From: forrest@west.net (Forrest Cameranesi) Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.programming.contests,comp.software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.aix Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:21:21 -0800 Organization: Obsidian Software Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: term1-20.vta.west.net X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.3.5 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!peerfeed.ncal.verio.net!vncnews!HSNX.wco.com!news.west.net!forrest In article <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net>, arc@flash.net wrote: [snip MS CyberCrap] Yech! Is THIS what Outlook Express does? That's worse than CyberDog in Rich Text mode. At least CD ususlly put a plain text version in too, but this is just... tags everywhere... MS Word is the text generator... what the hell kinda crap is this? Give me MT-Newswatcher anyday. -- -Forrest Cameranesi forrest[at]west[dot]net Obsius / Static Dreams, Inc. - Writer, Designer... Chief Dreamer "I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam." ###### From: The Vicarage Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.programming.contests,comp.software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.aix Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:57:24 GMT Organization: ArgoNet, but does not reflect its views Lines: 36 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> Reply-To: The Vicarage NNTP-Posting-Host: al049.du.pipex.com X-Newsreader: NewsAgent 0.84 for RISC OS Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!argonet.co.uk!argbj05 In article , forrest@west.net (Forrest Cameranesi) wrote: > > In article <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net>, arc@flash.net wrote: > > [snip MS CyberCrap] > > Yech! Is THIS what Outlook Express does? That's worse than CyberDog in > Rich Text mode. At least CD ususlly put a plain text version in too, but > this is just... tags everywhere... MS Word is the text generator... what > the hell kinda crap is this? Give me MT-Newswatcher anyday. > > Spaming is not welcome! Please can no one respond to this thread so it dies away quickly saving us all overly large Phone bills! One must ensure that that we as a group of people do not clutter up the world with rubbish and silly "spam". This is called British sense and intelligence ;-) Regards, PS: Anyone watched 2001, Longest Day, A Bridge too far? I recomed them all! -- _____ |_ _|__ _ __ ___ Email Tom at: nemesis@argonet.co.uk | |/ _ \| '_ ` _ \ Using a Acorn RISC workstation with a | | (_) | | | | | | 287MHz ARM CPU, its all British too... |_|\___/|_| |_| |_| Happy Christmas to you all... For sale, as new will split! Any decent offer accepted: SX33 486 PCcard,!PCPro ,!PCExcahnge ###### From: "D. Scott Secor" Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.programming.contests,comp.software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.aix References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca> Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:08:42 -0600 Lines: 36 Organization: Bon Bahn Communications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: tdialup137.mn.uswest.net Message-ID: <34bea99f.0@news3.uswest.net> Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news.igateway.net!news.pagesat.net!decwrl!newsspool.doit.wisc.edu!night.primate.wisc.edu!sdd.hp.com!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!howland.erols.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed1.uswest.net!news3.uswest.net!tdialup137.mn.uswest.net Whoa, I am using Outlook Express (the news & mail reader component of IE4) and I do believe that all will be able to read this message without any difficulty. Try turning off rich text (HTML) and use Western text, then set line lengths to 70-75 characters. I took some of the same flak, since the defaults are not what OTHERS -- you know who you are -- may like to see. On the other hand, I am truly surprised by those lurking on the Jetsonesque Internet who dislike HTML enhancements to email. Do you avoid HTML web pages as well? If you enjoy living in the past, might I suggest trying a couple of orange juice cans and a string. Ciao, Scott "downsize government, ignore Y2K" Secor Daniel Bruce Lynes wrote in message <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca>... >On Sun, 11 Jan 1998 02:21:21 -0800, forrest@west.net (Forrest >Cameranesi) wrote: > > >Yech! Is THIS what Outlook Express does? That's worse than CyberDog >in > >this is just... tags everywhere... MS Word is the text generator... >what > >Outlook Express is the piece of garbage doing that? Really irritating >for those of us that don't want HTML enhanced news, or for those that >are running a console mode news application. ###### From: "D. Scott Secor" Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.programming.contests,comp.software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.aix References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca> <34bea99f.0@news3.uswest.net> <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net> Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:18:02 -0600 Lines: 72 Organization: Bon Bahn Communications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: tdialup27.mn.uswest.net Message-ID: <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net> Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed1.uswest.net!news3.uswest.net!tdialup27.mn.uswest.net Scott C. Zimmerman wrote in message <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net>... >D. Scott