Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Small PLD choices From: Al Clark Organization: Danville Signal Processing, Inc. Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/06.02.16 Lines: 49 X-Complaints-To: abuse-news@frontiernet.net X-Trace: 52616e646f6d4956e54f571288573e5c992456399d133cc245834885a29fb98423d44a2ad82f63e6eebe09ee2e325c24962bb67568f160c9a988eadffc6c9e8740725b4194a1720115e096545c6655535c3d04b792f284977a25d48e1b18e16f056db5584b2abfffb9fc68763eb98c649fd5a81965a7f53c4e720bc63ef9d726 X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward ALL headers so that we may process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:55:49 GMT Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:55:49 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshosting.com!news-xfer2.atl.newshosting.com!news-feed01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!news02.roc.ny.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:35776 We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our designs. The features I like with these devices is as follows: 1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities 2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry. 3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching for alternatives. I looked at the Xilinx CoolRunner and CoolRunner 2 parts. Here were my impressions based from their web site. I would appreciate comments. CoolRunner: 1. Although they have these parts on their web site, they seem to be deemphasised. This suggested to me that maybe this line is on the way out. 2. I like the 3.3V supply with the 5V tolerance. 3. Power is lower than Altera, prices are higher. CoolRunner 2: 1. Xilinx wants to sell these parts. 2. They use 1.8V supplies which is just about the only supply I don't already need in my design. 3. They are not 5V tolerant which may or may not be important (but often is) 4. They cost more than Altera Max 3000 or CoolRunner. Are the tools as easy as Altera? What's a good In-Circuit-Programmer? Are there gotchas? What other players or parts should I consider? 1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and low cost. -- Al Clark Danville Signal Processing, Inc. -------------------------------------------------------------------- Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com ###### Lines: 70 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: mikeandmax@aol.com (Mikeandmax) Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Date: 19 Nov 2003 17:14:53 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Small PLD choices Message-ID: <20031119121453.28568.00000589@mb-m14.aol.com> Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:35782 Dan writes - > >We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our >designs. > >The features I like with these devices is as follows: > >1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities >2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry. >3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O > >The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching >for alternatives. > >I looked at the Xilinx CoolRunner and CoolRunner 2 parts. Here were my >impressions based from their web site. I would appreciate comments. > >CoolRunner: > >1. Although they have these parts on their web site, they seem to be >deemphasised. This suggested to me that maybe this line is on the way >out. > >2. I like the 3.3V supply with the 5V tolerance. > >3. Power is lower than Altera, prices are higher. > >CoolRunner 2: > >1. Xilinx wants to sell these parts. >2. They use 1.8V supplies which is just about the only supply I don't >already need in my design. >3. They are not 5V tolerant which may or may not be important (but often >is) >4. They cost more than Altera Max 3000 or CoolRunner. > >Are the tools as easy as Altera? What's a good In-Circuit-Programmer? >Are there gotchas? > >What other players or parts should I consider? > >1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and >low cost. > > >-- >Al Clark >Danville Signal Processing, Inc. >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff >Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com > you might want to also consider Lattice Mach4000 family - the 4KZ is the lowest power device family available anywhere presently - tools are free from the web, cost is "competitive" - I know, I had to say it tho! Schematic, ABEL, VHDL,VERILOG all in the free tool. Device is offered with 3.3v supply, 2.5v supply, or 1.8v supply. I/O is 5v tolerant with no external components required. Give your local Lattice rep or FAE a call - Michael Thomas LSC SFAE New York/New Jersey 631-874-4968 fax 631-874-4977 michael.thomas@latticesemi.com for the latest info on Lattice products - http://www.latticesemi.com LATTICE - BRINGING THE BEST TOGETHER ###### From: rickman Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Small PLD choices Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 12:36:16 -0500 Organization: Arius, Inc Lines: 66 Message-ID: <3FBBAA10.7C9D9A5E@yahoo.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVapa9wyg0Qk1pNml9tYMvv95VV6F/E7q7ULh49WJt3UCKuOxznyUll1 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Nov 2003 17:36:26 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!feed3.news.rcn.