From: biin@brainlink.com (; ; m o n k) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: iipc classes / workshops Date: 7 Jan 2002 11:22:14 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 5 Message-ID: <42a230ef.0201071122.33593e76@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 151.202.113.28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1010431334 19168 127.0.0.1 (7 Jan 2002 19:22:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Jan 2002 19:22:14 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:75920 does anyone here have expereince with the iipc, and if so what was it like? are they legit, they have a particular slant i should know about, was it worthwhile, etc.? ###### From: fo_x@hi_lar_ion.co_m (Jon C. Fox) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: iipc classes / workshops Message-ID: <3c3ff4ce.1601815@news.gotnet.net> References: <42a230ef.0201071122.33593e76@posting.google.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 135 Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 09:28:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.81.81.153 X-Complaints-To: admin@gotnet.net X-Trace: news-west.eli.net 1010827682 66.81.81.153 (Sat, 12 Jan 2002 02:28:02 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 02:28:02 MST Organization: Gottschalk Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!telocity-west!DirecTV-DSL!news-west.eli.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:76035 I have had experience with this group since 1997. Because they are non-profit, they work is not widely publicized. Although this keeps the costs of their workshops very low, it means that much of their research is not known to people otherwise familiar with the OBE. I have taken several of their classes and courses, and will offer my admittedly very personal opinions about these below. However, one thing they offer is to become a member of the IIPC. When you become a member, you receive their journal called "Journal of Conscientiology." [the study of consciousness] As an engineer, I read many scientific journals. The IIPC journal is an excellent attempt to treat the OBE and all that is associated with it as a scientific fact, and to publish all manner of related scientific information, collected research from others, interesting hypotheses, and so on - just like most any other scientific journal. I don't think you can just buy the journal, but it doesn't cost much to become an IIPC member (I think I paid $20) and then you get the journal. It is truly excellent - really nothing like it anywhere I have ever seen. I took their 5-weekend class series called the "CDP" series, for Consciousness Development Program. It is primarily focused on the OBE. I also took several of their one-day workshops on different topics. I also took their two "Extensions" or graduate classes, called ECP-1 and ECP-2. I found the CDP series to be excellent, with a good balance between classroom learning and practical techniques and experiments. I found the one-day workshops in general to be of little value. Most of the material in them was well covered in the CDP series, and in better depth. (Some of the one-day workshops I took were on the Existential Program, Intrusion, & Money and Livelihood). After you take the CDP series, you are eligible for the ECP-1 and ECP-2 classes. These were wild! It is very hard to compare them to anything you could imagine. I wouldn't know even where to begin. They were at once very challenging and very enjoyable and extremely stimulating. I gained many insights into myself and I think anyone who came to these classes with sincerity and a desire to improve one's consiousness would have many insights, too. One thing about IIPC you must keep in mind is that they have already taught over 100,000 people, most of them in Brazil. They do know how to get right to the heart of the matter, in regards to consiousness, OBE's, non-physical beings, how to enhance ludidity and memory while out of the body, and they are great at de-mystifying all of it. But in one sense, that they have so many direct experiences with so many adept OBE'ers means that some of their more experienced, highly intelligent teachers are somewhat opinionated. For instance, you may think that we have a group soul. That when you die, you "re-join" a larger group, or have an experience of this. But there are many teachers in IIPC who have full consious, continuous memory of the time they spent before incarnating, and their most recent past lives, etc. (Some of this has been investigated and published and it all holds up quite well under scrutiny.) And all those with these experiences agree that their memory and personal awareness was of their individuality, not as a "soul group." So, if you have a strong opinion about something, and you find that it conflicts with the experiences and consensus of these teachers, you are going to have to reconcile this for yourself. For instance, in the above example, I could still think that the group soul is a legitimate possibility, only that those teachers don't remember it, or they are not evolved enough to accept it, or that my concept of group soul is not something I am properly communicating, etc. But if I hold that because of my personal belief, not based on fact or any personal experience of my own, that I am right and they are wrong, should this topic come up they will directly challenge me. I think this is part of the "Brazilian Way," a cultural attitude I have encountered among some Brazilians, that is a truly "no bullshit" attitude, even in new age circles. Yes, I know this may sound odd to people used to the incredible variety of phenomena associated with Brazilian psychism - Joao de Deus, Dr Fritz, Spritism, Santeria, channeled paintings, etc - it would seem full of deception or beliefs not based on fact or science. But that is not what I mean. What I mean is a kind of cultural bias to "lay your cards on the table" at any and every opportunity, as an individual. So, if an IIPC teacher has had experiences that convince him or her of something, they will tell you so and you will be very impressed with their certainty in the matter! But, if you know any Brazilians or have seen any Brazilian movies, you will see this is just their personality, and not take it personally yourself. We must