From: Lars Brinkhoff Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Cokebottle keyboard Date: 11 Dec 2001 11:15:37 +0100 Organization: nocrew Lines: 6 Message-ID: <85adwq6p12.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: junk.nocrew.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: yggdrasil.utfors.se 1008065802 28060 212.73.17.42 (11 Dec 2001 10:16:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@utfors.se NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Dec 2001 10:16:42 GMT User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsgate.cistron.nl!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!195.54.122.107!newsfeed1.bredband.com!bredband!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!algonet!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!news.utfors.se!unknown!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:8121 Are there any pictures of a Knight keyboard, or a Stanford keyboard? In particular, what did a cokebottle look like? -- Lars Brinkhoff http://lars.nocrew.org/ Linux, GCC, PDP-10 Brinkhoff Consulting http://www.brinkhoff.se/ programming ###### From: Rich Alderson Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Cokebottle keyboard Date: 11 Dec 2001 16:08:49 -0500 Organization: Systems Administration, XKL LLC, Redmond WA 98052 Lines: 15 Sender: alderson+news@panix1.panix.com Message-ID: References: <85adwq6p12.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix1.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 1008104929 8531 166.84.1.1 (11 Dec 2001 21:08:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Dec 2001 21:08:49 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.7 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!news.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:8122 Lars Brinkhoff writes: > Are there any pictures of a Knight keyboard, or a Stanford keyboard? > In particular, what did a cokebottle look like? In particular, there was no character called "cokebottle"--rather, that was a meta-name for *any* odd character shape on the SAIL or Knight keyboards. This is unlike calling _gamma_ "yu-shiang whole fish". You can see a table of the SAIL/Knight character set in Appendix F of _The TeXbook_. -- Rich Alderson alderson+news@panix.com "You get what anybody gets. You get a lifetime." --Death, of the Endless ###### Sender: blarsen@LOCKE Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Cokebottle keyboard References: <85adwq6p12.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> From: blarsen@nonews.net (=?iso-8859-1?q?Bj=F8rn?= Hell Larsen) Organization: Nonews is good news Message-ID: Lines: 18 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.225.83.78 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@nextra.no NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 13:55:24 MET X-Trace: readme.online.no 1008161724 213.225.83.78 Date: 12 Dec 2001 13:56:24 +0100 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!193.190.198.17.MISMATCH!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!193.213.112.26!newsfeed1.ulv.nextra.no!nextra.com!news1.oke.nextra.no.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:8107 Mark Crispin writes: > On 11 Dec 2001, Rich Alderson wrote: > > You can see a table of the SAIL/Knight character set in Appendix F of _The > > TeXbook_. > > Does it actually show the keyboards? No, it shows the cmr10 font encoding. At least I assume that is the table Rich is referring to. Bjørn -- DoD#2537 / Senior MC - 1992 TDM850 (Knurr) Live to Flame, Flame to Live ###### Sender: phr2001-nospam@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Paul Rubin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Cokebottle keyboard References: <85adwq6p12.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <9v87q6$88a$1@abbenay.CS.Berkeley.EDU> Date: 12 Dec 2001 10:34:03 -0800 Message-ID: <7xr8q0z3s4.fsf@ruckus.brouhaha.com> Organization: Nightsong/Fort GNOX Lines: 7 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 12 Dec 2001 10:39:49 -0800, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news.he.net!news.kjsl.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:8152 bh@abbenay.cs.berkeley.edu (Brian Harvey) writes: > That can't be right -- I'm sure I learned it from someone at SAIL. > As I recall, in the pre-TK-keyboard days, MIT-AI people used to get > sarcastic about "control-meta-cokebottle," while SAIL people got > sarcastic about "altmode altmode cokebottle." I seem to remember the same thing from the jargon file. ###### From: Tim Shoppa Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Cokebottle keyboard Date: 12 Dec 2001 11:48:27 -0800 Organization: Trailing-Edge Technologies Lines: 11 Message-ID: <9v8cab0nl8@drn.newsguy.com> References: <85adwq6p12.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-171.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.91 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:8138 In article <85adwq6p12.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>, Lars says... > >Are there any pictures of a Knight keyboard, or a Stanford keyboard? >In particular, what did a cokebottle look like? Probably unrelated, but I remember keyboards that had a symbol on an "alt key" that looked something like an hourglass - or maybe two cokebottles joined at their necks. Anyone recognize this? Tim. ###### Message-ID: <3C17AEAA.1C369C3B@trailing-edge.com> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 19:23:23 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.2 AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MB) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Cokebottle keyboard References: <85adwq6p12.