From: "Heinz Wolter" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: reward for Tim Lines: 59 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 16:34:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.230.151.178 X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 983810065 64.230.151.178 (Mon, 05 Mar 2001 11:34:25 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 11:34:25 EST Organization: Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news3.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3417 I am eagerly awaiting sourceforge's TS10 availability, and I think, like it was suggested here, that having a small reward for Tim's perseverance would be appropriate. I'd like to thank everyone who participated in this joint debugging effort - as Tim could not have finished it without access to a good number of PDP10 gurus, regular contributors to this NG, and lurkers that magically provided answers to bizarre problems. I've read the entire NG archive since I first saw mention of a PDP10 emulator in 1998 - the story unfolding is an interesting read. I expect there's still some documentation work, an install FAQ etc and that there will be some traffic in this NG as more people try to get TS10 running. But it looks like a good cooperative crowd. I suggest if Tim is willing to post a PO box or his address, anyone who wishes could send a gift (cash seems best) of whatever size they deem appropriate, anonymous of not. Perhaps Tim could have enough to buy a nice 1.4Ghz Athlon and speed up the debugging and improvements on TS10, KL and Vax additions. Personally, I'm donating a KA630 CPU Module User's guide but it doesn't seem enough considering the effort that went into TS10, so I'll contribute cash as well. Being a PDP10 newbie (but PDP11 collector) - never having actually run TOPS or laid hands on a working Kx10 - this emulator has renewed my interest in getting my Decsystem 20 (currently in storage) running. I've got no Massbus RP drives, but I think with some borrowed code, hardware hacking, I could convince a linux box to be an RP06. After all, Tim built a complete processor with emulated peripherals! I plan to display it (and the PDP11s) in a sort of museum, and offer the live machines on public telnets. Maybe the kiddies will realize that "computer" means more than a Taiwan Intel box running Bill's latest crap...Online Corewars, ADVENT, what a blast from the past! Will anybody really care? I've seen some mentions of Neil Franklins FPGA project, which seems intriguing- but I have little interest in a KA-class novetly. I'd be more interested in a small FPGA based KS/KL with loadable microcode (stock DEC or ITS) that fits on a PCI card, that can be plugged into any PC and have the fpga and linux emulate the I/Os and disk. Why duplicate a keyboard, screen, disk, etherNIC? If Neil takes too long, I'll have to do it myself... Regards to all, and Thanks! Heinz Wolter ###### From: Timothy Stark Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: reward for Tim Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 00:36:41 -0000 Message-ID: References: User-Agent: tin/1.4.2-20000205 ("Possession") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.17 (i686)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 19 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news.tele.dk!216.218.192.242!news.he.net!sn-xit-03!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3404 Heinz Wolter wrote: > Personally, I'm donating a KA630 CPU Module User's guide but it doesn't > seem enough considering the effort that went into TS10, ... Hmmm. I was told that KA630 CPU Module User's guide contains information about local I/O register programming, etc from comp.os.vms newsgroup. Compaq engineer gave me his advice to read that after I posted my question on comp.os.vms newsgroup. Thank you! -- Tim Stark -- Timothy Stark <>< Inet: sword7@speakeasy.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible) ###### From: "Heinz Wolter" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 References: Subject: Re: reward for Tim Lines: 44 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:07:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.230.151.178 X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 983884068 64.230.151.178 (Tue, 06 Mar 2001 08:07:48 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 08:07:48 EST Organization: Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.dplanet.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news3.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3415 There seems to be some info on the processor registers (ref Vax Architecture Reference Manual EK-VAXAR-RM, I expect a 780 manual - though I have a small 5"x8" white book labelled "Vax Achitecture Handbook". 