Secor wrote: >> > >> >> On the other hand, I am truly surprised by those lurking on the >> Jetsonesque Internet who dislike HTML enhancements to email. Do you >> avoid HTML web pages as well? > >What purpose does HTML serve in email? Apparently nothing more than irritating those of your ilk. I, on the other hand, enjoy a little flash and artistic license. Plain text is downright BORING to read (or write for that matter). > I don't need to be linked to >another part of the message, I don't need boldface or otherwise >"enhanced" text and I am quite capable of typing an address if I want to >visit a site referenced in the message; HTML is merely excess baggage. So was the printing press, radio, and television, by your definition. >Cross-platform email should be plain text to ensure maximum readability >across a wide range of clients. HTML has its place, but some of us >realize that there is more to the Internet than the Web. You sound like >a Wintel bigot - and a newbie - so I wouldn't expect you to understand. You got it, pal. A Wintel "bigot" who dislikes both MacroShaft and Intel -- and a newbie for nearly TWENTY YEARS in the industry. For those few dinosaurs who insist upon using ASCII terminals and the like, might I suggest that they join forces with the "trendiness" of GUI until the "fad" passes. Need I add fuel to the fire by suggesting that it is precisely THAT manner of close-minded thinking that has resulted in most Y2K issues which threaten the future of global commerce. I suppose that the Suns on which I have worked were simply too "sophisticated" that they are unable to utilize HTML code as employed by the ubiquitous Wintel and Apple systems (that persist in employing such obviously detrimental means of text and graphical enhancement). I can assume, sir, that you are a UNIX bigot. Let's see how well YOU like the title. Do you enjoy being a member of a shrinking minority? I receive a host of HTML messages from a variety of business associates. I truly appreciate the enhancements, which you so dispise, to convey a professional image. >> If you enjoy living in the past, might I suggest trying a couple of >> orange juice cans and a string. > >Perhaps one day you'll see the bigger picture and gain some respect for >pure functionality, interoperability and open communication. I understand that the stone slabs and chisels are also effective communications tools, yet I have managed to shun their use and joined the vast majority who enjoy enriched modern technologies. Ciao, Scott "puttin' on my asbestos underwear" Secor ###### From: Wouter van Wageningen Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.programming.contests,comp.software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.aix Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:32:11 -0800 Organization: WvWsoft Lines: 11 Message-ID: <34BFDFEB.50F5F297@earthlink.net> References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca> <34bea99f.0@news3.uswest.net> <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net> <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: blv-pm100-ip1.halcyon.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.nodak.edu!news.sendit.nodak.edu!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.229.87.25!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-backup-east.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!206.63.63.70!nwnews.wa.com!brokaw.wa.com!not-for-mail D. Scott Secor wrote: > Plain text is downright BORING to read (or write for that matter). So I guess the only thing you read are comics. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Wouter van Wageningen | http://www.euronet.nl/users/rovabu/wvw | | Freelance NetWare Programmer| http://home.earthlink.net/~wvw | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ | Remove the '-' to reply through email | ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ###### From: jason@pbase.my.domain (Jason S.) Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.programming.contests,comp.software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.aix Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: 16 Jan 1998 22:19:59 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca> <34bea99f.0@news3.uswest.net> <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net> <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip210.buffalo2.ny.pub-ip.psi.net X-Newsreader: slrn (0.9.3.2 UNIX) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.wildstar.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.internetmci.com!207.69.200.121!news.mindspring.com!jason In article , John H Klapp wrote: >> Apparently nothing more than irritating those of your ilk. I, on the >> other hand, enjoy a little flash and artistic license. Plain text is >> downright BORING to read (or write for that matter). >Mabey if there were content ... >> those few dinosaurs who insist upon using ASCII terminals and the >> like, might I suggest that they join forces with the "trendiness" of >> GUI until the "fad" passes. >I'm 19; I guess I'm a young dinosaur. I still haven't figured out how to >read faster than a 2400 baud modem can spit out text. The Microsoft suggested solution is to upgrade your hardware. Bill Gates and Microsoft cannot be held responsible for the inconvenience of those Philistines and Luddites who are too irresponsible to purchase new hardware every year. ;) ###### From: John Duffey Newsgroups: comp.programming,software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.admin Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 00:14:48 +0000 (GMT) Organization: None really Lines: 82 Message-ID: <4809964728jduffey@enterprise.net> References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca> <34bea99f.0@news3.uswest.net> <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net> <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net> Reply-To: John Duffey NNTP-Posting-Host: max01-015.enterprise.net X-Newsreader: Pluto 1.03g for RISC OS 3.7 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.onenet.net!news.oru.