From: berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie Baldock) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: O/S for PDP-10 Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:07:45 GMT Message-ID: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/16.235 Lines: 12 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.59.67.17 X-Trace: news.iinet.net.au 983574326 8037 emut7d@203.59.67.17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.per.connect.com.au!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!news.iinet.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3339 Hello Folks, I would be overjoyed to have a PDP-10 on a FPGA in my computer room. But who is going to revamp the O/S to cater for the NEW hardware peripherals: 1. VGA monitor. 2. SCSI hard drives. 3. Serial ports. 4. parallel ports. 5. Networks.........etc.....etc. A PDP-10 is not of much use without a functioning O/S which caters for these devices. --Rolie Baldock. email: Subtract one thousand and nine for direct email ###### From: R.J.S. Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 Organization: Very Organized Message-ID: <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.168.1.2 X-Original-Trace: 2 Mar 2001 19:09:50 -0500, 192.168.1.2 Lines: 30 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 18:10:34 CST X-Trace: sv2-gMlJ2H385mqCfWOiXjVxGBVrK+9esSa5SaU/rnpXPUhkktOIFqDxas5bX3v61gHuj1gyKxI4QABMFhN!+8cU0tk3dhlR5Zwp0YdbByvQjsfesA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:09:50 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.dplanet.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!wn3feed!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!207.207.0.27!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!barn.net1plus.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3352 On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:07:45 GMT, berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie Baldock) wrote: >Hello Folks, > >I would be overjoyed to have a PDP-10 on a FPGA in my computer room. >But who is going to revamp the O/S to cater for the NEW hardware >peripherals: 1. VGA monitor. 2. SCSI hard drives. 3. Serial ports. >4. parallel ports. 5. Networks.........etc.....etc. A PDP-10 is not >of much use without a functioning O/S which caters for these devices. > > >--Rolie Baldock. email: > >Subtract one thousand and nine for direct email I think you are going in the wrong direction on this. It might be better to have the FPGA simply run by itself unless it addresses some special locations or it executes certain instructions. Then something like Tim's emulator takes over and simulates the devices already in the current O/S. Altera makes a really nice PCI based board that can have 64 MEG of ram on it, and a full PCI interface, the entire "10" would be on the board and when I/O instructions executed, the cpu would stall, and the host system could figure out the right thing to do. I think this approach is much more workable, and quite a bit faster to implement. ###### Message-ID: <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> From: Ken McMonigal X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 151 Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 00:42:38 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.242.127.76 X-Complaints-To: abuse@bcpl.net X-Trace: news.abs.net 983598114 208.242.127.76 (Sat, 03 Mar 2001 00:41:54 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 00:41:54 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.mathworks.com!feeder.qis.net!nntp.abs.net!news.abs.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3317 "R.J.S." wrote: > > On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:07:45 GMT, berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie > Baldock) wrote: > > >Hello Folks, > > > >I would be overjoyed to have a PDP-10 on a FPGA in my computer room. > >But who is going to revamp the O/S to cater for the NEW hardware > >peripherals: 1. VGA monitor. 2. SCSI hard drives. 3. Serial ports. > >4. parallel ports. 5. Networks.........etc.....etc. A PDP-10 is not > >of much use without a functioning O/S which caters for these devices. > > > > > >--Rolie Baldock. email: > > > >Subtract one thousand and nine for direct email > > I think you are going in the wrong direction on this. > > It might be better to have the FPGA simply run by itself unless it > addresses some special locations or it executes certain instructions. > Then something like Tim's emulator takes over and simulates the > devices already in the current O/S. > > Altera makes a really nice PCI based board that can have 64 MEG of ram > on it, and a full PCI interface, the entire "10" would be on the board > and when I/O instructions executed, the cpu would stall, and the host > system could figure out the right thing to do. > > I think this approach is much more workable, and quite a bit faster to > implement. Thanks for the info. As I massage my arm due to soreness from patting myself on my back from posting a suggestion like this PCI board solution earlier, I am glad that others are coming forward with the concrete suggestions, as I had only made a vague one suggesting putting one or more chips, IIRC, on a PCI board. :) But I won't say that Rolie might not be able to skin the cat another way. Now I won't pretend that I followed all the technical details of several threads regarding front-ends, Kermit, Telnet, etc. However from a more vague & larger perspective, it seems that as you have to have the peripherals & Rolie was reluctant to implement FPGA on PCI board (see Rolie's earlier post), the possibility would be to have a stand-alone small FPGA box that communicates via serial communications (Rolie _has_ to use _some_ pins & "code" on FPGA for I/O) to a minimal PC to access the peripherals. The FPGA-10 (my phraseology ala TS-10) could then be an application server in which all I/O is routed through the F.E., which could probably be anything as long as RS-232 protocols were followed. While this would not be as pure a model as Mr. Stark's emulator, it would nonetheless bring the -10 back from the nebulous software realm back into something one could touch like the TOAD. As I have some software/hardware prototyping experience, what I envision is taking a PC box and re-orienting so that the top (or side) looks like the one- or two- bay (perhaps wrong nomenclature - 19" racks?) basic processor unit. It would stand about 19" high, be about 19" wide, & 6" deep. This would be a scale model of a KA-10 2-rack system, IIRC. (factor of 6 in any dimension, close enough for government work) Spray-paint case black & detail with white paint and your favorite color of -10 blue or whatever (or even decal) for the appropriate model. (BTW, any links/URLs/previously not-online color pix for KA-10 line?) Drill holes for lights/buttons. As the box would probably have its own power supply inside for the