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:35786 Al Clark wrote: > > We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our > designs. > > The features I like with these devices is as follows: > > 1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities > 2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry. > 3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O > > The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching > for alternatives. > > I looked at the Xilinx CoolRunner and CoolRunner 2 parts. Here were my > impressions based from their web site. I would appreciate comments. > > CoolRunner: > > 1. Although they have these parts on their web site, they seem to be > deemphasised. This suggested to me that maybe this line is on the way > out. > > 2. I like the 3.3V supply with the 5V tolerance. > > 3. Power is lower than Altera, prices are higher. > > CoolRunner 2: > > 1. Xilinx wants to sell these parts. > 2. They use 1.8V supplies which is just about the only supply I don't > already need in my design. > 3. They are not 5V tolerant which may or may not be important (but often > is) > 4. They cost more than Altera Max 3000 or CoolRunner. > > Are the tools as easy as Altera? What's a good In-Circuit-Programmer? > Are there gotchas? > > What other players or parts should I consider? > > 1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and > low cost. Xilinx, and most other vendors, always ephasize the latest and greatest parts they have. The Coolrunner parts are really only a year or two old and so they will be around a long time to come. You can also get very competitive pricing if you discuss this with your distributor. They love to give you what you need to get a design win since they get paid for every part sold to that socket even if they done sell the parts! They will go to bat for you with the manufacturer on price. I know this from experience. -- Rick "rickman" Collins rick.collins@XYarius.com Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY removed. Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX ###### From: khimbittle@cliftonREMOVEsystems.com (Khim Bittle) Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Small PLD choices Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:55:38 GMT Organization: CompuServe Interactive Services Lines: 68 Message-ID: <3fbbacbb.13085309@news.compuserve.com> References: Reply-To: khimbittle@cliftonREMOVEsystems.com NNTP-Posting-Host: mid-tgn-noo-vty31.as.wcom.net X-Trace: ngspool-d02.news.aol.com 1069264197 27103 216.192.79.31 (19 Nov 2003 17:49:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@compuserve.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2003 17:49:57 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!small1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!news.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:35789 If your schedule is such that you won't go into production for 6 months you may want to contact Altera about MAX 2 , the next generation of product that will be available mid 2004. This just provides the option of staying with the same toolset for a much lower power device ... but they aren't 5V tolerant. I also have a power issue with the current MAX parts but since the other logic parts on my boards are Altera I really prefer to keep one development tool for the board and thus will wait for MAX 2 for the power reduction. Lattice also makes some great parts with good power characteristics .. I used to be a loyal Lattice guy until my local FAE quit and support stopped ... but no more. On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:55:49 GMT, Al Clark wrote: >We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our >designs. > >The features I like with these devices is as follows: > >1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities >2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry. >3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O > >The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching >for alternatives. > >I looked at the Xilinx CoolRunner and CoolRunner 2 parts. Here were my >impressions based from their web site. I would appreciate comments. > >CoolRunner: > >1. Although they have these parts on their web site, they seem to be >deemphasised. This suggested to me that maybe this line is on the way >out. > >2. I like the 3.3V supply with the 5V tolerance. > >3. Power is lower than Altera, prices are higher. > >CoolRunner 2: > >1. Xilinx wants to sell these parts. >2. They use 1.8V supplies which is just about the only supply I don't >already need in my design. >3. They are not 5V tolerant which may or may not be important (but often >is) >4. They cost more than Altera Max 3000 or CoolRunner. > >Are the tools as easy as Altera? What's a good In-Circuit-Programmer? >Are there gotchas? > >What other players or parts should I consider? > >1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and >low cost. > > >-- >Al Clark >Danville Signal Processing, Inc. >-------------------------------------------------------------------- >Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff >Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com ###### Message-ID: <3FBBD750.181F@designtools.co.nz> From: Jim Granville Reply-To: jim.granville@designtools.co.nz Organization: Mandeno Granville elect X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Small PLD choices References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 67 Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:49:20 +1300 NNTP-Posting-Host: 210.246.2.