From: "Dan" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Are SpartanIIs in FG456 drop in replacements for Virtex FG456 Lines: 30 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 03:56:39 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.209.53.252 X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 969162999 216.209.53.252 (Sat, 16 Sep 2000 23:56:39 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2000 23:56:39 EDT Organization: Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news3.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:1295 The Spartan II has three sizes that come in the FG456 package: XC2S100-nFG456C XC2S150-nFG456C XC2S200-nFG456C The Spartan II has three sizes that come in the FG456 package: XCV100-nFG456C XCV150-nFG456C XCV200-nFG456C Are the footprints interchangable ??? The Spartans cost around $25-$45 The Virtex cost around $150-$300 I want to design a board with one of the Spartan FG456s (because of the cost issue) but they will not be in stock for months. Can I layout a PCB and stuff it with a Virtex for development ? I gave their pinouts a quick once over. They look the same but I need to be certain. Dan ###### From: "Michael Rhotert" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Are SpartanIIs in FG456 drop in replacements for Virtex FG456 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 17:40:37 +0200 Organization: T-Online Lines: 17 Message-ID: <8q2ona$gu5$11$1@news.t-online.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.t-online.com 969205290 11 17349 05032949505-0001 000917 15:41:30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@t-online.de X-Sender: 05032949505-0001@t-dialin.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsmm00.btx.dtag.de!t-online.de!news.t-online.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:1263 > I want to design a board with one of the Spartan FG456s (because of the cost > issue) but they will not be in stock for months. Can I layout a PCB and > stuff it with a Virtex for development ? I gave their pinouts a quick once > over. They look the same but I need to be certain. I'm planning to do the same in one of my projects. The only difference I found so far are the two temperature diode pins (virtex). Anyone else with more information? thanks Michael ###### From: rickman Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Are SpartanIIs in FG456 drop in replacements for Virtex FG456 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 15:17:37 -0400 Lines: 43 Message-ID: <39C518D1.E50F6006@yahoo.com> References: <8q2ona$gu5$11$1@news.t-online.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: vGoho+0N+xAJEK4n5rur7WyNUA3Kb0EM3i8CFAfq+uQ= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Sep 2000 19:17:06 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:1343 Michael Rhotert wrote: > > > I want to design a board with one of the Spartan FG456s (because of the > cost > > issue) but they will not be in stock for months. Can I layout a PCB and > > stuff it with a Virtex for development ? I gave their pinouts a quick once > > over. They look the same but I need to be certain. > > I'm planning to do the same in one of my projects. > The only difference I found so far are the two temperature diode pins > (virtex). > Anyone else with more information? > > thanks > Michael I believe it has been stated by Peter Alfke previously that this is the only difference in pinout. But you might want to confirm this through him. I am a little surprised that there is not an appnote discussing this. -- Rick Collins rick.collins@XYarius.com Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY removed. Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company Specializing in DSP and FPGA design Arius 4 King Ave Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7772 Voice 301-682-7666 FAX Internet URL http://www.arius.com ###### From: nweaver@boom.CS.Berkeley.EDU (Nicholas C. Weaver) Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Are SpartanIIs in FG456 drop in replacements for Virtex FG456 Date: 17 Sep 2000 19:21:51 GMT Organization: University of California, Berkeley Lines: 13 Message-ID: <8q35kf$5n0$1@agate.berkeley.edu> References: <8q2ona$gu5$11$1@news.t-online.com> <39C518D1.E50F6006@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: boom.cs.berkeley.edu X-Trace: agate.berkeley.edu 969218511 5856 128.32.131.183 (17 Sep 2000 19:21:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@berkeley.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Sep 2000 19:21:51 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!agate.berkeley.edu!agate!nweaver Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:1246 In article <39C518D1.E50F6006@yahoo.com>, rickman wrote: >I believe it has been stated by Peter Alfke previously that this is the >only difference in pinout. But you might want to confirm this through >him. I am a little surprised that there is not an appnote discussing >this. IIRC, it is that the temperature sensing diode pins are used instead for a suspend/sleep mode, but I'm not positive. Agreed, there should be a 1 page appnote on this. -- Nicholas C. Weaver nweaver@cs.berkeley.edu ###### From: "S. Ramirez" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga References: <8q2ona$gu5$11$1@news.t-online.com> <39C518D1.E50F6006@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Are SpartanIIs in FG456 drop in replacements for Virtex FG456 Lines: 71 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 00:17:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.199.32 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.tampabay.rr.com 969236257 24.129.199.32 (Sun, 17 Sep 2000 20:17:37 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 20:17:37 EDT Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!typhoon.