63 registers are defined including console uarts, SBI, WCS and microprgram contrlos. Note that MVII (KA630-AA) can have upto 9Mb local-bus memory - on the ribbon cable bus. Also the Qbus (Q22) is available and mapped by qty 8192 mapping registers and may contain memory or I/O which is of course memory mapped. It it interesting to note that the CPU was one of the first complete CPU's entirely designed from an HDL compiler (I think was Genesil). Major differences between 780/750/30 machines and MVII were that 7xx had unibus adapters. Disks were typically on a MASSBUS adapater Some considerations - if you're after a MVII emulation - though I suggest you're better off with a 780 - you need to consider a DEQNA ether card, and RQDX2 or 3 (MSCP controllers) and hideous RD5x series MFM drive. Better yet a KDA disk controller and RA61 or RA81s. The standard tape on this machine was TQK50 and the TK50 tape drive. The actual CPU board sports 2 bytewide bootroms, 2 8k srams and a PC style 146818 clock. "Timothy Stark" wrote in message news:ta8c8ptc1tp10c@corp.supernews.com... > Heinz Wolter wrote: > > Personally, I'm donating a KA630 CPU Module User's guide but it doesn't > > seem enough considering the effort that went into TS10, ... > > Hmmm. I was told that KA630 CPU Module User's guide contains information > about local I/O register programming, etc from comp.os.vms newsgroup. > Compaq engineer gave me his advice to read that after I posted > my question on comp.os.vms newsgroup. > > Thank you! > > -- Tim Stark > > -- > Timothy Stark <>< Inet: sword7@speakeasy.org > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that > whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. > Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible) ###### From: Timothy Stark Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: reward for Tim Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:36:51 -0000 Message-ID: References: User-Agent: tin/1.4.2-20000205 ("Possession") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.17 (i686)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 49 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3408 Heinz Wolter wrote: > There seems to be some info on the processor registers (ref > Vax Architecture Reference Manual EK-VAXAR-RM, I expect > a 780 manual - though I have a small 5"x8" white book labelled > "Vax Achitecture Handbook". 63 registers are defined including > console uarts, SBI, WCS and microprgram contrlos. Note that > MVII (KA630-AA) can have upto 9Mb local-bus memory - > on the ribbon cable bus. Also the Qbus (Q22) is available and mapped by > qty 8192 mapping registers and may contain memory or I/O which > is of course memory mapped. It it interesting to note that the CPU > was one of the first complete CPU's entirely designed from an HDL > compiler (I think was Genesil). > Major differences between 780/750/30 machines and MVII were that 7xx > had unibus adapters. Disks were typically on a MASSBUS adapater > Some considerations - if you're after a MVII emulation - though I suggest > you're better off with a 780 - you need to consider a DEQNA ether card, > and RQDX2 or 3 (MSCP controllers) and hideous RD5x series MFM drive. > Better yet a KDA disk controller and RA61 or RA81s. The standard tape > on this machine was TQK50 and the TK50 tape drive. The actual CPU > board sports 2 bytewide bootroms, 2 8k srams and a PC style 146818 clock. Hmmm. It looks like 780 machines is more compatible with my TS10 emulator sources! Yes, I am working on both models - 780 and MVII. I have to find more programing guides about RQDX2/3 controllers, DEUNA/DEQNA, etc. I already have programming guides with RH11 with RPxx and RMxx and TUxx, and DZ11, and LP20. DZ11 and LP20 are not finished on my TS10 emulator yet. With my TS10 emulator, it has almost complete RH11 emulation. (RM pack drive emulation is not finished). My TS10 emulator supports RP06 and TU45 emulation at this time. That's why I still need a copy of KA630 manual to develop Q22 emulation and MVII emulation as well. Also, a 780 manual as well. Also, I only have VAX Architecture Reference Manual (1st Edition). That is all. Thank you! -- Tim Stark -- Timothy Stark <>< Inet: sword7@speakeasy.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible) ###### From: Arthur Krewat Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: reward for Tim Organization: Kilonet.net Lines: 34 Message-ID: <3AA4EFB8.FB402711@bartek.dontspamme.