Lines: 26 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 07 Mar 2002 18:11:21 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ml) Subject: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:81698 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) writes: >That is to say we have a pretty good record of debunking such evidence >as been presented. No... it really says you just don't known when to keep your mouths shut, and further goes on to say that you *can't* keep your mouths shut, even when you should. > >Consequently, any purported evidence that Julia and company will present >must be presented only to people whom she believes to be gullible enough >to fall for it or diplomatic enough not to question too closely. no, it means she and janice and trish et al are sick and tired of your sceptic crap bullshit and really wish to have a *cleaner* environment in which to express ideas freely without people throwing "shite" at them. really, this is NOT alt.oob.sceptics. And you really should examine the fact that the sceptics are here BECAUSE they have NOTHING to unite them in the OWN newsgroup. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 14:44:02 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-970.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82116 In article <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > really, this is NOT alt.oob.sceptics. It's not alt.oob.believers or alt.oob.must-be-literal either, though. I'm all for having a private club if that will help ... -- If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great disappointments.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 18 Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:01:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015534882 80.1.123.25 (Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:01:22 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:01:22 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:81933 In message-id , Janice wrote: >In article <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com>, >silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > >> really, this is NOT alt.oob.sceptics. > >It's not alt.oob.believers or alt.oob.must-be-literal either, though. > >I'm all for having a private club if that will help ... Me too. I was a founder member of alt.paranormal.moderated and consistently offered to help when people wanted a moderated astrology forum (there are now two, as it happens). [...] -- Sherilyn ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Thu, 7 Mar 2002 21:53:48 -0000 Lines: 44 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-590.cheetah.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news7.svr.pol.co.uk 1015537729 31098 217.134.98.78 (7 Mar 2002 21:48:49 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Mar 2002 21:48:49 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!jfk3-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82090 In article <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > In article , > sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) writes: > > >That is to say we have a pretty good record of debunking such evidence > >as been presented. > > No... it really says you just don't known when to keep your mouths shut, and > further goes on to say that you *can't* keep your mouths shut, even when you > should. > > > >Consequently, any purported evidence that Julia and company will present > >must be presented only to people whom she believes to be gullible enough > >to fall for it or diplomatic enough not to question too closely. > > no, it means she and janice and trish et al are sick and tired of your sceptic > crap bullshit and really wish to have a *cleaner* environment in which to > express ideas freely without people throwing "shite" at them. I don't see how expressing scepticism about someone's ideas prevents them from talking about them. They don't have to read what the sceptics have written. Most newsreaders can be set up to filter out unwanted posts. What is more likely is that some people are very sensitive to having flaws in their thinking exposed. The problem for believers is that, from what has been discussed elsewhere, when "safe havens" have been set up, they've withered away from lack of use. > really, this is NOT alt.oob.sceptics. And you really should examine the fact > that the sceptics are here BECAUSE they have NOTHING to unite them in the OWN > newsgroup. Following from the above, it seems that, despite all the protestations, people enjoy a good argument. Sci.skeptic, for example, is quite an active group, as is talk.origins. Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 29 Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:58:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015538321 80.1.123.25 (Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:58:41 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 21:58:41 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!news2.euro.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:81959 In message-id , Ian H Spedding wrote: [...] > >I don't see how expressing scepticism about someone's ideas prevents >them from talking about them. They don't have to read what the >sceptics have written. Most newsreaders can be set up to filter out >unwanted posts. What is more likely is that some people are very >sensitive to having flaws in their thinking exposed. > >The problem for believers is that, from what has been discussed >elsewhere, when "safe havens" have been set up, they've withered away >from lack of use. This isn't universally the case. In fact there are currently not one but two fairly busy moderated astrology groups, which suggests that there is a lot of interest in discussing astrology on the net. [...] > >Following from the above, it seems that, despite all the >protestations, people enjoy a good argument. Sci.skeptic, for >example, is quite an active group, as is talk.origins. > sci.skeptic was far more active back in '97. Its history since 1999 has not been a happy one and it lacks a good permanent quorum. talk.origins is one of my favorite groups on the net, and perhaps one of the better organised ones. http://www.talkorigins.org/ -- Sherilyn ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 00:26:28 -0000 Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-2429.cheetah.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 1015546889 9703 217.134.105.125 (8 Mar 2002 00:21:29 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Mar 2002 00:21:29 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsgate.cistron.nl!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82124 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org says... > In message-id , > Ian H Spedding wrote: [...] > >Following from the above, it seems that, despite all the > >protestations, people enjoy a good argument. Sci.skeptic, for > >example, is quite an active group, as is talk.origins. > > > sci.skeptic was far more active back in '97. Its history since 1999 has > not been a happy one and it lacks a good permanent quorum. talk.origins > is one of my favorite groups on the net, and perhaps one of the better > organised ones. http://www.talkorigins.org/ I find talk.origins is one of the most informative groups for the layperson who is interested in science, especially biology. I've learnt a great deal from simply following threads in which contributing scientists try to explain some aspect of biology, geology or the chemistry and physics of the atmosphere to a creationist. The website is certainly a goldmine of pertinent and accessible information. Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 19 Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 00:38:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015547885 80.1.123.25 (Fri, 08 Mar 2002 00:38:05 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 00:38:05 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!lon1-news.nildram.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:81947 In message-id , Ian H Spedding wrote: [...] > >I find talk.origins is one of the most informative groups for the >layperson who is interested in science, especially biology. I've >learnt a great deal from simply following threads in which >contributing scientists try to explain some aspect of biology, geology >or the chemistry and physics of the atmosphere to a creationist. The >website is certainly a goldmine of pertinent and accessible >information. There are quite a few newsgroups in which scientists still generally contribute and argue with one another. sci.chem is another that seems to be going, though it's not my bag. I once crossposted a discussion of one of these mysterious Roswell artifacts to that group, and got some interesting responses from a Los Alamos chemist and her former mentor. -- Sherilyn ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <3c88b2f1.2940248@news.ntlworld.com> References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 18 Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:54:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.98.75 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015592200 62.255.98.75 (Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:56:40 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 12:56:40 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82038 On 07 Mar 2002 18:11:21 GMT, silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) wrote: >>Consequently, any purported evidence that Julia and company will present >>must be presented only to people whom she believes to be gullible enough >>to fall for it or diplomatic enough not to question too closely. >no, it means she and janice and trish et al are sick and tired of your sceptic >crap bullshit and really wish to have a *cleaner* environment in which to >express ideas freely without people throwing "shite" at them. Well, I wouldn't have put it quite that way myself, but I am just as weary of Sherilyn's gratuitious insults and attacks on me as I ever was before. Somebody please email me when he has gone and perhaps we can get back to talking about out-of-body experiences here. Take care out there, all of you, Love from Julia ###### NNTP-Posting-Host: user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2002030816143675767@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 16:14:36 GMT Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body From: J L Williams X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10003900 Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <3c88b2f1.2940248@news.ntlworld.com> Lines: 40 X-Trace: 1015603799 master.news.zetnet.net 29606 194.247.47.23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!master.news.zetnet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:81930 The message <3c88b2f1.2940248@news.ntlworld.com> from julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) contains these words: > On 07 Mar 2002 18:11:21 GMT, silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) > wrote: > >>Consequently, any purported evidence that Julia and company will present > >>must be presented only to people whom she believes to be gullible enough > >>to fall for it or diplomatic enough not to question too closely. > >no, it means she and janice and trish et al are sick and tired of your sceptic > >crap bullshit and really wish to have a *cleaner* environment in which to > >express ideas freely without people throwing "shite" at them. > Well, I wouldn't have put it quite that way myself, but I am just as > weary of Sherilyn's gratuitious insults and attacks on me as I ever > was before. Somebody please email me when he has gone and perhaps we > can get back to talking about out-of-body experiences here. Just click the sh** switch Julia and all is gone, 'Pooooooffffffffffff' ! After that change your habits to check the author as new id's abound. Don't ever read anything they say. If by accident you do (well most used to be one liners) NEVER EVER REPLY. New author? Plonk! If your 'plonker' :) wont do that individually just press NEXT. Same effect :) It really really REALLY works. Cheers Jim PS And I respect you :) > Take care out there, all of you, > Love from Julia ###### Lines: 13 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 08 Mar 2002 17:02:29 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-cm) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020308120229.10391.00000085@mb-cm.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:81985 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) writes: >Me too. I was a founder member of alt.paranormal.moderated and >consistently offered to help when people wanted a moderated astrology >forum (there are now two, as it happens). > who decides who gets to be a moderator in those groups? and WHERE are the alt. posts centralized? I mean, just WHO sponsors all this bandwidth, anyways?? To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 08 Mar 2002 23:03:48 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 131 Message-ID: <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1015625031 1484 10.0.3.2 (8 Mar 2002 22:03:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Mar 2002 22:03:51 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82187 I suppose it is time for annother de-lurk to help with a bit of psychology. Ian H Spedding writes: > In article <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com>, > silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > > > > no, it means she and janice and trish et al are sick and tired of your sceptic > > crap bullshit and really wish to have a *cleaner* environment in which to > > express ideas freely without people throwing "shite" at them. > > I don't see how expressing scepticism about someone's ideas prevents > them from talking about them. The problem is not "expressing scepticism". It is an pattern of repeated deliberate attacks, grinding down their targets nerves. > They don't have to read what the > sceptics have written. Reminds me of the useless "you don't need to listen" advice to people who can't sleep, because some street gang is having parties until early morning, just outside their house. Basically it is impossible to sort "decent" and "attack" posts without having to have first read them. And then it is already too late. Nerves have been grated once more. > Most newsreaders can be set up to filter out > unwanted posts. And past experience shows, that the people in question (Julia, Silk, etc) do not have enough computer skills to do that. So why keep on suggesting it? As much as it surprises computer wizzards like you and me, there exist many people who are just about at the edge of their computer knowledge in just managing to get onto the net and find newsgroups. > What is more likely is that some people are very > sensitive to having flaws in their thinking exposed. Nope. They are sensitive to being attacked. It makes no difference whether it is: a) PZ/Sherilyn the most intelligent attacking ignorant woowoos, or b) PZ/Sherilyn the total ignoramuse attacking knowledgable people. The psychological mechanism in the recipient is the same: repeated attacks, by people the reciever regards as wrong, grating on the recievers nerves. And the to be expected resulting anger that results from such hurting behaviour. Given that both PZ and Sherily have on occasions demonstrated quite a bit of knowledge on other subjects, and at least some ability at thinking, it is really surprising that they are totally incompetent when it comes to understanding even basic psychology. If they are really out to try and educate/persuade the woowoos, then they have chosen an maximum-faillure strategy. Shooting themselves in both feet. An typical "convert the heatens with the sword" missionary strategy. It failled in religon, it faills on Usenet. They remind me of the people one years ago told to "get themselves a life". They would do well, to go and read Janices remarks about ethnography in the "Religions" thread. If you want to persuade someone, you need to frame your arguments in their reference system. To do so you need to first understand that system. For that you need to get their trust. Attacking them faills you. Of course, perhaps PZ and Sherily are not out to educate/persuade. Perhaps they just are the most long-winded trolls in existance. Out to sadistically enjoy daily kicking others in the butt. > The problem for believers is that, from what has been discussed > elsewhere, when "safe havens" have been set up, they've withered away > from lack of use. a) Where? Note, that non-Usenet discussion systems (Web, IRC, ICQ) are _vastly_ inferior to use. Even mailing lists (the least inferior alternative) are inferiour, because you have to subscribe on some remote machine (not local menu) and then get everything mixed into your mailbox (remember the bit about lack of computer ability: mail filters/sorters are out). b) Any new place simply does not have the volume, so it does not attract people, so no volume is genrated, ... chicken-egg > > really, this is NOT alt.oob.sceptics. And you really should examine the fact > > that the sceptics are here BECAUSE they have NOTHING to unite them in the OWN > > newsgroup. > > Following from the above, it seems that, despite all the > protestations, people enjoy a good argument. Sci.skeptic, for > example, is quite an active group, as is talk.origins. _Some_ people want "a good argument". Sci.sceptic is the place for those. "If you want X you know where to find it..." But his here is alt.oob, which, before PZ and Sherily came, was the group where people peacefully reported experiences and occasionly discussed - from all viewponts. And most important: With respect for those that had different views. The same way as Janice and you do it. There were both woowoo discussions and highly critical discussions. But there was no dissing of woowoos as soon as they started one of their discussions. Of course reading others saying stuff one self regards as bunk and leaving them to go on doing so, instead of "correcting" them, takes stamina. It also takes an understanding that the world is not in an dire need of saving. And that one has not got an moral duty to do so. That is something missionaries seem to miss. The rest of the world hates them for this. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 140 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:04:53 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 17:14:36 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.nntpserver.com!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!newsfeeds-atl2!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82230 "Neil Franklin" wrote in message news:6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch... > I suppose it is time for annother de-lurk to help with a bit of psychology. > > Ian H Spedding writes: > > > In article <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com>, > > silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > > > > > > no, it means she and janice and trish et al are sick and tired of your sceptic > > > crap bullshit and really wish to have a *cleaner* environment in which to > > > express ideas freely without people throwing "shite" at them. > > > > I don't see how expressing scepticism about someone's ideas prevents > > them from talking about them. > > The problem is not "expressing scepticism". It is an pattern of > repeated deliberate attacks, grinding down their targets nerves. > > > > They don't have to read what the > > sceptics have written. > > Reminds me of the useless "you don't need to listen" advice to people > who can't sleep, because some street gang is having parties until > early morning, just outside their house. > > Basically it is impossible to sort "decent" and "attack" posts without > having to have first read them. And then it is already too late. Nerves > have been grated once more. > > > > Most newsreaders can be set up to filter out > > unwanted posts. > > And past experience shows, that the people in question (Julia, Silk, > etc) do not have enough computer skills to do that. So why keep on > suggesting it? > > As much as it surprises computer wizzards like you and me, there exist > many people who are just about at the edge of their computer knowledge > in just managing to get onto the net and find newsgroups. > > > > What is more likely is that some people are very > > sensitive to having flaws in their thinking exposed. > > Nope. They are sensitive to being attacked. > > > It makes no difference whether it is: > > a) PZ/Sherilyn the most intelligent attacking ignorant woowoos, or > b) PZ/Sherilyn the total ignoramuse attacking knowledgable people. > > The psychological mechanism in the recipient is the same: repeated > attacks, by people the reciever regards as wrong, grating on the > recievers nerves. And the to be expected resulting anger that results > from such hurting behaviour. > > > Given that both PZ and Sherily have on occasions demonstrated quite a > bit of knowledge on other subjects, and at least some ability at > thinking, it is really surprising that they are totally incompetent > when it comes to understanding even basic psychology. > > If they are really out to try and educate/persuade the woowoos, then > they have chosen an maximum-faillure strategy. Shooting themselves in > both feet. An typical "convert the heatens with the sword" missionary > strategy. It failled in religon, it faills on Usenet. They remind me > of the people one years ago told to "get themselves a life". > > They would do well, to go and read Janices remarks about ethnography > in the "Religions" thread. If you want to persuade someone, you need > to frame your arguments in their reference system. To do so you need > to first understand that system. For that you need to get their > trust. Attacking them faills you. > > > Of course, perhaps PZ and Sherily are not out to educate/persuade. > Perhaps they just are the most long-winded trolls in existance. Out to > sadistically enjoy daily kicking others in the butt. > > > > The problem for believers is that, from what has been discussed > > elsewhere, when "safe havens" have been set up, they've withered away > > from lack of use. > > a) Where? Note, that non-Usenet discussion systems (Web, IRC, ICQ) are > _vastly_ inferior to use. Even mailing lists (the least inferior > alternative) are inferiour, because you have to subscribe on some > remote machine (not local menu) and then get everything mixed into > your mailbox (remember the bit about lack of computer ability: mail > filters/sorters are out). > > b) Any new place simply does not have the volume, so it does not > attract people, so no volume is genrated, ... chicken-egg > > > > > really, this is NOT alt.oob.sceptics. And you really should examine the fact > > > that the sceptics are here BECAUSE they have NOTHING to unite them in the OWN > > > newsgroup. > > > > Following from the above, it seems that, despite all the > > protestations, people enjoy a good argument. Sci.skeptic, for > > example, is quite an active group, as is talk.origins. > > _Some_ people want "a good argument". Sci.sceptic is the place for those. > "If you want X you know where to find it..." > > But his here is alt.oob, which, before PZ and Sherily came, was the group > where people peacefully reported experiences and occasionly discussed - > from all viewponts. And most important: With respect for those that had > different views. The same way as Janice and you do it. > > There were both woowoo discussions and highly critical discussions. > But there was no dissing of woowoos as soon as they started one of > their discussions. > > > Of course reading others saying stuff one self regards as bunk and > leaving them to go on doing so, instead of "correcting" them, takes > stamina. It also takes an understanding that the world is not in an > dire need of saving. And that one has not got an moral duty to do so. > > That is something missionaries seem to miss. The rest of the world > hates them for this. > Hear, Hear, Well said! This man deserves a title! ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 16:46:20 -0600 Organization: Happy Noodle Boy! Lines: 114 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Reply-To: myers@mac.invalid X-Trace: laurel.tc.umn.edu 1015627579 8344 146.57.32.36 (8 Mar 2002 22:46:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@laurel.tc.umn.edu User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: "w/5:'{b21!-UbG8:}Tk?P%!\!n(cgznyt]sJL5N2_2bsRhGTRJ%UX!Wx%GgGA.Ri]*PQJB>y%sHxmrIRlVPU/3\@JI8H}KHLQbbzA)1j,*4mxqqt\}[L"XpE1\C7xg2mJH]NelCKASP;xvO'}"W(8y+kf,EyaeHk"h.DUlJ-L%p+jk|E1i0V>_$(5nnx,'GnM^%Sd0V Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hardy.tc.umn.edu!laurel.tc.umn.edu!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82313 In article <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin wrote: > I suppose it is time for annother de-lurk to help with a bit of psychology. > > Ian H Spedding writes: > > > In article <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com>, > > silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > > > > > > no, it means she and janice and trish et al are sick and tired of your > > > sceptic > > > crap bullshit and really wish to have a *cleaner* environment in which to > > > express ideas freely without people throwing "shite" at them. > > > > I don't see how expressing scepticism about someone's ideas prevents > > them from talking about them. > > The problem is not "expressing scepticism". It is an pattern of > repeated deliberate attacks, grinding down their targets nerves. > > > > They don't have to read what the > > sceptics have written. > > Reminds me of the useless "you don't need to listen" advice to people > who can't sleep, because some street gang is having parties until > early morning, just outside their house. > > Basically it is impossible to sort "decent" and "attack" posts without > having to have first read them. And then it is already too late. Nerves > have been grated once more. Oooh. Don't you just hate that? Seeing opinions expressed that you disagree with...how DARE some people inflict that on you! The funny thing is that the skeptics are in exactly the same position: day after day, we see woo-woos posting the most outrageous bilge, stuff that contradicts our worldview and is just as obnoxious to us as common sense, materialism, and the scientific method are to you. Yet you don't see us squalling that people must be shut down, that you are 'grinding on our nerves', or that only One Way of Thinking is allowed. I wonder why? Could it be because we're naturally more tolerant and open-minded? Nah. Impossible. Could it be because our opinions are supported by reason and evidence, giving us the self-confidence you lack? I'm sure that couldn't possibly be it, could it? > > > > Most newsreaders can be set up to filter out > > unwanted posts. > > And past experience shows, that the people in question (Julia, Silk, > etc) do not have enough computer skills to do that. So why keep on > suggesting it? Because we altruistically would like to spare those poor people those horrible grated nerves (ouch, that must hurt)? The only suggestion that those Luddites seem to want to entertain is that an entire group of people get evicted from the newsgroup; I think, if their nerves are as frazzled as you suggest, they ought to be willing to at least consider a simpler and much more practical alternative. [snip] > But his here is alt.oob, which, before PZ and Sherily came, was the group > where people peacefully reported experiences and occasionly discussed - > from all viewponts. And most important: With respect for those that had > different views. The same way as Janice and you do it. > > There were both woowoo discussions and highly critical discussions. > But there was no dissing of woowoos as soon as they started one of > their discussions. ...which was too bad. Good, vigorous disagreement is the process that winnows the garbage from the good stuff. You were wallowing in garbage, and now you're telling us that that's the way you like it. Fine -- nobody is stopping you. Wallow away. I can't suppress any of your posts. > > > Of course reading others saying stuff one self regards as bunk and > leaving them to go on doing so, instead of "correcting" them, takes > stamina. It also takes an understanding that the world is not in an > dire need of saving. And that one has not got an moral duty to do so. What you don't seem to appreciate is that no one here has the power to stop anyone else from saying whatever they want. I can say "bunk!" to you, and it has absolutely no effect on you, unless you let it. You are living in a world where lots of people have lots of different opinions. We skeptics seem to be able to cope with that, but it's you who wants to suppress the ones you don't like. I'll tell you what takes real stamina and strength: supporting your ideas outside of an artificial cocoon. Complaining that you and your fellows are too wimpy to do that is *not* a convincing argument. > > That is something missionaries seem to miss. The rest of the world > hates them for this. When the day comes that I can withhold food, shelter, and medicine from you unless you can recite Occam's Razor to me, praise Randi, and join us in a hymn to the Blessed Sagan, then you can trot out that bogus analogy. -- pz ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:00:11 -0600 Organization: Happy Noodle Boy! Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> Reply-To: myers@mac.invalid X-Trace: laurel.tc.umn.edu 1015628408 8568 146.57.32.36 (8 Mar 2002 23:00:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@laurel.tc.umn.edu User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: "w/5:'{b21!-UbG8:}Tk?P%!\!n(cgznyt]sJL5N2_2bsRhGTRJ%UX!Wx%GgGA.Ri]*PQJB>y%sHxmrIRlVPU/3\@JI8H}KHLQbbzA)1j,*4mxqqt\}[L"XpE1\C7xg2mJH]NelCKASP;xvO'}"W(8y+kf,EyaeHk"h.DUlJ-L%p+jk|E1i0V>_$(5nnx,'GnM^%Sd0V Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.online.be!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!209.98.3.206!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hardy.tc.umn.edu!laurel.tc.umn.edu!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82312 In article <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, "lorz" wrote: > "Neil Franklin" wrote in message > news:6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch... [snip whiny tripe] > Hear, Hear, Well said! This man deserves a title! OK. How 'bout "idiot"? -- pz ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com> References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 69 Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:21:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.88.50 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015629832 62.253.88.50 (Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:23:52 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:23:52 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!newsfeed.mesh.ad.jp!newsfeed2.kddnet.ad.jp!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82287 On 08 Mar 2002 23:03:48 +0100, Neil Franklin wrote: >The problem is not "expressing scepticism". It is an pattern of >repeated deliberate attacks, grinding down their targets nerves. snip >Of course reading others saying stuff one self regards as bunk and >leaving them to go on doing so, instead of "correcting" them, takes >stamina. It also takes an understanding that the world is not in an >dire need of saving. And that one has not got an moral duty to do so. >That is something missionaries seem to miss. The rest of the world >hates them for this. I wrote a long reply to Neil for his excellent and courteous post. As emailing computer geniuses rarely seems to work, (so well defended from attack!) I decided to post my letter here. Many thanks to Neil and to the other people who sent me considered and supportive comments. Anyway: I really would love to post what I do in alt-oob, as I used to for the last seven years or so. But these sceptics (do they do anything else but post here, like work?) are unfailingly critical of everything I try to say. This group was supportive enough before their arrival to manifest a whole 'body of evidence' which has been enough to convince me that my oobe work really does work. From that strength of conviction I draw the energy to repeatedly achieve the 'impossible'. I visit people, describe their homes, and heal them. I have even literally 'saved the life ' of one infrequent poster for which I am grateful. I am deeply hurt that not one of the people I have visited in astonishing and unfailingly correct detail is willing to discuss this in the group since these sceptics arrived. Instead they call me a liar amongst many other names. Fortunately, the skills I honed in the past in alt.oob are of real value to me and others now. In my healing work, I take people deep into their pasts, in a safe and supportive way. In every healing, my guides show me a significant artefact in such exact detail that the person can only accept that I was there with them, and feel safe and 'rescued' as a consequence.These are people who have gone through years of counselling by professionals and yet never made the 'breakthrough', because of their intense and valid fear. I do that for them. It changes their lives. For many people the oobe techniques I have learned literally do solve all their problems. That is a genuine blessing. Oh - and for the cynics - I never charge for healing. I am not proud of all this but I do feel that if I can learn to do it, so can others. It seems to offer real solutions for the deep crises human beings suffer. Using some of these oobe skills and aspects, profesional people across the world are now beginning to train in very practical techniques for undoing the damage of childhood sexual abuse and rape, for which no other 'cure' has previously been found. But acute sensitivity to attack goes with the territory of a healer. This is especially true if that attack is persistent and sustained. It is no use for others to tell me not to be so sensitive, to ignore attacks. I have no idea what this 'killfile' process is - I see no buttons for it on my screen! Neither, really, do I want to learn. It would hardly work, as other people include snips of the attackers' text anyway. It is indeed sad that such an infinitely valuable human resource as the ability to go oobe is being continuously derided and belittled in alt.oob. There does not seem to be anywhere else it could be so easily learned and freely shared. Love from Julia ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 17:32:04 -0600 Organization: Happy Noodle Boy! Lines: 108 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com> Reply-To: myers@mac.invalid X-Trace: laurel.tc.umn.edu 1015630321 8568 146.57.32.36 (8 Mar 2002 23:32:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@laurel.tc.umn.edu User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: "w/5:'{b21!-UbG8:}Tk?P%!\!n(cgznyt]sJL5N2_2bsRhGTRJ%UX!Wx%GgGA.Ri]*PQJB>y%sHxmrIRlVPU/3\@JI8H}KHLQbbzA)1j,*4mxqqt\}[L"XpE1\C7xg2mJH]NelCKASP;xvO'}"W(8y+kf,EyaeHk"h.DUlJ-L%p+jk|E1i0V>_$(5nnx,'GnM^%Sd0V Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hardy.tc.umn.edu!laurel.tc.umn.edu!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82309 In article <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote: > On 08 Mar 2002 23:03:48 +0100, Neil Franklin > wrote: > >The problem is not "expressing scepticism". It is an pattern of > >repeated deliberate attacks, grinding down their targets nerves. > snip > > >Of course reading others saying stuff one self regards as bunk and > >leaving them to go on doing so, instead of "correcting" them, takes > >stamina. It also takes an understanding that the world is not in an > >dire need of saving. And that one has not got an moral duty to do so. > >That is something missionaries seem to miss. The rest of the world > >hates them for this. > > I wrote a long reply to Neil for his excellent and courteous post. As > emailing computer geniuses rarely seems to work, (so well defended > from attack!) I decided to post my letter here. Many thanks to Neil > and to the other people who sent me considered and supportive > comments. Anyway: > > I really would love to post what I do in alt-oob, as I used to for the > last seven years or so. But these sceptics (do they do anything else > but post here, like work?) are unfailingly critical of everything I > try to say. Yes, we are. You are a self-deluded charlatan. So? > > This group was supportive enough before their arrival to manifest a > whole 'body of evidence' which has been enough to convince me that my > oobe work really does work. From that strength of conviction I draw > the energy to repeatedly achieve the 'impossible'. I visit people, > describe their homes, and heal them. No, you don't. You CLAIM to heal them. You may even BELIEVE that you heal them. But you don't. > I have even literally 'saved the > life ' of one infrequent poster for which I am grateful. I am deeply > hurt that not one of the people I have visited in astonishing and > unfailingly correct detail Isn't it funny how the "astonishing and unfailingly correct detail" never seems to manifest when unbelievers are around? > is willing to discuss this in the group > since these sceptics arrived. > Instead they call me a liar amongst many other names. > > Fortunately, the skills I honed in the past in alt.oob are of real > value to me and others now. In my healing work, "Work" isn't the right word. "Chicanery", maybe? > I take people deep > into their pasts, in a safe and supportive way. In every healing, my > guides show me a significant artefact in such exact detail that the > person can only accept that I was there with them, and feel safe and > 'rescued' as a consequence.These are people who have gone through > years of counselling by professionals and yet never made the > 'breakthrough', because of their intense and valid fear. I do that for > them. It changes their lives. For many people the oobe techniques I > have learned literally do solve all their problems. That is a genuine > blessing. Oh - and for the cynics - I never charge for healing. > > I am not proud of all this but I do feel that if I can learn to do it, > so can others. It seems to offer real solutions for the deep crises > human beings suffer. No. It's an illusory panacea. It's hokum that detracts from real and substantial efforts to help. > Using some of these oobe skills and aspects, > profesional people across the world are now beginning to train in very > practical techniques for undoing the damage of childhood sexual abuse > and rape, for which no other 'cure' has previously been found. > > But acute sensitivity to attack goes with the territory of a healer. > This is especially true if that attack is persistent and sustained. It > is no use for others to tell me not to be so sensitive, to ignore > attacks. I have no idea what this 'killfile' process is - I see no > buttons for it on my screen! Neither, really, do I want to learn. It > would hardly work, as other people include snips of the attackers' > text anyway. And oh, those snips are so painful to someone as sensitive as you! Baloney. You're a vampire: you dissolve in the light of day. That's all there is to it. > > It is indeed sad that such an infinitely valuable human resource as > the ability to go oobe If you could, it would be wonderful. You can't. > is being continuously derided and belittled in > alt.oob. There does not seem to be anywhere else it could be so easily > learned and freely shared. -- pz ###### NNTP-Posting-Host: user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2002030823420275767@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:42:02 GMT Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body From: J L Williams X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10003900 Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Lines: 113 X-Trace: 1015631263 master.news.zetnet.net 29610 194.247.47.23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!easynet-monga!easynet.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!master.news.zetnet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82243 The message <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> from Neil Franklin contains these words: > I suppose it is time for annother de-lurk to help with a bit of psychology. Hi Neil. snip> > Basically it is impossible to sort "decent" and "attack" posts without > having to have first read them. And then it is already too late. Nerves > have been grated once more. I have a correction here, it's most important and only requires a smidgen of discipline. If the sh** switch or the KILLfile fails you just watch the author.......without glancing at any content. If Auther reads 'Septic' click 'Antibiotic', if no Antibiotic click/press NEXT! You will not feel tired worn or weary at the end but quite refreshed! No scrolling through unsnipped one line trivia designed to tire you from your NG for someone elses entertainment. > > Most newsreaders can be set up to filter out > > unwanted posts. > And past experience shows, that the people in question (Julia, Silk, > etc) do not have enough computer skills to do that. So why keep on > suggesting it? I think you may underestimate their computer skills, also their powers of endurance. > As much as it surprises computer wizzards like you and me, there exist > many people who are just about at the edge of their computer knowledge > in just managing to get onto the net and find newsgroups. Yes, many newbies may well have been truned away :( > > What is more likely is that some people are very > > sensitive to having flaws in their thinking exposed. The sensitive ones are those most likely to succeed in this field I would suggest........I don't know....I only suggest. Seems logical to me Guv! > Nope. They are sensitive to being attacked. Yes, I agree. > It makes no difference whether it is: > a) PZ/Sherilyn the most intelligent attacking ignorant woowoos, or > b) PZ/Sherilyn the total ignoramuse attacking knowledgable people. Who they? > The psychological mechanism in the recipient is the same: repeated > attacks, by people the reciever regards as wrong, grating on the > recievers nerves. And the to be expected resulting anger that results > from such hurting behaviour. All in the name of entertainment for those few. Snip> > Of course, perhaps PZ and Sherily are not out to educate/persuade. > Perhaps they just are the most long-winded trolls in existance. Out to > sadistically enjoy daily kicking others in the butt. Now your ticking, you'm on their tail! Snip> > > > really, this is NOT alt.oob.sceptics. And you really should examine the fact > > > that the sceptics are here BECAUSE they have NOTHING to unite them in the OWN > > > newsgroup. "Septics are leaderless with oob'rs!" Read all abat it! > But his here is alt.oob, which, before PZ and Sherily came, was the group > where people peacefully reported experiences and occasionly discussed - > from all viewponts. And most important: With respect for those that had > different views. The same way as Janice and you do it. Kill, Kill, KILLfile them ALL! Kill, Kill, KILLfile them ALL! Kill, Kill, KILLfile them ALL! > There were both woowoo discussions and highly critical discussions. > But there was no dissing of woowoos as soon as they started one of > their discussions. > Of course reading others saying stuff one self regards as bunk and > leaving them to go on doing so, instead of "correcting" them, takes > stamina. It also takes an understanding that the world is not in an > dire need of saving. And that one has not got an moral duty to do so. > That is something missionaries seem to miss. The rest of the world > hates them for this. Hmmmm, that rings a bell! If you don't believe in what we say we will burn you for being a witch. Thank you Neil. You have said what some of us think. Now click that sh** switch quick, and Kill, Kill, KILLfile them ALL! Enjoy some peace and quiet. Jim PS If they killfile us we will have more peace and quiet, just what we wanted from them :-) :-) :-) We have to be on a winner, quicker than any other strategy. > -- > Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ > Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer > - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### From: David Mitchell Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 23:44:13 +0000 Organization: Paradise Computer Software Message-ID: <3C894CCD.EDCDE7A@edenroad.demon.co.uk> References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: edenroad.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: edenroad.demon.co.uk:194.222.39.57 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1015631441 nnrp-13:7318 NO-IDENT edenroad.demon.co.uk:194.222.39.57 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.4-4GB i686) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 46 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!shale.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!edenroad.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82296 Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > On 08 Mar 2002 23:03:48 +0100, Neil Franklin > wrote: > >The problem is not "expressing scepticism". It is an pattern of > >repeated deliberate attacks, grinding down their targets nerves. > It is indeed sad that such an infinitely valuable human resource as > the ability to go oobe is being continuously derided and belittled in > alt.oob. There does not seem to be anywhere else it could be so easily > learned and freely shared. Julia, whilst I respect your intentions (as stated), don't you think you owe it to those you wish to help to be the very best at what you do? If that's so, don't you think it behooves you to learn from as many diverse sources as possible what techniques, and what methodology underlying those techniques, is the most reliable, accurate and repeatable? Don't you think, even hypothetically, that the methods underlying the most accurate and successful exploration of reality ever known might, perhaps, have something to offer? I know that you don't value the efforts of "scientists", perhaps you don't think that "spiritual" (for want of a better word) matters are within their purview; but you should at least consider the fact that within the domains in which they routinely operate they are _phenomenally_ successful. Surely there must be some way in which you can use that analytic capability to improve your own effectiveness. You are, almost certainly, using some of the tools from the "Scientific Method" toolkit already: don't you already know what "works" and what "doesn't work" when you're trying to go OBE, or heal someone? If so you're already assuming that effect follows cause, that there is order rather than chaos. This is the first step in rational, scientific, thinking. Congratulations! -- ======================================================================= = David - Visit www.thehungersite.com = Mitchell - Feed someone for nothing ======================================================================= ###### From: "Lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 25 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2002 19:38:58 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 19:39:33 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!newsfeeds-atl2!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82395 -- "Write a wise saying and your name will live forever" -- Anonymous pz wrote in message news:pzm-007E7D.17001108032002@laurel.tc.umn.edu... : In article <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, : "lorz" wrote: : : > "Neil Franklin" wrote in message : > news:6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch... : : [snip whiny tripe] : : : > Hear, Hear, Well said! This man deserves a title! : : OK. How 'bout "idiot"? : ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 21:40:00 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-017.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82332 In article <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, neil@franklin.ch.remove says... > They would do well, to go and read Janices remarks about ethnography > in the "Religions" thread. Glad someone appreciated them. :) I don't think of my participation here as research project or anything-- I'm here for the comraderie and the exchange of ideas, tips and experiences, just like most people--it's just that the particular training I had informs the way I approach what I'm doing. -- My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 20 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 03:19:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015643993 80.1.123.25 (Sat, 09 Mar 2002 03:19:53 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 03:19:53 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news-x2.support.nl!newsfeed.freenet.de!lon1-news.nildram.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82274 In message-id , Janice wrote: >In article <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, neil@franklin.ch.remove >says... > >> They would do well, to go and read Janices remarks about ethnography >> in the "Religions" thread. > >Glad someone appreciated them. :) > >I don't think of my participation here as research project or anything-- >I'm here for the comraderie and the exchange of ideas, tips and >experiences, just like most people--it's just that the particular >training I had informs the way I approach what I'm doing. Um, no. You once explicitly stated that you were here to study the flora and fauna of our planet, and did we have change for a Tralfamadorean Ningi. -- Sherilyn "I remember that kind of thing" ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 22:48:46 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-175.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82342 In article <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, lorz@bellsouth.net says... > {snip} > Hear, Hear, Well said! This man deserves a title! And you, young lady, deserve a spanking for not snipping at least some of the 140 lines to which you merely added applause! ;-) Actually Neil already has his own titles: Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer. :) -- If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great disappointments.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:10:58 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-672.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82329 In article <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > This group was supportive enough before their arrival to manifest a > whole 'body of evidence' which has been enough to convince me that my > oobe work really does work. From that strength of conviction I draw > the energy to repeatedly achieve the 'impossible'. I visit people, > describe their homes, and heal them. I have even literally 'saved the > life ' of one infrequent poster for which I am grateful. I am deeply > hurt that not one of the people I have visited in astonishing and > unfailingly correct detail is willing to discuss this in the group > since these sceptics arrived. Julia, if you were to visit my home astrally and produce this "astonishing and unfailingly correct detail" in your description I would be more than willing to mention it in the group. I fear no skeptics. :) Actually I'd be curious if you just focused on my "true self" or "inner condition" or whatever you call it and told me your impression. Two people, one a born-again Christian, the other a Sufi-in-training, have done so in recent months and seen something similar, so it would be interesting if you did as well. > Instead they call me a liar amongst many other names. That I would never do. -- If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great disappointments.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:18:59 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <2002030823420275767@zetnet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-877.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82358 In article <2002030823420275767@zetnet.co.uk>, j.l.williams@zetnet.co.uk says... > Kill, Kill, KILLfile them ALL! Kill, Kill, KILLfile them ALL! Kill, > Kill, KILLfile them ALL! Great idea! [the sound of one click plonking] -- If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great disappointments.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2002 23:52:16 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-380.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!HSNX.atgi.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82372 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > Julia, if you were to visit my home astrally and produce this > "astonishing and unfailingly correct detail" in your description I would > be more than willing to mention it in the group. I fear no skeptics. :) Even better: if I think the results aren't accurate enough to get at least a grudging nod from skeptics, I *won't* mention them publically if you prefer, to save you the aggravation of seeing your honest effort shredded. > Actually I'd be curious if you just focused on my "true self" or "inner > condition" or whatever you call it and told me your impression. Two > people, one a born-again Christian, the other a Sufi-in-training, have > done so in recent months and seen something similar, so it would be > interesting if you did as well. That part I may or may not post, depending on how flattering it is. ;-) -- If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great disappointments.