From: sword7@speakeasy.org Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Experience with importing binaries into TS10. Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 00:02:33 -0000 Message-ID: Sender: Timothy Stark Summary: User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.19 (i686)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 59 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:6334 Hello folks: I finally had a new experience with timesharing with TOPS-10 since I was a student at Gallaudet University that had DECsystem-10 system (KL10 machine with 1024K memory and TOPS-10 v7.02 and v7.03). I attempted to import 36-bit binaries into my TS10 through many different methods. I downloaded a few files from TOAD's anonymous FTP site. With tenex mode, I downloaded them but found out that they are so corrupted by checking type36 program and my dump10 program. I read FTP's manual, some old articles from here and gave up. I downloaded them again but with binary mode instead of tenex. With binary mode, it carries 9 bytes of packed 36-bit words. I wrote a program to convert to 40-bit words or 5-byte 36-bit words. I was able to read text information on some files. I tried to Kermit-10 program to upload them into my TS10 emulator. With regular packet length (80), I successfully uploaded them into my TS10. When I attempted to upload them with 1000-byte packet but Kermit-10 crashed (my TS10 or TOPS-10 did not crash). I had killed it and re-run it with 80-byte packet setting right now. I tried to read text files and run exe files but.. All text files are completely corrupted and I was told the not EXE file or bad format in exe file. I tried uploaded regular text files into my TS10 by using Kermit-10 but they worked so well. Hmmm. I learned that Kermit-10 handles only text files properly. Oh, well. I tried backwr to restore files into my TS10 but same results. I found out that backwr handles only text files. I modified it to handle raw files rather. They still did not work. I gave up. I finally get good idea. I took my old programs like smtape.c to create 512-block size tapes. I made a listing of files that I downloaded and executed it to create .tap file... I get into the TS10 emulator to attempt copy files from a tap file. I was told that block too large or quota exceeded. I figured them out. I had to set 'set blocksize backup:512'. I successfully copied them into my TS10 emulator. I finally was able to read text files on my TS10 emulator clearly! I tried to run a exe file but I got illegal instruction at PC 140. I looked into location 140 and found out opcode 104. I recongized that they are for TOPS-20 system, not TOPS-10. I tried to compile mar file but I was told that Universal MONSYS is not found. Well, I learned that my latter method is working for both text and binaries so well (smtape.c file and a listings). -- Tim Stark -- Timothy Stark <>< Inet: sword7@speakeasy.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible) ###### From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Experience with importing binaries into TS10. Date: 4 Aug 2001 17:12:02 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 91 Message-ID: <9khad2$320$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 996945122 3136 128.59.39.2 (4 Aug 2001 17:12:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Aug 2001 17:12:02 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!feed.news.qwest.net!dfw-peer.news.verio.net!phl-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:6335 In article , wrote: : ... : I attempted to import 36-bit binaries into my TS10 through many different : methods. I downloaded a few files from TOAD's anonymous FTP site. With : tenex mode, I downloaded them but found out that they are so corrupted... : Tenex mode is for transferring 8-bit binaries into and out of 36-bit computers. Binary mode is for transferring 36-bit binaries. : I tried to Kermit-10 program to upload them into my TS10 emulator. With : regular packet length (80), I successfully uploaded them into my TS10. : When I attempted to upload them with 1000-byte packet but Kermit-10 : crashed (my TS10 or TOPS-10 did not crash). I had killed it and re-run : it with 80-byte packet setting right now. : Kermit-10 was written by the people at Stevens Institute of Technology, and supported only short packets (94 bytes or less). Some years later, a guy named Dan Norstedt added long packets but I never heard much about it, and that was 12 years ago. I don't know if anybody would be able to troubleshoot the problem at this point, but if you post the details, maybe they will ring a bell. : I tried to read text files and run exe files but.. All text files : are completely corrupted and I was told the not EXE file or bad format : in exe file. I tried uploaded regular text files into my TS10 by using : Kermit-10 but they worked so well. Hmmm. I learned that Kermit-10 handles : only text files properly. Oh, well. : Kermit-10 should handle all types of files, but you have to give it the appropriate commands. I think I posted this yesterday, but in case you missed it, here it is again: SET FILE BYTE-SIZE This command sets the byte size Kermit-10 will use for files being received or transmitted. SEVEN-BIT bytes should be used for ASCII text files