From: oki105234@hotmail.com (Philip Nativio) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Question about OBE Date: 1 Jun 2002 10:57:12 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 8 Message-ID: <96f74581.0206010957.57d70f81@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.221.78.253 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1022954232 23944 127.0.0.1 (1 Jun 2002 17:57:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Jun 2002 17:57:12 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:88987 I'm a novice at out of body experiences, and I think I can safely say I'd had a few with little memory of the occurances. Anyways, my question is regarding the entering of this higher mental state in which you leave the body.. I have noticed that whenever I feel closer to having an OBE, I hear loud buzzing noises in my ears and feel paralyzed, but I'd lose it somehow and go back to normal. Is this common of OBE, and was I a little bit closer to having one when I experienced this? ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Question about OBE Date: Sat, 1 Jun 2002 14:43:20 -0400 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <96f74581.0206010957.57d70f81@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-659.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:88992 In article <96f74581.0206010957.57d70f81@posting.google.com>, oki105234 @hotmail.com says... > I'm a novice at out of body experiences, and I think I can safely say > I'd had a few with little memory of the occurances. Anyways, my > question is regarding the entering of this higher mental state in > which you leave the body. Or seem to ... > I have noticed that whenever I feel closer > to having an OBE, I hear loud buzzing noises in my ears and feel > paralyzed, but I'd lose it somehow and go back to normal. Is this > common of OBE, and was I a little bit closer to having one when I > experienced this? The paralysis and buzzing noises are both common precursors of the OBE. I'd say you are on the right track. :) -- It is much harder to judge yourself than to judge others. If you succeed in judging yourself, it's because you are truly a wise man. --Antoine de Saint-Euxpery My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### Reply-To: "Corey" From: "Corey" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <96f74581.0206010957.57d70f81@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: Question about OBE Lines: 94 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 02 Jun 2002 04:45:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.178.178.181 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1022993109 209.178.178.181 (Sat, 01 Jun 2002 21:45:09 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 01 Jun 2002 21:45:09 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!news.belwue.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!c68febe8!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:88945 "Philip Nativio" wrote in message news:96f74581.0206010957.57d70f81@posting.google.com... > I'm a novice at out of body experiences, and I think I can safely say > I'd had a few with little memory of the occurances. Anyways, my > question is regarding the entering of this higher mental state in > which you leave the body.. I have noticed that whenever I feel closer > to having an OBE, I hear loud buzzing noises in my ears and feel > paralyzed, but I'd lose it somehow and go back to normal. Is this > common of OBE, and was I a little bit closer to having one when I > experienced this? Corey Says- I just happen to be reading exactly what you probably want. Here is an article by Bob Peterson. I'd like to comment on some of the findings described in the chart. First, under D, I'd like to note that during Lucid Dreams, the dreamer is aware of him/herself as occupying the dream body, and is not aware of another (physical) body. A lucid dreamer may "realize" they have a body that's sleeping, but they have no awareness of that sleeping body. An OBEer also occupies his or her non-physical body, but often they are aware of their physical body in relation to where their consciousness is. Under H, often the OBEer will see their physical body, but LDers do not. Under G, lucid dreams have been classified into two categories: (1) ones that occur during REM sleep, and (2) ones that occur during non-REM (NREM) sleep. As far as I know, most of the research in LDs has been on the second kind. Although the data is lacking, studies on OBEs indicate they do not occur during REM sleep. If anyone knows of research which contradicts this, I'd like more information/references. Other differences: In a lucid dream, typically one does not dream about being in one's bedroom, as is common in the out-of-body state. Also, after a lucid dream, the subject accepts the "unreality" of the lucid dream after awakening. After an OBE, the subject usually asserts emphatically that the experience was "real." Many Lucid Dreams contain sexual content. In fact, author Patricia Garfield indicates that "fully two-thirds" of her LDs have sexual content. During LDs, sexuality is convincingly real. In other words, it feels the same as real sex. OBEs, however, rarely have sexual content. When OBEers report having "astral sex," the experience is not anything like physical sex. It's more like an ecstatic mind-trip, a transfer of energy, or a euphoria, but it doesn't feel like physical sex. Lucid dreams are not easily remembered, unless one is conditioned. LaBerge indicates that memory is a key factor of having Lucid Dreams. OBEs, however, are usually remembered vividly for years. Typical lucid dreams happen from REM sleep. People don't unexpectedly pass into a lucid dream from a waking state. But typical OBEs are initiated from a waking state. In fact, OBEs can unexpectedly occur from a waking state. For instance, several people (myself included) have reported OBEs during which they have unexpectedly "fallen out of their body" from total consciousness. Some of these (mine included) occur when the physical body is active, such as walking down the street. Also, an out-of-body experience is a typical feature of a Near Death Experience (NDE). One can hardly think that Lucid Dreams occur during an NDE, especially because the physical body doesn't spontaneously go into REM sleep during an NDE. LaBerge, in chapter 3 (page 61) of his (excellent) book "Lucid Dreaming" cites that "untested philosophical assumptions have until recently blocked the scientific study and acceptance of lucid dreaming." And yet his untested philosophical assumptions about the OBE have biased people's attitudes against regarding the OBE as a separate phenomena worthy of scientific study. As a result, many people have "written off" the OBE as a lucid dream of poor quality. Regardless of what OBEs and Lucid Dreams are, I believe they are two separate phenomena, and I'm not alone in this belief (as supported by Gabbard and Twemlow). I do believe that occasionally people confuse one experience for the other. And granted: It's very difficult to tell the difference in some cases. One thing is for sure: more study is needed. It is premature to jump to the conclusion that "OBEs are actually variant interpretations of lucid dreams" as proposed by LaBerge in chapter 9 of his book. Let the flaming begin. ###### Lines: 14 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 02 Jun 2002 08:05:48 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ch) Subject: Re: Question about OBE Message-ID: <20020602040548.09649.00001018@mb-ch.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:88965 In article , "Corey" writes: > >Many Lucid Dreams contain sexual content. In fact, author Patricia Garfield >indicates that "fully two-thirds" of her LDs have sexual content. > sounds like someone we should get to know / dream about :) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 6 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: rgross6162@aol.com (RGross6162) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 02 Jun 2002 12:42:31 GMT References: <96f74581.0206010957.57d70f81@posting.google.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: Question about OBE Message-ID: <20020602084231.04182.00001972@mb-fh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:88962 Yes, you were definltely closer. In my workshops on astral projection many people have these physical sensations which with practice will disappear. Eventually you can learn to leave at will and feel real comfortable about it. Jerry Gross www.searchandprove.com