From: "Harris S. Newman" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Editor Lines: 11 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:29:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.25.134.87 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.austin.rr.com 994418977 66.25.134.87 (Fri, 06 Jul 2001 06:29:37 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 06:29:37 CDT Organization: Road Runner - Texas Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.stealth.net!news-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!cyclone.kc.rr.com!news.kc.rr.com!cyclone.austin.rr.com!cyclone2.austin.rr.com!typhoon.austin.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:5947 For Tops-10, whats the "easiest" editor to use? I have been using edit, but I can't get it to list lines....the l command doesn't seem to list.... I used sed on DG AOS equipment, but it's been 20 years. I like full screen editors. Any ideas? -HN ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Editor Date: Fri, 06 Jul 01 09:42:10 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 41 Message-ID: <9i4ae7$dvb$2@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <2Kh17.648$kc1.68138@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYONusJokIAEvp+teAvOdOAjsxPjARzKJ3MnsgdjWtlsPpJmkUc6IEp X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Jul 2001 12:20:23 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newsfeed.icl.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!newsfeed.mathworks.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-43 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:5809 In article <2Kh17.648$kc1.68138@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "Henry W. Miller" wrote: > >"Harris S. Newman" wrote in message >news:Bih17.144150$lq1.35507014@typhoon.austin.rr.com... > >Harris, > >> For Tops-10, whats the "easiest" editor to use? >> >> I have been using edit, but I can't get it to >>list lines....the l command >> doesn't seem to list.... >> > > Do you mean SOS or EDT? Worse. I think he means LINED. > >> I used sed on DG AOS equipment, but it's been 20 years. >>I like full screen >> editors. Any ideas? > > I vote for DTECO. It's a full-screen editor based upon TECO, with >cursor manipulation ala EMACS. I'd vote that way, too. Do you have a good idea of how to teach him via this net-beastie? I haven't figured out a way yet. One of my problems is that I can't seem to make my fingers type a dollar sign when they know they have to type the altmode[emoticon looks at keyboard]...I mean, that escape key. And my newsreader does awful things when I type that ESC key. /BAH /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Editor Date: Sat, 07 Jul 01 08:28:25 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 35 Message-ID: <9i6qg7$csk$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <2Kh17.648$kc1.68138@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <9i4ae7$dvb$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <4bs17.26104$C81.2043437@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYlVcVZLpBQjBICqF5lbpJ3NOfTIDc8XaxlAjvm6NkZCirea+bz0TW+ X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Jul 2001 11:06:47 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-172 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:5820 In article <4bs17.26104$C81.2043437@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, "Henry W. Miller" wrote: > > wrote in message news:9i4ae7$dvb$2@bob.news.rcn.net... >> In article <2Kh17.648$kc1.68138@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, >> "Henry W. Miller" wrote: >> > >> >"Harris S. Newman" wrote in message >> >news:Bih17.144150$lq1.35507014@typhoon.austin.rr.com... >> > >> >Harris, >> > >> >> For Tops-10, whats the "easiest" editor to use? >> >> >> >> I have been using edit, but I can't get it to >> >>list lines....the l command >> >> doesn't seem to list.... >> >> >> > >> > Do you mean SOS or EDT? >> >> Worse. I think he means LINED. >> > > I think that LINED was finally removed from the monitor >tables around 7.01? I'd vote for LINED being the worst >editor, except that it'd have a tie with VI. I'm not sure. What would we have put in its place? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Reply-To: "Henry W. Miller" From: "Henry W. Miller" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 References: Subject: Re: Editor Lines: 30 Organization: What? You mean someone organized this? X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: <2Kh17.648$kc1.68138@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:58:54 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.81.86.124 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 994420734 12.81.86.124 (Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:58:54 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:58:54 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news-peer-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:5793 "Harris S. Newman" wrote in message news:Bih17.144150$lq1.35507014@typhoon.austin.rr.com... Harris, > For Tops-10, whats the "easiest" editor to use? > > I have been using edit, but I can't get it to list lines....the l command > doesn't seem to list.... > Do you mean SOS or EDT? > I used sed on DG AOS equipment, but it's been 20 years. I like full screen > editors. Any ideas? I vote for DTECO. It's a full-screen editor based upon TECO, with cursor manipulation ala EMACS. > -HN > > > -HWM ###### From: Alan Greig Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Editor Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 14:11:26 +0100 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 38 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-157.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news.tele.dk!209.155.233.16!