From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: The value of meditation (long) Lines: 73 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <0b1H8.24$8W1.22843@bcandid.telisphere.com> Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 07:50:20 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.74 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1022140220 208.26.165.74 (Thu, 23 May 2002 00:50:20 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 00:50:20 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:88855 Hoping this will be of interest to some here. :-) ["There are] five soul qualities that students in a genuine spiritual training need to acquire: control of one's train of thought, control of one's will impulses, composure in the face of joy and sorrow, positivity in judging the world, and receptivity in one's attitude toward life.... If we do these exercises [described elsewhere] enough, we will encounter many shortcomings and errors in our soul life and will discover the necessary means of strengthening and safeguarding the activity of our intellect, our feelings, and our character.... "It is significant that students of the spirit are able to advance to ever higher levels of the faculties indicated [ie, for supersensible perception]. They must develop their control of thoughts and feelings to the point where their souls have the power to establish times of complete inner tranquillity. During these times, students must keep their hearts and minds free of everything outer daily life brings with it in the way of joy and sorrow, satisfactions and concerns, and even tasks and demands. The only things that are allowed to enter the soul in this state of meditation are what the soul itself chooses to admit.... "It is extremely valuable when people are able to detach themselves completely during these periods from thoughts about their personal concerns and rise to concerns that are shared by all. If they are able to fill their souls with communications from the higher spiritual worlds, and if this information is able to capture their interest to the same extent as their personal cares or concerns, this will prove especially fruitful for their souls. "If we make an effort to intercede in our soul life and regulate it in this way, we will also find it possible to observe ourselves and our own concerns with the same composure we apply to the concerns of others. Being able to look at our own experiences, joys, and sorrows as if they belonged to someone else is a good preparation for spiritual training.... For students of the spirit, the ideal increasingly becomes to relate to the events they encounter in life with inner certainty and tranquillity of soul and to judge them according to their own inherent significance and value rather than on the basis of a personal state of mind. "The prerequisites described here must be met, because we build up our supersensible experience on the basis of our standing in ordinary soul life before entering the spiritual world....Everything we experience supersensibly [ie, via OBEs, etc] is dependent on the soul's point of departure for entering this world. If we are not concerned from the very beginning with making a healthy faculty of judgement the basis of our spiritual training, we will develop supersensible faculties that perceive the spiritual world inexactly and incorrectly. Our spiritual organs of perception will not develop properly, so to speak. Just as we cannot see properly in the world of the senses if our eyes are defective or diseased, we also cannot perceive properly with spiritual organs that have not been developed on the basis of a healthy faculty of judgment.... "If we take the right approach to our meditation exercises, the satisfaction we gain will make it clear that we are doing the right thing. We do not have to wait for "success" to have this certainty. Appropriate practice in the field of spiritual training goes hand in hand with a satisfaction that is more than just satisfaction. It is also knowledge, the knowledge of being able to see that what we are doing is leading us in the right direction. We can have this knowledge at any time if we pay attention to the subtleties of what we are experiencing....Success invariably does come if we continue to practice, and it is not at all desirable to force results to appear more quickly. If we did, the result might be only a small part of what actually should have appeared. With regard to spiritual development, partial success is often the reason for a great delay in achieving complete success. Moving among the forms of spiritual life that constitute partial success dulls us to the influences of forces that can lead to higher levels of development. We only appear to have gained somethng by having 'seen into the spiritual world,' because seeing it in this way gives us deceptive images instead of the truth." -- by R Steiner. ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <0b1H8.24$8W1.22843@bcandid.telisphere.com> Subject: Re: The value of meditation (long) Lines: 97 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:24:53 EDT Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 09:27:27 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!newsfeeds-atl2!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:88884 "dorothy" wrote in message news:0b1H8.24$8W1.22843@bcandid.telisphere.com... > Hoping this will be of interest to some here. :-) > > ["There are] five soul qualities that students in a genuine spiritual > training need to acquire: control of one's train of thought, control of > one's will impulses, composure in the face of joy and sorrow, positivity in > judging the world, and receptivity in one's attitude toward life.... If we > do these exercises [described elsewhere] enough, we will encounter many > shortcomings and errors in our soul life and will discover the necessary > means of strengthening and safeguarding the activity of our intellect, our > feelings, and our character.... > > "It is significant that students of the spirit are able to advance to ever > higher levels of the faculties indicated [ie, for supersensible perception]. > They must develop their control of thoughts and feelings to the point where > their souls have the power to establish times of complete inner > tranquillity. During these times, students must keep their hearts and minds > free of everything outer daily life brings with it in the way of joy and > sorrow, satisfactions and concerns, and even tasks and demands. The only > things that are allowed to enter the soul in this state of meditation are > what the soul itself chooses to admit.... > > "It is extremely valuable when people are able to detach themselves > completely during these periods from thoughts about their personal concerns > and rise to concerns that are shared by all. If they are able to fill their > souls with communications from the higher spiritual worlds, and if this > information is able to capture their interest to the same extent as their > personal cares or concerns, this will prove especially fruitful for their > souls. > > "If we make an effort to intercede in our soul life and regulate it in