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tsnz.net X-Trace: news02.tsnz.net 1069274976 210.246.2.90 (Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:49:36 NZDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:49:36 NZDT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!news02.tsnz.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:35804 Al Clark wrote: > > We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our > designs. > > The features I like with these devices is as follows: > > 1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities > 2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry. > 3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O > > The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching > for alternatives. > > I looked at the Xilinx CoolRunner and CoolRunner 2 parts. Here were my > impressions based from their web site. I would appreciate comments. > > CoolRunner: > > 1. Although they have these parts on their web site, they seem to be > deemphasised. This suggested to me that maybe this line is on the way > out. > > 2. I like the 3.3V supply with the 5V tolerance. > > 3. Power is lower than Altera, prices are higher. > > CoolRunner 2: > > 1. Xilinx wants to sell these parts. > 2. They use 1.8V supplies which is just about the only supply I don't > already need in my design. > 3. They are not 5V tolerant which may or may not be important (but often > is) > 4. They cost more than Altera Max 3000 or CoolRunner. Relative price is a good indicator of CR/CR2 - commonly the newer devices are cheaper, to encourage design migration. Getting an accurate relative price right now is not easy, as vendors are trying to nudge up margins comming out of the slump. Xilinx have a CR2 webseminar inside the next 48 hrs. > What other players or parts should I consider? > > 1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and > low cost. If power is more important than speed, look at Atmel ATF15xx families. They have POF2JED Sw, so you can migrate your Altera design to Atmel, and they are close pinouts to the MAX7032.7064 devices. Other devices are Lattice 4000Z family, and Altera are 'horizon promising' MAX 2 families, but with some caveats : - Currently vaporware - They only claim 90% power reduce, which leaves them well above CR2 and 4000Z levels - Smallest MAX-2 device mentioned is 128 MC, so that's larger than 3032/3064's That's a fairly large chunk of market to ignore.... Lattice's WEB boast's about their Static Icc edge over CR2, but they never mention dynamic Icc (mA/Mhz), so one can conclude they are close, but just loose out on that one :) -jg ###### From: Steve Prokosch Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Small PLD choices Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 09:51:17 -0700 Organization: Xilinx,Inc Lines: 125 Message-ID: <3FBCF105.4050508@xilinx.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 149.199.109.77 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------040602060007060506080807" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en To: Al Clark In-Reply-To: Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!ctu-gate!news.nctu.edu.tw!feeder.seed.net.tw!attdv1!ip.att.net!newsgate.xilinx.com!cliff.xsj.xilinx.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:35848 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040602060007060506080807 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al, XPLA3 (CoolRunner) devices are not going away. Steve Al Clark wrote: >We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our >designs. > >The features I like with these devices is as follows: > >1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities >2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry. >3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O > >The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching >for alternatives. > >I looked at the Xilinx CoolRunner and CoolRunner 2 parts. Here were my >impressions based from their web site. I would appreciate comments. > >CoolRunner: > >1. Although they have these parts on their web site, they seem to be >deemphasised. This suggested to me that maybe this line is on the way >out. > >2. I like the 3.3V supply with the 5V tolerance. > >3. Power is lower than Altera, prices are higher. > >CoolRunner 2: > >1. Xilinx wants to sell these parts. >2. They use 1.8V supplies which is just about the only supply I don't >already need in my design. >3. They are not 5V tolerant which may or may not be important (but often >is) >4. They cost more than Altera Max 3000 or CoolRunner. > >Are the tools as easy as Altera? What's a good In-Circuit-Programmer? >Are there gotchas? > >What other players or parts should I consider? > >1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and >low cost. > > > > --------------040602060007060506080807 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Al,
XPLA3 (CoolRunner) devices are not going away. 
Steve

