From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Avant keyboard Date: 27 Nov 2000 22:55:45 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 34 Message-ID: <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 975365745 13863 128.59.39.2 (27 Nov 2000 22:55:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Nov 2000 22:55:45 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.germany.net!newsfeed.mesh.ad.jp!sjc-peer.news.verio.net!ord-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1364 We were talking about this here a few weeks ago. John Wilson bought one and wrote a mini-review, on the strength of which I bought one too. It's quite nice, and I'd recommend to anybody who likes IBM keyboards but wants the Ctrl key in the right place, but there are just a couple nits worth mentioning: . It doesn't totally follow the IBM layout. The most annoying difference -- and the same gripe I had with the "Happy Hacking" keyboard, is that they moved the backslash/verical-bar key. In this case it's to the right of the Right Shift key. There's no way to map it back to where it should be, because they made the Enter key L-shaped, thus making the former position unavailable. Not good for touch typists. . What I didn't realize, but do now, is that you can only remap *keys*, not key combinations. Thus, when you swap the Esc and tilde/grave key, you can't (e.g.) put tilde back on Shift-Esc. (We touch-typing Unix users like our tilde key to be within reach of the home keys...) I didn't even look at the Windows software for configuring it. Since I (unlike John) received the thin pamphlet in the box, I could read the two paragraphs about manual remapping, and after a couple fumblefingered attempts was able to put Ctrl left of A and swap Esc and tilde/grave, which was all that the original IBM keyboard needed to be perfect :-) Best of all, I can boot among many OS's on this PC and not lose the mapping. Now I wonder why there is a little door on top... Is that so the little people can go in and out? - Frank ###### From: wilson@dbit.com (John Wilson) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Avant keyboard Date: 28 Nov 2000 03:19:17 -0500 Organization: D Bit, Troy, NY Lines: 17 Message-ID: <8vvpq5$9of$1@dbit.dbit.com> References: <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: dbit.dbit.com X-Trace: 28 Nov 2000 03:20:09 -0500, dbit.dbit.com XPident: wilson X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.181.141.3 XPident: Unknown Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.mathworks.com!news.mv.net!newspeer.phoen-x.net!news.wizvax.net!dbit.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1349 In article <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote: >Now I wonder why there is a little door on top... Is that so the little >people can go in and out? (I.e. the logo is hinged.) I've been wondering the same thing. The only thing I can think of is that the door is to provide access to the XT/AT switch that isn't there these days. The position of the \ key annoys me too, but since I rarely manage to pick up two keyboards in a row which have it in the same place, I've given up hope of being able to find it w/o looking. Anyway nothing could be as bad as the original IBM PC/XT layout, where the \ key is where the left shift key belongs, and ` in the way of the ENTER key. John Wilson D Bit ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 From: htimsc@moc.rric.pcuu.orobenots (Chris Smith) Subject: Re: Avant keyboard References: <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> Organization: Home, Richardson TX Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2000 16:20:39 GMT Message-ID: Lines: 23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.germany.net!blackbush.xlink.net!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed.icl.net!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!news-out.nntp.airnews.net.MISMATCH!cabal10.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal14.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!egsner!stoneboro!htimsc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1358 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: | Now I wonder why there is a little door on top... The Northgate Omnikey keyboard was basically the same, and the little door was for dip switches. It came with 3 (not 2) alternate key caps, for CTRL, CAPSLOCK, and ALT. It was not programmable but the dip switches provided a few fixed alternate key layouts. (You couldn't move ESC, and you couldn't just move CTRL or swap it with caps lock, and you couldn't work around a broken arrow key. I.e. the Avant is much better.) On my avant-like maxiswitch I have put backquote[1] on one of the spare keys on the spacebar row. On the Avant keyboard they have been endowed with Windows logos but once upon a time they were blank. Could be used for Hyper and Super but I'm not that crazy. A touch-typable tilde could go in this row. The L-shaped enter key really is truly useless, I wonder why it's so popular... [1] Not, if you please, accent grave, unless ' is accent accute. I know this is a lost battle, but still, right is right. ###### From: Frank McConnell Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Avant keyboard Date: 28 Nov 2000 08:33:08 -0800 Organization: Reanimators Lines: 16 Message-ID: <900mo4$1ho2$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> References: <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: daemonweed.reanimators.