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!diablo.theplanet.net!btnet-feed2!btnet!news.enterprise.net!enterprise.net!jduffey In article <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net>, D. Scott Secor wrote: > >What purpose does HTML serve in email? > Apparently nothing more than irritating those of your ilk. I, on the > other hand, enjoy a little flash and artistic license. Plain text is > downright BORING to read (or write for that matter). Well, to be fair, this just shows your limited writing skills. If you make a little bit of effort to spice up your language, add a little bit of panache to your work, it makes for a far more pleasant write, and a positively splendid read. I find that I use far more of my vocabulary when writing "flames", it is most delightful. Even in real life, I'll switch from my normal colloquial Peterborian tones to a Queens English, formal, 'proper' timbre. It seems to have the effect of disheartening your opponent. > > [very valid point about HTML attachments] > So was the printing press, radio, and television, by your definition. Where do you get this idea from? Surely you do not get "boring" television programmes, shortly followed by exactly the same thing read to you by a presenter with a tartan t-shirt? The printing press I believe, virtually eliminated the practise of illustrative decoration on pages, such as you see on many hand-copied religious texts. My King James Bible, *printed* in 1993, has no illustrations, whereas my Mothers family (very old) hand copied Bible has beautifully designed drop-caps, lovely borders, etc. Of course, I use the 1993 *printed* one for references, purely for it's ease and function, being very nearly small enough to be hand-held, as opposed to a foot-long leather-bound affair. > You got it, pal. A Wintel "bigot" who dislikes both MacroShaft and > Intel -- and a newbie for nearly TWENTY YEARS in the industry. For > those few dinosaurs who insist upon using ASCII terminals and the > like, might I suggest that they join forces with the "trendiness" of > GUI until the "fad" passes. Hmm, this bicycle gets me there quite well, it keeps me fit, I enjoy riding it, I'm not causing any kind of pollution. Oh wait, this new fad for driving cars has come along. Must start driving places. Oh dear. I've put on 3 stone because I'm not getting as much exercise. It takes me twice as long to get there, because everybody else is using their car too. I hate traffic jams. Oh, look at all those NOxs flying about of the back of my car. Oh, look at the CO2 it's giving off. Look at all the uncombusted hydrocarbons! Still, cars are *pretty* They *must* be better than my *PERFECTLY FUNCTIONING PLEASANT TO USE HEALTHY BICYCLE*. > I understand that the stone slabs and chisels are also effective > communications tools, yet I have managed to shun their use and joined > the vast majority who enjoy enriched modern technologies. Yes, and they've also lasted for thousands of years. They've not been pumped by their megaton into the ground like paper has. Comparing the *standard* method of communicating over EMAIL to a dead technique is stupid, ill-thought and plainly silly. If every email in the world had your silly HTML attachment then the amount of information flying over the net would more than double. I very much doubt that the already stressed email backbones could stand that. It would require thousands of pounds of upgrades, which would have to be subsidised by me, Mr. Zimmerman, everybody, just so you can have your messages come up in red. Please feel free to see the lunacy of anything you have previously said. John. -- _ _ | | ___ | |__ _ __ _ | |/ _ \| '_ \| '_ \ jduffey@enterprise.net | |_| | (_) | | | | | | | http://homepages.enterprise.net/jduffey \___/ \___/|_| |_|_| |_| (Yawn, dah!, mmmm, woo, mmmm, d'oh!, mmmm, zzzz) ###### From: Kieran L. Brown Newsgroups: comp.programming,software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.admin Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:36:29 +0000 Organization: norg! Technologies Approved: Automatically with Messenger! Message-ID: References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca> <34bea99f.0@news3.uswest.net> <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net> <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net> <4809964728jduffey@enterprise.net> Reply-To: kbrown@norg.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: norg.