Message-ID: <3EFAF38B.3030504@hotmail.com> From: Paul Urbanus User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Free PAL synth tools (ABEL, PALASM, VHDL, etc.)? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: news.uncensored-news.com Lines: 35 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@uncensored-news.com Send only the header of the offending post, DO NOT attach any file. X-Comment: NOTICE: Uncensored-News.Com does not condone, nor support, spam, illegal or copyrighted postings. X-T.O.S.: http://www.uncensored-news.com/terms.html Date: 26 Jun 2003 13:23:06 GMT Organization: Uncensored-News.Com $9.95 Uncensored Newsgroups. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.uncensored-news.com!news.uncensored-news.com!news.uncensored-news.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:29989 I have a design that I did almost 15 years ago that fits in a 20L10 PAL. This was written in ABEL, a PALASM like language, that was created by Data IO (now Synario). I need to port this design to a 22V10, because these parts are more readily available. This design is for a peripheral for one of the early 1980s home computers. After I port the design, I'm going to release it into the public domain so enthusiasts of this machine can modify it if they want. To facilitate this, I'd like to make sure that whatever tool I use to synthesize the design can be had for free. I'd prefer to use ABEL, because that would require the minimum amount of design changes. Does anyone know if there are any old versions of ABEL (by Data IO, now Synario) that have been released into the public domain? If not, can anyone recall what form of copy protection, if any, was used on the old DOS versions. I know that Cypress has their Warp VHDL compiler for simple PALs, including the 22V10. But, it still costs about $100. Are any of the earlier versions available for free? I guess I could always use PALASM. Anywone if the latest version of this tool supports the 22V10? And where can I find it? Or, are there other options I'm not aware of. TIA Paul ______________________________________________________________________ Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><> ###### Message-ID: <3EFB0FD0.6080108@aon.at> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 17:22:56 +0200 From: Bertram Geiger User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; de-DE; rv:1.0.2) Gecko/20021120 Netscape/7.01 (Compact) X-Accept-Language: de-de, de MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Free PAL synth tools (ABEL, PALASM, VHDL, etc.)? References: <3EFAF38B.3030504@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 29 NNTP-Posting-Host: L0799P20.dipool.highway.telekom.at X-Trace: 1056640903 newsreader01.highway.telekom.at 18200 62.46.163.212 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!newsfeed01.univie.ac.at!newsfeed01.highway.telekom.at!newsreader01.highway.telekom.at!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:30026 Paul Urbanus schrieb: > I have a design that I did almost 15 years ago that fits in a 20L10 PAL. > This was written in ABEL, a PALASM like language, that was created by > Data IO (now Synario). > > I need to port this design to a 22V10, because these parts are more > readily available. ... > I'd prefer to use ABEL, because that would require the minimum amount of > design changes. Does anyone know if there are any old versions of ABEL > (by Data IO, now Synario) that have been released into the public > domain? If not, can anyone recall what form of copy protection, if any, > was used on the old DOS versions. have a look at "isp lever starter" from Lattice its free abd will do the job includiding programming the parts there is also ABEL in DOS Version around, i think it is "defacto" public domain meanwhile greetings, Bertram -- Bertram Geiger HTL-Bulme Graz, Austria ###### Reply-To: "John_H" From: "John_H" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga References: <3EFAF38B.3030504@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Free PAL synth tools (ABEL, PALASM, VHDL, etc.)? Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 15:42:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.65.17.17 X-Complaints-To: postmaster@opbu.xerox.com X-Trace: news-west.eli.net 1056642125 192.65.17.17 (Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:42:05 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 09:42:05 MDT Organization: Xerox Officeprinting NewsReader Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!out.nntp.be!propagator2-sterling!news-in-sterling.nuthinbutnews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!chi1.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!news-feed01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!news-west.eli.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:30014 "Paul Urbanus" wrote in message news:3EFAF38B.3030504@hotmail.com... > After I port the design, I'm going to release it > into the public domain so enthusiasts of this machine can modify it if > they want. To flavor your pursuit . . . how many enthusiasts would want to build something with 22V10s? I'd have to dig up the old programming hardware and ancient tools to get those PALs programmed. I can program CPLDs and FPGA configuration ROMs with JTAG, hooked up to the parallel port through a simple circuit to connect to the FPGA vedors' programming drivers. Perhaps more enthusiasts would be willing to go this route. ###### Message-ID: <3EFB1A9B.10009@hotmail.com> From: Paul Urbanus User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Free PAL synth tools (ABEL, PALASM, VHDL, etc.)? References: <3EFAF38B.3030504@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: news.uncensored-news.com Lines: 34 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@uncensored-news.com Send only the header of the offending post, DO NOT attach any file. X-Comment: NOTICE: Uncensored-News.Com does not condone, nor support, spam, illegal or copyrighted postings. X-T.O.S.: http://www.uncensored-news.com/terms.html Date: 26 Jun 2003 16:09:44 GMT Organization: Uncensored-News.Com $9.95 Uncensored Newsgroups. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.uncensored-news.com!news.uncensored-news.com!news.uncensored-news.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:29980 There are more enthusiasts who would use 22V10s than you would guess. In this case, the PALs are in an existing peripheral card. If the enthusiast wanted to change the functionality of the peripheral, it would be a relatively simple matter to modify the PAL code. And, many of the cables for programming ISP-capable 22V10s are nothing more than TTL buffers connected to a parallel port. So, these are easy for the hobbyist to build. John_H wrote: > "Paul Urbanus" wrote in message > news:3EFAF38B.3030504@hotmail.com... > > >>After I port the design, I'm going to release it >>into the public domain so enthusiasts of this machine can modify it if >>they want. > > > > To flavor your pursuit . . . how many enthusiasts would want to build > something with 22V10s? I'd have to dig up the old programming hardware and > ancient tools to get those PALs programmed. I can program CPLDs and FPGA > configuration ROMs with JTAG, hooked up to the parallel port through a > simple circuit to connect to the FPGA vedors' programming drivers. Perhaps > more enthusiasts would be willing to go this route. > > ______________________________________________________________________ Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Still Only $9.