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:26:06 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <3c88b2f1.2940248@news.ntlworld.com> <2002030816143675767@zetnet.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-980.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82363 In article <2002030816143675767@zetnet.co.uk>, j.l.williams@zetnet.co.uk says... > Just click the sh** switch Julia and all is gone, 'Pooooooffffffffffff' ! > After that change your habits to check the author as new id's abound. > Don't ever read anything they say. > If by accident you do (well most used to be one liners) NEVER EVER REPLY. And always construe their going out of their way to help you as just another effort at making life more difficult for you. -- If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great disappointments.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 00:59:44 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-068.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!opentransit.net!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82335 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org says... > In message-id , > Janice wrote: > >I don't think of my participation here as research project or anything-- > >I'm here for the comraderie and the exchange of ideas, tips and > >experiences, just like most people--it's just that the particular > >training I had informs the way I approach what I'm doing. > > Um, no. You once explicitly stated that you were here to study the > flora and fauna of our planet, and did we have change for a > Tralfamadorean Ningi. Was this before or after I sampled that Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster? -- If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great disappointments.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 11:24:34 -0000 Lines: 119 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-2434.cheetah.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news7.svr.pol.co.uk 1015672771 14198 217.134.105.130 (9 Mar 2002 11:19:31 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Mar 2002 11:19:31 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82380 In article <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, neil@franklin.ch.remove says... > I suppose it is time for annother de-lurk to help with a bit of psychology. > > Ian H Spedding writes: > > > In article <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com>, > > silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > > > > > > no, it means she and janice and trish et al are sick and tired of your sceptic > > > crap bullshit and really wish to have a *cleaner* environment in which to > > > express ideas freely without people throwing "shite" at them. > > > > I don't see how expressing scepticism about someone's ideas prevents > > them from talking about them. > > The problem is not "expressing scepticism". It is an pattern of > repeated deliberate attacks, grinding down their targets nerves. Such "attacks" could only have any effect if they were read. Even then, it is only another person's opinion. To me, this objection to criticim is absurd as laws against blasphemy. If I express doubt about someone's religious beliefs, how can that harm them? If God really exists then it is nonsense to suggest that my doubt could have any effect on Him and if the faith of His followers is true then my opinion of it should have no effect whatsoever. I suspect that one reason why some believers react so strongly to adverse comments is that, at some level, they are not as confident of the truth of their beliefs as they would like to be. > > They don't have to read what the > > sceptics have written. > > Reminds me of the useless "you don't need to listen" advice to people > who can't sleep, because some street gang is having parties until > early morning, just outside their house. That's not a good analogy. As you rightly say, it may be impossible to blot out the noise of a nearby street party but, as I said, no one is forcing you to read any of the posts to this or any other newsgroup. > Basically it is impossible to sort "decent" and "attack" posts without > having to have first read them. And then it is already too late. Nerves > have been grated once more. > > > Most newsreaders can be set up to filter out > > unwanted posts. > > And past experience shows, that the people in question (Julia, Silk, > etc) do not have enough computer skills to do that. So why keep on > suggesting it? > > As much as it surprises computer wizzards like you and me, there exist > many people who are just about at the edge of their computer knowledge > in just managing to get onto the net and find newsgroups. I don't count myself as a computer wizard, although I could set up a killfile if I wanted to, but there are a number of people here, far more knowledgeable than I am, who would be happy to explain how unwanted posts could be filtered out. > > What is more likely is that some people are very > > sensitive to having flaws in their thinking exposed. > > Nope. They are sensitive to being attacked. I know but I was suggesting a reason why they were sensitive to being attacked. > It makes no difference whether it is: > > a) PZ/Sherilyn the most intelligent attacking ignorant woowoos, or > b) PZ/Sherilyn the total ignoramuse attacking knowledgable people. > > The psychological mechanism in the recipient is the same: repeated > attacks, by people the reciever regards as wrong, grating on the > recievers nerves. And the to be expected resulting anger that results > from such hurting behaviour. Nobody likes criticism but there is no way to escape it short of isolating yourself from the rest of the world. People who are hurt by it need to ask themselves why it got through to them in the way it did. > Given that both PZ and Sherily have on occasions demonstrated quite a > bit of knowledge on other subjects, and at least some ability at > thinking, it is really surprising that they are totally incompetent > when it comes to understanding even basic psychology. > > If they are really out to try and educate/persuade the woowoos, then > they have chosen an maximum-faillure strategy. Shooting themselves in > both feet. An typical "convert the heatens with the sword" missionary > strategy. It failled in religon, it faills on Usenet. They remind me > of the people one years ago told to "get themselves a life". > > They would do well, to go and read Janices remarks about ethnography > in the "Religions" thread. If you want to persuade someone, you need > to frame your arguments in their reference system. To do so you need > to first understand that system. For that you need to get their > trust. Attacking them faills you. > > Of course, perhaps PZ and Sherily are not out to educate/persuade. > Perhaps they just are the most long-winded trolls in existance. Out to > sadistically enjoy daily kicking others in the butt. More like they enjoy a good intellectual joust, sharpening their wits in the cut-and-thrust of debate. It's a skill that some believers would benefit from developing. Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: "Lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 18 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 10:01:41 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 09:54:54 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.nntpserver.com!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!newsfeeds-atl2!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82241 Janice wrote in message news:MPG.16f35025b6ded646989967@cnews.newsguy.com... : In article <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, : lorz@bellsouth.net says... : > : {snip} : : > Hear, Hear, Well said! This man deserves a title! : : And you, young lady, deserve a spanking for not snipping at least some of : the 140 lines to which you merely added applause! ;-) Crap. Sorry, your Majesty. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 09 Mar 2002 23:08:43 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 140 Message-ID: <6uk7slgzro.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1015711723 637 10.0.3.2 (9 Mar 2002 22:08:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Mar 2002 22:08:43 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82406 Ian H Spedding writes: > In article <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, > neil@franklin.ch.remove says... > > I suppose it is time for annother de-lurk to help with a bit of psychology. > > > > Ian H Spedding writes: > > > > > I don't see how expressing scepticism about someone's ideas prevents > > > them from talking about them. > > > > The problem is not "expressing scepticism". It is an pattern of > > repeated deliberate attacks, grinding down their targets nerves. > > Such "attacks" could only have any effect if they were read. Even > then, it is only another person's opinion. But they are read. So they have effect. Demonstrated in posts. > To me, this objection to criticim is absurd as laws against blasphemy. Not objection to criticism. Objection to 100s of times of repeated attack. It is one thing to tell someone once (or perhaps a few times) that something is to your dislike. It is an entirely other thing to bash them over the head (figuratively) every time they appear. It is the volume that makes it. > If I express doubt about someone's religious beliefs, how can that In this case it is far more then "expressing doubt". It is to an very large amount personal attacks. Calling them anything from woowoo, over dimwit, deluded, to idiot or even charlatan. Multiply that by 100s of times and it ceases to be anything that a civilised person would call "expressing doubt". > adverse comments is that, at some level, they are not as confident of > the truth of their beliefs as they would like to be. Anyone grown up in a society which declares things non-existant is in the middle of an fight against their upbringing. Doubts are an strong part in anyone trying to break societies dictates. > > Reminds me of the useless "you don't need to listen" advice to people > > who can't sleep, because some street gang is having parties until > > early morning, just outside their house. > > That's not a good analogy. As you rightly say, it may be impossible > to blot out the noise of a nearby street party but, as I said, no one > is forcing you to read any of the posts to this or any other > newsgroup. Apart from the post coming in, and the person in question not having an ability to filter them. Most news programs have insufficient filtering. Killing off on References: lines is still an minority thing. The best most people can do is ditch the entire thread as soon as a post from pz or Sherily appears. And that is decidedly sub-optimal for an thread which has an interesting discussion going on in it. > killfile if I wanted to, but there are a number of people here, far > more knowledgeable than I am, who would be happy to explain how > unwanted posts could be filtered out. Effectively, including the followups? With any newsreader? On whatever system they use? Without crashing the others news setup or other side effects? All that offered over the net? I have yet to see such an offer ever offered, taken up _and_ successfully done, in 8 years of being on the net. Lots of "oh sure we will help". But no followup on it. > > > What is more likely is that some people are very > > > sensitive to having flaws in their thinking exposed. > > > > Nope. They are sensitive to being attacked. > > I know but I was suggesting a reason why they were sensitive to being > attacked. And I think that suggested reason is not the right one. Simple aggreviation ist adequate to explain it. > > The psychological mechanism in the recipient is the same: repeated > > attacks, by people the reciever regards as wrong, grating on the > > recievers nerves. And the to be expected resulting anger that results > > from such hurting behaviour. > > Nobody likes criticism but there is no way to escape it short of > isolating yourself from the rest of the world. People who are hurt by > it need to ask themselves why it got through to them in the way it > did. Biology? As much as it may surprise hardend discussers: some people are a lot more sensitive. That is one of the things I have noticed only after a few real-life run-ins: long year Usenetting makes you grow an thick skin and expect it in other people. Can produce some very spectacular effects in RL when aiming at people who have not developed such. > > Of course, perhaps PZ and Sherily are not out to educate/persuade. > > Perhaps they just are the most long-winded trolls in existance. Out to > > sadistically enjoy daily kicking others in the butt. > > More like they enjoy a good intellectual joust, sharpening their wits > in the cut-and-thrust of debate. I would conclude that this group makes an sub-optimal training ground for that. There are enough groups far better for that, such as sci.sceptic, where such is on charter. > It's a skill that some believers > would benefit from developing. OTOH, why demand from people that they develop such, when it is in _our_ interest to get these people to be here. so that we can see their different ideas? I assume that most people _do_ come here to see what others have to say. And the more the better. Especially those with other ideas. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 10 Mar 2002 00:23:58 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 182 Message-ID: <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1015716238 680 10.0.3.2 (9 Mar 2002 23:23:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Mar 2002 23:23:58 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82407 pz writes: > The funny thing is that the skeptics are in exactly the same position: > day after day, we see woo-woos posting the most outrageous bilge, stuff But, you will notice, repeated targeted personal attacks on your person are not in that list. > that contradicts our worldview and is just as obnoxious to us as common So much to your professed "tolerance". It is against your worldview, so it has got to go. If you are too weak to stand the "bilge" may I suggest something: killfile the woowoos. _You_ surely know how to, after all you allways recommend it to others. > sense, materialism, and the scientific method are to you. Replace "you" with "them". You have just demonstrated confusing the reporter with those he is reporting on. And that from the self-proclaimed master of critical thought. Tssss. > Yet you don't > see us squalling that people must be shut down, Since when do people who are capable _and_willing_ to bully others need to make demands? For the case you have not noticed it: _you_ dont squall, because you simply act, and bully others until they leave. Now who is worse: those that ask/demand friendly for civilised behaviour, or those that bully? > Could it be because we're naturally more tolerant and open-minded? > > Nah. Impossible. Exactly: it is impossible to get tolerance and your behaviour under one umbrella. You may have intended that "Nah. Impossible." as satirical, but it actually describes you very well. > Could it be because our opinions are supported by reason and evidence, Now if only your behaviour were that which one expects from people that are driven by reason and evidence, you would be out of trouble. See Janice and Ian for examples of people who can be regarded as driven by reason. You, so far, have only managed to show an lack of even basic social skills. And how to make yourself the near-universially revilled person on the group. That is not what reasonable people do, particularly if their target (as you claim it to be) is to educate and convince others. Up to now you have failled 100%. You may want to rethink your strategy, unless you want to spend annother 2.5 years wasting your time, just thrashing around without achiving anything. > > And past experience shows, that the people in question (Julia, Silk, > > etc) do not have enough computer skills to do that. So why keep on > > suggesting it? > > Because we altruistically would like to spare those poor people those > horrible grated nerves (ouch, that must hurt)? Deriding others pain does not make your position any better either. > > But his here is alt.oob, which, before PZ and Sherily came, was the group > > where people peacefully reported experiences and occasionly discussed - > > from all viewponts. And most important: With respect for those that had > > different views. The same way as Janice and you do it. > > > > There were both woowoo discussions and highly critical discussions. > > But there was no dissing of woowoos as soon as they started one of > > their discussions. > > ...which was too bad. Good, vigorous disagreement is the process that > winnows the garbage from the good stuff. One mans dirt is an others treasure. > nobody is stopping you. Wallow away. I can't suppress any of your posts. As you are in that sentance using "you = woowoos": You can drive out woowoos by your bullying. As has been demonstrated. That per definiton stops their posts. You know that. Nice to see you lieing in such an obvious fashion. Just helped discredit you a bit more. You have just stepped annother step away from your declared target of convincing people here. > > Of course reading others saying stuff one self regards as bunk and > > leaving them to go on doing so, instead of "correcting" them, takes > > stamina. It also takes an understanding that the world is not in an > > dire need of saving. And that one has not got an moral duty to do so. > > What you don't seem to appreciate is that no one here has the power to > stop anyone else from saying whatever they want. Repeated debunked claim. > I can say "bunk!" to > you, and it has absolutely no effect on you, unless you let it. It has no _direct_ effect on me, because I have an _very_ thick skin. It does have an effect on others here, whose posts I want to see, and so an indirect one on me. FYI: like Janice, I come here to try and understand others ("research the flora and fauna", nicely said Janice). Your effect on the fauna is destructive. To put it in terms you may understand: You are AFAIK a biologist, doing something on nerves. So working with animals (possibly dead ones, or even partial ones). So you surely know what groups like PETA are. Think about them trying to surpress "them horrible biologsts" by an similar bullying strategy like you do: systematically raid laboratories and destroy everything (oh wait, they do that). I assume you will have a strong dislike for these PETA people. That is the type of dislike I have for you. Same bullying behaviour. Same reaction in the reciever. > You are > living in a world where lots of people have lots of different opinions. I have nothing against other opinions. I have something against bullies who want to exterminate other peoples opinions. Until you manage to comprehend, that there is a difference from having an opinion to bullying others, I suppose you will not understand that line. > We skeptics seem to be able to cope with that, but it's you who wants to > suppress the ones you don't like. Pot calling kettle back. Try to surpress others by bullying them and then complain about "surpressing" when people only _ask_ you to behave. Nice try pz. But I am too good at critical[1] thinking to fall for it. You failled in your plea. [1] Being a programmer/sysadmin requires the same critical thinking that an forensical expert has: "Now why did that program/computer die?" Develops a good bullshit filter. > > That is something missionaries seem to miss. The rest of the world > > hates them for this. > > When the day comes that I can withhold food, shelter, and medicine from > you unless you can recite Occam's Razor to me, praise Randi, and join us > in a hymn to the Blessed Sagan, then you can trot out that bogus analogy. You don't seem to be capable to see the difference between motivation (missionarism) and range of effect (psychological vs bodily harm). Now why am I not surprised? -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### Lines: 12 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 09 Mar 2002 21:31:06 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-mu) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020309163106.02786.00000144@mb-mu.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!portc-m01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82416 >> Um, no. You once explicitly stated that you were here to study the >> flora and fauna of our planet, and did we have change for a >> Tralfamadorean Ningi. I've got a few spare quatloos, if that helps... To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 33 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 09 Mar 2002 21:31:08 GMT References: <2002030823420275767@zetnet.co.uk> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-mu) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020309163108.02786.00000145@mb-mu.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!portc-m01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82421 In article <2002030823420275767@zetnet.co.uk>, J L Williams writes: > >> > Most newsreaders can be set up to filter out >> > unwanted posts. > >> And past experience shows, that the people in question (Julia, Silk, >> etc) do not have enough computer skills to do that. So why keep on >> suggesting it? > >I think you may underestimate their computer skills, also their >powers of endurance. > I think Julia mentioned she was unable to use a filter since no one ever showed her how. I think the very fact that she would *need* to use a filter is what bothers her. Why use a water purifier since the water should NOT be polluted to begin with? address the problem (kill the skeptics) rather than the bandaid (using a filter). As far as my own PC abilities, they are formidable, but only in the realm of diagnosing and repairing / maintaining usable PCs in windows and dos environments. I can diagnose PC boxes which run unix and NT and other OS's, but not from those platforms. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 18 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 09 Mar 2002 21:31:09 GMT References: <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-mu) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020309163109.02786.00000146@mb-mu.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!portc-m01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82424 In article <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin writes: >That is something missionaries seem to miss. The rest of the world >hates them for this. > > >-- >Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ >Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer >- Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery nice of you to de-lurk, Neil ... and so eloquently at that! :) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 22 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 09 Mar 2002 21:31:11 GMT References: <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-mu) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020309163111.02786.00000147@mb-mu.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-hub.siol.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!portc-m01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82413 In article <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, "lorz" writes: >> Of course reading others saying stuff one self regards as bunk and >> leaving them to go on doing so, instead of "correcting" them, takes >> stamina. It also takes an understanding that the world is not in an >> dire need of saving. And that one has not got an moral duty to do so. >> >> That is something missionaries seem to miss. The rest of the world >> hates them for this. >> > > >Hear, Hear, Well said! This man deserves a title! > Royal Truth Revealer? To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 19 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:39:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.234 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1015709995 208.26.165.234 (Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:39:55 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 13:39:55 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82438 "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message news:MPG.16f3fc9933c4af26989751@news.freeserve.com... > In article <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, > neil@franklin.ch.remove says... > > Of course, perhaps PZ and Sherily are not out to educate/persuade. > > Perhaps they just are the most long-winded trolls in existance. Out to > > sadistically enjoy daily kicking others in the butt. > > More like they enjoy a good intellectual joust, sharpening their wits > in the cut-and-thrust of debate. It's a skill that some believers > would benefit from developing. Look where that got me. Sherilyn's evidently plonked me, because I engaged her in just such a way. Now, evidently, I'm one of the big bad a******* in the NG. It's a shame, because I genuinely like Sherilyn. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 18:24:58 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <2002030823420275767@zetnet.co.uk> <20020309163108.02786.00000145@mb-mu.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-554.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82583 In article <20020309163108.02786.00000145@mb-mu.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > I think Julia mentioned she was unable to use a filter since no one ever showed > her how. Last I checked she was using FreeAgent, which doesn't have filtering capabilities except when used in conjunction with a program such as Newsproxy. > I think the very fact that she would *need* to use a filter is what bothers > her. Why use a water purifier since the water should NOT be polluted to begin > with? address the problem (kill the skeptics) rather than the bandaid (using a > filter). So much for Matthew 5:43-48. -- If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great disappointments.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw Lines: 146 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:50:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.112.46 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1015717846 206.146.112.46 (Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:50:46 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:50:46 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82547 In article <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin wrote: > pz writes: > > > The funny thing is that the skeptics are in exactly the same position: > > day after day, we see woo-woos posting the most outrageous bilge, stuff > > But, you will notice, repeated targeted personal attacks on your > person are not in that list. Sure it is. What do you call this post of yours? The most routinely reviled people on this newsgroup are Garrison Hilliard, Sherilyn, and me. I'm not concerned about it, but you sure are...but only when people with ideas you favor are subjected to it. Anyone else...well, that's OK. They're fair game. > > > > that contradicts our worldview and is just as obnoxious to us as common > > So much to your professed "tolerance". It is against your worldview, > so it has got to go. > This is reprehensible and dishonest. I have said that it is obnoxious. I have not said that I am unable to tolerate it; in particular, I have not said that it should go. > If you are too weak to stand the "bilge" may I suggest something: > killfile the woowoos. _You_ surely know how to, after all you allways > recommend it to others. I have no problem standing against the bilge. That's my point, silly man: the skeptics are not telling anyone to leave. You are. [snip] > > > Of course reading others saying stuff one self regards as bunk and > > > leaving them to go on doing so, instead of "correcting" them, takes > > > stamina. It also takes an understanding that the world is not in an > > > dire need of saving. And that one has not got an moral duty to do so. > > > > What you don't seem to appreciate is that no one here has the power to > > stop anyone else from saying whatever they want. > > Repeated debunked claim. How? I can't stop anyone from writing and posting whatever they want. You can't stop me. If you've got some magical recipe for suppressing dissenting opinions, you ought to share it -- there's a bunch of your woo-woo friends who would leap to use it. > > > > I can say "bunk!" to > > you, and it has absolutely no effect on you, unless you let it. > > It has no _direct_ effect on me, because I have an _very_ thick skin. > It does have an effect on others here, whose posts I want to see, and > so an indirect one on me. > > > FYI: like Janice, I come here to try and understand others ("research > the flora and fauna", nicely said Janice). Your effect on the fauna is > destructive. To put it in terms you may understand: > > You are AFAIK a biologist, doing something on nerves. So working with > animals (possibly dead ones, or even partial ones). So you surely know > what groups like PETA are. Think about them trying to surpress "them > horrible biologsts" by an similar bullying strategy like you do: > systematically raid laboratories and destroy everything (oh wait, they > do that). > > I assume you will have a strong dislike for these PETA people. That is > the type of dislike I have for you. Same bullying behaviour. Same > reaction in the reciever. Wrong, wrong, wrong. If people like that confined themselves to writing, making arguments, publishing ideas, then it would be fine and your analogy would be appropriate. You can find no analogous behavior here. I haven't physically destroyed anything. I haven't prevented anyone from doing what they will. > > > > You are > > living in a world where lots of people have lots of different opinions. > > I have nothing against other opinions. I have something against > bullies who want to exterminate other peoples opinions. > > Until you manage to comprehend, that there is a difference from > having an opinion to bullying others, I suppose you will not > understand that line. > > > > We skeptics seem to be able to cope with that, but it's you who wants to > > suppress the ones you don't like. > > Pot calling kettle back. Try to surpress others by bullying them and > then complain about "surpressing" when people only _ask_ you to behave. > > Nice try pz. But I am too good at critical[1] thinking to fall for it. > You failled in your plea. No, what I've seen from you so far is nothing but obtuseness. You have never exhibited any particular aptitude for critical thinking here. You have been making this incredibly stupid claim that I'm a bully who wants to exterminate other people's opinions -- and somehow I'm doing this by expressing my opinions. But what does that make you? You're expressing your opinions. You're attempting to "bully" me into leaving this newsgroup. > > [1] Being a programmer/sysadmin requires the same critical thinking > that an forensical expert has: "Now why did that program/computer die?" > Develops a good bullshit filter. > > > > > That is something missionaries seem to miss. The rest of the world > > > hates them for this. > > > > When the day comes that I can withhold food, shelter, and medicine from > > you unless you can recite Occam's Razor to me, praise Randi, and join us > > in a hymn to the Blessed Sagan, then you can trot out that bogus analogy. > > You don't seem to be capable to see the difference between motivation > (missionarism) and range of effect (psychological vs bodily harm). > > Now why am I not surprised? Because you aren't very bright, and you are committed to your bigoted point of view? You've just compared me to people who destroy other peoples life work, who burn down property, who extort a desired behavior from others. You've got a serious problem with perspective. You're just going to have to learn to live with the fact that I have my opinion, and I express it. -- pz ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. References: <2002030823420275767@zetnet.co.uk> <20020309163108.02786.00000145@mb-mu.aol.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw Lines: 29 Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:54:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.112.46 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1015718096 206.146.112.46 (Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:54:56 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 17:54:56 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82543 In article , Janice wrote: > In article <20020309163108.02786.00000145@mb-mu.aol.com>, > silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > > > I think Julia mentioned she was unable to use a filter since no one ever > > showed > > her how. > > Last I checked she was using FreeAgent, which doesn't have filtering > capabilities except when used in conjunction with a program such as > Newsproxy. > > > I think the very fact that she would *need* to use a filter is what bothers > > her. Why use a water purifier since the water should NOT be polluted to > > begin > > with? address the problem (kill the skeptics) rather than the bandaid > > (using a > > filter). > > > So much for Matthew 5:43-48. I presume from the context that Mr. Silk is not using "kill" in the sense of a killfile. Why am I not surprised? -- pz ###### NNTP-Posting-Host: user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2002031000162075767@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:16:20 GMT Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body From: J L Williams X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10003900 Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <20020309163111.02786.00000147@mb-mu.aol.com> Lines: 33 X-Trace: 1015721794 master.news.zetnet.net 29611 194.247.47.23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!master.news.zetnet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82443 The message <20020309163111.02786.00000147@mb-mu.aol.com> from silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) contains these words: > In article <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, "lorz" > writes: > >> Of course reading others saying stuff one self regards as bunk and > >> leaving them to go on doing so, instead of "correcting" them, takes > >> stamina. It also takes an understanding that the world is not in an > >> dire need of saving. And that one has not got an moral duty to do so. > >> > >> That is something missionaries seem to miss. The rest of the world > >> hates them for this. > >> > > > > > >Hear, Hear, Well said! This man deserves a title! > > > Royal Truth Revealer? Certainly Heralds a revelation? :) > To send personal e-mail, please write to: > richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. > All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### NNTP-Posting-Host: user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2002031000252775767@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:25:27 GMT Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body From: J L Williams X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10003900 Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uk7slgzro.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Lines: 26 X-Trace: 1015721796 master.news.zetnet.net 29611 194.247.47.23 X-Received-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 00:56:43 GMT (newsr2.u-net.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news-x2.support.nl!cleanfeed.casema.net!leda.casema.net!newsr2.u-net.net!peernews.manap.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!master.news.zetnet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82447 The message <6uk7slgzro.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> from Neil Franklin contains these words: snipped long well answered post> > OTOH, why demand from people that they develop such, when it is in > _our_ interest to get these people to be here. so that we can see > their different ideas? > I assume that most people _do_ come here to see what others have to > say. And the more the better. Especially those with other ideas. Well done! I dont bother wasting my few typing skills on such rubbish but you obviously have more energy and commitment. Have a virtual drink on me sir! Jim PS Only Septics responses are KILLFILED. > -- > Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ > Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer > - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Sat, 9 Mar 2002 19:52:06 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: <2002030823420275767@zetnet.co.uk> <20020309163108.02786.00000145@mb-mu.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-188.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82570 In article , pzm@mac.com says... > In article , > Janice wrote: > > > In article <20020309163108.02786.00000145@mb-mu.aol.com>, > > silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > > > I think the very fact that she would *need* to use a filter is what bothers > > > her. Why use a water purifier since the water should NOT be polluted to > > > begin > > > with? address the problem (kill the skeptics) rather than the bandaid > > > (using a > > > filter). > > > > > > So much for Matthew 5:43-48. > > I presume from the context that Mr. Silk is not using "kill" in the > sense of a killfile. Why am I not surprised? Aux armes citoyens! Formez vos bataillons, Marchons, marchons! Qu'un sang impur Abreuve nos sillons. -- If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great disappointments.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### NNTP-Posting-Host: user-10003900.zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2002031001020775767@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 01:02:07 GMT Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body From: J L Williams X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10003900 Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <2002030823420275767@zetnet.co.uk> <20020309163108.02786.00000145@mb-mu.aol.com> Lines: 50 X-Trace: 1015721812 master.news.zetnet.net 29611 194.247.47.23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!colt.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!easynet-monga!easynet.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!master.news.zetnet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82444 The message <20020309163108.02786.00000145@mb-mu.aol.com> from silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) contains these words: > In article <2002030823420275767@zetnet.co.uk>, J L Williams > writes: snip> > >I think you may underestimate their computer skills, also their > >powers of endurance. > > > I think Julia mentioned she was unable to use a filter since no one ever showed > her how. Yes I recognised that soon after typing. Julia told me. Hence my quick follow up with the killfile FAQ. I think some assitance may still be needed though. > I think the very fact that she would *need* to use a filter is what bothers > her. Yes, her trust is so 100%, but she is amongst rogues here. > Why use a water purifier since the water should NOT be polluted to begin > with? address the problem (kill the skeptics) rather than the bandaid (using a > filter). Yes I agree. If *everyone* that wanted a clear unsullied response KILLFILED those that wont give the same, then we would have a clear unsullied NG. Hurrah for the KILLFILERS! Also just continue with emailing those confidential OBE reports. Don't give the Septics a chance to entertain themselves at others expence. > As far as my own PC abilities, they are formidable, but only in the realm of > diagnosing and repairing / maintaining usable PCs in windows and dos > environments. > I can diagnose PC boxes which run unix and NT and other OS's, but not from > those platforms. Yes well pass? :-} Cheers Jim (I can switch of and very very good, and killfiling is excellent) > To send personal e-mail, please write to: > richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. > All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:14:11 -0000 Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <2002030823420275767@zetnet.co.uk> <20020309163108.02786.00000145@mb-mu.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-793.cheetah.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk 1015726145 24112 217.134.99.25 (10 Mar 2002 02:09:05 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Mar 2002 02:09:05 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82631 In article <20020309163108.02786.00000145@mb-mu.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > In article <2002030823420275767@zetnet.co.uk>, J L Williams > writes: > > > > >> > Most newsreaders can be set up to filter out > >> > unwanted posts. > > > >> And past experience shows, that the people in question (Julia, Silk, > >> etc) do not have enough computer skills to do that. So why keep on > >> suggesting it? > > > >I think you may underestimate their computer skills, also their > >powers of endurance. > > I think Julia mentioned she was unable to use a filter since no one ever showed > her how. > I think the very fact that she would *need* to use a filter is what bothers > her. Why use a water purifier since the water should NOT be polluted to begin > with? address the problem (kill the skeptics) rather than the bandaid (using a > filter). The world has to be dealt with as it is, not the way we would like it to be. If water is polluted then then the immediate solution is to filter it rather than complain about the pollution. By the same token, offensive posts should be filtered out - or ignored. Personally, I find it easier to ignore them - even the really obnoxious ones that mention Proust and parturition. Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:14:12 -0000 Lines: 151 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uk7slgzro.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-793.cheetah.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk 1015726148 24112 217.134.99.25 (10 Mar 2002 02:09:08 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Mar 2002 02:09:08 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82620 In article <6uk7slgzro.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, neil@franklin.ch.remove says... > Ian H Spedding writes: > > > In article <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, > > neil@franklin.ch.remove says... > > > I suppose it is time for annother de-lurk to help with a bit of psychology. > > > > > > Ian H Spedding writes: > > > > > > > I don't see how expressing scepticism about someone's ideas prevents > > > > them from talking about them. > > > > > > The problem is not "expressing scepticism". It is an pattern of > > > repeated deliberate attacks, grinding down their targets nerves. > > > > Such "attacks" could only have any effect if they were read. Even > > then, it is only another person's opinion. > > But they are read. So they have effect. Demonstrated in posts. Yes, I know, but the question is: why bother? There is a great deal of material on the 'Net that I find deeply offensive but I don't feel compelled to go and read it. If you subscribe to a newsgroup there is always the risk that someone will post something you don't like but you have to take the rough with the smooth. Even where trolls mount a concerted attack in an attempt to "destroy" a group, they can only succeed if people pay attention to them. Ignore them and they will eventually lose interest and go away. > > To me, this objection to criticim is absurd as laws against blasphemy. > > Not objection to criticism. Objection to 100s of times of repeated > attack. > > It is one thing to tell someone once (or perhaps a few times) that > something is to your dislike. It is an entirely other thing to bash > them over the head (figuratively) every time they appear. > > It is the volume that makes it. And that is what killfiles are most useful for - filtering out large amounts of unwanted material rather than laboriously deleting it post by post. > > If I express doubt about someone's religious beliefs, how can that > > In this case it is far more then "expressing doubt". It is to an very > large amount personal attacks. Calling them anything from woowoo, > over dimwit, deluded, to idiot or even charlatan. > > Multiply that by 100s of times and it ceases to be anything that a > civilised person would call "expressing doubt". I agree that name-calling as such serves no purpose in an argument, but people are still entitled to express strong feelings if they want to. When it comes down to it, though, it is still a case of "sticks and stones". > > adverse comments is that, at some level, they are not as confident of > > the truth of their beliefs as they would like to be. > > Anyone grown up in a society which declares things non-existant is in > the middle of an fight against their upbringing. Doubts are an strong > part in anyone trying to break societies dictates. If by that you mean that doubt is a good thing in these areas then I agree. Doubt is the best antidote to any kind of dogmatic thinking, which includes unquestioning belief in all kinds of paranormal phenomena and superstitions. > > > Reminds me of the useless "you don't need to listen" advice to people > > > who can't sleep, because some street gang is having parties until > > > early morning, just outside their house. > > > > That's not a good analogy. As you rightly say, it may be impossible > > to blot out the noise of a nearby street party but, as I said, no one > > is forcing you to read any of the posts to this or any other > > newsgroup. > > Apart from the post coming in, and the person in question not having > an ability to filter them. Most news programs have insufficient > filtering. Killing off on References: lines is still an minority thing. > > The best most people can do is ditch the entire thread as soon as a > post from pz or Sherily appears. And that is decidedly sub-optimal for > an thread which has an interesting discussion going on in it. Nobody is claiming that killfiles are a perfect solution and, as we know, there are ways to circumvent them but even so they are still effective enough to make them well worth using. > > killfile if I wanted to, but there are a number of people here, far > > more knowledgeable than I am, who would be happy to explain how > > unwanted posts could be filtered out. > > Effectively, including the followups? With any newsreader? On whatever > system they use? Without crashing the others news setup or other side > effects? All that offered over the net? > > I have yet to see such an offer ever offered, taken up _and_ successfully > done, in 8 years of being on the net. > > Lots of "oh sure we will help". But no followup on it. The fact is that the solutions are out there for anyone to use if they want to. Granted that some of them can be fiddly to set up but if someone is able to operate a computer, open an account with an ISP and use the Web, email and Usenet then it shouldn't be beyond them if they put their mind to it. And, as I said, help is available. They need only ask. > > > > What is more likely is that some people are very > > > > sensitive to having flaws in their thinking exposed. > > > > > > Nope. They are sensitive to being attacked. > > > > I know but I was suggesting a reason why they were sensitive to being > > attacked. > > And I think that suggested reason is not the right one. Simple > aggreviation ist adequate to explain it. No, aggravation is a description not an explanation. > > > The psychological mechanism in the recipient is the same: repeated > > > attacks, by people the reciever regards as wrong, grating on the > > > recievers nerves. And the to be expected resulting anger that results > > > from such hurting behaviour. > > > > Nobody likes criticism but there is no way to escape it short of > > isolating yourself from the rest of the world. People who are hurt by > > it need to ask themselves why it got through to them in the way it > > did. > > Biology? As much as it may surprise hardend discussers: some people > are a lot more sensitive. Psychology rather than biology, but there is a limit to how much of an allowance you can make for other people's sensitivity, otherwise you could not say anything for fear of causing offence to someone. [...] Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: izaak@whoever.com (Isaac) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 9 Mar 2002 18:18:22 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <3c88b2f1.2940248@news.ntlworld.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.11.26.152 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1015726703 10791 127.0.0.1 (10 Mar 2002 02:18:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Mar 2002 02:18:23 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!newsfeed.online.be!sn-xit-01!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82572 julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote in message news:<3c88b2f1.2940248@news.ntlworld.com>... > On 07 Mar 2002 18:11:21 GMT, silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) > wrote: > > >>Consequently, any purported evidence that Julia and company will present > >>must be presented only to people whom she believes to be gullible enough > >>to fall for it or diplomatic enough not to question too closely. > > >no, it means she and janice and trish et al are sick and tired of your sceptic > >crap bullshit and really wish to have a *cleaner* environment in which to > >express ideas freely without people throwing "shite" at them. > > Well, I wouldn't have put it quite that way myself, but I am just as > weary of Sherilyn's gratuitious insults and attacks on me as I ever > was before. Somebody please email me when he has gone and perhaps we > can get back to talking about out-of-body experiences here. > > Take care out there, all of you, > Love from Julia Hi Julia! I'm glad to see that you are still here too. I haven't rooted around enough to get a feel for the nature of your engagement with Sherilyn, but I hope you hang in here. -- Isaac ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 9 Mar 2002 18:26:29 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-974.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.91 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82479 In message-id , "dorothy" wrote: > >"Ian H Spedding" wrote in message >news:MPG.16f3fc9933c4af26989751@news.freeserve.com... [...] >> >> More like they enjoy a good intellectual joust, sharpening their wits >> in the cut-and-thrust of debate. It's a skill that some believers >> would benefit from developing. > >Look where that got me. Sherilyn's evidently plonked me, because I engaged >her in just such a way. Now, evidently, I'm one of the big bad a******* in >the NG. It's a shame, because I genuinely like Sherilyn. > As far as I could tell, you only seemed to be interested in discussing your own imputation to me of dishonest motives. Sorry if that was a misinterpretation on my part, but I don't generally see any point in continuing a discussion in such circumstances. The anti-skeptic bandwagon seemed to be really rolling for a while there, and although I know you're not one of the skeptic-chasers there was a point at which every posting I opened was either an attack on a skeptic or a skeptic (sometimes me!) responding to an attack. This isn't good for the newsgroup in the long run and so I disengaged from a number of subthreads and played with Janice and Lorz and PZ for a bit (which is what I mostly do in any case). -- Sherilyn ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uk7slgzro.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 50 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:40:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015728046 80.1.123.25 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:40:46 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:40:46 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!newsfeed.icl.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82469 In message-id , Ian H Spedding wrote: >In article <6uk7slgzro.