From: fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Keyboards (Was: Quasar - problems on my emulator) Date: 30 Oct 2000 15:34:04 GMT Organization: Columbia University Lines: 72 Message-ID: <8tk4dc$2n1$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> References: <8tfc67$5o7$1@dbit.dbit.com> <8thlhg$30mh$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <8tipam$6lc$1@dbit.dbit.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: watsun.cc.columbia.edu X-Trace: newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu 972920044 2785 128.59.39.2 (30 Oct 2000 15:34:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: postmaster@columbia.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Oct 2000 15:34:04 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!sjc-peer.news.verio.net!ord-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu!watsun.cc.columbia.edu!fdc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1098 In article <8tipam$6lc$1@dbit.dbit.com>, John Wilson wrote: : In article <8thlhg$30mh$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org>, : Frank McConnell wrote: : >Rumor is that those responsible are now making a cleaned-up less-buggy : >version for sale as the Avant Stellar, but it's a bit expensive for me : >to buy one to try it, so I haven't: instead I keep an eye open for : >classic Omnikeys and they do turn up for cheap once in a while. : >http://www.cvtinc.com/kybdfeatures.htm for more info, : : Too cool!! It's nice to see that someone cares about the piddling details : enough to put some effort into it. Well I hope it does turn out to be more : or less on par with the Omnikey, cause I just ordered one. Yeah it's really : pricey considering that no-name crap keyboards are $5/ea these days, but : if you use a keyboard all day every day then it's worth some money to have : a really good one. And I'm sick of crappy ones, the only keyboards that I : really like the feel of are the ones made by Focus, but they're absolutely : the least reliable, after a few months there's always a bad key or two. : : If anyone cares, I can report on the Stellar once it arrives (currently : back-ordered, supposedly until Tuesday). : Yes indeed. Everybody's taste in keyboards differs, but I think most readers of this newsgroup have definite ideas about where the Ctrl, Esc (Altmode), Backslash, Del and other roving keys should be. After all, some of us still use EMACS and even TECO, and touch-type, thus need these keys in reach without leaving the home position. The first thing many of us do when getting a new PC or PC OS is to figure out how to map Caps Lock to Ctrl and Grave to Esc (in DOS, Windows 3.x, Windows 9x, Windows NT, Linux, FreeBSD, SCO, Plan 9, Solaris...), but it would be so much nicer to have a normal, usable keyboard in the first place. As a writer of portable software, I have a PC with pluggable hard disks that allows me to boot any number of OS's (currently about 20), and figuring out the mapping for all of them is just too much trouble. So I bought a "Happy Hacking" keyboard, which at least has Ctrl and Esc in the right place, but unfortunately the entire upper-right group is hopelessly mal-arranged -- Delete, Backslash, Grave, Tilde. Also, the feel is not that great: mooshy, no feedback. (To me, the best feeling keyboard ever is the big heavy IBM 101, which they don't make any more). So yes, I'd be interested to hear about the Avant, especially about the "manual programming", since computer-driven configuration can only be done from Windows. If a consistent configuration can be kept when booting amongst Windows, Linux, SCO, etc, and it has the IBM 101 heft and feel, it could be just the thing. : Now if someone would make VT52 or VT100 style keyboards for PCs, *that* : would be something! : I went through VT05, VT50, VT52, VT100, VT220, and VT320 on my desk before finally switching to PCs. (Not to mention Hazeltine 1200, Fox 1100, Concept 100, etc). I remember the VT100 as if it were some kind of exercise machine you would find in a gym :-) PCs are actually quite nice if you can map the keyboard -- and they let you have 10 or 20 VTxxx's on your screen at once :-) Speaking of keyboards... In the neverending quest for the perfect keyboard, wouldn't it be nice if the keytops actually said what the key will do or send? Unfortunately, nobody types any more except us old-timers (*), so this will never happen but... Imagine a keyboard in which each keytop was some kind of low-power display -- LCD or whatever -- that could be set by the host software. Kind of like what Macintosh "keycaps" does, but on the keys themselves. (*) As personal computers gradually transmogrify into entertainment centers -- glorified telivisions -- everything is done with the mouse; at some point the keyboard could just disappear; maybe even the mouse too, leaving only a remote :-) - Frank ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.sys.pdp10 Subject: Re: Keyboards (Was: Quasar - problems on my emulator) Date: 30 Oct 2000 22:19:10 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 52 Message-ID: <6uvgua81td.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <8tfc67$5o7$1@dbit.dbit.com> <8thlhg$30mh$1@daemonweed.reanimators.org> <8tipam$6lc$1@dbit.dbit.com> <8tk4dc$2n1$1@newsmaster.cc.columbia.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 972940750 516 10.0.3.2 (30 Oct 2000 21:19:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Oct 2000 21:19:10 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.sys.pdp10:1102 fdc@watsun.cc.columbia.edu (Frank da Cruz) writes: > In article <8tipam$6lc$1@dbit.dbit.com>, John Wilson wrote: > : > : If anyone cares, I can report on the Stellar once it arrives (currently > : back-ordered, supposedly until Tuesday). Yes, do so. > So I bought a "Happy Hacking" keyboard, which at least has Ctrl and Esc > in the right place, but unfortunately the entire upper-right group is > hopelessly mal-arranged -- Delete, Backslash, Grave, Tilde. Also, the feel > is not that great: mooshy, no feedback. (To me, the best feeling keyboard > ever is the big heavy IBM 101, which they don't make any more). Same taste, thanks for the warning. I was thinking of getting an HH. Seems I will stay with my present IBM 102 with AT style plug. Seems also that I have a chance to get my old DTI back from my sister. So I have a good board spare. > Speaking of keyboards... In the neverending quest for the perfect keyboard, > wouldn't it be nice if the keytops actually said what the key will do or > send? Unfortunately, nobody types any more except us old-timers (*), so this > will never happen but... What about all then typists? Uh, wait, their employers buying policies have driven the PC into todays lowest-cost-crap state. > Imagine a keyboard in which each keytop was some > kind of low-power display -- LCD or whatever -- that could be set by the > host software. Kind of like what Macintosh "keycaps" does, but on the > keys themselves. I have actually seen a photo of such an keyboard in an computer magazine. Around 1990. It used 7x5 LCDs in each keycap. Price in the $300 range. Unfortunately I can not remember where/when I say it. Argh! > (*) As personal computers gradually transmogrify into entertainment centers > -- glorified telivisions -- everything is done with the mouse; at some > point the keyboard could just disappear; maybe even the mouse too, > leaving only a remote :-) Which is at least a keyboard - sort of. :-) :-( -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic