From: Tim Riemann Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Soundchip? Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 16:16:35 +0200 Organization: T-Online Lines: 10 Message-ID: <3c1mia.2bg.ln@octoate.tcs-software.de> Reply-To: octoate@NOSPAM.web.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Trace: news.t-online.com 1028557000 04 18282 72ChbqdESN-jvn 020805 14:16:40 X-Complaints-To: abuse@t-online.com X-Sender: 06456383-0001@t-dialin.net User-Agent: KNode/0.7.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsmm00.sul.t-online.com!t-online.de!news.t-online.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:19841 Hi, does anybody know if there exists an FPGA soundchip? Maybe with FM synthesis? TIA Tim -- Tim Riemann octoate@-SPAMREMOVE-.tcs-software.de ###### Message-ID: <3D4EC620.577BD4A7@andraka.com> From: Ray Andraka Organization: Andraka Consulting Group, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Soundchip? References: <3c1mia.2bg.ln@octoate.tcs-software.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 18:34:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.15.41.165 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cox.net X-Trace: news1.east.cox.net 1028572493 68.15.41.165 (Mon, 05 Aug 2002 14:34:53 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 14:34:53 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!newsfeed.stueberl.de!cox.net!p01!news1.east.cox.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:19828 It sounds like you are referring to an external chip. You can make a sound generator inside the FPGA, which can range from a simple clock generator to a DDS to drive a to a table based generator, and you can use arithmetic to handle multiple channels. Depending on your requirments, you can drive either a DAC or use a PWM through a simple RC filter to get your sound output. Tim Riemann wrote: > Hi, > does anybody know if there exists an FPGA soundchip? Maybe with FM > synthesis? > > TIA Tim > > -- > Tim Riemann > octoate@-SPAMREMOVE-.tcs-software.de -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 email ray@andraka.com http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Soundchip? Date: 05 Aug 2002 21:29:00 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 15 Message-ID: <6usn1tyuir.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <3c1mia.2bg.ln@octoate.tcs-software.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1028575740 994 10.0.3.2 (5 Aug 2002 19:29:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Aug 2002 19:29:00 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:19850 Tim Riemann writes: > does anybody know if there exists an FPGA soundchip? Maybe with FM > synthesis? Absolute minimal way to make sound with an FPGA is documented here: Virtex Synthesizable Delta-Sigma DAC http://www.xilinx.com/xapp/xapp154.pdf -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Programmer, Archer, Roleplayer - Make your code truely free: put it into the public domain ###### Message-ID: <3D4EF1A1.E6FE245D@andraka.com> From: Ray Andraka Organization: Andraka Consulting Group, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Soundchip? References: <3c1mia.2bg.ln@octoate.tcs-software.de> <6usn1tyuir.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 37 Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 21:40:33 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.15.41.165 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cox.net X-Trace: news1.east.cox.net 1028583633 68.15.41.165 (Mon, 05 Aug 2002 17:40:33 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 17:40:33 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!cox.net!p01!news1.east.cox.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:19854 I'mnot sure I'd call that the 'absolute minimal' way to make sound. It is simply a delta-sigma DAC. It is not the sound generator however. One could use a DDS to generate a programmable frequency output, using only the MSB for the output. While it would produce a squarewave with limited sound reproduction capability, it is nevertheless less. If frequency were not a concern, you could use a simple counter to divide the clock and output that directly. Neil Franklin wrote: > Tim Riemann writes: > > > does anybody know if there exists an FPGA soundchip? Maybe with FM > > synthesis? > > Absolute minimal way to make sound with an FPGA is documented here: > > Virtex Synthesizable Delta-Sigma DAC > http://www.xilinx.com/xapp/xapp154.pdf > > -- > Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ > Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Programmer, Archer, Roleplayer > - Make your code truely free: put it into the public domain -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 email ray@andraka.com http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 ###### From: Tim Riemann Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Soundchip? Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 00:01:11 +0200 Organization: T-Online Lines: 14 Message-ID: <7jsmia.bnb.ln@octoate.tcs-software.de> References: <3c1mia.2bg.ln@octoate.tcs-software.de> <6usn1tyuir.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Reply-To: octoate@NOSPAM.web.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Trace: news.t-online.com 1028586606 03 21909 gVDhbF-VSu-h-L 020805 22:30:06 X-Complaints-To: abuse@t-online.com X-Sender: 06456383-0001@t-dialin.net User-Agent: KNode/0.7.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsmm00.sul.t-online.com!t-online.de!news.t-online.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:19875 Neil Franklin wrote: > Absolute minimal way to make sound with an FPGA is documented here: > > Virtex Synthesizable Delta-Sigma DAC > http://www.xilinx.com/xapp/xapp154.pdf Thx, it is a good start, but I think that I don't have the time to start the development of a complete soundchip :(. CU Tim -- Tim Riemann octoate@-SPAMREMOVE-.tcs-software.de ###### From: Tim Riemann Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Soundchip? Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 00:04:38 +0200 Organization: T-Online Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <3c1mia.2bg.ln@octoate.tcs-software.de> <3D4EC620.577BD4A7@andraka.com> Reply-To: octoate@NOSPAM.web.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Trace: news.t-online.com 1028586608 03 21909 jVDhbF-VTu-pxk 020805 22:30:08 X-Complaints-To: abuse@t-online.com X-Sender: 06456383-0001@t-dialin.net User-Agent: KNode/0.7.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsmm00.sul.t-online.com!t-online.de!news.t-online.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:19879 Ray Andraka wrote: > It sounds like you are referring to an external chip. You can make a > sound generator inside the FPGA, which can range from a simple clock > generator to a DDS to drive a to a table based generator, and you can > use arithmetic to handle multiple channels. Depending on your > requirments, you can drive either a DAC or use a PWM through a simple > RC filter to get your sound output. Yes, that should be possible, but what I am thinking of is a soundchip like the YM262 OPL3 chip by Yamaha or maybe some of you remember the good old SID chip. Of course I would only get digital output, but that wouldn't be a problem, but is there a source where I can find a ready to use VHDL/Verilog implementation of such a complex chip? CU Tim -- Tim Riemann octoate@-SPAMREMOVE-.tcs-software.de ###### Message-ID: <3D4F054B.3F31C403@andraka.com> From: Ray Andraka Organization: Andraka Consulting Group, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Soundchip? References: <3c1mia.2bg.ln@octoate.tcs-software.de> <3D4EC620.577BD4A7@andraka.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 40 Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 23:04:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.15.41.165 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cox.net X-Trace: news1.east.cox.net 1028588663 68.15.41.165 (Mon, 05 Aug 2002 19:04:23 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 05 Aug 2002 19:04:23 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!cox.net!p01!news1.east.cox.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:19852 I'm not aware of any commercial IP for a sound chip in an FPGA. As far as standalone sound chips go, those have pretty much gone the way of the dodo because the DSP based sound cards are so much more capable. YOu might have better luck finding sounc generator code for a DSP micro and then using that as an add-on outside the FPGA. Tim Riemann wrote: > Ray Andraka wrote: > > > It sounds like you are referring to an external chip. You can make a > > sound generator inside the FPGA, which can range from a simple clock > > generator to a DDS to drive a to a table based generator, and you can > > use arithmetic to handle multiple channels. Depending on your > > requirments, you can drive either a DAC or use a PWM through a simple > > RC filter to get your sound output. > Yes, that should be possible, but what I am thinking of is a soundchip like > the YM262 OPL3 chip by Yamaha or maybe some of you remember the good old > SID chip. Of course I would only get digital output, but that wouldn't be a > problem, but is there a source where I can find a ready to use VHDL/Verilog > implementation of such a complex chip? > > CU Tim > > -- > Tim Riemann > octoate@-SPAMREMOVE-.tcs-software.de -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 email ray@andraka.com http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 ###### Message-ID: <3D4F68CD.79ED23E@laws.com> From: KVLKCL X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Soundchip? References: <3c1mia.2bg.ln@octoate.tcs-software.de> <3D4EC620.577BD4A7@andraka.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.112.56.70 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr21.news.prodigy.com 1028614252 ST000 67.112.56.70 (Tue, 06 Aug 2002 02:10:52 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 02:10:52 EDT Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com X-UserInfo1: OXXIFXCDTZUS@^LYMRKNOPDA[X_LPO@FLA]T]_MIJQR@EPIB_VUKAH_[MTX\IS[K[NGYJJFNOFZR_G[BUNTAOQLFE^TEHRPI]PZZRP_BMDSFQFL_]CBHXRWCMDCUZAZN@D_AKMNLEI]MWHCSXL^]NNC__CZFGSGHYYXWPFG@SCAVA]\FT\@B\RDGENSUQS^M Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 06:10:52 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!prodigy.*.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr21.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!41dfb507!