Message-ID: <3AD0CDAF.1BF0A6F7@trailing-edge.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 20:44:31 -0400
From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>
Organization: Trailing Edge Technology
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Subject: 3622 pages of TOPS-10 V7.04 HTML docs 
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A couple of folks have complained to me that the *.MEM line-printer
files are unreadable in their browsers, as the underscores "erase"
the text they are underlining.  (What browsers have this problem?
It didn't happen to me via Lynx, Netscape, or Mosaic.)

In any event, I wrote a little MEM2HTML converter that turns the
over-printed underlines and doublestrikes into HTML <u>'s and <b>'s,
and replaces form feeds with <hr>'s.
The resulting HTML documents are the first batch to be made available,
all from the 7.04 DOCC tape:

  TOPS-10 Operating Systems Command Manual
  http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/TOPS10V704_DOCC/CMND.html

  TOPS-10 Crash Analysis Guide
  http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/TOPS10V704_DOCC/CAG.html

  TOPS-10 Monitor Calls Manual Volume 1
  http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/TOPS10V704_DOCC/MCV1.html

  TOPS-10 Monitor Calls Manual Volume 2
  http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/TOPS10V704_DOCC/MCV2.html

  TOPS-10 Monitor Tables Description
  http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/TOPS10V704_DOCC/MONTAB.html

  TOPS-10 Operator's Command Reference Manual
  http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/TOPS10V704_DOCC/OCLRM.html

  TOPS-10 Operator's Guide
  http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/TOPS10V704_DOCC/OPGD.html

  TOPS-10 Software Installation Guide
  http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/TOPS10V704_DOCC/SIG.html

  TOPS-10 Stopcodes Specification
  http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/TOPS10V704_DOCC/STOPCD.html

  TOPS-10 User Utilities Manual
  http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/TOPS10V704_DOCC/UTIL.html

These are the "trial run" of the converter; if anyone has any
suggestions or complaints about the actions taken by the converter,
let me know and improvements will go into the next release.  In
particular, pay close attention for characters likely to be interpreted
as tags of some sort by common browsers - I think I did a pretty
good job with < = &lt; and > = &gt;, but maybe I missed something
else that's relevant.

Tim.

######

From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: 3622 pages of TOPS-10 V7.04 HTML docs
Date: 9 Apr 2001 07:21:12 -0700
Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com]
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In article <td3dh8987db8fd@news.supernews.com>, not-a-real-address@usa.net
says...
>
><3AD0CDAF.1BF0A6F7@trailing-edge.com> divulged:
>
>>particular, pay close attention for characters likely to be interpreted
>>as tags of some sort by common browsers - I think I did a pretty
>>good job with < = &lt; and > = &gt;, but maybe I missed something
>>else that's relevant.
>
>i haven't had a chance to look, so forgive me, don't forget to convert
>ampersands too.

Indeed I *did* forget those on this first pass.  Thank you!

Tim.

######

Message-ID: <3AD2272C.A693BBBA@ev1.net>
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 14:18:36 -0700
From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>
Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net
Organization: Cannine Computer Center
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Tim Shoppa wrote:
> 
> A couple of folks have complained to me that the *.MEM line-printer
> files are unreadable in their browsers, as the underscores "erase"
> the text they are underlining.  (What browsers have this problem?
> It didn't happen to me via Lynx, Netscape, or Mosaic.)
> 
> In any event, I wrote a little MEM2HTML converter that turns the
> over-printed underlines and doublestrikes into HTML <u>'s and <b>'s,
> and replaces form feeds with <hr>'s.
> 
Shy don't you just go all the way and convert them to Acrobat files???

(...ducking...running away fast as I can............)

-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
|     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+

######

From: not-a-real-address@usa.net (those who know me have no need of my name)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: 3622 pages of TOPS-10 V7.04 HTML docs 
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 13:16:24 -0000
Organization: earthfriends
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<3AD0CDAF.1BF0A6F7@trailing-edge.com> divulged:

>particular, pay close attention for characters likely to be interpreted
>as tags of some sort by common browsers - I think I did a pretty
>good job with < = &lt; and > = &gt;, but maybe I missed something
>else that's relevant.

i haven't had a chance to look, so forgive me, don't forget to convert
ampersands too.

