From: Bob Perlman Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Cheap development tools Message-ID: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 21:27:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.175.65.104 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1055280472 64.175.65.104 (Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:27:52 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 14:27:52 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed.news2me.com!sjc72.webusenet.com!news.webusenet.com!feed.news.sonic.net!typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:29456 "Where can I get cheap development tools for programmable devices?" You see that question frequently in this group. Brian Dipert has written a nice article in EDN on just that subject. Go to: http://www.e-insite.net/ednmag/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA300026&pubdate=5%2F29%2F2003 Bob Perlman Cambrian Design Works ###### Message-ID: <3EE66755.5B2A@designtools.co.nz> From: Jim Granville Reply-To: jim.granville@designtools.co.nz Organization: Mandeno Granville elect X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Cheap development tools References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 60 Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:18:45 +1200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.79.98.64 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tsnz.net X-Trace: news02.tsnz.net 1055287111 203.79.98.64 (Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:18:31 NZST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:18:31 NZST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!zen.net.uk!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!news02.tsnz.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:29470 Bob Perlman wrote: > > "Where can I get cheap development tools for programmable devices?" > You see that question frequently in this group. > > Brian Dipert has written a nice article in EDN on just that subject. > Go to: > > http://www.e-insite.net/ednmag/index.asp?layout=article&articleid=CA300026&pubdate=5%2F29%2F2003 Hmmm, I'd rate it OK, but a little thin on the CPLD end of the scale, and suspect it did not take a lot of time. Working forward from his 1997 time line, my understanding of the CPLD end is : AnaChip (ex ICT): Have Free SW called Place (and recently WinPlace), which does layout and fitting for all their SPLD and CPLD devices. Devices: They offer CMOS Zero power SPLD, and include hysteresis on newer models. Atmel: Have Free SW called WinCUPL. This was count limited, or qualified, but is now fully free - it makes a good teaching tool, and is good for SPLD/CPLD level designs. They also offer ProChip designer, with Altium bundles further up the price curve - tho their largest PLD device is 128 Macrocells. For HW development, Atmel have ISP cables, and ATF15xx-DK2 is an eval PCB with a PLCC84 ZIF (ATF1504/ATF1508) and 8x7 seg LEDS. IIRC this was $99. Devices: Atmel have 5V and 3V offerings, and have low static Icc values, on all SPLD and CPLD devices. Speeds and Max sizes are not 'leading edge'. Atmel also have niche FPGA solutions, not widely deployed. STm : Used to charge for full PSD Tool flow (ABEL variant), but I believe it is now free. Have recently released a 80C51+SPLD+Memory JTAG ISP device family, where the SPLD is appx 16 Macrocells. Time-bombed Sw generally 'goes down like a lead balloon', but sometimes it is not the chip vendors themselves that mandate that, but the tools they license. Teaching environments may lie unused for many months, and tutors do not want to find first monday that the tools have timed out over the holidays! There are also version control issues :- many companies like to 'freeze' the Design file AS WELL AS the tool chains used, for later revisions. -jg ###### From: Brian Dipert Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Cheap development tools Organization: EDN Magazine Reply-To: bdipert@NOSPAM.pacbell.net Message-ID: References: <3EE66755.5B2A@designtools.co.nz> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynews.com X-Complaints-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:40:34 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!colt.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed2.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!easynews-local!news.easynews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:29486 > Hmmm, I'd rate it OK, but a little thin on the CPLD end of the scale, >and >suspect it did not take a lot of time. Yeah, if I just didn't require those blasted two minimum hours of sleep every night.....or if the scientists would just quit fooling arond and perfect human cloning.... ...biting his tongue... NOTE NEW ADDRESS AND FAX NUMBER Brian Dipert Technical Editor: Mass Storage, Memory, Multimedia, PC Core Logic and Peripherals, and Programmable Logic EDN Magazine: http://www.edn.com Contributing Editor, CommVerge Magazine: http://www.commvergemag.com 5000 V Street Sacramento, CA 95817 (916) 454-5242 (voice), (617) 558-4470 (fax) ***REMOVE 'NOSPAM.' FROM EMAIL ADDRESS TO REPLY*** mailto:bdipert@NOSPAM.edn.com Visit me at http://www.bdipert.com ###### From: Bob Perlman Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Cheap development tools Message-ID: References: <3EE66755.5B2A@designtools.co.nz> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 33 Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 18:13:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.121.244.253 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 1055355206 67.121.244.253 (Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:13:26 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Jun 2003 11:13:26 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!out.nntp.be!propagator2-sterling!in.nntp.be!feed.news.sonic.net!typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:29502 Brian - If you came up with a pill that cured cancer, someone in this group would complain that you didn't make it cherry-flavored. Bob Perlman Cambrian Design Works On Tue, 10 Jun 2003 23:40:34 GMT, Brian Dipert wrote: >> Hmmm, I'd rate it OK, but a little thin on the CPLD end of the scale, >>and >>suspect it did not take a lot of time. > >Yeah, if I just didn't require those blasted two minimum hours of >sleep every night.....or if the scientists would just quit fooling >arond and perfect human cloning.... > >...biting his tongue... > >NOTE NEW ADDRESS AND FAX NUMBER >Brian Dipert >Technical Editor: Mass Storage, Memory, Multimedia, PC Core Logic and Peripherals, and Programmable Logic >EDN Magazine: http://www.edn.com >Contributing Editor, CommVerge Magazine: http://www.commvergemag.com >5000 V Street >Sacramento, CA 95817 >(916) 454-5242 (voice), (617) 558-4470 (fax) >***REMOVE 'NOSPAM.' FROM EMAIL ADDRESS TO REPLY*** >mailto:bdipert@NOSPAM.edn.com >Visit me at http://www.bdipert.com