Message-ID: <3C6670AF.B7048800@algor.co.uk> From: Rick Filipkiewicz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Xilinx EDIF to BIT transation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Algorithmics Ltd. Cache-Post-Path: mudchute.algor.co.uk!unknown@rfhome.algor.co.uk X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 70 Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 13:07:59 +0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.254.210.251 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1013346482 62.254.210.251 (Sun, 10 Feb 2002 13:08:02 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 13:08:02 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!skynet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed.online.be!194.6.79.69.MISMATCH!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:14124 Johann Glaser wrote: > Hi! > > I am searching the programs to convert an EDIF file to a .BIT file, which > can be downloaded into a Xilinx FPGA. > > I found out that these tools are called ngdbuild, par, ... and are part of > the Xilinx Foundation/Alliance/WebPack. > > I downloaded the WebPack, but it doesn't contain the ability to make a > .BIT file for the Spartan XCS10 FPGA which I have on an evaluation board. > > Where can I get only the command line tools to convert an EDIF file to a > .BIT file for _all_ Xilinx devices? > > I read the very long thread about these tools as open source two months > ago. I am a Linux user, so I'd like to have them open source too. But that > is not necessary. If I can get the executabels would be enough. If they > are windows-executables, I can use Wine, so this isn't a problem, too. > > Question to the @xilinx.com readers: Could Xilinx please release at least > these programs for free download? Without the nice graphical frontends, > only the command line tools. And without the source code. Only the > executables for some operating systems. > > All other tools I already have (VHDL/Verilog Compiler, downloader to the > FPGA). > > Thanks > Hansi > > -- > Johann Glaser > Vienna University of Technology > Electrical Engineering > http://stud3.tuwien.ac.at/~e9825761/index.html I'm afraid you have the wrong end of the stick here. There is no utility the `converts' an EDIF file to a .bit file. By ``VHDL/Verilog Compiler'' I assume you mean a synthesis tool ? If so which one ? Form then on the basic process is, roughly: o NGDBUILD takes in the EDIF(s) and produces a .ngd (= Native Generic Database). This is where you specify the Xilinx device family. Since you are using an eval board with fixed pinout you will need to specifiy this either here in a UCF file or at the next stage via a PCF. o MAP takes in the .ngd and allocates your logic to LUTs., assigns FFs to IOB cells if required, etc. and produces a .ncd file (= Native Circuit Database) but this has no placement or routing information. Here you specify the actual device you're using. o PAR takes the MAP output and does placement & routing, giving now a P&R'ed .ncd. Unless you have done it by hand PAR will auto-allocate external pins for your IOs. o BITGEN takes the post PAR .ncd and produces a .bit file. Once you've understood it its pretty easy to set up a makefile. You can get the Xilinx free tools by downloading ``WebPACK'' from their site but, as you surmise, they are Windows tools. For the command line descriptions you'll have to download some of the manuals separately, they're not part of the WebPACK package. The 2 `Bibles' are the ``Development System Reference Guide'' and the ``Libraries Guide''. ###### From: Duane Clark Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Xilinx EDIF to BIT transation Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 08:58:59 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 33 Message-ID: <3C66A6D3.9020002@junkmail.com> References: <3C6670AF.B7048800@algor.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-180.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.8) Gecko/20020204 X-Accept-Language: en-us Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:14126 Falk Brunner wrote: > "Johann Glaser" schrieb im Newsbeitrag > news:a45vet$1btfvn$1@ID-115042.news.dfncis.de... >>I think I didn't depict my problem exact enough. I need _these_ tools, you >>described. NGDBUILT, MAP, PAR, BITGEN. >> >>2) I'd like to have them for linux. But windows executabes (.exe-files) >>are good enough for me, because I can use Wine (the windows emulator). >> > > No native windos version available yet. I'm not sure what you meant by that. The Xilinx tools ngdbuild, map, par, bitgen, etc, are indeed all available in native windoze versions, and I have been running them under Linux/wine for almost 2 years. But I have purchased them, so I have no idea what is available for free. Yo, Xilinx :-) Most other FPGA CAE tools are now available in Linux native versions, even the big guys like Synplicity, Synopsis and Modelsim. And even your tools run well on Linux, albeit if the user is willing and able to deal with wine. Linux is just a better platform for CAE tools than Windoze (okay, maybe that is an opinion), and I really think it is time for Xilinx to add official support. Heck, Wine even has the capability to allow you to compile your Windoze source with the Wine libraries, and distribute that as a "Linux native" application. At the least, that makes for a reasonable interim solution. (Just my periodic plea) -- My real email is akamail.com@dclark (or something like that). ###### Message-ID: <3C66A997.F5A39BFA@algor.co.uk> From: Rick Filipkiewicz X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Xilinx EDIF to BIT transation References: <3C6670AF.B7048800@algor.