From: David Findlay Subject: Homebrew computers using FPGA? Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Organization: Davsoft Message-ID: User-Agent: Pan/0.11.1 (Unix) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Comment-To: ALL Lines: 5 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 10:44:35 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 144.137.140.1 X-Complaints-To: news@bigpond.net.au X-Trace: news-server.bigpond.net.au 1010918675 144.137.140.1 (Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:44:35 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:44:35 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!news-server.bigpond.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:13163 Is it possible to build a homebrew computer of some description using FPGA's? I know it won't be as powerful as a PC, but I'm more interested in designing and building my own. Also does anyone know of an FPGA simulator for Linux? Thanks, David ###### From: "cn99" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Homebrew computers using FPGA? Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 19:44:43 +0800 Organization: Bentium Ltd. (CN99) Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.111.177.81 X-Trace: mail.cn99.com 1010922208 25536 166.111.177.81 (13 Jan 2002 11:43:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.cn99.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:43:28 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!hub1.nntpserver.com!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator-la!news-in-la.newsfeeds.com!news-in.superfeed.net!news.cn99.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:13149 I'm afraid that kind of computer is only appropriate for special use, e.g. a webserver with very limited ability. Besides, a FPGA-based computer won't reach as high frequecy as required by many applications. "David Findlay" wrote in message news:pan.2002.01.13.20.44.34.131584.2125@yahoo.com.au... > Is it possible to build a homebrew computer of some description using FPGA's? I know it won't be > as powerful as a PC, but I'm more interested in designing and building my own. Also does anyone > know of an FPGA simulator for Linux? Thanks, > > David ###### Message-ID: <3C41A903.C4855C57@andraka.com> From: Ray Andraka Organization: Andraka Consulting Group, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Homebrew computers using FPGA? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 44 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:32:04 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.13.238.93 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.wwck1.ri.home.com 1010935924 24.13.238.93 (Sun, 13 Jan 2002 07:32:04 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 07:32:04 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanjose!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.wwck1.ri.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:13144 I beg to differ. While you are not going to build a pentium class CPU in an FPGA, the FPGA can support CPUs of reasonable complexity, and if the design (including instruction set architecture) is done with the FPGA features in mind you can get very respectable performance. I did a microcontroller design several years ago that was a sort of a cross between a PIC and an RCA 1801 for a 4000XLA device. That ran at over 60 MHz in a -09 speed grade device (it was used for some general purpose processing in a digital photo print processor). I am aware of 6502, 6800, and 8051clones in FPGAs, and all run at least as fast as the older technology chip they are cloning. The Xilinx Microblaze and the Altera NIOS are also very capable microprocessors implemented in the FPGA fabric, and are much faster than many of the small microcontrollers available out there. Aside from the practical side, doing a processor design can be a tremendous learning experience and is a very rewarding project. cn99 wrote: > I'm afraid that kind of computer is only appropriate for special use, e.g. a > webserver with very limited ability. Besides, a FPGA-based computer won't > reach as high frequecy as required by many applications. > > "David Findlay" wrote in message > news:pan.2002.01.13.20.44.34.131584.2125@yahoo.com.au... > > Is it possible to build a homebrew computer of some description using > FPGA's? I know it won't be > > as powerful as a PC, but I'm more interested in designing and building my > own. Also does anyone > > know of an FPGA simulator for Linux? Thanks, > > > > David -- --Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 email ray@andraka.com http://www.andraka.com "They that give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -Benjamin Franklin, 1759 ###### From: Duane Clark Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Homebrew computers using FPGA? Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 08:13:08 -0800 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3C41B214.7000701@junkmail.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-957.