FPGA board, LEDS would not necessarily be needed to be used to save power. Oh yeah, Christmas tree lights are a possibility (just spitballing it here). For our Dec/DEC/Digital people or scroungers, do we have a supply for those switches. I know that some were definitely rockers. Were any just the cheaper PDP-11 style on later model? We could possible scrounge larger pool of PDP 11-45 (?) or other model & somehow paint them (hopefully not by hand). Of course, if we had to, we could use those SPDT (?) mini-switches from Radio-Crap that have multiple color plastic covers that we could use. (example- switch covers= blue-white-blue blue-white-blue ... for 36 bits) Would we actually use working switches? If so, the Rolie would have to figure out how to get info from switches & out to lights. Again, this could be done by F.E., but another port might be needed. IMHO, these could be handled easier by Rolie's chip, albeit at the expense of valuable I/O pins. IIRC, there was a key switch on front panel (yes?) which could be gotten from old PC's. The most problematic, yet fun & old-style computer thing is the whizzing/ whurring DEC-tapes. I do have a small motor that I could use with audio tape on the outside & some fake rigging on the inside. One could insert code somewhere to output random voltage (speed/direction) to the motor - but this might involve D/A conversion & complicate things unnecessarily. And really stretching it, I suppose you could do a fake thing with paper tape, as well. What else was on the front panel? Power button? And of course there was the front end plus ledge or console table thing that jutted out.(PDP-6 & PDP-10 KA-10 only?) Was there a name for that? It would seem that the detailing of the console might be reserved for only the most dedicated "hobbyist/modeler". Godspeed, FPGA team. May the success of Mr. Stark's TS-10 emulator spur you on as an example, that with proper interest/ motivation, great things can be done (re-done?). Ken --- The Algol compiler used at Case Institute of Technology, after finding 25 errors in the source (e.g., like you spelled BEGIN as BEGNI), would print: "At this point, we suggest you try re-reading the manual." ###### Message-ID: <3AA08B9E.B19EB776@mail.bcpl.net> From: Ken McMonigal X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype; sorry in advance References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 32 Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 01:13:50 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.242.127.76 X-Complaints-To: abuse@bcpl.net X-Trace: news.abs.net 983599986 208.242.127.76 (Sat, 03 Mar 2001 01:13:06 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 01:13:06 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!news.abs.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3321 Ken McMonigal wrote: > > "R.J.S." wrote: > > > > On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:07:45 GMT, berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie > > Baldock) wrote: > > > > >Hello Folks, > > > > > >I would be overjoyed to have a PDP-10 on a FPGA in my computer room. > > >But who is going to revamp the O/S to cater for the NEW hardware > > >peripherals: 1. VGA monitor. 2. SCSI hard drives. 3. Serial ports. > > >4. parallel ports. 5. Networks.........etc.....etc. A PDP-10 is not > > >of much use without a functioning O/S which caters for these devices. > > > > > > > > >--Rolie Baldock. email: > > > (my response) With only four hours of sleep and a rather long post, on reviewing actual post to newsgroup, I realized some ambiguities, mistakes & downright misattributions. I was too lazy to look up that Mr. Franklin is leading the FPGA project, IIRC. (my news-server only is leaving a couple weeks of -10 stuff on; have we heard from you lately, Mr. Franklin?) Ken ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype; sorry in advance Date: 04 Mar 2001 00:01:17 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 87 Message-ID: <6u7l26e9tu.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3AA08B9E.B19EB776@mail.bcpl.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 983660477 3248 10.0.3.2 (3 Mar 2001 23:01:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Mar 2001 23:01:17 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3355 Ken McMonigal writes: > Ken McMonigal wrote: > > > > "R.J.S." wrote: > > > > > > On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:07:45 GMT, berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie > > > Baldock) wrote: > > > > > > >But who is going to revamp the O/S to cater for the NEW hardware > > > >peripherals: 1. VGA monitor. Together with keyboard (and mouse, if you want one) treat it as an terminal (VT05 would be contemporary for KI-10), connected to the console port, or even better emulate an switch that also alows switching to multiple normal user terminal ports - multi session. > > > >2. SCSI hard drives. Treat SCSI bus as an massbus and the drives on it as RP04/RP06/RP20. This one may require some trap&emulate stuff to implement the protocols on top of SCSI. > > > >3. Serial ports. Easy one. PDP-10 had RS232 lines. Lots of them. You can masquere an awfull lot of stuff as some of these. > > > >4. parallel ports. Assuming you are using that for connecting an printer. Emulate an PDP-10 printer interface. Or worst case an RS232 with one direction defective (sufficient for an emulated 3rd party RS232 printer). > > > >5. Networks Assuming first having implemented Ethernet (big job): - either put behind it an TCP/IP implementation that then drives emulated lines, most likely trap&emulate implemention - or emulate an NI network interface (TOPS-20 only, or possible latest TOPS-10 as someone here claimed) > > > >A PDP-10 is not > > > >of much use without a functioning O/S which caters for these devices. The only thing really missing in the original systems is bitmap graphics and sound. But even graphics should be doable with an sufficiant type of terminal being emulated. Or memory map it as an special peripheral. The MIT/ITS had something called an 340 graphics terminal. Does anyone have a good description of it? Sound I can do without. I have this PC configured to map Ctrl-G to blink screen. > I was too lazy to look up that Mr. Franklin is leading the FPGA project, > IIRC. (my news-server only is leaving a couple weeks of -10 stuff on; > have we heard from you lately, Mr. Franklin?) Last post Date: 25 Feb 2001 23:14:35 +0100 says my server. This week I am just about surviving the multiple-impact of: - cable modem faillure (gosh are 14400 modems slow, I had forgotten it) - carneval (im bed 9:00 the next day) - 2 student video projects demoing (= last minutes saving them from planning ommisions, "what, unused network sockets need activating by central services, who need to shedule a site visit?") - vernissage of the book of one group I work for (the drink was good) - taking an 21 workstation teaching room apart (heavy physical work) - user group meeting with restaurant visit (home 1:00 next day) - still (just) keeping up with reading 3 mailing lists an 6 news groups I think I am still alive. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng FH/BSc, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie Baldock) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 22:26:32 GMT Message-ID: <3aa16efc.3720399@news.m.iinet.net.au> References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/16.235 Lines: 41 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.59.69.168 X-Trace: news.iinet.net.au 983658254 23801 emut7d@203.59.69.168 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!EU.net!blackbush.xlink.net!bignews.mediaways.net!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!news.iinet.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3363 Haven't you read of the intention to put a KA/KI on a FPGA chip recently on this NG. I think it was Eric Kelly who is going to do it. In that case you message is irelevant to my question. On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 19:09:50 -0500, R.J.S. wrote: >On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:07:45 GMT, berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie >Baldock) wrote: > >>Hello Folks, >> >>I would be overjoyed to have a PDP-10 on a FPGA in my computer room. >>But who is going to revamp the O/S to cater for the NEW hardware >>peripherals: 1. VGA monitor. 2. SCSI hard drives. 3. Serial ports. >>4. parallel ports. 5. Networks.........etc.....etc. A PDP-10 is not >>of much use without a functioning O/S which caters for these devices. >> >> >>--Rolie Baldock. email: >> >>Subtract one thousand and nine for direct email > >I think you are going in the wrong direction on this. > >It might be better to have the FPGA simply run by itself unless it >addresses some special locations or it executes certain instructions. >Then something like Tim's emulator takes over and simulates the >devices already in the current O/S. > >Altera makes a really nice PCI based board that can have 64 MEG of ram >on it, and a full PCI interface, the entire "10" would be on the board >and when I/O instructions executed, the cpu would stall, and the host >system could figure out the right thing to do. > >I think this approach is much more workable, and quite a bit faster to >implement. --Rolie Baldock. email: Subtract one thousand and nine for direct email ###### From: berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie Baldock) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 22:33:56 GMT Message-ID: <3aa17069.4085815@news.m.iinet.net.au> References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/16.235 Lines: 167 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.59.69.168 X-Trace: news.iinet.net.au 983658702 23801 emut7d@203.59.69.168 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.dplanet.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!bignews.mediaways.net!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!news.iinet.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3361 Hello Ken, We have enough info from Tom Stockebrand and others in this NG to put DECTAPEs on a KI/KA ten. Moreover we could make the controller much simpler using currently available microcontrollers. I am hoping that Eric's KA/KI ten on a FPGA chip will hit the scene soon and hopefully I can build one from his design details which he promised to make available. VIVE ERIC !!!!!!!!!!!!!! On Sat, 03 Mar 2001 00:42:38 -0500, Ken McMonigal wrote: >"R.J.S." wrote: >> >> On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:07:45 GMT, berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie >> Baldock) wrote: >> >> >Hello Folks, >> > >> >I would be overjoyed to have a PDP-10 on a FPGA in my computer room. >> >But who is going to revamp the O/S to cater for the NEW hardware >> >peripherals: 1. VGA monitor. 2. SCSI hard drives. 3. Serial ports. >> >4. parallel ports. 5. Networks.........etc.....etc. A PDP-10 is not >> >of much use without a functioning O/S which caters for these devices. >> > >> > >> >--Rolie Baldock. email: >> > >> >Subtract one thousand and nine for direct email >> >> I think you are going in the wrong direction on this. >> >> It might be better to have the FPGA simply run by itself unless it >> addresses some special locations or it executes certain instructions. >> Then something like Tim's emulator takes over and simulates the >> devices already in the current O/S. >> >> Altera makes a really nice PCI based board that can have 64 MEG of ram >> on it, and a full PCI interface, the entire "10" would be on the board >> and when I/O instructions executed, the cpu would stall, and the host >> system could figure out the right thing to do. >> >> I think this approach is much more workable, and quite a bit faster to >> implement. > >Thanks for the info. > >As I massage my arm due to soreness from patting myself on my back >from posting a suggestion like this PCI board solution earlier, I am >glad >that others are coming forward with the concrete suggestions, as I had >only >made a vague one suggesting putting one or more chips, IIRC, on a PCI >board. :) > >But I won't say that Rolie might not be able to skin the cat another >way. > >Now I won't pretend that I followed all the technical details of several >threads >regarding front-ends, Kermit, Telnet, etc. >However from a more vague & larger perspective, it seems that as you >have to >have the peripherals & Rolie was reluctant to implement FPGA on PCI >board >(see Rolie's earlier post), the possibility would be to have a >stand-alone >small FPGA box that communicates via serial communications (Rolie _has_ >to >use _some_ pins & "code" on FPGA for I/O) to a minimal PC to access >the peripherals. > >The FPGA-10 (my phraseology ala TS-10) could then be an application >server >in which all I/O is routed through the F.E., which could probably be >anything >as long as RS-232 protocols were followed. > >While this would not be as pure a model as Mr. Stark's emulator, it >would >nonetheless bring the -10 back from the nebulous software realm back >into >something one could touch like the TOAD. > >As I have some software/hardware prototyping experience, what I envision >is taking a PC box and re-orienting so that the top (or side) looks like >the one- or two- bay (perhaps wrong nomenclature - 19" racks?) basic >processor unit. > >It would stand about 19" high, be about 19" wide, & 6" deep. This would >be a scale model of a KA-10 2-rack system, IIRC. (factor of 6 in any >dimension, >close enough for government work) > >Spray-paint case black & detail with white paint and your favorite color >of -10 blue or whatever (or even decal) for the appropriate model. >(BTW, any links/URLs/previously not-online color pix for KA-10 line?) > >Drill holes for lights/buttons. As the box would probably have its own >power supply inside for