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: norg.demon.co.uk [158.152.13.70] X-Newsreader: Messenger v1.02 for RISC OS X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59d X-NNTP-Poster: NewsHound v1.21 Lines: 25 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!norg.demon.co.uk!kbrown In message <4809964728jduffey@enterprise.net> John Duffey wrote: > In article <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net>, D. Scott Secor > wrote: [snip something about HTML text in emails] > If every email in the world had your silly HTML attachment then the > amount of information flying over the net would more than double. I > very much doubt that the already stressed email backbones could stand > that. It would require thousands of pounds of upgrades, which would > have to be subsidised by me, Mr. Zimmerman, everybody, just so you can > have your messages come up in red. I'm beginning to think that MIME stands for Massive Increase in Megabytes Exchanged. Try subscribing to any newsgroups used mostly by PC users. It's 'orrible. -- Kieran L. Brown: Java, RISC OS, Unix, headaches a speciality. Be warned, people spamming me will not be popular. I have a list you know. I'll report you to your ISP. That's a promise. ....... Procrastination means never having to say you're sorry. ###### From: mark@leasion.demon.co.uk (Mark Evans) Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.programming.contests,comp.software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.aix Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Followup-To: comp.programming,comp.programming.contests,comp.software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.aix Date: 17 Jan 1998 04:27:40 GMT Message-ID: <69pbvs$ohu@leasion.demon.co.uk> References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca> <34bea99f.0@news3.uswest.net> <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: leasion.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: leasion.demon.co.uk [158.152.172.240] X-Newsreader: TIN [UNIX 1.3 950515BETA PL0] Lines: 13 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!news.eng.convex.com!newsgate.duke.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!leasion.demon.co.uk!leasion!leasion.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Scott C. Zimmerman (Xscott@earth.nexus.net) wrote: : D. Scott Secor wrote: : > : : > : > On the other hand, I am truly surprised by those lurking on the : > Jetsonesque Internet who dislike HTML enhancements to email. Do you : > avoid HTML web pages as well? : : What purpose does HTML serve in email? I don't need to be linked to The purpose of annoying people and making the poster look a complete fool. ###### From: David H Wild Newsgroups: comp.programming,software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.admin Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 12:19:13 +0000 (GMT) Organization: None Lines: 15 Message-ID: <4809d89990dhwild@argonet.co.uk> References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca> <34bea99f.0@news3.uswest.net> <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net> <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net> <4809964728jduffey@enterprise.net> Reply-To: David H Wild NNTP-Posting-Host: ak212.du.pipex.com X-Newsreader: Pluto 1.03f for RISC OS 3.7 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!bore.news.pipex.net!pipex!argonet.co.uk!argbq68 In article <4809964728jduffey@enterprise.net>, John Duffey wrote: > If every email in the world had your silly HTML attachment then the > amount of information flying over the net would more than double. I'm supporting you, John, but the problem is that the amount of *information* wouldn't increase at all, but the amount of *data* would. -- __ __ __ __ __ ___ _____________________________________________ |__||__)/ __/ \|\ ||_ | / | || \\__/\__/| \||__ | /...Internet access for all Acorn RISC machines ___________________________/ dhwild@argonet.co.uk Uploaded to newnews.dial.pipex.com on Sat,17 Jan 1998.18:11:58 ###### From: David Santorum Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.programming.contests,comp.software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.aix Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 13:10:01 +0000 Organization: dper Message-ID: <4e40dd948%daves@crespo.demon.co.uk> References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca> <34bea99f.0@news3.uswest.net> <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net> <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net> Reply-To: daves@crespo.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: crespo.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: crespo.demon.co.uk [194.222.166.74] X-Newsreader: Messenger v1.10 for RISC OS X-Posting-Agent: RISC OS Newsbase 0.59h Lines: 42 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!crespo.demon.co.uk!daves In message <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net> "D. Scott Secor" wrote: > Scott C. Zimmerman wrote in message <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net>... > [WHACK] > > > >What purpose does HTML serve in email? > > Apparently nothing more than irritating those of your ilk. I, on the > other hand, enjoy a little flash and artistic license. Plain text is > downright BORING to read (or write for that matter). It's also very quick, and can be converted to speech far better than a load of tags and images... It also means that people not using the same software don't generally and automatically delete your post without reading it. > > I don't need to be linked to > >another part of the message, I don't need boldface or otherwise > >"enhanced" text and I am quite capable of typing an address if I want to > >visit a site referenced in the message; HTML is merely excess baggage. > > So was the printing press, radio, and television, by your definition. > When one of those 0891/crap numbers comes on the TV screen or appears in a magazine, I have to pick up the telephone and dial a number - VERY tiresome. > >Cross-platform email should be plain text to ensure maximum readability > >across a wide range of clients. HTML has its place, but some of us > >realize that there is more to the Internet than the Web. You sound like > >a