From: "Tim" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Partial Reconfiguration (was: GREAT availability on Coolrunner) Date: Wed, 27 Mar 2002 23:34:20 -0000 Message-ID: <1017273068.24226.0.nnrp-14.9e9832fa@news.demon.co.uk> References: <3C9B5088.C4ACCCBB@yahoo.com> <3C9B9DE0.228A686D@yahoo.com> <3C9BA5AE.20AE1744@xilinx.com> <3C9BBD0F.F5FFC1AD@yahoo.com> <3C9BC896.2B0AADE2@xilinx.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tile.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tile.demon.co.uk:158.152.50.250 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1017273068 nnrp-14:24226 NO-IDENT tile.demon.co.uk:158.152.50.250 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Lines: 21 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.r-kom.de!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed.vmunix.org!peernews!peer.cwci.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tile.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:15915 Peter Alfke wrote > Now, what do you need for partial reconfig ? > I am involved in a Virtex-II design that totally relies on partial reconfiguration > How do you want to go about it ? > I suppose you understand the basics: > Reconfigure one complete frame at a time. Neither more nor less... Presumably the Pro parts add a new frame type which covers the columns over the PPCs. Can you give us any insight into a realistic scenario for tool support over the next few years? Or is it there already if we just knew where to look? (trimmed to c.a.fpga) ###### From: Peter Alfke Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Partial Reconfiguration (was: GREAT availability on Coolrunner) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 10:02:38 -0800 Organization: Xilinx Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3CA35ABF.C9E4EB41@xilinx.com> References: <3C9B5088.C4ACCCBB@yahoo.com> <3C9B9DE0.228A686D@yahoo.com> <3C9BA5AE.20AE1744@xilinx.com> <3C9BBD0F.F5FFC1AD@yahoo.com> <3C9BC896.2B0AADE2@xilinx.com> <1017273068.24226.0.nnrp-14.9e9832fa@news.demon.co.uk> Reply-To: peter.alfke@xilinx.com NNTP-Posting-Host: peter.xsj.xilinx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en To: Tim Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!wn14eed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.204!attbi_feed4!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!12.120.28.17!attla2!ip.att.net!newsgate.xilinx.com!cliff.xsj.xilinx.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:15898 Tim wrote: > Can you give us any insight into a realistic scenario for > tool support over the next few years? Or is it there already > if we just knew where to look? Tool support for partial reconfiguration was the question. I do not have a ready answer. Will try to research this. I have looked (very seriously) at designs where the course inter-CLB routing structure is constant, but the innards of the CLBs and DCMs are being re-configured. That is not too difficult. I will get involved more in J-Bits, maybe that is the (partial) answer... Peter Alfke ###### From: rickman Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Partial Reconfiguration (was: GREAT availability on Coolrunner) Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:42:19 -0500 Organization: Arius, Inc Lines: 49 Message-ID: <3CA3802B.8CB0D35@yahoo.com> References: <3C9B5088.C4ACCCBB@yahoo.com> <3C9B9DE0.228A686D@yahoo.com> <3C9BA5AE.20AE1744@xilinx.com> <3C9BBD0F.F5FFC1AD@yahoo.com> <3C9BC896.2B0AADE2@xilinx.com> <1017273068.24226.0.nnrp-14.9e9832fa@news.demon.co.uk> <3CA35ABF.C9E4EB41@xilinx.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZYoORDjY4U0yf66U8O3DKwqwanMtFJw4drizjb8iD9W0/xRhJZwcuO X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Mar 2002 20:42:21 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:15923 Peter Alfke wrote: > > Tim wrote: > > > Can you give us any insight into a realistic scenario for > > tool support over the next few years? Or is it there already > > if we just knew where to look? > > Tool support for partial reconfiguration was the question. > > I do not have a ready answer. Will try to research this. > I have looked (very seriously) at designs where the course inter-CLB routing > structure is constant, but the innards of the CLBs and DCMs are being > re-configured. That is not too difficult. > I will get involved more in J-Bits, maybe that is the (partial) answer... > Peter Alfke I am confused. I thought the web site clearly says that partial reconfiguration is currently supported in the tools for the VirtexE and VirtexII devices? Of course, this is clearly a marketing page with little technical detail, but they do make this claim without caveats. http://www.xilinx.com/xlnx/xil_prodcat_product.jsp?title=partial_reconfig and http://www.xilinx.com/xlnx/xil_prodcat_product.jsp?title=modular_design Am I reading something into this that is not there? It is also not clear to me if (or moreso why-not?) this is available for the Spartan-IIE chips. They are supposed to be the same as the VirtexE and I have heard they even support the same bit streams, even though they don't have as much BRAM. The modular design page says SpartanII is supported, but the Partial Reconfig page does not. -- Rick "rickman" Collins rick.collins@XYarius.com Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY removed. Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX ###### Message-ID: <3CA39072.7022C291@andraka.com> From: Ray Andraka Organization: Andraka Consulting Group, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Partial Reconfiguration (was: GREAT availability on Coolrunner) References: <3C9B5088.C4ACCCBB@yahoo.com> <3C9B9DE0.228A686D@yahoo.com> <3C9BA5AE.20AE1744@xilinx.com> <3C9BBD0F.F5FFC1AD@yahoo.com> <3C9BC896.2B0AADE2@xilinx.com> <1017273068.24226.0.nnrp-14.9e9832fa@news.demon.co.uk> <3CA35ABF.C9E4EB41@xilinx.