From: Alan Greig Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Gordon Bell site Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:31:30 +0000 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 12 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-028.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanjose!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10370 Just saw a reference to this site in comp.arch and hadn't known it was there. Check out http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell and, in particular, http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/DECMuseum.htm which is the DEC cyberspace Museum. The history of Digital CD is online at http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/timeline/dechistory.htm -- Alan ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Date: Fri, 15 Feb 02 12:57:52 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 42 Message-ID: References: X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbsVA3GZZj2oANkjTBqLTDtRG8BCROltdBAzfVIbR201a2EmgBmH4GZ X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Feb 2002 15:11:58 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-98 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10348 In article , "John Smith" wrote: > >"Alan Greig" wrote in message >news:koqp6uclolvv3jevp4ok52sb4j96dofiav@4ax.com... >> Just saw a reference to this site in comp.arch and hadn't known it was >> there. >http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/timeline/dechistory.htm >> > >Interesting to reflect on the comparative values of the equipment each >company sold, and the relative amount of research that each undertook. > >Reminds me a lot of the book written by Harvard's Michael Porter, >'Competitive Strategy'. > >Comapq pursued the 'low-value high volume' model, whereas Digital followed >the 'low-volume high value model'. > >The only problem with the low-volume high-value model is that when you lose >a customer, it's hard to replace that customer. > >Compaq is more closely aligned with manufacturers of chewing gum...sell >something for a cent to millions of people and it doesn't matter if you >alienate and lose a few customers along the way...no real R&D costs, and >hundreds of thousands of new potential customers world-wide are being born >every day. Compare that to the gestation time of a company that's apt to >require real computing, or at least be prepared to pay for it. > >Call it the dumbing down of hardware. ....Or one might call it smart >management on Compaq's part at the time. But I honestly don't think that >Canion, et al. had much more on their minds than to sell more PC clones. The point I keep trying to make is that this short-range business approach is deterimental to the overall business and use of the computer as a tool in other areas. When users have to spend their time bitching about the tool, it is useless. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Date: Fri, 15 Feb 02 13:00:28 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZwx4FryRGMVr4ymo/2UMKU8Tqn+zPrFZGp5XV28VyjZokJWy1HtZro X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Feb 2002 15:14:33 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-98 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10349 In article , aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) wrote: >From article , by "John Smith" : >> >> >> Call it the dumbing down of hardware. > >Eric Smith calls it "the trumph of crapitalism" which also brings about the >problem where it is impossible to buy quality stuff any more because no one >was willing to pay for it. Nope. That's not the underlying problem. The problem is the assumption that a business is failing if it isn't growing at x%. You can't get seed money or capital outlay if you're not deemed as a "successful" business. It's a virus that nobody recognizes. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: "John Smith" Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 References: Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Lines: 34 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:36:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.102.125.6 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rogers.com X-Trace: news1.bloor.is 1013783782 24.102.125.6 (Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:36:22 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 09:36:22 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!freenix!skynet.be!skynet.be!teleglobe.net!teleglobe.net!teleglobe.net!66.185.86.143.MISMATCH!news03.bloor.is!news1.bloor.is.POSTED!12dc6cf53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10336 "Alan Greig" wrote in message news:koqp6uclolvv3jevp4ok52sb4j96dofiav@4ax.com... > Just saw a reference to this site in comp.arch and hadn't known it was > there. http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/timeline/dechistory.htm > Interesting to reflect on the comparative values of the equipment each company sold, and the relative amount of research that each undertook. Reminds me a lot of the book written by Harvard's Michael Porter, 'Competitive Strategy'. Comapq pursued the 'low-value high volume' model, whereas Digital followed the 'low-volume high value model'. The only problem with the low-volume high-value model is that when you lose a customer, it's hard to replace that customer. Compaq is more closely aligned with manufacturers of chewing gum...sell something for a cent to millions of people and it doesn't matter if you alienate and lose a few customers along the way...no real R&D costs, and hundreds of thousands of new potential customers world-wide are being born every day. Compare that to the gestation time of a company that's apt to require real computing, or at least be prepared to pay for it. Call it the dumbing down of hardware. ....Or one might call it smart management on Compaq's part at the time. But I honestly don't think that Canion, et al. had much more on their minds than to sell more PC clones. ###### From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Date: 15 Feb 2002 06:46:09 -0800 Organization: Spies In The Wire Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: spies.com X-Trace: 15 Feb 2002 06:48:03 -0800, spies.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!localhost!