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com <><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><> ###### From: Mike Harrison Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Free PAL synth tools (ABEL, PALASM, VHDL, etc.)? Organization: White Wing Logic Message-ID: References: <3EFAF38B.3030504@hotmail.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:30:21 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.97.221.78 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net 1056652423 81.97.221.78 (Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:33:43 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2003 19:33:43 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!newsfep4-glfd.server.ntli.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:30035 On 26 Jun 2003 13:23:06 GMT, Paul Urbanus wrote: >I have a design that I did almost 15 years ago that fits in a 20L10 PAL. >This was written in ABEL, a PALASM like language, that was created by >Data IO (now Synario). > >I need to port this design to a 22V10, because these parts are more >readily available. This design is for a peripheral for one of the early >1980s home computers. After I port the design, I'm going to release it >into the public domain so enthusiasts of this machine can modify it if >they want. To facilitate this, I'd like to make sure that whatever tool >I use to synthesize the design can be had for free. > >I'd prefer to use ABEL, because that would require the minimum amount of >design changes. Does anyone know if there are any old versions of ABEL >(by Data IO, now Synario) that have been released into the public >domain? If not, can anyone recall what form of copy protection, if any, >was used on the old DOS versions. > >I know that Cypress has their Warp VHDL compiler for simple PALs, >including the 22V10. But, it still costs about $100. Are any of the >earlier versions available for free? > >I guess I could always use PALASM. Anywone if the latest version of this >tool supports the 22V10? And where can I find it? Atmel do a version of Wincupl, limited to their devices, but that includes 22V10. I don't know ABEL, but Cupl is a world better than PALASM ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Free PAL synth tools (ABEL, PALASM, VHDL, etc.)? Date: 26 Jun 2003 22:05:15 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 34 Message-ID: <6uel1g38qs.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <3EFAF38B.3030504@hotmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1056657915 1071 10.0.3.2 (26 Jun 2003 20:05:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Jun 2003 20:05:15 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:30040 Paul Urbanus writes: > I have a design that I did almost 15 years ago that fits in a 20L10 PAL. > > I need to port this design to a 22V10, because these parts are more > readily available. > 1980s home computers. After I port the design, I'm going to release it > into the public domain so enthusiasts of this machine can modify it if > they want. To facilitate this, I'd like to make sure that whatever tool > I use to synthesize the design can be had for free. http://members.surfeu.de/matthias.prinke/electronics/galprog_e.html http://www.s-line.de/homepages/bosch/galasm/galasm.txt Both are source. Both though only support GAL16V8 and GAL20V8. Are you sure that is PAL20L10 and not PAL20L8? According to my (incomplete) data sheet collection, the only 10 output PALs were 20RA10 and 22V10. For an PAL20L8 the GAL20V8 would suffice. > I guess I could always use PALASM. Anywone if the latest version of this That seems to be the standard. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Programmer, Archer, Blacksmith - hardware runs the world, software controls the hardware code generates the software, have you coded today? ###### Message-ID: <3EFB7B05.82D@designtools.co.nz> From: Jim Granville Reply-To: jim.granville@designtools.co.nz Organization: Mandeno Granville elect X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Free PAL synth tools (ABEL, PALASM, VHDL, etc.)? References: <3EFAF38B.3030504@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 37 Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:00:21 +1200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 210.246.2.225 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tsnz.net X-Trace: news02.tsnz.net 1056668401 210.246.2.225 (Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:00:01 NZST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 27 Jun 2003 11:00:01 NZST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!news-out.newsfeeds.com!propagator2-maxim!news-in-maxim.spamkiller.net!news02.tsnz.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:30058 Paul Urbanus wrote: > > I have a design that I did almost 15 years ago that fits in a 20L10 PAL. > This was written in ABEL, a PALASM like language, that was created by > Data IO (now Synario). > > I need to port this design to a 22V10, because these parts are more > readily available. This design is for a peripheral for one of the early > 1980s home computers. After I port the design, I'm going to release it > into the public domain so enthusiasts of this machine can modify it if > they want. To facilitate this, I'd like to make sure that whatever tool > I use to synthesize the design can be had for free. > > I'd prefer to use ABEL, because that would require the minimum amount of > design changes. Does anyone know if there are any old versions of ABEL > (by Data IO, now Synario) that have been released into the public > domain? If not, can anyone recall what form of copy protection, if any, > was used on the old DOS versions. > > I know that Cypress has their Warp VHDL compiler for simple PALs, > including the 22V10. But, it still costs about $100. Are any of the > earlier versions available for free? > > I guess I could always use PALASM. Anywone if the latest version of this > tool supports the 22V10? And where can I find it? > > Or, are there other options I'm not aware of. Your simplest path is to use Atmel's WINCUPL. This is not part of a much larger suite, so is much smaller/simpler to deploy. ABEL still exists, and Xilinx have that flow, as do Lattice, but you are getting closer to 1GByte of footprint. -jg