Reply-To: "Blackie Beard" From: "Blackie Beard" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga References: Subject: Re: Overheat with XCV-600E Lines: 7 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 03:41:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.43.177.233 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1032493300 4.43.177.233 (Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:41:40 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 19 Sep 2002 23:41:40 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!fb931ecd!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:21107 The only time I've ever seen an FPGA overheat was when I was driving output pins into outputs, usually caused by an incorrect pinout. Did you recompile with the updated pin file? Is it a new board, or did you hack? ###### Message-ID: <3D8A9F72.764332DE@andraka.com> From: Ray Andraka Organization: Andraka Consulting Group, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Overheat with XCV-600E References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 46 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 04:04:13 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.15.41.165 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cox.net X-Trace: news1.east.cox.net 1032494653 68.15.41.165 (Fri, 20 Sep 2002 00:04:13 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 00:04:13 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newspeer1-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!cox.net!p01!news1.east.cox.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:21092 That sounds a little bit hot for a 600E clocked at 82 MHz, although if lots of your LUTs are SRL16's that are being clocked all the time and there is no airflow, it is concievable. Even so, it takes a lot of heat (much more the 65C) to kill the part outright. More likely, you got the pinout wrong and are driving out on pins that are also being driven by something else. In that case, it is possible to damage the output drivers. Another possibility is ESD damage. Pierre Lafrance wrote: > Hi all > I respined a product, changing the old Xilinx XV-300 with a XCV-600E. > Of course, I had to change voltage regulator from 2.5 to 1.8 volts, > and few 5 volts CPLD to 3.3v. > > The problem is : the XCV-600E overheat, and 1 of the prototype just > died. > I tried to find any hardware signal that would exceed voltage but > couldn't. Hardware seems to be just fine. I suspect the chips itself > to overheat. I just put a heatseak temporarly, but would like to > solve the problem if I can. > > Simulation with XPower estimate the chips temperature to be 50C, but I > measure up to 65C. > > The disign use 75% of BRAM, and 75% of FF of the XCV-600E. > Clock is 82MHz. > > Anybody experienced overheat with 600E ? > > Cheers ! > > Pierre -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 email ray@andraka.com http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 ###### From: "Dziadek" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Overheat with XCV-600E Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 08:35:25 +0200 Organization: tp.internet - http://www.tpi.pl/ Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <3D8A4CB9.79158CD3@xilinx.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bra-sdsl-tam.router.wro.korbank.pl X-Trace: news.tpi.pl 1032503551 13971 212.244.96.1 (20 Sep 2002 06:32:31 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@tpi.pl NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 06:32:31 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!newsfeed.tpinternet.pl!news.tpi.pl!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:21098 Few days ago I was trying to solve the temperature problem in Spartan-2. The device went wrong (without permanent damage, however) when the PCB was at 100 deg C (the estimated silicon temp. was approx. 130 deg C). Going into details I have found that the failing unit was one of DLLs used as a clock mirror. I have solved the problem just by removing the DLL - with the cost of some clock delay and lower performance. What was strange to me: two other DLLs used for frequency multiplication/division were operating OK. The same behaviour has been found in three devices. Shall I worry about the other DLLs operation at high temp? Is something special with DLL working as a clock mirror that it fails first? Dziadek Peter Alfke wrote in message <3D8A4CB9.79158CD3@xilinx.com>... >For the chip to die of thermal damage, the die would have to be >significantly hotter than 150 degrees C. We have shipped Xilinx FPGAs >into down-hole equipment where the chip is operating several kilometers >down, at the bottom of oil-drilling equipment. The FPGAs (and SRAMs and >A/Ds) worked for weeks at an ambient temperature of 175 degrees Celsius. >Silicon is much tougher than most people assume. :-) > >I have to believe you when you say you had a problem, but 65 degree chip >temperature was not the real cause. > >Peter Alfke, Xilinx Applications >============================================ ###### From: furia1024@wp.pl (Jerzy) Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Overheat with XCV-600E Date: 20 Sep 2002 02:35:11 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.160.24.105 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1032514511 12475 127.0.0.1 (20 Sep 2002 09:35:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Sep 2002 09:35:11 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:21125 Hi > I respined a product, changing the old Xilinx XV-300 with a XCV-600E. > Of course, I had to change voltage regulator from 2.5 to 1.8 volts, > and few 5 volts CPLD to 3.3v. [...] Try to see what current takes board and look at voltage directly at the Virtex. Maybe voltage in this place is to low ie. 3.0V then virtex starts behave unstable - can take more current then should. Maybe this is the point (power supply). 