From: "WarlockD" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Other OS's for the PDP-10? Lines: 8 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.238.10.24 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: sccrnsc01 1031866576 12.238.10.24 (Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:36:16 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:36:16 GMT Organization: AT&T Broadband Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 21:36:20 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-06!sn-xit-08!supernews.com!12.120.28.37.MISMATCH!attla2!ip.att.net!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!sccrnsc01.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11872 How about NetBSD? Though I know its running at 36 bits, is it possible to have some kind of 32 bit microcode for more compatibility, or would performance suffer? There a gcc C compiler for it? ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Other OS's for the PDP-10? Date: 12 Sep 2002 23:58:59 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 34 Message-ID: <6uadmmyin0.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1031867939 636 10.0.3.2 (12 Sep 2002 21:58:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Sep 2002 21:58:59 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11873 "WarlockD" writes: > How about NetBSD? Seems to be happening. > Though I know its running at 36 bits, is it possible to have some kind of 32 > bit microcode for more compatibility, or would performance suffer? a) Not all PDP-10s were microcoded (KA-10 and KI-10) b) Exchanging microcode for an other instruction set amounts to de-10-ing the 10. It is the specific 36bit instruction set that makes it a 10. Reusing the microengine for something else (AFAIK there was an IBM 360 done for the KL-10 microengine) is just an recycled 10, not an real 10 any more. OTOH taking an other microengine (say an Intel x86) and writing an microcode for the specific 36bit instruction set makes the result an 10, allthough not an genuine DEC one. > There a gcc C compiler for it? That is what NetBSD is using. Was originally ported for under TOPS-20. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Programmer, Archer, Roleplayer - Make your code truely free: put it into the public domain ###### From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Other OS's for the PDP-10? Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:00:26 -0700 Organization: Networks and Distributed Computing Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: shiva1.cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp1.u.washington.edu 1032206429 36714 (None) 140.142.17.37 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Content-Length: 314159 (believe this at your own risk) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!140.142.17.34.MISMATCH!news.u.washington.edu!shiva1.cac.washington.edu!mrc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11878 Personally, I see little use in running UNIX on a PDP-10. I recognize that it has hack value. However, most PDP-10s these days are microcoded on platforms that can run UNIX much more effectively in native mode. Even using klh10, an x86 CPU will run software 30+ times faster in native mode than as a PDP-10 (and that's damn good, since 100x is more typical). What is far more interesting is running software that can't be run on anything other than a PDP-10. Which brings me to my main point. It seems that TOPS-20 and ITS have been relatively well-preserved. At least a dozen TOPS-20 systems are in 24/7 production on the net today. The barrier against production ITS systems is not as much technical as political; the Internet is a much more hostile place today than it was then ITS systems roamed the each. But what about the other PDP-10 operating systems? We can say that Tenex effectively lives on TOPS-20. However, all we seem to have from TOPS-10 are the DEC distributions. The Internet version of TOPS-20 (CMU, Harvard, LLL, WPAFB) seems to have vanished from the earth. Even sadder, repeated inquiries about WAITS have turned up nothing. That was a truly unique and special environment. Most production work on ITS came to an end after the 1970s, but WAITS was actively used until 1991. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate. ###### From: Mark Crispin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Other OS's for the PDP-10? Date: Mon, 16 Sep 2002 13:17:29 -0700 Organization: Networks and Distributed Computing Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: shiva1.cac.washington.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nntp1.u.washington.edu 1032207452 17910 (None) 140.142.17.38 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu In-Reply-To: Content-Length: 314159 (believe this at your own risk) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!priapus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!newsfeed.news2me.com!canoe.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!140.142.17.34.MISMATCH!news.u.washington.edu!shiva1.cac.washington.edu!mrc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:11877 On Mon, 16 Sep 2002, Mark Crispin wrote: > The Internet version of TOPS-20 (CMU, Harvard, > LLL, WPAFB) seems to have vanished from the earth. Of course, I meant to say the Internet version of TOPS-10 [not TOPS-20] seems to have vanished from the earth. -- Mark -- http://staff.washington.edu/mrc Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.