Al Clark wrote:
We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our 
designs.

The features I like with these devices is as follows:

1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities
2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry.
3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O

The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching 
for alternatives.

I looked at the Xilinx CoolRunner and CoolRunner 2 parts. Here were my 
impressions based from their web site. I would appreciate comments.

CoolRunner:

1. Although they have these parts on their web site, they seem to be 
deemphasised. This suggested to me that maybe this line is on the way 
out.

2. I like the 3.3V supply with the 5V tolerance.

3. Power is lower than Altera, prices are higher.

CoolRunner 2:

1. Xilinx wants to sell these parts. 
2. They use 1.8V supplies which is just about the only supply I don't 
already need in my design.
3. They are not 5V tolerant which may or may not be important (but often 
is)
4. They cost more than Altera Max 3000 or CoolRunner.

Are the tools as easy as Altera? What's a good In-Circuit-Programmer?
Are there gotchas? 

What other players or parts should I consider?

1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and 
low cost.
--------------040602060007060506080807-- ###### From: "Ulf Samuelsson" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Small PLD choices Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 18:06:17 +0100 Organization: atmel-nantes.fr Lines: 45 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 10.175.196.209 X-Trace: public2.atmel-nantes.fr 1069348078 26980 10.175.196.209 (20 Nov 2003 17:07:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@public2.atmel-nantes.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2003 17:07:58 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!fr.ip.ndsoftware.net!news.completel.fr!ircam.fr!freenix!oleane.net!oleane!news.atmel-nantes.fr!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:35857 "Al Clark" wrote in message news:Xns94386F2DBE553aclarkdanvillesignal@66.133.130.30... > We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our > designs. > > The features I like with these devices is as follows: > > 1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities > 2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry. > 3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O > > The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching > for alternatives. > > What other players or parts should I consider? > > 1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and > low cost. > You might want to check out the Atmel ATF1500 series. They are pincompatible with the Altera parts. Can convert easily the Altera files, and if you have size limitations, they will fit more into each device as well. -- Best Regards Ulf at atmel dot com These comments are intended to be my own opinion and they may, or may not be shared by my employer, Atmel Sweden. > > -- > Al Clark > Danville Signal Processing, Inc. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff > Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com ###### From: "Dan" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga References: <3fbbacbb.13085309@news.compuserve.com> Subject: Re: Small PLD choices Lines: 77 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.147.106.249 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s52 1069435400 24.147.106.249 (Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:23:20 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:23:20 GMT Organization: Comcast Online Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2003 17:23:20 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!attbi_s52.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:35912 Khim, What area (Country/State) are you located in? Dan "Khim Bittle" wrote in message news:3fbbacbb.13085309@news.compuserve.com... > > If your schedule is such that you won't go into production for 6 > months you may want to contact Altera about MAX 2 , the next > generation of product that will be available mid 2004. This just > provides the option of staying with the same toolset for a much lower > power device ... but they aren't 5V tolerant. I also have a power > issue with the current MAX parts but since the other logic parts on my > boards are Altera I really prefer to keep one development tool for the > board and thus will wait for MAX 2 for the power reduction. > > Lattice also makes some great parts with good power characteristics > .. I used to be a loyal Lattice guy until my local FAE quit and > support stopped ... but no more. > > > On Wed, 19 Nov 2003 16:55:49 GMT, Al Clark > wrote: > > >We have been using Max EPM3032 and EPM3064 devices for several of our > >designs. > > > >The features I like with these devices is as follows: > > > >1. Very Cheap - $1.30 for 3032 devices in small quantities > >2. Easy tools with 74 style schematic capture entry. > >3. 3.3V operation with 5V tolerant I/O > > > >The MAX 3000 is also a power hog which is the main reason I am searching > >for alternatives. > > > >I looked at the Xilinx CoolRunner and CoolRunner 2 parts. Here were my > >impressions based from their web site. I would appreciate comments. > > > >CoolRunner: > > > >1. Although they have these parts on their web site, they seem to be > >deemphasised. This suggested to me that maybe this line is on the way > >out. > > > >2. I like the 3.3V supply with the 5V tolerance. > > > >3. Power is lower than Altera, prices are higher. > > > >CoolRunner 2: > > > >1. Xilinx wants to sell these parts. > >2. They use 1.8V supplies which is just about the only supply I don't > >already need in my design. > >3. They are not 5V tolerant which may or may not be important (but often > >is) > >4. They cost more than Altera Max 3000 or CoolRunner. > > > >Are the tools as easy as Altera? What's a good In-Circuit-Programmer? > >Are there gotchas? > > > >What other players or parts should I consider? > > > >1. I want schematic entry, reasonably small size in QFP, low power and > >low cost. > > > > > >-- > >Al Clark > >Danville Signal Processing, Inc. > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Purveyors of Fine DSP Hardware and other Cool Stuff > >Available at http://www.danvillesignal.com >