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: daemonweed.reanimators.org 975429188 50946 192.168.1.2 (28 Nov 2000 16:33:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@reanimators.org NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Nov 2000 16:33:08 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!HSNX.atgi.net!news.kjsl.com!news.reanimators.org!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1363 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) wrote: > Now I wonder why there is a little door on top... Is that so the little > people can go in and out? The medium-old (non-programmable) Omnikeys have a reset button and an 8-position DIP switch under that door. One of the DIP switches is the Ctrl/CapsLock/Alt swizzle. Others do other things. See http://www.concentric.net/~psteffen/omnikey.html for details if you're really interested. Even older Omnikeys have all this stuff poking out the back, and no door. The web page mentioned above is actually for these keyboards, but I think the DIP switch settings are the same for these and the medium-old Omnikeys. -Frank McConnell ###### From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Avant keyboard Date: 28 Nov 2000 20:23:57 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 67 Message-ID: <90148t$7t2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 975443037 8098 128.59.39.2 (28 Nov 2000 20:23:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Nov 2000 20:23:57 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.mesh.ad.jp!sjc-peer.news.verio.net!ord-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1361 In article , Chris Smith wrote: : ... : On my avant-like maxiswitch I have put backquote[1] on one of the : spare keys on the spacebar row. On the Avant keyboard they have : been endowed with Windows logos but once upon a time they were : blank. Could be used for Hyper and Super but I'm not that crazy. : A touch-typable tilde could go in this row. : : The L-shaped enter key really is truly useless, I wonder why : it's so popular... : Political correctness. This all started, I think, with some massive "human factors" study commissioned by DEC in Europe, which ultimately resulted in some Din standards and the LK (canoe paddle) keyboard. I'm pretty sure this was at least a year or two before the IBM 101 keyboard. (I remember first seeing the keyboards at a nondisclosure presentation of... I think it was the Pro 350?... and being utterly appalled. Of course the Pro 350 offered a wide choice of appalling features. Didn't DEC finally empty its warehouses of them by making them into consoles for the VAX 8700?) Before that was a long period of "let the 100 flowers bloom", and some very nice keyboards appeared, such as on the Concept-100. Back in those days, people touch typed, and there was value in having all the keys in striking distance of the home keys. The DEC study was basically geared towards making computers (and therefore keyboards) more friendly to the general non-computer-using public, thereby increasing the market for computers and terminals. So as a result we had to have all these ergonomically huge Return/Enter and Shift keys, and whatnot (though, ironically, they never thought of a HELP key). Implicit in the process was the recognition that (a) the terminal-host model was dead (so we don't need Ctrl or Esc keys any more), and (b) touch-typing was a discredited legacy concept (because it is not a mass-market phenomenon). The ultimate insult to the Old Guard was putting Caps Lock where Ctrl was. What could be more useless? This seemed to send us directly back to the ASR 33 Teletype days when computers spoke only upper case. (Those of us who remember the VT50 and earlier still recall the liberating sensation of entering and viewing lowercase on the VT52 and early DECwriters.) To add fuel to the fire, various European government procurement bodies began to *require* the new layout, so by 1983 or so, the only keyboards available were essentially today's DEC and IBM layouts. At least DEC waffled by leaving Ctrl in the same row, rather than moving it way down to tendon-twisting territory. But anyway, what it all adds up to is: you're supposed to be using a mouse, not a keyboard. And that's why the market for good keyboards is a vanishingly small one. : [1] Not, if you please, accent grave, unless ' is accent accute. : I know this is a lost battle, but still, right is right. Names of characters are assigned in the standards in which the characters are defined. The characters in question are defined in US ASCII (ANSI X3.4-1986), ISO 646, ISO 8859, and ISO 10646. In all of these, the names of these two characters are APOSTROPHE and GRAVE ACCENT, respectively (and yes, in uppercase too :-) As you can see I don't really believe this is a PDP-10 newsgroup -- it's more like a clubhouse for people who used to run or use them :-) Actually, in those days (20-25 years ago, yikes!) the DEC-10s and -20s were a given, and terminals and keyboards were the hot topic. Remember the Info-Terms mailing list? - Frank ###### From: jmfbahciv@aol.com Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Avant keyboard Date: Wed, 29 Nov 00 11:05:16 GMT Organization: UltraNet Communications, Inc. Lines: 13 Message-ID: <902rm3$514$1@bob.news.rcn.net> References: <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> X-Trace: 4JHjEqzg6bmRvbWECzeTlcKFrIpGuwD1/SainjgpmLs= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Nov 2000 12:09:39 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress Version 1.0 Beta #4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!207-172-245-130 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1373 In article <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) wrote: >Now I wonder why there is a little door on top... Is that so the little >people can go in and out? It's nice to know that they're still designing gear to allow smoke signals. /BAH Subtract a hundred and four for e-mail. ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 From: htimsc@moc.rric.pcuu.orobenots (Chris Smith) Subject: Re: Avant keyboard References: <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <90148t$7t2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> Organization: Home, Richardson TX Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2000 06:04:05 GMT Message-ID: Lines: 74 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!cabal10.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!cabal14.airnews.net!news.airnews.net!egsner!stoneboro!htimsc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1378 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: | the names of these two characters are APOSTROPHE and GRAVE ACCENT Very sorry to hear it, as you are definitely one who knows. Thanks for the info though. I had thought both alternatives were given for both chars. FWIW, the PDP-10 System Reference Manual, in the 1970 white phone book, appendix B, Input-Output Codes, agrees that 0140 is grave. It calls 047 "accent acute or apostrophe." I remember some (printing) terminals using apostrophe and grave, and others that used acute and grave (and tilde also was an accent). I don't remember any video terminals using anything but apostrophe and reverse-apostrophe, though I never used a video terminal that could overstrike. | The ultimate insult to the Old Guard was putting Caps Lock where Ctrl was. | What could be more useless? This seemed to send us directly back to the | ASR 33 Teletype days when computers spoke only upper case. (Those of us | who remember the VT50 and earlier still recall the liberating sensation of | entering and viewing lowercase on the VT52 and early DECwriters.) Yes! It was great, including the fab modern appearance of MACRO code in lower case. The use of case-independent monitor commands and FORTRAN programs and so on doubtless stemmed from the way uppercase-only equipment silently mapped lower to upper case for display. The aforementioned white phone book has a photo of a KSR37 (on page 121). I think I've read that it is the reason Unix treats lowercase chars as first-class citizens, not synonyms for uppercase chars. It has the shifted digits with their "correct" values !"#$%&'() , but other stuff is much modified: Left side of KSR33: 1 2 3 ... ALTMODE Q W E ... CTRL A S D ... SHIFT Z X C ... Left side of KSR37: /> Q W E ... PREFIX SHIFTLOCK A S D ... CTRL SHIFT Z X C ... Right side of KSR33: 9 0 */: =/- O P LINEFEED RETURN L +/; RUBOUT >/. ?// SHIFT Right side of KSR37: 9 0 =/- _/_ }/] ~/^ |/\ O P `/@ RETURN BACKSPACE IDLE L +/; */: LINESPACE DELETE ./. ?// SHIFT CTRL The graphic for 0140 is backquote, but given the dangerous revisionism exhibited elsewhere, I'm not sure that's a recommendation. The biggest thing is probably newline in place of cr/lf. I had forgotten how nice it was to have + and * in handy spots. No ESC, no LF. No wonder adb is so crippled. | Remember the Info-Terms mailing list? I do not, but I may have read some digests after the fact. I do remember some keypad wars, including the GOLD key, an early victory for big-hand-movement computing. ###### From: pechter@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Avant keyboard Date: 29 Nov 2000 15:04:59 -0500 Organization: Unknown Lines: 38 Message-ID: <903nhb$3oa$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> References: <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <90148t$7t2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: bg-tc-ppp1031.monmouth.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.monmouth.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1388 In article <90148t$7t2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, Frank da Cruz wrote: >: >The DEC study was basically geared towards making computers (and therefore >keyboards) more friendly to the general non-computer-using public, thereby >increasing the market for computers and terminals. So as a result we had >to have all these ergonomically huge Return/Enter and Shift keys, and >whatnot (though, ironically, they never thought of a HELP key). Implicit >in the process was the recognition that (a) the terminal-host model was dead >(so we don't need Ctrl or Esc keys any more), and (b) touch-typing was a >discredited legacy concept (because it is not a mass-market phenomenon). My -- how soon we forget the HELP key on the LK201 keyboard. I seem to remember it on Rainbows and the Pro350's as well. >As you can see I don't really believe this is a PDP-10 newsgroup -- it's >more like a clubhouse for people who used to run or use them :-) Actually, >in those days (20-25 years ago, yikes!) the DEC-10s and -20s were a given, >and