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, >neil@franklin.ch.remove says... [...] > >> > killfile if I wanted to, but there are a number of people here, far >> > more knowledgeable than I am, who would be happy to explain how >> > unwanted posts could be filtered out. >> >> Effectively, including the followups? With any newsreader? On whatever >> system they use? Without crashing the others news setup or other side >> effects? All that offered over the net? >> >> I have yet to see such an offer ever offered, taken up _and_ successfully >> done, in 8 years of being on the net. You're being a little disingenuous, here. I don't think Ian was suggesting that there is any automated way to filter out every single posting that is likely to be offensive to anyone, no matter what the reader's circumstances. Most followups to my postings can be filtered on sherilyn\.org\.uk in the References header (with the exception of the very occasional posting from Newsguy's web interface, where I have no control over the message-id. I set the message-id deliberately for my own purposes--so that I can score up postings that are followups to my own--but any good newsreader should be able to do the same to score down such postings. You can use nfilter on Windows to do this, and it works with any newsreader capable of online reading. Mac and UNIX newsreaders usually have built-in scoring facilities that are able to do this, too. >> >> Lots of "oh sure we will help". But no followup on it. > >The fact is that the solutions are out there for anyone to use if they >want to. Granted that some of them can be fiddly to set up but if >someone is able to operate a computer, open an account with an ISP and >use the Web, email and Usenet then it shouldn't be beyond them if they >put their mind to it. And, as I said, help is available. They need >only ask. A couple of years ago when we had the big troll attack, I set up a nfilter-baaed filtering system that seemed to work pretty well whilst it was needed. It didn't take that much work to set up, and the trolls gave up pretty quickly. [...] -- Sherilyn ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <3c88b2f1.2940248@news.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 15 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:42:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015728148 80.1.123.25 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:42:28 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:42:28 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82460 In message-id , Isaac wrote: [...] > >I'm glad to see that you are still here too. I haven't rooted around >enough to get a feel for the nature of your engagement with Sherilyn, Faraday cages. >but I hope you hang in here. > -- Sherilyn ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uk7slgzro.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw Lines: 61 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 02:56:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.112.27 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1015729007 206.146.112.27 (Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:56:47 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 20:56:47 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82532 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) wrote: > In message-id , > Ian H Spedding wrote: > >In article <6uk7slgzro.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, > >neil@franklin.ch.remove says... > [...] > > > >> > killfile if I wanted to, but there are a number of people here, far > >> > more knowledgeable than I am, who would be happy to explain how > >> > unwanted posts could be filtered out. > >> > >> Effectively, including the followups? With any newsreader? On whatever > >> system they use? Without crashing the others news setup or other side > >> effects? All that offered over the net? > >> > >> I have yet to see such an offer ever offered, taken up _and_ successfully > >> done, in 8 years of being on the net. > > You're being a little disingenuous, here. I don't think Ian was > suggesting that there is any automated way to filter out every single > posting that is likely to be offensive to anyone, no matter what the > reader's circumstances. > > Most followups to my postings can be filtered on sherilyn\.org\.uk > in the References header (with the exception of the very occasional > posting from Newsguy's web interface, where I have no control over > the message-id. I set the message-id deliberately for my own > purposes--so that I can score up postings that are followups to my > own--but any good newsreader should be able to do the same to score down > such postings. You can use nfilter on Windows to do this, and it works > with any newsreader capable of online reading. Mac and UNIX newsreaders > usually have built-in scoring facilities that are able to do this, too. > > >> > >> Lots of "oh sure we will help". But no followup on it. > > > >The fact is that the solutions are out there for anyone to use if they > >want to. Granted that some of them can be fiddly to set up but if > >someone is able to operate a computer, open an account with an ISP and > >use the Web, email and Usenet then it shouldn't be beyond them if they > >put their mind to it. And, as I said, help is available. They need > >only ask. > > A couple of years ago when we had the big troll attack, I set up a > nfilter-baaed filtering system that seemed to work pretty well whilst > it was needed. It didn't take that much work to set up, and the trolls > gave up pretty quickly. > > [...] And I *have* posted instructions on how to filter out any of my posts as well as follow-ups, and have offered copies of my XML filters that show how that is done. I can't say that I've explained how to do it with every newsreader on the planet, and Ian does have an out in that nobody has taken either of us up on our offer...but we can hardly be blamed for that. Can we? Will we be? (Oh, I guess we already have been.) -- pz ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw Lines: 17 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:00:45 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.112.27 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1015729245 206.146.112.27 (Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:00:45 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 21:00:45 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82533 In article , Sherilyn wrote: [snip] > The anti-skeptic bandwagon seemed to be really rolling for a while > there [snip] Yes, it does seem as if this group has to go through periodic phases in which skeptics are demonized, and this is one of those times. The woo-woos could at least be consistent and demonize us always. -- pz ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 37 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:44:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015731845 80.1.123.25 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:44:05 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 03:44:05 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!194.6.79.69.MISMATCH!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82462 In message-id , Janice wrote: >In article , >sherilyn@suespammers.org says... >> In message-id , >> Janice wrote: > >> >I don't think of my participation here as research project or anything-- >> >I'm here for the comraderie and the exchange of ideas, tips and >> >experiences, just like most people--it's just that the particular >> >training I had informs the way I approach what I'm doing. >> >> Um, no. You once explicitly stated that you were here to study the >> flora and fauna of our planet, and did we have change for a >> Tralfamadorean Ningi. > >Was this before or after I sampled that Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster? > I tried to find out where I got that impression, and the posting that sprung out as the likely source was this one: <38B8D0AE.6A8@not-here.net> You didn't say what I remembered you saying (no surprise there, this was over two years ago and memory plays tricks). We were discussing what I tend to characterise as the continual caterwauling that skeptics tend to encounter on groups where people with a more blinkered outlook expect their statements to go unchallenged, and for which you undoubetdly have a far more charitable description. The phrase you used was: "the clashes are themselves fascinating since I take an interest in social dynamics." From that conversation and ones since I seem to have gleaned the impression that you're more than a bit interested in the social-to-and-fro here. -- Sherilyn ###### Lines: 15 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 10 Mar 2002 04:02:21 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-mg) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020309230221.18777.00000060@mb-mg.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82506 In article , "Lorz" writes: >: And you, young lady, deserve a spanking for not snipping at least some of >: the 140 lines to which you merely added applause! ;-) > >Crap. Sorry, your Majesty. > shouldn't that be -- "Your sorry Majesty's crap" ? To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 48 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 05:41:51 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015738911 80.1.123.25 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 05:41:51 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 05:41:51 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82476 In message-id <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com>, Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: [...] >I wrote a long reply to Neil for his excellent and courteous post. As >emailing computer geniuses rarely seems to work, (so well defended >from attack!) This is wrong in my experience. A good programmer uses his competence to ensure that when you email him, he receives the message, whilst his well programmed mail server rejects all spam. I don't claim to be a computer genius, but I would feel a bit silly if I thought that I could not even arrange to receive email addressed to me. Just click reply and your email will reach me. I'm sure Neil is the same. He'd be horrified, I'm sure, if you suggested that he wasn't mailable. [...] > >I really would love to post what I do in alt-oob, as I used to for the >last seven years or so. But these sceptics (do they do anything else >but post here, like work?) are unfailingly critical of everything I >try to say. Well, yes, since most of what you try to say here is ripe for criticism, it will be critiqued. That's how USENET is supposed to work, n'est-ce pas? [...] >I am deeply >hurt that not one of the people I have visited in astonishing and >unfailingly correct detail is willing to discuss this in the group >since these sceptics arrived. There have always been skeptics posting on alt.out-of-body. Check on google. It was formed by people who included skeptics in their number--that you insist on behaving as if it was supposed to be a place solely for the discussion of your own particular beliefs or fantasies is puzzling, to say the least. [...] > >But acute sensitivity to attack goes with the territory of a healer. Oh dearie me. And your claims don't last long when exposed to the light of day. [...] -- Sherilyn ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 40 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 07:50:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.243 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1015746630 208.26.165.243 (Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:50:30 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 09 Mar 2002 23:50:30 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!priapus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!verio!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82592 "Sherilyn" wrote in message news:a6eg8l0sg8@drn.newsguy.com... > In message-id , "dorothy" wrote: > > > >"Ian H Spedding" wrote in message > >news:MPG.16f3fc9933c4af26989751@news.freeserve.com... > [...] > >> > >> More like they enjoy a good intellectual joust, sharpening their wits > >> in the cut-and-thrust of debate. It's a skill that some believers > >> would benefit from developing. > > > >Look where that got me. Sherilyn's evidently plonked me, because I engaged > >her in just such a way. Now, evidently, I'm one of the big bad a******* in > >the NG. It's a shame, because I genuinely like Sherilyn. > > > As far as I could tell, you only seemed to be interested in discussing > your own imputation to me of dishonest motives. Sorry if that was a > misinterpretation on my part, but I don't generally see any point in > continuing a discussion in such circumstances. The anti-skeptic > bandwagon seemed to be really rolling for a while there, and although I > know you're not one of the skeptic-chasers there was a point at which > every posting I opened was either an attack on a skeptic or a skeptic > (sometimes me!) responding to an attack. This isn't good for the newsgroup > in the long run and so I disengaged from a number of subthreads and > played with Janice and Lorz and PZ for a bit (which is what I mostly do > in any case). Actually, I was trying hard not to impute dishonest motives, but if you don't wanna go there, that's fine. I'm sure you're sensitive to any suggestion of that, since it's a typical troll tactic that you've already seen plenty of. I'm not exactly a 'typical troll' though, so I thought you gave up on me rather too soon. Not that I really want to take up where we left off.... I was ready to drop it too. ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <3c8b3cc8.5503037@news.ntlworld.com> References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <3c88b2f1.2940248@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 12 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:30:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.90.241 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015759991 62.253.90.241 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:33:11 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:33:11 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!lon1-news.nildram.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82523 On 9 Mar 2002 18:18:22 -0800, izaak@whoever.com (Isaac) wrote: >Hi Julia! > >I'm glad to see that you are still here too. I haven't rooted around >enough to get a feel for the nature of your engagement with Sherilyn, >but I hope you hang in here. Hi, Isaac! I'm trying to hang on by my astral fingernails, but the bad wind from the septic tank is blowing very hard at me! Others are helping me by offering their hands, however, so I may make it through! Love from Julia ###### Lines: 18 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 10 Mar 2002 13:31:06 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-mh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020310083106.18191.00000115@mb-mh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!portc-m01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82493 In article , Ian H Spedding writes: >The world has to be dealt with as it is, not the way we would like it >to be. If water is polluted then then the immediate solution is to >filter it rather than complain about the pollution Ian, that's got to be the first thing you've posted that I have vehemently disagreed with. even tho this is a flame-thread, I'll hold my tongue. For now... To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 23 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 10 Mar 2002 13:31:28 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-mh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020310083128.18191.00000116@mb-mh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!portc-m01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82503 In article , pz writes: >> > her. Why use a water purifier since the water should NOT be polluted to >> > begin >> > with? address the problem (kill the skeptics) rather than the bandaid >> > (using a >> > filter). >> >> >> So much for Matthew 5:43-48. > >I presume from the context that Mr. Silk is not using "kill" in the >sense of a killfile. Why am I not surprised? > sorry, I didn't mean it literally, but it was a nice visual flame zone -- let's raise some HELL! :) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 37 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 10 Mar 2002 13:31:43 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-mh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020310083143.18191.00000117@mb-mh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.nntpserver.com!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator-la!news-in-la.newsfeeds.com!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!portc-m01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82498 just a comment on why I started the (post flames here) thread: back in the days of BBS, we had a special "forum" for insults. The rule of thumb was this: All other threads were moderated to the extent that posters were NOT rude to each other. Being the sysop, I could either delete a post on sight, OR move it to the flame zone. In usenet, we don't have that exact ability, but we CAN use a little personal discretion and re-title a thread with "flame zone" or "Insults here" or such, so as to leave the original threads cleaner, for genuine discussion. There was only one rule in the flame zone: you could say ANYTHING without fear of repercussion. You could summon satan and all the hounds of hell for all anyone cares... as long as it stays in a flame zone, it's cool :) this protocol really DOES help keep other threads more friendly and MUCH more pleasant to read thru. In article , "dorothy" writes: >> > Of course, perhaps PZ and Sherily are not out to educate/persuade. >> > Perhaps they just are the most long-winded trolls in existance. Out to >> > sadistically enjoy daily kicking others in the butt. >> >> More like they enjoy a good intellectual joust, sharpening their wits >> in the cut-and-thrust of debate. It's a skill that some believers >> would benefit from developing. > >Look where that got me. Sherilyn's evidently plonked me, because I engaged >her in just such a way. Now, evidently, I'm one of the big bad a******* in >the NG. It's a shame, because I genuinely like Sherilyn. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 09:06:13 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <20020310083128.18191.00000116@mb-mh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-312.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82566 In article <20020310083128.18191.00000116@mb-mh.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > flame zone -- let's raise some HELL! :) Let's not. Since in part this flame fest arose because of people sympathizing with Julia's not feeling comfortable posting, now that she's dealing with that issue appropriately and wishes to clear the air, I think we can try to respect that wish. -- If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great disappointments.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 10 Mar 2002 06:26:52 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-219.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.91 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!HSNX.atgi.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82482 In message-id , "dorothy" wrote: > [...] > >Actually, I was trying hard not to impute dishonest motives, but if you >don't wanna go there, that's fine. I'm sure you're sensitive to any >suggestion of that, since it's a typical troll tactic that you've already >seen plenty of. I'm not exactly a 'typical troll' though, so I thought you >gave up on me rather too soon. Not that I really want to take up where we >left off.... I was ready to drop it too. I think you hit the nail on the head. I've become accustomed to avoiding responding to certain kinds of posting--but I'm not infallible and sometimes I'll hit a false positive. -- Sherilyn ###### From: "Lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 27 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:03:16 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:03:54 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!hub1.nntpserver.com!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!newsfeeds-atl2!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82655 pz wrote in message news:pzm-6E44A3.21010209032002@news.onvoy.com... : In article , : Sherilyn wrote: : : [snip] : : > The anti-skeptic bandwagon seemed to be really rolling for a while : > there : : [snip] : : Yes, it does seem as if this group has to go through periodic phases in : which skeptics are demonized, and this is one of those times. : : The woo-woos could at least be consistent and demonize us always. : : Demonize is rather harsh. I think it's just a matter of hurt feelings most of the time. To which you'll reply "woo-woo's are oversensitive" which you may be right about. But knowing this, why taunt? ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw Lines: 34 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:19:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.112.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1015780765 206.146.112.30 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:19:25 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:19:25 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82542 In article , "Lorz" wrote: > pz wrote in message > news:pzm-6E44A3.21010209032002@news.onvoy.com... > : In article , > : Sherilyn wrote: > : > : [snip] > : > : > The anti-skeptic bandwagon seemed to be really rolling for a while > : > there > : > : [snip] > : > : Yes, it does seem as if this group has to go through periodic phases in > : which skeptics are demonized, and this is one of those times. > : > : The woo-woos could at least be consistent and demonize us always. > : > : > > Demonize is rather harsh. Not at all. It's accurate: read what Julia or this Williams fellow says. > I think it's just a matter of hurt feelings most > of the time. To which you'll reply "woo-woo's are oversensitive" which you > may be right about. But knowing this, why taunt? Who's taunting? I just tells it like I sees it. -- pz ###### Message-ID: <3C8B9601.FA0E1ADC@cogeco.ca> From: Tien Yen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <2002030823420275767@zetnet.co.uk> <20020309163108.02786.00000145@mb-mu.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 30 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:21:05 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.150.231.178 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cogeco.ca X-Trace: read2.cgocable.net 1015781019 24.150.231.178 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:23:39 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:23:39 EST Organization: Cogeco Cable Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!193.154.160.102.MISMATCH!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newsfeed.kpnqwest.at!news-hub.siol.net!feed.cgocable.net!read2.cgocable.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82657 Janice wrote: > > In article , pzm@mac.com > says... > > In article , > > Janice wrote: > > > > > In article <20020309163108.02786.00000145@mb-mu.aol.com>, > > > silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > > > > > I think the very fact that she would *need* to use a filter is what bothers > > > > her. Why use a water purifier since the water should NOT be polluted to > > > > begin > > > > with? address the problem (kill the skeptics) rather than the bandaid > > > > (using a > > > > filter). > > > > > > > > > So much for Matthew 5:43-48. > > > > I presume from the context that Mr. Silk is not using "kill" in the > > sense of a killfile. Why am I not surprised? > > Aux armes citoyens! > Formez vos bataillons, > Marchons, marchons! > Qu'un sang impur > Abreuve nos sillons. To Arms? Bloody Hell; not another bleedin' crusade, I hope ;> ###### Message-ID: <3C8B97F3.3918A88C@cogeco.ca> From: Tien Yen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:29:23 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.150.231.178 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cogeco.ca X-Trace: read2.cgocable.net 1015781517 24.150.231.178 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:31:57 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 12:31:57 EST Organization: Cogeco Cable Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.cgocable.net!read2.cgocable.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82656 dorothy wrote: > > "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message > news:MPG.16f3fc9933c4af26989751@news.freeserve.com... > > In article <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, > > neil@franklin.ch.remove says... > > > > Of course, perhaps PZ and Sherily are not out to educate/persuade. > > > Perhaps they just are the most long-winded trolls in existance. Out to > > > sadistically enjoy daily kicking others in the butt. > > > > More like they enjoy a good intellectual joust, sharpening their wits > > in the cut-and-thrust of debate. It's a skill that some believers > > would benefit from developing. > > Look where that got me. Sherilyn's evidently plonked me, because I engaged > her in just such a way. Now, evidently, I'm one of the big bad a******* in > the NG. It's a shame, because I genuinely like Sherilyn. I, for one, have never thought of you as a big, bad a*******. TY ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 22 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:35:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.105 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1015788941 208.26.165.105 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:35:41 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:35:41 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-hub.siol.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82590 "Sherilyn" wrote in message news:a6fqfc07bv@drn.newsguy.com... > In message-id , "dorothy" wrote: > > > [...] > > > >Actually, I was trying hard not to impute dishonest motives, but if you > >don't wanna go there, that's fine. I'm sure you're sensitive to any > >suggestion of that, since it's a typical troll tactic that you've already > >seen plenty of. I'm not exactly a 'typical troll' though, so I thought you > >gave up on me rather too soon. Not that I really want to take up where we > >left off.... I was ready to drop it too. > > I think you hit the nail on the head. I've become accustomed to avoiding > responding to certain kinds of posting--but I'm not infallible and > sometimes I'll hit a false positive. ditto. :-) ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3C8B97F3.3918A88C@cogeco.ca> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 29 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:37:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.105 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1015789028 208.26.165.105 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:37:08 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 11:37:08 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82574 "Tien Yen" wrote in message news:3C8B97F3.3918A88C@cogeco.ca... > dorothy wrote: > > > > "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message > > news:MPG.16f3fc9933c4af26989751@news.freeserve.com... > > > In article <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, > > > neil@franklin.ch.remove says... > > > > > > Of course, perhaps PZ and Sherily are not out to educate/persuade. > > > > Perhaps they just are the most long-winded trolls in existance. Out to > > > > sadistically enjoy daily kicking others in the butt. > > > > > > More like they enjoy a good intellectual joust, sharpening their wits > > > in the cut-and-thrust of debate. It's a skill that some believers > > > would benefit from developing. > > > > Look where that got me. Sherilyn's evidently plonked me, because I engaged > > her in just such a way. Now, evidently, I'm one of the big bad a******* in > > the NG. It's a shame, because I genuinely like Sherilyn. > > I, for one, have never thought of you as a big, bad a*******. Thanks, Tien, I needed that. :-) ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 10 Mar 2002 23:38:23 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 253 Message-ID: <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1015799903 586 10.0.3.2 (10 Mar 2002 22:38:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Mar 2002 22:38:23 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82658 pz writes: > In article <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, > Neil Franklin wrote: > > > pz writes: > > > > > The funny thing is that the skeptics are in exactly the same position: > > > day after day, we see woo-woos posting the most outrageous bilge, stuff > > > > But, you will notice, repeated targeted personal attacks on your > > person are not in that list. > > Sure it is. Would you demonstrate where in the list it was? To help you, here a copy of the full list: -------------- The funny thing is that the skeptics are in exactly the same position: day after day, we see woo-woos posting the most outrageous bilge, stuff that contradicts our worldview and is just as obnoxious to us as common sense, materialism, and the scientific method are to you. Yet you don't see us squalling that people must be shut down, that you are 'grinding on our nerves', or that only One Way of Thinking is allowed. -------------- Would you please point out where _in_that_list_ of yours there is "repeated targeted personal attacks on you" or anything comparable? > What do you call this post of yours? Since when is my post part of the above list? Note that I wrote: "But, you will notice, .... in that list" ^^^^^^^^^^^^ You have just demonstrated that you can not even read an text. > The most routinely > reviled people on this newsgroup are Garrison Hilliard, Sherilyn, and > me. They are also those people who have done everything possible to make themselves disliked. Reap what you sow. Want to be less reviled? Then stop attacking people. I am presently on 7 newsgroups, I have been on about 30 over the last 4.5 years. This is the _only_ one where there exists the sort of problems you and them have. Everywhere else posters seem to have enough civil behaviour to not result in ongoing flaming for 2.5 years. This flaming centers around you. Time to get an clue. > I'm not concerned about it, but you sure are...but only when people > with ideas you favor are subjected to it. I am concerned when people are getting attacked unjustly, and their contributions going lost. You have earned yourself whatever attacks you are getting. So why should I care about you? > They're fair game. You _are_ fair game. You have put yourself in that position by alienating large amounts of people here. You will notice that Janice and Ian are not treated the way you are. They are sceptics. But they are also civil people. So they get respect. > > > that contradicts our worldview and is just as obnoxious to us as common > > > > So much to your professed "tolerance". It is against your worldview, > > so it has got to go. > > This is reprehensible and dishonest. Calling you on your professed tolerance, after you showing that you are intolerant. That is not reprehensible and dishonest, that is normal debating. Make errors and suffer them. If you dont want to be called on contradictions. Dont make them. > I have said that it is obnoxious. I have not said that I am unable to > tolerate it; You have repeatedly called yourself tolerant (note the difference of "tolerance for someone elses views" and "tolerate something against you", it is basic linguistics). In above you were clearly intolerant. That is what you were called on. > > If you are too weak to stand the "bilge" may I suggest something: > > killfile the woowoos. _You_ surely know how to, after all you allways > > recommend it to others. > > I have no problem standing against the bilge. Apart from this problem: ------- Oooh. Don't you just hate that? Seeing opinions expressed that you disagree with...how DARE some people inflict that on you! day after day, we see woo-woos posting the most outrageous bilge, stuff that contradicts our worldview and is just as obnoxious to us as common sense, materialism, and the scientific method are to you. Yet you don't -------- Saying that the bilge is "obnoxious", and _giving_that_as_reason_ for your attacking the woowoos, certainly looks like you have a problem with it. If you had no problem with it, you would not be attacking. And not naming the bilge as "defense" for the attacks. > That's my point, silly > man: the skeptics are not telling anyone to leave. The skeptics (at least you) are not _telling_, they are bulling instead. > You are. I am _asking_ you to behave like an decent person. Or leave if you are incapable of that. Seems to be that you regard even that as asking too much. I am not surprised. It just confirms that you are the worst person behaviourwise, that I have ever met. Complete lack of even basic social competence. That is not a compliment. > > Repeated debunked claim. > > How? I can't stop anyone from writing and posting whatever they want. Are you really so clueless about human behaviour? You can definitely stop someone: make posting an negative experience and they will stop. (Unless they are masochistic.) BTW: Above is the base of all surpression, simply make some behaviour more painfull than desirable, and people stop. Extreme case where painfull = kill (bodily). > You can't stop me. pz, you are not equal other person. Do not extrapolate from the behaviour of one thick skinned person to that of others. If you want to know what others do, observe _them_. Nice demonstration of your self-centered world there. > > I assume you will have a strong dislike for these PETA people. That is > > the type of dislike I have for you. Same bullying behaviour. Same > > reaction in the reciever. > > Wrong, wrong, wrong. If people like that confined themselves to writing, > making arguments, publishing ideas, then it would be fine and your > analogy would be appropriate. You can find no analogous behavior > here. Try comparing destroying lab -> end of lab research, to destroying usenet sociology -> end of sociology research. The "destroy -> end" bit is identical. Makes an valid analogy. > I > haven't physically destroyed anything. Yet more cluelessness: one does not have to destroy an THING to be destructive. One can also destroy social structures (= non-things). > I haven't prevented anyone from > doing what they will. Driven them away from posting, which prevents them from being here, and so from doing what they will. Q.E.D. > > Pot calling kettle back. Try to surpress others by bullying them and > > then complain about "surpressing" when people only _ask_ you to behave. > You have been making this incredibly stupid claim that I'm a bully who > wants to exterminate other people's opinions Long running (2.5 years) campaign, consisting of regular jumping at people as soon as they say something that violates your belief system. Public admission that you jump for that reason. Your behaviour is indistinguishable from an bully. > -- and somehow I'm doing > this by expressing my opinions. Yet even more cluelessness. One can voice an opinion in an civil way (see Janice and Ian). One can also voice it as an attack on others. You have being doing the later, repeatedly. > But what does that make you? You're > expressing your opinions. You're attempting to "bully" me into leaving > this newsgroup. I am _asking_ you to behave like over 1000 other usenetters do: civilly. > Because you aren't very bright, Understanding others does not constitute "not very bright". > You've just compared me to people who destroy other peoples life work, Which is fitting. You do destroy others society and work here. > who extort a desired behavior from others. Which you also do. > You're just going to have to learn to live with the fact that I have my > opinion, and I express it. Translation: "fuck anyone who dislikes me". Well fitting with the foul character you demonstrate here. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 11 Mar 2002 00:15:56 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 107 Message-ID: <6ubsdwvwsz.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1015802157 603 10.0.3.2 (10 Mar 2002 23:15:57 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Mar 2002 23:15:57 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82659 sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) writes: > In message-id <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com>, > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > [...] > >I wrote a long reply to Neil for his excellent and courteous post. As > >emailing computer geniuses rarely seems to work, (so well defended > >from attack!) > > This is wrong in my experience. A good programmer uses his competence > to ensure that when you email him, he receives the message, whilst his > well programmed mail server rejects all spam. Mine does not even have spam filters. I prefer to get the spam and then report the spammers to their ISPs. Teaches them and so stops them. Most are just clueless about Internet behaviour. Of yourse there are also professional spammers who do not care. But they are quickly deleted. Dito also viruses (my computer is 100% resistant to them) and similar crap. Even a record crop of 5 Nimdas in one day (1MByte) does not hurt on an cable modem. If everyone simply auto-deletes we will soon have the net flooded with spam being auto-1'000'000-copied into black holes. > computer genius, but I would feel a bit silly if I thought that I could > not even arrange to receive email addressed to me. Just click reply and > your email will reach me. Dito here. > I'm sure Neil is the same. Actually my mailbox is on an university mailserver with 1800 mail accounts, including all professors and the deam of the department. I am the admin of that server. Any server or net trouble and my telephone gets serious work. So I make sure it works. Ususally it is net trouble, so outside my powers :-(. That is the advantage of an nice server that in 2.5 years has only failled 2 times, once missconfiguration by the admin before me (he ignored 4 mails that the DNS servers will get new IP addresses) and once an OS bug (vendor did an full analysis of the crash and then delivered an fix). I do like $50'000 servers :-). OT, for the techno interested: SGI Origin 200, 4 times R12000 270MHz processor, 1GByte RAM, 210GByte Raid0+1 disk array, 2 Gbit Ethernet glass fibers. > He'd be horrified, I'm sure, if you suggested > that he wasn't mailable. Not horrified. Just regard it as sign that she has made some bad experiences. Hope I can convince her, that not all are so bad :-). As an admin I get to regularly see the most astonnishing things users can do. And I do know a few over-zealous spam-filterers who have managed to bounce mails from me. Usually some RBL style system that has fucked up and falsely declared my entire cable-ISP to be spamfriendly (which they are not). > >I really would love to post what I do in alt-oob, as I used to for the > >last seven years or so. But these sceptics (do they do anything else > >but post here, like work?) are unfailingly critical of everything I > >try to say. > > Well, yes, since most of what you try to say here is ripe for criticism, > it will be critiqued. That's how USENET is supposed to work, n'est-ce > pas? Actually Usenet is supposed to be an exchange of viewpoints. There exist an limit after which criticism ceases to be usefull, when it stops viewpoints from being shown. > There have always been skeptics posting on alt.out-of-body. Check on > google. It was formed by people who included skeptics in their > number-- But those were more Janice and Ian type ones, not pz type. > that you insist on behaving as if it was supposed to be a place > solely for the discussion of your own particular beliefs or fantasies is > puzzling, to say the least. I am not aware of Julia ever forbidding others an discussion of OOBE from their standpoint. She simply ignored them threads (or at least does not post in them). Only a dislike for people who systematically attack her every time she posts. Now if they could learn similar ignoring (or at least non-posting), then all would be OK. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### Lines: 16 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 10 Mar 2002 21:30:54 GMT References: <3C8B0FD7.C1F7D10C@edenroad.demon.co.uk> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-mh) Subject: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020310163054.18191.00000155@mb-mh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!portc-m01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82723 In article <3C8B0FD7.C1F7D10C@edenroad.demon.co.uk>, David Mitchell writes: >Static charges are not the same as magnetic fields, so they're >irrelevant to this discussion anyway; but even so, I still stand by my >statement that they do not always cause permanent damage. A transient >glitch perhaps (of course, the PC has to be on for this to happen, and >only an idiot would vacuum inside a working PC, so we can discount that, >can't we?). > if you think you can fool someone into zapping their system by claiming it won't harm their system, you're a bigger fool than you appear to be. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <3c88b2f1.2940248@news.ntlworld.com> <2002030816143675767@zetnet.co.uk> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 51 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:44:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.11.38.210 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1015796683 63.11.38.210 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:44:43 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:44:43 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-ber1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82764 J L Williams wrote in message news:2002030816143675767@zetnet.co.uk... > The message <3c88b2f1.2940248@news.ntlworld.com> > from julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) contains > these words: > > > On 07 Mar 2002 18:11:21 GMT, silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) > > wrote: > > > >>Consequently, any purported evidence that Julia and company will present > > >>must be presented only to people whom she believes to be gullible enough > > >>to fall for it or diplomatic enough not to question too closely. > > > >no, it means she and janice and trish et al are sick and tired of your sceptic > > >crap bullshit and really wish to have a *cleaner* environment in which to > > >express ideas freely without people throwing "shite" at them. > > > Well, I wouldn't have put it quite that way myself, but I am just as > > weary of Sherilyn's gratuitious insults and attacks on me as I ever > > was before. Somebody please email me when he has gone and perhaps we > > can get back to talking about out-of-body experiences here. > > Just click the sh** switch Julia and all is gone, 'Pooooooffffffffffff' ! > After that change your habits to check the author as new id's abound. > Don't ever read anything they say. > If by accident you do (well most used to be one liners) NEVER EVER REPLY. > > New author? Plonk! > > If your 'plonker' :) wont do that individually just press NEXT. Same > effect :) It really really REALLY works. > Cheers > Jim > PS And I respect you :) Yes, Julia. Just use your killfile. It has worked well for me, and I'm very pleased that I see no responses. -- Trish ................. Perspective - Use it or Lose it. ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 29 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:47:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.11.38.210 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc02.gnilink.net 1015796850 63.11.38.210 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:47:30 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:47:30 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc02.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82774 pz wrote in message news:pzm-007E7D.17001108032002@laurel.tc.umn.edu... > In article <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, > "lorz" wrote: > > > "Neil Franklin" wrote in message > > news:6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch... > > [snip whiny tripe] > > > > Hear, Hear, Well said! This man deserves a title! > > OK. How 'bout "idiot"? > > -- > pz Jeez PZ, that was stupid. You just proved his point. -- Trish ................. Perspective - Use it or Lose it. ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 130 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 21:57:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.11.38.210 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc02.gnilink.net 1015797428 63.11.38.210 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:57:08 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:57:08 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc02.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82759 pz wrote in message news:pzm-0C7A22.17320408032002@laurel.tc.umn.edu... > In article <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com>, > julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote: > > > On 08 Mar 2002 23:03:48 +0100, Neil Franklin > > wrote: > > >The problem is not "expressing scepticism". It is an pattern of > > >repeated deliberate attacks, grinding down their targets nerves. > > snip > > > > >Of course reading others saying stuff one self regards as bunk and > > >leaving them to go on doing so, instead of "correcting" them, takes > > >stamina. It also takes an understanding that the world is not in an > > >dire need of saving. And that one has not got an moral duty to do so. > > >That is something missionaries seem to miss. The rest of the world > > >hates them for this. > > > > I wrote a long reply to Neil for his excellent and courteous post. As > > emailing computer geniuses rarely seems to work, (so well defended > > from attack!) I decided to post my letter here. Many thanks to Neil > > and to the other people who sent me considered and supportive > > comments. Anyway: > > > > I really would love to post what I do in alt-oob, as I used to for the > > last seven years or so. But these sceptics (do they do anything else > > but post here, like work?) are unfailingly critical of everything I > > try to say. > > Yes, we are. You are a self-deluded charlatan. > > So? > > > > > This group was supportive enough before their arrival to manifest a > > whole 'body of evidence' which has been enough to convince me that my > > oobe work really does work. From that strength of conviction I draw > > the energy to repeatedly achieve the 'impossible'. I visit people, > > describe their homes, and heal them. > > No, you don't. You CLAIM to heal them. You may even BELIEVE that you > heal them. But you don't. > > > I have even literally 'saved the > > life ' of one infrequent poster for which I am grateful. I am deeply > > hurt that not one of the people I have visited in astonishing and > > unfailingly correct detail > > Isn't it funny how the "astonishing and unfailingly correct detail" > never seems to manifest when unbelievers are around? > > > is willing to discuss this in the group > > since these sceptics arrived. > > Instead they call me a liar amongst many other names. > > > > Fortunately, the skills I honed in the past in alt.oob are of real > > value to me and others now. In my healing work, > > "Work" isn't the right word. "Chicanery", maybe? > > > I take people deep > > into their pasts, in a safe and supportive way. In every healing, my > > guides show me a significant artefact in such exact detail that the > > person can only accept that I was there with them, and feel safe and > > 'rescued' as a consequence.These are people who have gone through > > years of counselling by professionals and yet never made the > > 'breakthrough', because of their intense and valid fear. I do that for > > them. It changes their lives. For many people the oobe techniques I > > have learned literally do solve all their problems. That is a genuine > > blessing. Oh - and for the cynics - I never charge for healing. > > > > I am not proud of all this but I do feel that if I can learn to do it, > > so can others. It seems to offer real solutions for the deep crises > > human beings suffer. > > No. It's an illusory panacea. It's hokum that detracts from real and > substantial efforts to help. > > > Using some of these oobe skills and aspects, > > profesional people across the world are now beginning to train in very > > practical techniques for undoing the damage of childhood sexual abuse > > and rape, for which no other 'cure' has previously been found. > > > > But acute sensitivity to attack goes with the territory of a healer. > > This is especially true if that attack is persistent and sustained. It > > is no use for others to tell me not to be so sensitive, to ignore > > attacks. I have no idea what this 'killfile' process is - I see no > > buttons for it on my screen! Neither, really, do I want to learn. It > > would hardly work, as other people include snips of the attackers' > > text anyway. > > And oh, those snips are so painful to someone as sensitive as you! > > Baloney. > > You're a vampire: you dissolve in the light of day. That's all there is > to it. > > > > > It is indeed sad that such an infinitely valuable human resource as > > the ability to go oobe > > If you could, it would be wonderful. You can't. > > > is being continuously derided and belittled in > > alt.oob. There does not seem to be anywhere else it could be so easily > > learned and freely shared. > > -- > pz I'm no longer so sure of that PZ. Once I became a witch, my life started falling into place. After 12 years of marriage, I'm finally divorcing my unwanted husband. I even conjured up a female that was more to his pleasing, just so he would leave me alone. And she materialized in his life. Now, I'm losing a job that I've held for 9 years (the last 4 being pure hell sometimes) and I'm moving on to something far less stressfull. All in all ... after 12 years of nothing. I finally started doing. You can consider it the placebo effect. But that's fine. If it works, it works. -- Trish ................. Perspective - Use it or Lose it. ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw Lines: 39 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:01:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.112.35 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1015797701 206.146.112.35 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:01:41 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:01:41 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82737 In article , "The Countess" wrote: > pz wrote in message > news:pzm-007E7D.17001108032002@laurel.tc.umn.edu... > > In article <9Aai8.24258$Yd.1016698@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, > > "lorz" wrote: > > > > > "Neil Franklin" wrote in message > > > news:6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch... > > > > [snip whiny tripe] > > > > > > > Hear, Hear, Well said! This man deserves a title! > > > > OK. How 'bout "idiot"? > > > > -- > > pz > > Jeez PZ, that was stupid. You...you..just called me "stupid"! How could you? Now my feelings are hurt. You do realize that according to Franklin, you've just made a "deliberate attack", and you must "sadistically enjoy...kicking others in the butt". Are you just like those missionaries who feel they have a moral duty to impose their beliefs on others? > You just proved his point. If his point was that I like to cut to the chase and say what I think without a lot of weasel words, yes. His little tirade was idiotic. You must think so too, or you wouldn't have made these comments. -- pz ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw Lines: 22 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:05:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.112.35 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1015797910 206.146.112.35 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:05:10 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:05:10 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!news0.de.colt.net!peernews2.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82744 In article , "The Countess" wrote: [snip] > I'm no longer so sure of that PZ. Once I became a witch, my life started > falling into place. After 12 years of marriage, I'm finally divorcing my > unwanted husband. I even conjured up a female that was more to his > pleasing, just so he would leave me alone. And she materialized in his > life. Now, I'm losing a job that I've held for 9 years (the last 4 being > pure hell sometimes) and I'm moving on to something far less stressfull. > > All in all ... after 12 years of nothing. I finally started doing. You can > consider it the placebo effect. But that's fine. If it works, it works. Oh, dear. Your assumptions of cause and effect are seriously awry. It's good that a change in philosophy may have motivated some changes in your life, but it's unfortunate that you are ascribing it to a silly set of superstitions. -- pz ###### Message-ID: <3C8BDAB2.E92E25C9@cogeco.ca> From: Tien Yen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 35 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:14:10 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.150.231.178 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cogeco.ca X-Trace: read2.cgocable.net 1015798606 24.150.231.178 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:16:46 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 17:16:46 EST Organization: Cogeco Cable Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!itgate.net!