7ons8p$1oeu$1@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> <37AF94AA.81552535@ma.ultranet.com> <7oqcf7$1b4o$2@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 12 Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 19:49:59 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 149.162.144.90 X-Complaints-To: admin@usenetserver.com X-Trace: IRIS 934757289 149.162.144.90 (Sun, 15 Aug 1999 15:48:09 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 15 Aug 1999 15:48:09 PDT Organization: UseNet Server, Inc. http://www.usenetserver.com - Home of the fastest NNTP servers on the Net. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.fast.net!uunet!ffx.uu.net!news-in.usenetserver.com!news.usenetserver.com!IRIS.POSTED!not-for-mail On Tue, 10 Aug 1999 19:29:18 -0000, "Evilos" wrote: >I think that the reason the Eagles didn't fly Frodo and friends to Mordor >was probably the Nazgul, Eagles were Maia. The Istari were Maia. The Valar reduced the power of the Istari so that the people of Middle-Earth could deal with the problems themselves. Conjecturally, the eagles were not "allowed" to fly the ring to Mount Doom. -Chris