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:5957 On Fri, 06 Jul 2001 11:29:37 GMT, "Harris S. Newman" wrote: >For Tops-10, whats the "easiest" editor to use? > >I have been using edit, but I can't get it to list lines....the l command >doesn't seem to list.... SOS on TOPS-10 and EDIT on TOPS-20 were based on the same original source but somebody decided to alter some of the command characters between the two and I've forgotten which is which. You can certainly list a range of lines if you know how in both. Does l on its own list one line? How about "H" for help?. If I was sitting in front of SOS or EDIT I'd work it out in a few seconds but its been so long... > >I used sed on DG AOS equipment, but it's been 20 years. I like full screen >editors. Any ideas? Screen editors included: Fine - FINE is not emacs DOPE Display Oriented POP2 Editor (another emacs clone) SIMED - an excellent screen editor submitted to DECUS by the Simula people. SED itself you mention Undoubtedly others I've forgotten. DOPE reminds me. A sign at ERCC Kings Buildings (Edinburgh University) used to say: "Would all users please refrain form using dope in this room during peak times as it slows down response time." >-HN > > -- Alan ###### Reply-To: "Henry W. Miller" From: "Henry W. Miller" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 References: <2Kh17.648$kc1.68138@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <9i4ae7$dvb$2@bob.news.rcn.net> Subject: Re: Editor Lines: 57 Organization: What? You mean someone organized this? X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: <4bs17.26104$C81.2043437@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 23:52:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.81.77.70 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 994463552 12.81.77.70 (Fri, 06 Jul 2001 23:52:32 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 23:52:32 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.mathworks.com!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.72!wnfilter2!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:5838 wrote in message news:9i4ae7$dvb$2@bob.news.rcn.net... > In article <2Kh17.648$kc1.68138@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>, > "Henry W. Miller" wrote: > > > >"Harris S. Newman" wrote in message > >news:Bih17.144150$lq1.35507014@typhoon.austin.rr.com... > > > >Harris, > > > >> For Tops-10, whats the "easiest" editor to use? > >> > >> I have been using edit, but I can't get it to > >>list lines....the l command > >> doesn't seem to list.... > >> > > > > Do you mean SOS or EDT? > > Worse. I think he means LINED. > I think that LINED was finally removed from the monitor tables around 7.01? I'd vote for LINED being the worst editor, except that it'd have a tie with VI. > > > >> I used sed on DG AOS equipment, but it's been 20 years. > >>I like full screen > >> editors. Any ideas? > > > > I vote for DTECO. It's a full-screen editor based upon TECO, with > >cursor manipulation ala EMACS. > > I'd vote that way, too. Do you have a good idea of how > to teach him via this net-beastie? I haven't figured out > a way yet. One of my problems is that I can't seem to make > my fingers type a dollar sign when they know they have to > type the altmode[emoticon looks at keyboard]...I mean, that > escape key. And my newsreader does awful things when I type > that ESC key. > Go for the gold and type like they did in the manuals? (No pun intended for the Gold key in WPS...) > /BAH > > > /BAH > > Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. -HWM ###### From: Sean Case Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Editor Organization: Marginal References: User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) Message-ID: Lines: 32 Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 19:12:39 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 210.23.147.196 X-Complaints-To: news@pacific.net.au X-Trace: nostril.pacific.net.au 994497101 210.23.147.196 (Sat, 07 Jul 2001 19:11:41 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 19:11:41 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!telocity-west!TELOCITY!out.nntp.be!propagator-dallas!news-in-dallas.newsfeeds.com!in.nntp.be!newsfeed.zip.com.au!203.12.97.119.MISMATCH!nostril.pacific.net.au!gsc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:5948 In article , "Harris S. Newman" wrote: > For Tops-10, whats the "easiest" editor to use? You mentioned DG's SED. I forget which of DEC's editors that corresponds to. (EDT? When I did some DG work about ten years ago I remember that the parallels between their software offerings and DEC's were downright uncanny.) Others have suggested DTECO, which is (a display-friendly version of) what DG's SPEED was ripped off from. Do not on any account use SOS. If you want to be a hard core PDP-10 hacker, you should learn TECO. But "easiest" is not a word that comes to mind to describe it. See the recent flamew^Wdiscussion on alt.folklore.computers. There is a different screen editor called SED on TOPS-10. I liked it a lot when I was using the '-10 regularly. I don't think there's a DG product that corresponds to it. It's a fairly straightforward screen editor with a fairly powerful macro system (albeit not in TECO's league). There is also extensive online help as well as a printable reference manual and tutorial. Sean Case -- Sean Case gsc@zipworld.com.au Code is an illusion. Only assertions are real. ###### Reply-To: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" From: "Douglas H. Quebbeman" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 References: <2Kh17.648$kc1.68138@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net> <9i4ae7$dvb$2@bob.news.rcn.net> Subject: Re: Editor Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 11:47:01 -0400 Lines: 25 Organization: The Estopinal Group X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 Message-ID: <3b472ef7_3@news.iglou.com> X-Trace: news.iglou.com 994520823 204.250.0.238 (7 Jul 2001 11:47:03 -0400) X-Authenticated-User: dougq X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.250.0.238 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!netnews.com!newsfeed.nyc.globix.net!uunet!ash.uu.net!news.iglou.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:5774 wrote in message news:9i4ae7$dvb$2@bob.news.rcn.net... > > Do you mean SOS or EDT? > > Worse. I think he means LINED. I must be the only one in the world that liked LINED, which I never could distinguish from SOS. I liked the ALTER command so much I borrowed an implementation by Alan J. Miller written in 8080 assembly language for an extended version of the monitor known variously as SYS8 and SCS-1, and also wrote a version of ALTER in PL/1 for my custom command environment under PRIMOS (on a Prime 400). I did use TECO, too, for stuff like breaking lines in two or joining them. I still use a TECO-clone under DOS (or Win32 consoles) called PMATE; it's bascially TECO with a incremental redisplay added (in other words, EMACS, but *not* EMACS). Ah well... -dq