Wintel bigot - and a newbie - so I wouldn't expect you to understand. [WHACKED] > > Need I add fuel to the fire by suggesting that it is precisely THAT > manner of close-minded thinking that has resulted in most Y2K issues > which threaten the future of global commerce. What Y2K problem is that then? ;-) -- David Santorum daves@crespo.demon.co.uk Acorn Clan - 32bit RISC (HOME) computing since 1987 ###### From: John Duffey Newsgroups: comp.programming,software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.unix.admin Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:01:51 +0000 (GMT) Organization: None really Message-ID: <480a555a48jduffey@enterprise.net> References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca> <34bea99f.0@news3.uswest.net> <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net> <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net> <4809964728jduffey@enterprise.net> <4809d89990dhwild@argonet.co.uk> Reply-To: John Duffey NNTP-Posting-Host: max01-040.enterprise.net X-Newsreader: Pluto 1.03g for RISC OS 3.7 Lines: 22 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!diablo.theplanet.net!btnet-feed2!btnet!news.enterprise.net!enterprise.net!jduffey In article <4809d89990dhwild@argonet.co.uk>, David H Wild wrote: > In article <4809964728jduffey@enterprise.net>, John Duffey > wrote: > > If every email in the world had your silly HTML attachment then the > > amount of information flying over the net would more than double. > I'm supporting you, John, but the problem is that the amount of > *information* wouldn't increase at all, but the amount of *data* > would. A good point exceedingly well made. I stand corrected. John -- _ _ | | ___ | |__ _ __ _ | |/ _ \| '_ \| '_ \ jduffey@enterprise.net | |_| | (_) | | | | | | | http://homepages.enterprise.net/jduffey \___/ \___/|_| |_|_| |_| (Yawn, dah!, mmmm, woo, mmmm, d'oh!, mmmm, zzzz) ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.programming.contests,comp.software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.aix Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: 19 Jan 1998 00:03:28 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 96 Message-ID: <90sdz8ov.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca> <34bea99f.0@news3.uswest.net> <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net> <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 D. Scott Secor wrote: > On the other hand, I am truly surprised by those lurking on the > Jetsonesque Internet who dislike HTML enhancements to email. Do you > avoid HTML web pages as well? Naaa, I use HTML on my pages. But there again, only HTML 2.1 and GIF87, no "extensions" and certainly no frames (urgh). Scott C. Zimmerman wrote in message <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net>... >What purpose does HTML serve in email? D. Scott Secor fired back: >Apparently nothing more than irritating those of your ilk. I, on the >other hand, enjoy a little flash and artistic license. Plain text is >downright BORING to read (or write for that matter). Only useless (=content free) text is boring. Good text lives from the contents being interesting, from being usefull. If you feel a need to spruce up text with styling you should be asking about whether the text should not be deleted. People want to read it. There is just to much "mee too, I need to be seen" stuff floating around. Scott C. Zimmerman wrote in message <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net>... > I don't need to be linked to >another part of the message, I don't need boldface or otherwise >"enhanced" text and I am quite capable of typing an address if I want to >visit a site referenced in the message; HTML is merely excess baggage. Any decent Mail/News reader auto-detects URLs and colours them in. Mine (GNUS) will even auto-start Netscape when I right-click on them. Yes, that is in normal ASCII mails/posts. D. Scott Secor fired back: >So was the printing press, radio, and television, by your definition. Here you put something in his mouth, he did not say. Those media added options that didn't exist (communication over distance, = function). HTML in mails/posts only ads styling (= form). Thats not the same. Scott C. Zimmerman wrote in message <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net>... >Cross-platform email should be plain text to ensure maximum readability >across a wide range of clients. HTML has its place, but some of us >realize that there is more to the Internet than the Web. Don't forget that Mail/News is sent to readers unasked, while Web pages are fetched at the readers desire. They are a lot easier to avoid, just memorise bad URLs, or switch off image autoloading, or employ Junkbuster. D. Scott Secor fired back: >For those few dinosaurs who insist upon using ASCII terminals and the >like, might I suggest that they join forces with the "trendiness" of >GUI until the "fad" passes. Been there, done that, writing this on 21" 1600x1200x32bpp X-Server. D. Scott Secor fired back: >Need I add fuel to the fire by suggesting that it is precisely THAT >manner of close-minded thinking that has resulted in most Y2K issues >which threaten the future of global commerce. Y2K came from ignoring a real issue, that 99+1=100. Avoiding HTML has no such significance. Or are you still refering to your acusation of us still using ASCII terminals? D. Scott Secor fired back: >I can assume, sir, that you are a UNIX bigot. Let's see how well YOU >like the title. Do you enjoy being a member of a shrinking minority? The Forces Of Doom will not push their Nefarious Thing on us. The