the FPGA board, LEDS would not necessarily >be needed to be used to save power. > >Oh yeah, Christmas tree lights are a possibility (just spitballing it >here). > >For our Dec/DEC/Digital people or scroungers, do we have a supply for >those >switches. I know that some were definitely rockers. Were any just the >cheaper >PDP-11 style on later model? We could possible scrounge larger pool of >PDP 11-45 (?) or other model & somehow paint them (hopefully not by >hand). >Of course, if we had to, we could use those SPDT (?) mini-switches from >Radio-Crap that have multiple color plastic covers that we could use. >(example- switch covers= blue-white-blue blue-white-blue ... for 36 >bits) > >Would we actually use working switches? If so, the Rolie would have to >figure out >how to get info from switches & out to lights. Again, this could be done >by F.E., but another port might be needed. > >IMHO, these could be handled easier by Rolie's chip, albeit at >the expense of valuable I/O pins. > >IIRC, there was a key switch on front panel (yes?) which could be gotten >from old PC's. > > >The most problematic, yet fun & old-style computer thing is the >whizzing/ >whurring DEC-tapes. I do have a small motor that I could use with >audio tape on the outside & some fake rigging on the inside. One >could insert code somewhere to output random voltage (speed/direction) >to the motor - but this might involve D/A conversion & complicate things >unnecessarily. > >And really stretching it, I suppose you could do a fake thing with >paper tape, as well. > >What else was on the front panel? > >Power button? > >And of course there was the front end plus ledge or console table thing >that jutted out.(PDP-6 & PDP-10 KA-10 only?) Was there a name for that? >It would seem that the detailing of the console might be reserved for >only >the most dedicated "hobbyist/modeler". > > >Godspeed, FPGA team. May the success of Mr. Stark's TS-10 emulator >spur you on as an example, that with proper interest/ motivation, >great things can be done (re-done?). > > >Ken >--- > The Algol compiler used at Case Institute of Technology, after >finding > 25 errors in the source (e.g., like you spelled BEGIN as BEGNI), >would > print: "At this point, we suggest you try re-reading the manual." --Rolie Baldock. email: Subtract one thousand and nine for direct email ###### From: berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie Baldock) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype; sorry in advance Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 22:37:26 GMT Message-ID: <3aa17192.4381916@news.m.iinet.net.au> References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3AA08B9E.B19EB776@mail.bcpl.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/16.235 Lines: 45 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.59.69.168 X-Trace: news.iinet.net.au 983658908 23801 emut7d@203.59.69.168 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.per.connect.com.au!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!news.iinet.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3360 My humble apologies to Mr Franklin re the KA/KI on an FPGA chip. Just too many names to remember. I was too tied up with DECTAPEs stuff and I got the names mixed up. On Sat, 03 Mar 2001 01:13:50 -0500, Ken McMonigal wrote: >Ken McMonigal wrote: >> >> "R.J.S." wrote: >> > >> > On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:07:45 GMT, berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie >> > Baldock) wrote: >> > >> > >Hello Folks, >> > > >> > >I would be overjoyed to have a PDP-10 on a FPGA in my computer room. >> > >But who is going to revamp the O/S to cater for the NEW hardware >> > >peripherals: 1. VGA monitor. 2. SCSI hard drives. 3. Serial ports. >> > >4. parallel ports. 5. Networks.........etc.....etc. A PDP-10 is not >> > >of much use without a functioning O/S which caters for these devices. >> > > >> > > >> > >--Rolie Baldock. email: >> > > > > >(my response) > >With only four hours of sleep and a rather long post, on reviewing >actual >post to newsgroup, I realized some ambiguities, mistakes & downright >misattributions. > >I was too lazy to look up that Mr. Franklin is leading the FPGA project, >IIRC. (my news-server only is leaving a couple weeks of -10 stuff on; >have we heard from you lately, Mr. Franklin?) > >Ken --Rolie Baldock. email: Subtract one thousand and nine for direct email ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype Date: 04 Mar 2001 15:08:56 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 67 Message-ID: <6uk8658w3r.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3aa17069.4085815@news.m.iinet.net.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 983714936 462 10.0.3.2 (4 Mar 2001 14:08:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Mar 2001 14:08:56 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3369 berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie Baldock) writes: > We have enough info from Tom Stockebrand and others in this NG to put > DECTAPEs on a KI/KA ten. Neat. Usually they only were on KL-10s. I like DECTAPEs since I first saw this elegantly simple device running on an PDP-8/A. > Moreover we could make the controller much > simpler using currently available microcontrollers. From the "Small Computer Handbook" 1973: ------------- TD8-E DECTAPE CONTROL The TD8-E is contained on a single quad Flip-Chip module which plugs directly into the OMNIBUS of the PDP-8/E. ------------- That looks like a simple circuit. Direct in FPGA stuff. No microprocessor, not even trap&emulate. An real old device connected. Actually given the size, the KI-10 will just about fit inside the TU-56 drive. > KA/KI ten on a FPGA chip will hit the scene soon I expect 1-2 years, depending on how much you want to wait for, before starting DECTAPEing. > and hopefully > I can build one from his design details which he promised to make > available. It will be available. Actually what already exists [1] of it is already available [2]. [1] 32 words of memory, instruction pointer and incrementer, an data bus multiplexer, 4xx binary logic instruction unit. No interconnects yet (I was going to try them today [3]), no instruction decoder or timing control yet. [2] As usual on the project web site: http://neil.franklin.ch/Projects/PDP-10/ [3] Sister just phoned and invited me for evening meal, housewarming her new flat. > VIVE ERIC !!!!!!!!!!!!!! > My humble apologies to Mr Franklin re the KA/KI on an FPGA chip. Just > too many names to remember. :-) When I first read Eric (without Kelly) I first interpreted it as Eric Smith, who I know to also be in FPGAs. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng FH/BSc, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie Baldock) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 22:00:04 GMT Message-ID: <3aa2b9c6.838485@news.m.iinet.net.au> References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3aa17069.4085815@news.m.iinet.net.au> <6uk8658w3r.