-- 
okay, have a sig then

######

From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: 3622 pages of TOPS-10 V7.04 HTML docs
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:4510

Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> wrote:
> Why don't you just go all the way and convert them to Acrobat files???

> (...ducking...running away fast as I can............)

Hey, I for one actually agree on this.  Acrobat files would be very nice for
those of us that are crazy enough to maybe want paper copies!

			Zane

######

From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: 3622 pages of TOPS-10 V7.04 HTML docs
Date: 10 Apr 2001 05:51:01 -0700
Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com]
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:4508

In article <Z3pA6.826$Hp.38468@typhoon.aracnet.com>, "Zane says...
>
>Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> wrote:
>> Why don't you just go all the way and convert them to Acrobat files???
>
>> (...ducking...running away fast as I can............)
>
>Hey, I for one actually agree on this.  Acrobat files would be very nice for
>those of us that are crazy enough to maybe want paper copies!

I know that I can go from a line printer file to postscript and then
use ghostscript to convert from postscript to PDF, but is the result
really useful to folks?

I fear that if I made a couple tens of thousands of pages of docs
available in a "most easily used as printed material" form, I'd be personally
responsible for the destruction of a couple of deciduous forests.

(Ob THHGTTG: What's a deciduous forest worth these days in terms
of a ship's peanut?)

Tim.

######

From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: 3622 pages of TOPS-10 V7.04 HTML docs
Date: 10 Apr 2001 18:28:41 GMT
Organization: Columbia University
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In article <Z3pA6.826$Hp.38468@typhoon.aracnet.com>,
Zane H. Healy <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:
: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> wrote:
: > Why don't you just go all the way and convert them to Acrobat files???
: 
: Hey, I for one actually agree on this.  Acrobat files would be very 
: nice for those of us that are crazy enough to maybe want paper copies!
: 
It might be wise to avoid trendy propietary formats -- they come and go
amazingly fast.  And there are so many of them.

Even HTML 1.0 is questionable.  When the Web first got big, the party line
was "HTML 1.0 is eternal".  Now when you look at modern HTML spec, every
single thing from HTML 1.0 is "depracated", "legacy", "don't use".

Kind of makes you appreciate plain old unadorned ASCII.

Preferably chiseled onto stone.

- Frank

######

Message-ID: <3AD35A9D.D9714F48@iee.org>
From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>
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Frank da Cruz wrote:
> 
> In article <Z3pA6.826$Hp.38468@typhoon.aracnet.com>,
> Zane H. Healy <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:
> : Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> wrote:
> : > Why don't you just go all the way and convert them to Acrobat files???
> :
> : Hey, I for one actually agree on this.  Acrobat files would be very
> : nice for those of us that are crazy enough to maybe want paper copies!
> :
> It might be wise to avoid trendy propietary formats -- they come and go
> amazingly fast.  And there are so many of them.

PDF has a publically available spec. You could (in principle)
decode it a thousand years from now (always assuming
you could still read the media).

> Even HTML 1.0 is questionable.  When the Web first got big, the party line
> was "HTML 1.0 is eternal".  Now when you look at modern HTML spec, every
> single thing from HTML 1.0 is "depracated", "legacy", "don't use".
> 
> Kind of makes you appreciate plain old unadorned ASCII.

HTML is pretty close to ASCII really. You need to
decode the associated graphics but that's about all.
I would even allow Javascript at a stretch.

Both of these are far more likely to be
intelligible a thousand years from now
than Word formats or Bookreader etc.

Anyway, I assume that the original text format
is not going to go away and any *additional*
formats are for the convenience of the
current web-enabled audience.

Antonio

-- 

---------------
Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org

######

From: Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: 3622 pages of TOPS-10 V7.04 HTML docs
Date: 10 Apr 2001 13:16:03 -0700
Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com]
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:4523

In article <3AD3789E.CC4F67D6@ev1.net>, Charles says...
>
>Tim Shoppa wrote:
>> I know that I can go from a line printer file to postscript and then
>> use ghostscript to convert from postscript to PDF, but is the result
>> really useful to folks?
>> 
>> I fear that if I made a couple tens of thousands of pages of docs
>> available in a "most easily used as printed material" form, I'd be personally
>> responsible for the destruction of a couple of deciduous forests.
>> 
>I agree that proprietary formats should be avoided...but the Acrobat format
>is a very *open* proprietary format. Readers exist for PC and Mac, and probably
>other platforms. The specs are readily available.