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10369 From article , by "John Smith" : > > > Call it the dumbing down of hardware. Eric Smith calls it "the trumph of crapitalism" which also brings about the problem where it is impossible to buy quality stuff any more because no one was willing to pay for it. ###### From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Date: 15 Feb 2002 15:49:15 GMT Organization: University of Scranton Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: bill@cs.scranton.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: triangle.cs.uofs.edu X-Trace: info.cs.uofs.edu 1013788155 49422 134.198.172.101 (15 Feb 2002 15:49:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cs.uofs.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Feb 2002 15:49:15 GMT X-Newsreader: xrn 9.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.news.qwest.net!diablo.cs.uofs.edu!info.cs.scranton.edu!triangle.cs.uofs.edu!bill Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10350 In article , aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) writes: |> From article , by "John Smith" : |> > |> > |> > Call it the dumbing down of hardware. |> |> Eric Smith calls it "the trumph of crapitalism" which also brings about the |> problem where it is impossible to buy quality stuff any more because no one |> was willing to pay for it. Which, of course, isn't true. I still get the periodic catalog with $5000 386's. Quality is still available to those who need it and are willing to pay for it. Just like you can still buy PDP-11's commerically if you have the need and the $$$. Now, if you were expecting to find DEC quality at Radio Shack for Woolworths prices, that's quite another story. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ###### From: "John Smith" Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 References: Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Lines: 18 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:57:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.102.125.6 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rogers.com X-Trace: news1.bloor.is 1013788637 24.102.125.6 (Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:57:17 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 10:57:17 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!ciril.fr!easynet-quince!easynet-melon!easynet.net!trev!teleglobe.net!teleglobe.net!teleglobe.net!66.185.86.143.MISMATCH!news03.bloor.is!news1.bloor.is.POSTED!12dc6cf53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10340 wrote in message news:a4j8kp$jkt$3@bob.news.rcn.net... > Nope. That's not the underlying problem. The problem is the > assumption that a business is failing if it isn't growing at > x%. You can't get seed money or capital outlay if you're not > deemed as a "successful" business. It's a virus that nobody > recognizes. > It's called a 'subsistence' business....hand-to-mouth corner store variety. To bad Compaq and HP shareholders don't have the full facts about the different sides of their respective businesses...about which one is truly the subsistence business and which one has substantive returns....Then again, management of both companies would probably hire Arthur Andersen to 'explain' it. ###### From: "Syltrem" Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 References: Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Lines: 23 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:50:30 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.46.84.130 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attcanada.ca X-Trace: tor-nn1.netcom.ca 1013799000 66.46.84.130 (Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:50:00 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:50:00 EDT Organization: AT&T Canada IES Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1.netcom.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10356 now how did this end up on a microsoft web site? -- Syltrem http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en français) To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address "Alan Greig" a écrit dans le message de news: koqp6uclolvv3jevp4ok52sb4j96dofiav@4ax.com... > > Just saw a reference to this site in comp.arch and hadn't known it was > there. Check out http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell and, in > particular, http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/DECMuseum.htm > which is the DEC cyberspace Museum. The history of Digital CD is > online at > http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/timeline/dechistory.htm > > > > -- > Alan ###### Message-ID: <3C6D59BA.197A983D@videotron.ca> From: JF Mezei X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 5 Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:56:06 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.202.148.20 X-Complaints-To: abuse@videotron.ca X-Trace: weber.videotron.net 1013799079 24.202.148.20 (Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:51:19 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:51:19 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!wesley.videotron.net!weber.videotron.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10337 Syltrem wrote: > > now how did this end up on a microsoft web site? Microsoft is in charge of rewriting history for its Encarta product. ###### From: "Syltrem" Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 References: <3C6D59BA.197A983D@videotron.ca> Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Lines: 18 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:11:19 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.46.84.130 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attcanada.ca X-Trace: tor-nn1.netcom.ca 1013800249 66.46.84.130 (Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:10:49 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 14:10:49 EDT Organization: AT&T Canada IES Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!24.226.1.12!feed.cgocable.net!feed.tor.primus.ca!feed.nntp.primus.ca!tor-nx1.netcom.ca!tor-nn1.netcom.