From: Luis Garrido Newsgroups: comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.misc Subject: Old 386 integration: the Challenge Date: Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:06:28 +0100 Organization: Unisource Espana NEWS SERVER Lines: 14 Message-ID: <34E07B04.616B@junk.mail.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: abonado-195-53-34-161.cat.es Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news-ge.switch.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news.rediris.es!newsfeed.mad.ibernet.es!news.bcn.ibernet.es!not-for-mail I have some 386/25MHz/4MB RAM/40MB HD. Use of some DOS based applications (Promax 6502 simulator, E.Workbench and this OS itself) are required for teaching purposes. Is there any posibility to integrate them into a Linux network??? a)By installing linux in them (tried, but unsatisfactory performance, X starts but damn slooooooooow -you move the mouse, wait some seconds and tehn the pointer in the screen moves too-, DOSEMU slow and unstable). Any ideas to improve performance and stability? b)By providing some DOS clients (maybe Telnet and a X-client). In this case, which TCP/IP and clients (free or shareware) would you recommend? ###### Message-ID: <34E29EEA.2F92@tconl.com> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:04:10 -0600 From: Drew Matalus Reply-To: matalus.---@tconl.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Old 386 integration: the Challenge References: <34E07B04.616B@junk.mail.gov> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.26.80.120 X-Trace: 12 Feb 1998 01:03:51 +600, 204.26.80.120 Lines: 19 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed1.uswest.net!news1.uswest.net!204.26.80.120 We've had great luck using our old 386's (most with only 2MB RAM) as DOS workstations (Telnet and POPMAIL only). We added 3C509B cards (come with a DOS Packet Driver) and use CUTCP developed by Clarkson University some years back We got the whole set of tools and utils from simtel.com I think. Let me know if you need more information. -Drew +-------------------------+--------------------------------------+ | Andrew Matalus | Real Programmers don't use comments! | | amatalus@workplace.com | If it was hard for me to write, it | | Workplace Technologies | _SHOULD_BE_ hard for you to read! | +-------------------------+--------------------------------------+ | Note: Remove the ".---" from any email replies | +----------------------------------------------------------------+ ###### From: jhickle@pgh.nauticom.net (JIM HICKLE) Subject: Re: Old 386 integration: the Challenge Newsgroups: comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.misc Followup-To: comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.misc References: <34E07B04.616B@junk.mail.gov> X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] NNTP-Posting-Host: pgh.nauticom.net Message-ID: <34e1bb9d.0@pgh.nauticom.net> Date: 11 Feb 98 14:54:21 GMT Lines: 15 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news.vt.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!198.190.226.3!pgh.nauticom.net!pgh.nauticom.net!jhickle Luis Garrido (no@junk.mail.gov) wrote: : I have some 386/25MHz/4MB RAM/40MB HD. : a)By installing linux in them (tried, but unsatisfactory performance, X : starts but damn slooooooooow -you move the mouse, wait some seconds and : tehn the pointer in the screen moves too-, DOSEMU slow and unstable). : Any ideas to improve performance and stability? X will perform normally (although it will still take long tome for big programs like netscape to star) if you have 16 MB RAM. You should also get a bigger disk; need 32 meg swap partition. -jim ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch Newsgroups: comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Old 386 integration: the Challenge Date: 12 Feb 1998 00:00:14 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 41 Message-ID: <1zx921dt.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Luis Garrido asked us: >I have some 386/25MHz/4MB RAM/40MB HD. >Is there any posibility to integrate them into a Linux network??? >a)By installing linux in them (tried, but unsatisfactory performance, X >starts but damn slooooooooow -you move the mouse, wait some seconds and >tehn the pointer in the screen moves too-, DOSEMU slow and unstable). >Any ideas to improve performance and stability? I have Linux (2.0.27, Debian 1.2) on my 386-16 (this one is pre 386DX-16), 8MB RAM, 400MB HD, Tseng 4000 video. It runs with X at 1152x864x256colour, with XTerm, Emacs, Netscape, Apache, WU-FTP on it. It is the 4MB RAM that is making your X too slow. You really need 8MB to get X to be usable. Also your 40MB HD seem a bit too little to put a full Linux with X onto (X alone is 15MB on my machines). I managed full Linux on a 85MB HD without problems. >b)By providing some DOS clients (maybe Telnet and a X-client). In this >case, which TCP/IP and clients (free or shareware) would you recommend? You may also consider putting a reduced size Linux on them that only works as telnet or X terminals (that is X server and window manager, but no applications). For that your 4MB RAM and 40 MB HD will be enough. A colleague of mine does this with 8 of them and 2 Pentiums as the back, one Linux, the other NT+Winframe. He likes the low cost and low maintenance hassle, his users like the speed, power, crashfreeness. Actually I would recommend this strategy, make them into X terminals. -- Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch, http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ for Geek Code, Papernet, Voicenet, PGP public key see http: Mac, 95 and NT users are CLUEless (Command Line User Environment) If I go missing, its once again my newsfeed that has craped ###### From: Luis Garrido Newsgroups: comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Old 386 integration: the Challenge Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 20:59:54 +0100 Organization: Unisource Espana NEWS SERVER Lines: 28 Message-ID: <34E2033A.5754@junk.mail.gov> References: <1zx921dt.