I don't have much objection to Acrobat (PDF) files for what they're good
for - printed docs, or electronic versions of printed docs.  And in this
case, I'm starting out with line printer files (with embedded form feeds
for page control), so one could argue that PDF files are a reasonable
"modern" version of them.

(Other than the form feeds, the only thing fancy in the *.MEM line printer
files are some underlining and boldfacing done by backspacing or CR'ing and
overprinting.)

The "ideal HTML" version of these docs would remove the pagination and
add hyperlinks based on content.  Alas, it is not always easy to detect
content-based cues from the oritinal ASCII text.  And given the complete
lack of contents in many web pages, I suspect that I won't get too many
complaints for making the still-paginated versions available for browsing
via HTML :-).

>I seldom print out my .pdf documentation, but IMHO the Acrobat reader is 
>very convenient to use for reading and searching the documents.

I just checked, and the tools I have available for making PDF from the
line printer files do indeed allow text-based searching in the PDF results.

> Also, the
>.pdf documents can be enlarged inside the reader... I find it a very
>convenient format for keeping text and diagrams together. But I fear that
>converting circa 3000 pages of documents would be a mammoth task!!!

I just did 3622 pages - it took about 5 minutes to write the conversion
script, and about 8 seconds to do all the conversions :-).

>Perhaps Tim could post the software and directions for converting the
>manuals, and then whoever is interested could roll their own...
>but please have mercy on us Mac people...running PC software is difficult
>for us.

What I'm using is Unix-based, and ought to run well on a variety of platforms.
In particular:

1.  To convert from line printer (.MEM) to postscript (.PS):
    I use "textps" from the ifhp package.

2.  To make Acrobat (.PDF) from postscript (.PS):
    I use the "ps2pdf" translator, which calls ghostscript to do the
    conversion.  Ghostscript is a very common postscript/PDF viewer/manipulator
    that is *not* from Adobe.  It's big advantage over the Adobe tools for
    this application, of course, is that ghostscript can be used from the
    command line and is thus much more amenable to automation than the
    point-and-drool Adobe tools.

Incidentally, the resulting .PDF file is almost always smaller than the
initial line-printer .MEM file (due to the PDF's built-in compression, and
not due to destruction of content, I hope!)

>(I will confess that I *did* print out the entire text of Hakmem...I just
>wanted it on my bookshelf for handy reference...)

I'm disappointed that nobody has chimed in yet with the correct exchange rate
between deciduous forests and ship's peanuts!

Tim.

######

Message-ID: <3AD3789E.CC4F67D6@ev1.net>
Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:18:23 -0700
From: Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net>
Reply-To: richmond@ev1.net
Organization: Cannine Computer Center
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Subject: Re: 3622 pages of TOPS-10 V7.04 HTML docs
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Tim Shoppa wrote:
> 
> In article <Z3pA6.826$Hp.38468@typhoon.aracnet.com>, "Zane says...
> >
> >Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> wrote:
> >> Why don't you just go all the way and convert them to Acrobat files???
> >
> >> (...ducking...running away fast as I can............)
> >
> >Hey, I for one actually agree on this.  Acrobat files would be very nice for
> >those of us that are crazy enough to maybe want paper copies!
> 
> I know that I can go from a line printer file to postscript and then
> use ghostscript to convert from postscript to PDF, but is the result
> really useful to folks?
> 
> I fear that if I made a couple tens of thousands of pages of docs
> available in a "most easily used as printed material" form, I'd be personally
> responsible for the destruction of a couple of deciduous forests.
> 
I agree that proprietary formats should be avoided...but the Acrobat format
is a very *open* proprietary format. Readers exist for PC and Mac, and probably
other platforms. The specs are readily available.

I seldom print out my .pdf documentation, but IMHO the Acrobat reader is 
very convenient to use for reading and searching the documents. Also, the
.pdf documents can be enlarged inside the reader... I find it a very
convenient format for keeping text and diagrams together. But I fear that
converting circa 3000 pages of documents would be a mammoth task!!!
Perhaps Tim could post the software and directions for converting the
manuals, and then whoever is interested could roll their own...
but please have mercy on us Mac people...running PC software is difficult
for us.