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; I; SunOS 5.8 i86pc) X-Accept-Language: en Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 14:10:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.190.219.48 X-Trace: news02.optonline.net 983887858 24.190.219.48 (Tue, 06 Mar 2001 09:10:58 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 09:10:58 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.dplanet.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!news-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!news01.optonline.net!news02.optonline.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3406 Timothy Stark wrote: > > Hmmm. It looks like 780 machines is more compatible with my TS10 emulator > sources! Yes, I am working on both models - 780 and MVII. I have to find > more programing guides about RQDX2/3 controllers, DEUNA/DEQNA, etc. I > already have programming guides with RH11 with RPxx and RMxx and TUxx, > and DZ11, and LP20. DZ11 and LP20 are not finished on my TS10 emulator > yet. > > With my TS10 emulator, it has almost complete RH11 emulation. (RM pack > drive emulation is not finished). My TS10 emulator supports RP06 > and TU45 emulation at this time. > > That's why I still need a copy of KA630 manual to develop Q22 emulation > and MVII emulation as well. Also, a 780 manual as well. > > Also, I only have VAX Architecture Reference Manual (1st Edition). That is > all. Tim, I haven't forgotten about you. If you tell me which manuals you want for the hardware (RQ, DEUNA/DEQNA, etc) first, I'll see if I have them in microfiche and get them printed. I have some handbooks: Vax hardware handbook, '82-'83 Vax11/780 Hardware handbook '79-'80 Vax11 Architecture handbook '79-'80 Any of these help? thanks! art k. ###### Sender: prep@k9 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: reward for Tim References: From: Paul Repacholi Date: 07 Mar 2001 00:02:10 +0800 Message-ID: <87n1ayhon1.fsf@prep.synonet.com> Lines: 17 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: 202.61.201.144 X-Trace: 6 Mar 2001 23:17:08 +0800, 202.61.201.144 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!blackbush.xlink.net!bignews.mediaways.net!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!news.waia.asn.au!usenet.per.paradox.net.au!127.0.0.1!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3393 "Heinz Wolter" writes: > Some considerations - if you're after a MVII emulation - though I suggest > you're better off with a 780 - you need to consider a DEQNA ether card, The BIG difference, is that the MVII is a Vax subset implementation. I was about to say first, but Seahorse wins that one. It has a funky context save on subset instructions you will need to do. The 780 or 750 are straight forward Isn set wise. 780 is an odd ball for interupts though. -- Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda. West Australia 6076 Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: reward for Tim Date: 06 Mar 2001 21:55:42 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 69 Message-ID: <6uae6y8vn5.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 983912143 561 10.0.3.2 (6 Mar 2001 20:55:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Mar 2001 20:55:43 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3420 "Heinz Wolter" writes: > this emulator has renewed my interest in > getting > my Decsystem 20 (currently in storage) running. Good. Getting an real one to work is definitely a worthy thing to do. > but I think with some borrowed code, hardware hacking, I could convince a > linux > box to be an RP06. After all, Tim built a complete processor with emulated > peripherals! But you need to make an hardware interface, that sits on the 20s Massbus. And have your Linux system react to it in real time. That is one problem Tim did not have. > I've seen some mentions of Neil Franklins FPGA project, which seems > intriguing- > but I have little interest in a KA-class novetly. KI, not KA. I want the paging box. > I'd be more interested in > a small FPGA based KS/KL KI->KL is, as far as using it is concerned, mainly the wider addresses. KL->KS dropped them again. So where is the great KI->KL advantage? EXTEND? The PDP-11s (or 8080 on KS)? > with loadable microcode (stock DEC or ITS) What advantage does that bring in 2001? In the 1970s microcode replaced lost of small logic chips for hardwired logic with a smaller amount of higher integrated memory chips for microcode store. But today it will mainly slow down an FPGA based design, due to getting on and off the FPGA and memory chips. > that fits on a PCI card, > that can be plugged into any PC and have the fpga and linux emulate the I/Os > and disk. > Why duplicate a keyboard, screen, disk, etherNIC? Doesn't putting an FPGA board inside an PC for IO sort of get rid of the main advantage of the FPGA: to not be dependant on a PC like an emulator is? To run PDP-10 on an PC is perfectly possible with the TS-10. > If Neil takes too long, > I'll have to do it myself... It took 6 emulator projects until one got through (and a second is following). So there is definitely enough room for an second clone project. And if you really do do it with microcode, it would be interesting to after have the 2 designs to compare. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng FH/BSc, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: "Zane H. Healy" Subject: Re: reward for Tim Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 References: Organization: Aracnet User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.18 (i686)) Lines: 23 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 21:59:04 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.99.193.21 X-Complaints-To: news@aracnet.com X-Trace: typhoon.aracnet.com 983915944 216.99.193.21 (Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:59:04 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:59:04 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news.he.net!typhoon.aracnet.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3435 Heinz Wolter wrote: > Some considerations - if you're after a MVII emulation - though I suggest > you're better off with a 780 - you need to consider a DEQNA ether card, > and RQDX2 or 3 (MSCP controllers) and hideous RD5x series MFM drive. > Better yet a KDA disk controller and RA61 or RA81s. The standard tape > on this machine was TQK50 and the TK50 tape drive. The actual CPU > board sports 2 bytewide bootroms, 2 8k srams and a PC style 146818 clock. I'd personally recommend a KDA50 with RA73's and RA74's (nice and big). Finding complete enough MSCP documentation is likely to be a problem, and there are some pesky licensing issues with MSCP (though the time limit on that is almost up, IIRC). The downside of this being that the best way to get the OS onto the system will either be using TK50 images or some method of accessing an OpenVMS CD-ROM. I know I'd personally like to be able to mount CD's in the emulator, which I'm guessing is a real trick to get working. Also hooks that would allow it to work with PCI-to-QBUS or PCI-to-UNIBUS adapter (with the necessary code to be added at a latter date) might be a good idea if you want this to have more than just hobbyist applications. Zane ###### From: Timothy Stark Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: reward for Tim Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 01:28:52 -0000 Message-ID: References: User-Agent: tin/1.4.2-20000205 ("Possession") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.17 (i686)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3445 Zane H. Healy wrote: > I'd personally recommend a KDA50 with RA73's and RA74's (nice and big). > Finding complete enough MSCP documentation is likely to be a problem, and > there are some pesky licensing issues with MSCP (though the time limit on > that is almost up, IIRC). Hmmm. Does MSCP implementation requires license? MicroVAX II requires RQDX3 disk controller to support disk drives, floppy drives, and CD drives. (KDA50 is Q22-bus and UDA50 is Unibus) > The downside of this being that the best way to get the OS onto the system > will either be using TK50 images or some method of accessing an OpenVMS > CD-ROM. I know I'd personally like to be able to mount CD's in the emulator, > which I'm guessing is a real trick to get working. Yes, I like to able to mount CD's in my emulator but it requires RQDX3 controller implementation. It is the RDD54 read-only drive. For TK50 images, it need TQK50 controller programming guides to implement. > Also hooks that would allow it to work with PCI-to-QBUS or PCI-to-UNIBUS > adapter (with the necessary code to be added at a latter date) might be a > good idea if you want this to have more than just hobbyist applications. Hmmm. That is new to me. I will add that to my emulator later after I finish both PDP-10 and VAX emulator. -- Tim Stark -- Timothy Stark <>< Inet: sword7@speakeasy.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible) ###### From: Timothy Stark Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: reward for Tim Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 01:31:10 -0000 Message-ID: References: User-Agent: tin/1.4.2-20000205 ("Possession") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.17 (i686)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!sn-xit-01!