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/16.235 Lines: 83 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.59.67.24 X-Trace: news.iinet.net.au 983743069 8102 emut7d@203.59.67.24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.per.connect.com.au!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!news.iinet.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3392 Hello Neil, They were on KAs andKIs but KLs had them on the front end which was an 11. There is a KL-10 front end in my workshop. But somebody has snaffled the read/write G888 boards from the DECTAPE backplane GRRR!! We don't know what else has been snaffled yet. Regards, On 04 Mar 2001 15:08:56 +0100, Neil Franklin wrote: >berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie Baldock) writes: > >> We have enough info from Tom Stockebrand and others in this NG to put >> DECTAPEs on a KI/KA ten. > >Neat. Usually they only were on KL-10s. I like DECTAPEs since I first >saw this elegantly simple device running on an PDP-8/A. > > >> Moreover we could make the controller much >> simpler using currently available microcontrollers. > >From the "Small Computer Handbook" 1973: > >------------- >TD8-E DECTAPE CONTROL > >The TD8-E is contained on a single quad Flip-Chip module which plugs >directly into the OMNIBUS of the PDP-8/E. >------------- > >That looks like a simple circuit. Direct in FPGA stuff. No >microprocessor, not even trap&emulate. > >An real old device connected. Actually given the size, the KI-10 will >just about fit inside the TU-56 drive. > > >> KA/KI ten on a FPGA chip will hit the scene soon > >I expect 1-2 years, depending on how much you want to wait for, before >starting DECTAPEing. > > >> and hopefully >> I can build one from his design details which he promised to make >> available. > >It will be available. Actually what already exists [1] of it is >already available [2]. > >[1] 32 words of memory, instruction pointer and incrementer, an data >bus multiplexer, 4xx binary logic instruction unit. No interconnects >yet (I was going to try them today [3]), no instruction decoder or >timing control yet. > >[2] As usual on the project web site: >http://neil.franklin.ch/Projects/PDP-10/ > >[3] Sister just phoned and invited me for evening meal, housewarming >her new flat. > > >> VIVE ERIC !!!!!!!!!!!!!! > >> My humble apologies to Mr Franklin re the KA/KI on an FPGA chip. Just >> too many names to remember. > >:-) > >When I first read Eric (without Kelly) I first interpreted it as Eric >Smith, who I know to also be in FPGAs. > > >-- >Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ >Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng FH/BSc, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic --Rolie Baldock. email: Subtract one thousand and nine for direct email ###### Sender: eric@ruckus.brouhaha.com From: Eric Smith Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3aa17069.4085815@news.m.iinet.net.au> <6uk8658w3r.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Disclaimer: Everything I write is false. Organization: Eric Conspiracy Secret Labs X-Eric-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy. Date: 04 Mar 2001 16:09:18 -0800 Message-ID: Lines: 18 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: ruckus.brouhaha.com X-Trace: 4 Mar 2001 16:10:03 -0800, ruckus.brouhaha.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.dplanet.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!enews.sgi.com!news.spies.com!ruckus.brouhaha.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3413 berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie Baldock) writes: >> We have enough info from Tom Stockebrand and others in this NG to put >> DECTAPEs on a KI/KA ten. Neil Franklin writes: > Neat. Usually they only were on KL-10s. False. They were on almost every PDP-6, KA10, and KI10 made. AFAIK they were a separate item on the price list, so in theory you didn't have to buy them, but I never saw a site that didn't have them. On the KL10, either a TU56 dual DECtape transport or an RX01 dual floppy drive was standard. However, these were normally used only to bootstrap the front end. With the normal operating system software, they were not mountable as normal TOPS-10 or TOPS-20 file systems. KL10s with an I/O bus interface could still use the TD10 DECtape control that was used with the KA10 and KI10. ###### From: inwap@best.com (Joe Smith) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype Date: 5 Mar 2001 22:19:40 GMT Organization: Chez Inwap Lines: 23 Message-ID: <9813ds$e0p$1@nntp1.ba.best.com> References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3aa17069.4085815@news.m.iinet.net.au> <6uk8658w3r.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: shell3.ba.best.com X-Trace: nntp1.ba.best.com 983830780 14361 206.184.139.134 (5 Mar 2001 22:19:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@best.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Mar 2001 22:19:40 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!207.172.3.44!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!news2.best.com!nntp1.ba.best.com!inwap Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3380 In article <6uk8658w3r.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin wrote: >berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie Baldock) writes: > >> We have enough info from Tom Stockebrand and others in this NG to put >> DECTAPEs on a KI/KA ten. > >Neat. Usually they only were on KL-10s. I like DECTAPEs since I first >saw this elegantly simple device running on an PDP-8/A. No, not usually on KL-10s. User-accessable DECtapes were ubiquitous on KA and KI but somewhat rare on KL. (The DECtapes that were attached to the console front-end were NOT assessable via the MOUNT command.) The Colorado School of Mines had a couple hundred student-owned DECtapes in the library when we upgrade from a KA to a KL + KS. Because we were keeping a lot of the KA peripherals, we ordered a KL-1091 with I/O-Bus adapter, and two TU55 transports. We ran into a couple of problems getting DTB defined (no problem with just a single DECtape controller; DTA). I ended up disassembling the DECtape formatter program, adding mnemonics to the re-created source, and defining a feature-test for DTA vs DTB. -- See http://www.inwap.com/ for PDP-10 and "ReBoot" pages. ###### From: Jim Thomas Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype Date: 06 Mar 2001 13:16:40 -1000 Organization: Canada France Hawai`i Telescope Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3aa17069.4085815@news.m.iinet.net.au> <6uk8658w3r.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9813ds$e0p$1@nntp1.ba.best.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: atlas.cfht.hawaii.edu X-Trace: news.hawaii.edu 983920601 29764 128.171.80.135 (6 Mar 2001 23:16:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@hawaii.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Mar 2001 23:16:41 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.6 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-hub.siol.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news.tele.dk!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!news.hawaii.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3454 >>>>> "Joe" == Joe Smith writes: Joe> I ended up disassembling the DECtape formatter program, adding mnemonics Joe> to the re-created source, and defining a feature-test for DTA vs DTB. I don't suppose you had signed the "no reverse engineering" agreement :-) Nothead ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype; sorry in advance Date: Wed, 07 Mar 01 10:00:30 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 31 Message-ID: <9855gg$f1a$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3AA08B9E.B19EB776@mail.bcpl.net> <6u7l26e9tu.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3AA59A04.9A8F7189@MA.UltraNet.Com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVa+LomKCZqKuMwrJFnprgpQ4YE0F7G2Mv1j8M056e6xalkYEB0+cGyj X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Mar 2001 11:19:44 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.dplanet.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-79 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3423 In article <3AA59A04.9A8F7189@MA.UltraNet.Com>, "Alan H. Martin" wrote: >Neil Franklin wrote: > >> > > "R.J.S." wrote: >> > > > >> > > > On Fri, 02 Mar 2001 23:07:45 GMT, berd_kalamunda@techemail.com (Rolie >> > > > Baldock) wrote: >.... >> > > > >A PDP-10 is not >> > > > >of much use without a functioning O/S which caters for these devices. >> >> The only thing really missing in the original systems is bitmap >> graphics and sound. >> >> But even graphics should be doable with an sufficiant type of terminal >> being emulated. Or memory map it as an special peripheral. The MIT/ITS >> had something called an 340 graphics terminal. Does anyone have a good >> description of it? > >http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/CUST_SUP_CUSP_BB-X130C-SB/DISSER.MA C > /AHM That filename is vaguely familiar. Is that a monitor module? /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Sender: prep@k9 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype; sorry in advance References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3AA08B9E.B19EB776@mail.bcpl.net> <6u7l26e9tu.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> From: Paul Repacholi Date: 08 Mar 2001 01:59:25 +0800 Message-ID: <87snkp794y.fsf@prep.synonet.com> Lines: 15 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) Emacs/20.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: 202.61.201.146 X-Trace: 8 Mar 2001 01:24:45 +0800, 202.61.201.146 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!bignews.mediaways.net!newsfeed.iinet.net.au!news.waia.asn.au!usenet.per.paradox.net.au!127.0.0.1!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3432 Neil Franklin writes: > But even graphics should be doable with an sufficiant type of terminal > being emulated. Or memory map it as an special peripheral. The MIT/ITS > had something called an 340 graphics terminal. Does anyone have a good > description of it? Would you like a photo? -- Paul Repacholi 1 Crescent Rd., +61 (08) 9257-1001 Kalamunda. West Australia 6076 Raw, Cooked or Well-done, it's all half baked. ###### From: jfrancis@dungeon.engr.sgi.com (John Francis) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype; sorry in advance Date: 7 Mar 2001 18:34:51 GMT Organization: Silicon Graphics, Inc., Mountain View, CA Lines: 16 Message-ID: <985v0b$1it41$1@fido.engr.sgi.com> References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3AA08B9E.B19EB776@mail.bcpl.net> <6u7l26e9tu.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <87snkp794y.fsf@prep.synonet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: dungeon.engr.sgi.com X-Trace: fido.engr.sgi.com 983990091 1668225 130.62.53.248 (7 Mar 2001 18:34:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@fido.engr.sgi.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Mar 2001 18:34:51 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!fido.engr.sgi.com!dungeon.engr.sgi.com!jfrancis Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3426 In article <87snkp794y.fsf@prep.synonet.com>, Paul Repacholi wrote: >Neil Franklin writes: > >> But even graphics should be doable with an sufficiant type of terminal >> being emulated. Or memory map it as an special peripheral. The MIT/ITS >> had something called an 340 graphics terminal. Does anyone have a good >> description of it? > > >Would you like a photo? Or, even better, go and see one. There's at least one type 340 display at the Computer Museum History Center. It's basically the same sort of display used on the PDP-1, PDP-7, etc. ###### From: aek@spies.com (Al Kossow) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype; sorry in advance Date: 7 Mar 2001 10:45:30 -0800 Organization: Spies In The Wire Lines: 15 Message-ID: <985vka$7t4$1@spies.com> References: <985v0b$1it41$1@fido.engr.sgi.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: spies.com X-Trace: 7 Mar 2001 10:46:59 -0800, spies.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!telocity-west!TELOCITY!HSNX.atgi.net!news.kjsl.com!news.spies.com!localhost!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3457 From article <985v0b$1it41$1@fido.engr.sgi.com>, by jfrancis@dungeon.engr.sgi.com (John Francis): > It's basically the same sort of display used on the PDP-1, PDP-7, etc. A type 340 controller is MUCH more sophisticated than the type 30 used on the PDP-1. It is an independent display list processor, while the type 30 was a point plot display. A scan of the type 30 display brochure can be found at http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/pdp1/ A scan of the type 339 display system can be found at http://www.spies.com/~aek/pdf/dec/pdp9/DEC339UsersManual.pdf ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype; sorry in advance Date: Sat, 10 Mar 01 10:14:18 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 37 Message-ID: <98d3f8$208$2@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3AA08B9E.B19EB776@mail.bcpl.net> <6u7l26e9tu.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3AA59A04.9A8F7189@MA.UltraNet.Com> <9855gg$f1a$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3AA97C3C.6A51E864@MA.UltraNet.Com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZyXFV6EL7b5rsr4uQNlRYnbdBU6oDkBdMoKOTFMVBtt1GDXT1J6JBe X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Mar 2001 11:34:00 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newsfeed.kpnqwest.at!nslave.kpnqwest.net!nmaster.kpnqwest.