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: abonado-195-53-42-17.cat.es Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.uoregon.edu!news.rediris.es!newsfeed.mad.ibernet.es!news.bcn.ibernet.es!not-for-mail Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch wrote: > > It is the 4MB RAM that is making your X too slow. You really need 8MB > to get X to be usable. > Also your 40MB HD seem a bit too little to put a full Linux with X > onto (X alone is 15MB on my machines). I managed full Linux on a 85MB HD > without problems. Yes. I would rely on one Pentium file server holding applications > You may also consider putting a reduced size Linux on them that only > works as telnet or X terminals (that is X server and window manager, > but no applications). For that your 4MB RAM and 40 MB HD will be enough. > > A colleague of mine does this with 8 of them and 2 Pentiums as the > back, one Linux, the other NT+Winframe. He likes the low cost and low > maintenance hassle, his users like the speed, power, crashfreeness. > > Actually I would recommend this strategy, make them into X terminals. Would it be enough with just 4Meg? :-o May I talk to that smart colleague or yours? I'm really interested, please. We are a public academic institution and don't have the budget to improve significatively our hardware, but our 386 have network cards and it would be great if we could recycle them. I'll become a faithful Linux believer if I can do this. ###### From: Thorbjoern Ravn Andersen Newsgroups: comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Old 386 integration: the Challenge Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 16:54:36 +0100 Organization: The Maersk Mc-Kinney Moller Institute for Production Tec Lines: 30 Message-ID: <34E31B3C.446B@imada.ou.dk> References: <34E07B04.616B@junk.mail.gov> NNTP-Posting-Host: jyderup.mip.ou.dk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (X11; I; IRIX 6.3 IP32) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news.vt.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!uninett.no!news.net.uni-c.dk!news.uni-c.dk!not-for-mail Luis Garrido wrote: > > I have some 386/25MHz/4MB RAM/40MB HD. > > Use of some DOS based applications (Promax 6502 simulator, E.Workbench > and this OS itself) are required for teaching purposes. > > Is there any posibility to integrate them into a Linux network??? Yes. I have had good experiences with using the TCP/IP module of the MS-KERMIT program (which I normally use with a serial line, but as well on LAN) with a Packet Driver for my netcard installed. You should read the networking documentation carefully, before issuing a "telnet host" command. MS-kermit: http://www.columbia.edu/kermit/mskermit.html Packet Driver: ftp://ftp.crynwr.com/drivers (or on the driver disk with the card) If MS-Kermit is too slow for your computers (happened for me on a 8086) then consider NCSA telnet instead. Both have merits, but I use MS-Kermit for the very good vt100 emulation. -- Thorbjørn Ravn Andersen "...and...Tubular Bells!" http://www.mip.ou.dk/~ravn/ <> ###### Mail-from: From POPmail Mon Feb 16 19:59:35 1998 Received: by server.dolphins.ch for neilf (with Cubic Circle's cucipop (v1.21 1997/08/10) Mon Feb 16 19:57:20 1998) X-From_: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ccw.ch Sat Feb 14 03:29:12 1998 Received: from ccw.ccw.ch (ccw.ch [193.192.233.36]) by server.dolphins.ch (8.8.7/8.8.8) with ESMTP id DAA20871 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 03:29:12 +0100 Received: from chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch (113ot.dolphins.ch [193.192.233.113]) by ccw.ccw.ch (8.7.6/8.7.3 last mod 97.05.02 by neilf@dolphins.ch) with ESMTP id DAA21522 for ; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 03:24:24 +0100 Received: (from root@localhost) by chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch (8.7.6/8.7.3 last mod 97.07.31 by Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch) id WAA00474; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:43:47 +0100 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 1998 22:43:47 +0100 Message-Id: <199802132143.WAA00474@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> From: Neil Franklin To: lgv@abonados.cplus.es Subject: Re: Old 386 integration: the Challenge Cc: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch --and-- Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch Newsgroups: comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.misc Subject: Re: Old 386 integration: the Challenge Date: 14 Feb 1998 02:47:38 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 42 Message-ID: References: <1zx921dt.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> <34E2033A.5754@junk.mail.gov> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch wrote: >> Also your 40MB HD seem a bit too little to put a full Linux Luis Garrido wrote: > Yes. I would rely on one Pentium file server holding applications Good. Use the 386es as X terminals and a Pentium as application server (not just file server, as the applications are not just stored as files on it but also run on it). >> Actually I would recommend this strategy, make them into X terminals. > Would it be enough with just 4Meg? :-o Yes. My 386-16 with 8MB is still usable with Kernal+X+WM+XTerm+Emacs+Netscape+Apache (and this was X at full 1152x864x8bit with XTerms of 80x60 char). So an 386-25 with 4MB should have no problems with only Kernal+X+WM. >> A colleague of mine does this with 8 of them and 2 Pentiums >> You may also consider putting a reduced size Linux > May I talk to that smart colleague or yours? Address sent in private mail. > We are a public academic institution So am I. I work at the architecture department of the Swiss Federal Institute of Technology. > I'll become a faithful Linux believer if I can do this. You are wellcome in the circle. -- private: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch, http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ for Geek Code, Papernet, Voicenet, PGP public key see http: office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch Mac, 95 and NT users are CLUEless (Command Line User Environment) If I go missing, its once again my newsfeed that has craped