From: Ron Barber Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Carpenter's Tolkien Bio Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 14:20:32 -0400 Organization: Chronological Lines: 35 Message-ID: <378A31F0.511AE184@prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ptb2b103-30.splitrock.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: newssvr03-int.news.prodigy.com 931803667 2896631 209.254.20.78 (12 Jul 1999 18:21:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Jul 1999 18:21:07 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (Win98; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newscon02!prodigy.com!not-for-mail Here are my remarks after a first reading of the biography. During Tolkien's early years I felt that Carpenter was reaching to find inspirations for some of the elements that later appeared in Tolkien's writings. I must confess, however, that I myself would have asked "did JRRT ever have a run-in with spiders?" and things of that sort. I was struck by how beautiful Edith truly was. I suppose I expected the wives of professors to have buck-teeth and wear tweed dresses with elbow patches and sensible brown shoes. She was a real looker. Something in me was disappointed to find that his married life was not more idyllic, and in fact in general it was sad, for lack of a better word, to find that he was really no more perfect a man than any of us, and maybe better at procrastinating than a lot of us. I was very impressed to hear that C.S. Lewis wept when Tolkien read him the passage about the Ringbearers being honored on the Field of Cormallen. To this day it has a similar effect on me. I was particularly interested in Tolkien's observation that he "was" a hobbit, or felt the closest kinship with them. It really put to rest my prior theory that Tolkien was Tom Bombadil in the story. Similarly, his likening his romance with Edith to Beren and Luthien pretty much killed my theory that she was Goldberry. I was not overly impressed with Carpenter's writing skills. I had a sense that this was a perfunctory job and maybe even a little hurried, although granted many of those he could have interviewed to add depth to the portrait died before Tolkien himself did. Are there any other biographies out there to give me a contrasting view? Someone has already mentioned Carpenter's "The Inklings". Anything else? RB ###### From: "Marc A. Moniz" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Carpenter's Tolkien Bio Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 15:39:39 -0400 Organization: I-2000 Inc., Internet Services Lines: 31 Message-ID: <7mdggr$gjp$1@news2.i-2000.com> References: <378A31F0.511AE184@prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dyn14.access3.nyc.i-2000.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!uunet!chi.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!newsfeed.i-2000.net!news2.i-2000.com!not-for-mail Ron Barber wrote in message <378A31F0.511AE184@prodigy.net>... [snip] >Are there any other biographies out there to give me a contrasting >view? Someone has already mentioned Carpenter's "The Inklings". >Anything else? > >RB There are several, including (not a complete list): (1) _The Biography of J.R.R. Tolkien: Architect of Middle-earth_ by Daniel Grotta . (2) _Myth Maker: J.R.R. Tolkien_ by Anne Neimak & Brad Weinman (3) _J. R. R. Tolkien_ by Charles Mosley (4) _ J. R. R. Tolkien: Master of Fantasy by David Collins & William Heagy (5) _Tolkien: Man and Myth_ by Joseph Pearce try a book searching tool such as at http://www.bottomdollar.com or http://www.bookfinder.com/ you should find them all here, along with other interesting analytical material about Tolkien. ###### From: "Edward W. Beattie" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Carpenter's Tolkien Bio Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 10:38:05 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Message-ID: <7mf1iv$a30$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <378A31F0.511AE184@prodigy.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.136.206.4 X-Trace: news5.svr.pol.co.uk 931858847 10336 62.136.206.4 (13 Jul 1999 09:40:47 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Jul 1999 09:40:47 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Lines: 65 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Several interesting points raised here. I'm not sure what Edith looked like in full, since we only have head and shoulders pictures in the book. (The UK edition). Nonetheless, she was brought up in an era when women's fashions were really feminine, so it was easier for them to look nice. (Compare Edith's picture with those of Churchill's mother and wife). Secondly, Carpenter does mention that Tolkien was bitten by a poisonous spider when he was an infant in S. Africa. He said in one of his letters that he had no conscious dislike of spiders, and would even help one out of the bath. Nonetheless, I think something remained at a deeper level. Additionally, Carpenter does mention the incident where Tolkien was kidnapped: I'm sure this relates to the incident in LOTR where Pippin and Merry are carried off by the orcs. (Even down to the orcs' boots - what in S. Africa are known as gum boots). (In case anyone brings up this Tolkien-was-a-racist nonsense in connection with this, his objection was not that he objected to being kidnapped by black people, but that he objected to being kidnapped at all - reasonably enough). As far as Tolkien's identity is concerned, i.e. was he Tom Bombadil or a hobbit, he supplies the information himself in the Letters. He explained that Bombadil was a pure pacifist, that unlike both the Fellowship and Sauron, he had no wish to exercise power or control over anyone, whether for good or evil purposes. Now part of Tolkien wanted to be a pacifist, but he knew that pacifism dodges the issue of what to do in a fallen world. He did say, in another letter, "I am in fact, a hobbit". In part, this was true; he liked good, plain, simple food, smoking and beer, (and coloured waistcoats). Since they are AFAIK no photos of Tolkien in bare feet, we do not know if he resembled them in any other way ;-). However, in another way, he was most un-hobbit-like. He made the hobbits small to illustrate the smallness of their imaginations, a quality I think inspired by the soldiers he commanded in WWI. (Cf. Merry and Pippin smoking in the ruins of Isengard). Now one thing that couldn't be said of Tolkien is that he had small powers of imagination. My own view is that part of him rather wishes that he had, since the ordinary Tommies seemed to cope with the horrors of trench warfare rather better than he did. In terms of the overall quality of the book, it does have its limitations; it was Carpenter's first book since becoming a full-time writer. Nonetheless, it *is* the authorised biography, so Carpenter had access to people and papers not available to other biographers. In terms of a biography of Toluene's intellectual life, I would recommend Shippey's "Road to Middle-Earth". Shippey is a philologist, and in fact held the Chair at Leeds that Tolkien held 1920-1925, so he can understand the thought processes that went into the books much better than Carpenter can. Another "sort-of" biography is Tolkiens "Letters" (edited by Carpenter and Christopher T.) which gives a lot of biographical insight. Nonetheless, Carpenter's biography is well worth reading for any Tolkien fan. regards Edward W. Beattie