From: erobert483@aol.com (ERobert483) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Why did Sauron live in Mirkwood? Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 03 Aug 1999 14:01:50 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19990803100150.25906.00000550@ng-cg1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail (my second question) I guess I'm not familiar when the Necromancer setup shop in Southern Mirkwood, as I bet that would answer that question. I'd like to think it was right after he regained some strength after getting his ring taken from him, and after hearing where the king might have lost it. The forest being a good buffer for his dark magics. It just seems so close to civilization, but perhaps not so if you consider where the bulk of his enemies are(west of Mordor). Any info on this is appreciated, Eric ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien From: sbjensen@midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) Subject: Re: Why did Sauron live in Mirkwood? X-Nntp-Posting-Host: harper.uchicago.edu Message-ID: Sender: news@midway.uchicago.edu (News Administrator) Organization: The University of Chicago X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) References: <19990803100150.25906.00000550@ng-cg1.aol.com> Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:28:02 GMT Lines: 31 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!uchinews2!uchinews!not-for-mail Quoth erobert483@aol.com (ERobert483): > I guess I'm not familiar when the Necromancer setup shop in Southern > Mirkwood, as I bet that would answer that question. A very interesting question. I suspect that your suggestion is very near the truth: that he occupied Dol Guldur > ...after hearing where the king might have lost [the Ring]. Unfortunately, I don't have my books here to check the timing that you're asking about. However, I know that there was a substantial delay between Sauron's loss of the Ring and his rise as the Necromancer; plenty of time for him to hear of the ambush of Isildur from those of his servants who survived the encounter (and the belated rescue attempt by the woodsmen). Keep in mind that Saruman eventually learned that Sauron was searching the Gladden Fields (and only then did he agree to drive him from Dol Guldur), so at the very least his location was fortuitous. > It just seems so close to civilization, but perhaps not so if you > consider where the bulk of his enemies are(west of Mordor). Considering the fact that they were watching Mordor like hawks for a long time, it seems likely that it at least was unavailable to him. A base in Mirkwood would be a good way to keep an eye on the enemy, better than someplace far to the East, at least. But I'm still most fond of your initial suggestion: he wanted to be near where he thought the Ring might have been. Steuard Jensen ###### From: "db" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Why did Sauron live in Mirkwood? Date: Tue, 3 Aug 1999 17:33:26 +0200 Organization: A2000 Kabeltelevisie en Telecommunicatie Lines: 27 Message-ID: <7o71tg$svg$1@weber.a2000.nl> References: <19990803100150.25906.00000550@ng-cg1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: node11aae.a2000.nl X-Trace: weber.a2000.nl 933694192 29680 24.132.26.174 (3 Aug 1999 15:29:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@a2000.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Aug 1999 15:29:52 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!pascal.a2000.nl!not-for-mail ERobert483 wrote in message <19990803100150.25906.00000550@ng-cg1.aol.com>... >I'd like to think it was right after he regained some strength after getting >his ring taken from him, and after hearing where the king might have lost it. The King? You mean Isildur? That was not found out until much later, and in fact it may well be that Sauron never exactly did come to know what happened to the One. All he had to go on was the "interview" Gollum gave him, and Gollum managed to lie, distort and hide many important facts. Saruman knew a lot, but it's unlikely that he would tell Sauron anything. >The forest being a good buffer for his dark magics. It just seems so close to >civilization, but perhaps not so if you consider where the bulk of his enemies >are(west of Mordor). I think the forest was big enough for him to hide and lay low. He must not have been very strong, and perhaps needed isolation more than anything else. But that is pure speculation on my part. db ###### From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?E=E4rendil?= the Mariner Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Why did Sauron live in Mirkwood? Date: Tue, 03 Aug 1999 23:00:57 -0400 Organization: Havens of the River Sirion Lines: 20 Message-ID: <37A7ACE5.2B15FD58@ma.ultranet.com> References: <19990803100150.25906.00000550@ng-cg1.aol.com> Reply-To: sauron.darklord@bigfoot.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: 4VFS2npmoMp4kta3/8Zm1+xc5iOAILjXh2SxFu3JRpI= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Aug 1999 02:57:44 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!howland.erols.net!outgoing.news.rcn.net.MISMATCH!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail > > I guess I'm not familiar when the Necromancer setup shop in Southern Mirkwood, > as I bet that would answer that question. Sauron came to Mirkwood about TA 1050. Remember, after Mordor fell at the end of the Second Age, it was taken over by the Men of Gondor. The Towers of the Teeth and Minas Morgul (formerly Minas Ithil), were Gondorian structures. RotK(ballantine) p. 365 - "The might of Hyarmendacil [king of Gondor at that time] no enemy dared to contest during the remainder of his long reign...In his day, Gondor reached the summit of its power. The realm extended north to Celebrant and *the southern eaves of Mirkwood*..." Meanwhile, Arnor was divided in three. Arthedain, the only surviving kingdom, was in the area of the Brandywine and Lune, and the others extended through Eriador and to the Misty Mountains. Greenwood the Great was the one place out of the Dominion of the Kingdoms of Men, hence a perfect place for Sauron to return to. -Earendil ###### From: gordonlew@aol.com (GordonLew) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Why did Sauron live in Mirkwood? Lines: 2 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 04 Aug 1999 03:35:49 GMT References: <37A7ACE5.2B15FD58@ma.ultranet.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19990803233549.13138.00007315@ng-bh1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail I heard that the reason Sauron lived in Mirkwood was the low taxes. Feanole ###### From: "Arkady" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <37A7ACE5.2B15FD58@ma.ultranet.com> <19990803233549.13138.00007315@ng-bh1.aol.com> Subject: Re: Why did Sauron live in Mirkwood? Lines: 9 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 11:12:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.126.150.166 X-Complaints-To: abuse@freeuk.net X-Trace: nnrp4.clara.net 933765168 212.126.150.166 (Wed, 04 Aug 1999 12:12:48 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 04 Aug 1999 12:12:48 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!nnrp4.clara.net.POSTED!not-for-mail GordonLew wrote in message news:19990803233549.13138.00007315@ng-bh1.aol.com... > I heard that the reason Sauron lived in Mirkwood was the low taxes. > Feanole *LOL*