terminals and keyboards were the hot topic. Remember the Info-Terms >mailing list? Yup... and thanks again for C-Kermit. My kermit makefile hacks are still alive in your current distribution long after make ccop1 for Concurrent Computer's Xelos and my job there disappeared. > >- Frank Bill -- -- bpechter@monmouth.com | FreeBSD since 1.0.2, Linux since 0.99.10 | Unix Sys Admin since Sys V/BSD 4.2 | Windows System Administration: "Magical Misery Tour" ###### From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Avant keyboard Date: 29 Nov 2000 20:43:50 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 17 Message-ID: <903pq6$sar$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <90148t$7t2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <903nhb$3oa$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 975530630 29019 128.59.39.2 (29 Nov 2000 20:43:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Nov 2000 20:43:50 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!xfer10.netnews.com!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!panix!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1390 In article <903nhb$3oa$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org>, Bill Pechter wrote: : ... : My -- how soon we forget the HELP key on the LK201 keyboard. : I seem to remember it on Rainbows and the Pro350's as well. : Oops, by golly you're right. Oh well, another good idea gone by the wayside. : My kermit makefile hacks are still alive in your current distribution : long after make ccop1 for Concurrent Computer's Xelos and my job there : disappeared. : Yes, Kermit: the living museum. Never throw away old code, just put #ifdefs around it -- you'll never know when you might need it again :-) - Frank ###### From: rivie@server.newlogan.teraglobal (Roger Ivie) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Avant keyboard References: <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <90148t$7t2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <903nhb$3oa$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> Reply-To: rivie@teraglobal.com Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (FreeBSD) NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.186.13.23 Date: 29 Nov 2000 16:38:38 -0600 X-Trace: 29 Nov 2000 16:38:38 -0600, 208.186.13.23 Lines: 19 X-Comments: This message was posted through Newsfeeds.com X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Newsfeeds.com does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Comments3: IMPORTANT: Under NO circumstances will postings containing illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers, INCLUDING the body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 80,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!telocity-west!TELOCITY!local-out.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!corp.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!crp!anonymous!127.0.0.1!crp!rivie Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1386 In article <903nhb$3oa$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org>, Bill Pechter wrote: >My -- how soon we forget the HELP key on the LK201 keyboard. >I seem to remember it on Rainbows and the Pro350's as well. That's because the Rainbows and Pro350s used the LK201 keyboard... -- Roger Ivie TeraGlobal Communications Corporation 1770 North Research Park Way Suite 100 Logan, UT 84341 mailto:rivie@teraglobal.com phoneto:(435)787-0555 faxto:(435)787-0516 -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =----- ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Avant keyboard Date: 30 Nov 2000 22:10:38 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 31 Message-ID: <6uu28pw4hd.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <90148t$7t2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <903nhb$3oa$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 975618639 606 10.0.3.2 (30 Nov 2000 21:10:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Nov 2000 21:10:39 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1392 pechter@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org (Bill Pechter) writes: > In article <90148t$7t2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu>, > Frank da Cruz wrote: > >: > > My -- how soon we forget the HELP key on the LK201 keyboard. > I seem to remember it on Rainbows and the Pro350's as well. I just went and checked my collection of keyboards: It is both on the LK201 (VT220, mine is from an Pro350) and it is on the LK401 (VT420, mine is from a VAXstation 3100M38). It is positioned left of the double-width "Do" key just above the Find/Select/Indert/Remove/PgUp/PgDn block. P.S: anyone know what the big "Do" key was supposed to be used for? It was not on the VT100 keyboard. And of course not on this IBM AT/03 (MF-II layout, 102 key) board I am using here. Nor on the 2 MF-II clones I have got. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Avant keyboard References: <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <90148t$7t2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <903nhb$3oa$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> <6uu28pw4hd.