this > way, we will also find it possible to observe ourselves and our own concerns > with the same composure we apply to the concerns of others. Being able to > look at our own experiences, joys, and sorrows as if they belonged to > someone else is a good preparation for spiritual training.... For students > of the spirit, the ideal increasingly becomes to relate to the events they > encounter in life with inner certainty and tranquillity of soul and to judge > them according to their own inherent significance and value rather than on > the basis of a personal state of mind. > > "The prerequisites described here must be met, because we build up our > supersensible experience on the basis of our standing in ordinary soul life > before entering the spiritual world....Everything we experience > supersensibly [ie, via OBEs, etc] is dependent on the soul's point of > departure for entering this world. If we are not concerned from the very > beginning with making a healthy faculty of judgement the basis of our > spiritual training, we will develop supersensible faculties that perceive > the spiritual world inexactly and incorrectly. Our spiritual organs of > perception will not develop properly, so to speak. Just as we cannot see > properly in the world of the senses if our eyes are defective or diseased, > we also cannot perceive properly with spiritual organs that have not been > developed on the basis of a healthy faculty of judgment.... > > "If we take the right approach to our meditation exercises, the satisfaction > we gain will make it clear that we are doing the right thing. We do not have > to wait for "success" to have this certainty. Appropriate practice in the > field of spiritual training goes hand in hand with a satisfaction that is > more than just satisfaction. It is also knowledge, the knowledge of being > able to see that what we are doing is leading us in the right direction. We > can have this knowledge at any time if we pay attention to the subtleties of > what we are experiencing.... That reminds me of that LD I had where the person told me to pay attention to the subtle things in the backround. >Success invariably does come if we continue to > practice, and it is not at all desirable to force results to appear more > quickly. If we did, the result might be only a small part of what actually > should have appeared. With regard to spiritual development, partial success > is often the reason for a great delay in achieving complete success. Moving > among the forms of spiritual life that constitute partial success dulls us > to the influences of forces that can lead to higher levels of development. > We only appear to have gained somethng by having 'seen into the spiritual > world,' because seeing it in this way gives us deceptive images instead of > the truth." That was interesting food for thought there, Dorothy. Thanks. ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <0b1H8.24$8W1.22843@bcandid.telisphere.com> Subject: Re: The value of meditation (long) Lines: 55 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 00:25:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.28 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1022199915 208.26.165.28 (Thu, 23 May 2002 17:25:15 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 17:25:15 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:88859 "lorz" wrote in message news:F46H8.35084$mG.16136098@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com... > > "dorothy" wrote in message > news:0b1H8.24$8W1.22843@bcandid.telisphere.com... > > Hoping this will be of interest to some here. :-) [...] > > "If we take the right approach to our meditation exercises, the > satisfaction > > we gain will make it clear that we are doing the right thing. We do not > have > > to wait for "success" to have this certainty. Appropriate practice in the > > field of spiritual training goes hand in hand with a satisfaction that is > > more than just satisfaction. It is also knowledge, the knowledge of being > > able to see that what we are doing is leading us in the right direction. > We > > can have this knowledge at any time if we pay attention to the subtleties > of > > what we are experiencing.... > > That reminds me of that LD I had where the person told me to pay attention > to the subtle things in the backround. Sounds like reasonable advice, whether you consider it from your 'higher self', or some 'spiritual being'. Did you start paying more attention to the background then? > >Success invariably does come if we continue to > > practice, and it is not at all desirable to force results to appear more > > quickly. If we did, the result might be only a small part of what actually > > should have appeared. With regard to spiritual development, partial > success > > is often the reason for a great delay in achieving complete success. > Moving > > among the forms of spiritual life that constitute partial success dulls us > > to the influences of forces that can lead to higher levels of development. > > We only appear to have gained somethng by having 'seen into the spiritual > > world,' because seeing it in this way gives us deceptive images instead of > > the truth." > > That was interesting food for thought there, Dorothy. Thanks. Welcome! :-) ###### Message-ID: <3CED9368.1CA0EECE@cogeco.ca> From: Tien Yen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: The value of meditation (long) References: <0b1H8.24$8W1.22843@bcandid.telisphere.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 11 Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:12:08 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.150.231.178 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cogeco.ca X-Trace: read2.cgocable.net 1022202935 24.150.231.178 (Thu, 23 May 2002 21:15:35 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 21:15:35 EDT Organization: Cogeco Cable Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.cgocable.net!read2.cgocable.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:88820 Hi Dorothy dorothy wrote: > > Hoping this will be of interest to some here. :-) > Yes, it is. Thanks Dorothy. Where's it from? Tien Yen ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <0b1H8.24$8W1.22843@bcandid.telisphere.com> <3CED9368.1CA0EECE@cogeco.ca> Subject: Re: The value of meditation (long) Lines: 20 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 May 2002 01:48:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.32 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1022204909 208.26.165.32 (Thu, 23 May 2002 18:48:29 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 May 2002 18:48:29 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:88860 "Tien Yen" wrote in message news:3CED9368.1CA0EECE@cogeco.ca... > Hi Dorothy > > dorothy wrote: > > > > Hoping this will be of interest to some here. :-) > > > > > Yes, it is. Thanks Dorothy. Where's it from? > > Tien Yen An Outline of Esoteric Science (aka "Occult Science"). A lot of his "spiritual research" in this book (and others) sounds rather outlandish, but I have trouble dismissing it when so much of what he says makes sense. (Trying to be "receptive", y'know!) :-)