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.cgocable.net!read2.cgocable.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82660 pz wrote: > > In article , > "Lorz" wrote: > > > pz wrote in message > > news:pzm-6E44A3.21010209032002@news.onvoy.com... > > : In article , > > : Sherilyn wrote: > > : > > : [snip] > > : > > : > The anti-skeptic bandwagon seemed to be really rolling for a while > > : > there > > : > > : [snip] > > : > > : Yes, it does seem as if this group has to go through periodic phases in > > : which skeptics are demonized, and this is one of those times. > > : > > : The woo-woos could at least be consistent and demonize us always. > > : > > : > > > > Demonize is rather harsh. > > Not at all. It's accurate: read what Julia or this Williams fellow says. > > > I think it's just a matter of hurt feelings most > > of the time. To which you'll reply "woo-woo's are oversensitive" which you > > may be right about. But knowing this, why taunt? > > Who's taunting? I just tells it like I sees it. And if you don't sees it, ya makes it up ;> ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3C8BDAB2.E92E25C9@cogeco.ca> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw Lines: 46 Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 22:19:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.112.35 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1015798745 206.146.112.35 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:19:05 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:19:05 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82738 In article <3C8BDAB2.E92E25C9@cogeco.ca>, Tien Yen wrote: > pz wrote: > > > > In article , > > "Lorz" wrote: > > > > > pz wrote in message > > > news:pzm-6E44A3.21010209032002@news.onvoy.com... > > > : In article , > > > : Sherilyn wrote: > > > : > > > : [snip] > > > : > > > : > The anti-skeptic bandwagon seemed to be really rolling for a while > > > : > there > > > : > > > : [snip] > > > : > > > : Yes, it does seem as if this group has to go through periodic phases in > > > : which skeptics are demonized, and this is one of those times. > > > : > > > : The woo-woos could at least be consistent and demonize us always. > > > : > > > : > > > > > > Demonize is rather harsh. > > > > Not at all. It's accurate: read what Julia or this Williams fellow says. > > > > > I think it's just a matter of hurt feelings most > > > of the time. To which you'll reply "woo-woo's are oversensitive" which you > > > may be right about. But knowing this, why taunt? > > > > Who's taunting? I just tells it like I sees it. > > And if you don't sees it, ya makes it up ;> Oh, come now. You know there has always been a subset of the woo-woo population here that regards skeptics as sneaky bad guys who are only here to bury the 'truth' and torment the 'enlightened'. If you think otherwise, you're blind. -- pz ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 26 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:15:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015805755 80.1.123.25 (Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:15:55 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:15:55 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news-x2.support.nl!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82681 In message-id , dorothy wrote: >"Sherilyn" wrote in message >news:a6fqfc07bv@drn.newsguy.com... >> In message-id , "dorothy" >wrote: >> > >> [...] >> > >> >Actually, I was trying hard not to impute dishonest motives, but if you >> >don't wanna go there, that's fine. I'm sure you're sensitive to any >> >suggestion of that, since it's a typical troll tactic that you've already >> >seen plenty of. I'm not exactly a 'typical troll' though, so I thought >you >> >gave up on me rather too soon. Not that I really want to take up where we >> >left off.... I was ready to drop it too. >> >> I think you hit the nail on the head. I've become accustomed to avoiding >> responding to certain kinds of posting--but I'm not infallible and >> sometimes I'll hit a false positive. > >ditto. :-) > Does that mean we're still friends? -- Sherilyn ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 34 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:39:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.229 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1015807140 208.26.165.229 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:39:00 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 16:39:00 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82784 "Sherilyn" wrote in message news:slrna8ntpr.3dk.sherilyn@happy.sherilyn.org.uk... > In message-id , > dorothy wrote: > >"Sherilyn" wrote in message > >news:a6fqfc07bv@drn.newsguy.com... > >> In message-id , "dorothy" > >wrote: > >> > > >> [...] > >> > > >> >Actually, I was trying hard not to impute dishonest motives, but if you > >> >don't wanna go there, that's fine. I'm sure you're sensitive to any > >> >suggestion of that, since it's a typical troll tactic that you've already > >> >seen plenty of. I'm not exactly a 'typical troll' though, so I thought > >you > >> >gave up on me rather too soon. Not that I really want to take up where we > >> >left off.... I was ready to drop it too. > >> > >> I think you hit the nail on the head. I've become accustomed to avoiding > >> responding to certain kinds of posting--but I'm not infallible and > >> sometimes I'll hit a false positive. > > > >ditto. :-) > > > Does that mean we're still friends? I hope so. ###### Lines: 11 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 11 Mar 2002 01:41:30 GMT References: <3C8B97F3.3918A88C@cogeco.ca> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-mm) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020310204130.20502.00000076@mb-mm.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.cis.ohio-state.edu!news.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!portc-m01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82697 I think it was Ian who wrote: >> Look where that got me. Sherilyn's evidently plonked me, because I engaged >> her in just such a way. Sherilyn isn't a "her", he's a "him." To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 21 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 11 Mar 2002 01:41:30 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-mm) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020310204130.20502.00000077@mb-mm.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!portc-m01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82699 In article , Janice writes: >silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > >> flame zone -- let's raise some HELL! :) > >Let's not. Since in part this flame fest arose because of people >sympathizing with Julia's not feeling comfortable posting, now that she's >dealing with that issue appropriately and wishes to clear the air, I >think we can try to respect that wish. > UNbelieveable! I went to the trouble of creating a flame thread so that flames could be thrown willy nilly within a contained area (like a wizard's pit) and now no one wants to insult anybody!? gheesh!! To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw Lines: 59 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 02:22:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.112.26 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1015813372 206.146.112.26 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:22:52 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:22:52 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82749 In article <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin wrote: > pz writes: > > > In article <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, > > Neil Franklin wrote: > > > > > pz writes: [snip] > > > > that contradicts our worldview and is just as obnoxious to us as common > > > > > > So much to your professed "tolerance". It is against your worldview, > > > so it has got to go. > > > > This is reprehensible and dishonest. > > Calling you on your professed tolerance, after you showing that you > are intolerant. That is not reprehensible and dishonest, that is > normal debating. Make errors and suffer them. > > If you dont want to be called on contradictions. Dont make them. > > > > I have said that it is obnoxious. I have not said that I am unable to > > tolerate it; > > You have repeatedly called yourself tolerant (note the difference of > "tolerance for someone elses views" and "tolerate something against > you", it is basic linguistics). > > In above you were clearly intolerant. That is what you were called on. You have a few significant problems here. 1. You are upset and are accusing me of making heinous attacks on people. However, what you've just done over the last few days is make several posts of several hundred lines each that have no purpose other than to attempt to dissect my purported misbehavior at some length. Who is it here who has the habit of making personal attacks on individuals? 2. You've had to resort to lies and blatant misrepresentation to make your case. Calling something "obnoxious" is not an example of intolerance, no matter how much you want to pretend it is. I can dislike someone's opinion and still stand strongly for the principle that they have every right to express it, as I have at all times; it seems to me that you are the one in these exchanges who finds that difficult to comprehend. I'd suggest that you might want to step back and rethink, but I seriously doubt that you can do that. [snip] -- pz ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw Lines: 21 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 02:24:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.112.26 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1015813498 206.146.112.26 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:24:58 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 20:24:58 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82747 In article <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin wrote: > pz writes: > [snip] > > You're just going to have to learn to live with the fact that I have my > > opinion, and I express it. > > Translation: "fuck anyone who dislikes me". Well fitting with the > foul character you demonstrate here. Amazing. *That* is your translation of my comment above, and YOU have the gall to accuse me of having a foul character? Is there something wrong with you? -- pz ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3C8B97F3.3918A88C@cogeco.ca> <20020310204130.20502.00000076@mb-mm.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 14 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 03:20:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.204 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1015816812 208.26.165.204 (Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:20:12 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Mar 2002 19:20:12 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82800 "Dick Silk" wrote in message news:20020310204130.20502.00000076@mb-mm.aol.com... > I think it was Ian who wrote: > > >> Look where that got me. Sherilyn's evidently plonked me, because I engaged > >> her in just such a way. > > Sherilyn isn't a "her", he's a "him." Oh, referring to Sherilyn as "her" is a courtesy that Janice (I think) started. (That was me, not Ian, by the way.) ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:39:12 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <3C8B97F3.3918A88C@cogeco.ca> <20020310204130.20502.00000076@mb-mm.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-583.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82817 In article , "dorothy" says... > Oh, referring to Sherilyn as "her" is a courtesy that Janice (I think) > started. (That was me, not Ian, by the way.) No, the first person I saw referring to Sherilyn as female was PZ. John Fitzsimons was doing the opposite, though, so I was confused and asked Sherilyn what was up. In point of fact I usually make an effort to avoid referring to Sherilyn as *either* he or she. :) -- If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great disappointments.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:45:53 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 33 Message-ID: References: <20020310204130.20502.00000077@mb-mm.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-774.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82792 In article <20020310204130.20502.00000077@mb-mm.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > In article , Janice > writes: > > >silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > > > >> flame zone -- let's raise some HELL! :) > > > >Let's not. Since in part this flame fest arose because of people > >sympathizing with Julia's not feeling comfortable posting, now that she's > >dealing with that issue appropriately and wishes to clear the air, I > >think we can try to respect that wish. > > > > UNbelieveable! I went to the trouble of creating a flame thread so that flames > could be thrown willy nilly within a contained area (like a wizard's pit) and > now no one wants to insult anybody!? gheesh!! LOL, it was a nice idea in principle, but once raging, flames are not always so easily contained. Better for everyone just to cool down a bit, I think, and focus on the subject not the personality issues for a while. -- If you never try anything new, you'll miss out on many of life's great disappointments.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <3C8B97F3.3918A88C@cogeco.ca> <20020310204130.20502.00000076@mb-mm.aol.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 13 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:50:16 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015836616 80.1.123.25 (Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:50:16 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 08:50:16 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82674 In message-id , dorothy wrote: >"Dick Silk" wrote in message >news:20020310204130.20502.00000076@mb-mm.aol.com... [...] >> Sherilyn isn't a "her", he's a "him." > >Oh, referring to Sherilyn as "her" is a courtesy that Janice (I think) >started. (That was me, not Ian, by the way.) > Much appreciated, whoever started it. -- Sherilyn ###### From: "BD" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3C8B97F3.3918A88C@cogeco.ca> <20020310204130.20502.00000076@mb-mm.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 32 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:58:02 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.198.130 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mhtc.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 1015829234 216.180.198.130 (Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:47:14 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 01:47:14 EST Organization: MHTC Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82757 Dick Silk wrote in message <20020310204130.20502.00000076@mb-mm.aol.com>... >I think it was Ian who wrote: > >>> Look where that got me. Sherilyn's evidently plonked me, because I engaged >>> her in just such a way. > >Sherilyn isn't a "her", he's a "him." > We all know that, Dick. For at least a couple/three years, now. And there's really no civil need for you (or anyone) to point that out,... now is there? We refer to Sherilyn as "her", out of respect for any person to choose their own lifestyle... regardless of whether or not we agree with that choice, or whether or not we agree with the opinions of the person, in general. Isn't that what we have based the values of this country on? *You*... seem to be the one "trolling", here....IMO. BD > >To send personal e-mail, please write to: >richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. >All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 47 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 12:42:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.24.241.6 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc02.gnilink.net 1015850561 63.24.241.6 (Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:42:41 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:42:41 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!news-east.rr.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc02.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82732 pz wrote in message news:pzm-3C88A8.16052810032002@news.onvoy.com... > In article , > "The Countess" wrote: > > [snip] > > > I'm no longer so sure of that PZ. Once I became a witch, my life started > > falling into place. After 12 years of marriage, I'm finally divorcing my > > unwanted husband. I even conjured up a female that was more to his > > pleasing, just so he would leave me alone. And she materialized in his > > life. Now, I'm losing a job that I've held for 9 years (the last 4 being > > pure hell sometimes) and I'm moving on to something far less stressfull. > > > > All in all ... after 12 years of nothing. I finally started doing. You can > > consider it the placebo effect. But that's fine. If it works, it works. > > Oh, dear. Your assumptions of cause and effect are seriously awry. It's > good that a change in philosophy may have motivated some changes in your > life, but it's unfortunate that you are ascribing it to a silly set of > superstitions. > > -- > pz You may be right. I may be crazy. But I'll keep my superstitions, thanks. It may be silly, it may even be a crutch, but I'll stick with what works. The good thing is, I can walk up to anyone in this pagan community down here and say that their God or Goddess resides within myself, and they accept that philosophy along side with their own. -- Trish ................. Perspective - Use it or Lose it. ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com> <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw Lines: 64 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:01:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.112.26 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1015851672 206.146.112.26 (Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:01:12 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 07:01:12 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82741 In article <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "The Countess" wrote: > pz wrote in message > news:pzm-3C88A8.16052810032002@news.onvoy.com... > > In article , > > "The Countess" wrote: > > > > [snip] > > > > > I'm no longer so sure of that PZ. Once I became a witch, my life > > > started falling into place. After 12 years of marriage, I'm > > > finally divorcing my unwanted husband. I even conjured up a > > > female that was more to his pleasing, just so he would leave me > > > alone. And she materialized in his life. Now, I'm losing a job > > > that I've held for 9 years (the last 4 being pure hell sometimes) > > > and I'm moving on to something far less stressfull. > > > > > > All in all ... after 12 years of nothing. I finally started > > > doing. You can consider it the placebo effect. But that's fine. > > > If it works, it works. > > > > Oh, dear. Your assumptions of cause and effect are seriously awry. > > It's good that a change in philosophy may have motivated some > > changes in your life, but it's unfortunate that you are ascribing > > it to a silly set of superstitions. > > > > -- pz > > You may be right. I may be crazy. I didn't say you were crazy, so we can't use any potential future commitment to a mental institution as evidence of my accuracy. > > But I'll keep my superstitions, thanks. It may be silly, it may even > be a crutch, but I'll stick with what works. The good thing is, I > can walk up to anyone in this pagan community down here and say that > their God or Goddess resides within myself, and they accept that > philosophy along side with their own. Just so you continue to be aware that it is just a crutch... Somehow, when I was a college student in Seattle, it turned out that a lot of my friends happened to be witches. To me, it was just another wacky religion, no better or worse than christianity or any mainstream belief, and I could see that it was an emotional aid to some of them (and I heard that their parties were pretty wild, too). Unfortunately, one friend went off the deep end on it. He was really into little rituals for personal gain: he'd announce that he'd done some magick the night before to bring him wealth, and thereafter for weeks and weeks, every little incident from finding a dollar in the street to getting a check for tuition from his parents would be regarded as confirmation of his powers. Eventually, he dropped out of college altogether, confident that he'd be able to conjure up everything he'd need. Last I heard, he was mostly living in the street, occasionally taking jobs as a piano mover. But hey, it's been 15 years since I heard anything about him -- maybe he's got that mansion and a couple of voluptious love-slaves now. -- pz ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3C8B97F3.3918A88C@cogeco.ca> <20020310204130.20502.00000076@mb-mm.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 19 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:11:35 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:21:24 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.nntpserver.com!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82843 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.16f61b1dedb09d599899c0@cnews.newsguy.com... > In article , "dorothy" > says... > > > Oh, referring to Sherilyn as "her" is a courtesy that Janice (I think) > > started. (That was me, not Ian, by the way.) > > No, the first person I saw referring to Sherilyn as female was PZ. John > Fitzsimons was doing the opposite, though, so I was confused and asked > Sherilyn what was up. In point of fact I usually make an effort to avoid > referring to Sherilyn as *either* he or she. :) I thought it was Sherilyn , herself, who stated she preferred the "she" reference. ###### Lines: 16 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 11 Mar 2002 14:32:37 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-cn) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020311093237.24404.00000114@mb-cn.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!portc-m01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82708 In article , "dorothy" writes: >> Sherilyn isn't a "her", he's a "him." > >Oh, referring to Sherilyn as "her" is a courtesy that Janice (I think) >started. (That was me, not Ian, by the way.) > even tho Sherilyn is a cross dresser, I don't think it is a courtesy to call a spade a diamond. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020311093237.24404.00000114@mb-cn.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 21 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:38:39 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 09:48:28 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.nntpserver.com!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82840 "Dick Silk" wrote in message news:20020311093237.24404.00000114@mb-cn.aol.com... > In article , "dorothy" televar.com> writes: > > >> Sherilyn isn't a "her", he's a "him." > > > >Oh, referring to Sherilyn as "her" is a courtesy that Janice (I think) > >started. (That was me, not Ian, by the way.) > > > > even tho Sherilyn is a cross dresser, I don't think it is a courtesy to call a > spade a diamond. Didn't you say you were a genius? ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:03:31 -0000 Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <3c88b2f1.2940248@news.ntlworld.com> <3c8b3cc8.5503037@news.ntlworld.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-3725.cheetah.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 1015869501 16023 217.134.110.141 (11 Mar 2002 17:58:21 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Mar 2002 17:58:21 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82794 In article <3c8b3cc8.5503037@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On 9 Mar 2002 18:18:22 -0800, izaak@whoever.com (Isaac) wrote: > >Hi Julia! > > > >I'm glad to see that you are still here too. I haven't rooted around > >enough to get a feel for the nature of your engagement with Sherilyn, > >but I hope you hang in here. > > Hi, Isaac! I'm trying to hang on by my astral fingernails, but the bad > wind from the septic tank is blowing very hard at me! Others are > helping me by offering their hands, however, so I may make it through! It's most flattering, but I do think you are crediting sceptics with more power than they actually possess. Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:03:35 -0000 Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <20020310083106.18191.00000115@mb-mh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-3725.cheetah.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 1015869504 16023 217.134.110.141 (11 Mar 2002 17:58:24 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Mar 2002 17:58:24 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82819 In article <20020310083106.18191.00000115@mb-mh.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > In article , Ian H Spedding > writes: > > >The world has to be dealt with as it is, not the way we would like it > >to be. If water is polluted then then the immediate solution is to > >filter it rather than complain about the pollution > > Ian, that's got to be the first thing you've posted that I have vehemently > disagreed with. > > even tho this is a flame-thread, I'll hold my tongue. > > For now... I await your pleasure. Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 11 Mar 2002 22:00:14 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 71 Message-ID: <6ug0364y75.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1015880415 454 10.0.3.2 (11 Mar 2002 21:00:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Mar 2002 21:00:15 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82857 pz writes: > In article <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, > Neil Franklin wrote: > > > In above you were clearly intolerant. That is what you were called on. > > You have a few significant problems here. Most people have problems with intolerant people. And with bullies. > 1. You are upset and are accusing me of making heinous attacks on > people. However, what you've just done over the last few days is make > several posts of several hundred lines each that have no purpose other > than to attempt to dissect my purported misbehavior at some length. Who > is it here who has the habit of making personal attacks on individuals? You are trying to equal _one_thread_, with your missbehaviour as its theme (which is rather impossible to do without pointing out and explaining what the missbehaviour was, isn't it?) with an pattern of 100s of _repeated_ attacks spread over 2.5 years. One thread does not make "habitual". A case history of 100s of times shows a habit. You fail once again. > 2. You've had to resort to lies Would you point out any lie (= demonstratably wrong statement) I am supposed to have made? Looks like you are going into handwaves. > your case. Calling something "obnoxious" is not an example of > intolerance, Calling something obnoxious and _giving_that_as_"justification"_ for attacks (which you have done in multiple threads) demonstrates your intolerance for that "obnoxious" thing. Unfortunately I can not find that classic post of yours any more, in which you justified aggression towards woowoos "because there is nothing valuable in their posts" (at least words to that extent). That was _the_ classic demonstration of your intolerance. > I'd suggest that you might want to step back and rethink, but I > seriously doubt that you can do that. I would suggest that _you_ step back and rethink, in face of your faillure to get accepted (like Janice and Ian have) into the group in 2.5 years. They were successfull, without giving up their sceptic stance, so it is not impossible. You have only "succeeded" in recieving dislike, from many people. That should be enough to point out, that you are making serious mistakes. And I definitely doubt you have the ability for it, else you would have recognized it and done so long ago. And that brings me to the conclusion, that you are simply too dense to see even obvious things. And that it is an waste of time to continue this thread to get the point over to you. Goodbye. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 11 Mar 2002 10:41:24 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <20020310083106.18191.00000115@mb-mh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-203.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.91 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!unlisys!news.snafu.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82868 In message-id , Ian wrote: > >In article <20020310083106.18191.00000115@mb-mh.aol.com>, >silkdick@aol.commune.net says... >> In article , Ian H Spedding >> writes: >> >> >The world has to be dealt with as it is, not the way we would like it >> >to be. If water is polluted then then the immediate solution is to >> >filter it rather than complain about the pollution >> >> Ian, that's got to be the first thing you've posted that I have vehemently >> disagreed with. >> >> even tho this is a flame-thread, I'll hold my tongue. >> >> For now... > >I await your pleasure. So you're challenging Dick to a duel? -- Sherilyn ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 13:46:36 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <3C8B97F3.3918A88C@cogeco.ca> <20020310204130.20502.00000076@mb-mm.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-208.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!itgate.net!news.it.colt.net!peernews2.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82887 In article , lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > "Janice" wrote in message > news:MPG.16f61b1dedb09d599899c0@cnews.newsguy.com... > > In article , "dorothy" > > says... > > > > > Oh, referring to Sherilyn as "her" is a courtesy that Janice (I think) > > > started. (That was me, not Ian, by the way.) > > > > No, the first person I saw referring to Sherilyn as female was PZ. John > > Fitzsimons was doing the opposite, though, so I was confused and asked > > Sherilyn what was up. In point of fact I usually make an effort to avoid > > referring to Sherilyn as *either* he or she. :) > > I thought it was Sherilyn , herself, who stated she preferred the "she" > reference. Yes, when I asked what was up. -- It hurts to admit when you make mistakes. But when they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <3c88b2f1.2940248@news.ntlworld.com> <3c8b3cc8.5503037@news.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 27 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:43:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news11-gui.server.ntli.net 1015879408 80.1.123.25 (Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:43:28 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 20:43:28 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news11-gui.server.ntli.net.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82864 In message-id , Ian H Spedding wrote: >In article <3c8b3cc8.5503037@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- >moore@ntlworld.com says... >> On 9 Mar 2002 18:18:22 -0800, izaak@whoever.com (Isaac) wrote: >> >Hi Julia! >> > >> >I'm glad to see that you are still here too. I haven't rooted around >> >enough to get a feel for the nature of your engagement with Sherilyn, >> >but I hope you hang in here. >> >> Hi, Isaac! I'm trying to hang on by my astral fingernails, but the bad >> wind from the septic tank is blowing very hard at me! Others are >> helping me by offering their hands, however, so I may make it through! > >It's most flattering, but I do think you are crediting sceptics with >more power than they actually possess. > On the contrary, Julia is the one with the astral powers, the one who can help those who died on September 11th, I think we should at least credit her with the ability to spot the vast, deathly plume cast over this group in the wake of our all-powerful skepti-rays. I expect the only thing keeping Julia's brain from melting is the fact that she's wearing the nice foil "Faraday cage" on her head. -- Sherilyn ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 15:22:51 -0600 Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. Lines: 126 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6ug0364y75.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Trace: laurel.tc.umn.edu 1015881763 5760 146.57.32.36 (11 Mar 2002 21:22:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@laurel.tc.umn.edu User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw, Neil Franklin wrote: > pz writes: > > > In article <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, > > Neil Franklin wrote: > > > > > In above you were clearly intolerant. That is what you were > > > called on. > > > > You have a few significant problems here. > > Most people have problems with intolerant people. And with bullies. There you go again -- expressing your intolerance and trying to bully me. > > > > 1. You are upset and are accusing me of making heinous attacks on > > people. However, what you've just done over the last few days is > > make several posts of several hundred lines each that have no > > purpose other than to attempt to dissect my purported misbehavior > > at some length. Who is it here who has the habit of making personal > > attacks on individuals? > > You are trying to equal _one_thread_, with your missbehaviour as its > theme (which is rather impossible to do without pointing out and > explaining what the missbehaviour was, isn't it?) with an pattern of > 100s of _repeated_ attacks spread over 2.5 years. 100s? Thousands, I suspect. I criticize stupidity, and there's plenty of it going around. So? > > One thread does not make "habitual". A case history of 100s of times > shows a habit. > > You fail once again. No. You've done this before. It's a weird thing you do: you complain about personal attacks, but you do so by singling out people and making personal attacks on them. If you found that I was starting threads with subjects like "Neil Franklin: narrow-minded fraud", in which the content was dedicated to analyzing your character, you might have a case that I'm doing the same thing you are. > > > > 2. You've had to resort to lies > > Would you point out any lie (= demonstratably wrong statement) I am > supposed to have made? Looks like you are going into handwaves. I did. It's right there in the post. Don't blame me if you're going to make unacknowledged edits to my posts (it's another annoying and dishonest trait you've got). > > > > your case. Calling something "obnoxious" is not an example of > > intolerance, > > Calling something obnoxious and _giving_that_as_"justification"_ for > attacks (which you have done in multiple threads) demonstrates your > intolerance for that "obnoxious" thing. Oh, silly man. Look at the context for that comment. Let's restore it, OK? The funny thing is that the skeptics are in exactly the same position: day after day, we see woo-woos posting the most outrageous bilge, stuff that contradicts our worldview and is just as obnoxious to us as common sense, materialism, and the scientific method are to you. Yet you don't see us squalling that people must be shut down, that you are 'grinding on our nerves', or that only One Way of Thinking is allowed. My point was exactly the opposite of what you are trying to claim. I was not justifying attacks; I was saying that even when we may personally find something obnoxious, we do not try to shut down discussion on *your* side. That's quite different from the tactics intolerant twits like you try to follow. I don't see how you can translate my comment into intolerance. Either you are incredibly stupid, or you're dishonestly trying to manipulate my words. > > Unfortunately I can not find that classic post of yours any more, in > which you justified aggression towards woowoos "because there is > nothing valuable in their posts" (at least words to that extent). > > That was _the_ classic demonstration of your intolerance. I see. You're going to use your interpretation of my words, which you can't even find, to justify your personal attack on me. Given your track record in translation here, I don't think that's very wise of you. > > > > I'd suggest that you might want to step back and rethink, but I > > seriously doubt that you can do that. > > I would suggest that _you_ step back and rethink, in face of your > faillure to get accepted (like Janice and Ian have) into the group in > 2.5 years. They were successfull, without giving up their sceptic > stance, so it is not impossible. You have only "succeeded" in > recieving dislike, from many people. That should be enough to point > out, that you are making serious mistakes. Why? Do you think the only measure of success is winning a popularity contest? Like I said, rethink, if you can. My goal in life is not to be the one to die with the most friends, regardless of who they are. I'd rather not pander to fools. > > And I definitely doubt you have the ability for it, else you would > have recognized it and done so long ago. > > And that brings me to the conclusion, that you are simply too dense > to see even obvious things. And that it is an waste of time to > continue this thread to get the point over to you. Goodbye. -- pz ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com> <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 88 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: <%Naj8.1829$dn2.118@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:08:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.11.39.120 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc02.gnilink.net 1015888123 63.11.39.120 (Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:08:43 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:08:43 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc02.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82995 pz wrote in message news:pzm-6D089D.07012511032002@news.onvoy.com... > In article <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, > "The Countess" wrote: > > > pz wrote in message > > news:pzm-3C88A8.16052810032002@news.onvoy.com... > > > In article , > > > "The Countess" wrote: > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > > I'm no longer so sure of that PZ. Once I became a witch, my life > > > > started falling into place. After 12 years of marriage, I'm > > > > finally divorcing my unwanted husband. I even conjured up a > > > > female that was more to his pleasing, just so he would leave me > > > > alone. And she materialized in his life. Now, I'm losing a job > > > > that I've held for 9 years (the last 4 being pure hell sometimes) > > > > and I'm moving on to something far less stressfull. > > > > > > > > All in all ... after 12 years of nothing. I finally started > > > > doing. You can consider it the placebo effect. But that's fine. > > > > If it works, it works. > > > > > > Oh, dear. Your assumptions of cause and effect are seriously awry. > > > It's good that a change in philosophy may have motivated some > > > changes in your life, but it's unfortunate that you are ascribing > > > it to a silly set of superstitions. > > > > > > -- pz > > > > You may be right. I may be crazy. > > I didn't say you were crazy, so we can't use any potential future > commitment to a mental institution as evidence of my accuracy. > > > > > But I'll keep my superstitions, thanks. It may be silly, it may even > > be a crutch, but I'll stick with what works. The good thing is, I > > can walk up to anyone in this pagan community down here and say that > > their God or Goddess resides within myself, and they accept that > > philosophy along side with their own. > > Just so you continue to be aware that it is just a crutch... > > Somehow, when I was a college student in Seattle, it turned out that a > lot of my friends happened to be witches. To me, it was just another > wacky religion, no better or worse than christianity or any mainstream > belief, and I could see that it was an emotional aid to some of them > (and I heard that their parties were pretty wild, too). Unfortunately, > one friend went off the deep end on it. He was really into little > rituals for personal gain: he'd announce that he'd done some magick the > night before to bring him wealth, and thereafter for weeks and weeks, > every little incident from finding a dollar in the street to getting a > check for tuition from his parents would be regarded as confirmation of > his powers. Eventually, he dropped out of college altogether, confident > that he'd be able to conjure up everything he'd need. > > Last I heard, he was mostly living in the street, occasionally taking > jobs as a piano mover. > > But hey, it's been 15 years since I heard anything about him -- maybe > he's got that mansion and a couple of voluptious love-slaves now. > > -- > pz I can't speak for your friend, but I can say that it has definitely pointed me in a direction that made me responsible for getting my life together. I understand that the ritual is mainly for props, but that doesn't bother me. I have many of them, simply because I enjoy them and always have. They help me focus on what I'd like to accomplish ... so they do have a certain importance, to me. Others may define it differently. And if it is a crutch, so be it. Everyone clings to some type of belief structure, whether that person is a materialist, or a woo-woo. Skeptics use the scientific method, and that works well for them. For skeptics, the scientific method is a tool. For believers, the tool may be something different, and used for a different purpose. -- Trish ................. Perspective - Use it or Lose it. ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com> <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 75 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:09:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.11.39.120 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc02.gnilink.net 1015888196 63.11.39.120 (Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:09:56 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:09:56 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc02.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82997 pz wrote in message news:pzm-6D089D.07012511032002@news.onvoy.com... > In article <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, > "The Countess" wrote: > > > pz wrote in message > > news:pzm-3C88A8.16052810032002@news.onvoy.com... > > > In article , > > > "The Countess" wrote: > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > > I'm no longer so sure of that PZ. Once I became a witch, my life > > > > started falling into place. After 12 years of marriage, I'm > > > > finally divorcing my unwanted husband. I even conjured up a > > > > female that was more to his pleasing, just so he would leave me > > > > alone. And she materialized in his life. Now, I'm losing a job > > > > that I've held for 9 years (the last 4 being pure hell sometimes) > > > > and I'm moving on to something far less stressfull. > > > > > > > > All in all ... after 12 years of nothing. I finally started > > > > doing. You can consider it the placebo effect. But that's fine. > > > > If it works, it works. > > > > > > Oh, dear. Your assumptions of cause and effect are seriously awry. > > > It's good that a change in philosophy may have motivated some > > > changes in your life, but it's unfortunate that you are ascribing > > > it to a silly set of superstitions. > > > > > > -- pz > > > > You may be right. I may be crazy. > > I didn't say you were crazy, so we can't use any potential future > commitment to a mental institution as evidence of my accuracy. > > > > > But I'll keep my superstitions, thanks. It may be silly, it may even > > be a crutch, but I'll stick with what works. The good thing is, I > > can walk up to anyone in this pagan community down here and say that > > their God or Goddess resides within myself, and they accept that > > philosophy along side with their own. > > Just so you continue to be aware that it is just a crutch... > > Somehow, when I was a college student in Seattle, it turned out that a > lot of my friends happened to be witches. To me, it was just another > wacky religion, no better or worse than christianity or any mainstream > belief, and I could see that it was an emotional aid to some of them > (and I heard that their parties were pretty wild, too). Unfortunately, > one friend went off the deep end on it. He was really into little > rituals for personal gain: he'd announce that he'd done some magick the > night before to bring him wealth, and thereafter for weeks and weeks, > every little incident from finding a dollar in the street to getting a > check for tuition from his parents would be regarded as confirmation of > his powers. Eventually, he dropped out of college altogether, confident > that he'd be able to conjure up everything he'd need. > > Last I heard, he was mostly living in the street, occasionally taking > jobs as a piano mover. > > But hey, it's been 15 years since I heard anything about him -- maybe > he's got that mansion and a couple of voluptious love-slaves now. > > -- > pz And yes, the parties can become pretty wild, to the mainstream that is. ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com> <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <1f8vh4c.1osx5l3kzmk74N%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 33 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 23:11:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.11.39.120 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc02.gnilink.net 1015888300 63.11.39.120 (Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:11:40 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 18:11:40 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc02.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82998 jfred wrote in message news:1f8vh4c.1osx5l3kzmk74N%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net... > The Countess wrote: > > > You may be right. I may be crazy. > > Billy Joel? ;-) You're right. That's what I was aiming for. : ) > > But I'll keep my superstitions, thanks. It may be silly, it may even be a > > crutch, but I'll stick with what works. The good thing is, I can walk up to > > anyone in this pagan community down here and say that their God or Goddess > > resides within myself, and they accept that philosophy along side with their > > own. > > You go, grrrrl. Best wishes as you move onto bigger and better things... Thanks jfred. -- Trish ................. Perspective - Use it or Lose it. ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 17:12:54 -0600 Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3c894543.14996949@news.ntlworld.com> <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> X-Trace: laurel.tc.umn.edu 1015888368 6863 146.57.32.36 (11 Mar 2002 23:12:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@laurel.tc.umn.edu User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw, "The Countess" wrote: [snip] > And yes, the parties can become pretty wild, to the mainstream that is. Damn. I knew there was a reason to regret being an atheist. -- pz ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:01:56 -0000 Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <3c88b2f1.2940248@news.ntlworld.com> <3c8b3cc8.5503037@news.ntlworld.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-2324.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk 1015891006 5241 217.134.233.20 (11 Mar 2002 23:56:46 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Mar 2002 23:56:46 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83050 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org says... > In message-id , > Ian H Spedding wrote: > >In article <3c8b3cc8.5503037@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > >moore@ntlworld.com says... > >> On 9 Mar 2002 18:18:22 -0800, izaak@whoever.com (Isaac) wrote: > >> >Hi Julia! > >> > > >> >I'm glad to see that you are still here too. I haven't rooted around > >> >enough to get a feel for the nature of your engagement with Sherilyn, > >> >but I hope you hang in here. > >> > >> Hi, Isaac! I'm trying to hang on by my astral fingernails, but the bad > >> wind from the septic tank is blowing very hard at me! Others are > >> helping me by offering their hands, however, so I may make it through! > > > >It's most flattering, but I do think you are crediting sceptics with > >more power than they actually possess. > > > On the contrary, Julia is the one with the astral powers, the one who > can help those who died on September 11th, I think we should at least > credit her with the ability to spot the vast, deathly plume cast over > this group in the wake of our all-powerful skepti-rays. Does this cast PZ in the Sauron role with you as Saruman, or is it the other way round? Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:01:59 -0000 Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <20020310083106.18191.00000115@mb-mh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-2324.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk 1015891008 5241 217.134.233.20 (11 Mar 2002 23:56:48 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Mar 2002 23:56:48 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83029 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org says... > In message-id , Ian wrote: > > > >In article <20020310083106.18191.00000115@mb-mh.aol.com>, > >silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > >> In article , Ian H Spedding > >> writes: > >> > >> >The world has to be dealt with as it is, not the way we would like it > >> >to be. If water is polluted then then the immediate solution is to > >> >filter it rather than complain about the pollution > >> > >> Ian, that's got to be the first thing you've posted that I have vehemently > >> disagreed with. > >> > >> even tho this is a flame-thread, I'll hold my tongue. > >> > >> For now... > > > >I await your pleasure. > > So you're challenging Dick to a duel? Of wits? Of course. Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <3c88b2f1.2940248@news.ntlworld.com> <3c8b3cc8.5503037@news.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 18 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:04:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news11-gui.server.ntli.net 1015891498 80.1.123.25 (Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:04:58 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 00:04:58 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news11-gui.server.ntli.net.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82913 In message-id , Ian H Spedding wrote: >In article , >sherilyn@suespammers.org says... [...] >> > >> On the contrary, Julia is the one with the astral powers, the one who >> can help those who died on September 11th, I think we should at least >> credit her with the ability to spot the vast, deathly plume cast over >> this group in the wake of our all-powerful skepti-rays. > >Does this cast PZ in the Sauron role with you as Saruman, or is it the >other way round? > I think we're more likely to sit the whole thing out in Lothlorien, to be perfectly honest. -- Sherilyn ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <3c8d2832.16479779@news.ntlworld.com> References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6ug0364y75.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 10 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:50:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.80.111 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015930382 62.253.80.111 (Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:53:02 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 10:53:02 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82983 On 11 Mar 2002 22:00:14 +0100, Neil Franklin wrote: Yet more well-constructed and lucid comments! Gosh, I'm glad that you do have a thick skin, and I hope that it is encased in armour of gold, well deserved by such a splendid Knight on a quest for the Holy Grail, rather than a Crusade! Love from Julia ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <2002030823420275767@zetnet.co.uk> <20020309163108.02786.00000145@mb-mu.aol.com> <20020310083106.18191.00000115@mb-mh.aol.com> <1f8wi9f.cxge676w9hqdN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 39 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:41:38 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 09:51:22 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!headwall.stanford.edu!hub1.nntpserver.com!