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:1309 Rick, Excellent idea to have an app note discussing the differences so that Virtex savvy engineers can switch over quickly. There has been much discussion of this on this newsgroup, and I also think it's worthy of an app note in order to clarify most things that comes up. From what I understand, here are the differences: 1) temperature sensitive diodes missing on Spartan II 2) core (CLB) transistors are 0.18u on Spartan II and 0.25u on Virtex 3) Spartan IIs come in limited (read: cheapest) packaging 4) Spartan IIs are viperware as I write (no need for this to be in the app note) Are you listening, Xilinx? -Simon Ramirez, Consultant -Synchronous Design, Inc. Note: viperware (vïpêr·wär) n. something that will bite you if you design it in and don't have the parts in hand. "rickman" wrote in message news:39C518D1.E50F6006@yahoo.com... > Michael Rhotert wrote: > > > > > I want to design a board with one of the Spartan FG456s (because of the > > cost > > > issue) but they will not be in stock for months. Can I layout a PCB and > > > stuff it with a Virtex for development ? I gave their pinouts a quick once > > > over. They look the same but I need to be certain. > > > > I'm planning to do the same in one of my projects. > > The only difference I found so far are the two temperature diode pins > > (virtex). > > Anyone else with more information? > > > > thanks > > Michael > > I believe it has been stated by Peter Alfke previously that this is the > only difference in pinout. But you might want to confirm this through > him. I am a little surprised that there is not an appnote discussing > this. > > > -- > > Rick Collins > > rick.collins@XYarius.com > > Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY > removed. > > > > Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company > Specializing in DSP and FPGA design > > Arius > 4 King Ave > Frederick, MD 21701-3110 > 301-682-7772 Voice > 301-682-7666 FAX > > Internet URL http://www.arius.com > ###### From: korthner@hotmail.nospam.com (K. Orthner) Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Are SpartanIIs in FG456 drop in replacements for Virtex FG456 Date: 18 Sep 2000 02:38:54 GMT Organization: The Furukawa Electric Co.,Ltd. Hiratsuka works, Kanagawa, Japan Lines: 31 Message-ID: <8FB371401korthnerhotmailcom@158.202.232.7> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: dhcp237.inf.furukawa.co.jp User-Agent: Xnews/03.04.11 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.mesh.ad.jp!news.ksw.feedmania.org!nf1.xephion.ne.jp!fintnews!ifnews!inf-gw!postmaster Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:1277 daniel.deconinck@sympatico.ca (Dan) wrote: >The Spartan II has three sizes that come in the FG456 package: >The Spartan II has three sizes that come in the FG456 package: >Are the footprints interchangable ??? I asked this question of Xilinx support, and this was their answer: Hi Kent, There are actually some minor pinnout differences between the two: The Virtex DXN and DXP pins have been replaced w/ STARTUP and PWRDN pins in the Spartan-II. Those are the only differences. ** Note 1. The pin is called "STATUS", not "STARTUP" in the data sheet (DS001/03/03/2000). 2. /PWDN should be pulled high for normal operation. (So thereis a tiny PCB change). -Kent ###### From: rickman Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Are SpartanIIs in FG456 drop in replacements for Virtex FG456 Date: Sun, 17 Sep 2000 23:15:37 -0400 Lines: 53 Message-ID: <39C588D9.92EDCA9D@yahoo.com> References: <8q2ona$gu5$11$1@news.t-online.com> <39C518D1.E50F6006@yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: Bpre+sN1INsSiWlPmWWIijiLw/4ogLhHSLTfzH7pZVw= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Sep 2000 03:15:22 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; U) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!psiuk-p4!uknet!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!newsfeed.fast.net!howland.erols.net!outgoing.news.rcn.net.MISMATCH!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:1157 "S. Ramirez" wrote: > > Rick, > Excellent idea to have an app note discussing the differences so that > Virtex savvy engineers can switch over quickly. There has been much > discussion of this on this newsgroup, and I also think it's worthy of an app > note in order to clarify most things that comes up. From what I understand, > here are the differences: > 1) temperature sensitive diodes missing on Spartan II > 2) core (CLB) transistors are 0.18u on Spartan II and 0.25u on > Virtex > 3) Spartan IIs come in limited (read: cheapest) packaging > 4) Spartan IIs are viperware as I write (no need for this > to be in the app note) > Are you listening, Xilinx? > -Simon Ramirez, Consultant > -Synchronous Design, Inc. > > Note: viperware (vïpêr·wär) n. something that will bite you if you design > it in and don't have the parts in hand. I like the viperware definition. But I am not sure you have the transistor size thing right. If I understand it correctly, the semiconductor features are the same as Virtex so that the voltage does not need to be lowered. But the metal pitch