From: Jym Dyer Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools,alt.religion.emacs Subject: Re: Simple NT-based Java tool for Unix lovers? Date: 11 Dec 1997 19:27:55 -0800 Organization: The Group W Bench Lines: 13 Sender: jym@igc.apc.org Message-ID: References: <348D5DC2.7075@ujf-grenoble.fr> NNTP-Posting-Host: surf0004.sybase.com Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!csulb.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntprelay.mathworks.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.igc.apc.org!usenet > If you love Unix you also love vi ! =o= Not necessarily. Trust me on this. =o= The user's request was for something that could edit and run java code "using a nice font-highlighting editor." Emacs with JDE (and the Sun JDK) certainly qualifies, but I don't know of any version of vi that does. =o= However, anyone who loves vi could certainly run Emacs in "vi mode". <_Jym_> ###### From: Peter Keel Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools,alt.religion.emacs Subject: Re: Simple NT-based Java tool for Unix lovers? Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 10:46:12 +0100 Organization: Cyberlink Internet Services AG Lines: 26 Message-ID: <3498F0E4.5551DB36@cyberlink.NOSPAM.ch> References: <348D5DC2.7075@ujf-grenoble.fr> NNTP-Posting-Host: fw0.cyberlink.ch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i486) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!streamer1.cleveland.iagnet.net!iagnet.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!blackbush.xlink.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!dino.active.ch!news.cyberlink.ch!news Jym Dyer wrote: > > > If you love Unix you also love vi ! > > =o= Not necessarily. Trust me on this. vi is some sort of toilet-cleaner. Emacs... well. Ctrl-X hadn't worked. Alt-X did neither. Ctrl-C was caught, so this didn't work either. So I tried half a dozen other ways to quit that thing. kill -9 did. It was obvious that Emacs had no user-interface of any kind I could cope with. Later I heard you have to press Ctrl-X-Ctrl-C or something like that to quit. I think it is ridiculous to press more than two keys for a simple quit, So I rm'ed emacs. Of course, the whole issue may not be with xemacs, but then, emacs already managed to piss me off. I use mcedit (Midnight Commander) since. > =o= However, anyone who loves vi could certainly run Emacs in > "vi mode". I'd rather use ed. Peter -- "An NT box can be run by an idiot.... and usually is" ###### From: kvan@diku.dk (Kvan) Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools,alt.religion.emacs Subject: Re: Simple NT-based Java tool for Unix lovers? Date: 18 Dec 1997 10:33:04 +0100 Organization: Department of Computer Science, U of Copenhagen Lines: 25 Sender: kvan@ask.diku.dk Message-ID: <67aqkg$brd@ask.diku.dk> References: <348D5DC2.7075@ujf-grenoble.fr> <3498F0E4.5551DB36@cyberlink.NOSPAM.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: ask.diku.dk X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.1 #3 (NOV) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news.telenet.pt!news.rccn.net!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!Cabal.CESspool!bofh.vszbr.cz!news.maxwell.syr.edu!uninett.no!news.net.uni-c.dk!diku.dk!ask.diku.dk!not-for-mail Peter Keel writes: >vi is some sort of toilet-cleaner. Emacs... well. Ctrl-X >hadn't worked. Alt-X did neither. Ctrl-C was caught, so >this didn't work either. So I tried half a dozen other ways >to quit that thing. kill -9 did. It was obvious that Emacs had >no user-interface of any kind I could cope with. Later >I heard you have to press Ctrl-X-Ctrl-C or something like >that to quit. Well, if you're unable to grasp English text, Emacs isn't for you (it say C-x C-c _right there_ on the first page of text you're shown at startup!). If you can't be bothered to read a dozen lines of text before using a new tool, then you certainly deserve what you're getting with mcedit. Now please excuse me while I go back to using my ridiculously powerful editor, to use about half the time on any given task compared to using mcedit (or pico or, RMS forbid, vi). Kvan, glad that this heathen will also be miserable _after_ death. -- -------Casper Kvan Clausen------ | 'Ah, Warmark, everything that passes ------------------ | unattempted is impossible.' 