Light Of Reason (tm) will win. :-) D. Scott Secor fired back: >I receive a host of HTML messages from a variety of business >associates. I truly appreciate the enhancements, which you so >dispise, to convey a professional image. Professional(1): done in an efficient manner resulting from experience Professional(2): done in a grandious style to impress know-no-betters I think I prefer the first of these. Even if sales critters seem to regard the second as right these days. D. Scott Secor fired back: >Scott "puttin' on my asbestos underwear" Secor You better! Nice troll actually. And I'm just so bored! -- Neil.Franklin.remove.this@ccw.ch, http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ for Geek Code, Papernet, Voicenet, PGP public key see http: Mac, 95 and NT users are CLUEless (Command Line User Environment) If I go missing, its once again my newsfeed that has craped ###### From: "D. Scott Secor" Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.programming.contests,comp.software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.aix References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca> <34bea99f.0@news3.uswest.net> <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net> <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net> <90sdz8ov.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: Sun, 18 Jan 1998 23:57:55 -0600 Lines: 62 Organization: Bon Bahn Communications MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 NNTP-Posting-Host: tdialup160.mn.uswest.net Message-ID: <34c2ed95.0@news3.uswest.net> Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-feed4.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!newsfeed1.uswest.net!news3.uswest.net!tdialup160.mn.uswest.net I haven't done that much firing since I closed my Systems House back in 1985! Back to the flames into which I willingly walked. My argument was really directed to those who are satisfied with the status quo. I am never so satisfied! I communicate with many clients using electronic "stationary" that mimics my printed letterhead stationary. It conveys a professional image. I also embolden, italicize, change color or typefaces, indent, etc. just as I might had I composed a more conventional printed letter. This has the added benefit of giving the casual reader the option to skim the text for points of specific interest. (It also speaks rather nicely for my ancillary web development skills.) As it stands, I have to wade through hundreds of pieces email and Usenet bilge every day of the week. About half are composed using HTML. I welcome the notion of being able to better skim the content for its more salient points (through the use of obvious highlights). Someone made the suggestion of an E-mail Markup Language. That makes a great deal of sense to me. A rudimentary subset of HTML would probably suffice. I made this suggestion knowing full well that a HUGE number of email authors haven't the first clue about what may or may not be artistically acceptable. One needs look no further than half of the web sites on the entire Internet, for Pete's sake! Many are completely devoid of artistic balance, and often filled with misspellings, grammatical errors, broken links, etc. Nevertheless, I am willing to risk the results, since even a badly designed website can be reviewed quickly. The same holds true for the future of email. I would be willing to bet that if a parallel HTML (or "EMML") email system were developed, Usenet in its present form would follow Fidonet to a well deserved death. There is lots more to email than "colored in" URLs. I, for one, would like to see bold headlines, italics, and other enhancements. It would save me (and anyone similarly configured) an immense amount of time reading irrelevant or lackluster posts -- such as this one! The tools for composing enhanced email are readily available to everyone currently using Netscape Communicator and I.E.4, so why ignore them? Ciao, Scott "I don't print in single font black & white either" Secor >Mac, 95 and NT users are CLUEless (Command Line User Environment) Cool sig.! Except that it really does not fit me. I am often accused of spending entirely too much time in the Windows DOS box, since I seldom use "file mangler" or "explorer". I rather enjoy working from the command line (except on Unix systems where some pathnames rival "War & Peace"). ###### From: "Scott C. Zimmerman" Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.programming.contests,comp.software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.aix Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 06:51:46 -0500 Organization: .. Lines: 82 Message-ID: <34C33E52.72BF@earth.nexus.net> References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca> <34bea99f.0@news3.uswest.net> <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net> <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net> Reply-To: Xscott@earth.nexus.net NNTP-Posting-Host: szimmerm.sed.csc.