(I will confess that I *did* print out the entire text of Hakmem...I just
wanted it on my bookshelf for handy reference...)

-- 
+-------------------------------------------------------------+
|     Charles and Francis Richmond     <richmond@plano.net>   |
+-------------------------------------------------------------+

######

From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: 3622 pages of TOPS-10 V7.04 HTML docs
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
References: <3AD0CDAF.1BF0A6F7@trailing-edge.com> <3AD2272C.A693BBBA@ev1.net> <Z3pA6.826$Hp.38468@typhoon.aracnet.com> <9auvjl01icr@drn.newsguy.com> <3AD3789E.CC4F67D6@ev1.net>
Organization: Aracnet
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Charles Richmond <richmond@ev1.net> wrote:
> I agree that proprietary formats should be avoided...but the Acrobat format
> is a very *open* proprietary format. Readers exist for PC and Mac, and probably
> other platforms. The specs are readily available.

It's also available on most UNIX platforms including Linux (so it is easy 
for most machines running TS10 to view Acrobat files).  Also 3rd party
viewers exist for a lot of other OS's such as VMS, and there is a Java based
viewer from Adobe also available.

> convenient format for keeping text and diagrams together. But I fear that
> converting circa 3000 pages of documents would be a mammoth task!!!

I doubt it's that bad.  I just don't know how to go from source to
Postscript.  Once I've got a Postscript file I can just drop that on the
Acrobat Distiller Icon on my Mac's desktop.  Plus as Tim pointed out it can
be done with Ghostscript on UNIX.

> Perhaps Tim could post the software and directions for converting the
> manuals, and then whoever is interested could roll their own...
> but please have mercy on us Mac people...running PC software is difficult
> for us.

Hmmm, the multi-page TIFF's that most of the PDP-8 manuals come to mind....

			Zane

######

From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: 3622 pages of TOPS-10 V7.04 HTML docs
Date: 10 Apr 2001 14:40:01 -0700
Organization: Spies In The Wire
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From article <zTKA6.851$Hp.39894@typhoon.aracnet.com>, by "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>:
> 
> Hmmm, the multi-page TIFF's that most of the PDP-8 manuals come to mind....
> 

You can download them now as pdf's from Kevins page
http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/

It does the conversion on the fly.

I decided a couple of years ago to use pdf's for everything I was scanning
because the spec was documented, readers were available, and it supported 
text and scanned pages as well as indexing.

######

From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: 3622 pages of TOPS-10 V7.04 HTML docs
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
References: <3AD0CDAF.1BF0A6F7@trailing-edge.com> <3AD2272C.A693BBBA@ev1.net> <Z3pA6.826$Hp.38468@typhoon.aracnet.com> <9auvjl01icr@drn.newsguy.com> <3AD3789E.CC4F67D6@ev1.net> <9avpm301thk@drn.newsguy.com>
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:4529

Tim Shoppa <shoppa@trailing-edge.com> wrote:
> I'm disappointed that nobody has chimed in yet with the correct exchange rate
> between deciduous forests and ship's peanuts!

Well...  As I've not been onboard a ship since late '96, and I don't
remember buying peanuts onboard a ship since the late 80's, I'm afraid I'm
no longer sure what the going price for a ships peanut is.  Besides, I
always went with Honey Roasted Planters Peanuts, instead of plain ones.

			Zane

######

Message-ID: <3AD38C2C.CB562847@iee.org>
From: "antonio.carlini" <arcarlini@iee.org>
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Tim Shoppa wrote:
> I'm disappointed that nobody has chimed in yet with the correct exchange rate
> between deciduous forests and ship's peanuts!

OK.

It's still three deciduous forests to one ship's peanut.

-- 

---------------
Antonio Carlini             arcarlini@iee.org

######

From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: 3622 pages of TOPS-10 V7.04 HTML docs
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:4527

Al Kossow <aek@spies.com> wrote:
> You can download them now as pdf's from Kevins page
> http://highgate.comm.sfu.ca/pdp8/

> It does the conversion on the fly.

COOL!  I see at the bottom of the page there is a link to an app for Linux
that converts them to PDF.