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83071 "jfred" wrote in message news:1f8wi9f.cxge676w9hqdN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net... > Ian H Spedding wrote: > > > In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org > > says... > > > In message-id , Ian wrote: > > > > > > > >In article <20020310083106.18191.00000115@mb-mh.aol.com>, > > > >silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > > > >> In article , Ian H > > > >> Spedding writes: > > > >> > > > >> >The world has to be dealt with as it is, not the way we would like > > > >> >it to be. If water is polluted then then the immediate solution is > > > >> >to filter it rather than complain about the pollution > > > >> > > > >> Ian, that's got to be the first thing you've posted that I have > > > >> vehemently disagreed with. > > > >> > > > >> even tho this is a flame-thread, I'll hold my tongue. > > > >> > > > >> For now... > > > > > > > >I await your pleasure. > > > > > > So you're challenging Dick to a duel? > > > > Of wits? Of course. > > What kind of odds can I get on this one? ;-) Funny! ###### Lines: 14 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 12 Mar 2002 19:45:14 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-bh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020312144514.06778.00000170@mb-bh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82940 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) writes: > >>What about the sexual instinct as a perpetrator? >> >What about these guys taking themselves in hand? ;) that would be far better than taking one up the bunghole... To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 17 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 12 Mar 2002 19:45:14 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-bh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020312144514.06778.00000171@mb-bh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82941 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) writes: >>Does this cast PZ in the Sauron role with you as Saruman, or is it the >>other way round? >> >I think we're more likely to sit the whole thing out in Lothlorien, to >be perfectly honest. >-- the elves would hunt you down and slaughter you both mercilessly, without even asking a single question beforehand. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 26 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 12 Mar 2002 19:45:15 GMT References: <1f8wi9f.cxge676w9hqdN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-bh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020312144515.06778.00000172@mb-bh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82945 In article <1f8wi9f.cxge676w9hqdN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net>, spnak@petitNOTmorte.net (jfred) writes: Ian>If water is polluted then then the immediate solution is to filter it rather than complain about the pollution ds>> Ian, that's got to be the first thing you've posted that I have vehemently disagreed with. ds>> even tho this is a flame-thread, I'll hold my tongue. ... For now... Ian>I await your pleasure. jf?> So you're challenging Dick to a duel? ian?> Of wits? Of course. jf>What kind of odds can I get on this one none: I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. :) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 18 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 12 Mar 2002 19:45:18 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-bh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020312144518.06778.00000173@mb-bh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82959 In article , pz writes: >> And yes, the parties can become pretty wild, to the mainstream that is. > >Damn. I knew there was a reason to regret being an atheist. > I KNEW there HAD to be a reason PZ was such an asshole... he has no God. Ergo, he's a heartless, soul-less bastard. ah, it all makes sense now... To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 13 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 12 Mar 2002 19:45:19 GMT References: <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-bh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020312144519.06778.00000174@mb-bh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!unlisys!news.snafu.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82967 In article <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "The Countess" writes: > >And yes, the parties can become pretty wild, to the mainstream that is. > ooooo! do tell, do tell !!! ;) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 13 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 12 Mar 2002 19:45:19 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-bh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020312144519.06778.00000175@mb-bh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!feed1.newsreader.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82971 In article , pz writes: >100s? Thousands, I suspect. I criticize stupidity, and there's plenty of >it going around. So? > so go look in the mirror. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 41 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 12 Mar 2002 19:45:23 GMT References: <6ug0364y75.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-bh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020312144523.06778.00000176@mb-bh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82955 In article <6ug0364y75.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin writes: >And that brings me to the conclusion, that you are simply too dense to >see even obvious things. And that it is an waste of time to continue >this thread to get the point over to you. Goodbye. > way to go, Neil ! :) that was one of the more intelligent attacks I've seen against the vicious, spiteful wretch known as PZ. I would like, however, to make a suggestion as to your grammar: the word "an" precedes words starting with a vowel, such as: an apple, an awful waste of time, an omen, an elephant, an umbrella. Also in front of a soft H, such as: an honor, an heir, etc. the word "a" precedes words starting with consonants or hard h's, such as: a waste, a habit, a chocolate bar, etc. although w's are vowels in gaelic, they are consonants for the most part in English. Sorry to nit-pick, but it's a pet peeve of mine, and I know you're of sufficiently admirable moral character to understand this is meant with good intentions, such as: "I'd like to polish off that spot of mud (on your shining armor) which you picked up while battleing the mud-slinging dragon known as PZ" :) I thought the answer to getting rid of pz was to killfile him. Well, that helps one's self, but does nothing to rid the *community* of his plague. Thus, I feel we *should* band together and continue to post our scorn and derision upon his tactics until he either changes his approach, or backs out entirely. Don't give up until he's gone! we need more intelligent folk like yourself who can verbalize their complaints as clearly as you do. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 20 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 12 Mar 2002 19:45:24 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-bh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020312144524.06778.00000177@mb-bh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82962 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) writes: >On the contrary, Julia is the one with the astral powers, the one who >can help those who died on September 11th, I think we should at least >credit her with the ability to spot the vast, deathly plume cast over >this group in the wake of our all-powerful skepti-rays. > >I expect the only thing keeping Julia's brain from melting is the fact >that she's wearing the nice foil "Faraday cage" on her head. >-- me thinks me detects the sour notes of jealousy here... if not misogyny... To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 31 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 12 Mar 2002 19:45:25 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-bh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020312144525.06778.00000178@mb-bh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82970 In article , pz writes: >one friend went off the deep end on it. He was really into little >rituals for personal gain: he'd announce that he'd done some magick the >night before to bring him wealth, and thereafter for weeks and weeks, >every little incident from finding a dollar in the street to getting a >check for tuition from his parents would be regarded as confirmation of >his powers. Eventually, he dropped out of college altogether, confident >that he'd be able to conjure up everything he'd need. > >Last I heard, he was mostly living in the street, occasionally taking >jobs as a piano mover. > >But hey, it's been 15 years since I heard anything about him -- maybe >he's got that mansion and a couple of voluptious love-slaves now. > I'd say that the strength or weakness of one's own character, or the flaws of their own thought processes, has nothing or very little to do with whatever religion they're professing. Many Christians happen to be homeless, recovering alcholics for example. It's only because they found Christian aid in the relief missions rather than covens. (That's a poor example, sorry.) What I guess I should say is: if your friend had been a Christian rather than a pagan or witch, he'd have stated that he had prayed to God for money, and used that same example as reason to believe that God would provide all he needed, and then dropped out of college just the same. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 23 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 12 Mar 2002 19:45:26 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-bh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020312144526.06778.00000180@mb-bh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!feed1.newsreader.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82947 In article , Janice writes: >> UNbelieveable! I went to the trouble of creating a flame thread so that >flames >> could be thrown willy nilly within a contained area (like a wizard's pit) >and >> now no one wants to insult anybody!? gheesh!! > >LOL, it was a nice idea in principle, but once raging, flames are not >always so easily contained. Better for everyone just to cool down a bit, >I think, and focus on the subject not the personality issues for a while. > NONSENSE! I have thrown my 12th level FIREBALL spell at you -- roll your saving throw... :) what additional defenses do you have against magic and/or fire? (Tell the dungeon master, so your total damage may be assessed.) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 15 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 12 Mar 2002 19:45:26 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-bh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020312144526.06778.00000181@mb-bh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82951 In article , Janice writes: >I usually make an effort to avoid referring to Sherilyn as *either* he or she. :) that's a very considerate approach on your part. I have also seen trans-gendered individuals refered to simply using the pronoun : "s/he". Thus, when speaking of Sherilyn's wardrobe, one might say s/he has a wide selection to choose from. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 26 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 12 Mar 2002 19:45:27 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-bh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020312144527.06778.00000182@mb-bh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!cyclone.bc.net!torn!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!feed1.newsreader.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82958 In article , "BD" writes: >there's really no civil need for you (or anyone) to point that out,... now >is there? yes, there is. I was misled by other's usage of an incorrect gender pronoun. I have no beef with how someone chooses to dress or not dress or any other such twists, but a "he" is a "he" and a "she" is a "she" and a "spade" is a "spade." The mere combination of using the pronoun "he" in reference to the name "Sherilyn" should be sufficient to clue someone in that there's a twist present. I suppose I was suckered in a little too easily because my two oldest sisters are Sherry and Marilyn -- hence I thought Sherilyn must be one incredibly talented female oops -- see? Yes, the civil need is definitely present. Aside from the need to keep chromosomal gender clearly defined, I do think that "Sherilyn" is a very clever name, and perhaps unique, as I've never heard anyone else use that nomenclature before. If he invented it himself, he deserves proper credit for that one :) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020312144518.06778.00000173@mb-bh.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 25 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <6atj8.48505$Yd.2775272@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:03:14 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:12:54 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news-hub.siol.net!newsfeeds-atl2!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83061 "Dick Silk" wrote in message news:20020312144518.06778.00000173@mb-bh.aol.com... > In article , pz > writes: > > >> And yes, the parties can become pretty wild, to the mainstream that is. > > > >Damn. I knew there was a reason to regret being an atheist. > > > > I KNEW there HAD to be a reason PZ was such an asshole... he has no God. > Ergo, he's a heartless, soul-less bastard. > So your god tells you, "Thou shall judge"? >ah, it all makes sense now... Sure does. ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020312144527.06778.00000182@mb-bh.aol.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 16 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:18:33 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news11-gui.server.ntli.net 1015964313 80.1.123.25 (Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:18:33 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:18:33 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news11-gui.server.ntli.net.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82931 In message-id <20020312144527.06778.00000182@mb-bh.aol.com>, Dick Silk wrote: > >Aside from the need to keep chromosomal gender clearly defined, I do think that >"Sherilyn" is a very clever name, and perhaps unique, as I've never heard >anyone else use that nomenclature before. It's not that uncommon a name. Sherilyn van Valkenburg, Sherilyn Fenn, Sherilyn Godreau, and many other Sherilyns, female and transgendered, whom I have had the pleasure of meeting on the net or in person over the past six years or so. [...] -- Sherilyn ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6ug0364y75.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <20020312144523.06778.00000176@mb-bh.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 54 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:15:36 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:25:16 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!newsfeeds-atl2!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83072 "Dick Silk" wrote in message news:20020312144523.06778.00000176@mb-bh.aol.com... > In article <6ug0364y75.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin > writes: > > >And that brings me to the conclusion, that you are simply too dense to > >see even obvious things. And that it is an waste of time to continue > >this thread to get the point over to you. Goodbye. > > > > way to go, Neil ! :) Way to go, Neil! > that was one of the more intelligent attacks I've seen > against the vicious, spiteful wretch known as PZ. I would like, however, to > make a suggestion as to your grammar: > > the word "an" precedes words starting with a vowel, such as: an apple, an > awful waste of time, an omen, an elephant, an umbrella. Also in front of a > soft H, such as: an honor, an heir, etc. > > the word "a" precedes words starting with consonants or hard h's, That "h" should have been H. > such as: a > waste, a habit, a chocolate bar, etc. > > although w's are vowels in gaelic, You mean Gaelic. > they are consonants for the most part in > English. > > Sorry to nit-pick, but it's a pet peeve of mine, and I know you're of > sufficiently admirable moral character to understand this is meant with good > intentions, such as: "I'd like to polish off that spot of mud (on your shining > armor) which you picked up while battleing battling (remember to drop the "e" and add "ing" Isn't this silly? ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <3c8e6559.13486463@news.ntlworld.com> References: <6ug0364y75.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <20020312144523.06778.00000176@mb-bh.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 11 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:38:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.84.150 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015965656 62.253.84.150 (Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:40:56 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 20:40:56 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!194.6.79.69.MISMATCH!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:82981 On 12 Mar 2002 19:45:23 GMT, silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) wrote: >way to go, Neil ! :) that was one of the more intelligent attacks I've seen >against the vicious, spiteful wretch known as PZ. I would like, however, to >make a suggestion as to your grammar: Neil lives in Switzerland, Richard, and has done for many years. How is your French, German and Italian these days? I'll bet that Neil's is better. ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:19:50 -0600 Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <20020312144525.06778.00000178@mb-bh.aol.com> X-Trace: laurel.tc.umn.edu 1015967978 26722 146.57.32.36 (12 Mar 2002 21:19:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@laurel.tc.umn.edu User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw, silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) wrote: > In article , pz > writes: > > >one friend went off the deep end on it. He was really into little > >rituals for personal gain: he'd announce that he'd done some magick > >the night before to bring him wealth, and thereafter for weeks and > >weeks, every little incident from finding a dollar in the street to > >getting a check for tuition from his parents would be regarded as > >confirmation of his powers. Eventually, he dropped out of college > >altogether, confident that he'd be able to conjure up everything > >he'd need. > > > >Last I heard, he was mostly living in the street, occasionally > >taking jobs as a piano mover. > > > >But hey, it's been 15 years since I heard anything about him -- > >maybe he's got that mansion and a couple of voluptious love-slaves > >now. > > > > I'd say that the strength or weakness of one's own character, or the > flaws of their own thought processes, has nothing or very little to > do with whatever religion they're professing. Many Christians happen > to be homeless, recovering alcholics for example. It's only because > they found Christian aid in the relief missions rather than covens. > (That's a poor example, sorry.) What I guess I should say is: if > your friend had been a Christian rather than a pagan or witch, he'd > have stated that he had prayed to God for money, and used that same > example as reason to believe that God would provide all he needed, > and then dropped out of college just the same. Well, yes. I'm an atheist, remember? I see no particular virtue in either christianity or wicca, and figure he would have been just as self-destructive had he been christian, moslem, hindu, or witch. -- pz ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:23:31 -0000 Lines: 33 Message-ID: References: <1f8wi9f.cxge676w9hqdN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <20020312144515.06778.00000172@mb-bh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-2511.cheetah.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 1015967898 15716 217.134.105.207 (12 Mar 2002 21:18:18 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Mar 2002 21:18:18 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!194.25.134.62!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83047 In article <20020312144515.06778.00000172@mb-bh.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > In article <1f8wi9f.cxge676w9hqdN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net>, > spnak@petitNOTmorte.net (jfred) writes: > > Ian>If water is polluted then then the immediate solution is to filter it > rather than complain about the pollution > > ds>> Ian, that's got to be the first thing you've posted that I have vehemently > disagreed with. > ds>> even tho this is a flame-thread, I'll hold my tongue. ... For now... > > Ian>I await your pleasure. > > jf?> So you're challenging Dick to a duel? > > ian?> Of wits? Of course. > > jf>What kind of odds can I get on this one > > none: I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. > > :) I quite understand. It could be rather embarrassing to be beaten by an unarmed opponent. :) Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:27:11 -0600 Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. Lines: 59 Message-ID: References: <6ug0364y75.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <20020312144523.06778.00000176@mb-bh.aol.com> X-Trace: laurel.tc.umn.edu 1015968419 26722 146.57.32.36 (12 Mar 2002 21:26:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@laurel.tc.umn.edu User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw, silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) wrote: > In article <6ug0364y75.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin > writes: > > >And that brings me to the conclusion, that you are simply too dense > >to see even obvious things. And that it is an waste of time to > >continue this thread to get the point over to you. Goodbye. > > > > way to go, Neil ! :) that was one of the more intelligent attacks > I've seen against the vicious, spiteful wretch known as PZ. Please do continue. I wish all my critics would attack me in such ways as to discredit their own argument. > I would > like, however, to make a suggestion as to your grammar: > > the word "an" precedes words starting with a vowel, such as: an > apple, an awful waste of time, an omen, an elephant, an umbrella. > Also in front of a soft H, such as: an honor, an heir, etc. > > the word "a" precedes words starting with consonants or hard h's, > such as: a waste, a habit, a chocolate bar, etc. > > although w's are vowels in gaelic, they are consonants for the most > part in English. > > Sorry to nit-pick, but it's a pet peeve of mine, and I know you're of > sufficiently admirable moral character to understand this is meant > with good intentions, such as: "I'd like to polish off that spot of > mud (on your shining armor) which you picked up while battleing the > mud-slinging dragon known as PZ" > > :) Reading this, "pompous twit" is a phrase that comes to mind... > > I thought the answer to getting rid of pz was to killfile him. Well, > that helps one's self, but does nothing to rid the *community* of his > plague. Thus, I feel we *should* band together and continue to post > our scorn and derision upon his tactics until he either changes his > approach, or backs out entirely. Yes! Very good! Give in to your hatred, Mr Silk. > > Don't give up until he's gone! we need more intelligent folk like > yourself who can verbalize their complaints as clearly as you do. You mean, "incompetent whiners who can mangle and misinterpret posts as thoroughly as he does". You seem to have some skill in that regard yourself. -- pz ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:34:41 -0600 Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: <20020312144526.06778.00000180@mb-bh.aol.com> X-Trace: laurel.tc.umn.edu 1015968869 26722 146.57.32.36 (12 Mar 2002 21:34:29 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@laurel.tc.umn.edu User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw, silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) wrote: > In article , Janice > writes: > > >> UNbelieveable! I went to the trouble of creating a flame thread > >> so that flames could be thrown willy nilly within a contained area > >> (like a wizard's pit) and now no one wants to insult anybody!? > >> gheesh!! > > > >LOL, it was a nice idea in principle, but once raging, flames are > >not always so easily contained. Better for everyone just to cool > >down a bit, I think, and focus on the subject not the personality > >issues for a while. > > > > NONSENSE! I have thrown my 12th level FIREBALL spell at > you -- roll your saving throw... :) what additional defenses do you > have against magic and/or fire? (Tell the dungeon master, so your > total damage may be assessed.) The dungeon master? That would be me. Sorry, Mr Silk. After cross-indexing your skill level with your intelligence, I rolled to determine the force of your fireball. I'm afraid that all you managed to do was make a squeaky little fart that Janice didn't even notice. You now need to roll *your* saving throw to determine whether you soiled your loincloth. -- pz ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:39:50 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <20020312144526.06778.00000180@mb-bh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-001.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83037 In article <20020312144526.06778.00000180@mb-bh.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > NONSENSE! I have thrown my 12th level FIREBALL spell at you -- > roll your saving throw... :) > what additional defenses do you have against magic and/or fire? (Tell the > dungeon master, so your total damage may be assessed.) "Shun magic! Shun the appearance of magic! Shun everything, and then shun shunning!"--The Grand Inquisitor of Zork ###### Lines: 41 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 12 Mar 2002 22:31:02 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ml) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020312173102.12419.00000240@mb-ml.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83113 In article , "lorz" writes: >> the word "an" precedes words starting with a vowel, such as: an apple, an >> awful waste of time, an omen, an elephant, an umbrella. Also in front of >a >> soft H, such as: an honor, an heir, etc. >> >> the word "a" precedes words starting with consonants or hard h's, >That "h" should have been H. is there a grammatical rule you can associate to your statement? However, I *can* see where it might look better ... >> such as: a waste, a habit, a chocolate bar, etc. >> although w's are vowels in gaelic, > >You mean Gaelic. yes, ya caught me dead to rights on that one. >> they are consonants for the most part in English. >> Sorry to nit-pick, but it's a pet peeve of mine, and I know you're of >> sufficiently admirable moral character to understand this is meant with >good intentions, such as: "I'd like to polish off that spot of mud (on your >shining armor) which you picked up while battleing >battling (remember to drop the "e" and add "ing" correct. I deliberated that word, and decided to leave it as "eing" to see if anyone would pick up on it. Well done! >Isn't this silly? very. :) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 18 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 12 Mar 2002 22:31:03 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ml) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020312173103.12419.00000241@mb-ml.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!unlisys!news.snafu.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83114 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) writes: > >It's not that uncommon a name. > >Sherilyn van Valkenburg, Sherilyn Fenn, Sherilyn Godreau, and many other >Sherilyns, female and transgendered, whom I have had the pleasure of >meeting on the net or in person over the past six years or so you're the only person I've ever encountered, net or otherwise, with that name. It may be common in "your circles", but it certainly isn't common over here in the Bible Belt... To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 15 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 12 Mar 2002 22:31:04 GMT References: <6atj8.48505$Yd.2775272@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ml) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020312173104.12419.00000242@mb-ml.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83115 In article <6atj8.48505$Yd.2775272@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, "lorz" writes: >So your god tells you, "Thou shall judge"? absolutely! 1st Corinthians, Chapter 2, vs 15: 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: garrison@efn.org (Garrison Hilliard) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 12 Mar 2002 15:03:50 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.68.31.28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1015974230 9444 127.0.0.1 (12 Mar 2002 23:03:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Mar 2002 23:03:50 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83267 Neil Franklin wrote in message news:<6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>... > > The most routinely > > reviled people on this newsgroup are Garrison Hilliard, Sherilyn, and > > me. > > They are also those people who have done everything possible to make > themselves disliked. Reap what you sow. Prove it; please demonstrate where I've ever did anything other than to ask "Please provide evidence that OOBEs are anything more than delusions, hallucinations, or outright lies." and then suffered an onslaught of abuse for daring to question the "reality" of oobe's. I'm waiting... ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:14:06 -0600 Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Trace: laurel.tc.umn.edu 1015974836 28596 146.57.32.36 (12 Mar 2002 23:13:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@laurel.tc.umn.edu User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw, garrison@efn.org (Garrison Hilliard) wrote: > Neil Franklin wrote in message > news:<6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>... > > > The most routinely reviled people on this newsgroup are Garrison > > > Hilliard, Sherilyn, and me. > > > > They are also those people who have done everything possible to > > make themselves disliked. Reap what you sow. > > Prove it; please demonstrate where I've ever did anything other than > to ask "Please provide evidence that OOBEs are anything more than > delusions, hallucinations, or outright lies." and then suffered an > onslaught of abuse for daring to question the "reality" of oobe's. > I'm waiting... Criticizing cherished delusions constitutes doing "everything possible to make themselves disliked". -- pz ###### Message-ID: <3C8E8E48.560D4A3A@cogeco.ca> From: Tien Yen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:24:56 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.150.231.178 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cogeco.ca X-Trace: read2.cgocable.net 1015975654 24.150.231.178 (Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:27:34 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:27:34 EST Organization: Cogeco Cable Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!hub1.nntpserver.com!feed.cgocable.net!read2.cgocable.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83294 ******** ******** wrote: > > Neil Franklin wrote in message news:<6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>... > > > The most routinely > > > reviled people on this newsgroup are ******** ********, Sherilyn, and > > > me. > > > > They are also those people who have done everything possible to make > > themselves disliked. Reap what you sow. > > Prove it; please demonstrate where I've ever did anything other than > to ask "Please provide evidence that OOBEs are anything more than > delusions, > hallucinations, or outright lies." and then suffered an onslaught of > abuse for daring to question the "reality" of oobe's. I'm waiting... it has been named! and, lo, it has come ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 17:37:05 -0600 Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3C8E8E48.560D4A3A@cogeco.ca> X-Trace: laurel.tc.umn.edu 1015976216 28596 146.57.32.36 (12 Mar 2002 23:36:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@laurel.tc.umn.edu User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw, Tien Yen wrote: > ******** ******** wrote: > > > > Neil Franklin wrote in message > > news:<6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>... > > > > The most routinely > > > > reviled people on this newsgroup are ******** ********, Sherilyn, and > > > > me. > > > > > > They are also those people who have done everything possible to make > > > themselves disliked. Reap what you sow. > > > > Prove it; please demonstrate where I've ever did anything other than > > to ask "Please provide evidence that OOBEs are anything more than > > delusions, > > hallucinations, or outright lies." and then suffered an onslaught of > > abuse for daring to question the "reality" of oobe's. I'm waiting... > > > > > it has been named! > and, lo, it has come Mr Silk must have been right for a change. Our names *are* incantations for summoning demons. garrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsheri lynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraill ihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhil liardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnyli rehsdraillihnosirrag! -- pz ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3C8E8E48.560D4A3A@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 21 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:45:35 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015976735 80.1.123.25 (Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:45:35 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:45:35 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!194.6.79.69.MISMATCH!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83102 In message-id , pz wrote: [...] > >Mr Silk must have been right for a change. Our names *are* incantations >for summoning demons. > >garrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsheri >lynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraill >ihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhil >liardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnyli >rehsdraillihnosirrag! > Nah, if you want a really good incantation, try this one: bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronnton nerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoo hoordenenthurnuk -- Sherilyn "it's Dead White Irish Guys now" ###### Message-ID: <3C8E9CDE.A6581196@cogeco.ca> From: Tien Yen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3C8E8E48.560D4A3A@cogeco.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:27:10 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.150.231.178 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cogeco.ca X-Trace: read1.cgocable.net 1015979412 24.150.231.178 (Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:30:12 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:30:12 EST Organization: Cogeco Cable Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!feed.cgocable.net!read1.cgocable.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83295 Sherilyn wrote: > > In message-id , > pz wrote: > [...] > > > >Mr Silk must have been right for a change. Our names *are* incantations > >for summoning demons. > > > >garrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsheri > >lynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraill > >ihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhil > >liardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnyli > >rehsdraillihnosirrag! > > > Nah, if you want a really good incantation, try this one: > > bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronnton > nerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoo > hoordenenthurnuk Now, would this be a case of group grepping? ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3C8E8E48.560D4A3A@cogeco.ca> <3C8E9CDE.A6581196@cogeco.ca> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 29 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:32:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1015979561 80.1.123.25 (Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:32:41 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:32:41 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsmaster-01.atnet.at!atnet.at!newsrouter.chello.at!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!lon1-news.nildram.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83089 In message-id <3C8E9CDE.A6581196@cogeco.ca>, Tien Yen wrote: >Sherilyn wrote: >> >> In message-id , >> pz wrote: >> [...] >> > >> >Mr Silk must have been right for a change. Our names *are* incantations >> >for summoning demons. >> > >> >garrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsheri >> >lynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraill >> >ihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhil >> >liardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnyli >> >rehsdraillihnosirrag! >> > >> Nah, if you want a really good incantation, try this one: >> >> bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronnton >> nerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoo >> hoordenenthurnuk > >Now, would this be a case of group grepping? No, it's a very famous word from Finnegans Wake. It's his word for the fall from Eden. -- Sherilyn ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:40:01 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 35 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3C8E8E48.560D4A3A@cogeco.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-634.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83260 In article <3C8E8E48.560D4A3A@cogeco.ca>, TienYen@cogeco.ca says... > ******** ******** wrote: > > > > Neil Franklin wrote in message news:<6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>... > > > > The most routinely > > > > reviled people on this newsgroup are ******** ********, Sherilyn, and > > > > me. > > > > > > They are also those people who have done everything possible to make > > > themselves disliked. Reap what you sow. > > > > Prove it; please demonstrate where I've ever did anything other than > > to ask "Please provide evidence that OOBEs are anything more than > > delusions, > > hallucinations, or outright lies." and then suffered an onslaught of > > abuse for daring to question the "reality" of oobe's. I'm waiting... > > > > > it has been named! > and, lo, it has come Freakin' hell! He invoked the Name! -- It hurts to admit when you make mistakes. But when they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3C8E8E48.560D4A3A@cogeco.ca> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 32 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 05:06:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.62 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1015996004 208.26.165.62 (Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:06:44 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 21:06:44 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!torn!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83235 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.16f869ee3114f51b9899ef@cnews.newsguy.com... > In article <3C8E8E48.560D4A3A@cogeco.ca>, TienYen@cogeco.ca says... > > ******** ******** wrote: > > > > > > Neil Franklin wrote in message news:<6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>... > > > > > The most routinely > > > > > reviled people on this newsgroup are ******** ********, Sherilyn, and > > > > > me. > > > > > > > > They are also those people who have done everything possible to make > > > > themselves disliked. Reap what you sow. > > > > > > Prove it; please demonstrate where I've ever did anything other than > > > to ask "Please provide evidence that OOBEs are anything more than > > > delusions, > > > hallucinations, or outright lies." and then suffered an onslaught of > > > abuse for daring to question the "reality" of oobe's. I'm waiting... > > > > > > > > > > it has been named! > > and, lo, it has come > > Freakin' hell! He invoked the Name! Blast! Wot a predictable fellow! ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:21:14 -0000 Lines: 46 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3C8E8E48.560D4A3A@cogeco.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-1945.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news5.svr.pol.co.uk 1016021761 543 217.134.119.153 (13 Mar 2002 12:16:01 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Mar 2002 12:16:01 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83270 In article , pzm@mac.com says... > In article <3C8E8E48.560D4A3A@cogeco.ca>, Tien Yen > wrote: > > > ******** ******** wrote: > > > > > > Neil Franklin wrote in message > > > news:<6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>... > > > > > The most routinely > > > > > reviled people on this newsgroup are ******** ********, Sherilyn, and > > > > > me. > > > > > > > > They are also those people who have done everything possible to make > > > > themselves disliked. Reap what you sow. > > > > > > Prove it; please demonstrate where I've ever did anything other than > > > to ask "Please provide evidence that OOBEs are anything more than > > > delusions, > > > hallucinations, or outright lies." and then suffered an onslaught of > > > abuse for daring to question the "reality" of oobe's. I'm waiting... > > > > > > > > > > it has been named! > > and, lo, it has come > > Mr Silk must have been right for a change. Our names *are* incantations > for summoning demons. > > garrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsheri > lynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraill > ihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhil > liardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnyli > rehsdraillihnosirrag! Nope, sorry, nothing happening so far. Are you sure it's the right incantation? You haven't banished TOWCBN instead of summoning him? Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:21:17 -0000 Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3C8E8E48.560D4A3A@cogeco.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-1945.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news5.svr.pol.co.uk 1016021765 543 217.134.119.153 (13 Mar 2002 12:16:05 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Mar 2002 12:16:05 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83266 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org says... > In message-id , > pz wrote: > [...] > > > >Mr Silk must have been right for a change. Our names *are* incantations > >for summoning demons. > > > >garrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsheri > >lynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraill > >ihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhil > >liardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnyli > >rehsdraillihnosirrag! > > > Nah, if you want a really good incantation, try this one: > > bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronnton > nerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoo > hoordenenthurnuk Nope, still nothing. Perhaps if you try typing it with an Irish accent? Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uhenpgwa9.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3C8E8E48.560D4A3A@cogeco.ca> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw Lines: 49 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:28:59 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.112.40 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1016022539 206.146.112.40 (Wed, 13 Mar 2002 06:28:59 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 06:28:59 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed.it.ip-plus.net!news.it.ip-plus.net!news.it.colt.net!peernews2.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83170 In article , Ian H Spedding wrote: > In article , pzm@mac.com > says... > > In article <3C8E8E48.560D4A3A@cogeco.ca>, Tien Yen > > wrote: > > > > > ******** ******** wrote: > > > > > > > > Neil Franklin wrote in message > > > > news:<6uelisvyjk.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>... > > > > > > The most routinely > > > > > > reviled people on this newsgroup are ******** ********, Sherilyn, > > > > > > and > > > > > > me. > > > > > > > > > > They are also those people who have done everything possible to make > > > > > themselves disliked. Reap what you sow. > > > > > > > > Prove it; please demonstrate where I've ever did anything other than > > > > to ask "Please provide evidence that OOBEs are anything more than > > > > delusions, > > > > hallucinations, or outright lies." and then suffered an onslaught of > > > > abuse for daring to question the "reality" of oobe's. I'm waiting... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > it has been named! > > > and, lo, it has come > > > > Mr Silk must have been right for a change. Our names *are* incantations > > for summoning demons. > > > > garrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsheri > > lynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraill > > ihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhil > > liardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnyli > > rehsdraillihnosirrag! > > Nope, sorry, nothing happening so far. Are you sure it's the right > incantation? You haven't banished TOWCBN instead of summoning him? Hmmm. The last invocation does have his name backwards, so that could be it. -- pz ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020312144518.06778.00000173@mb-bh.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 31 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:21:45 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.11.38.219 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc03.gnilink.net 1016032905 63.11.38.219 (Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:21:45 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:21:45 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.esat.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc03.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83201 Dick Silk wrote in message news:20020312144518.06778.00000173@mb-bh.aol.com... > In article , pz > writes: > > >> And yes, the parties can become pretty wild, to the mainstream that is. > > > >Damn. I knew there was a reason to regret being an atheist. > > > > I KNEW there HAD to be a reason PZ was such an asshole... he has no God. > Ergo, he's a heartless, soul-less bastard. > > ah, it all makes sense now... Alright. This time I'm sticking up for him. I told him what my beliefs are, and he didn't treat me in a way that was offensive. Then you come along and become highly offensive, linking on your response to his response to me. I don't particularly care for that. Need I say more? Thank you. -- Trish ................. Perspective - Use it or Lose it. ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <20020312144519.06778.00000174@mb-bh.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 31 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:27:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.11.38.219 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc03.gnilink.net 1016033230 63.11.38.219 (Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:27:10 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 10:27:10 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!news-x2.support.nl!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc03.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83219 Dick Silk wrote in message news:20020312144519.06778.00000174@mb-bh.aol.com... > In article <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "The Countess" > writes: > > > > >And yes, the parties can become pretty wild, to the mainstream that is. > > > > ooooo! do tell, do tell !!! ;) > Sorry Richard, this is not the story of "O". Most of the groups I am involved in prefer to perform rituals skyclad. Naked, or at least partially so. This includes all shapes, sizes and forms .... and no one person is frowned upon or glorified for the state of their bodily condition. It's a way to free yourself from the constraints of the world around you ... and although I never thought I would do it, the first time I did, I never felt so free in my life. Instead of being judged by what you look like, it had the opposite effect. People were taken for who they are, not what they look like. Sorry. No big sex orgies. Hope I haven't disappointed you. -- Trish ................. Perspective - Use it or Lose it. ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:12:15 -0000 Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <20020312144519.06778.00000174@mb-bh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-2419.cheetah.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk 1016035623 6570 217.134.105.115 (13 Mar 2002 16:07:03 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Mar 2002 16:07:03 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!jfk3-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83274 In article , capuchin@gte.net says... > > Dick Silk wrote in message > news:20020312144519.06778.00000174@mb-bh.aol.com... > > In article <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "The Countess" > > writes: > > > > > > > >And yes, the parties can become pretty wild, to the mainstream that is. > > > > > > > ooooo! do tell, do tell !!! ;) > > > > Sorry Richard, this is not the story of "O". Most of the groups I am > involved in prefer to perform rituals skyclad. Naked, or at least partially > so. This includes all shapes, sizes and forms .... and no one person is > frowned upon or glorified for the state of their bodily condition. It's a > way to free yourself from the constraints of the world around you ... and > although I never thought I would do it, the first time I did, I never felt > so free in my life. Instead of being judged by what you look like, it had > the opposite effect. People were taken for who they are, not what they look > like. > > Sorry. No big sex orgies. Hope I haven't disappointed you. Oh, dear. It all sounds rather prim - a bit like those naturist movies from the '50s with groups of wholesome nudists playing badminton or volleyball on the lawn. Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: "BD" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020312144526.06778.00000180@mb-bh.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 44 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:25:34 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.198.66 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mhtc.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 1016028889 216.180.198.66 (Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:14:49 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:14:49 EST Organization: MHTC Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!opentransit.net!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83191 pz wrote in message ... >In article <20020312144526.06778.00000180@mb-bh.aol.com>, > silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) wrote: > >> In article , Janice >> writes: >> >> >> UNbelieveable! I went to the trouble of creating a flame thread >> >> so that flames could be thrown willy nilly within a contained area >> >> (like a wizard's pit) and now no one wants to insult anybody!? >> >> gheesh!! >> > >> >LOL, it was a nice idea in principle, but once raging, flames are >> >not always so easily contained. Better for everyone just to cool >> >down a bit, I think, and focus on the subject not the personality >> >issues for a while. >> > >> >> NONSENSE! I have thrown my 12th level FIREBALL spell at >> you -- roll your saving throw... :) what additional defenses do you >> have against magic and/or fire? (Tell the dungeon master, so your >> total damage may be assessed.) > >The dungeon master? That would be me. > >Sorry, Mr Silk. After cross-indexing your skill level with your >intelligence, I rolled to determine the force of your fireball. I'm >afraid that all you managed to do was make a squeaky little fart that >Janice didn't even notice. > >You now need to roll *your* saving throw to determine whether you >soiled your loincloth. > >-- >pz ROTFLMAO!!! (I loved the "squeaky little fart" part!) Hahaha! :) BD ###### From: "BD" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <1f8wi9f.cxge676w9hqdN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <20020312144515.06778.00000172@mb-bh.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 38 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:30:15 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.198.66 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mhtc.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 1016029169 216.180.198.66 (Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:19:29 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:19:29 EST Organization: MHTC Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83195 Dick Silk wrote in message <20020312144515.06778.00000172@mb-bh.aol.com>... >In article <1f8wi9f.cxge676w9hqdN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net>, >spnak@petitNOTmorte.net (jfred) writes: > >Ian>If water is polluted then then the immediate solution is to filter it >rather than complain about the pollution > >ds>> Ian, that's got to be the first thing you've posted that I have vehemently >disagreed with. >ds>> even tho this is a flame-thread, I'll hold my tongue. ... For now... > >Ian>I await your pleasure. > >jf?