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!199.0.154.56!ais.net!uunet!in4.uu.net!explorer.csc.com!usenet D. Scott Secor wrote: > >What purpose does HTML serve in email? > > Apparently nothing more than irritating those of your ilk. I, on the > other hand, enjoy a little flash and artistic license. Plain text is > downright BORING to read (or write for that matter). Only if you lack imagination or you've nothing interesting to convey; you probably don't read many books, either, since they are not "enhanced" to your liking. > > I don't need to be linked to another part of the message, I don't need boldface or otherwise >"enhanced" text and I am quite capable of typing an address if I want to > >visit a site referenced in the message; HTML is merely excess baggage. > > So was the printing press, radio, and television, by your definition. ??? > >Cross-platform email should be plain text to ensure maximum readability > >across a wide range of clients. HTML has its place, but some of us > >realize that there is more to the Internet than the Web. You sound > >like a Wintel bigot - and a newbie - so I wouldn't expect you to > >understand. > > You got it, pal. A Wintel "bigot" who dislikes both MacroShaft and > Intel -- and a newbie for nearly TWENTY YEARS in the industry. For > those few dinosaurs who insist upon using ASCII terminals and the > like, might I suggest that they join forces with the "trendiness" of > GUI until the "fad" passes. If you had actually been involved in this business even ten years (and observed anything) you would not make such a statement as "those few dinosaurs"... > Need I add fuel to the fire by suggesting that it is precisely THAT > manner of close-minded thinking that has resulted in most Y2K issues > which threaten the future of global commerce. The fact that you're comparing HTML in messages with the root of the Y2K problem suggests you need to do some research on one or both issues. > I suppose that the Suns on which I have worked were simply too > "sophisticated" that they are unable to utilize HTML code as employed > by the ubiquitous Wintel and Apple systems (that persist in employing > such obviously detrimental means of text and graphical enhancement). > > I can assume, sir, that you are a UNIX bigot. Let's see how well YOU > like the title. Do you enjoy being a member of a shrinking minority? You may assume nothing. My home network currently contains Linux, 95, and NT 4.0 Server; right now I'm tinkering with NT 5.0 Server (Beta 1) which will be added to the mix when hardware permits. I also work on two web servers running Solaris 2.5.1, and I used Xenix and SunOS 4.1.3 for a number of years in a previous position. I like what I use and I use what I like. > I receive a host of HTML messages from a variety of business > associates. I truly appreciate the enhancements, which you so > dispise, to convey a professional image. Companies and individuals that do not understand that images and HTML do not belong in messages sent via the Network are generally uninformed and deserve neither my business nor a second look. However, HTML messages are relatively harmless in an intranet environment (unnecessary bulk notwithstanding). > >> If you enjoy living in the past, might I suggest trying a couple of > >> orange juice cans and a string. > > > >Perhaps one day you'll see the bigger picture and gain some respect for > >pure functionality, interoperability and open communication. > > I understand that the stone slabs and chisels are also effective > communications tools, yet I have managed to shun their use and joined > the vast majority who enjoy enriched modern technologies. This last statement is as content-free as the HTML you espouse, Mr. Secor. Scott scott(a)earth.nexus.net ###### From: Chris Saunderson Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.programming.contests,comp.software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.aix Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: 19 Jan 1998 22:19:35 +1030 Organization: Maptek Pty Ltd - Adelaide Lines: 82 Message-ID: <4usoqkheeo.fsf@schroedinger.adelaide.maptek.com.au> References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca> <34bea99f.0@news3.uswest.net> <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net> <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net> <90sdz8ov.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> <34c2ed95.0@news3.uswest.net> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 NNTP-Posting-Host: gateway.maptek.com.au Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!qual.net!iagnet.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!innfeed.telstra.net!news.telstra.net!sa.news.telstra.net!news.camtech.net.au!young.adelaide.maptek.com.au!not-for-mail "D. Scott Secor" writes: > Someone made the suggestion of an E-mail Markup Language. That makes > a great deal of sense to me. A rudimentary subset of HTML would > probably suffice. That's what we need. ANother 'standard' that isn't. > web sites on the entire Internet, for Pete's sake! Many are > completely devoid of artistic balance, and often filled with > misspellings, grammatical errors, broken links, etc. Nevertheless, I > am willing to risk the results, since even a badly designed website > can be reviewed quickly. *yawn* > The same holds true for the future of email. I would be willing to > bet that if a parallel HTML (or "EMML") email system were developed, > Usenet in its present form would follow Fidonet to a well deserved > death. Bullshit. People like you have been predicting the "death of USENET" "Death of the Internet" "Death of FIDONet" for years now. IT"S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. FidoNet is still out there, USENET still will be in 10 years. > like to see bold headlines, italics, and other enhancements. It would > save me (and anyone similarly configured) an immense amount of time > reading irrelevant or lackluster posts -- such as this one! *aywn* Whatever. > The tools for composing enhanced email are readily available to > everyone currently using Netscape Communicator and I.E.4, so why > ignore them? Because not everyone is a sheep. Consider myself. I'm a professional sysadmin. I'm a