From: longwayhome@my-deja.com Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Xess - XS40-005XL question Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:22:32 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 16 Message-ID: <8vumqu$e52$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.140.123.106 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Nov 27 22:22:32 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.05 [en] (Win95; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x60.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 212.140.123.106 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDlongwayhome Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!xfer10.netnews.com!netnews.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:2940 Hi I'm finally going to bite the bullet and buy a board - just want to double check that my final selection is ok for what i want to do. Is a XS40-005XL ( http://www.xess.com/prod004.html ) board suitable for hardware evolution, has anyone actually used it for that purpose ? I'd like to be able to program it with a C or Java API, is there suitable for that ? All suggestions welcome. Thanks David Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: "Akito" <..@no.com> Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga References: <8vumqu$e52$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: Xess - XS40-005XL question Lines: 6 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 02:47:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.29.144.77 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 975379673 63.29.144.77 (Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:47:53 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2000 18:47:53 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:2943 Unless im mistaken, (considering I own one of these boards.) You dont map out the FPGA with C or Java, you use Xilinx Foundation. ###### From: Jonas Thor Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Xess - XS40-005XL question Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 07:06:35 +0100 Organization: Telenordia Lines: 11 Message-ID: <9ri62tods9hbob7v570avd412a6gtg9jeu@4ax.com> References: <8vumqu$e52$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: sdu13-225.ppp.algonet.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: cubacola.tninet.se 975391242 8765 195.163.225.13 (28 Nov 2000 06:00:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@algo.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Nov 2000 06:00:42 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!algonet!pepsi.tninet.se!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:2951 On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:22:32 GMT, longwayhome@my-deja.com wrote: >Is a XS40-005XL ( http://www.xess.com/prod004.html ) board suitable for >hardware evolution, has anyone actually used it for that purpose ? I'd >like to be able to program it with a C or Java API, is there suitable >for that ? All suggestions welcome. I supposed you have noticed that there is a JBITs interface avaiable for that board? You can download it from XESS 'examples' web page. / Jonas ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Xess - XS40-005XL question Date: 29 Nov 2000 02:05:29 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 47 Message-ID: <6uk89nh9k6.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <8vumqu$e52$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9ri62tods9hbob7v570avd412a6gtg9jeu@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 975459929 1194 10.0.3.2 (29 Nov 2000 01:05:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Nov 2000 01:05:29 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:2955 Jonas Thor writes: > On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:22:32 GMT, longwayhome@my-deja.com wrote: > > >Is a XS40-005XL ( http://www.xess.com/prod004.html ) board suitable for > >hardware evolution, has anyone actually used it for that purpose ? What do you exactly mean with "hardware evolution". Improving hardware for some project? Or are you trying to used genetic algorithms to generate FPGA configurations? Or using FPGAs as co-processors to compute GAs for something else? Or? Perhaps if you tried to describe what you are trying to do, people here could help you in selecting. > >like to be able to program it with a C or Java API, is there suitable > >for that ? All suggestions welcome. Usual thing for programming FPGAs seems to be VHDL or Verilog. C: exists as Algorithm->FPGA (Handel-C, commercial) which is a sneered on method around here, and as C++ instantiate FPGA elements (CNets, open source, but still at beginning of development). Java: Xilinx has their JBits API/library, which is a low level (direct bitstrem manipulation) tool. But this only works with Virtex, not XC4000 nor VirtexE, according to jbits@xilinx.com. That would need the Xess XSV boards, not XS40 boards. I will be installing JBits tomorrow, now that I have recovered from the server HD trashed a week ago. > I supposed you have noticed that there is a JBITs interface avaiable > for that board? You can download it from XESS 'examples' web page. JBits for the XS40? Xilinx says JBits is not for XC4000 (it once was, but this support has been dropped). Hmmm, I just went to http://www.xess.com/ho03000.html (Example Designs). There are Jbits XHWIF for XS40-005XL and XSV-100. Does Xilinx not even know its own software? Looks like tomorrow is going to be interesting. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: "Nick Bruty" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga References: <8vumqu$e52$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: Xess - XS40-005XL question Lines: 29 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:51:03 -0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.40.63.145 X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynet.net X-Trace: monolith.news.easynet.net 975448422 195.40.63.145 (Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:53:42 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 21:53:42 GMT Organization: [posted via Easynet] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!easynet-uk!easynet.net!monolith.news.easynet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:3000 Nios a great solution for those wanting a 32bit RISC processor and competes well on speed and cost, have you seen the Altera Nios dev kit, it sells for under $1000 complete with software and hardware and comes ready for you to start running C code on. One cool bit of kit. Nick wrote in message news:8vumqu$e52$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > Hi > I'm finally going to bite the bullet and buy a board - just want to > double check that my final selection is ok for what i want to do. > > Is a XS40-005XL ( http://www.xess.com/prod004.html ) board suitable for > hardware evolution, has anyone actually used it for that purpose ? I'd > like to be able to program it with a C or Java API, is there suitable > for that ? All suggestions welcome. > > Thanks > > David > > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. ###### From: longwayhome@my-deja.com Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Xess - XS40-005XL question Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 09:44:22 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 37 Message-ID: <902j5l$h6k$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <8vumqu$e52$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9ri62tods9hbob7v570avd412a6gtg9jeu@4ax.com> <6uk89nh9k6.