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Algorithmics Ltd. Cache-Post-Path: mudchute.algor.co.uk!unknown@rfhome.algor.co.uk X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b2 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 40 Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:10:47 +0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.254.210.251 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1013361053 62.254.210.251 (Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:10:53 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 17:10:53 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeeder.inwind.it!inwind.it!itgate.net!news.it.colt.net!peernews2.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:14125 Falk Brunner wrote: > "Johann Glaser" schrieb im Newsbeitrag > news:a45vet$1btfvn$1@ID-115042.news.dfncis.de... > > > I think I didn't depict my problem exact enough. I need _these_ tools, you > > described. NGDBUILT, MAP, PAR, BITGEN. > > > > 1) WebPack only offers them for SpartanII, I need them for Spartan (my > > Device is XCS10). > > Not available in WEBPACK. You have to go for commecial software, maybe the > student edition of foundation suports Spartan. > I didn't realise that. Apologies Johann. I suppose that replacing your Spartan eval board with a more modern is out of the question ? You can get SpartanII boards from: http://www.xess.com http://www.burched.com or one of the other places listed in Falk's posting in the `Help getting started' thread. > > > 2) I'd like to have them for linux. But windows executabes (.exe-files) > > are good enough for me, because I can use Wine (the windows emulator). > > No native windos version available yet. > I expect Falk meant `Linux' instead of `windos'. Its one of the strange phenomena of the EDA world that whereas everyone else is bringing out their tools under Linux Xilinx consistently refuse to even consider the idea, nor the other one of Tcl scripting. ###### From: In Memory of tecNovia Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Xilinx EDIF to BIT transation Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 17:07:24 -0800 Message-ID: References: <3C6670AF.B7048800@algor.co.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 39 NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.154.91.226 X-Trace: 1013476957 nntp.cts.com 49928 jlkolb/64.154.91.226 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!telocity-west!DirecTV-DSL!hub1.nntpserver.com!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!usc.edu!newspeer.cts.com!galanthis.cts.com!127.0.0.1.MISMATCH!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:14193 On Sun, 10 Feb 2002 13:07:59 +0000, Rick Filipkiewicz wrote: --snip-- > >I'm afraid you have the wrong end of the stick here. There is no utility the >`converts' an EDIF file to a .bit file. By ``VHDL/Verilog Compiler'' I assume >you mean a synthesis tool ? If so which one ? > >Form then on the basic process is, roughly: > >o NGDBUILD takes in the EDIF(s) and produces a .ngd (= Native Generic >Database). This is where you specify the Xilinx device family. Since you are >using an eval board with fixed pinout you will need to specifiy this either >here in a UCF file or at the next stage via a PCF. > --snip-- Thanks for the detailed description. The EDIF file contains a reference to the part Xilinx XST was told was the target part, which can be overcome by the ngdbuild -p parameter. (comment "Reference To The Cell Of Highest Level") (design xilinx_wrap (cellref xilinx_wrap (libraryref DESIGNS)) (property PART (string "V200E-PQ240-7")) ) ) My question is - is the EDIF file truly generic or is it already family specific. To generate black_box EDIF files for other users to take and link, do I only need one EDIF file, or do I need one for VertexE, one for Spartan, etc? John ###### Message-ID: <3C68707E.488106D2@andraka.com> From: Ray Andraka Organization: Andraka Consulting Group, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Xilinx EDIF to BIT transation References: <3C6670AF.B7048800@algor.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 29 Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:28:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.9.153.21 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cox.net X-Trace: news1.east.cox.net 1013477286 68.9.153.21 (Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:28:06 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 20:28:06 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news-hub.siol.net!newsfeeds-atl2!newsfeeds-atl1.usenetserver.com!cox.net!news1.east.cox.