is smaller to reduce die size. Not that this is an issue with using the part. I would bet that there are some differences in the internal design of the part. They may be small, but it would be worth an app note to clearly document them *all*! -- Rick Collins rick.collins@XYarius.com Ignore the reply address. To email me use the above address with the XY removed. Arius - A Signal Processing Solutions Company Specializing in DSP and FPGA design Arius 4 King Ave Frederick, MD 21701-3110 301-682-7772 Voice 301-682-7666 FAX Internet URL http://www.arius.com ###### Message-ID: <39C61BB5.F7EADFF3@andraka.com> From: Ray Andraka Organization: Andraka Consulting Group, Inc X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Are SpartanIIs in FG456 drop in replacements for Virtex FG456 References: <8FB371401korthnerhotmailcom@158.202.232.7> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 50 Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 13:43:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.13.238.93 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.wwck1.ri.home.com 969284630 24.13.238.93 (Mon, 18 Sep 2000 06:43:50 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2000 06:43:50 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news1.wwck1.ri.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:1200 "K. Orthner" wrote: > > daniel.deconinck@sympatico.ca (Dan) wrote: > >The Spartan II has three sizes that come in the FG456 package: > > >The Spartan II has three sizes that come in the FG456 package: > > >Are the footprints interchangable ??? > > I asked this question of Xilinx support, and this was their answer: > > > > Hi Kent, > There are actually some minor pinnout differences between the two: > > The Virtex DXN and DXP pins have been replaced w/ STARTUP and PWRDN pins in > the Spartan-II. > > Those are the only differences. > > > > ** Note > 1. The pin is called "STATUS", not "STARTUP" in the data sheet > (DS001/03/03/2000). > > 2. /PWDN should be pulled high for normal operation. (So thereis a tiny > PCB change). If you do your board design for SpartanII you can put the matching virtex in its place, as long as you don't use the powerdown feature. Note that in virtex, pulling up that pin has no effect on the temp diode. I've got one customer with his early boards populated with XCV50-4 FG256s and the later ones with XC2S50-5 FG256s. We purposely did the board to accept both. So far the only differences we have noted are the temp diode, which we don't use. Also the spartanII is a little faster than the virtex-4, and the cost is considerably less. We're loading the same bitstream into both parts. > > -Kent -- -Ray Andraka, P.E. President, the Andraka Consulting Group, Inc. 401/884-7930 Fax 401/884-7950 email ray@andraka.com http://www.andraka.com or http://www.fpga-guru.com ###### From: murray@pa.dec.com (Hal Murray) Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga Subject: Re: Are SpartanIIs in FG456 drop in replacements for Virtex FG456 Date: 18 Sep 2000 20:50:01 GMT Organization: Compaq Systems Research Center Lines: 8 Distribution: world Message-ID: <8q5v5p$dv8@src-news.pa.dec.com> References: <8q2ona$gu5$11$1@news.t-online.com> <39C518D1.E50F6006@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: quatre.pa.dec.com X-Newsreader: xrn 9.01 Originator: murray@quatre.pa.dec.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.ifi.unizh.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!newsgate.tandem.com!mailint03.im.hou.compaq.com!pa.dec.com!src.dec.com!murray Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:1249 [Slightly sorry for beating a dead horse.] If the pintouts were available in raw text, it would be simple to run diff on the two canidates and see the differences. -- These are my opinions, not necessarily my employers. I hate spam. ###### From: "S. Ramirez" Newsgroups: comp.arch.fpga References: <8q2ona$gu5$11$1@news.t-online.com> <39C518D1.E50F6006@yahoo.com> <8q5v5p$dv8@src-news.pa.dec.com> Subject: Re: Are SpartanIIs in FG456 drop in replacements for Virtex FG456 Lines: 23 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <6MHx5.2533$Ya2.518985@typhoon.tampabay.rr.com> Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 11:05:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.129.199.32 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.tampabay.rr.com 969361538 24.129.199.32 (Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:05:38 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2000 07:05:38 EDT Organization: RoadRunner - Central Florida Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone.tampabay.rr.com!typhoon.tampabay.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch comp.arch.fpga:1306 Of course, anyone can look at the printouts and analyze the differences. But what would be nice, as the thread has suggested/concluded, is to have everything in one easy location, i.e., an app note. Why search every nook and cranny of the Xilinx web site looking for every difference when it can be found in one document? -Simon Ramirez, Consultant Synchronous Design, Inc. This is my opinion, necessarily my employer. I also hate spam. "Hal Murray" wrote in message news:8q5v5p$dv8@src-news.pa.dec.com... > > [Slightly sorry for beating a dead horse.] > > If the pintouts were available in raw text, it would be > simple to run diff on the two canidates and see the differences. > > -- > These are my opinions, not necessarily my employers. I hate spam. >