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.13.79.185 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Nov 29 09:44:22 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x52.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 195.13.79.185 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDlongwayhome Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!news.iif.hu!news.tele.dk!205.231.236.10!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:2967 In article <6uk89nh9k6.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin wrote: > Jonas Thor writes: > > > On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:22:32 GMT, longwayhome@my-deja.com wrote: > > > > >Is a XS40-005XL ( http://www.xess.com/prod004.html ) board suitable for > > >hardware evolution, has anyone actually used it for that purpose ? > > What do you exactly mean with "hardware evolution". Improving hardware > for some project? Or are you trying to used genetic algorithms to > generate FPGA configurations? Or using FPGAs as co-processors to > compute GAs for something else? Or? > > Perhaps if you tried to describe what you are trying to do, people > here could help you in selecting. What i'm wanting to do is (i suppose) the 'genetic algoriths to generate FPGA configurations' which i want to try to use in the same way that i read in http://www.newscientist.com/nsplus/insight/ai/primordial.html since it seems like a very interesting subject to learn about (and i want to try using it for a very cunning idea i have :) Suggestions about existing setups used by people for similar things would be great, I agree (but I posted a few weeks back asking pretty much for that kind of info and didn't really get many replies of "I use board X" variety (in fact none iirc)) Thanks David Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Xess - XS40-005XL question Date: 29 Nov 2000 22:59:05 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 75 Message-ID: <6uy9y2l9sm.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <8vumqu$e52$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9ri62tods9hbob7v570avd412a6gtg9jeu@4ax.com> <6uk89nh9k6.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <902j5l$h6k$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 975535145 2890 10.0.3.2 (29 Nov 2000 21:59:05 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Nov 2000 21:59:05 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:3004 longwayhome@my-deja.com writes: > In article <6uk89nh9k6.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, > Neil Franklin wrote: > > Jonas Thor writes: > > > > > On Mon, 27 Nov 2000 22:22:32 GMT, longwayhome@my-deja.com wrote: > > > > > > >Is a XS40-005XL ( http://www.xess.com/prod004.html ) board > suitable for > > > >hardware evolution, has anyone actually used it for that purpose ? > > > > What do you exactly mean with "hardware evolution". Improving hardware > > for some project? Or are you trying to used genetic algorithms to > > generate FPGA configurations? Or using FPGAs as co-processors to > > compute GAs for something else? Or? > > > > Perhaps if you tried to describe what you are trying to do, people > > here could help you in selecting. > > What i'm wanting to do is (i suppose) the 'genetic algoriths to > generate FPGA configurations' OK. > would be great, I agree (but I posted a few weeks back asking pretty > much for that kind of info and didn't really get many replies of "I use > board X" variety (in fact none iirc)) Most likely because no one else is doing genetic algorithms. But this time your timing was more lucky. I just today installed the JBits software from Xilinx and on its intro page about what tools are in the package I saw this bit: ------------ GeneticFPGA, is a Java-based tool for evolving circuits on Xilinx Virtex FPGAs or on the JBits Device Simulator. Using an evolutionary algorithm, the system mutates a bitstream to create a circuit. The user specifies a fitness function that measures how well the circuit performs, along with some stimulus and expected output. The system mutates the bitstream to reduce the error between the actual output and the expected output. The design process is a bit non-traditional. Whereas a designer typically creates a circuit by assembling known structures, here a designer specifies desired behavior and lets the system construct the solution. ----------- So that may be what you are looking for. To get the JBits software (no download from their web page) send a mail to: jbits@xilinx.com, they then send you back an URL and password. It is free of cost, no NDA or anything. Is written in Java, I have installed it on Linux (which they do no support for, but say it works and other customers use it). JBits has an software simulator DeviceSimulator to experiment on. To then run JBits generated bitfiles on actual hardware you will need an Virtex based board, either the XSV from Xess (www.xess.com), or something like the V240 from APS (www.associatedpro.com), the WV-300 from VCC (www.vcc.com) is also Virtex based. The XS40 (any version of it) will NOT do, as that is XC4000 based. Note that the null*.bits files included in JBits only support XCV300, XCV800 and XCV1000 chips, for others you will need to get an null*.bits file by some other means. Both Xess and APS offer XCV300 and XCV800 variants, and I am not cash limited, so not being able to use the cheaper XCV50/100/150/200 chips is no problem for me. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: Phil James-Roxby Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Xess - XS40-005XL question Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2000 08:34:33 -0700 Organization: Xilinx, Inc. Lines: 29 Message-ID: <3A2BB989.24EED3A6@xilinx.com> References: <8vumqu$e52$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9ri62tods9hbob7v570avd412a6gtg9jeu@4ax.com> <6uk89nh9k6.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 149.199.185.56 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!NetNews1!attla1!attla2!ip.att.net!newsgate.xilinx.com!xbc-news.xilinx.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:3090 Neil Franklin wrote: > JBits for the XS40? Xilinx says JBits is not for XC4000 (it once was, > but this support has been dropped). > > Hmmm, I just went to http://www.xess.com/ho03000.html (Example Designs). > There are Jbits XHWIF for XS40-005XL and XSV-100. Does Xilinx not even > know its own software? Looks like tomorrow is going to be interesting. These examples of XHWIF ports are written by Gordon Hollingworth from the University of York, England. They are nothing to do with Xilinx, though they do use the architecture independent XHWIF interface from Xilinx. And as far as I know, Gordon works on evolvable hardware for Virtex: the original poster should maybe talk to him for some more hints and tips. As you correctly point out, JBits for the 4k is no longer supported. But there still is a ton of software floating out there that uses this API. My advice would be to go Virtex, and use the latest (and greatest) version of JBits for any new projects. Phil -- --------------------------------------------------------------------- __ / /\/ Dr Phil James-Roxby Direct Dial: 303-544-5545 \ \ Staff Software Engineer Fax: Unreliable use email :-) / / Loki/DARPA Email: phil.james-roxby@xilinx.com \_\/\ Xilinx Boulder ---------------------------------------------------------------------