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10354 The Redmond Marketing Company trying to boost their sales some more? M$ do better marketing than software. TGIF. -- Syltrem http://pages.infinit.net/syltrem (OpenVMS related web site - en français) To reply to myself directly, remove .spammenot from my address "JF Mezei" a écrit dans le message de news: 3C6D59BA.197A983D@videotron.ca... > Syltrem wrote: > > > > now how did this end up on a microsoft web site? > > Microsoft is in charge of rewriting history for its Encarta product. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Date: 15 Feb 2002 22:53:30 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 19 Message-ID: <6ug042pg2t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1013810015 407 10.0.3.2 (15 Feb 2002 21:53:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Feb 2002 21:53:35 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10371 "Syltrem" writes: [corrected wrongly quoted post] > "Alan Greig" a écrit dans le message de news: > koqp6uclolvv3jevp4ok52sb4j96dofiav@4ax.com... > > > > Just saw a reference to this site in comp.arch and hadn't known it was > > there. Check out http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell and, in > > now how did this end up on a microsoft web site? Because Gorden Bell works at Microsofts research division? -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Date: Sat, 16 Feb 02 10:03:12 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZo4XVs2WtalKjVW/k/bcFkmBA4NGje8l50+OuTZaoI6yyDb2Oqw7lq X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Feb 2002 12:17:28 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-42 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10385 In article , "John Smith" wrote: > > wrote in message news:a4j8kp$jkt$3@bob.news.rcn.net... >> Nope. That's not the underlying problem. The problem is the >> assumption that a business is failing if it isn't growing at >> x%. You can't get seed money or capital outlay if you're not >> deemed as a "successful" business. It's a virus that nobody >> recognizes. >> > >It's called a 'subsistence' business....hand-to-mouth corner store variety. It doesn't have to be. There are a lot of niche businesses that will never make the NYSE and the people involved in such businesses don't have that in their business plan. > >To bad Compaq and HP shareholders don't have the full facts about the >different sides of their respective businesses...about which one is truly >the subsistence business and which one has substantive returns....Then >again, management of both companies would probably hire Arthur Andersen to >'explain' it. They do have the information. What they use that information for is another issue. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Date: Sat, 16 Feb 02 10:05:22 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <6ug042pg2t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3C6D859E.A2A6FF05@jetnet.ab.ca> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbysh9tG1zdzehMHtCxZku8KZe2tGhpW/PqGRqVb1wOxy86N4KXLYgq X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Feb 2002 12:19:37 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-42 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10387 In article <3C6D859E.A2A6FF05@jetnet.ab.ca>, Ben Franchuk wrote: >Neil Franklin wrote: > >> Because Gorden Bell works at Microsofts research division? > >Mabie they need to move him to the Software division. He could be the >only one who knows how to fix bugs! That would fix Misoft. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Date: 15 Feb 2002 20:43:11 GMT Organization: University of Scranton Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: bill@cs.scranton.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: triangle.cs.uofs.edu X-Trace: info.cs.uofs.edu 1013805791 58532 134.198.172.101 (15 Feb 2002 20:43:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cs.uofs.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Feb 2002 20:43:11 GMT X-Newsreader: xrn 9.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.news.qwest.net!diablo.cs.uofs.edu!info.cs.scranton.edu!triangle.cs.uofs.edu!bill Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10388 In article , "Syltrem" writes: |> now how did this end up on a microsoft web site? Apparently, he works for the evil empire now. go figure.... bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ###### From: bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Date: 15 Feb 2002 20:50:52 GMT Organization: University of Scranton Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: bill@cs.scranton.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: triangle.cs.uofs.edu X-Trace: info.cs.uofs.edu 1013806252 58532 134.198.172.101 (15 Feb 2002 20:50:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cs.uofs.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Feb 2002 20:50:52 GMT X-Newsreader: xrn 9.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!diablo.cs.uofs.edu!info.cs.scranton.edu!triangle.cs.uofs.edu!bill Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10384 In article , Eric Smith writes: |> bill@triangle.cs.uofs.edu (Bill Gunshannon) writes: |> > Which, of course, isn't true. I still get the periodic catalog with |> > $5000 386's. Quality is still available to those who need it and are |> > willing to pay for it. |> |> Are you *sure* that those $5000 386s are really of any better quality |> than your typical $2000 Dell machine? |> Well, I've never bought one :-) but I would guess based on the target audience that they probably are. These are industrial PC's, mostly rack mount and designed for dirty, and hostile environments. Sealed boxes with filtered cooling fans. Membrane encased keyboards. Usually, no mouse. :-) Probably (or, at least I hope) much more filtered power supplies, usually redundant. When you read about a Power Plant or a Navy Ship using NT for control I certainly hope people don't think this means they bought from a cow!! |> In my experience, there are certainly more expensive things available, |> but quality isn't usually the difference. There are places where the survival of a home style PC would be measured in seconds. You can get quality, but you will pay a real premium for it. bill -- Bill Gunshannon | de-moc-ra-cy (di mok' ra see) n. Three wolves bill@cs.scranton.edu | and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. University of Scranton | Scranton, Pennsylvania | #include ###### Reply-To: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 References: Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 16:51:28 -0500 Lines: 20 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 Message-ID: <3c6d82e4_1@news.iglou.com> X-Trace: news.iglou.com 1013809892 204.250.0.238 (15 Feb 2002 16:51:32 -0500) X-Authenticated-User: dougq X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!freenix!skynet.be!skynet.be!news-x2.support.nl!news2.euro.net!uunet!ash.uu.net!news.iglou.