From: "Paul Huging" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: TOLKIEN WRITING RUNES ETC Lines: 13 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.88.244.205 Message-ID: <3796bb79@news.rivernet.com.au> Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:32:47 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.88.225.10 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 932626094 203.88.225.10 (Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:48:14 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:48:14 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newscore.ipf.de!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!intermedia!newspeer.monmouth.com!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!news.rivernet.com.au!203.88.244.205 Hello all, Im wondering if anyone knows a good resource for finding out the runes or writing in LOTR mean and are. I want to use some for a design, possibly a tattoo depending on what I can find. So if anyone can help me that would be great. And it has to have translation as well random runes or writing is no good to me. Cheers all, Paul ###### From: Matthias Koch-Schirrmeister Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: TOLKIEN WRITING RUNES ETC Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 00:45:14 +0200 Organization: Customer of UUNET Deutschland GmbH, Dortmund, Germany Lines: 29 Message-ID: <37979EFA.A32D74D6@telltalehard.de> References: <3796bb79@news.rivernet.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 149.225.36.126 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jul 1999 22:47:40 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@de.uu.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-CCK-MCD {TelDa.Net} (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!iol.ie!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!do.de.uu.net!nr-f.de.uu.net!not-for-mail Hi, the runes that JRRT used are basically german/northern runes as can be found in the Futhark. JRRT´s translation into latin letters, however, differs widely from the Futhark. On the other hand, Futhark is only one systems, there might have been others that JRRT in his capacity of a linguist might have known. JRRT´s translation of the runes can be found in the appendix to LOTR. The other (elfish) writing has to my knowledge no historical background, they are JRRT´s creation. There seem to be similarities to arab writing because of the non-use of vowels. Am I right, or does anybody have further information? Matthias http://www.telltalehard.de Paul Huging wrote: > Hello all, > > Im wondering if anyone knows a good resource for finding out the runes or > writing in LOTR mean and are. I want to use some for a design, possibly a > tattoo depending on what I can find. So if anyone can help me that would be > great. And it has to have translation as well random runes or writing is no > good to me. > > Cheers all, > > Paul ###### From: "freeserve news" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: TOLKIEN WRITING RUNES ETC Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 02:41:21 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 9 Message-ID: <7n8i9o$vpv$2@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <3796bb79@news.rivernet.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-18.name69.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 932695160 32575 62.136.194.18 (23 Jul 1999 01:59:20 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jul 1999 01:59:20 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail I would buy 'The Languages of Tolkien's Middle-earth' by Ruth S. Noel. It's a good book in itself and will probably point you in the right direction concerning runes in general. The publisher is Houghton Mifflin Company ISBN: 0-395-29130-5 Jez. ###### From: fangorn@lo1.chelm.ids.pl (Fangorn) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: TOLKIEN WRITING RUNES ETC Reply-To: fangorn@c64.org Message-ID: <37973394.1231051@news.tpnet.pl> References: <3796bb79@news.rivernet.com.au> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 13 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 06:30:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.160.32.101 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tpsa.pl X-Trace: news.tpnet.pl 932711450 212.160.32.101 (Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:30:50 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 08:30:50 MET DST Organization: TPNET - http://www.tpnet.pl Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newshub.bart.net!colt.net!news0.de.colt.net!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.man.poznan.pl!news.icm.edu.pl!orion.cst.tpsa.pl!news.tpnet.pl!not-for-mail On Thu, 22 Jul 1999 16:32:47 +1000, "Paul Huging" wrote: >Im wondering if anyone knows a good resource for finding out the runes or >writing in LOTR mean and are. I want to use some for a design, possibly a >tattoo depending on what I can find. So if anyone can help me that would be >great. And it has to have translation as well random runes or writing is no >good to me. Dunno if it suits you, but check: http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/4948/index.html This is Dan Smith's page with his fonts, plus some related links. Check them out and enjoy! ###### From: urban@netcom.com (Michael Urban) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: TOLKIEN WRITING RUNES ETC Date: 23 Jul 1999 14:53:01 GMT Organization: NETCOM / MindSpring Enterprises, Inc. Lines: 13 Message-ID: <7n9vkd$o2i@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com> References: <3796bb79@news.rivernet.com.au> <7n8i9o$vpv$2@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: netcom11.netcom.com X-NETCOM-Date: Fri Jul 23 9:53:01 AM CDT 1999 NNTP-Posting-User: urban Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!ix.netcom.com!urban