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:0.9.7+) Gecko/20020110 X-Accept-Language: en-us Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:13147 David Findlay wrote: > Is it possible to build a homebrew computer of some description > using FPGA's? I know it won't be as powerful as a PC, but I'm more > interested in designing and building my own. Sure. For example, here is a Sparc on an FPGA: http://www.estec.esa.nl/wsmwww/leon/ A number of other smaller processors have also been ported to FPGAs. > Also does anyone know > of an FPGA simulator for Linux? Thanks, Oddly enough, there are many Linux simulators. Take a look at the bottom of the page: http://www.polybus.com/xilinx_on_linux.html ###### From: "Peter Ormsby" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga References: Subject: Re: Homebrew computers using FPGA? Lines: 39 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 19:20:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.41.9.224 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.mn.mediaone.net 1010949652 66.41.9.224 (Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:20:52 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:20:52 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!cyclone.rdc-detw.rr.com!news.mw.mediaone.net!typhoon.mn.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:13182 David, Putting processors in FPGAs is becoming more common all the time. Actually, creating the processor is the easy part of making a useable microprocessor/microcontroller system. It's creating the 'C' compilers/linkers and the Debuggers and the OSes and the development environments that are really the trick. However, having someone create a processor in a FPGA has got to be one of the best ways to teach a person about computer architectures. Just as an example of how far some of the FPGA-specific processors have gotten is to look at the Nios processor from Altera and the Microblaze from Xilinx. I can't speak to the Microblaze much since I haven't seen anything other than marketing stuff, but the Nios processor has quite a collection of the support tools. In addition to the "free" (comes with the kit) GNU Pro compiler/linker/debugger, there's a bunch of third-part stuff like the Arriba (Viosoft) IDE, the Nucleus Plus (ATI) and Kros (Shugyo) RTOS. There's even a version of Linux (Microtronix's uCLinux distro) that runs on Nios as well as TCP/IP stacks and a web server application that come with Altera's Ethernet Development Kit. Anyway, if you don't need Pentium/Athlon type performance, FPGAs really are a viable platform for computing. Check out the Nios information here... http://www.altera.com/products/devices/excalibur/exc-nios_index.html -Pete- David Findlay wrote in message news:pan.2002.01.13.20.44.34.131584.2125@yahoo.com.au... > Is it possible to build a homebrew computer of some description using FPGA's? I know it won't be > as powerful as a PC, but I'm more interested in designing and building my own. Also does anyone > know of an FPGA simulator for Linux? Thanks, > > David ###### From: "Jan Gray" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Homebrew computers using FPGA? Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 11:39:23 -0800 Organization: Gray Research LLC Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 04.21.a1.6d X-Server-Date: 13 Jan 2002 19:47:45 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:13164 "Falk Brunner" wrote in message news:a1s7kv$sgjph$1@ID-84877.news.dfncis.de... > www.fpgacpu.org Thanks. There's also an associated mailing list of ~390 people, see http://groups.yahoo.com/group/fpga-cpu/ -- "This list is for discussion of the design and implementation of field-programmable gate array based processors and integrated systems. It is also for discussion and community support of the XSOC Project (see http://www.fpgacpu.org/xsoc). " Jan Gray Gray Research LLC ###### Message-ID: <3C41EE7C.7F33@designtools.co.nz> From: Jim Granville Reply-To: jim.granville@designtools.co.nz Organization: Mandeno Granville elect X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Homebrew computers using FPGA? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:30:52 +1300 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.79.98.42 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tsnz.net X-Trace: news02.tsnz.net 1010956792 203.79.98.42 (Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:19:52 NZDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 10:19:52 NZDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news02.tsnz.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:13193 David Findlay wrote: > > Is it possible to build a homebrew computer of some description using FPGA's? I know it won't be > as powerful as a PC, but I'm more interested in designing and building my own. > > Also does anyone know of an FPGA simulator for Linux? Thanks, I've been told the Altera NIOS soft core can boot (some flavour of) linux, (from a CD ROM Drive), so browse their info. Xilinx will be chasing the same targets with their MicroBlaze offering. -jg ###### From: David Findlay Subject: Re: Homebrew computers using FPGA? Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Organization: Davsoft Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Pan/0.11.1 (Unix) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Comment-To: "cn99" Lines: 11 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:54:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 144.137.139.215 X-Complaints-To: news@bigpond.net.au X-Trace: news-server.bigpond.net.au 1010958867 144.137.139.215 (Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:54:27 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 08:54:27 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!intgwlon.nntp.telstra.net!news-server.bigpond.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:13194 On Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:44:43 +1000, cn99 wrote: > I'm afraid that kind of computer is only appropriate for special use, e.g. a webserver with > very limited ability. Besides, a FPGA-based computer won't reach as high frequecy as required > by many applications. Well what I'd hope to be doing is creating a simple computer, but with specialised logic sections to speed up certain operations that take a while on conventional processors. So I suppose although it wouldn't be as fast on some functions, it could be much faster on others. I'm after preformance on complex simulations so physics logic would be useful. David ###### From: "Peter Ormsby" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga References: Subject: Re: Homebrew computers using FPGA? Lines: 27 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 06:15:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.41.9.224 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.mn.mediaone.net 1010988917 66.41.9.224 (Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:15:17 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 00:15:17 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!xmission!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!cyclone.rdc-detw.rr.com!news.mw.mediaone.net!typhoon.mn.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:13214 David Findlay wrote in message news:pan.2002.01.14.07.54.25.119281.7489@yahoo.com.au... > Well what I'd hope to be doing is creating a simple computer, but with specialised logic > sections to speed up certain operations that take a while on conventional processors. So I > suppose although it wouldn't be as fast on some functions, it could be much faster on others. > I'm after preformance on complex simulations so physics logic would be useful. > > David David, One thing I didn't mention about Altera's Nios processor in my last posting: the latest incarnation allows you to add custom instructions to the processor core. It's all integrated into the tool flow so it looks relatively painless (although I haven't used the custom instructions myself, so I can't speak from first-hand experience). Here's the web link: http://www.altera.com/products/devices/excalibur/features/exc-nios_cpu_archi tecture.html#custom_instructions -Pete- ###### From: David Findlay Subject: Re: Homebrew computers using FPGA? Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Organization: Davsoft Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Pan/0.11.1 (Unix) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Comment-To: "Peter Ormsby" Lines: 25 Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:14:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 144.137.141.25 X-Complaints-To: news@bigpond.net.au X-Trace: news-server.bigpond.net.au 1011010486 144.137.141.25 (Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:14:46 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:14:46 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!news-server.bigpond.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:13207 On Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:15:17 +1000, Peter Ormsby wrote: > David Findlay wrote in message > news:pan.2002.01.14.07.54.25.119281.7489@yahoo.com.au... >> Well what I'd hope to be doing is creating a simple computer, but with > specialised logic >> sections to speed up certain operations that take a while on conventional > processors. So I >> suppose although it wouldn't be as fast on some functions, it could be > much faster on others. >> I'm after preformance on complex simulations so physics logic would be > useful. >> >> David > > David, > > One thing I didn't mention about Altera's Nios processor in my last posting: the latest > incarnation allows you to add custom instructions to the processor core. It's all integrated > into the tool flow so it looks relatively painless (although I haven't used the custom > instructions myself, so I can't speak from first-hand experience). Here's the web link: Sounds cool. Thanks, David ###### From: andy.ray1@btopenworld.com (Andy Ray) Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Homebrew computers using FPGA? Date: 14 Jan 2002 12:15:53 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 47 Message-ID: <8443dafc.0201141215.4c50dab3@posting.google.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.122.247.108 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1011039353 17467 127.0.0.1 (14 Jan 2002 20:15:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Jan 2002 20:15:53 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!falcon.america.net!