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10374 "Bill Gunshannon" wrote in message news:a4jrsv$1p54$1@info.cs.uofs.edu... > In article , > "Syltrem" writes: > |> now how did this end up on a microsoft web site? > > Apparently, he works for the evil empire now. go figure.... Yeah, but salary aside, he has a perk of being able to host as much stuff as he wants- I mean, Dr. Bell can host not merely terabytes, but petabytes of data for free! -dq -- -Douglas Hurst Quebbeman (dougq@ixsnayamspayiglou.com) [Call me "Doug"] Surgically excise the pig-latin from my e-mail address in order to reply "The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away." -Tom Waits ###### From: Ben Franchuk Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 15:03:10 -0700 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <3C6D859E.A2A6FF05@jetnet.ab.ca> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <6ug042pg2t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 9 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!freenix!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10375 Neil Franklin wrote: > Because Gorden Bell works at Microsofts research division? Mabie they need to move him to the Software division. He could be the only one who knows how to fix bugs! -- Ben Franchuk - Dawn * 12/24 bit cpu * www.jetnet.ab.ca/users/bfranchuk/index.html ###### Message-ID: <3C6D4F37.724F97F5@trailing-edge.com> Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:11:03 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.2 AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MB) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 30 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.130 X-Trace: 1013814663 reader0.ash.ops.us.uu.net 16578 63.73.218.130 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!nntp.abs.net!uunet!dca.uu.net!ash.uu.net!spool0900.news.uu.net!reader0900.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10391 John Smith wrote: > > "Alan Greig" wrote in message > news:koqp6uclolvv3jevp4ok52sb4j96dofiav@4ax.com... > > Just saw a reference to this site in comp.arch and hadn't known it was > > there. > http://research.microsoft.com/~gbell/Digital/timeline/dechistory.htm > > > > Interesting to reflect on the comparative values of the equipment each > company sold, and the relative amount of research that each undertook. > > Reminds me a lot of the book written by Harvard's Michael Porter, > 'Competitive Strategy'. > > Comapq pursued the 'low-value high volume' model, whereas Digital followed > the 'low-volume high value model'. In the early 60's, DEC *was* the "low-value high volume" model. They sold pre-stuffed PCB's that the user could plug together into his own system, and then started selling "Programmed Data Processors" rather than "Computers" because they were targeting a market that didn't have the purchasing authority to buy a "Computer". Things, of course, are relative, and both the world and DEC had greatly changed by the late 80's when the DEC sales force was ignoring PO's from anyone not high enough on the Fortune 500. Tim. ###### From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Date: 15 Feb 2002 22:40:48 GMT Organization: TSS Inc. Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: citadel.in.taronga.com X-Trace: citadel.in.taronga.com 1013812848 3339 10.0.0.43 (15 Feb 2002 22:40:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@taronga.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Feb 2002 22:40:48 GMT X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-proxy.baileynm.com!citadel.in.taronga.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10393 In article , Syltrem wrote: >now how did this end up on a microsoft web site? Microsoft's research division actually does a lot of really interesting stuff, and has a lot of cool people. I suspect they push anyone who comes up with innovative ideas over there before they can do any damage. -- Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC. WWFD? "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" -- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans) ###### From: Mickey Lane Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 8 Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 19:53:20 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.25.44.89 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1014148400 63.25.44.89 (Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:53:20 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:53:20 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 11:53:20 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!feeder.qis.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10440 On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:50:30 -0500, "Syltrem" wrote: >now how did this end up on a microsoft web site? >-- ..and why is it running on a Unix box? ###### Message-ID: <3C72BBB4.3AFB8543@trailing-edge.com> Date: Tue, 19 Feb 2002 20:55:16 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.2 AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MB) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: comp.os.vms,comp.sys.dec,alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Gordon Bell site References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.130 X-Trace: 1014170116 reader0.ash.ops.us.uu.net 9219 63.73.218.130 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!uunet!ash.uu.net!spool0900.news.uu.net!reader0900.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:10441 Mickey Lane wrote: > > On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:50:30 -0500, "Syltrem" > wrote: > > >now how did this end up on a microsoft web site? > >-- > > ..and why is it running on a Unix box? Windows 2000 is Unix? http://uptime.netcraft.com/up/graph/?host=research.microsoft.com Tim.