> I decided a couple of years ago to use pdf's for everything I was scanning
> because the spec was documented, readers were available, and it supported 
> text and scanned pages as well as indexing.

Yes, unlike a lot of people around here I actually prefer PDF to plain
ASCII, it's nice having the documents in a format that allows you to
basically reproduce the original.  Acrobat does a very nice job of solving
the problem of trying to OCR documents (well, unless you need to modify the
documents).

			Zane

######

From: jfrancis@dungeon.engr.sgi.com (John Francis)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: 3622 pages of TOPS-10 V7.04 HTML docs
Date: 10 Apr 2001 23:54:12 GMT
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In article <3AD38C2C.CB562847@iee.org>,
antonio.carlini <arcarlini@iee.org> wrote:
>
>
>Tim Shoppa wrote:
>> I'm disappointed that nobody has chimed in yet with the correct exchange rate
>> between deciduous forests and ship's peanuts!
>
>OK.
>
>It's still three deciduous forests to one ship's peanut.

That's inflation for you!  (I'm pretty sure it was two forests originally).

######

From: pechter@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: 3622 pages of TOPS-10 V7.04 HTML docs
Date: 13 Apr 2001 19:30:31 -0400
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Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:4594

In article <zTKA6.851$Hp.39894@typhoon.aracnet.com>,
Zane H. Healy <healyzh@shell1.aracnet.com> wrote:
>I doubt it's that bad.  I just don't know how to go from source to
>Postscript.  Once I've got a Postscript file I can just drop that on the
>Acrobat Distiller Icon on my Mac's desktop.  Plus as Tim pointed out it can
>be done with Ghostscript on UNIX.

One of the easiest way is to print to a postscript printer
from the ascii document with MS-Windows set to postscript printer on 
port FILE:.

This creates postscript from text under Windows of all varients.
Also Wordstar could do similar tricks under CP/M and MS-DOS

Under FreeBSD on this machine i've got the following tools on my machine.

dvips(1)                 - convert a TeX DVI file to PostScript
enscript(1)              - convert text files to PostScript
grops(1)                 - PostScript driver for groff
gs(1)                    - Ghostscript (PostScript and PDF language interpreter and previewer)
gsnd(1)                  - Run ghostscript (PostScript and PDF engine) without display
html2ps(1)               - convert HTML to PostScript
mp(1)                    - POSTSCRIPT pretty printer
pdf2dsc(1)               - generate a PostScript page list of a PDF document
pdf2ps(1)                - Ghostscript PDF to PostScript translator
ps2ascii(1)              - Ghostscript translator from PostScript or PDF to ASCII
ps2epsi(1)               - generate conforming Encapsulated PostScript
ps2pdf(1)                - Convert PostScript to PDF using ghostscript ps2pdf12
ps2pdfwr(1)              - Convert PostScript to PDF without specifying CompatibilityLevel, using ghostscript
psmerge(1)               - filter to merge several PostScript files into one
psorder(1)               - PostScript pageorder filter
psroff(1)                - sent troff to PostScript printer
psselect(1)              - select pages from a PostScript file
pstops(1)                - shuffle pages in a PostScript file
pdftops(1)               - Portable Document Format (PDF) to PostScript converter (version 0.80)
pnmtops(1)               - convert portable anymap to PostScript
psidtopgm(1)             - convert PostScript image data into a portable graymap
pstopnm(1)               - convert a PostScript file into a portable anymap



-- 
bpechter@monmouth.com    | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10  
Brainbench MVP           | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2
Unix Sys.Admin.          | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour"
-- 
-- 
bpechter@monmouth.com    | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10  
Brainbench MVP           | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2
Unix Sys.Admin.          | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour"

######

From: not-a-real-address@usa.net (those who know me have no need of my name)
Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10
Subject: Re: 3622 pages of TOPS-10 V7.04 HTML docs
Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:27:45 -0000
Organization: earthfriends
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<zTKA6.851$Hp.39894@typhoon.aracnet.com> divulged:

>Once I've got a Postscript file I can just drop that on the
>Acrobat Distiller Icon on my Mac's desktop.  

once you decide that os x is worth installing you too can get postscript
from various sources, including "enscript(1) - convert text files to
PostScript".

-- 
okay, have a sig then