always be careful when applying our cultural criteria to other cultures. IIPC works with their graduates, who are interested in doing so, in furthering research. Not only on the OBE, but (more importantly) on its applications. Mental health is one area they are avidly exploring right now. They call it "Consciential Therapy." If you project your consciousness and view a typical ordinary therapy session, you will often see a non-physical being, or even several, hovering around the client, and sometimes the therapist. To do this well you need a full OBE, not just clairavoyence or clairsentience. In a conciential therapy session, the therapist is deliberately involving these non-physical beings. Helpers may be directed to send energy to the client in a certain way, or the client may be asked to open to the helpers energy. Helpers might make specific suggestions as to things for the client to think about or remember, or suggest the therapist say. Energy may be deliberately focused by the therapist on an intruder that is preventing the client from improving, or the therapist may direct the inquiry and the therapeutic process at the intruder, rather than at the client. (Edith Fiore, author of "Unquiet Dead," reports great success relieving clients of addictions with this method, long before IIPC coined the term "consciential therapy.") This interest in actually applying the OBE, not just relating to it as a "gee-whiz" phenomena, is the cornerstone of IIPC. So it is no accident that their teachers are very intelligent and multi-lingual. Most of them are fluent in English, Portuguese and Spanish, including fluency in spiritual and metaphysical terms, which isn't easy! In summary, I'd recommend taking the CDP classes and then deciding what to do next so far as IIPC is concerned. Their presentation was easy and fun, and one need not be good at OBE or especially intelligent to benfit from them. And I'd completely skip the one-day workshop classes. Just my opinion. jon fo_x@hi_lar_ion.co_m (remove anti-spam underscores to email) On 7 Jan 2002 11:22:14 -0800, biin@brainlink.com (; ; m o n k) wrote: >does anyone here have expereince with the iipc, and if so what was it >like? > >are they legit, they have a particular slant i should know about, was >it worthwhile, etc.? ###### From: - <-> Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: iipc classes / workshops Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 11:59:02 -0300 Message-ID: <69j04uoa3rlfor1t632q3jtjnatl6riv6d@4ax.com> References: <42a230ef.0201071122.33593e76@posting.google.com> <3c3ff4ce.1601815@news.gotnet.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 X-Authenticated-User: gbs747 X-Comments: This message was posted through Newsfeeds.com X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Newsfeeds.com does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Comments3: IMPORTANT: Under NO circumstances will postings containing illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to You may also use our online abuse reporting from: http://www.newsfeeds.com/abuseform.htm X-Path-Stamp: news.newsfeeds.com Organization: Usenet.com - #1 Newsgroups service on the planet! - http://www.Usenet.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de!news.rwth-aachen.de!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!propagator2-austin!propagator!feed2.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!news.usenet.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:76081 > >>does anyone here have expereince with the iipc, and if so what was it >>like? >> >>are they legit, they have a particular slant i should know about, was >>it worthwhile, etc.? Some years ago, if you were able to convince Waldo Vieira (founder of IIPC) about how serious you are interested in OBE, he would send you his 1000+ pages book, completely free of charge. Then you had the obligation to write down on the pages every thought/doubt you had. Then you send him back the book with your notes. Finally he would sent you a brand new edition. Yes, they are serious! (But I have never attended to classes.) -----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =----- http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! Check out our new Unlimited Server. No Download or Time Limits! -----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! ==----- ###### From: biin@brainlink.com (; ; m o n k) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: iipc classes / workshops Date: 12 Jan 2002 08:47:33 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 90 Message-ID: <42a230ef.0201120847.5042af39@posting.google.com> References: <42a230ef.0201071122.33593e76@posting.google.com> <3c3ff4ce.1601815@news.gotnet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 151.202.112.28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1010854053 18362 127.0.0.1 (12 Jan 2002 16:47:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Jan 2002 16:47:33 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-peer1!btnet!isdnet!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:76067 fo_x@hi_lar_ion.co_m (Jon C. Fox) wrote in message news:<3c3ff4ce.1601815@news.gotnet.net>... thanks for the well written and informational post! to clarify, becuase i'm asking more questions here, i'm new to the obe / projection phenomenon in practice, meaning i am willing to accept that it is a achievable by myslef and others, however at this point in time i've only had a few flukey borderline experiences, and recently did experience awaking to the famed 'vibes' due to a number of reasons, i feel that i'm on the right track, and not unreasonably, it is taking some time to reprogram my internal psyche to accept that i can stay awake while i fall asleep, or consciously project my energy body - as well i've been finishing some projects that keep me fairly sleep deprived, until the end of the month, after which time i expect to up my level of concentration towards obe / projection > I found the one-day workshops in general to be of little value. Most > of the material in them was well covered in the CDP series, and in > better depth. that is good to know, were you able to achieve projection, and to what regularity, or were you able to project before going, and did it improve thereafter, and do you still practice projection? > After you take