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:19886 > Yes, that should be possible, but what I am thinking of is a soundchip like > the YM262 OPL3 chip by Yamaha or maybe some of you remember the good old > SID chip. Of course I would only get digital output, but that wouldn't be a > problem, but is there a source where I can find a ready to use VHDL/Verilog > implementation of such a complex chip? Check out the MAME game emulator project (www.mame.org) MAME is a arcade game emulator. It has C-source code for emulating (in C-software) hundreds of arcade hardware pieces. Not quite what you want (VHDL/Verilog), but with persistence, you should be able to translate the C-implementation into VHDL or Verilog. I don't know about your specific chip (YMF262), but many other Yamaha sound chips are emulated. Alos, the emulation quality varies from part to part. Some emulations are practically perfect, others are obviously flawed. The YMF262 is relatively simple compared to some of Yamaha's other chips (like the Ym2151 and 2610/2612) ... The MAME source code takes a little time to understand. Also plan on spending at least a week to understand the emulation mechanics (remember this the C-source code runs a 'virtual' hardware environment in software!) ###### From: Tim Riemann Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Soundchip? Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 09:39:27 +0200 Organization: T-Online Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <3c1mia.2bg.ln@octoate.tcs-software.de> <3D4EC620.577BD4A7@andraka.com> <3D4F68CD.79ED23E@laws.com> Reply-To: octoate@NOSPAM.web.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Trace: news.t-online.com 1028620803 02 21749 2DjhbNCVSt--yi 020806 08:00:03 X-Complaints-To: abuse@t-online.com X-Sender: 06456383-0001@t-dialin.net User-Agent: KNode/0.7.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsmm00.sul.t-online.com!t-online.de!news.t-online.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:19880 KVLKCL wrote: > I don't know about your specific chip (YMF262), but many other Yamaha > sound chips are emulated. Alos, the emulation quality varies from part This is just the chip which you have on the soundcards (up to the AWE64). It was used to generate the Adlib sound. > The MAME source code takes a little time to understand. Also plan on > spending at least a week to understand the emulation mechanics (remember > this the C-source code runs a 'virtual' hardware environment in > software!) Ok, I will have a look at it... CU Tim -- Tim Riemann octoate@-SPAMREMOVE-.tcs-software.de ###### From: Tim Riemann Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Soundchip? Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 09:40:40 +0200 Organization: T-Online Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <3c1mia.2bg.ln@octoate.tcs-software.de> <3D4EC620.577BD4A7@andraka.com> <3D4F054B.3F31C403@andraka.com> Reply-To: octoate@NOSPAM.web.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-Trace: news.t-online.com 1028620806 02 21749 MDjhbNCVTt-5Uj 020806 08:00:06 X-Complaints-To: abuse@t-online.com X-Sender: 06456383-0001@t-dialin.net User-Agent: KNode/0.7.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsmm00.sul.t-online.com!t-online.de!news.t-online.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:19881 Ray Andraka wrote: > I'm not aware of any commercial IP for a sound chip in an FPGA. As far as > standalone sound chips go, those have pretty much gone the way of the dodo > because the DSP based sound cards are so much more capable. YOu might > have better luck finding sounc generator code for a DSP micro and then > using that as an add-on outside the FPGA. Ok, I will have a look at it and try to find a sound generator for DSPs. Maybe I have a little bit luck and find one which fits my needs =). CU Tim -- Tim Riemann octoate@-SPAMREMOVE-.tcs-software.de ###### From: buchty@nina.hotswap (Rainer Buchty) Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Soundchip? Date: 6 Aug 2002 09:04:43 GMT Organization: Technische Universitaet Muenchen, Germany Lines: 26 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <3c1mia.2bg.ln@octoate.tcs-software.de> <3D4EC620.577BD4A7@andraka.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: atbode95.informatik.tu-muenchen.de X-Newsreader: xrn 9.02 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!193.154.160.102.MISMATCH!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newsfeed.kpnqwest.at!newsfeed.stueberl.de!uucp.gnuu.de!newsfeed.arcor-online.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!nina.hotswap!buchty Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:19863 In article , Tim Riemann writes: |> Yes, that should be possible, but what I am thinking of is a soundchip like |> the YM262 OPL3 chip by Yamaha or maybe some of you remember the good old |> SID chip. Of course I would only get digital output, but that wouldn't be a |> problem, but is there a source where I can find a ready to use VHDL/Verilog |> implementation of such a complex chip? The SID isn't that hard. You will find a nice introduction to its internal in the interview with Bob Yannes: http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e9426444/yannes.html Of course, you don't want to do it the very same way in an FPGA... Take a mux'ed phase accumulator, multiply the output(s) with the results of ADSR-style envelope generators and plug a state variable filter at these outputs. The final output gets another multiplier. The hard work, however, will be *efficient* implementation and, of course, making this thing sound like the original. Rainer -- Rainer Buchty, LRR, Technical University of Munich Phone: +49 89 289-28401, Fax +49 89 289-28232, Room S3240