65C is normal temperature. furia ###### From: Farhad Abdolian Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Overheat with XCV-600E Reply-To: farhad_abdolian@removethis_first_hotmail.com Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 33 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 16:54:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.193.4.193 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.nyc.rr.com 1032540861 24.193.4.193 (Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:54:21 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 12:54:21 EDT Organization: Road Runner - NYC Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone.rdc-nyc.rr.com!news-out.nyc.rr.com!twister.nyc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:21127 Can you give more informaiton of the package type and how all the "not used" pins are connected. Looking into your mapping file, and compare the old one with the new one can help, even though it may not be the answer, but it is worth looking into. Would like to know when you find the answer, /Farhad pierrotlafouine@hotmail.com (Pierre Lafrance) wrote: >Hi all >I respined a product, changing the old Xilinx XV-300 with a XCV-600E. >Of course, I had to change voltage regulator from 2.5 to 1.8 volts, >and few 5 volts CPLD to 3.3v. > >The problem is : the XCV-600E overheat, and 1 of the prototype just >died. >I tried to find any hardware signal that would exceed voltage but >couldn't. Hardware seems to be just fine. I suspect the chips itself >to overheat. I just put a heatseak temporarly, but would like to >solve the problem if I can. > >Simulation with XPower estimate the chips temperature to be 50C, but I >measure up to 65C. > >The disign use 75% of BRAM, and 75% of FF of the XCV-600E. >Clock is 82MHz. > >Anybody experienced overheat with 600E ? > >Cheers ! > >Pierre ###### From: Philip Freidin Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Overheat with XCV-600E Organization: Fliptronics Reply-To: philip@fliptronics.com Message-ID: <23fsou8f5u9472u205cclfgd89dlmil99v@4ax.com> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 49 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.103.85.188 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.com 1032732146 ST000 216.103.85.188 (Sun, 22 Sep 2002 18:02:26 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 18:02:26 EDT X-UserInfo1: FKPO@MC@OPWKRRH[ZROZOQTDEB\@PD\MNPWZKB]MPXHNDQUBLNTC@AWZWDXZXQ[K\FFSKCVM@F_N_DOBWVWG__LG@VVOIPLIGX\\BU_B@\P\PFX\B[APHTWAHDCKJF^NHD[YJAZMCY_CWG[SX\Y]^KC\HSZRWSWKGAY_PC[BQ[BXAS\F\\@DMTLFZFUE@\VL Date: Sun, 22 Sep 2002 22:02:26 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!ngpeer.news.aol.com!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!7ae961dc!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:21179 While 65C is hot to touch, this is well within normal operating temperature. Here are some tests you could try, after re-checking that you dont have I/O contention (output connected to output). A) Power the board but dont configure the FPGA. It should be cold. B) Power the board but dont clock the FPGA. It should be cold. C) Create a dummy design that drives the outputs with alternating 0 and 1, but bulk of chip is empty. It should be cold to warm. If any of these run hot, you need to figure out why. For B and C, you could selectively disable output till you find out which one is having contention issues (if that is the problem) Philip ###### From: pierrotlafouine@hotmail.com (Pierre Lafrance) Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Overheat with XCV-600E Date: 23 Sep 2002 07:36:49 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 62 Message-ID: References: <23fsou8f5u9472u205cclfgd89dlmil99v@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.226.48.2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1032791809 17446 127.0.0.1 (23 Sep 2002 14:36:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Sep 2002 14:36:49 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:21198 Thaks all I have already made few tests you suggested me. I'll come with result when I find the problem in couple of weeks (I have to recompile an other FPGA for an other urgent project). Life is good, it feed us with problems to solve... Only engineer can enjoy this. Cheer Pierre Philip Freidin wrote in message news:<23fsou8f5u9472u205cclfgd89dlmil99v@4ax.com>... > While 65C is hot to touch, this is well within normal operating > temperature. > > Here are some tests you could try, after re-checking that you > dont have I/O contention (output connected to output). > > A) Power the board but dont configure the FPGA. It should be cold. > > B) Power the board but dont clock the FPGA. It should be cold. > > C) Create a dummy design that drives the outputs with alternating > 0 and 1, but bulk of chip is empty. It should be cold to warm. > > If any of these run hot, you need to figure out why. For B and C, > you could selectively disable output till you find out which one > is having contention issues (if that is the problem) > > Philip > > > > On 19 Sep 2002 14:55:31 -0700, pierrotlafouine@hotmail.com (Pierre Lafrance) > wrote: > >Hi all > >I respined a product, changing the old Xilinx XV-300 with a XCV-600E. > >Of course, I had to change voltage regulator from 2.5 to 1.8 volts, > >and few 5 volts CPLD to 3.3v. > > > >The problem is : the XCV-600E overheat, and 1 of the prototype just > >died. > >I tried to find any hardware signal that would exceed voltage but > >couldn't. Hardware seems to be just fine. I suspect the chips itself > >to overheat. I just put a heatseak temporarly, but would like to > >solve the problem if I can. > > > >Simulation with XPower estimate the chips temperature to be 50C, but I > >measure up to 65C. > > > >The disign use 75% of BRAM, and 75% of FF of the XCV-600E. > >Clock is 82MHz. > > > >Anybody experienced overheat with 600E ? > > > >Cheers ! > > > >Pierre > > Philip Freidin > Fliptronics