From: John Williams Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: platform flash as storage? Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:03:29 +1000 Organization: ITEE, University of Queensland Lines: 33 Message-ID: Reply-To: jwilliams@itee.uq.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Host: g435-9029.itee.uq.edu.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au 1063752564 7727 130.102.66.250 (16 Sep 2003 22:49:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@uq.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Sep 2003 22:49:24 GMT User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030529 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news-out1.nntp.be!propagator2-sterling!In.nntp.be!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.syd.connect.com.au!news.bri.connect.com.au!bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:33059 Hi folks, We're looking for a high density serial flash part to hold microblaze uclinux kernel and file system images. The problem with commodity serial flash parts (SST, Nexflash etc) seems to be that they aren't really available in high densities (~4 - 8 MB) yet. If someone can correct me on this then please do! Anyway I'm wondering if we could potentially use a Xilinx platform flash part to hold both an fpga configuration and "random data". I know about SystemACE, but we can't afford that many pins. For the same reason I don't want to use regular parallel flash parts. The idea is that the FPGA configures with a microblaze bitstream, contained in the BRAM is a small bootloader that then sucks the kernel and filesystem image (potentially several megabytes) out of serial flash, copies it into external memory, then off it goes. With the serial flash parts I've seen so far, we'd need at least 2 or 3 of them to fit everything we need (plus level translators since this has to share an IO bank with 2.5V DDR, whereas serial flash devices generally seem >2.8V). It would be lovely if we could just put an 8MB xilinx platform flash part on the board and use it to store both the configuration and our software images. Any thoughts? Thanks, John ###### From: antti@case2000.com (Antti Lukats) Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: platform flash as storage? Date: 16 Sep 2003 22:38:00 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 22 Message-ID: <80a3aea5.0309162138.4a71d641@posting.google.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.142.117.91 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1063777081 520 127.0.0.1 (17 Sep 2003 05:38:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Sep 2003 05:38:01 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:33066 John Williams wrote in message news:... > Hi folks, > > We're looking for a high density serial flash part to hold microblaze > uclinux kernel and file system images. The problem with commodity > serial flash parts (SST, Nexflash etc) seems to be that they aren't > really available in high densities (~4 - 8 MB) yet. If someone can > correct me on this then please do! sorry, I am waiting also for an FPGA with config loader from MMC card! not avail. systemace is nice. you could do systemace-mmc controller with some small fpga not as nice as systemace, but would work. using platform flash for linux image storge would be real tricky at least. might be theoreatically possible but you would need to use JTAG to get the data asmuch as I understand., or add small logic that disables the configuration of the FPGA and restart config, and 'fetch' the stuff 'appended' to bitstream this would be fast download. antti ###### From: "Lorenzo" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: platform flash as storage? Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 09:38:59 +0200 Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: host195-75.pool8288.interbusiness.it (82.88.75.195) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1063784882 27338923 82.88.75.195 (16 [202895]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!host195-75.pool8288.interbusiness.IT!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:33070 "John Williams" ha scritto nel messaggio news:bk841k$7hf$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au... > It would be lovely if we could just put an 8MB xilinx > platform flash > part on the board and use it to store both the > configuration and our > software images. I think it's possible! You can store your custom code as it was a separate "firmware", like if you have a second FPGA attached. Then the platform flash will do the rest. Look at the app notes that show how to connect more than a FPGA to a configuration flash/PROM. -- Lorenzo ###### From: antti@case2000.com (Antti Lukats) Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: platform flash as storage? Date: 17 Sep 2003 07:09:27 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 23 Message-ID: <80a3aea5.0309170609.54fbfda3@posting.google.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.142.98.50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1063807770 950 127.0.0.1 (17 Sep 2003 14:09:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Sep 2003 14:09:30 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:33081 "Lorenzo" wrote in message news:... > "John Williams" ha scritto nel messaggio > news:bk841k$7hf$1@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au... > > > It would be lovely if we could just put an 8MB xilinx > > platform flash > > part on the board and use it to store both the > > configuration and our > > software images. > > I think it's possible! You can store your custom code as it was a separate > "firmware", like if you have a second FPGA attached. Then the platform flash > will do the rest. Look at the app notes that show how to connect more than a > FPGA to a configuration flash/PROM. hm not as simple as that I am afraid, you can store multiply bitstreams but the second bitstream is streamed out at high speed immediatly after the real one, so after the FPGA comes alive it should start monitoring the serial data in (what platform flash send the second fake fpga) and 'capture' that bitstream and store as firmware. hm with some hardware overhead might be doable. but nothing what you can take 1:1 from appnotes I am afraid antti ###### From: "Lorenzo" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: platform flash as storage? Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2003 17:01:16 +0200 Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <80a3aea5.0309170609.54fbfda3@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host195-75.pool8288.interbusiness.it (82.88.75.195) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1063811309 28616298 82.88.75.195 (16 [202895]) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!host195-75.pool8288.interbusiness.IT!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:33082 "Antti Lukats" ha scritto nel messaggio news:80a3aea5.0309170609.54fbfda3@posting.google.com... > hm not as simple as that I am afraid, you can store > multiply bitstreams > but the second bitstream is streamed out at high speed > immediatly after > the real one, so after the FPGA comes alive it should > start monitoring the > serial data in (what platform flash send the second fake > fpga) and > 'capture' > that bitstream and store as firmware. You could do like Xilinx does, i.e. add a "preamble" at the start of firmware bitstream (e.g. some dummy '1', then a '0'), in order to give to the FPGA the time to start. However, if you use a low CCLK frequency (like 4 MHz - which is the default for Spartan2, if I'm not wrong) I think that the dummy bits needed could be very few... > but nothing what you can take 1:1 from appnotes I am > afraid Of course not 1:1, but the serial configuration protocol is very simple, so it should be easy to implement it into the FPGA! (maybe :)) -- Lorenzo ###### From: jetmarc@hotmail.com (jetmarc) Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: platform flash as storage? Date: 17 Sep 2003 09:53:23 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.58.13.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1063817609 12327 127.0.0.1 (17 Sep 2003 16:53:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Sep 2003 16:53:29 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:33088 > We're looking for a high density serial flash part to hold microblaze > uclinux kernel and file system images. The problem with commodity > serial flash parts (SST, Nexflash etc) seems to be that they aren't > really available in high densities (~4 - 8 MB) yet. If someone can > correct me on this then please do! 3 years ago I had no trouble purchasing the Atmel Serial Dataflash AT45D161, which is 2 MBytes big. Certainly the higher densities became available in the meantime.