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-51 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3531 In article <3AA97C3C.6A51E864@MA.UltraNet.Com>, "Alan H. Martin" wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> In article <3AA59A04.9A8F7189@MA.UltraNet.Com>, >> "Alan H. Martin" wrote: >> >Neil Franklin wrote: >> > >> >>... The MIT/ITS >> >> had something called an 340 graphics terminal. Does anyone have a good >> >> description of it? >> > >> >http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/CUST_SUP_CUSP_BB-X130C-SB/DISSER.MA C >> >> That filename is vaguely familiar. Is that a monitor module? > >Ayuh: > >" >TITLE DISSER - DISPLAY SERVICE ROUTINE FOR TYPES 340, VP10, & 30 V045 >SUBTTL R. GRUEN/CHW/RCC/DAL 14 APR 87 >" > >Remind me, Barb - do you have web access these days? > /AHM/THX Nope. I'm still running (non)brain-damaged shit. I'm still going to the library for webbing activities...and I haven't been able to do even that for a couple of months now. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype; sorry in advance Date: Sat, 10 Mar 01 12:42:45 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 45 Message-ID: <98dc5i$7cs$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3AA08B9E.B19EB776@mail.bcpl.net> <6u7l26e9tu.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3AA59A04.9A8F7189@MA.UltraNet.Com> <9855gg$f1a$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3AA97C3C.6A51E864@MA.UltraNet.Com> <98d3f8$208$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3AAA301A.C854559F@MA.UltraNet.Com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVanx6PmlH+yaltUvm76ie8wj0WJfjX2VoNrs/DmLj0lYZdjEjLxfgec X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Mar 2001 14:02:26 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.idt.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-255-51 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3544 In article <3AAA301A.C854559F@MA.UltraNet.Com>, "Alan H. Martin" wrote: >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> In article <3AA97C3C.6A51E864@MA.UltraNet.Com>, >> "Alan H. Martin" wrote: >> >jmfbahciv@aol.com wrote: >> >> >> >http://pdp-10.trailing-edge.com/pdp-10/CUST_SUP_CUSP_BB-X130C-SB/DISSER.MA C >> >> >> >> That filename is vaguely familiar. Is that a monitor module? >.... >> >Remind me, Barb - do you have web access these days? >> >> Nope. I'm still running (non)brain-damaged shit. I'm still >> going to the library for webbing activities...and I haven't >> been able to do even that for a couple of months now. > >Bummer. > > >If you could run the character-cell Lynx web browser: > >http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Software/Internet/World_Wide_W eb/Browsers/Lynx/ > >at home, you could probably pull source files from the Trailing-Edge >archives. There may be other appropriate browsers, but I used Lynx >successfully during the 90's to browse the web from a VT100/AVO. > /AHM Since I depend on this system to access newsgroups for my daily human interaction fix, I'm not about to expose this particular system to any possibility of non-functionality. :-) When I decide to use Jim's other computer to install Linux, I'll use that to expose myself to the possibility of non-functioning. So far, I haven't liked the repercussions the couple of times I dared to use my e-mail address outside of my realm. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype; sorry in advance Date: Sun, 11 Mar 01 12:49:21 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 28 Message-ID: <98g0u9$ftf$7@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3AA08B9E.B19EB776@mail.bcpl.net> <6u7l26e9tu.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3AA59A04.9A8F7189@MA.UltraNet.Com> <9855gg$f1a$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3AA97C3C.6A51E864@MA.UltraNet.Com> <98d3f8$208$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3AAA301A.C854559F@MA.UltraNet.Com> <3AA9ECF7.48F1C53C@trailing-edge.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbZCUO6OJ6GjuZWzZcZk6MIYDd1hsg6zCSDw7nwA76xBiD1z0el8h/a X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Mar 2001 14:09:13 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!grolier!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-219 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3547 In article <3AA9ECF7.48F1C53C@trailing-edge.com>, Tim Shoppa wrote: >Alan H. Martin wrote: >> If you could run the character-cell Lynx web browser: >> >> http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Software/Internet/World_Wide_We b/Browsers/Lynx/ >> >> at home, you could probably pull source files from the Trailing-Edge >> archives. There may be other appropriate browsers, but I used Lynx >> successfully during the 90's to browse the web from a VT100/AVO. > >Browsers? You mean people aren't just telnetting to port 80? :-) > >Similarly, if we could teach Barb to telnet to port 119 on her >news server, we wouldn't hear any more complaints about her news >reading software. The complaints have become more basic. Do to circumstances beyond my control, you all are going to have cut me some slack for a while. (Besides it's fun to see somebody else do the work for a change :-)). /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype; sorry in advance Date: Sun, 11 Mar 01 12:49:21 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 28 Message-ID: <98g0u9$ftf$7@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3AA08B9E.B19EB776@mail.bcpl.net> <6u7l26e9tu.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3AA59A04.9A8F7189@MA.UltraNet.Com> <9855gg$f1a$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3AA97C3C.6A51E864@MA.UltraNet.Com> <98d3f8$208$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3AAA301A.C854559F@MA.UltraNet.Com> <3AA9ECF7.48F1C53C@trailing-edge.com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbZCUO6OJ6GjuZWzZcZk6MIYDd1hsg6zCSDw7nwA76xBiD1z0el8h/a X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Mar 2001 14:09:13 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!grolier!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-219 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3547 In article <3AA9ECF7.48F1C53C@trailing-edge.com>, Tim Shoppa wrote: >Alan H. Martin wrote: >> If you could run the character-cell Lynx web browser: >> >> http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Software/Internet/World_Wide_We b/Browsers/Lynx/ >> >> at home, you could probably pull source files from the Trailing-Edge >> archives. There may be other appropriate browsers, but I used Lynx >> successfully during the 90's to browse the web from a VT100/AVO. > >Browsers? You mean people aren't just telnetting to port 80? :-) > >Similarly, if we could teach Barb to telnet to port 119 on her >news server, we wouldn't hear any more complaints about her news >reading software. The complaints have become more basic. Do to circumstances beyond my control, you all are going to have cut me some slack for a while. (Besides it's fun to see somebody else do the work for a change :-)). /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype; sorry in advance Date: Sun, 11 Mar 01 10:45:41 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 21 Message-ID: <98fpme$mdd$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3AA08B9E.B19EB776@mail.bcpl.net> <6u7l26e9tu.