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:14158 Depends if you use primitives that are unique to a particular family or not. For example, if your edif contains a clkdlle, then it is virtexe specific. If it contains only unisim primitives that are common to all families, then you have something that will work on multiple families. Our ultra-fast FFT core, for example uses the same edif netlist for spartanII, virtex and virtexE. It contains RLOCs, so it is not compatible with VirtexII. In Memory of tecNovia wrote: > > My question is - is the EDIF file truly generic or is it already > family specific. To generate black_box EDIF files for other users to > take and link, do I only need one EDIF file, or do I need one for > VertexE, one for Spartan, etc? > > John -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 email ray@andraka.com http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 ###### From: In Memory of tecNovia Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Xilinx EDIF to BIT transation Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 10:25:30 -0800 Message-ID: References: <3C6670AF.B7048800@algor.co.uk> <3C68707E.488106D2@andraka.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 38 NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.154.91.226 X-Trace: 1013538205 nntp.cts.com 495 jlkolb/64.154.91.226 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!newspeer.cts.com!galanthis.cts.com!127.0.0.1.MISMATCH!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:14189 On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:28:06 GMT, Ray Andraka wrote: >Depends if you use primitives that are unique to a particular family or not. For >example, if your edif contains a clkdlle, then it is virtexe specific. If it >contains only unisim primitives that are common to all families, then you have >something that will work on multiple families. Our ultra-fast FFT core, for >example uses the same edif netlist for spartanII, virtex and virtexE. It contains >RLOCs, so it is not compatible with VirtexII. > Thanks Ray. How can I control which primitives are used to make a single EDIF universal? I'm using the Xilinx Foundation 3.3i Project Navigator with XST to synthesize from VHDL, then a DOS batch file for the EDIF to MCS process. This is for a black_box component, so no I/O pads involved. The project setup in Project Navigator includes selecting a part - I don't know what use XST makes of that selection other than putting the selected part name in the EDIF file. Can XST be run as a DOS command line with switches to select a library of universal primitives? John >In Memory of tecNovia wrote: > >> >> My question is - is the EDIF file truly generic or is it already >> family specific. To generate black_box EDIF files for other users to >> take and link, do I only need one EDIF file, or do I need one for >> VertexE, one for Spartan, etc? >> >> John ###### From: "Tim" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Xilinx EDIF to BIT transation Date: Tue, 12 Feb 2002 20:03:51 -0000 Message-ID: <1013544321.7506.0.nnrp-07.9e9832fa@news.demon.co.uk> References: <3C6670AF.B7048800@algor.co.uk> <3C68707E.488106D2@andraka.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tile.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: tile.demon.co.uk:158.152.50.250 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1013544321 nnrp-07:7506 NO-IDENT tile.demon.co.uk:158.152.50.250 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Lines: 45 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!tile.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:14190 This is not too much of a reply, but... Running XST yields this usage message: Usage: xst [-ifn ] [-ofn ] [-quiet] And looking in the foobar.xst file written by the GUI shows -p switch which surely selects the part family. I would expect that you can experiment from heer to get a batch version of XST. For an easier life, use Synplicity :) "In Memory of tecNovia" wrote > On Tue, 12 Feb 2002 01:28:06 GMT, Ray Andraka wrote: > > >Depends if you use primitives that are unique to a particular family or not. For > >example, if your edif contains a clkdlle, then it is virtexe specific. If it > >contains only unisim primitives that are common to all families, then you have > >something that will work on multiple families. Our ultra-fast FFT core, for > >example uses the same edif netlist for spartanII, virtex and virtexE. It contains > >RLOCs, so it is not compatible with VirtexII. > > > > Thanks Ray. > > How can I control which primitives are used to make a single EDIF > universal? I'm using the Xilinx Foundation 3.3i Project Navigator with > XST to synthesize from VHDL, then a DOS batch file for the EDIF to MCS > process. This is for a black_box component, so no I/O pads involved. > > The project setup in Project Navigator includes selecting a part - I > don't know what use XST makes of that selection other than putting > the selected part name in the EDIF file. > > Can XST be run as a DOS command line with switches to select a library > of universal primitives? > > John