the CDP series, you are eligible for the ECP-1 and > ECP-2 classes. These were wild! It is very hard to compare them to > anything you could imagine. I wouldn't know even where to begin. They > were at once very challenging and very enjoyable and extremely > stimulating. I gained many insights into myself and I think anyone who > came to these classes with sincerity and a desire to improve one's > consiousness would have many insights, too. do the ecp classes also reflect on obe, or are they of a more personal nature to the here and now psychology? > But in one sense, that they have so many direct experiences with so > many adept OBE'ers means that some of their more experienced, highly > intelligent teachers are somewhat opinionated. > So, if you have a strong opinion about something, and you find that it > conflicts with the experiences and consensus of these teachers, you > are going to have to reconcile this for yourself. > I think this is part of the "Brazilian Way," a cultural attitude I > have encountered among some Brazilians, that is a truly "no bullshit" > attitude, even in new age circles. > But, if you know any Brazilians or have seen any Brazilian movies, you > will see this is just their personality, and not take it personally > yourself. We must always be careful when applying our cultural > criteria to other cultures. agreed, i have experience with people from many different cultures, including brazil - and sometimes those 'challenging' attitudes (in demand for conformity of belief) could be representative of a mind controlling organization (cult), which could really move my feet in another direction - did you sense any pressure to complete a series of classes ever, or be offered follow ups for no charege, just curious? incidentally, how do the average and seasoned members view the founder of iipc, is it waldo veira)? have you a quick review of veira's 'projectionology' tome? > In summary, I'd recommend taking the CDP classes and then deciding > what to do next so far as IIPC is concerned. Their presentation was > easy and fun, and one need not be good at OBE or especially > intelligent to benfit from them. And I'd completely skip the one-day > workshop classes. Just my opinion. ok then, it seems like i might benefit, and being open-minded, i think i'll look into more . . . obliged / obligato > jon > fo_x@hi_lar_ion.co_m (remove anti-spam underscores to email) > > On 7 Jan 2002 11:22:14 -0800, biin@brainlink.com (; ; m o n k) wrote: > > >does anyone here have expereince with the iipc, and if so what was it > >like? > > > >are they legit, they have a particular slant i should know about, was > >it worthwhile, etc.? ###### From: "William Bliss" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <42a230ef.0201071122.33593e76@posting.google.com> <3c3ff4ce.1601815@news.gotnet.net> <42a230ef.0201120847.5042af39@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: iipc classes / workshops Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 20:36:05 -0500 Lines: 69 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 NNTP-Posting-Host: nopics.sjc Message-ID: <3c40e4ad$1_1@nopics.sjc> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!telocity-west!DirecTV-DSL!nopics.sjc!directvdsl.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:76089 "; ; m o n k" wrote in message news:42a230ef.0201120847.5042af39@posting.google.com... [...] > do the ecp classes also reflect on obe, or are they of a more personal > nature to the here and now psychology? The IIPC views are rather advanced. Whether or not the entirety of these advances have progressed in the correct direction is hard to say, but IMHO they're the best game in town. The IIPC considers the OBE to be far and away the most useful tool for promoting self-evolution. To this end, all of their courses revolve around the continuing progression of their students towards becoming lucid projectors. The ECP classes go considerably beyond projective techniques though. Fundamental to reincarnation theory is the assumption that more advanced souls have more advanced purposes on this Earth. Often, such souls will have spent many years between lives preparing for their next life and its possibly profound and highly interconnected purposes. ECP 1 is aimed at giving students the tools needed to help them discover their individual life purpose (existential program). ECP 2 is more energetically involved. Its content could be discribed as an introduction to "group karma" or the interconnected purposes of intraphysical society, reincarnation, and consciousness itself. This course, by its very nature is an introduction to the topic of multi-dimensional consciential research. [...] > agreed, i have experience with people from many different cultures, > including brazil - and sometimes those 'challenging' attitudes (in > demand for conformity of belief) could be representative of a mind > controlling organization (cult), which could really move my feet in > another direction - did you sense any pressure to complete a series of > classes ever, or be offered follow ups for no charege, just curious? I tend to think of cults as money grubbers, which the IIPC certainly isn't. For example! They do allow people to retake their classes (space permitting) for free. You won't see this at other OBE schools. OTOH, Their classes present a richly deep subject matter and a comensurately wide interpretation of same. Their interpretations are very non-sectarian but extremely ethically oriented. Rather than a cult I'd classify them as followers of a *very* youthful science. > incidentally, how do the average and seasoned members view the founder > of iipc, is it waldo veira)? Nice guy, has lots of ideas, prolific but under-organized writer... I'm not sure if he still retains that all important sense of self-doubt that differentiates an open minded researcher from the ordinary zealot that does research. I say this only because most of his recent work seems to be more of the same stuff rather than striving to address some of the outstanding logical gaps in the IIPC's world view (big subject). > have you a quick review of veira's 'projectionology' tome? Sorry! I haven't read that one yet. It won't be released in english until May. Waldo has several other translated books that are worth reading though. Hope this helps. Wm