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:13227 "Peter Ormsby" wrote in message news:... > David, > > Putting processors in FPGAs is becoming more common all the time. Actually, > creating the processor is the easy part of making a useable > microprocessor/microcontroller system. It's creating the 'C' > compilers/linkers and the Debuggers and the OSes and the development > environments that are really the trick. However, having someone create a > processor in a FPGA has got to be one of the best ways to teach a person > about computer architectures. > > Just as an example of how far some of the FPGA-specific processors have > gotten is to look at the Nios processor from Altera and the Microblaze from > Xilinx. I can't speak to the Microblaze much since I haven't seen anything > other than marketing stuff, but the Nios processor has quite a collection of > the support tools. In addition to the "free" (comes with the kit) GNU Pro > compiler/linker/debugger, there's a bunch of third-part stuff like the > Arriba (Viosoft) IDE, the Nucleus Plus (ATI) and Kros (Shugyo) RTOS. > There's even a version of Linux (Microtronix's uCLinux distro) that runs on > Nios as well as TCP/IP stacks and a web server application that come with > Altera's Ethernet Development Kit. > > Anyway, if you don't need Pentium/Athlon type performance, FPGAs really are > a viable platform for computing. Check out the Nios information here... > > http://www.altera.com/products/devices/excalibur/exc-nios_index.html > > -Pete- > > David Findlay wrote in message > news:pan.2002.01.13.20.44.34.131584.2125@yahoo.com.au... > > Is it possible to build a homebrew computer of some description using > FPGA's? I know it won't be > > as powerful as a PC, but I'm more interested in designing and building my > own. Also does anyone > > know of an FPGA simulator for Linux? Thanks, > > > > David Or how about the LEON SPARC clone? http://www.gaisler.com/ It wont have the performance of the Altera or Xilinx softcores but it is free, well supported and provides an implementation of the AMBA bus for high speed peripherals. I'll bet the compiler tools are better than the Altera/Xilinx ones as well... ###### Message-ID: <3C4417B9.BFF796D4@unibwm.de> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:51:21 +0100 From: Herbert Kleebauer X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Homebrew computers using FPGA? References: <3C41B214.7000701@junkmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: pc1510b.informatik.unibw-muenchen.de X-Trace: 15 Jan 2002 12:51:00 +0100, pc1510b.informatik.unibw-muenchen.de Lines: 51 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!lrz.de!news.unibw-muenchen.de!pc1510b.informatik.unibw-muenchen.de Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:13228 Duane Clark wrote: > > David Findlay wrote: > > Is it possible to build a homebrew computer of some description > > using FPGA's? I know it won't be as powerful as a PC, but I'm more > > interested in designing and building my own. > > Sure. For example, here is a Sparc on an FPGA: > http://www.estec.esa.nl/wsmwww/leon/ We have a laboratory course at our university, in which students develop a 16-bit processor, using one XILINX FPGA (using WORKVIEW CAD-Software): - 128 kByte memory-address - 128 kByte i/o-address - 5 Interrupt levels - 3-address instructions - 0.3 MIPS - less than 2000 gate-functions Two students have built a complete computer using this prozessor: 1. FPGA: processor 2. FPGA: graphics controller: 640x400 pixels, 2 pages, 2 colors out of 8 3. FPGA: - SCSI controller - Keyboard controller - Timer 4. FPGA: - parallel interface - seriell interface Multi-tasking operating system (also multiple shells can be startet) The computer is built using only these 4 XILINX FPGA, static ram and rom chips and line drivers. The only other components used were the hard-disk, floppy-disk-drive, power supply, keyboard and monitor). We have also made a redesign of the CPU with a memory management included (16 MByte virtual address space for each task, protection mechanism for multitasking). This CPU supports DRAM instead of SRAM. The documentation and software can be downloaded from: ftp://137.193.64.130/pub/xproz/ There is also a very simple 16-bit processor mproz buildt with only 65 FF's and about 250 gates: ftp://137.193.64.130/pub/mproz/ ###### Message-ID: <3C5319E7.B65EC78D@free.fr> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 22:04:39 +0100 From: Franck Pissotte Reply-To: franck.pissotte@online.fr Organization: http://www.pascaland.org/ compilers,sources,links for pascal delphi X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [fr] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Homebrew computers using FPGA? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jan 2002 13:35:11 MET NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.147.137.149 X-Trace: 1012134911 news2-1.free.fr 4609 62.147.137.149 X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!teaser.fr!noos.fr!proxad.net!feeder2-1.proxad.net!news2-1.free.fr!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:13868 cn99 a écrit : > I'm afraid that kind of computer is only appropriate for special use, e.g. a > webserver with very limited ability. Besides, a FPGA-based computer won't > reach as high frequecy as required by many applications. do you mean that a real 1MHz 6502 or 8 Mhz 8051 is faster than a design implemented in a 20 mHz FPGA? -- http://www.pascaland.org/ compilateurs, sources et liens langage pascal, delphi http://franck.pissotte.free.fr/ mon vide grenier: vieux materiels, logiciels, livres et revues ###### Message-ID: <3C531C98.821F5591@free.fr> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 22:16:08 +0100 From: Franck Pissotte Reply-To: franck.pissotte@online.fr Organization: http://www.pascaland.org/ compilers,sources,links for pascal delphi X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [fr] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: fr MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Homebrew computers using FPGA? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jan 2002 13:35:12 MET NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.147.137.149 X-Trace: 1012134912 news2-1.free.fr 4609 62.147.137.149 X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!opentransit.net!wanadoo.fr!proxad.net!feeder2-1.proxad.net!news2-1.free.fr!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:13855 David Findlay a écrit : > Is it possible to build a homebrew computer of some description using FPGA's? I know it won't be > as powerful as a PC, but I'm more interested in designing and building my own. Also does anyone > know of an FPGA simulator for Linux? Thanks, i have the same interest. if you find some ressource please post here. evaluation board seem expensive. for 100$ digilent seem good but with shipping, curstoms tax and money order (i am in france) it will cost 50$ more. and even in Paris fpga are not sold in shops. i am looking for a free design DIY FPGA board. should use a PLCC84, use standard part i have in my box or buy at low price, and have free software running on win98. any url? thanks -- http://www.pascaland.org/ compilateurs, sources et liens langage pascal, delphi http://franck.pissotte.free.fr/ mon vide grenier: vieux materiels, logiciels, livres et revues ###### Reply-To: "Rob Finch" From: "Rob Finch" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga References: <3C531C98.821F5591@free.fr> Subject: Re: Homebrew computers using FPGA? Lines: 46 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 02:29:51 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.93.121.19 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1012208859 65.93.121.19 (Mon, 28 Jan 2002 04:07:39 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 04:07:39 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!opentransit.net!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:13775 You can build a pretty decent homebrew computer in an FPGA much faster and more powerful than an older microprocessor like the 6502 or 8088. Simple RISC architectures seem to match the FPGA architecture better than CISC. Have a look at www.fpgacpu.org Keep in mind that if you homebrew a cpu it's a lot of work ! You have to come up with development tools (assembler, compiler, etc) If you'd like to see a work in progress, I'm currently working on a 32 bit cpu that's "almost" working at 25 MHz. Compared to say a 25 MHz 486 it's probably much faster. www.birdcomputer.ca You can reach a pretty decent clock rate in an FPGA, 50 MHz+ is certainly obtainable and more than adequate for many applications. Rob "Franck Pissotte" wrote in message news:3C531C98.821F5591@free.fr... > David Findlay a écrit : > > > Is it possible to build a homebrew computer of some description using FPGA's? I know it won't be > > as powerful as a PC, but I'm more interested in designing and building my own. Also does anyone > > know of an FPGA simulator for Linux? Thanks, > > i have the same interest. > if you find some ressource please post here. > evaluation board seem expensive. > for 100$ digilent seem good > but with shipping, curstoms tax and money order > (i am in france) it will cost 50$ more. > and even in Paris fpga are not sold in shops. > > i am looking for a free design DIY FPGA board. > should use a PLCC84, use standard part i have > in my box or buy at low price, > and have free software running on win98. > any url? thanks > -- > http://www.pascaland.org/ compilateurs, sources et liens langage pascal, delphi > http://franck.pissotte.free.fr/ mon vide grenier: vieux materiels, logiciels, livres et revues > > ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Homebrew computers using FPGA? References: <3C5319E7.B65EC78D@free.fr> Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 28 Jan 2002 15:07:08 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 13 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 28 Jan 2002 15:21:33 -0800, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.kjsl.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:13785 Franck Pissotte writes: > do you mean that a real 1MHz 6502 or 8 Mhz 8051 is faster > than a design implemented in a 20 mHz FPGA? Yes, those 20 mHz FPGAs are really slow! I didn't even think they still offered speed grades that slow. Actually, in my cycle-accurate 6502 design (work in progress), the data path synthesizes with a maximum clock of over 30 MHz in an XC2S200-5, with no manual placement. The control is only perhaps 50% complete, but it looks like it won't be in the critical path.