From: "Anthony Ellis" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Soldering Ceramic BGA's Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 11:17:27 +0200 Lines: 20 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 NNTP-Posting-Host: pta-dial-196-31-190-112.mweb.co.za Message-ID: <3b594878.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Trace: 21 Jul 2001 11:16:40 +0200, pta-dial-196-31-190-112.mweb.co.za Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!iafrica.com!news1.mweb.co.za!pta-dial-196-31-190-112.mweb.co.za Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:8353 This is not an FPGA question but I guess many of you may have designed FPGA's using similar technology and work for companies that have some advice to part with. We have a PCB designed for a 255 pin Ceramic BGA and are struggling to solder this correctly. Plastic BGA's are not an issue however. Obviously the ceramic absorbs the reflow energy but we haven't been able to find the correct technique to pre-heat the part. I guess we could measure the pre-heated component temperature if we had some idea about it's required value. Any help please. Thanks Anthony ###### From: cjwang_1225@hotmail.com (chris) Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Soldering Ceramic BGA's Date: 21 Jul 2001 13:35:46 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 7 Message-ID: <24a13eb0.0107211235.4bf2299d@posting.google.com> References: <3b594878.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.127.235.130 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 995747746 30075 127.0.0.1 (21 Jul 2001 20:35:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-support@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jul 2001 20:35:46 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:8458 usually, you need special equipment for soldering BGAs such as the A.P.E. hot air reflow system. you can set the temperature and pre-heat the board as well. also, if you mess up on soldering an fpga, you can re-ball the bga by buying a re-ball kit. i forget the name of the manufacturer that has it, but i am sure a simple search on a meta-search engine can find it. chris ###### From: "Kevin Neilson" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga References: <3b594878.0@news1.mweb.co.za> Subject: Re: Soldering Ceramic BGA's Lines: 35 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:35:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.245.14.162 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 995909709 209.245.14.162 (Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:35:09 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:35:09 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:32:45 PDT (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:8385 Back in the day, when I had to do a lot of soldering, I soldered BGAs without a lot of specialized equipment. I would set the BGA down where it was supposed to go, and then superglue a "corral" of SMT resistors around it so it wouldn't be able to move during reflow. Then I would blast it with one of those big red hot air guns that look like hair dryers until the solder melted. There was no subtle technique and no need to pre-heat. "Anthony Ellis" wrote in message news:3b594878.0@news1.mweb.co.za... > This is not an FPGA question but I guess many of you may have designed > FPGA's using similar technology and work for companies that have some advice > to part with. > > We have a PCB designed for a 255 pin Ceramic BGA and are struggling to > solder this correctly. Plastic BGA's are not an issue however. > Obviously the ceramic absorbs the reflow energy but we haven't been able to > find the correct technique to pre-heat the part. I guess we could measure > the pre-heated component temperature if we had some idea about it's required > value. > > Any help please. > > Thanks Anthony > > > > > > > ###### From: cyber_spook Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Soldering Ceramic BGA's Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:03:00 +0100 Organization: Netscape Online member Lines: 35 Message-ID: <3B5C9104.D1230FDB@cyberspook.freeserve.co.uk> References: <3b594878.0@news1.mweb.co.za> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-121.crow.dialup.pol.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk 995922411 5554 62.137.120.121 (23 Jul 2001 21:06:51 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jul 2001 21:06:51 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:8465 Good Luck is all I can say - these can be a real pain in the... But find a board builder with experance to place your part (recommendation - so you can kick them when it don't work) However I found the folloing help full. Keep the part towards the center of the board, Don't flood fill too think or unless you realy need to (this will all pull heat away). Now this I cant remember - somthing to do with the pad, you get copper or pre solderd ones if I remember. I think the copper ones were better? Get your stuff X-rayed and JTAGed afterwords - At this point its realy worth rembering that complex designs can be a lot easyer to fault find with lots of boudary scan devices on your board. We found corner pins the biggest problem, would not flow or cracked during the cool down. I the end we payed someone that knowns what they are doing - cost a lot less that our own labour and time. Cyber_Spook_Man Anthony Ellis wrote: > This is not an FPGA question but I guess many of you may have designed > FPGA's using similar technology and work for companies that have some advice > to part with. > > We have a PCB designed for a 255 pin Ceramic BGA and are struggling to > solder this correctly. Plastic BGA's are not an issue however. > Obviously the ceramic absorbs the reflow energy but we haven't been able to > find the correct technique to pre-heat the part. I guess we could measure > the pre-heated component temperature if we had some idea about it's required > value. > > Any help please. > > Thanks Anthony ###### Message-ID: <3B5D7033.1A8DB2F8@andraka.com> From: Ray Andraka Organization: Andraka Consulting Group, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Soldering Ceramic BGA's References: <3b594878.0@news1.mweb.co.za> <3B5C9104.D1230FDB@cyberspook.freeserve.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 47 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 12:54:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.13.238.93 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.wwck1.ri.home.com 995979248 24.13.238.93 (Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:54:08 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 05:54:08 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news1.wwck1.ri.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:8351 You can also get a BGA to PGA adapter and have the part mounted on the adapter by a shop that has the equipment to do it right. One of my customers did that a while back, I think he said it cost him around $50 to do. cyber_spook wrote: > Good Luck is all I can say - these can be a real pain in the... But find a board > builder with experance to place your part (recommendation - so you can kick them > when it don't work) However I found the folloing help full. Keep the part > towards the center of the board, Don't flood fill too think or unless you realy > need to (this will all pull heat away). Now this I cant remember - somthing to > do with the pad, you get copper or pre solderd ones if I remember. I think the > copper ones were better? Get your stuff X-rayed and JTAGed afterwords - At this > point its realy worth rembering that complex designs can be a lot easyer to > fault find with lots of boudary scan devices on your board. We found corner pins > the biggest problem, would not flow or cracked during the cool down. > > I the end we payed someone that knowns what they are doing - cost a lot less > that our own labour and time. > > Cyber_Spook_Man > > Anthony Ellis wrote: > > > This is not an FPGA question but I guess many of you may have designed > > FPGA's using similar technology and work for companies that have some advice > > to part with. > > > > We have a PCB designed for a 255 pin Ceramic BGA and are struggling to > > solder this correctly. Plastic BGA's are not an issue however. > > Obviously the ceramic absorbs the reflow energy but we haven't been able to > > find the correct technique to pre-heat the part. I guess we could measure > > the pre-heated component temperature if we had some idea about it's required > > value. > > > > Any help please. > > > > Thanks Anthony -- -Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 email ray@andraka.com http://www.andraka.com ###### From: edlee@gpetech.com (Edward) Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Soldering Ceramic BGA's Message-ID: <3b5dc191.413691747@news.bctel.net> References: <3b594878.0@news1.mweb.co.za> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 40 Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 18:50:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.181.56.181 X-Complaints-To: news@bctel.net X-Trace: news.bc.tac.net 996000233 208.181.56.181 (Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:43:53 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 11:43:53 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed.bc.tac.net!news.bc.tac.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:8387 Unfortunately, this is not a task that can be done in-house without the proper equipment. You will need a small reflow oven which is temperature controlled. Then just program in the reflow temperature profile that is specified by the BGA manufacturer. In addition, you also need to position the BGA precisely on the solder pads. An alternative is to send the BGA mounting job out to professional assembly shops and have them x-ray'ed afterwards for the first run. In this way, you'll save a lot of headache trying to debug your firmware on a defective or partially defective board. Edward Richmond, B.C. Canada On Sat, 21 Jul 2001 11:17:27 +0200, "Anthony Ellis" wrote: >This is not an FPGA question but I guess many of you may have designed >FPGA's using similar technology and work for companies that have some advice >to part with. > >We have a PCB designed for a 255 pin Ceramic BGA and are struggling to >solder this correctly. Plastic BGA's are not an issue however. >Obviously the ceramic absorbs the reflow energy but we haven't been able to >find the correct technique to pre-heat the part. I guess we could measure >the pre-heated component temperature if we had some idea about it's required >value. > >Any help please. > >Thanks Anthony > > > > > >