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3442 Heinz Wolter wrote: > Major differences between 780/750/30 machines and MVII were that 7xx > had unibus adapters. Disks were typically on a MASSBUS adapater > Some considerations - if you're after a MVII emulation - though I suggest > you're better off with a 780 - you need to consider a DEQNA ether card, > and RQDX2 or 3 (MSCP controllers) and hideous RD5x series MFM drive. > Better yet a KDA disk controller and RA61 or RA81s. The standard tape > on this machine was TQK50 and the TK50 tape drive. The actual CPU > board sports 2 bytewide bootroms, 2 8k srams and a PC style 146818 clock. Also, VAX 8600 series have Unibus adapters. -- Tim Stark -- Timothy Stark <>< Inet: sword7@speakeasy.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible) ###### From: Timothy Stark Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: reward for Tim Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 01:41:07 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3AA4EFB8.FB402711@bartek.dontspamme.net> User-Agent: tin/1.4.2-20000205 ("Possession") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.17 (i686)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 38 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!grolier!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3443 Arthur Krewat wrote: > Tim, I haven't forgotten about you. If you tell me which manuals you want > for the hardware (RQ, DEUNA/DEQNA, etc) first, I'll see if I have them > in microfiche and get them printed. > I have some handbooks: > Vax hardware handbook, '82-'83 > Vax11/780 Hardware handbook '79-'80 > Vax11 Architecture handbook '79-'80 I already have VAX Architecture Handbook '87. Yes, that is fine with me. If you can find TQK50, RQ, KDA50/UDA50, DEUNA/DEQNA, etc for programming guides, let me know. My RP06 emulation is MASSBUS drive but some info needed to implemented MASSBUS adaptor for 730/750/780 machines. I just run Dhrystone 1.1/2.1 on my own 800Mhz system with Red Hat 7.0. For your curious, I just ran dhrystone 1.1/2.1 to find interesting results. Dhry 1.1 - VAX MIPS rating: 1012 Dhrystones/Sec: est 1,700,000. Dhry 2.1 - VAX MIPS rating: 882 Dhrystones/Sec: est 1,580,000. That means my system is 1000 times faster than VAX-11/780! :-) -- Tim Stark -- Timothy Stark <>< Inet: sword7@speakeasy.org -------------------------------------------------------------------------- "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. Amen." -- John 3:16 (King James Version Bible) ###### From: "Zane H. Healy" Subject: Re: reward for Tim Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 References: Organization: Aracnet User-Agent: tin/1.4.4-20000803 ("Vet for the Insane") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.18 (i686)) Lines: 43 Message-ID: <6Tgp6.320$a3.12332@typhoon.aracnet.com> Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 02:17:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.99.193.21 X-Complaints-To: news@aracnet.com X-Trace: typhoon.aracnet.com 983931458 216.99.193.21 (Tue, 06 Mar 2001 18:17:38 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 18:17:38 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.dplanet.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!grolier!btnet-peer0!btnet!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news.he.net!typhoon.aracnet.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3437 Timothy Stark wrote: > Hmmm. Does MSCP implementation requires license? If my memory is working, it does. However, the (let's see IIRC, it's a patent) runs out this year I believe. So by the time you were to get this running it would be a non-issue most likely. > MicroVAX II requires > RQDX3 disk controller to support disk drives, floppy drives, and CD > drives. (KDA50 is Q22-bus and UDA50 is Unibus) You can connect Disk Drives and RX50's to a standard RQDX3, if it's a new enough revision it will also take RX33 floppy drives. In order to hook a CD-ROM up to a Q-Bus system you require either a special CD-ROM interface board. I think it's the following: M7552 KRP50 Q RRD40-HP/-HD/RRD50 Controller Module M7552 (also KRQ50-AA, KRQ50-SA, KRQ50-SF) M7552 Refs: EK-RRD50-UG, EK-RRD50-PS There is also a UNIBUS version for a RRD50. The other way you can attach a CD-ROM is with a SCSI controller, if you can find a controller of the right revision. I've got a MicroVAX III (the MicroVAX III was basically a KA650 CPU and memory in a MicroVAX II box), and I use a KDA50 in it because I need big drives, and don't want the expense of SCSI (I keep my SCSI controllers for my PDP-11's). >> Also hooks that would allow it to work with