'kvan' on pbmserv@eiss.erols.com | http://www.diku.dk/students/kvan | - Lord Mhoram, Son of Variol. ###### From: Matt Knopp Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools,alt.religion.emacs Subject: Re: Simple NT-based Java tool for Unix lovers? Date: 18 Dec 1997 13:10:03 -0600 Organization: Jump Point Communications, Inc. Lines: 10 Message-ID: References: <348D5DC2.7075@ujf-grenoble.fr> <3498F0E4.5551DB36@cyberlink.NOSPAM.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: orz.mesas.com X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.4.52/Emacs 19.34 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.238.120.130!jump.net!jumpnet.com!not-for-mail >>>>> "Peter" == Peter Keel writes: Peter> Jym Dyer wrote: >> > If you love Unix you also love vi ! >> I 'love' unix.. and do not love vi. I will avoid the religous debate (emacs/vi) its easy to look at the headers to see which i use. :) -Matt ###### From: Martin `Rydis' Rydstr|m Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools,alt.religion.emacs Subject: Re: Simple NT-based Java tool for Unix lovers? Date: 18 Dec 1997 16:58:31 +0100 Organization: The Bing! Society of Lesser Importance Lines: 37 Sender: d3rydma@tarki.dtek.chalmers.se Message-ID: References: <348D5DC2.7075@ujf-grenoble.fr> <3498F0E4.5551DB36@cyberlink.NOSPAM.ch> Reply-To: d3rydma@dtek.chalmers.se NNTP-Posting-Host: tarki.dtek.chalmers.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=SEN_850200_B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Url: http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~d3rydma/ Mail-Copies-To: d3rydma@dtek.chalmers.se X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.2 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!fci-se!fci!newsfeed.sunet.se!news99.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!129.16.9.9.MISMATCH!news.chalmers.se!dtek.chalmers.se!d3rydma >>>>> "pk" == Peter Keel writes: pk> vi is some sort of toilet-cleaner. Well... Yes. pk> I think it is ridiculous to press more than pk> two keys for a simple quit, So I rm'ed emacs. Oh, you mean you exit emacs all that often? That's not taking advantage of the resources at your disposal. Since I exit emacs whenever I log out, or have made som major changes to my setup, that I need to test on a fresh emacs, I don' exit it all that often. And I don't /want/ to exit by mistake. pk> I use mcedit (Midnight Commander) since. That's OK. It's your loss. >>>>> "jym" == Jym Dyer jym> =o= However, anyone who loves vi could certainly run Emacs in jym> "vi mode". pk> I'd rather use ed. Actually, me too. I'd rather use ed than vi /anytime/. At least I can get stuff done in ed. TTFN, 'mr -- Varmt |l }t frusna m{n, : Martin "Rydis" Rydstr|m, geek and drunken bastard och varmt |l }t tr|tta; : Finger me for geek code and PGP-key. : Please do ty varmt |l {r kroppens v{n : http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~d3rydma/ : NOT quote och h}gens stav och st|tta. --Frans G. Bengtsson, R|de Orm. :: this .sig ###### From: Peter Keel Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools,alt.religion.emacs Subject: Re: Simple NT-based Java tool for Unix lovers? Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:55:48 +0100 Organization: Cyberlink Internet Services AG Lines: 40 Message-ID: <349963A4.7C8ED857@cyberlink.NOSPAM.ch> References: <348D5DC2.7075@ujf-grenoble.fr> <3498F0E4.5551DB36@cyberlink.NOSPAM.ch> <67aqkg$brd@ask.diku.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: fw0.cyberlink.ch Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (X11; I; Linux 2.0.32 i486) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!194.22.194.4!masternews.telia.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!ubnnews.unisource.