> So you're challenging Dick to a duel? > >ian?> Of wits? Of course. > >jf>What kind of odds can I get on this one > >none: I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. > >:) > Just what color *is* the sky there in your world, Dick? BD ###### From: "BD" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <2002030823420275767@zetnet.co.uk> <20020309163108.02786.00000145@mb-mu.aol.com> <20020310083106.18191.00000115@mb-mh.aol.com> <1f8wi9f.cxge676w9hqdN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <20020312144515.06778.00000172@mb-bh.aol.com> <1f8xv0p.1i4nzck131y3nkN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 53 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:32:13 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.198.66 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mhtc.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 1016029287 216.180.198.66 (Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:21:27 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:21:27 EST Organization: MHTC Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!opentransit.net!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83190 jfred wrote in message <1f8xv0p.1i4nzck131y3nkN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net>... >Dick Silk wrote: > >> In article <1f8wi9f.cxge676w9hqdN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net>, >> spnak@petitNOTmorte.net (jfred) writes: >> >> Ian>If water is polluted then then the immediate solution is to filter it >> rather than complain about the pollution >> >> ds>> Ian, that's got to be the first thing you've posted that I have >> dvehemently isagreed with. >> ds>> even tho this is a flame-thread, I'll hold my tongue. ... For now... >> >> Ian>I await your pleasure. >> >> jf?> So you're challenging Dick to a duel? >> >> ian?> Of wits? Of course. >> >> jf>What kind of odds can I get on this one >> >> none: I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. >> >> :) > >Dick, I would appreciate it if you didn't goof up the attributions, as >you have done above. You've attributed to me something that I did not >say. Further, your habit of adding initials to a message makes it hard >to read both in a client that uses color coding to distinguish between >one person and another, and for a person who is used to the accepted >conventions on usenet for quoting and replying. I assume you are trying >to add to the clarity of the message, but in fact, you're doing quite >the opposite. > >Also, on some newsgroups, squirreling around with attributions as you do >is the equivalent of wearing a huge, blinking, neon hat that says "I'm a >kOoK! Do not take me seriously!" A relative handful of usenet posters >have been known to do the same thing, and 99% of them are certifiable. > >HTH! :) > >-- >*jfred -- Habent Abdenda Omnes Praeter Me ac Simiam Meam* Well......... BD ###### From: "BD" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020312144526.06778.00000181@mb-bh.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 28 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:41:39 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.198.66 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mhtc.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 1016029853 216.180.198.66 (Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:53 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:30:53 EST Organization: MHTC Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83217 Dick Silk wrote in message <20020312144526.06778.00000181@mb-bh.aol.com>... >In article , Janice > writes: > >>I usually make an effort to avoid referring to Sherilyn as *either* he or she. >:) > >that's a very considerate approach on your part. I have also seen >trans-gendered individuals refered to simply using the pronoun : "s/he". >Thus, when speaking of Sherilyn's wardrobe, one might say s/he has a wide >selection to choose from. Well, I wouldn't say a "wide" selection. She seems to be totally lacking anything of a red fleece-like material, with short sleeves stopping halfway between the wrists and the elbows! :) BD ###### Lines: 21 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 13 Mar 2002 16:56:50 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ms) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020313115650.07895.00000277@mb-ms.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83141 In article , pz writes: >> > garrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsheri >> > lynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraill >> > ihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhil >> > liardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnyli >> > rehsdraillihnosirrag! >> >> Nope, sorry, nothing happening so far. Are you sure it's the right >> incantation? You haven't banished TOWCBN instead of summoning him? > >Hmmm. The last invocation does have his name backwards, so that could be >it. the actual problem is that the names were mirrored, hence, the summoning effect was cancelled. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 25 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 13 Mar 2002 16:56:51 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ms) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020313115651.07895.00000278@mb-ms.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83147 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) writes: pz: >>Mr Silk must have been right for a change. Our names *are* incantations for summoning demons. >> >>garrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsheri >>lynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraill >>ihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhil >>liardsherilynpzzpnylirehsdraillihnosirraggarrisonhilliardsherilynpzzpnyli >>rehsdraillihnosirrag! >Nah, if you want a really good incantation, try this one: > >bababadalgharaghtakamminarronnkonnbronnton >nerronntuonnthunntrovarrhounawnskawntoohoo >hoordenenthurnuk no fair using gods from the necronomicon... To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 13 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 13 Mar 2002 16:56:53 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ms) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020313115653.07895.00000280@mb-ms.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83133 In article , garrison@efn.org (Garrison Hilliard) writes: >"Please provide evidence that OOBEs are anything more than delusions, hallucinations, or outright lies." prove that they aren't. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 21 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 13 Mar 2002 16:56:53 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ms) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020313115653.07895.00000279@mb-ms.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83151 In article , "dorothy" writes: >> > >> > >> > it has been named! >> > and, lo, it has come >> >> Freakin' hell! He invoked the Name! > >Blast! Wot a predictable fellow! > Wot?! did he say IT ?? Oh no! I said IT!! Oh bloody 'ell, I've said IT again!!! .... To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 21 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 13 Mar 2002 16:56:54 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ms) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020313115654.07895.00000281@mb-ms.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83137 In article , Janice writes: >silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > >> NONSENSE! I have thrown my 12th level FIREBALL spell at you >-- >> roll your saving throw... :) >> what additional defenses do you have against magic and/or fire? (Tell the >> dungeon master, so your total damage may be assessed.) > > >"Shun magic! Shun the appearance of magic! Shun everything, and then >shun shunning!"--The Grand Inquisitor of Zork "shun thee and the horse and buggy thou rode in on..." (amish curse?) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 33 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 13 Mar 2002 16:56:56 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ms) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020313115656.07895.00000282@mb-ms.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83146 In article , pz writes: J: >>>LOL, it was a nice idea in principle, but once raging, flames are not always so easily contained. Better for everyone just to cool down a bit, I think, and focus on the subject not the personality issues for a while. ds: >> NONSENSE! I have thrown my 12th level FIREBALL spell at >> you -- roll your saving throw... :) what additional defenses do you >> have against magic and/or fire? (Tell the dungeon master, so your >> total damage may be assessed.) >The dungeon master? That would be me. >Sorry, Mr Silk. After cross-indexing your skill level with your >intelligence, I rolled to determine the force of your fireball. I'm >afraid that all you managed to do was make a squeaky little fart that >Janice didn't even notice. >You now need to roll *your* saving throw to determine whether you >soiled your loincloth. no, you're not the DM, but rather a pit fiend. I roll to disbelieve your lies. SAVED! HA! I once did play with a certain Ned McNaughton, who had the bizarre habit of declaring "I put on *yet another* loincloth" To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 26 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 13 Mar 2002 16:57:05 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ms) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020313115705.07895.00000283@mb-ms.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83136 In article , pz writes: >> Don't give up until he's gone! we need more intelligent folk like >> yourself who can verbalize their complaints as clearly as you do. > >You mean, "incompetent whiners who can mangle and misinterpret posts as >thoroughly as he does". You seem to have some skill in that regard >yourself. > you see, pz, normally I really do like to refrain from insulting anyone. I prefer to speak only positives. However, since this is a flame thread, I feel incredibly free to state in all honesty what a royal twit I think you truly are. You're the kind of asshole who around here gets made into a prosecuting attorney. You have NO regard for the truth. You only have your agenda, and you will fuck over anyone who gets in your way of accomplishing it. You have that uncanny knack for stating your thoughts in just such a way as to piss off even the most cautious of readers. Your words are barbed with dripping poisons of scorn and derision. My words, on the other hand, are merely blatant insults with no hidden meanings, barbs, nor twists. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 29 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 13 Mar 2002 16:57:06 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ms) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020313115706.07895.00000284@mb-ms.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83140 In article , pz writes: >> >> I'd say that the strength or weakness of one's own character, or the >> flaws of their own thought processes, has nothing or very little to >> do with whatever religion they're professing. Many Christians happen >> to be homeless, recovering alcholics for example. It's only because >> they found Christian aid in the relief missions rather than covens. >> (That's a poor example, sorry.) What I guess I should say is: if >> your friend had been a Christian rather than a pagan or witch, he'd >> have stated that he had prayed to God for money, and used that same >> example as reason to believe that God would provide all he needed, >> and then dropped out of college just the same. > >Well, yes. I'm an atheist, remember? I see no particular virtue in >either christianity or wicca, and figure he would have been just as >self-destructive had he been christian, moslem, hindu, or witch. > um... excuse me... did HELL just FREEZE OVER??? I could have distinctly detected an AGREEMENT between myself and pz! what's next? armageddon?? To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 81 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 13 Mar 2002 16:57:07 GMT References: <1f8xv0p.1i4nzck131y3nkN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ms) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020313115707.07895.00000285@mb-ms.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83145 normally, I LOATHE requoting an entire post, but because it's necessary... please page down to the bottom... In article <1f8xv0p.1i4nzck131y3nkN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net>, spnak@petitNOTmorte.net (jfred) writes: >Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) >From: spnak@petitNOTmorte.net (jfred) >Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:48:12 -0500 > >Dick Silk wrote: > >> In article <1f8wi9f.cxge676w9hqdN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net>, >> spnak@petitNOTmorte.net (jfred) writes: >> >> Ian>If water is polluted then then the immediate solution is to filter it >> rather than complain about the pollution >> >> ds>> Ian, that's got to be the first thing you've posted that I have >> dvehemently isagreed with. >> ds>> even tho this is a flame-thread, I'll hold my tongue. ... For now... >> >> Ian>I await your pleasure. >> >> jf?> So you're challenging Dick to a duel? >> >> ian?> Of wits? Of course. >> >> jf>What kind of odds can I get on this one >> >> none: I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed opponent. >> >> :) > >Dick, I would appreciate it if you didn't goof up the attributions, as >you have done above. You've attributed to me something that I did not >say. if you'll look closely (I don't know if your reader shows this or not, but...) >> In article <1f8wi9f.cxge676w9hqdN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net>, >> spnak@petitNOTmorte.net (jfred) writes: >> >> Ian>If water is polluted then then the immediate solution is to filter it I have "Ian>If water" listed, as I believe that to be the person who said that. as to you, I don't have you requoted ANYWHERE, but I *might* have mislabeled someone, thus: >> jf?> So you're challenging Dick to a duel? note the question mark "?" following jf, as I don't know precisely if jf said that or not. same as the next line: >> ian?> Of wits? Of course. >> jf>What kind of odds can I get on this one the line above, I believe, is the only quote I could state with certainty, thus no ? beside his name. > Further, your habit of adding initials to a message makes it hard >to read both in a client that uses color coding to distinguish between >one person and another, and for a person who is used to the accepted >conventions on usenet for quoting and replying. I assume you are trying >to add to the clarity of the message, but in fact, you're doing quite >the opposite. "sorry, MAC"... :) (said with a slight amount of evil glee from a PC user...) in self-defense, the best I can say is that at least I TRIM the posts as much as possible. and I *do* try to keep attributes or initials correct, but I make NO effort to adjust for color-coded news readers. Never seen one, other than back in the days of OLX and BBS's. those were SOOO cool ! To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 16 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 13 Mar 2002 16:57:08 GMT References: <3c8e6559.13486463@news.ntlworld.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ms) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020313115708.07895.00000286@mb-ms.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83150 In article <3c8e6559.13486463@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) writes: >Neil lives in Switzerland, Richard, and has done for many years. >How is your French, German and Italian these days? I'll bet that >Neil's is better. I'll agree to that in a heartbeat! I'd even go so far as to say his English is better than my English! :) which is why the abnormal usage of the articles 'a' and 'an' were so -- noticeable. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020313115705.07895.00000283@mb-ms.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 15 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:09:37 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:11:35 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!btnet-peer1!btnet!newsfeeds-atl2!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83293 "Dick Silk" wrote in message news:20020313115705.07895.00000283@mb-ms.aol.com... > In article , pz > > Your words are barbed with dripping poisons > of scorn and derision. My words, on the other hand, are merely blatant insults > with no hidden meanings, barbs, nor twists. And this makes you better? ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:25:04 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <20020312144526.06778.00000180@mb-bh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-874.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!uninett.no!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83269 In article , bdyager@mhtc.net says... > > pz wrote in message ... > ROTFLMAO!!! (I loved the "squeaky little fart" part!) Hahaha! :) Cracked me up too. And this from a man with no sense of humor! -- It hurts to admit when you make mistakes. But when they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### Lines: 14 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 13 Mar 2002 17:57:40 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-fu) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020313125740.22995.00000143@mb-fu.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83123 In article , "The Countess" writes: >People were taken for who they are, not what they look like. > >Sorry. No big sex orgies. Hope I haven't disappointed you. not at all :) I was just hoping you'd be a bit more descriptive. and you were. thanks :) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020312144526.06778.00000181@mb-bh.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 33 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 18:00:54 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.24.243.140 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc02.gnilink.net 1016042454 63.24.243.140 (Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:00:54 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 13:00:54 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc02.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83233 BD wrote in message news:xoJj8.2314$0e1.387531@cletus.bright.net... > > Dick Silk wrote in message <20020312144526.06778.00000181@mb-bh.aol.com>... > >In article , Janice > > writes: > > > >>I usually make an effort to avoid referring to Sherilyn as *either* he or > she. > >:) > > > >that's a very considerate approach on your part. I have also seen > >trans-gendered individuals refered to simply using the pronoun : "s/he". > >Thus, when speaking of Sherilyn's wardrobe, one might say s/he has a wide > >selection to choose from. > > > > Well, I wouldn't say a "wide" selection. She seems to be totally lacking > anything of a red fleece-like material, with short sleeves stopping halfway > between the wrists and the elbows! :) > > BD Hahaha. BD quit ticklin me! : ) ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <20020312144519.06778.00000174@mb-bh.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 57 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: <6XPj8.9306$dn2.7321@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 21:57:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.24.243.150 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc02.gnilink.net 1016056642 63.24.243.150 (Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:57:22 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:57:22 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!204.71.34.15!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone2.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc02.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83308 Ian H Spedding wrote in message news:MPG.16f988fceeb2f8549897a7@news.freeserve.com... > In article , capuchin@gte.net > says... > > > > Dick Silk wrote in message > > news:20020312144519.06778.00000174@mb-bh.aol.com... > > > In article <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net>, "The Countess" > > > writes: > > > > > > > > > > >And yes, the parties can become pretty wild, to the mainstream that is. > > > > > > > > > > ooooo! do tell, do tell !!! ;) > > > > > > > Sorry Richard, this is not the story of "O". Most of the groups I am > > involved in prefer to perform rituals skyclad. Naked, or at least partially > > so. This includes all shapes, sizes and forms .... and no one person is > > frowned upon or glorified for the state of their bodily condition. It's a > > way to free yourself from the constraints of the world around you ... and > > although I never thought I would do it, the first time I did, I never felt > > so free in my life. Instead of being judged by what you look like, it had > > the opposite effect. People were taken for who they are, not what they look > > like. > > > > Sorry. No big sex orgies. Hope I haven't disappointed you. > > Oh, dear. It all sounds rather prim - a bit like those naturist > movies from the '50s with groups of wholesome nudists playing > badminton or volleyball on the lawn. No badminton or volleyball. More like a bonfire, with dancers ... and drummers .... after ritual there's plenty of food and drink .... and a dip in the hot tub or pool if you're up to it. I met my current boyfriend at the Beltane festivities last May. -- Namaste ...... .............. Trish (Perspective - Use it or Lose it.) ###### From: "BD" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020313115653.07895.00000280@mb-ms.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 32 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 15:45:33 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.198.46 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mhtc.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 1016055289 216.180.198.46 (Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:34:49 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 16:34:49 EST Organization: MHTC Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83517 Dick Silk wrote in message <20020313115653.07895.00000280@mb-ms.aol.com>... >In article , garrison@efn.org >(Garrison Hilliard) writes: > >>"Please provide evidence that OOBEs are anything more than delusions, >hallucinations, or outright lies." > >prove that they aren't. > I'll save GH the trouble... evidently DS has fallen into the simplest of traps, here. One which we grew tired of ages ago in this NG, battling TOWCBN. That being the #1 rule, Dick: You cannot prove a negative. Period. BD > > >To send personal e-mail, please write to: >richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. >All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 23 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 14 Mar 2002 04:21:15 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ca) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83388 In article , "BD" writes: >I'll save GH the trouble... evidently DS has fallen into the simplest of >traps, here. One which we grew tired of ages ago in this NG, battling >TOWCBN. That being the #1 rule, Dick: > >You cannot prove a negative. Period. > -1= -1. that can be proven. so can any other negative. Besides which, your statement "you cannot prove a negative" (according to your own statement) cannot be proven, therefore it does not hold water. Sheesh! that was simple enough. NEXT !! upon deeper analysis, the fact that it cannot be proven proves it cannot be proven, therefore it proves itself. Quite a beautiful paradox, really :) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 32 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:30:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.24.241.11 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1016152250 63.24.241.11 (Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:30:50 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 19:30:50 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83557 Dick Silk wrote in message news:20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com... > In article , "BD" > writes: > > >I'll save GH the trouble... evidently DS has fallen into the simplest of > >traps, here. One which we grew tired of ages ago in this NG, battling > >TOWCBN. That being the #1 rule, Dick: > > > >You cannot prove a negative. Period. > > > > -1= -1. that can be proven. so can any other negative. > > Besides which, your statement "you cannot prove a negative" (according to your > own statement) cannot be proven, therefore it does not hold water. Sheesh! > that was simple enough. NEXT !! > > upon deeper analysis, the fact that it cannot be proven proves it cannot be > proven, therefore it proves itself. Quite a beautiful paradox, really :) > What??? ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com> <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 39 Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:53:24 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016153604 80.1.123.25 (Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:53:24 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 00:53:24 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83347 In message-id <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, The Countess wrote: > > > >Dick Silk wrote in message >news:20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com... >> In article , "BD" > >> writes: >> >> >I'll save GH the trouble... evidently DS has fallen into the simplest of >> >traps, here. One which we grew tired of ages ago in this NG, battling >> >TOWCBN. That being the #1 rule, Dick: >> > >> >You cannot prove a negative. Period. >> > >> [rant snipped for space] > >What??? > His argument is tripe, but he's on the right track. BD argues that you cannot prove a negative (when Garrison asks for evidence that OOBEs are anything other than etc). Actually, you _can prove a negative; I could prove that my coffee mug is not yellow by showing it to you. If you observed that it wasn't yellow, then I would have proven, as far as such things are knowable, what I set out to prove. That doesn't mean that _all_ negative statements can be proven, it simply means that it is incorrect to claim that you cannot prove a negative. The term "you cannot prove a negative" possibly originally had some legitimate use, but that original meaning, if it existed, seems to have fallen into disuse, and we're left with a common misunderstanding. -- Sherilyn ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 09:56:03 -0000 Lines: 59 Message-ID: References: <20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com> <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-89.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk 1016185844 111 217.134.112.89 (15 Mar 2002 09:50:44 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Mar 2002 09:50:44 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!priapus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!newsxfer.visi.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83619 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org says... > In message-id <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, > The Countess wrote: > > > > > > > >Dick Silk wrote in message > >news:20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com... > >> In article , "BD" > > > >> writes: > >> > >> >I'll save GH the trouble... evidently DS has fallen into the simplest of > >> >traps, here. One which we grew tired of ages ago in this NG, battling > >> >TOWCBN. That being the #1 rule, Dick: > >> > > >> >You cannot prove a negative. Period. > >> > > >> > [rant snipped for space] > > > >What??? > > > His argument is tripe, but he's on the right track. BD argues that you > cannot prove a negative (when Garrison asks for evidence that OOBEs are > anything other than etc). > > Actually, you _can prove a negative; I could prove that my coffee mug is > not yellow by showing it to you. If you observed that it wasn't yellow, > then I would have proven, as far as such things are knowable, what I set > out to prove. > > That doesn't mean that _all_ negative statements can be proven, it simply > means that it is incorrect to claim that you cannot prove a negative. > > The term "you cannot prove a negative" possibly originally had some > legitimate use, but that original meaning, if it existed, seems to have > fallen into disuse, and we're left with a common misunderstanding. IIRC, the problem lies in not distinguishing between particular and universal negatives. As you rightly point out, it is easy to prove a particular negative such as your coffee cup example. But, to take an example I remember from a discussion about this, supposing I claim that there are not, nor have there ever been, nor will there ever be green penguins at the North Pole. In logic, that is a universal proposition and it is plainly impossible to prove. I could mount an expedition to the North Pole and check the penguins that live there today but there is no way for me to check past or future penguins. However, the discovery of just one green penguin at the North Pole means it is easy to _disprove_ such a claim. Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com> <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 68 Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:49:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016189374 80.1.123.25 (Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:49:34 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:49:34 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83368 In message-id , Ian H Spedding wrote: >In article , >sherilyn@suespammers.org says... >> In message-id <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, >> The Countess wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >Dick Silk wrote in message >> >news:20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com... >> >> In article , "BD" >> > >> >> writes: >> >> >> >> >I'll save GH the trouble... evidently DS has fallen into the simplest of >> >> >traps, here. One which we grew tired of ages ago in this NG, battling >> >> >TOWCBN. That being the #1 rule, Dick: >> >> > >> >> >You cannot prove a negative. Period. >> >> > >> >> >> [rant snipped for space] >> > >> >What??? >> > >> His argument is tripe, but he's on the right track. BD argues that you >> cannot prove a negative (when Garrison asks for evidence that OOBEs are >> anything other than etc). >> >> Actually, you _can prove a negative; I could prove that my coffee mug is >> not yellow by showing it to you. If you observed that it wasn't yellow, >> then I would have proven, as far as such things are knowable, what I set >> out to prove. >> >> That doesn't mean that _all_ negative statements can be proven, it simply >> means that it is incorrect to claim that you cannot prove a negative. >> >> The term "you cannot prove a negative" possibly originally had some >> legitimate use, but that original meaning, if it existed, seems to have >> fallen into disuse, and we're left with a common misunderstanding. > >IIRC, the problem lies in not distinguishing between particular and >universal negatives. As you rightly point out, it is easy to prove a >particular negative such as your coffee cup example. > >But, to take an example I remember from a discussion about this, >supposing I claim that there are not, nor have there ever been, nor >will there ever be green penguins at the North Pole. In logic, that >is a universal proposition and it is plainly impossible to prove. I >could mount an expedition to the North Pole and check the penguins >that live there today but there is no way for me to check past or >future penguins. However, the discovery of just one green penguin at >the North Pole means it is easy to _disprove_ such a claim. > Some universal negatives are also subject to disproof. Wiles' proof of Fermat's Last Theorem is a recent example that I like to cite, but mathematics is full of stuff like this. The problem with many "universals" is that they're not universal so much as improperly defined. If you define "green penguin" and "north pole" adequately, then you can prove the nonexistence of green penguins at the North Pole by the simple act of stationing an observer at the North Pole and waiting until the Earth's North Pole ceases to exist, by which time the penguins will either have made an appearance, or not. That kind of proof isn't practicable for a lot of reasons, but it would be incorrect to state that it's a logical impossibility. -- Sherilyn ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:50:35 -0000 Lines: 81 Message-ID: References: <20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com> <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-2915.cheetah.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk 1016196320 14366 217.134.107.99 (15 Mar 2002 12:45:20 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Mar 2002 12:45:20 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83630 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org says... > In message-id , > Ian H Spedding wrote: > >In article , > >sherilyn@suespammers.org says... > >> In message-id <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, > >> The Countess wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >Dick Silk wrote in message > >> >news:20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com... > >> >> In article , "BD" > >> > > >> >> writes: > >> >> > >> >> >I'll save GH the trouble... evidently DS has fallen into the simplest of > >> >> >traps, here. One which we grew tired of ages ago in this NG, battling > >> >> >TOWCBN. That being the #1 rule, Dick: > >> >> > > >> >> >You cannot prove a negative. Period. > >> >> > > >> >> > >> [rant snipped for space] > >> > > >> >What??? > >> > > >> His argument is tripe, but he's on the right track. BD argues that you > >> cannot prove a negative (when Garrison asks for evidence that OOBEs are > >> anything other than etc). > >> > >> Actually, you _can prove a negative; I could prove that my coffee mug is > >> not yellow by showing it to you. If you observed that it wasn't yellow, > >> then I would have proven, as far as such things are knowable, what I set > >> out to prove. > >> > >> That doesn't mean that _all_ negative statements can be proven, it simply > >> means that it is incorrect to claim that you cannot prove a negative. > >> > >> The term "you cannot prove a negative" possibly originally had some > >> legitimate use, but that original meaning, if it existed, seems to have > >> fallen into disuse, and we're left with a common misunderstanding. > > > >IIRC, the problem lies in not distinguishing between particular and > >universal negatives. As you rightly point out, it is easy to prove a > >particular negative such as your coffee cup example. > > > >But, to take an example I remember from a discussion about this, > >supposing I claim that there are not, nor have there ever been, nor > >will there ever be green penguins at the North Pole. In logic, that > >is a universal proposition and it is plainly impossible to prove. I > >could mount an expedition to the North Pole and check the penguins > >that live there today but there is no way for me to check past or > >future penguins. However, the discovery of just one green penguin at > >the North Pole means it is easy to _disprove_ such a claim. > > > Some universal negatives are also subject to disproof. Wiles' proof of > Fermat's Last Theorem is a recent example that I like to cite, but > mathematics is full of stuff like this. The problem with many > "universals" is that they're not universal so much as improperly defined. > If you define "green penguin" and "north pole" adequately, then you can > prove the nonexistence of green penguins at the North Pole by the > simple act of stationing an observer at the North Pole and waiting until > the Earth's North Pole ceases to exist, by which time the penguins will > either have made an appearance, or not. That kind of proof isn't > practicable for a lot of reasons, but it would be incorrect to state > that it's a logical impossibility. Agreed, impracticable or practically impossible to prove is what I meant. I also found this article which might be of interest: Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com> <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 33 Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:32:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016199154 80.1.123.25 (Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:32:34 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 13:32:34 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!fr.colt.net!peernews2.colt.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83375 In message-id , Ian H Spedding wrote: >In article , >sherilyn@suespammers.org says... [...] >> > >> Some universal negatives are also subject to disproof. Wiles' proof of >> Fermat's Last Theorem is a recent example that I like to cite, but >> mathematics is full of stuff like this. The problem with many >> "universals" is that they're not universal so much as improperly defined. >> If you define "green penguin" and "north pole" adequately, then you can >> prove the nonexistence of green penguins at the North Pole by the >> simple act of stationing an observer at the North Pole and waiting until >> the Earth's North Pole ceases to exist, by which time the penguins will >> either have made an appearance, or not. That kind of proof isn't >> practicable for a lot of reasons, but it would be incorrect to state >> that it's a logical impossibility. > >Agreed, impracticable or practically impossible to prove is what I >meant. Okay, I can agree with that. It's a profession of human limits rather than a logical argument. > >I also found this article which might be of interest: > > > Yep, I noticed it last week during the afp thread on proving a negative. -- Sherilyn ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 12:51:31 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com> <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-163.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83607 In article , harry@spedding53.fsnet.co.uk says... > But, to take an example I remember from a discussion about this, > supposing I claim that there are not, nor have there ever been, nor > will there ever be green penguins at the North Pole. In logic, that > is a universal proposition and it is plainly impossible to prove. I > could mount an expedition to the North Pole and check the penguins > that live there today but there is no way for me to check past or > future penguins. However, the discovery of just one green penguin at > the North Pole means it is easy to _disprove_ such a claim. I'd be excited to find *any* penguins at the North Pole, considering that they are native to the southern hemisphere. ;-) -- It hurts to admit when you make mistakes. But when they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: "BD" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com> <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 45 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:37:14 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.198.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mhtc.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 1016295978 216.180.198.196 (Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:26:18 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:26:18 EST Organization: MHTC Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83752 Sherilyn wrote in message ... >In message-id <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, >The Countess wrote: >> >> >> >>Dick Silk wrote in message >>news:20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com... >>> In article , "BD" >> >>> writes: >>> >>> >I'll save GH the trouble... evidently DS has fallen into the simplest of >>> >traps, here. One which we grew tired of ages ago in this NG, battling >>> >TOWCBN. That being the #1 rule, Dick: >>> > >>> >You cannot prove a negative. Period. >>> > >>> >[rant snipped for space] >> >>What??? >> >His argument is tripe, but he's on the right track. BD argues that you >cannot prove a negative (when Garrison asks for evidence that OOBEs are >anything other than etc). Ahemm... you took the wrong fork in the road, Sherilyn. My statement was in reply to Dick's post (which you snipped!), ie: "prove that they aren't". BD ###### From: "BD" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com> <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 72 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: <5qKk8.2592$0e1.451666@cletus.bright.net> Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 10:40:49 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.198.196 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mhtc.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 1016296193 216.180.198.196 (Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:29:53 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 11:29:53 EST Organization: MHTC Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83749 Ian H Spedding wrote in message ... >In article , >sherilyn@suespammers.org says... >> In message-id <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, >> The Countess wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> >Dick Silk wrote in message >> >news:20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com... >> >> In article , "BD" >> > >> >> writes: >> >> >> >> >I'll save GH the trouble... evidently DS has fallen into the simplest of >> >> >traps, here. One which we grew tired of ages ago in this NG, battling >> >> >TOWCBN. That being the #1 rule, Dick: >> >> > >> >> >You cannot prove a negative. Period. >> >> > >> >> >> [rant snipped for space] >> > >> >What??? >> > >> His argument is tripe, but he's on the right track. BD argues that you >> cannot prove a negative (when Garrison asks for evidence that OOBEs are >> anything other than etc). >> >> Actually, you _can prove a negative; I could prove that my coffee mug is >> not yellow by showing it to you. If you observed that it wasn't yellow, >> then I would have proven, as far as such things are knowable, what I set >> out to prove. >> >> That doesn't mean that _all_ negative statements can be proven, it simply >> means that it is incorrect to claim that you cannot prove a negative. >> >> The term "you cannot prove a negative" possibly originally had some >> legitimate use, but that original meaning, if it existed, seems to have >> fallen into disuse, and we're left with a common misunderstanding. > >IIRC, the problem lies in not distinguishing between particular and >universal negatives. As you rightly point out, it is easy to prove a >particular negative such as your coffee cup example. > >But, to take an example I remember from a discussion about this, >supposing I claim that there are not, nor have there ever been, nor >will there ever be green penguins at the North Pole. In logic, that >is a universal proposition and it is plainly impossible to prove. I >could mount an expedition to the North Pole and check the penguins >that live there today but there is no way for me to check past or >future penguins. However, the discovery of just one green penguin at >the North Pole means it is easy to _disprove_ such a claim. > >Ian Thank you, Ian. But of course, Sherilyn *knew* what I meant, as well. She just likes twisting... misinterpretting... playing word-games, etc. Sheesh. BD ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 19:06:12 -0000 Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com> <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-1639.chimpanzee.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk 1016305247 19932 217.134.118.103 (16 Mar 2002 19:00:47 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Mar 2002 19:00:47 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83784 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article , > harry@spedding53.fsnet.co.uk says... > > > But, to take an example I remember from a discussion about this, > > supposing I claim that there are not, nor have there ever been, nor > > will there ever be green penguins at the North Pole. In logic, that > > is a universal proposition and it is plainly impossible to prove. I > > could mount an expedition to the North Pole and check the penguins > > that live there today but there is no way for me to check past or > > future penguins. However, the discovery of just one green penguin at > > the North Pole means it is easy to _disprove_ such a claim. > > I'd be excited to find *any* penguins at the North Pole, considering that > they are native to the southern hemisphere. ;-) Don't blame me. I didn't think up the story. :) Anyway, I knew that (once you reminded me). Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com> <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 26 Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:29:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news11-gui.server.ntli.net 1016314198 80.1.123.25 (Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:29:58 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 21:29:58 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!btnet-peer1!btnet-peer0!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news11-gui.server.ntli.net.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83786 In message-id , Ian H Spedding wrote: >In article , not-me@not- >here.net says... >> In article , >> harry@spedding53.fsnet.co.uk says... >> >> > But, to take an example I remember from a discussion about this, >> > supposing I claim that there are not, nor have there ever been, nor >> > will there ever be green penguins at the North Pole. In logic, that >> > is a universal proposition and it is plainly impossible to prove. I >> > could mount an expedition to the North Pole and check the penguins >> > that live there today but there is no way for me to check past or >> > future penguins. However, the discovery of just one green penguin at >> > the North Pole means it is easy to _disprove_ such a claim. >> >> I'd be excited to find *any* penguins at the North Pole, considering that >> they are native to the southern hemisphere. ;-) > >Don't blame me. I didn't think up the story. :) > >Anyway, I knew that (once you reminded me). > Better station an observer there, just in case. -- Sherilyn "not a colorblind one" ###### From: nada@nada.ca (leo) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:06:56 GMT Organization: Lynx Communications Inc. Lines: 28 Message-ID: <3c93ec1c.11174126@news.lynx.net> References: <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <20020312144518.06778.00000173@mb-bh.aol.com> <6atj8.48505$Yd.2775272@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <20020312173104.12419.00000242@mb-ml.aol.com> <1f8z7yn.19jml091y5x01mN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: news1.lynx.bc.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: horsefly.nf.net 1016327323 21145 216.18.70.63 (17 Mar 2002 01:08:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@nf.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 01:08:43 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 Cache-Post-Path: news1.lynx.bc.ca!unknown@vanip-128-108.eseenet.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.uunet.ca!news.nf.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83824 On Wed, 13 Mar 2002 09:19:17 -0500, spnak@petitNOTmorte.net (jfred) wrote: >Dick Silk wrote: > >> In article <6atj8.48505$Yd.2775272@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, "lorz" >> writes: >> >> >So your god tells you, "Thou shall judge"? >> >> absolutely! >> 1st Corinthians, Chapter 2, vs 15: >> >> 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged >> of no man. > ><> > >Matthew 7:1: Judge not, that ye be not judged. Like, I thought Michael Stipe was wot wrote that... [peasant leo nodding off under an oak tree downwind from the castle, mouth watering, smelling roast chicken] > >Romans 14:4: Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? ###### From: garrison@efn.org (Garrison Hilliard) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 16 Mar 2002 18:16:53 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: <20020307131121.12419.00000034@mb-ml.aol.com> <6ueliuvhrv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.68.43.19 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1016331413 9371 127.0.0.1 (17 Mar 2002 02:16:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Mar 2002 02:16:53 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-fra.pop.de!isdnet!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83901 pz wrote in message news:... > The funny thing is that the skeptics are in exactly the same position: > day after day, we see woo-woos posting the most outrageous bilge, stuff > that contradicts our worldview and is just as obnoxious to us as common > sense, materialism, and the scientific method are to you. Yet you don't > see us squalling that people must be shut down, that you are 'grinding > on our nerves', or that only One Way of Thinking is allowed. > > I wonder why? > > Could it be because we're naturally more tolerant and open-minded? Yes... we're also, for the most part, brighter, better-looking, and more fun at parties. :-) > Nah. Impossible. Thw woo-woo's may say that, but it's true... the skeptics are more open to questioning and analyzing things. That's just the way it goes, I guess. > Could it be because our opinions are supported by reason and evidence, > giving us the self-confidence you lack? You could be on to something there! > I'm sure that couldn't possibly be it, could it? As Mr. Peavey used to say... "Well, I wouldn't say that." p.s. What, there's no Gildersleeve fans here? ;-) ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 16 Mar 2002 19:24:35 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 50 Message-ID: References: <20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com> <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-843.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.91 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!headwall.stanford.edu!hub1.nntpserver.com!hub1.meganetnews.com!newsfeed.sjc.globix.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83818 In message-id , "BD" wrote: > > >Sherilyn wrote in message ... >>In message-id <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, >>The Countess wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>Dick Silk wrote in message >>>news:20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com... >>>> In article , "BD" >>> >>>> writes: >>>> >>>> >I'll save GH the trouble... evidently DS has fallen into the simplest >of >>>> >traps, here. One which we grew tired of ages ago in this NG, battling >>>> >TOWCBN. That being the #1 rule, Dick: >>>> > >>>> >You cannot prove a negative. Period. >>>> > >>>> >>[rant snipped for space] >>> >>>What??? >>> >>His argument is tripe, but he's on the right track. BD argues that you >>cannot prove a negative (when Garrison asks for evidence that OOBEs are >>anything other than etc). > > > >Ahemm... you took the wrong fork in the road, Sherilyn. My statement was >in reply to Dick's post (which you snipped!), ie: "prove that they aren't". > Your statement is still incorrect. It doesn't matter what Dick said. It as if I were in an argument and someone asked me to refute a point, and I argued that I could not refute the point because "black is white." The point made may be true or false, andit may be refutably so, or irrefutably so, but the premise upon which I would be claiming that it could not be refuted would (in this hypothetical case, as in your own actual case) incorrect. [...] -- Sherilyn ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 16 Mar 2002 19:26:05 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 72 Message-ID: References: <20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com> <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> <5qKk8.2592$0e1.451666@cletus.bright.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-931.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.91 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanjose!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83822 In message-id <5qKk8.2592$0e1.451666@cletus.bright.net>, "BD" wrote: > > >Ian H Spedding wrote in message ... >>In article , >>sherilyn@suespammers.org says... >>> In message-id <_gbk8.19490$vH1.9723@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, >>> The Countess wrote: >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >Dick Silk wrote in message >>> >news:20020313232115.28630.00000315@mb-ca.aol.com... >>> >> In article , "BD" >>> > >>> >> writes: >>> >> >>> >> >I'll save GH the trouble... evidently DS has fallen into the simplest >of >>> >> >traps, here. One which we grew tired of ages ago in this NG, >battling >>> >> >TOWCBN. That being the #1 rule, Dick: >>> >> > >>> >> >You cannot prove a negative. Period. >>> >> > >>> >> >>> [rant snipped for space] >>> > >>> >What??? >>> > >>> His argument is tripe, but he's on the right track. BD argues that you >>> cannot prove a negative (when Garrison asks for evidence that OOBEs are >>> anything other than etc). >>> >>> Actually, you _can prove a negative; I could prove that my coffee mug is >>> not yellow by showing it to you. If you observed that it wasn't yellow, >>> then I would have proven, as far as such things are knowable, what I set >>> out to prove. >>> >>> That doesn't mean that _all_ negative statements can be proven, it simply >>> means that it is incorrect to claim that you cannot prove a negative. >>> >>> The term "you cannot prove a negative" possibly originally had some >>> legitimate use, but that original meaning, if it existed, seems to have >>> fallen into disuse, and we're left with a common misunderstanding. >> >>IIRC, the problem lies in not distinguishing between particular and >>universal negatives. As you rightly point out, it is easy to prove a >>particular negative such as your coffee cup example. >> >>But, to take an example I remember from a discussion about this, >>supposing I claim that there are not, nor have there ever been, nor >>will there ever be green penguins at the North Pole. In logic, that >>is a universal proposition and it is plainly impossible to prove. I >>could mount an expedition to the North Pole and check the penguins >>that live there today but there is no way for me to check past or >>future penguins. However, the discovery of just one green penguin at >>the North Pole means it is easy to _disprove_ such a claim. >> >>Ian > > > >Thank you, Ian. But of course, Sherilyn *knew* what I meant, as well. She >just likes twisting... misinterpretting... playing word-games, etc. Sheesh. > Are you seriously arguing that Ian's posting _supports your claim_? -- Sherilyn ###### Lines: 13 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 17 Mar 2002 05:34:31 GMT References: <5qKk8.2592$0e1.451666@cletus.bright.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-fh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020317003431.03652.00000063@mb-fh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83834 In article <5qKk8.2592$0e1.451666@cletus.bright.net>, "BD" writes: >Thank you, Ian. But of course, Sherilyn *knew* what I meant, as well. She >just likes twisting... misinterpretting... playing word-games, etc. Sheesh. > haha... bd can dish it out but can't take it. 10 points for Ian ! :) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 14 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 17 Mar 2002 05:34:31 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-fh) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsgate.cistron.nl!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83836 In article , "BD" writes: >you took the wrong fork in the road, Sherilyn. My statement was >in reply to Dick's post (which you snipped!), ie: "prove that they aren't". to put an end to this: we don't have to prove jack SHIT to you. You either believe or you don't. If you don't, then leave. You have no business nor welcome here. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 21 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 17 Mar 2002 07:22:32 GMT References: <3c93ec1c.11174126@news.lynx.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-cn) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020317022232.04882.00000091@mb-cn.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83859 In article <3c93ec1c.11174126@news.lynx.net>, nada@nada.ca (leo) writes: >>> >So your god tells you, "Thou shall judge"? >>> >>> absolutely! >>> 1st Corinthians, Chapter 2, vs 15: >>> >>> 15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged >>> of no man. >> >><> >> >>Matthew 7:1: Judge not, that ye be not judged. > 1st Corinthians is a description of a spiritual person. Matt 7 is a warning to non-spiritual people (sinners). To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 20 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 17 Mar 2002 07:22:33 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-cn) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020317022233.04882.00000092@mb-cn.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83862 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) writes: >>> I'd be excited to find *any* penguins at the North Pole, considering that >>> they are native to the southern hemisphere. ;-) >> >>Don't blame me. I didn't think up the story. :) >> >>Anyway, I knew that (once you reminded me). >> >Better station an observer there, just in case. where is it that the USAF and their British counterparts go "penguin bowling"? They fly their jets slowly overhead, and the penguins all tip their heads back to watch, and all at once, the entire flock tips over backwards. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: garrison@efn.org (Garrison Hilliard) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 17 Mar 2002 00:01:11 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <20020312144514.06778.00000170@mb-bh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.68.39.42 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1016352071 17789 127.0.0.1 (17 Mar 2002 08:01:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Mar 2002 08:01:11 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!news.gv.tsc.tdk.com!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83911 silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) wrote in message news:<20020312144514.06778.00000170@mb-bh.aol.com>... > In article , > sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) writes: > > > > >>What about the sexual instinct as a perpetrator? > >> > >What about these guys taking themselves in hand? ;) > > that would be far better than taking one up the bunghole... Written by a man who knows. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 04:23:48 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-309.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-hub.siol.net!hub1.meganetnews.com!newsfeed.sjc.globix.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83926 In article <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > In article , "BD" > writes: > > >you took the wrong fork in the road, Sherilyn. My statement was > >in reply to Dick's post (which you snipped!), ie: "prove that they aren't". > > to put an end to this: we don't have to prove jack SHIT to you. You either > believe or you don't. If you don't, then leave. You have no business nor > welcome here. This is quite ironic, considering that Bruce, as a frequent experiencer of and staunch believer in psychic and other "woo-woo" phenomena, is a favorite target of skeptics. :) -- It hurts to admit when you make mistakes. But when they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 11:23:29 -0000 Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <20020317022233.04882.00000092@mb-cn.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-964.cheetah.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk 1016363882 19702 217.134.99.196 (17 Mar 2002 11:18:02 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Mar 2002 11:18:02 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83929 In article <20020317022233.04882.00000092@mb-cn.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > In article , > sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) writes: > > >>> I'd be excited to find *any* penguins at the North Pole, considering that > >>> they are native to the southern hemisphere. ;-) > >> > >>Don't blame me. I didn't think up the story. :) > >> > >>Anyway, I knew that (once you reminded me). > >> > >Better station an observer there, just in case. > > where is it that the USAF and their British counterparts go "penguin bowling"? > They fly their jets slowly overhead, and the penguins all tip their heads back > to watch, and all at once, the entire flock tips over backwards. The Falklands? Didn't research show that it didn't happen? Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 17 Mar 2002 08:23:18 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <20020317022233.04882.00000092@mb-cn.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-350.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.91 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!itgate.net!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83827 In message-id , Ian wrote: > >In article <20020317022233.04882.00000092@mb-cn.aol.com>, >silkdick@aol.commune.net says... [...] >> >>where is it that the USAF and their British counterparts go "penguin bowling"? >>They fly their jets slowly overhead, and the penguins all tip their heads back >> to watch, and all at once, the entire flock tips over backwards. > >The Falklands? Didn't research show that it didn't happen? http://www.snopes2.com/critters/wild/penguin.htm -- Sherilyn "They only tested this on Southern hemisphere penguins, though" ###### Lines: 22 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 17 Mar 2002 18:08:31 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-cj) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020317130831.03242.00000058@mb-cj.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83839 In article , Ian H Spedding writes: >> where is it that the USAF and their British counterparts go "penguin >bowling"? >> They fly their jets slowly overhead, and the penguins all tip their heads >back >> to watch, and all at once, the entire flock tips over backwards. > >The Falklands? Didn't research show that it didn't happen? I've heard it from at least two different sources. Not to say that they weren't both repeating the same original source. But I tend to believe it on the basis that some birds ARE that stupid. Turkeys, for instance, are rumored to have to be brought in out of the rain. Otherwise, they tend to look up with their beaks open and drown. Of course, that could just be an old wives' tale. BUT: I guess it's more fun to believe it's true until proven otherwise. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 19 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 17 Mar 2002 18:08:32 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-cj) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020317130832.03242.00000059@mb-cj.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83843 In article , Janice writes: >> to put an end to this: we don't have to prove jack SHIT to you. You >either >> believe or you don't. If you don't, then leave. You have no business nor >> welcome here. > >This is quite ironic, considering that Bruce, as a frequent experiencer >of and staunch believer in psychic and other "woo-woo" phenomena, is a >favorite target of skeptics. :) > sorry then, Bruce... you got caught in the cross-fire. My bad. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 17 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 17 Mar 2002 18:08:33 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-cj) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020317130833.03242.00000060@mb-cj.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83830 In article , garrison@efn.org (Garrison Hilliard) writes: >> >>What about the sexual instinct as a perpetrator? >> >> >> >What about these guys taking themselves in hand? ;) >> >> that would be far better than taking one up the bunghole... > >Written by a man who knows. > and you can determine this from *what* (or how many?) personal experience(s)? To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: garrison@efn.org (Garrison Hilliard) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 17 Mar 2002 23:39:37 GMT Organization: Oregon Public Networking Lines: 7 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: garcia.efn.org Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.cs.wisc.edu!news.cs.uoregon.edu!news.efn.org!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83975 > From: "dorothy" > >And speaking of skeptics.... I wonder if GH put out a general call to arms. >Doc Price is back, I noticed (though I haven't seen Wally yet....) No, but since you asked for him, I'll summon Wally! ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. References: User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw Lines: 16 Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:00:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.112.19 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1016409655 206.146.112.19 (Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:00:55 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:00:55 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84091 In article , garrison@efn.org (Garrison Hilliard) wrote: > > From: "dorothy" > > > >And speaking of skeptics.... I wonder if GH put out a general call to arms. > >Doc Price is back, I noticed (though I haven't seen Wally yet....) > > No, but since you asked for him, I'll summon Wally! > Poor Slimy Dick. All he seems to have accomplished is to invoke even more skeptics. -- pz ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <3c9524fa.720585@news.ntlworld.com> References: <20020317130831.03242.00000058@mb-cj.aol.com> <3c94e923_1@news3.calweb.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 17 Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:06:35 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.16.255 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016410142 62.255.16.255 (Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:09:02 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 00:09:02 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-hub.siol.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84078 On 17 Mar 2002 11:06:12 -0800, John M Price PhD wrote: > "The pilots fly out to sea and directly to the penguin >colony and overfly it. Heads go up, up, up, and ten thousand penguins >fall over gently onto their backs. > -- Audobon Society Magazine >{Recent data using helicopters tends to indicate this is a myth.} I just hope that not too many eggs and baby penguins got squased when the parents fell over. >Today's feminists need models rather than martyrs; we need the courage to >think as well as the courage to heal. > - Elaine Showalter - _Hystories_, p61. And, oh my goodness but there is such a lot of healing needing to be done. I am glad to be helping in my own small way. ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <7Fcl8.939$d%4.2356262@bcandid.telisphere.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 02:53:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.164 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1016420035 208.26.165.164 (Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:53:55 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 18:53:55 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84118 "Garrison Hilliard" wrote in message news:a739fp$jdp$3@news.efn.org... > > From: "dorothy" > > > >And speaking of skeptics.... I wonder if GH put out a general call to arms. > >Doc Price is back, I noticed (though I haven't seen Wally yet....) > > No, but since you asked for him, I'll summon Wally! Well, I didn't "ask for him"; I only said I hadn't seen him. Go ahead and call him over though - Wally's a pleasure to talk to. He always keeps the conversation on a civil level, much like Ian. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:00:36 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-877.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84140 In article <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com>, "dorothy" says... > And speaking of skeptics.... I wonder if GH put out a general call to arms. Oh, probably. Ian has attested that he does that. > Doc Price is back, I noticed (though I haven't seen Wally yet....) I feel like I've come full circle. :) -- It hurts to admit when you make mistakes. But when they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:03:37 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <20020312144518.06778.00000173@mb-bh.aol.com> <6atj8.48505$Yd.2775272@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <20020312173104.12419.00000242@mb-ml.aol.com> <1f8z7yn.19jml091y5x01mN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <3c93ec1c.11174126@news.lynx.net> <20020317022232.04882.00000091@mb-cn.aol.com> <1f96rel.575jxd1att5c0N%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <20020317163036.13288.00000116@mb-ft.aol.com> <1f9796v.1nceonx14hr30yN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-967.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!64.245.249.19.MISMATCH!dfw3-feed1.news.digex.net!dca6-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.lotsanews.com.MISMATCH!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84116 In article <1f9796v.1nceonx14hr30yN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net>, spnak@petitNOTmorte.net says... > Fair enough. It's the people who spew scripture as though it affords > them some sort of moral authority that get under my skin. I like to quote it sometimes just to get people thinking about certain ideas. -- It hurts to admit when you make mistakes. But when they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 24 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 03:24:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.164 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1016421859 208.26.165.164 (Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:24:19 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 19:24:19 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84117 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.16ff225bf6cd63c3989a39@cnews.newsguy.com... > In article <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com>, "dorothy" > says... > > > And speaking of skeptics.... I wonder if GH put out a general call to arms. > > Oh, probably. Ian has attested that he does that. Yes, I read the post where he explained why he came. And why he stayed. (wish GH would copy that one over to sci.skeptic...) > > Doc Price is back, I noticed (though I haven't seen Wally yet....) > > I feel like I've come full circle. :) Same here. I think I predicted a few weeks ago that TOWCBN was due to show up soon. It's a hit, I guess, but not one I'm too excited about. I just took the kids to see 'The Time Machine' this afternoon. It was fun. Jeremy Irons was so... so... pathetically evil. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 23:12:56 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-415.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84120 In article , "dorothy" says... > "Janice" wrote in message > news:MPG.16ff225bf6cd63c3989a39@cnews.newsguy.com... > > In article <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com>, "dorothy" > > says... > > > > > And speaking of skeptics.... I wonder if GH put out a general call to > arms. > > > > Oh, probably. Ian has attested that he does that. > > Yes, I read the post where he explained why he came. And why he stayed. > (wish GH would copy that one over to sci.skeptic...) I think I will, what the heck. > I just took the kids to see 'The Time Machine' this afternoon. It was fun. > Jeremy Irons was so... so... pathetically evil. I liked the bit where he said (approximately), "We all have our time machines. The ones that take us back are called memories. The ones that carry us forward are called dreams." -- It hurts to admit when you make mistakes. But when they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 41 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <9nfl8.942$d%4.2362804@bcandid.telisphere.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 05:59:33 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.95 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1016431173 208.26.165.95 (Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:59:33 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 21:59:33 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84124 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.16ff334f789b8993989a40@cnews.newsguy.com... > In article , "dorothy" > says... > > "Janice" wrote in message > > news:MPG.16ff225bf6cd63c3989a39@cnews.newsguy.com... > > > In article <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com>, "dorothy" > > > says... > > > > > > > And speaking of skeptics.... I wonder if GH put out a general call to > > arms. > > > > > > Oh, probably. Ian has attested that he does that. > > > > Yes, I read the post where he explained why he came. And why he stayed. > > (wish GH would copy that one over to sci.skeptic...) > > I think I will, what the heck. > > > I just took the kids to see 'The Time Machine' this afternoon. It was fun. > > Jeremy Irons was so... so... pathetically evil. > > I liked the bit where he said (approximately), "We all have our time > machines. The ones that take us back are called memories. The ones that > carry us forward are called dreams." > > -- > > It hurts to admit when you make mistakes. But when > they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.--Despair, Inc. > > My homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html > > The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 35 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <2zfl8.943$d%4.2363234@bcandid.telisphere.com> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 06:12:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.95 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1016431934 208.26.165.95 (Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:12:14 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 17 Mar 2002 22:12:14 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84125 Darn, didn't mean to send that other one off! "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.16ff334f789b8993989a40@cnews.newsguy.com... > In article , "dorothy" > says... > > "Janice" wrote in message > > news:MPG.16ff225bf6cd63c3989a39@cnews.newsguy.com... > > > In article <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com>, "dorothy" > > > says... > > > > > > > And speaking of skeptics.... I wonder if GH put out a general call to > > arms. > > > > > > Oh, probably. Ian has attested that he does that. > > > > Yes, I read the post where he explained why he came. And why he stayed. > > (wish GH would copy that one over to sci.skeptic...) > > I think I will, what the heck. I'm resisting posting over there, though I've been tempted. > > I just took the kids to see 'The Time Machine' this afternoon. It was fun. > > Jeremy Irons was so... so... pathetically evil. > > I liked the bit where he said (approximately), "We all have our time > machines. The ones that take us back are called memories. The ones that > carry us forward are called dreams." That's pretty good. I missed that one. ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 16 Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:35:31 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016436931 80.1.123.25 (Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:35:31 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 07:35:31 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!peernews2.colt.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83977 In message-id <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com>, dorothy wrote: [...] > >And speaking of skeptics.... I wonder if GH put out a general call to arms. >Doc Price is back, Yes, the increase in quality of posting content on the group was noticeable. > I noticed (though I haven't seen Wally yet....) > > -- Sherilyn ###### Lines: 15 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 18 Mar 2002 14:26:22 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ft) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020318092622.13288.00000149@mb-ft.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84067 In article , Janice writes: >"We all have our time machines. The ones that take us back are called memories. The ones that carry us forward are called dreams." that's got to be the most beautifully elegant quote I've heard on this board since I popped over last January. . To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 15 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 18 Mar 2002 14:26:23 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ft) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020318092623.13288.00000150@mb-ft.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84046 In article , Janice writes: >> Yes, I read the post where he explained why he came. And why he stayed. >> (wish GH would copy that one over to sci.skeptic...) > >I think I will, what the heck. oh bloody hell... I take it dorothy loves a room full of skeptics, eh? fuck me till I bleed then fuck me because I'm bleeding. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 13 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 18 Mar 2002 14:26:24 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ft) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020318092624.13288.00000151@mb-ft.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84051 In article , pz writes: >Poor Slimy Dick. All he seems to have accomplished is to invoke even >more skeptics. > nah... you skeptics are just like an old turd: cut you up into shreds, and all you do is stink the place up even more. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 17 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 18 Mar 2002 14:26:24 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ft) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020318092624.13288.00000152@mb-ft.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84055 In article , garrison@efn.org (Garrison Hilliard) writes: >> From: "dorothy" >> >>And speaking of skeptics.... I wonder if GH put out a general call to arms. >>Doc Price is back, I noticed (though I haven't seen Wally yet....) > >No, but since you asked for him, I'll summon Wally! > oh Christ... and Dorothy says *I've* got a big mouth! To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 31 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 18 Mar 2002 14:26:26 GMT References: <1f9796v.1nceonx14hr30yN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ft) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020318092626.13288.00000153@mb-ft.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84064 In article <1f9796v.1nceonx14hr30yN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net>, spnak@petitNOTmorte.net (jfred) writes: >Fair enough. It's the people who spew scripture as though it affords >them some sort of moral authority that get under my skin. I can abide with the fact that it is *their* moral authority for how *they* are to behave. Also, if they feel they must foster their beliefs openly for us to be exposed to them, so be it. But I get *my* moral authority directly from God Who dwells within me. Perhaps I learned that from the Bible, but actually it came more from realizing that other people who think they're in charge of my life tend to fuck it up royally. Only by taking charge of my OWN life do I ever get anything accomplished correctly. >> I'll stick to the words of Christ over anyone else's, regardless of who >> quotes him in the NT. I don't know of any Christ quotes which conflict. > >Where do we see the words of Christ where they're his words and not just >apostles quoting him? Perhaps I should state it this way: get a red-letter edition. Anything Christ is supposed to have said is in red. Anything the apostles or disciples re-state is in black. For instance: Christ says "resist NOT evil." (KJV) Whereas Paul (I think) says "fight evil with everything youv'e got." This is a case where Christ's version makes more sense, as in the blade of grass which bends does not break. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 11 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 18 Mar 2002 14:26:27 GMT References: <3c94e99b_1@news3.calweb.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ft) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020318092627.13288.00000154@mb-ft.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84069 In article <3c94e99b_1@news3.calweb.com>, John M Price PhD writes: >Your position vis-a-vis others is based on the side and not >the fact base of the statements made? How vapid! if you're attempting to bait me into a rage with that statement, you've failed. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 42 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 18 Mar 2002 14:26:28 GMT References: <3c94e99b_1@news3.calweb.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ft) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020318092628.13288.00000155@mb-ft.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84073 In article <3c94e99b_1@news3.calweb.com>, John M Price PhD writes: >:>This is quite ironic, considering that Bruce, as a frequent experiencer >:>of and staunch believer in psychic and other "woo-woo" phenomena, is a >:>favorite target of skeptics. :) >:> > >: sorry then, Bruce... you got caught in the cross-fire. My bad. > >Interesting. Your position vis-a-vis others is based on the side and not >the fact base of the statements made? How vapid I would appreciate a copy of the original post. I'm not entirely certain I was responding to Bruce, although I'm sure Janice wouldn't deliberately mislead me. I really was on quite an anti-pz roll there for a while, and when someone mentioned "proving" something, well... they got their head shot at as it rolled on by. So I accidentally let go with some "friendly fire"... so shoot me. My position is *clearly* on the side of anyone who wishes to believe what they want to believe without having to provide "objective evidence." Quite honestly, I'm really sick of any layer of society which exists -- well, I'll have to draw a scale. Sun/Earth/stars/nature: good. hand powered tools: good. anything powered by petro-chemical combustion: bad. anything powered by solar, geothermal, hydro-electric or wind: good. anything governed by a body politic larger than a father/mother family team: bad. anything governed by a body politic from father-mother on down to the individual: good. anything which happens within the realm of the mind is real. anything which happens external to the mind is only convention. True, some of those conventions may kill you if you're not careful. But I ain't dead (yet). To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 20 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 18 Mar 2002 14:26:29 GMT References: <3c94e923_1@news3.calweb.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ft) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020318092629.13288.00000156@mb-ft.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84075 In article <3c94e923_1@news3.calweb.com>, John M Price PhD writes: >"The pilots fly out to sea and directly to the penguin >colony and overfly it. Heads go up, up, up, and ten thousand penguins >fall over gently onto their backs. > -- Audobon Society Magazine >{Recent data using helicopters tends to indicate this is a myth.} of course, one may argue: recent data might not take into effect the fact that the penguins have learned not to tip themselves over (anymore). Also, a helicopter present may provide a distraction which prevents the bowling pin effect. but... after all, it's a silly thread. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <20020312144518.06778.00000173@mb-bh.aol.com> <6atj8.48505$Yd.2775272@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <20020312173104.12419.00000242@mb-ml.aol.com> <1f8z7yn.19jml091y5x01mN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <3c93ec1c.11174126@news.lynx.net> <20020317022232.04882.00000091@mb-cn.aol.com> <1f96rel.575jxd1att5c0N%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <20020317163036.13288.00000116@mb-ft.aol.com> <1f9796v.1nceonx14hr30yN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 34 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:05:15 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:12:57 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.nntpserver.com!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84167 "jfred" wrote in message news:1f9796v.1nceonx14hr30yN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net... > Dick Silk wrote: > > > In article <1f96rel.575jxd1att5c0N%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net>, > > spnak@petitNOTmorte.net (jfred) writes: > > > > >Regardless, we still have the problem wherein Matthew and Paul don't seem > > >to agree on this point. > > > > they don't seem to, agreed, but interpretations may vary upon the pov of > > the interpreter. hence someone asked where our god gives us the right to > > judge others, therefore I replied with corinthians. If you really want to > > nail faults in the Bible, Matthew and Luke pretty much do it in when they > > disagree with the lineage of Christ. Both have different grandfathers > > listed. And no, I do NOT buy that one is Mary's line and the other is > > Joseph's, because they specifically state "son of " or "begat". > > Fair enough. It's the people who spew scripture as though it affords > them some sort of moral authority that get under my skin. > It's people who quote scriptures at all that get under my skin. Seems everyone has their own interpretations of what their bible means. And anyway, do you think we all have the same bibles? Some of us don't have bibles at all. ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <20020312144518.06778.00000173@mb-bh.aol.com> <6atj8.48505$Yd.2775272@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <20020312173104.12419.00000242@mb-ml.aol.com> <1f8z7yn.19jml091y5x01mN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <3c93ec1c.11174126@news.lynx.net> <20020317022232.04882.00000091@mb-cn.aol.com> <1f96rel.575jxd1att5c0N%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <20020317163036.13288.00000116@mb-ft.aol.com> <1f9796v.1nceonx14hr30yN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 18 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:06:07 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:13:49 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.nntpserver.com!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83964 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.16ff23118f926165989a3a@cnews.newsguy.com... > In article <1f9796v.1nceonx14hr30yN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net>, > spnak@petitNOTmorte.net says... > > > Fair enough. It's the people who spew scripture as though it affords > > them some sort of moral authority that get under my skin. > > I like to quote it sometimes just to get people thinking about certain > ideas. > That's fine. A lot of people quote it as if, the way they read into, it is the only truth. ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020317022233.04882.00000092@mb-cn.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 29 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:07:24 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:15:06 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.nntpserver.com!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84169 "Dick Silk" wrote in message news:20020317022233.04882.00000092@mb-cn.aol.com... > In article , > sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) writes: > > >>> I'd be excited to find *any* penguins at the North Pole, considering that > >>> they are native to the southern hemisphere. ;-) > >> > >>Don't blame me. I didn't think up the story. :) > >> > >>Anyway, I knew that (once you reminded me). > >> > >Better station an observer there, just in case. > > where is it that the USAF and their British counterparts go "penguin bowling"? > They fly their jets slowly overhead, and the penguins all tip their heads back > to watch, and all at once, the entire flock tips over backwards. Thais so funny. That was one of Dr Price's sig files that I really liked and I was just thinking about it when I saw his name back in the NG today. Is that a hit or what?! ;) ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 22 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <3tnl8.103047$Yd.5288292@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:11:59 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:19:41 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.nntpserver.com!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84165 "pz" wrote in message news:pzm-19A2E7.18013217032002@news.onvoy.com... > In article , > garrison@efn.org (Garrison Hilliard) wrote: > > > > From: "dorothy" > > > > > >And speaking of skeptics.... I wonder if GH put out a general call to arms. > > >Doc Price is back, I noticed (though I haven't seen Wally yet....) > > > > No, but since you asked for him, I'll summon Wally! > > > > Poor Slimy Dick. All he seems to have accomplished is to invoke even > more skeptics. Who invited him here anyway?!! Hmmpf ! ;) (Just teasing, Janice). ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <20020312144518.06778.00000173@mb-bh.aol.com> <6atj8.48505$Yd.2775272@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <20020312173104.12419.00000242@mb-ml.aol.com> <1f8z7yn.19jml091y5x01mN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <3c93ec1c.11174126@news.lynx.net> <20020317022232.04882.00000091@mb-cn.aol.com> <1f96rel.575jxd1att5c0N%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <20020317163036.13288.00000116@mb-ft.aol.com> <1f9796v.1nceonx14hr30yN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 14 Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:24:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016465067 80.1.123.25 (Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:24:27 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:24:27 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!lon1-news.nildram.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83981 In message-id , lorz wrote: [...] > >It's people who quote scriptures at all that get under my skin. Seems >everyone has their own interpretations of what their bible means. And >anyway, do you think we all have the same bibles? Some of us don't have >bibles at all. It's just a book written by humans. Most of the people who quote it either overlook that or believe that it wasn't written by humans. -- Sherilyn ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:46:58 -0000 Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-2611.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 1016466089 2417 217.134.234.51 (18 Mar 2002 15:41:29 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Mar 2002 15:41:29 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!priapus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84136 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article , "dorothy" > says... > > "Janice" wrote in message > > news:MPG.16ff225bf6cd63c3989a39@cnews.newsguy.com... > > > In article <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com>, "dorothy" > > > says... > > > > > > > And speaking of skeptics.... I wonder if GH put out a general call to > > arms. > > > > > > Oh, probably. Ian has attested that he does that. > > > > Yes, I read the post where he explained why he came. And why he stayed. > > (wish GH would copy that one over to sci.skeptic...) > > I think I will, what the heck. Be my guest.:) Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:47:01 -0000 Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-2611.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 1016466091 2417 217.134.234.51 (18 Mar 2002 15:41:31 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Mar 2002 15:41:31 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!priapus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84137 In article , "dorothy" says... [...] > I just took the kids to see 'The Time Machine' this afternoon. It was fun. > Jeremy Irons was so... so... pathetically evil. What a *oincidence, they showed the old Robert Taylor version of The Time Machine on TV here over the weekend. Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 15:47:02 -0000 Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-2611.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 1016466092 2417 217.134.234.51 (18 Mar 2002 15:41:32 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Mar 2002 15:41:32 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!priapus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84128 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com>, "dorothy" > says... > > > And speaking of skeptics.... I wonder if GH put out a general call to arms. > > Oh, probably. Ian has attested that he does that. I think he sees himself as Robin Hood sounding his horn in Sherwood Forest to summon his band of Merry Sceptics. :) > > Doc Price is back, I noticed (though I haven't seen Wally yet....) > > I feel like I've come full circle. :) It's a bit like fashion. If you wait long enough, the styles come back round again. Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 16 Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:01:06 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016467266 80.1.123.25 (Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:01:06 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 16:01:06 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!news2.euro.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:83980 In message-id , Ian H Spedding wrote: >In article , "dorothy" > says... > >[...] > >> I just took the kids to see 'The Time Machine' this afternoon. It was fun. >> Jeremy Irons was so... so... pathetically evil. > >What a *oincidence, they showed the old Robert Taylor version of The >Time Machine on TV here over the weekend. Rod Taylor. -- Sherilyn ###### From: "BD" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020317130832.03242.00000059@mb-cj.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 30 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: <9Tnl8.3078$0e1.493937@cletus.bright.net> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:50:44 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.198.182 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mhtc.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 1016465989 216.180.198.182 (Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:39:49 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:39:49 EST Organization: MHTC Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84105 Dick Silk wrote in message <20020317130832.03242.00000059@mb-cj.aol.com>... >In article , Janice > writes: > >>> to put an end to this: we don't have to prove jack SHIT to you. You >>either >>> believe or you don't. If you don't, then leave. You have no business nor >>> welcome here. >> >>This is quite ironic, considering that Bruce, as a frequent experiencer >>of and staunch believer in psychic and other "woo-woo" phenomena, is a >>favorite target of skeptics. :) >> > >sorry then, Bruce... you got caught in the cross-fire. My bad. > > s'okay., really. *fine* BD ###### From: "BD" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 23 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 09:59:27 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.198.182 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mhtc.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 1016466511 216.180.198.182 (Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:48:31 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 10:48:31 EST Organization: MHTC Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84104 Ian H Spedding wrote in message ... >In article , "dorothy" > says... > >[...] > >> I just took the kids to see 'The Time Machine' this afternoon. It was fun. >> Jeremy Irons was so... so... pathetically evil. > >What a *oincidence, they showed the old Robert Taylor version of The >Time Machine on TV here over the weekend. > >Ian "oincidence", now is it? Hahahahahaaaa! :) BD ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:18:36 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <20020318092622.13288.00000149@mb-ft.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-835.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84135 In article <20020318092622.13288.00000149@mb-ft.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > In article , Janice > writes: > > >"We all have our time machines. The ones that take us back are called > memories. The ones that carry us forward are called dreams." > > that's got to be the most beautifully elegant quote I've heard on this board > since I popped over last January. Well, if you go to see the film, take notes to get it exactly right, OK? :) -- It hurts to admit when you make mistakes. But when they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:26:57 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <20020318092623.13288.00000150@mb-ft.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-179.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!wn14eed!worldnet.att.net!209.155.233.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84212 In article <20020318092623.13288.00000150@mb-ft.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > In article , Janice > writes: > > >> Yes, I read the post where he explained why he came. And why he stayed. > >> (wish GH would copy that one over to sci.skeptic...) > > > >I think I will, what the heck. > > oh bloody hell... I take it dorothy loves a room full of skeptics, eh? fuck me > till I bleed then fuck me because I'm bleeding. Their curiosity was already aroused thanks to GH's crossposts to sci.skeptic. The point is to show them that not all skeptics share GH's view of the group. If it sounds less exciting than the picture GH painted, I figure those who only want to see a "kook-fest" won't be as interested in stopping by. -- It hurts to admit when you make mistakes. But when they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:33:39 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 33 Message-ID: References: <3c94e99b_1@news3.calweb.com> <20020318092628.13288.00000155@mb-ft.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-432.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-xfer2.newshosting.com!hub1.meganetnews.com!newsfeed.sjc.globix.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84213 In article <20020318092628.13288.00000155@mb-ft.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > I would appreciate a copy of the original post. I'm not entirely certain I was > responding to Bruce, although I'm sure Janice wouldn't deliberately mislead me. You were responding to Bruce. Bruce said: >> you took the wrong fork in the road, Sherilyn. My statement was >> in reply to Dick's post (which you snipped!), ie: "prove that they >> aren't". Then you said: > to put an end to this: we don't have to prove jack SHIT to you. > You either believe or you don't. If you don't, then leave. > You have no business nor welcome here. You mistook Bruce for a skeptic, probably in part because he'd said elsewhere that he found reading your posts painful. -- It hurts to admit when you make mistakes. But when they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:35:45 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <3c94e923_1@news3.calweb.com> <20020318092629.13288.00000156@mb-ft.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-466.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-hub.siol.net!hub1.meganetnews.com!hub1.nntpserver.com!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator-la!news-in-la.newsfeeds.com!news-in.superfeed.net!enews.sgi.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84214 In article <20020318092629.13288.00000156@mb-ft.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > > of course, one may argue: recent data might not take into effect the fact that > the penguins have learned not to tip themselves over (anymore). Also, a > helicopter present may provide a distraction which prevents the bowling pin > effect. Myth or not, this penguin-tipping image seems like it would work very well in a computer animated TV commercial. :) -- It hurts to admit when you make mistakes. But when they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:38:36 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <20020312144518.06778.00000173@mb-bh.aol.com> <6atj8.48505$Yd.2775272@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <20020312173104.12419.00000242@mb-ml.aol.com> <1f8z7yn.19jml091y5x01mN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <3c93ec1c.11174126@news.lynx.net> <20020317022232.04882.00000091@mb-cn.aol.com> <1f96rel.575jxd1att5c0N%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <20020317163036.13288.00000116@mb-ft.aol.com> <1f9796v.1nceonx14hr30yN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-589.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!uninett.no!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!24.226.1.12!feed.cgocable.net!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanjose!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84215 In article , lorz@bellsouth.net says... > It's people who quote scriptures at all that get under my skin. Oh, boy! Now I know how to irritate you! ;-) -- God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 1 John 4:16 My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:46:07 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-953.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84216 In article , harry@spedding53.fsnet.co.uk says... > I think he sees himself as Robin Hood sounding his horn in Sherwood > Forest to summon his band of Merry Sceptics. :) The Fred Wedlock version, perhaps? "He was walking through the woods, this randy Robin Hood, With most of his merry men, When to make the song real crude, by them dashed a nude, And he never seen his merry men again." :-) -- My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### Lines: 18 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 18 Mar 2002 19:07:30 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ms) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020318140730.14686.00000068@mb-ms.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84197 In article , Sherilyn writes: >>The Falklands? Didn't research show that it didn't happen? > >http://www.snopes2.com/critters/wild/penguin.htm in this disclaimer URL above, I don't think the conditions of the dispute match the conditions of the observation: namely, jets travel faster than sound. When flying left to right at a sufficient distance so as not to disturb the birds from the noise, they might look left then right. when flying straight on towards them, the birds may look back before they actually hear the sound which would scatter them. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:17:37 -0000 Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-3500.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 1016478726 15082 217.134.237.172 (18 Mar 2002 19:12:06 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Mar 2002 19:12:06 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!priapus.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84207 In article , bdyager@mhtc.net says... > > Ian H Spedding wrote in message ... > >In article , "dorothy" > > says... > > > >[...] > > > >> I just took the kids to see 'The Time Machine' this afternoon. It was > fun. > >> Jeremy Irons was so... so... pathetically evil. > > > >What a *oincidence, they showed the old Robert Taylor version of The > >Time Machine on TV here over the weekend. > > > >Ian > > "oincidence", now is it? Hahahahahaaaa! :) Have to avoid the 'C' words at any price.:) Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:17:39 -0000 Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-3500.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 1016478728 15082 217.134.237.172 (18 Mar 2002 19:12:08 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Mar 2002 19:12:08 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!opentransit.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84208 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org says... > In message-id , > Ian H Spedding wrote: > >In article , "dorothy" > > says... > > > >[...] > > > >> I just took the kids to see 'The Time Machine' this afternoon. It was fun. > >> Jeremy Irons was so... so... pathetically evil. > > > >What a *oincidence, they showed the old Robert Taylor version of The > >Time Machine on TV here over the weekend. > > Rod Taylor. Rats! I always get those two names confused. Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: garrison@efn.org (Garrison Hilliard) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 18 Mar 2002 19:44:19 GMT Organization: Oregon Public Networking Lines: 4 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: garcia.efn.org Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsspool.doit.wisc.edu!newsfeed.cs.wisc.edu!news.cs.uoregon.edu!news.efn.org!