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Mail-Copies-To: nobody X-Meow: Wouf X-Face: #!n`o'kqzEiF(\CL4IR$H.F-||!S*5wv~g8~prn}Z<+F/-^?oJ:#_V#QP?G}!!yayV0]i\' GTb6:]Tic*!vjH}wm>ILhZBn8U0XEjh'l~yrjB?4Iiph5N9:kwqd/}86UTr9i|LCu]Bd)~G1R9U(qJ KOyEQK8*? From: meowbot@meowing.net (Rolled-over Meowbot) Organization: They Date: 01 Dec 2000 00:09:18 -0500 Message-ID: <87pujck9s1.fsf@litterbox.meowing.net> Lines: 8 User-Agent: Gnus/5.0807 (Gnus v5.8.7) XEmacs/21.1 (Capitol Reef) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii NNTP-Posting-Host: 32.100.56.159 X-Trace: 1 Dec 2000 05:07:58 GMT, 32.100.56.159 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prserv.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.us.ibm.net!ibm.net!news3.prserv.net!32.100.56.159 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1418 Neil Franklin wrote: > P.S: anyone know what the big "Do" key was supposed to be used for? It's been a while, but I think TPU uses it to get a command prompt. I seem to remember using Alt-F6 (or something like that) on a PC termulator to get around the PF1-as-numlock problem. It did seem gratuitous on a real DEC terminal. ###### From: hmv@port.ac.uk (Mike Meredith at home) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Avant keyboard Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 08:22:10 +0000 Organization: Customer of Energis Squared Lines: 8 Sender: mike@port.ac.uk Message-ID: References: <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <90148t$7t2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <903nhb$3oa$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> <6uu28pw4hd.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-92.amandil.dialup.pol.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 975667100 20138 62.136.103.220 (1 Dec 2000 10:38:20 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Dec 2000 10:38:20 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!nmaster.kpnqwest.net!blackbush.xlink.net!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!news-hub.cableinet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!lucifer!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1424 In article <6uu28pw4hd.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin writes: > P.S: anyone know what the big "Do" key was supposed to be used for? don't know what it was supposed to be used for in dec-land, but it was used to "do" things in uniplex (bring up a menu of commands? it's been a long time) on a collection of xenix boxes i used to manage. ###### From: "Kevin Murrell" Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 References: <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <90148t$7t2$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <903nhb$3oa$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> <6uu28pw4hd.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <87pujck9s1.fsf@litterbox.meowing.net> Subject: Re: Avant keyboard Lines: 24 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2000 12:42:38 -0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.252.21.112 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news11-gui.server.ntli.net 975674388 62.252.21.112 (Fri, 01 Dec 2000 12:39:48 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 01 Dec 2000 12:39:48 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!grolier!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news11-gui.server.ntli.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1420 The DO key lives on. Our system started on PDP11's running DSM11 and using DEC terminals. We designed a form based screen handler, where they DO key was used to signal an update request. Many years later, now running NT stuff and web clients, we still get calls from users, who have unusually read the manual, wondering where the DO key is? Really must update that manual! Kevin "Rolled-over Meowbot" wrote in message news:87pujck9s1.fsf@litterbox.meowing.net... > Neil Franklin wrote: > > > P.S: anyone know what the big "Do" key was supposed to be used for? > > It's been a while, but I think TPU uses it to get a command prompt. I > seem to remember using Alt-F6 (or something like that) on a PC > termulator to get around the PF1-as-numlock problem. It did seem > gratuitous on a real DEC terminal. ###### From: peter@taronga.com (Peter da Silva) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Avant keyboard Date: 1 Dec 2000 13:18:13 GMT Organization: TSS Inc. Lines: 12 Message-ID: <9088el$eeg$1@citadel.in.taronga.com> References: <8vuoph$dh7$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> <903nhb$3oa$1@i4got.pechter.dyndns.org> <6uu28pw4hd.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <87pujck9s1.fsf@litterbox.meowing.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: citadel.in.taronga.com X-Trace: citadel.in.taronga.com 975676693 14800 10.0.0.43 (1 Dec 2000 13:18:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@taronga.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Dec 2000 13:18:13 GMT X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!HSNX.atgi.net!news.kjsl.com!news.usenet2.org!citadel.in.taronga.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1408 In article <87pujck9s1.fsf@litterbox.meowing.net>, Rolled-over Meowbot wrote: >It's been a while, but I think TPU uses it to get a command prompt. EDT certainly did. You'd hit DO and enter a command-mode command, like a search and replace. TPU wasn't quite an EDT clone, but close enough. -- Rev. Peter da Silva, ULC. WWFD? "Be conservative in what you generate, and liberal in what you accept" -- Matthew 10:16 (l.trans)