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <9v8cab0nl8@drn.newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.130 X-Trace: 1008203002 reader0.ash.ops.us.uu.net 2727 63.73.218.130 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!uunet!dca.uu.net!ash.uu.net!spool0900.news.uu.net!reader0900.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:8143 Christopher Stacy wrote: > > >>>>> On 12 Dec 2001 11:48:27 -0800, Tim Shoppa ("Tim") writes: > > Tim> In article <85adwq6p12.fsf@junk.nocrew.org>, Lars says... > >> > >> Are there any pictures of a Knight keyboard, or a Stanford keyboard? > >> In particular, what did a cokebottle look like? > > Tim> Probably unrelated, but I remember keyboards that had a symbol on > Tim> an "alt key" that looked something like an hourglass - or maybe > Tim> two cokebottles joined at their necks. Anyone recognize this? > > Altmode was a sort of lozenge. On which keyboard(s)? Last time I had a teleprinter with a real "altmode" key was probably the late 70's, and try as I might I seem to only recall this symbol in the mid-80's on a "modern" keyboard. Tim. ###### From: "Carl R. Friend" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Cokebottle keyboard Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2001 20:22:38 -0500 Organization: As little as possible! Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3C1802DE.234FA277@rcsri.org> References: <85adwq6p12.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <9v8cab0nl8@drn.newsguy.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYBZK8STROL2U1bDfTYPgPfgH0+Fz4lvh2bRDnqRQbdJ3Q1rif3iT7+ X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 01:22:39 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.4.2 i586) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:8134 Tim Shoppa wrote: > > Probably unrelated, but I remember keyboards that had a symbol on > an "alt key" that looked something like an hourglass - or maybe > two cokebottles joined at their necks. Anyone recognize this? Were they, perhaps, Symbolics keyboards? They have some pretty weird stuff on 'em. I'll be able to get a look (and maybe even a pic) this weekend. -- +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ | Carl Richard Friend (UNIX Sysadmin) | West Boylston | | Minicomputer Collector / Enthusiast | Massachusetts, USA | | mailto:crfriend@ma.ultranet.com +---------------------+ | http://www.ultranet.com/~crfriend/museum | ICBM: 42:22N 71:47W | +------------------------------------------------+---------------------+ ###### From: Lars Brinkhoff Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Cokebottle keyboard Date: 13 Dec 2001 11:50:48 +0100 Organization: nocrew Lines: 4 Message-ID: <85itbb4cmv.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> References: <85adwq6p12.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: junk.nocrew.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: yggdrasil.utfors.se 1008240700 17095 212.73.17.42 (13 Dec 2001 10:51:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@utfors.se NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2001 10:51:40 GMT User-Agent: Gnus/5.0808 (Gnus v5.8.8) Emacs/20.7 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!194.213.69.151!news.algonet.se!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!algonet!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!news.utfors.se!unknown!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:8145 Found a picture of a Symbolics keyboard: http://www.abstractscience.freeserve.co.uk/symbolics/photos/IO/ But it doesn't seem to have all the frills of the Stanford or Knight keyboards. ###### From: "Mike McMahon" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 References: <85adwq6p12.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> <85itbb4cmv.fsf@junk.nocrew.org> Subject: Re: Cokebottle keyboard Lines: 33 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 16:31:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.96.243.27 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.ne.mediaone.net 1008261106 65.96.243.27 (Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:31:46 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2001 11:31:46 EST Organization: ATT Broadband Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!chnws02.mediaone.net!chnws06.ne.mediaone.net!65.96.0.182!typhoon.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:8167 "Christopher Stacy" wrote in message news:uellzfesu.fsf@spacy.Boston.MA.US... > >>>>> On 13 Dec 2001 11:50:48 +0100, Lars Brinkhoff ("Lars") writes: > Lars> Found a picture of a Symbolics keyboard: > Lars> http://www.abstractscience.freeserve.co.uk/symbolics/photos/IO/ > Lars> But it doesn't seem to have all the frills of the Stanford or Knight > Lars> keyboards. > > The Lisp Machine keyboard was patterned after the Knight keyboard, > but had all possible features. In addition to Control and Meta, > it also had Super and Hyper, and Greek and Top, and some other > shifts, and lots and lots of random keys. The Space Cadet keyboard also had legends on the front of the keys. Much of its design was by committee and it presents a fairly clear case of the potential consequences of that. I have a TK keyboard and a Space Cadet keyboard in storage. (I've tried without success to track down a SAIL keyboard.) I could take pictures of them if there really aren't any out there already. I believe that all of these keyboards were made by Microswitch (at some point a division of Honeywell, I think). The key switches felt quite substantial in comparison to the mushy workstation and PC keyboards that have followed, but without the force of a TTY33 or the original IBM AT keyboard. The backnext key on the Knight keyboard, like the ALTMODE (or maybe it was ESC[ape]) key on the SAIL keyboard, was off in the corner and made a very distinctive thunk when hit.