which are to be used as text files on the TOPS-10 system. SEVEN-BIT should also be used to sending TOPS-10 format binary files to another system if the file is intended to be brought to a TOPS-10 system. EIGHT-BIT bytes should be used for binary files from other systems (such as CP/M .COM files) which are being transferred to the TOPS-10 system for storage. This allows the file to be returned without any changes. AUTO-BYTE is the same as SEVEN-BIT for files being received from the other Kermit. When sending a file with FILE BYTE-SIZE AUTO-BYTE, Kermit-10 will guess whether the file should be sent as SEVEN-BIT or EIGHT-BIT. This guess is based on the mode used to write the file. If the file was written in image mode, image binary mode, binary mode, or dump record mode, the file will be sent as an EIGHT-BIT file, otherwise it will be sent as a SEVEN-BIT file. Note that version 1 of Kermit-10 wrote all files it received in binary mode, even if FILE BYTE-SIZE SEVEN-BIT was set. This means that AUTO-BYTE will not correctly determine the byte size to use for files which were written with Kermit-10. This is also true of files written by a number of other programs under TOPS-10, most notably any file written by a Galaxy component (such as batch .LOG files) are written in binary mode. AUTO-BYTE is the default FILE BYTE-SIZE. Kermit-10>SET FILE BYTE-SIZE type Where type is SEVEN-BIT, EIGHT-BIT or AUTO-BYTE. If you used this command and it didn't work, then please supply details about the procedure you followed: Which Kermit program and version on the other end, what commands did you give it, etc. Here are the instructions I wrote for transferring files with Kermit-20 (a totally separate program from Kermit-10). I think these instructions would also apply to Kermit-10: Let's say you have PC running DOS, Windows, or UNIX with MS-DOS Kermit, C-Kermit, or Kermit 95, that has a TELNET connection to a DEC-20 (or emulator). Then: To transfer an ASCII text file between the DEC-20 and the PC: Tell the PC Kermit to "set file type text" and then transfer the file. This is equivalent to FTP TYPE ASCII. To transfer a 36-bit binary file between the DEC-20 and the PC: Tell the PC Kermit to "set file type binary". Then transfer the file. This is equivalent to FTP TYPE BINARY. To transfer an 8-bit binary PC file between the PC and the DEC-20: Tell the PC Kermit to "set file type binary". Tell DEC-20 Kermit to "set file byte 8". Then transfer the file. This is equivalent to FTP TYPE TENEX. - Frank ###### From: sword7@speakeasy.org Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Experience with importing binaries into TS10. Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 20:11:29 -0000 Message-ID: Sender: Timothy Stark References: <9khad2$320$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.19 (i686)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:6352 Frank da Cruz wrote: > To transfer a 36-bit binary file between the DEC-20 and the PC: > Tell the PC Kermit to "set file type binary". > Then transfer the file. > This is equivalent to FTP TYPE BINARY. Frank: Thank you for let me know information about that! Next time, I will try. If it did not work, I will send you more details. I have a question for you. To transfer a 36-bit binary file between the DEC-20 and the PC, should a 36-bit binary file have packed 9-bytes 36-bit words (FTP format) or 5-bytes 36-bit words (tape format)? Thank you!! -- Tim Stark -- Timothy Stark <>< Inet: sword7@speakeasy.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible) ###### From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Experience with importing binaries into TS10. Date: 4 Aug 2001 22:01:18 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 25 Message-ID: <9khrbe$dc2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <9khad2$320$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 996962478 13698 128.59.39.2 (4 Aug 2001 22:01:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Aug 2001 22:01:18 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!nycmny1-snf1.gtei.net!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!panix!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:6353 In article , wrote: : Frank da Cruz wrote: : > To transfer a 36-bit binary file between the DEC-20 and the PC: : > Tell the PC Kermit to "set file type binary". : > Then transfer the file. : > This is equivalent to FTP TYPE BINARY. : : Thank you for let me know information about that! Next time, I will : try. If it did not work, I will send you more details. : : I have a question for you. To transfer a 36-bit binary file between : the DEC-20 and the PC, should a 36-bit binary file have packed 9-bytes : 36-bit words (FTP format) or 5-bytes 36-bit words (tape format)? : It depends on what you are using to transfer it and what format you expect it to be in when it comes back to DEC-20. DEC-20 Kermit uses the 5-bytes format, so if you use Kermit to send a 36-bit file to a PC, and use Kermit again to send it from the PC back to the DEC-20, it all "just works". I don't know anything about the pseudo-tape formats, but in any case, they are not regular files, but platform-specific archives, similar to UNIX tarballs, that need to be unpacked, uncompressed, and/or decoded after they arrive. - Frank