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 49 Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 21:51:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.15.41.165 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cox.net X-Trace: news1.east.cox.net 1017352286 68.15.41.165 (Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:51:26 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:51:26 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!cox.net!news1.east.cox.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:15917 In the case where just the innards of the CLBs are getting reconfigured, I find it is a whole lot easier just to use SRL16's and do a 'poor-mans' reconfiguration by shifting new data into the SRL16. There are several benefits, all tool related: 1) The pins to the SRL16 are not permuted like they are for a LUT, so there is no having to figure out what the LUT pin assignments are 2) You can simulate the entire design with existing tools, including the reconfiguration 3) The SRL16 reload can be faster: 16 clocks of your system clock to reload vs many CCLK clocks to clock in a new frame 4) The SRL16's are supported by mainstream tools flow vs. a hacking approach using jbits 5) no need to mess with the select map interface and potentially reconfiguring wrong. Some day, the tools might be there for partial reconfig, but right now, it is not for the faint of heart nor for those who for whatever reason MUST use the mainstream tools. Peter Alfke wrote: > Tim wrote: > > > Can you give us any insight into a realistic scenario for > > tool support over the next few years? Or is it there already > > if we just knew where to look? > > Tool support for partial reconfiguration was the question. > > I do not have a ready answer. Will try to research this. > I have looked (very seriously) at designs where the course inter-CLB routing > structure is constant, but the innards of the CLBs and DCMs are being > re-configured. That is not too difficult. > I will get involved more in J-Bits, maybe that is the (partial) answer... > Peter Alfke -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 email ray@andraka.com http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 ###### Message-ID: <3CA3937F.64E9161C@andraka.com> From: Ray Andraka Organization: Andraka Consulting Group, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Partial Reconfiguration (was: GREAT availability on Coolrunner) References: <3C9B5088.C4ACCCBB@yahoo.com> <3C9B9DE0.228A686D@yahoo.com> <3C9BA5AE.20AE1744@xilinx.com> <3C9BBD0F.F5FFC1AD@yahoo.com> <3C9BC896.2B0AADE2@xilinx.com> <1017273068.24226.0.nnrp-14.9e9832fa@news.demon.co.uk> <3CA35ABF.C9E4EB41@xilinx.com> <3CA3802B.8CB0D35@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 58 Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:04:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.15.41.165 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cox.net X-Trace: news1.east.cox.net 1017353072 68.15.41.165 (Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:04:32 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:04:32 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!cox.net!news1.east.cox.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:15918 Modular design and partial reconfiguration are two very different things. Modular design is a capability in the software that should let you do place and route on sections of a design separately, while partial reconfig lets you load pieces of the design without (re)programming the whole enchilada. While the bitstreams between spartanII and virtex (not virtexE) are identical, the silicon is not. SpartanII and Virtex 2.5v have the same device features from a bitstream standpoint, thus the ability for identical bitstreams. Nevertheless there are a few differences between the spartanII and the 2.5v Virtex: One of those differences is that the spartanII does not support the select map programming mode, which is the mechanism needed for partial reconfiguration, ergo no partial reconfig in the spartanII devices. rickman wrote: > I am confused. I thought the web site clearly says that partial > reconfiguration is currently supported in the tools for the VirtexE and > VirtexII devices? Of course, this is clearly a marketing page with > little technical detail, but they do make this claim without caveats. > > http://www.xilinx.com/xlnx/xil_prodcat_product.jsp?title=partial_reconfig > > and > > http://www.xilinx.com/xlnx/xil_prodcat_product.jsp?title=modular_design > > Am I reading something into this that is not there? > > It is also not clear to me if (or moreso why-not?) this is available for > the Spartan-IIE chips. They are supposed to be the same as the VirtexE > and I have heard they even support the same bit streams, even though > they don't have as much BRAM. The modular design page says SpartanII is > supported, but the Partial Reconfig page does not. > > -- > > Rick "rickman" Collins > > rick.collins@XYarius.com > Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY > removed. > > Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company > Specializing in DSP and FPGA design URL http://www.arius.com > 4 King Ave 301-682-7772 Voice > Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7666 FAX -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 email ray@andraka.com http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759