jaded individual who, yes, is still at work at 10pm, long after the last programmer has gone home. I want TOOLS that are EASY to use (I said EASY, not braindead), that don't hog resources (my machines have better things to do than run multiple instances of bloated graphical software), I want configurability, I want customisation, I want an integrated environment for ALL of my work practices. Netscape/IE4 do NOT offer me these things, and I will fight tooth and nail against those who try to tell me that they do. If you want to use them, fine. But I'm sure as hell not going to. And that's not the "Stoneage mentality" you'll undoubtedly ascribe this response to - my tools work perfectly for me and make my life better. > >Mac, 95 and NT users are CLUEless (Command Line User Environment) > > > Cool sig.! Except that it really does not fit me. I am often accused > of spending entirely too much time in the Windows DOS box, since I > seldom use "file mangler" or "explorer". I rather enjoy working from > the command line (except on Unix systems where some pathnames rival > "War & Peace"). Then that demonstrations your ignorance of a properly configured Unix system. I mean, consider the following: C:\Program Files\Microsoft Office\Office\WINWORD.EXE as opposed to: /usr/local/bin/emacs I prefer the latter cuz it makes sense. The former sucks big wonky. -- Chris "Saundo" Saunderson Chris.Saunderson@adelaide.maptek.com.au Technical Support Engineer Telephone: (08) 8379 7333 Maptek Pty Ltd Fax: (08) 8379 7377 Powered by Linux, Jolt and the Orb. ###### From: Ian Scott Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.programming.contests,comp.software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.aix Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 14:27:51 +0000 (GMT) Organization: Sounds Riscy http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/iscott/soundsriscy/ Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca> <34bea99f.0@news3.uswest.net> <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net> <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net> <90sdz8ov.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> <34c2ed95.0@news3.uswest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: man-080.dialup.zetnet.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.26] Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!feed1.news.erols.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!Cabal.CESspool!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!zetnet.co.uk!ian.scott In article <34c2ed95.0@news3.uswest.net>, D. Scott Secor wrote: [snip] > The tools for composing enhanced email are readily available to > everyone currently using Netscape Communicator and I.E.4, so why > ignore them? Because they will then only be truly readable by everyone using Netscape Communicator and I.E.4. I know people that telnet to their e-mail server, how do you expect these people to read their e-mail when its full of s*** thats been put their by web-browsers. Sorry, but whenever I see a email/usenet post with this crap added, I just delete it. Ian Scott. -- _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ / \ http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/ ( S | o | u | n | d | s ) ( R | i | s | c | y ) iscott/soundsriscy/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ \_/ To reply remove the "m" from com.uk ###### From: Barry Wickett Newsgroups: comp.programming,comp.programming.contests,comp.software.year-2000,comp.sys.acorn.misc,comp.sys.intel,comp.sys.mac.advocacy,comp.sys.psion.misc,comp.unix.admin,comp.unix.aix Subject: Re: Online Job Fair w/ chance to WIN a FREE Trip Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 18:42:37 +0000 (GMT) Organization: TECHNIQUEST, Cardiff Bay Message-ID: References: <34B85250.831B30CE@flash.net> <34be85d3.11028568@news.bc.rogers.wave.ca> <34bea99f.0@news3.uswest.net> <34BF45CA.17E2@earth.nexus.net> <34bfa666.0@news3.uswest.net> <90sdz8ov.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> <34c2ed95.0@news3.uswest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: tquest.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tquest.demon.co.uk [158.152.23.109] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII X-Newsreader: ANT RISCOS Marcel [ver 1.26] Lines: 30 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!news-xfer.atlantic.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!bullseye.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tquest.demon.co.uk!Barry In article , Ian Scott wrote: > In article <34c2ed95.0@news3.uswest.net>, D. Scott Secor > wrote: > > [snip] > > > The tools for composing enhanced email are readily available to > > everyone currently using Netscape Communicator and I.E.4, so why > > ignore them? > > Because they will then only be truly readable by everyone using Netscape > Communicator and I.E.4. I know people that telnet to their e-mail server, > how do you expect these people to read their e-mail when its full of s*** > thats been put their by web-browsers. Sorry, but whenever I see a > email/usenet post with this crap added, I just delete it. > It also adds a lot of complexity to what is otherwise a simple form a communication from the users point of view. It's like having a conversation but dancing around to express oneself at the same time. Besides which emails will start looking just as dreadful as some of the web pages out there. Just informal, single-spaced text keeps it simple. -- Barry Wickett, Systems Co-ordinator TECHNIQUEST T +44 (0) 1222 475475 Cardiff CF1 6BW F +44 (0) 1222 482517