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84171 >> >What a *oincidence, they showed the old Robert Taylor version of The >> >Time Machine on TV here over the weekend. That's Rod Taylor, not Robert Tay;or, Ian. ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 14:18:07 -0600 Organization: Killing yourself isn't the answer. Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> X-Trace: laurel.tc.umn.edu 1016482648 656 146.57.32.36 (18 Mar 2002 20:17:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@laurel.tc.umn.edu User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.2 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw, Ian H Spedding wrote: > In article , bdyager@mhtc.net > says... > > > > Ian H Spedding wrote in message ... > > >In article , "dorothy" > > > says... > > > > > >[...] > > > > > >> I just took the kids to see 'The Time Machine' this afternoon. It was > > fun. > > >> Jeremy Irons was so... so... pathetically evil. > > > > > >What a *oincidence, they showed the old Robert Taylor version of The > > >Time Machine on TV here over the weekend. > > > > > >Ian > > > > "oincidence", now is it? Hahahahahaaaa! :) > > Have to avoid the 'C' words at any price.:) "P" words, too. I figure that in a few months we'll have you reduced to mumbling nothing but vowels. -- pz ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020318092623.13288.00000150@mb-ft.aol.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 26 Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:55:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016484912 80.1.123.25 (Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:55:12 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:55:12 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84175 In message-id , Janice wrote: >In article <20020318092623.13288.00000150@mb-ft.aol.com>, >silkdick@aol.commune.net says... >> In article , Janice >> writes: >> >> >> Yes, I read the post where he explained why he came. And why he stayed. >> >> (wish GH would copy that one over to sci.skeptic...) >> > >> >I think I will, what the heck. >> >> oh bloody hell... I take it dorothy loves a room full of skeptics, eh? fuck me >> till I bleed then fuck me because I'm bleeding. > >Their curiosity was already aroused thanks to GH's crossposts to >sci.skeptic. The point is to show them that not all skeptics share GH's >view of the group. If it sounds less exciting than the picture GH >painted, I figure those who only want to see a "kook-fest" won't be as >interested in stopping by. > That's a risky venture. Not all who call themselves skeptics are likely to care whether things aren't "interesting" in that sense. Garrison is one of the nice ones. -- Sherilyn ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: 18 Mar 2002 13:36:05 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <20020318140730.14686.00000068@mb-ms.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-494.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.91 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84190 In message-id <20020318140730.14686.00000068@mb-ms.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net wrote: > >In article , Sherilyn >writes: > >>>The Falklands? Didn't research show that it didn't happen? >> >>http://www.snopes2.com/critters/wild/penguin.htm > >in this disclaimer URL above, I don't think the conditions of the dispute match >the conditions of the observation: >namely, jets travel faster than sound. When flying left to right at a >sufficient distance so as not to disturb the birds from the noise, they might >look left then right. when flying straight on towards them, the birds may look >back before they actually hear the sound which would scatter them. There are birds of prey in the antarctic. Skuas, for instance, prey on penguin eggs and small chicks, and penguins are rightly wary of them. Why doesn't a skua flying low overhead cause a wary penguin to fall over on its back? Why aren't penguins extinct, with skuas and shags flying overhead whilst the penguins tend their nests? The whole story seems to depend on the penguins reacting unlike any bird ever did--reacting, in fact, like comic dinner-jacketed drunken gents. Which is what makes the penguins-falling-over story so amusing and repeatable in the first place. -- Sherilyn ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <3c94e923_1@news3.calweb.com> <20020318092629.13288.00000156@mb-ft.aol.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 18 Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:53:33 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016488413 80.1.123.25 (Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:53:33 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:53:33 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84185 In message-id , Janice wrote: >In article <20020318092629.13288.00000156@mb-ft.aol.com>, >silkdick@aol.commune.net says... >> >> of course, one may argue: recent data might not take into effect the fact that >> the penguins have learned not to tip themselves over (anymore). Also, a >> helicopter present may provide a distraction which prevents the bowling pin >> effect. > >Myth or not, this penguin-tipping image seems like it would work very >well in a computer animated TV commercial. :) Dammit, I can see it in the next Microsoft commercial. They'd just love to get in a dig against Linux without actually mentioning Linux by name. -- Sherilyn ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <20020312144518.06778.00000173@mb-bh.aol.com> <6atj8.48505$Yd.2775272@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <20020312173104.12419.00000242@mb-ml.aol.com> <1f8z7yn.19jml091y5x01mN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <3c93ec1c.11174126@news.lynx.net> <20020317022232.04882.00000091@mb-cn.aol.com> <1f96rel.575jxd1att5c0N%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <20020317163036.13288.00000116@mb-ft.aol.com> <1f9796v.1nceonx14hr30yN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 12 Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:55:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016488508 80.1.123.25 (Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:55:08 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:55:08 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84187 In message-id , Janice wrote: >In article , >lorz@bellsouth.net says... > >> It's people who quote scriptures at all that get under my skin. > >Oh, boy! Now I know how to irritate you! ;-) > John 11:35 -- Sherilyn "Sorry, couldn't resist" ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:53:02 -0000 Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-2452.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk 1016491654 22790 217.134.233.148 (18 Mar 2002 22:47:34 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Mar 2002 22:47:34 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84369 In article , pzm@mac.com says... > In article , > Ian H Spedding wrote: > > > In article , bdyager@mhtc.net > > says... > > > > > > Ian H Spedding wrote in message ... [...] > > > >What a *oincidence, they showed the old Robert Taylor version of The > > > >Time Machine on TV here over the weekend. > > > > > > > >Ian > > > > > > "oincidence", now is it? Hahahahahaaaa! :) > > > > Have to avoid the 'C' words at any price.:) > > "P" words, too. I figure that in a few months we'll have you reduced to > mumbling nothing but vowels. I din't know about a few months, a few drinks is usually enough. Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:53:06 -0000 Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-2452.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk 1016491655 22790 217.134.233.148 (18 Mar 2002 22:47:35 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Mar 2002 22:47:35 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84365 In article , garrison@efn.org says... > >> >What a *oincidence, they showed the old Robert Taylor version of The > >> >Time Machine on TV here over the weekend. > > That's Rod Taylor, not Robert Tay;or, Ian. I know, I know ... Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:53:08 -0000 Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <20020318140730.14686.00000068@mb-ms.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-2452.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk 1016491657 22790 217.134.233.148 (18 Mar 2002 22:47:37 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Mar 2002 22:47:37 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84359 In article <20020318140730.14686.00000068@mb-ms.aol.com>, silkdick@aol.commune.net says... > In article , Sherilyn > writes: > > >>The Falklands? Didn't research show that it didn't happen? > > > >http://www.snopes2.com/critters/wild/penguin.htm > > in this disclaimer URL above, I don't think the conditions of the dispute match > the conditions of the observation: > namely, jets travel faster than sound. When flying left to right at a > sufficient distance so as not to disturb the birds from the noise, they might > look left then right. when flying straight on towards them, the birds may look > back before they actually hear the sound which would scatter them. It isn't true to say that all jets travel faster than sound, and even those that can are not usually supersonic at very low level. Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:53:10 -0000 Lines: 24 Message-ID: References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-2452.cougar.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk 1016491660 22790 217.134.233.148 (18 Mar 2002 22:47:40 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Mar 2002 22:47:40 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!diablo.theplanet.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84377 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article , > harry@spedding53.fsnet.co.uk says... > > > I think he sees himself as Robin Hood sounding his horn in Sherwood > > Forest to summon his band of Merry Sceptics. :) > > The Fred Wedlock version, perhaps? > > "He was walking through the woods, this randy Robin Hood, > With most of his merry men, > When to make the song real crude, by them dashed a nude, > And he never seen his merry men again." Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of Robin Hood: Men in Tights. Ian -- Ian H Spedding A difference which makes no difference is no difference. ###### Message-ID: <3C967A39.C1A92783@cogeco.ca> From: Tien Yen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:37:29 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.150.231.178 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cogeco.ca X-Trace: read2.cgocable.net 1016494816 24.150.231.178 (Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:40:16 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 18:40:16 EST Organization: Cogeco Cable Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!24.226.1.12!feed.cgocable.net!read2.cgocable.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84389 Ian H Spedding wrote: > > In article , garrison@efn.org says... > > >> >What a *oincidence, they showed the old Robert Taylor version of The > > >> >Time Machine on TV here over the weekend. > > > > That's Rod Taylor, not Robert Tay;or, Ian. > > I know, I know ... > > Ian s'OK, Ian, it's not Tay;or either ;> ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 34 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:14:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.24.243.189 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1016500465 63.24.243.189 (Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:14:25 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:14:25 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84343 BD wrote in message news:j%nl8.3107$0e1.494043@cletus.bright.net... > > Ian H Spedding wrote in message ... > >In article , "dorothy" > > says... > > > >[...] > > > >> I just took the kids to see 'The Time Machine' this afternoon. It was > fun. > >> Jeremy Irons was so... so... pathetically evil. > > > >What a *oincidence, they showed the old Robert Taylor version of The > >Time Machine on TV here over the weekend. > > > >Ian > > > "oincidence", now is it? Hahahahahaaaa! :) > > BD Yea I liked that one too. I almost heard a bleep over the word when I read it. -- .............. Trish (Perspective - Use it or Lose it.) ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 22 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:26:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.24.243.189 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1016501160 63.24.243.189 (Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:26:00 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:26:00 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84334 Garrison Hilliard wrote in message news:a739fp$jdp$3@news.efn.org... > > From: "dorothy" > > > >And speaking of skeptics.... I wonder if GH put out a general call to arms. > >Doc Price is back, I noticed (though I haven't seen Wally yet....) > > No, but since you asked for him, I'll summon Wally! > Oh please do. We've had some interesting conversations with Wally, and I enjoy his contributions very much .... I think most of the regulars here feel the same way. -- .............. Trish (Perspective - Use it or Lose it.) ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 32 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:31:16 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.24.243.189 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1016501476 63.24.243.189 (Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:31:16 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:31:16 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84350 pz wrote in message news:pzm-19A2E7.18013217032002@news.onvoy.com... > In article , > garrison@efn.org (Garrison Hilliard) wrote: > > > > From: "dorothy" > > > > > >And speaking of skeptics.... I wonder if GH put out a general call to arms. > > >Doc Price is back, I noticed (though I haven't seen Wally yet....) > > > > No, but since you asked for him, I'll summon Wally! > > > > Poor Slimy Dick. All he seems to have accomplished is to invoke even > more skeptics. > > -- > pz Wish you would quit the name calling pz. You're so much better when you choose not to. And Dick, I think that's the only thing he can do right about now. It's a shame. The banter is starting to sound silly. -- .............. Trish (Perspective - Use it or Lose it.) ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020318092624.13288.00000152@mb-ft.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 33 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: <6Ewl8.17795$e33.14432@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:38:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.24.243.189 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1016501890 63.24.243.189 (Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:38:10 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:38:10 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84341 Dick Silk wrote in message news:20020318092624.13288.00000152@mb-ft.aol.com... > In article , garrison@efn.org (Garrison Hilliard) > writes: > > >> From: "dorothy" > >> > >>And speaking of skeptics.... I wonder if GH put out a general call to arms. > >>Doc Price is back, I noticed (though I haven't seen Wally yet....) > > > >No, but since you asked for him, I'll summon Wally! > > > > oh Christ... and Dorothy says *I've* got a big mouth! > Wally is a pleasure to talk with. I had a great conversation with him about hallucinations a while back, and yes, we were in opposition. Not all skeptics are these terrifying monsters, Dick. Why don't you slow down a bit, stick with a conversation ... learn to accept some straightforward skeptical questioning, and relax. -- .............. Trish (Perspective - Use it or Lose it.) ###### Reply-To: "The Countess" From: "The Countess" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020317130832.03242.00000059@mb-cj.aol.com> <9Tnl8.3078$0e1.493937@cletus.bright.net> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 38 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: <7Fwl8.17799$e33.3739@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:39:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.24.243.189 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1016501955 63.24.243.189 (Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:39:15 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 20:39:15 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!dca6-feed1.news.digex.net!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!494c3a3c!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84333 BD wrote in message news:9Tnl8.3078$0e1.493937@cletus.bright.net... > > Dick Silk wrote in message <20020317130832.03242.00000059@mb-cj.aol.com>... > >In article , Janice > > writes: > > > >>> to put an end to this: we don't have to prove jack SHIT to you. You > >>either > >>> believe or you don't. If you don't, then leave. You have no business > nor > >>> welcome here. > >> > >>This is quite ironic, considering that Bruce, as a frequent experiencer > >>of and staunch believer in psychic and other "woo-woo" phenomena, is a > >>favorite target of skeptics. :) > >> > > > >sorry then, Bruce... you got caught in the cross-fire. My bad. > > > > > > > s'okay., really. *fine* > > BD Bruce, I swear I can read your mind. : ) -- .............. Trish (Perspective - Use it or Lose it.) ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 22:41:07 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <20020318092623.13288.00000150@mb-ft.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-210.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84367 In article , sherilyn@suespammers.org says... > In message-id , > Janice wrote: > >Their curiosity was already aroused thanks to GH's crossposts to > >sci.skeptic. The point is to show them that not all skeptics share GH's > >view of the group. If it sounds less exciting than the picture GH > >painted, I figure those who only want to see a "kook-fest" won't be as > >interested in stopping by. > > > That's a risky venture. Not all who call themselves skeptics are likely > to care whether things aren't "interesting" in that sense. Garrison is > one of the nice ones. Could be--there's no accounting for certain fanatics--but on the other hand Ian's perspective might at least help salvage our respectability with more the reasonable readers. -- It hurts to admit when you make mistakes. But when they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### Lines: 14 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 19 Mar 2002 07:46:54 GMT References: <6Ewl8.17795$e33.14432@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-cj) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020319024654.03242.00000131@mb-cj.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84266 In article <6Ewl8.17795$e33.14432@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>, "The Countess" writes: >Not all >skeptics are these terrifying monsters, Dick. Why don't you slow down a >bit, stick with a conversation ... learn to accept some straightforward >skeptical questioning, and relax. that beer I had an hour ago REALLY helps! ;) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 15 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 19 Mar 2002 07:46:54 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-cj) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020319024654.03242.00000132@mb-cj.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84267 In article , Janice writes: >God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, >and God in him. > 1 John 4:16 > now you're out to charm me, aren't you? I came to that conclusion on my own ("God is Love") and used to preach it quite a bit during my mid to late 20's. To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 32 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 19 Mar 2002 07:46:55 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-cj) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020319024655.03242.00000133@mb-cj.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84271 In article , Janice writes: >> I would appreciate a copy of the original post. I'm not entirely certain I >was >> responding to Bruce, although I'm sure Janice wouldn't deliberately mislead >me. > >You were responding to Bruce. > >Bruce said: > >>> you took the wrong fork in the road, Sherilyn. My statement was >>> in reply to Dick's post (which you snipped!), ie: "prove that they >>> aren't". > >Then you said: > >> to put an end to this: we don't have to prove jack SHIT to you. >> You either believe or you don't. If you don't, then leave. >> You have no business nor welcome here. > I thought that post of mine felt -- somewhat wrong. Like I was going to regret it. I was in a particularly nasty mood back then, but I've recovered. Julia did me quite a bit of good just knowing the Good Witch of the East (from my POV) is around in case of trouble :) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 14 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 19 Mar 2002 07:46:56 GMT References: <9Tnl8.3078$0e1.493937@cletus.bright.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-cj) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020319024656.03242.00000134@mb-cj.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84274 In article <9Tnl8.3078$0e1.493937@cletus.bright.net>, "BD" writes: ds>> >>sorry then, Bruce... you got caught in the cross-fire. My bad. >s'okay., really. *fine* uh-oh... I've had it now... I've just been *fine*d... :) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <3c96ec4c.2390509@news.ntlworld.com> References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 6 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:26:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.84.34 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016526545 62.253.84.34 (Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:29:05 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:29:05 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!lon1-news.nildram.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84312 On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:46:07 -0500, Janice wrote: >The Fred Wedlock version, perhaps? Golly, do you have Fred Wedlock in America? ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <20020312144518.06778.00000173@mb-bh.aol.com> <6atj8.48505$Yd.2775272@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <20020312173104.12419.00000242@mb-ml.aol.com> <1f8z7yn.19jml091y5x01mN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <3c93ec1c.11174126@news.lynx.net> <20020317022232.04882.00000091@mb-cn.aol.com> <1f96rel.575jxd1att5c0N%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <20020317163036.13288.00000116@mb-ft.aol.com> <1f9796v.1nceonx14hr30yN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 21 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <5CHl8.113168$Yd.5757657@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:06:57 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:14:14 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hub1.nntpserver.com!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84382 "Sherilyn" wrote in message news:slrna9cohr.6e9.sherilyn@happy.sherilyn.org.uk... > In message-id , > Janice wrote: > >In article , > >lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > >> It's people who quote scriptures at all that get under my skin. > > > >Oh, boy! Now I know how to irritate you! ;-) > > > John 11:35 > -- > Sherilyn "Sorry, couldn't resist" Dammit. Now I'm not getting Janice's posts. Seeing it through Sherilyns. What is John 11:35, anyway? ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <20020312144518.06778.00000173@mb-bh.aol.com> <6atj8.48505$Yd.2775272@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <20020312173104.12419.00000242@mb-ml.aol.com> <1f8z7yn.19jml091y5x01mN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <3c93ec1c.11174126@news.lynx.net> <20020317022232.04882.00000091@mb-cn.aol.com> <1f96rel.575jxd1att5c0N%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <20020317163036.13288.00000116@mb-ft.aol.com> <1f9796v.1nceonx14hr30yN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <5CHl8.113168$Yd.5757657@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 24 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:21:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016547717 80.1.123.25 (Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:21:57 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:21:57 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.netcologne.de!newsfeed.online.be!isdnet!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-06!supernews.com!194.168.222.15.MISMATCH!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84233 In message-id <5CHl8.113168$Yd.5757657@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, lorz wrote: > >"Sherilyn" wrote in message >news:slrna9cohr.6e9.sherilyn@happy.sherilyn.org.uk... >> In message-id , >> Janice wrote: >> >In article , >> >lorz@bellsouth.net says... >> > >> >> It's people who quote scriptures at all that get under my skin. >> > >> >Oh, boy! Now I know how to irritate you! ;-) >> > >> John 11:35 >> -- >> Sherilyn "Sorry, couldn't resist" > >Dammit. Now I'm not getting Janice's posts. Seeing it through Sherilyns. >What is John 11:35, anyway? > It's John 11:35. -- Sherilyn ###### From: "marcus" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:42:22 -0600 Organization: Eizesay ethay ayday Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <20020312144518.06778.00000173@mb-bh.aol.com> <6atj8.48505$Yd.2775272@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <20020312173104.12419.00000242@mb-ml.aol.com> <1f8z7yn.19jml091y5x01mN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <3c93ec1c.11174126@news.lynx.net> <20020317022232.04882.00000091@mb-cn.aol.com> <1f96rel.575jxd1att5c0N%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <20020317163036.13288.00000116@mb-ft.aol.com> <1f9796v.1nceonx14hr30yN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <5CHl8.113168$Yd.5757657@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: r0057574.mayo.edu X-Trace: tribune.mayo.edu 1016548941 20994 172.22.193.244 (19 Mar 2002 14:42:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@mayo.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Mar 2002 14:42:21 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!peernews2.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hardy.tc.umn.edu!mayonews.mayo.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84252 "Sherilyn" wrote in message news:slrna9eic4.8fk.sherilyn@happy.sherilyn.org.uk... > In message-id <5CHl8.113168$Yd.5757657@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, > lorz wrote: > > > >"Sherilyn" wrote in message > >news:slrna9cohr.6e9.sherilyn@happy.sherilyn.org.uk... > >> In message-id , > >> Janice wrote: > >> >In article , > >> >lorz@bellsouth.net says... > >> > > >> >> It's people who quote scriptures at all that get under my skin. > >> > > >> >Oh, boy! Now I know how to irritate you! ;-) > >> > > >> John 11:35 > >> -- > >> Sherilyn "Sorry, couldn't resist" > > > >Dammit. Now I'm not getting Janice's posts. Seeing it through Sherilyns. > >What is John 11:35, anyway? > > > It's John 11:35. > -- > Sherilyn Jesus wept. ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <5D1j8.66$dn2.18@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <8Paj8.1830$dn2.352@nwrddc02.gnilink.net> <20020312144518.06778.00000173@mb-bh.aol.com> <6atj8.48505$Yd.2775272@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <20020312173104.12419.00000242@mb-ml.aol.com> <1f8z7yn.19jml091y5x01mN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <3c93ec1c.11174126@news.lynx.net> <20020317022232.04882.00000091@mb-cn.aol.com> <1f96rel.575jxd1att5c0N%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <20020317163036.13288.00000116@mb-ft.aol.com> <1f9796v.1nceonx14hr30yN%spnak@petitNOTmorte.net> <5CHl8.113168$Yd.5757657@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 19 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:53:04 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016549584 80.1.123.25 (Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:53:04 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:53:04 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84234 In message-id , marcus wrote: > >"Sherilyn" wrote in message >news:slrna9eic4.8fk.sherilyn@happy.sherilyn.org.uk... >> In message-id <5CHl8.113168$Yd.5757657@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, >> lorz wrote: [...] >> > >> >Dammit. Now I'm not getting Janice's posts. Seeing it through Sherilyns. >> >What is John 11:35, anyway? >> > >> It's John 11:35. > >Jesus wept. All right. No need to get snippy! -- Sherilyn ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:40:22 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> <3c96ec4c.2390509@news.ntlworld.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-982.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newshub.northeast.verio.net!verio!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84352 In article <3c96ec4c.2390509@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:46:07 -0500, Janice > wrote: > >The Fred Wedlock version, perhaps? > > Golly, do you have Fred Wedlock in America? I doubt that he's well known here. I heard him long ago when listening to folk music programs on the radio. Then there's Ivor Cutler: "Where the river bends the blind men fall in. Where the river bends the blind men fall in. Where do they come from, the blind men? Why do they all fall in? I don't know. And neither do they." ;-) -- It hurts to admit when you make mistakes. But when they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: "BD" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020317130831.03242.00000058@mb-cj.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 49 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: <4ZKl8.1$R64.113@cletus.bright.net> Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:07:11 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.198.109 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mhtc.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 1016560576 216.180.198.109 (Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:56:16 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:56:16 EST Organization: MHTC Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84258 Dick Silk wrote in message <20020317130831.03242.00000058@mb-cj.aol.com>... >In article , Ian H Spedding > writes: > >>> where is it that the USAF and their British counterparts go "penguin >>bowling"? >>> They fly their jets slowly overhead, and the penguins all tip their heads >>back >>> to watch, and all at once, the entire flock tips over backwards. >> >>The Falklands? Didn't research show that it didn't happen? > >I've heard it from at least two different sources. Not to say that they >weren't both repeating the same original source. But I tend to believe it on >the basis that some birds ARE that stupid. Turkeys, for instance, are rumored >to have to be brought in out of the rain. Otherwise, they tend to look up with >their beaks open and drown. Of course, that could just be an old wives' tale. >BUT: I guess it's more fun to believe it's true until proven otherwise. > I don't doubt the turkey drownings.... seem to recall reading about a farmer losing several hundred up here a few years back. I *do* know that a close kin of the turkey, the common chicken... is extremely fun and easy to dupe! As a kid I used to do this: catch a chicken (that's the really hard part!), and hold him firmly with his wings folded against his sides. Then gently lay him on the ground on his side, but firmly hold him there with one hand. Then you take a stick in the other hand and wave it around in front of his eyes, captivating him entirely. Lay the stick in front of his beak on the ground, let go of him, and quietly back away from him. The dumb chicken will lay there (as if you were still holding him), looking at that stick. I've seen them lay there for a full minute or two, before they realized they were no longer captive! It's a hoot! Hahahahahaaa! BD ###### From: "BD" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <5qKk8.2592$0e1.451666@cletus.bright.net> <20020317003431.03652.00000063@mb-fh.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 26 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:10:34 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.198.109 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mhtc.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 1016560779 216.180.198.109 (Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:59:39 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:59:39 EST Organization: MHTC Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84257 Dick Silk wrote in message <20020317003431.03652.00000063@mb-fh.aol.com>... >In article <5qKk8.2592$0e1.451666@cletus.bright.net>, "BD" >writes: > >>Thank you, Ian. But of course, Sherilyn *knew* what I meant, as well. She >>just likes twisting... misinterpretting... playing word-games, etc. Sheesh. >> > >haha... bd can dish it out but can't take it. 10 points for Ian ! :) Eh? You're really getting goofed up here, Dick. Ian? Can't take it? Dish it out? Eh? Lay off the booze/codiene mixture for the tooth! Hahahaha! :) BD ###### From: "BD" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 27 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:11:52 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.198.109 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mhtc.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 1016560857 216.180.198.109 (Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:00:57 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:00:57 EST Organization: MHTC Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84275 Dick Silk wrote in message <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com>... >In article , "BD" >writes: > >>you took the wrong fork in the road, Sherilyn. My statement was >>in reply to Dick's post (which you snipped!), ie: "prove that they aren't". > >to put an end to this: we don't have to prove jack SHIT to you. You either >believe or you don't. If you don't, then leave. You have no business nor >welcome here. BD ###### From: "BD" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020317130832.03242.00000059@mb-cj.aol.com> <9Tnl8.3078$0e1.493937@cletus.bright.net> <7Fwl8.17799$e33.3739@nwrddc01.gnilink.net> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 51 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:16:00 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.198.109 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mhtc.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 1016561106 216.180.198.109 (Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:05:06 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:05:06 EST Organization: MHTC Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84283 The Countess wrote in message <7Fwl8.17799$e33.3739@nwrddc01.gnilink.net>... > > > >BD wrote in message >news:9Tnl8.3078$0e1.493937@cletus.bright.net... >> >> Dick Silk wrote in message ><20020317130832.03242.00000059@mb-cj.aol.com>... >> >In article , Janice >> > writes: >> > >> >>> to put an end to this: we don't have to prove jack SHIT to you. You >> >>either >> >>> believe or you don't. If you don't, then leave. You have no business >> nor >> >>> welcome here. >> >> >> >>This is quite ironic, considering that Bruce, as a frequent experiencer >> >>of and staunch believer in psychic and other "woo-woo" phenomena, is a >> >>favorite target of skeptics. :) >> >> >> > >> >sorry then, Bruce... you got caught in the cross-fire. My bad. >> > >> > >> >> >> s'okay., really. *fine* >> >> BD > >Bruce, I swear I can read your mind. : ) >-- >.............. Trish And you doubted this.......when? ;) BD > > ###### From: sherilyn@suespammers.org (Sherilyn) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> <3c96ec4c.2390509@news.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 17 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:30:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.1.123.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016566250 80.1.123.25 (Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:30:50 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:30:50 GMT Organization: ntl Cablemodem News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!itgate.net!news.it.colt.net!peernews2.colt.net!pop-news-1.colt-telecom.nl!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!194.6.79.69.MISMATCH!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!sherilyn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84404 In message-id , Janice wrote: [...] > >Then there's Ivor Cutler: > >"Where the river bends the blind men fall in. >Where the river bends the blind men fall in. >Where do they come from, the blind men? >Why do they all fall in? I don't know. >And neither do they." > >;-) Now you're talking! -- Sherilyn ###### Lines: 19 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 19 Mar 2002 20:47:31 GMT References: <4ZKl8.1$R64.113@cletus.bright.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ft) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020319154731.13288.00000170@mb-ft.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84420 In article <4ZKl8.1$R64.113@cletus.bright.net>, "BD" writes: >As a kid I used to do this: catch a chicken (that's the really hard part!), >and hold him firmly with his wings folded against his sides. Then gently >lay him on the ground on his side, but firmly hold him there with one hand. >Then you take a stick in the other hand and wave it around in front of his >eyes, captivating him entirely. Lay the stick in front of his beak on the >ground, let go of him, and quietly back away from him. The dumb chicken >will lay there (as if you were still holding him), looking at that stick. >I've seen them lay there for a full minute or two, before they realized they >were no longer captive! It's a hoot! Hahahahahaaa! what about sticking their beaks under their wings? does that really put them to sleep? To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 18 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 19 Mar 2002 20:47:32 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ft) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020319154732.13288.00000171@mb-ft.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84421 In article , "BD" writes: >>haha... bd can dish it out but can't take it. 10 points for Ian ! :) > > > >Eh? You're really getting goofed up here, Dick. Ian? Can't take it? Dish >it out? Eh? Lay off the booze/codiene mixture for the tooth! Hahahaha! >:) > >BD "I'm so conFUSEd!" ... coulda sworn that volley went to Ian... To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <3c97e76f.514692@news.ntlworld.com> References: <20020317130831.03242.00000058@mb-cj.aol.com> <4ZKl8.1$R64.113@cletus.bright.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 20 Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:37:54 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.4.23 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016588424 62.255.4.23 (Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:40:24 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:40:24 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!194.6.79.69.MISMATCH!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84583 On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:07:11 -0800, "BD" wrote: >I don't doubt the turkey drownings.... seem to recall reading about a farmer >losing several hundred up here a few years back. I *do* know that a close >kin of the turkey, the common chicken... is extremely fun and easy to dupe! >As a kid I used to do this: catch a chicken (that's the really hard part!), >and hold him firmly with his wings folded against his sides. Then gently >lay him on the ground on his side, but firmly hold him there with one hand. >Then you take a stick in the other hand and wave it around in front of his >eyes, captivating him entirely. Lay the stick in front of his beak on the >ground, let go of him, and quietly back away from him. The dumb chicken >will lay there (as if you were still holding him), looking at that stick. >I've seen them lay there for a full minute or two, before they realized they >were no longer captive! It's a hoot! Hahahahahaaa! A friend of mine, who kept organic chickens, discovered that if you draw a chalk circle and then put one in it, so that her beak touches the circle, that the chicken will begin to slowly revolve inside the circle, following the chalk line, until you take pity on the poor thing. ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <3c97e818.683667@news.ntlworld.com> References: <20020319024655.03242.00000133@mb-cj.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 8 Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:38:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.4.23 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016588479 62.255.4.23 (Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:41:19 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:41:19 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84522 On 19 Mar 2002 07:46:55 GMT, silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) wrote: >I thought that post of mine felt -- somewhat wrong. Like I was going to regret >it. I was in a particularly nasty mood back then, but I've recovered. Julia >did me quite a bit of good just knowing the Good Witch of the East (from my >POV) is around in case of trouble :) Glad to be of service! ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <3c97e848.731923@news.ntlworld.com> References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> <3c96ec4c.2390509@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 37 Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:46:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.84.133 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016588914 62.253.84.133 (Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:48:34 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 01:48:34 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!lon1-news.nildram.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84500 On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:40:22 -0500, Janice wrote: >In article <3c96ec4c.2390509@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- >moore@ntlworld.com says... >> On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 13:46:07 -0500, Janice >> wrote: >> >The Fred Wedlock version, perhaps? >> >> Golly, do you have Fred Wedlock in America? > >I doubt that he's well known here. I heard him long ago when listening >to folk music programs on the radio. > >Then there's Ivor Cutler: > >"Where the river bends the blind men fall in. >Where the river bends the blind men fall in. >Where do they come from, the blind men? >Why do they all fall in? I don't know. >And neither do they." Then there's Les Barker: (I'll have to paraphrase, as I can't find the book) The queue to the P&O enquiry desk Stretched all the way through the hall, Sharing the loss of the Titanic And the people so dear to them all. When a wail rang out though the silence, From a sad-eyed young polar bear: "Is there any news of the iceberg? My family were on it you see. Is there any news of the iceberg? They meant the whole world to me." ###### From: "BD" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <4ZKl8.1$R64.113@cletus.bright.net> <20020319154731.13288.00000170@mb-ft.aol.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 36 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:47:48 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.198.178 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mhtc.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 1016584619 216.180.198.178 (Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:36:59 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:36:59 EST Organization: MHTC Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84596 Dick Silk wrote in message <20020319154731.13288.00000170@mb-ft.aol.com>... >In article <4ZKl8.1$R64.113@cletus.bright.net>, "BD" writes: > >>As a kid I used to do this: catch a chicken (that's the really hard part!), >>and hold him firmly with his wings folded against his sides. Then gently >>lay him on the ground on his side, but firmly hold him there with one hand. >>Then you take a stick in the other hand and wave it around in front of his >>eyes, captivating him entirely. Lay the stick in front of his beak on the >>ground, let go of him, and quietly back away from him. The dumb chicken >>will lay there (as if you were still holding him), looking at that stick. >>I've seen them lay there for a full minute or two, before they realized they >>were no longer captive! It's a hoot! Hahahahahaaa! > >what about sticking their beaks under their wings? does that really put them >to sleep? > Never tried that one. But I imagine it's the same thing... ie: the chicken can't see, so it thinks it's still being held. Not sleeping, per se...just scared shitless! You might say......he's,..... "chicken"! :) BD ###### Lines: 17 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 20 Mar 2002 07:10:55 GMT References: <3c97e818.683667@news.ntlworld.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-mu) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020320021055.11490.00000173@mb-mu.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!news.stealth.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84540 In article <3c97e818.683667@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) writes: >>I thought that post of mine felt -- somewhat wrong. Like I was going to regret it. I was in a particularly nasty mood back then, but I've recovered. Julia did me quite a bit of good just knowing the Good Witch of the East (from my POV) is around in case of trouble :) > >Glad to be of service! > thanks again :) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### Lines: 36 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 20 Mar 2002 07:10:56 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-mu) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020320021056.11490.00000174@mb-mu.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!195.54.122.107!newsfeed1.bredband.com!bredband!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84547 In article , "BD" writes: >Never tried that one. But I imagine it's the same thing... ie: the chicken >can't see, so it thinks it's still being held. Not sleeping, per se...just >scared shitless! You might say......he's,..... "chicken"! :) > why did the chicken cross the road? . . . . . . to prove to the possum it could be done! (In Texas, you might want to substitute an armadillo...) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 02:50:17 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> <3c96ec4c.2390509@news.ntlworld.com> <3c97e848.731923@news.ntlworld.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-274.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!opentransit.net!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84621 In article <3c97e848.731923@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > The queue to the P&O enquiry desk > Stretched all the way through the hall, > Sharing the loss of the Titanic > And the people so dear to them all. > When a wail rang out though the silence, > From a sad-eyed young polar bear: > > "Is there any news of the iceberg? > My family were on it you see. > Is there any news of the iceberg? > They meant the whole world to me." Waaaah. :) -- It hurts to admit when you make mistakes. But when they're big enough, the pain only lasts a second.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <3c9846ca.2954741@news.ntlworld.com> References: <20020317003431.03652.00000064@mb-fh.aol.com> <137l8.935$d%4.2348331@bcandid.telisphere.com> <3c96ec4c.2390509@news.ntlworld.com> <3c97e848.731923@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 33 Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:25:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.7.72 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1016612892 62.255.7.72 (Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:28:12 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 08:28:12 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!lon1-news.nildram.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84593 On Wed, 20 Mar 2002 02:50:17 -0500, Janice wrote: >In article <3c97e848.731923@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- >moore@ntlworld.com says... > >> The queue to the P&O enquiry desk >> Stretched all the way through the hall, >> Sharing the loss of the Titanic >> And the people so dear to them all. >> When a wail rang out though the silence, >> From a sad-eyed young polar bear: >> >> "Is there any news of the iceberg? >> My family were on it you see. >> Is there any news of the iceberg? >> They meant the whole world to me." > >Waaaah. :) Someone wrote a parody of it going; The queue to the greengrocer's till Stretched all the way through the shop, Considering the price of the lettuces For the people so dear to them all, When a wail rang out through the silence From a sad-eyed young caterpillar: "Is there any news of the iceberg? My family were on it you see. Is there any news of the iceberg? They meant the whole world to me." ###### Lines: 16 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: silkdick@aol.commune.net (Dick Silk) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 20 Mar 2002 15:05:06 GMT References: <3c9846ca.2954741@news.ntlworld.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: gng-ms) Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Message-ID: <20020320100506.14686.00000156@mb-ms.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!193.154.160.102.MISMATCH!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newsfeed.kpnqwest.at!news-hub.siol.net!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!64.12.151.226.MISMATCH!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84566 In article <3c9846ca.2954741@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) writes: >When a wail rang out through the silence >From a sad-eyed young caterpillar: > >"Is there any news of the iceberg? oh BOO! :) us Silkworms are very sensitive to those types of jokes, you understand... :) To send personal e-mail, please write to: richardcsilk at aol dot com. Thanks. All mail blocked from yahoo or hotmail accounts. ###### From: "BD" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <20020317130831.03242.00000058@mb-cj.aol.com> <4ZKl8.1$R64.113@cletus.bright.net> <3c97e76f.514692@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: insults (post flames here) Lines: 40 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 17:20:48 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.180.197.87 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mhtc.net X-Trace: cletus.bright.net 1016665799 216.180.197.87 (Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:09:59 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 18:09:59 EST Organization: MHTC Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cletus.bright.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:84732 Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message <3c97e76f.514692@news.ntlworld.com>... >On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:07:11 -0800, "BD" wrote: >>I don't doubt the turkey drownings.... seem to recall reading about a farmer >>losing several hundred up here a few years back. I *do* know that a close >>kin of the turkey, the common chicken... is extremely fun and easy to dupe! >>As a kid I used to do this: catch a chicken (that's the really hard part!), >>and hold him firmly with his wings folded against his sides. Then gently >>lay him on the ground on his side, but firmly hold him there with one hand. >>Then you take a stick in the other hand and wave it around in front of his >>eyes, captivating him entirely. Lay the stick in front of his beak on the >>ground, let go of him, and quietly back away from him. The dumb chicken >>will lay there (as if you were still holding him), looking at that stick. >>I've seen them lay there for a full minute or two, before they realized they >>were no longer captive! It's a hoot! Hahahahahaaa! > >A friend of mine, who kept organic chickens, discovered that if you >draw a chalk circle and then put one in it, so that her beak touches >the circle, that the chicken will begin to slowly revolve inside the >circle, following the chalk line, until you take pity on the poor >thing. LOL! That would be fun, too! Chopped off my share of chicken heads as a kid, too! Dad would holler at me to "throw them in the basket", but instead, I'd always rather letting them go....just to laugh as they ran and jumped across the yard with no heads! Hahahaha! BD >