PCI-to-QBUS or PCI-to-UNIBUS >> adapter (with the necessary code to be added at a latter date) might be a >> good idea if you want this to have more than just hobbyist applications. > Hmmm. That is new to me. I will add that to my emulator later after > I finish both PDP-10 and VAX emulator. I'd only mentioned it as something you *might* want to plan for in the far future :^) Definitly don't need to try to support such devices initially. I think Strobe Data is one of the manufacturers of such devices (I believe you can find links on www.dbit.com). Zane ###### From: jfrancis@dungeon.engr.sgi.com (John Francis) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: reward for Tim Date: 7 Mar 2001 19:03:45 GMT Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA Lines: 45 Message-ID: <9860mh$1j74v$1@fido.engr.sgi.com> References: <3AA4EFB8.FB402711@bartek.dontspamme.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: dungeon.engr.sgi.com X-Trace: fido.engr.sgi.com 983991825 1678495 130.62.53.248 (7 Mar 2001 19:03:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@fido.engr.sgi.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Mar 2001 19:03:45 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!enews.sgi.com!fido.engr.sgi.com!dungeon.engr.sgi.com!jfrancis Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3427 In article , Timothy Stark wrote: > >For your curious, I just ran dhrystone 1.1/2.1 to find interesting >results. > >Dhry 1.1 - VAX MIPS rating: 1012 Dhrystones/Sec: est 1,700,000. >Dhry 2.1 - VAX MIPS rating: 882 Dhrystones/Sec: est 1,580,000. > >That means my system is 1000 times faster than VAX-11/780! That's what Moore's law does for you. But the visibility of this to the average bit-twiddler is a comparitvely recent phenomenon. For about twenty years I had access to about the same amount of computer power (albeit in increasingly convenient fashion) to wit: o University Computer Lab - Atlas (with the occasional chance to get my hands on a 360/44 for an hour or two). o First paying job - A DECsystem-10 (KA 10). I could get the machine to myself sometimes over the weekends. o KA-10s (and, eventually, time on a 2040) while working for DEC in the UK, and a 2020 when I moved to the US. o A VAX-11/780 when I strayed from the one true path :-) and moved over to the Technical Languages group. This machine only served a small group of us, so getting all of the system resources wasn't too hard. o Individual workstations at Apollo. A 68020-based box was roughly comparable to a 780 in speed, and of course there were no other users. o A 386/25 - first machine I bought for general home use. That covers, roughly speaking, more than a 20-year span. In the ensuing decade or so machines have got 1000 times faster, with 100 times as much main memory and 1000 times as much disk (while, at the same time, getting cheaper and cheaper). It's hard, occasionally, to remember that some of the engrained constraints are almost totally irrelevant to modern programmers. ###### Message-ID: <3AA69413.4DEA5FC3@iee.org> From: "antonio.carlini" Reply-To: arcarlini@iee.org X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: reward for Tim References: <6Tgp6.320$a3.12332@typhoon.aracnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 33 Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 20:03:31 +0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.104.220.182 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 983995616 213.104.220.182 (Wed, 07 Mar 2001 20:06:56 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 20:06:56 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3516 "Zane H. Healy" wrote: > > Timothy Stark wrote: > > Hmmm. Does MSCP implementation requires license? > > If my memory is working, it does. However, the (let's see IIRC, it's a > patent) runs out this year I believe. So by the time you were to get this > running it would be a non-issue most likely. The patent (or patents, I forget exactly how many there are) run out quite soon now but the copyright on the documentation doesn't and I suspect it will be the documenation that is the stumbling block. If I were Tim I'd start by choosing a system with fewer obstacles in the way, like perhaps some of the later MicroVAX 3100 series or perhaps some of the VAX 4000 range. This would allow me to debug the VAX ISP emulation without being hampered by stuff like MSCP. Alternatively, given that MSCP and the rest of the DSSI and CI stuff is nearing the end of its useful commercial life, perhaps Tim could persuade Compaq to release the relevant docs on a not-for-profit-use basis? Antonio -- --------------- Antonio Carlini arcarlini@iee.org