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!dino.active.ch!news.cyberlink.ch!news Kvan wrote: > > Peter Keel writes: > > >vi is some sort of toilet-cleaner. Emacs... well. Ctrl-X > >hadn't worked. Alt-X did neither. Ctrl-C was caught, so > >this didn't work either. So I tried half a dozen other ways > >to quit that thing. kill -9 did. It was obvious that Emacs had > >no user-interface of any kind I could cope with. Later > >I heard you have to press Ctrl-X-Ctrl-C or something like > >that to quit. > > Well, if you're unable to grasp English text, Emacs isn't for you (it say C-x > C-c _right there_ on the first page of text you're shown at startup!). > > If you can't be bothered to read a dozen lines of text before using a new > tool, If possible I even read the sourcecode. C of course, not LIFP. > then you certainly deserve what you're getting with mcedit. It's not powerful, the most sophisticated it does is bracket-highlighting, but it does its job without me reading manual pages for inserting files and such. And of course, it has pulldown-menus and you even can use the mouse. On the console. I could even use the mouse on my VT220 if it had one. > Now please > excuse me while I go back to using my ridiculously powerful editor, to use > about half the time on any given task compared to using mcedit (or pico or, > RMS forbid, vi). yeah, including making coffe -- and the water boils even faster.. Cheers Peter -- "An NT box can be run by an idiot.... and usually is" ###### From: Hrvoje Niksic Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools,alt.religion.emacs Subject: Re: Simple NT-based Java tool for Unix lovers? Date: 18 Dec 1997 18:58:52 +0100 Organization: SRCE Zagreb, Croatia Lines: 15 Sender: hniksic@jagor.srce.hr Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <348D5DC2.7075@ujf-grenoble.fr> <3498F0E4.5551DB36@cyberlink.NOSPAM.ch> <67aqkg$brd@ask.diku.dk> <349963A4.7C8ED857@cyberlink.NOSPAM.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: jagor.srce.hr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Attribution: Hrvoje X-Face: Mie8:rOV<\c/~z{s.X4A{!?vY7{drJ([U]0O=W/xDi&N7XG KV^$k0m3Oe/)'e%3=$PCR&3ITUXH,cK>]bci&Ff%x_>1`T(+M2Gg/fgndU%k*ft [(7._6e0n-V%|%'[c|q:;}td$#INd+;?!-V=c8Pqf}3J Mail-Copies-To: never X-Newsreader: Quassia Gnus v0.18/XEmacs 20.4(beta10) - "Barbari" Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!Cabal.CESspool!bofh.vszbr.cz!newscore.univie.ac.at!01-newsfeed.univie.ac.at!CARNet.hr!news Peter Keel writes: > It's not powerful, the most sophisticated it does is > bracket-highlighting, but it does its job without me reading manual > pages for inserting files and such. And of course, it has > pulldown-menus and you even can use the mouse. On the console. Emacs also has the menus. With `Insert File' being one of the items on the `File' menu. -- Hrvoje Niksic | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia --------------------------------+-------------------------------- * Vi is the God of editors. * Emacs is the editor of Gods. ###### From: Matt Knopp Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools,alt.religion.emacs Subject: Re: Simple NT-based Java tool for Unix lovers? Date: 19 Dec 1997 14:52:50 -0600 Organization: Jump Point Communications, Inc. Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <348D5DC2.7075@ujf-grenoble.fr> <3498F0E4.5551DB36@cyberlink.NOSPAM.ch> <67aqkg$brd@ask.diku.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: orz.mesas.com X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.4.52/Emacs 19.34 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!204.238.120.130!jump.net!jumpnet.com!not-for-mail >>>>> "Kvan" == Kvan writes: >> thing. kill -9 did. It was obvious that Emacs had no >> user-interface of any kind I could cope with. Later I heard you >> have to press Ctrl-X-Ctrl-C or something like that to quit. So umm. That is worse then Alt-F-S to save under windows, granted there is a C-s hotkey to make it easier. Still. Or gosh.. vi (ESC-:w | ESC-:wq) ? hmmm. Or gosh cat/sed/awk if you are really special. Kvan> Well, if you're unable to grasp English text, Emacs isn't Kvan> for you (it say C-x C-c _right there_ on the first page of Kvan> text you're shown at startup!). You assum he/she started emacs w/o giving argv.. Ie.. that message is not displayed if you do `emacs foo` -Matt Knopp ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin (reply remove nospam.) Newsgroups: alt.religion.emacs Subject: Re: Simple NT-based Java tool for Unix lovers? Date: 20 Dec 1997 02:46:33 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 42 Message-ID: <3ejoeqh2.fsf@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch> References: <348D5DC2.7075@ujf-grenoble.fr> <3498F0E4.5551DB36@cyberlink.NOSPAM.ch> <67aqkg$brd@ask.diku.dk> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Peter Keel writes: >Emacs... well. Ctrl-X >hadn't worked. Alt-X did neither. Ctrl-C was caught, so >this didn't work either. So I tried half a dozen other ways >to quit that thing. kill -9 did. kvan@diku.dk (Kvan) writes: >Well, if you're unable to grasp English text, Emacs isn't for you (it say C-x >C-c _right there_ on the first page of text you're shown at startup!). >If you can't be bothered to read a dozen lines of text before using a new >tool, then you certainly deserve what you're getting with mcedit. You know what? Unfortunately I have to give Peter right on this one. This is a very common new-to-emacs problem. Most people when presented with a screen full of stuff by an never-used-before program do not immediately memorize all of it. And people trying a new editor don't expect to need advice how to exit it. My first emacs experience (micro-emacs on 286/DOS3.3 in 1987 or 88) went exactly the same: c:\>emacs -- Touch a few keys -- What was that for text that disappeared there? -- Where am I? -- What Do I Do? -- HELP! -- **PANIC!!** --- Ctrl-Alt-Del That scared me off of emacs for years. It took until 1994 to see the light. For the further story look at the X-Newsreader: line of this post. kvan@diku.dk (Kvan) writes: >Kvan, glad that this heathen will also be miserable _after_ death. Actually Peter is a good hacker and not at all miserable (I've met him personally). He is just still suffering from initial emacs shock. After seeing RMAIL in May he at least remared that "one can actually use emacs". I am seeing him again on 25. December, perhaps I will show him GNUS. -- Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch, http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ for Geek Code, Papernet, Voicenet, PGP public key see http: Any computer, that is running optimally, is outdated; including my Cx486 ###### Newsgroups: comp.lang.java.softwaretools,alt.religion.emacs From: Spider plant breeding program Subject: Re: Simple NT-based Java tool for Unix lovers? Message-ID: Followup-To: alt.religion.emacs Sender: nickc@uxe.liv.ac.uk Nntp-Posting-Host: uxe.liv.ac.uk X-Use-A-Real-Newsreader: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Organization: M-6 M-4 M-x hanoi X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/XEmacs 20.3 - "Vatican City" References: <348D5DC2.7075@ujf-grenoble.fr> <3498F0E4.5551DB36@cyberlink.NOSPAM.ch> <67aqkg$brd@ask.diku.dk> <349963A4.7C8ED857@cyberlink.NOSPAM.ch> Date: Sat, 20 Dec 1997 14:32:59 GMT Lines: 21 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!uunetukout!server1.netnews.ja.net!yama.mcc.ac.uk!liv!news Peter Keel writes: > Kvan wrote: > > Now please > > excuse me while I go back to using my ridiculously powerful editor, to use > > about half the time on any given task compared to using mcedit (or pico or, > > RMS forbid, vi). > > yeah, including making coffe -- and the water boils even faster.. Actually, it probably does boil faster, because at the top of the ivory tower the emacs user will be at lower air pressure than than the lowly vi user at the base. Nick -- #!perl -wlpi[finger.liv.ac.uk] # If it doesn't work see doio.c line ~256 BEGIN{$_="use SocketYIN;sockeXPZSOCK_STREAM,~proto'tcp'and\$|=connecXpack'S na4x8',AZ79,\$;=~host qq$^Ior die\$!;print'/w nickc\r'YOUT;print\$^I";s/X/t STDIN,/g;s/Y/;select STD/g;s/Z/F_INET,/g;s/~(\w*)/get$1byname/g;eval||die}