In article <7n8i9o$vpv$2@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, freeserve news wrote: >I would buy 'The Languages of Tolkien's Middle-earth' by Ruth S. Noel. It's >a good book in itself and will probably point you in the right direction >concerning runes in general. Many people interested in Tolkien's linguistic invention would disagree that it is a good book in itself; it contains enough inaccuracies and important omissions that it will probably point the reader in the wrong direction concerning almost everything. Runes are pretty straightforward, though; I don't think that even Noel's book messed this up. ###### From: Home and habitat of goblin and ork lords Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: TOLKIEN WRITING RUNES ETC Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 02:59:58 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't. Lines: 34 Message-ID: <7ndujd$4ba$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <3796bb79@news.rivernet.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.193.25.64 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sun Jul 25 02:59:58 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en]C-SBIS-NC404 (Win95; U) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x34.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.193.25.64 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDannerchion Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!iol.ie!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail In article <3796bb79@news.rivernet.com.au>, "Paul Huging" wrote: > Hello all, > > Im wondering if anyone knows a good resource for finding out the runes or > writing in LOTR mean and are. I want to use some for a design, possibly a > tattoo depending on what I can find. So if anyone can help me that would be > great. And it has to have translation as well random runes or writing is no > good to me. > > Cheers all, > > Paul > Ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm try appendix E of LOTR. As for translations: try something along the lines of Robert Foster's COMPLETE GUIDE TO MIDDLE EARTH for suitable hints. A better source would be Ruth Noel's THE LANGUAGES OF TOLKIEN"S MIDDLE EARTH for english to elvish translations and vice versa, it also has the added benefit of grammer structure, since this seems to be your request. Vagabond -- All I ask for is a tall ship, and a rock to wreck it upon. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't. ###### From: Matthias Koch-Schirrmeister Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: TOLKIEN WRITING RUNES ETC Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 06:15:46 +0200 Organization: Customer of UUNET Deutschland GmbH, Dortmund, Germany Lines: 32 Message-ID: <379BE0F2.A1BFE794@telltalehard.de> References: <3796bb79@news.rivernet.com.au> <37979EFA.A32D74D6@telltalehard.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: 149.225.39.201 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Jul 1999 04:17:02 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@de.uu.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-CCK-MCD {TelDa.Net} (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsfeed.tli.de!do.de.uu.net!nr-f.de.uu.net!not-for-mail Matthias Koch-Schirrmeister wrote: > > The other (elfish) writing has to my knowledge no historical background, they > are JRRT´s creation. There seem to be similarities to arab writing because of > the non-use of vowels. > Not quite right: the vowels are, like in arab writing, indicated by things like `|´above the text. > > > Matthias > http://www.telltalehard.de > > Paul Huging wrote: > > > Hello all, > > > > Im wondering if anyone knows a good resource for finding out the runes or > > writing in LOTR mean and are. I want to use some for a design, possibly a > > tattoo depending on what I can find. So if anyone can help me that would be > > great. And it has to have translation as well random runes or writing is no > > good to me. > > > > Cheers all, > > > > Paul ###### From: harper_blue@compuserve.com Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: TOLKIEN WRITING RUNES ETC Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1999 16:18:02 GMT Organization: CompuServe Interactive Services Lines: 24 Message-ID: <37a9ce71.49576518@news.compuserve.com> References: <3796bb79@news.rivernet.com.au> <7n8i9o$vpv$2@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> <7n9vkd$o2i@dfw-ixnews12.ix.netcom.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: atl-tgn-ydg-vty15.as.wcom.net X-Trace: ssauraac-i-1.production.compuserve.com 933956377 5602 216.192.180.15 (6 Aug 1999 16:19:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@compuserve.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Aug 1999 16:19:37 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!news.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!not-for-mail On 23 Jul 1999 14:53:01 GMT, urban@netcom.com (Michael Urban) wrote: >In article <7n8i9o$vpv$2@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, >freeserve news wrote: >Many people interested in Tolkien's linguistic invention would >disagree that it is a good book in itself; it contains enough >inaccuracies and important omissions that it will probably point >the reader in the wrong direction concerning almost everything. > >Runes are pretty straightforward, though; I don't >think that even Noel's book messed this up. My own belief is that Tolkien's appendix in "The Return of the King" is very good as a reference if read carefully. If you're gonna use JRRT's system, go to the font.... Greetings to the group after a long absence. Bruce -- Harper Blue Proprietor of the Beatles' favorite coffeehouse -- Latte' Be "Those who don't believe the dead shall rise again don't drink coffee."