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3AA59A04.9A8F7189@MA.UltraNet.Com> <9855gg$f1a$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3AA97C3C.6A51E864@MA.UltraNet.Com> <98d3f8$208$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3AAA301A.C854559F@MA.UltraNet.Com> <3AA9ECF7.48F1C53C@trailing-edge.com> <3AAA7EF1.B3FD0E61@MA.UltraNet.Com> X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZ53/15TrxHUM2AYcJ/kw8XgHI5+nksvk1uhi/nafZa6Xh8ESSNyAc9 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Mar 2001 12:05:34 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.dplanet.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-216-219 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3562 In article <3AAA7EF1.B3FD0E61@MA.UltraNet.Com>, "Alan H. Martin" wrote: >Tim Shoppa wrote: >> >> Alan H. Martin wrote: >> Similarly, if we could teach Barb to telnet to port 119 on her >> news server, we wouldn't hear any more complaints about her news >> reading software. > >If she accidentally sends LIST on a slow phone line, it'll keep her >out of trouble for a while. ROTFLMAO. > /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Message-ID: <3AA9ECF7.48F1C53C@trailing-edge.com> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 08:59:35 -0400 From: Tim Shoppa Organization: Trailing Edge Technology X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03Gold (X11; I; OpenVMS V7.2 AlphaServer 1200 5/533 4MB) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype; sorry in advance References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3AA08B9E.B19EB776@mail.bcpl.net> <6u7l26e9tu.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3AA59A04.9A8F7189@MA.UltraNet.Com> <9855gg$f1a$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3AA97C3C.6A51E864@MA.UltraNet.Com> <98d3f8$208$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3AAA301A.C854559F@MA.UltraNet.Com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.73.218.130 X-Trace: reader0.news.uu.net 984232775 11322 63.73.218.130 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!EU.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!uunet!ash.uu.net!spool0.news.uu.net!reader0.news.uu.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3577 Alan H. Martin wrote: > If you could run the character-cell Lynx web browser: > > http://dir.yahoo.com/Computers_and_Internet/Software/Internet/World_Wide_Web/Browsers/Lynx/ > > at home, you could probably pull source files from the Trailing-Edge > archives. There may be other appropriate browsers, but I used Lynx > successfully during the 90's to browse the web from a VT100/AVO. Browsers? You mean people aren't just telnetting to port 80? :-) Similarly, if we could teach Barb to telnet to port 119 on her news server, we wouldn't hear any more complaints about her news reading software. Seriously, I think telnetting to port 119 *is* better than most of the newsreading software out there. I am partial to trn, though. Tim. ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 From: Daniel Seagraves Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype; sorry in advance In-Reply-To: <3AA9ECF7.48F1C53C@trailing-edge.com> Message-ID: References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3AA08B9E.B19EB776@mail.bcpl.net> <6u7l26e9tu.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3AA59A04.9A8F7189@MA.UltraNet.Com> <9855gg$f1a$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3AA97C3C.6A51E864@MA.UltraNet.Com> <98d3f8$208$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3AAA301A.C854559F@MA.UltraNet.Com> <3AA9ECF7.48F1C53C@trailing-edge.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Lines: 17 Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:18:58 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.251.101.202 X-Trace: newsfeed.slurp.net 984284168 209.251.101.202 (Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:16:08 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:16:08 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newsfeed.kpnqwest.at!nslave.kpnqwest.net!nmaster.kpnqwest.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.slurp.net!sakura.lunar-tokyo.net!dseagrav Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:3546 On Sat, 10 Mar 2001, Tim Shoppa wrote: > Browsers? You mean people aren't just telnetting to port 80? :-) Woah, you mean I'm not the only person who does that? I can IRC, send mail, read remote nail, read and post news, and play Quake, all with my telnet client! I would use it to read web pages more often, but I can't read the garbage that FrontPage puts out. (Small wonder too - Turns out half the software designed to read HTML can't read it either!) ^_^ > Similarly, if we could teach Barb to telnet to port 119 on her > news server, we wouldn't hear any more complaints about her news > reading software. Right, we'd hear complaints about her nntpd! ^_^ ###### Message-ID: <3AF52EE6.CA2CA36B@inwap.com> From: Joe Smith Organization: Chez Inwap X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en,ja MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: O/S for PDP-10 plus PDP-10 FPGA box prototype; sorry in advance References: <3aa0266f.4659287@news.m.iinet.net.au> <3ad0at8ae9q71gtgbali4u2ttt5jiurqr2@4ax.com> <3AA0844E.A2E68512@mail.bcpl.net> <3AA08B9E.B19EB776@mail.bcpl.net> <6u7l26e9tu.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3AA59A04.9A8F7189@MA.UltraNet.Com> <9855gg$f1a$1@bob.news.rcn.net> <3AA97C3C.6A51E864@MA.UltraNet.Com> <98d3f8$208$2@bob.news.rcn.net> <3AAA301A.C854559F@MA.UltraNet.Com> <3AA9ECF7.48F1C53C@trailing-edge.com> <3AAA7EF1.B3FD0E61@MA.UltraNet.Com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 11:30:45 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.1.107.64 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com 989148645 24.1.107.64 (Sun, 06 May 2001 04:30:45 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 06 May 2001 04:30:45 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!feeder.via.net!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.sfba.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:4888 "Alan H. Martin" wrote: > > Browsers? You mean people aren't just telnetting to port 80? :-) > > Only from Alpha/UNIX. > > Oh, I *can* get Windoze 95 TELNET to accept an arbitrary port name. > Well, that will make my home networking more fulfilling... For Win9x, I recommend CRT (or SecureCRT) from www.vandyke.com, the name CRT is from Combined Rlogin and Telnet. It is a rock-solid telnet client (and SSH client for SecureCRT), and has the best VT100 emulation I've seen. -- Joe.Smith@inwap.com See http://www.inwap.com/ for details