Message-ID: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> From: Raistlin Majere User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Kundalini Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 2 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.173.97.23 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr16.news.prodigy.com 1003779135 ST000 63.173.97.23 (Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:32:15 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:32:15 EDT Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_@SBEFJSKR]\Y\BCDN_HAQB^H@IPDLXUNNHLHQAVTUZ]CLNTCPFK[WDXDHV[K^FCGJCJLPF_D_NCC@FUG^Q\DINVAXSLIFXYJSSCCALP@PB@\OS@BITWAH\CQZKJMMD^SJA^NXA\GVLSRBD^M_NW_F[YLVTWIGAXAQBOATKBBQRXECDFDMQ\DZFUE@\JM Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:32:15 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!news2.euro.net!newsgate.cistron.nl!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!207.115.63.138!newscon04.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr16.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72802 what is Kundalini? Can anyone explain how to accomplish this? ###### From: Spazzmodicus Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 22:18:16 +0000 (UTC) Organization: OWDS Inc. Lines: 12 Message-ID: <9r25v6$k07$2@news.chatlink.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust232.tnt5.louisville.ky.da.uu.net X-Trace: news.chatlink.com 1003789096 20487 63.25.211.232 (22 Oct 2001 22:18:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@chatlink.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 22:18:16 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Xnews/4.06.22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!uunet!lax.uu.net!sea.uu.net!news.chatlink.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72804 Raistlin Majere wrote in news:3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com: > what is Kundalini? Can anyone explain how to accomplish this? Yeah...it's a form of Oral Sex practiced only in Pakistan. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Spazzmodicus "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a persistent one" ###### Message-ID: <3BD4ADE2.1F60FD73@mediaone.net> From: Rick Merrill X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r25v6$k07$2@news.chatlink.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 23:34:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.218.3.132 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.ne.mediaone.net 1003793647 24.218.3.132 (Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:34:07 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:34:07 EDT Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!64.152.100.70!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!news-west.rr.com!news-east.rr.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!chnws06.ne.mediaone.net!24.91.0.34!typhoon.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72803 Spazzmodicus wrote: > Raistlin Majere wrote in > news:3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com: > > > what is Kundalini? Can anyone explain how to accomplish this? > > Yeah...it's a form of Oral Sex practiced only in Pakistan. b.s. "Kundalini is the very energy of the spirit and has nothing to do with sex or desire." - http://www.geocities.com/freeyourbrain/nofire.htm#arrival of kundalini There is NO sexual practice done ONLY in xyz - know what I mean?! Rick Merrill ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-zwpR1zlSy2TmitaviEfSlliMEt46nlavqFoiXQtRuSiUysK3nrL Lines: 29 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 20:48:54 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-w3P7EMxbb5yAvg1RHsP8/Loa0ue2X/OjcSRuLbXPXXmawMjV0lkujDkJ0FbFsUje4foPvTtXCTcsQku!dyRadYfRl8YtQqA3XC2pUvjHcskCmANRb2RFEmcdb6vkthsqGt2h+wq/5IKaDtcGDffBhs2zFNPN!byBVHatx5O2aS/Y9xBvHcg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 01:48:54 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!news-west.rr.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72810 In article <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com>, asulwer@yahoo.com says... > what is Kundalini? Can anyone explain how to accomplish this? Supposedly it's a kind of transformative spiritual energy that feels like a tremendous electrical current running through your body, especially up and down your spine. There are a host of very nasty physical and psychological symptoms that commonly go along with it, though having suffered almost all of them myself I'd have to say that many of them may actually be due to anxiety neurosis brought about by dwelling on the strangeness of it all, and thus not really bound to happen to everyone. I couldn't tell you how to initiate the energy sensation since for me it began spontaneously. Even if you don't have a nervous breakdown over it like I did, I don't see that there's much point to experimentally encouraging anything so freaky and disruptive on the vague hope of "expanding your consciousness" or something. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:38:12 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 35 Message-ID: <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.72.64 X-Server-Date: 24 Oct 2001 22:45:01 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72854 Raistlin Majere wrote in message <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com>... >what is Kundalini? Can anyone explain how to accomplish this? > As I understand it, Kundalini is an alignment of the nervous and limbic systems in the human body. The practice of "awakening" the Kundalini is best left to those who are on a serious spiritual path and are guided by a qualified teacher who is very interested in your personal development. It is not recommended that you attempt to achieve such an alignment by your own private effort because of the spiritual, mental, and physical confusion that accompanies the process. It will change you and you most likely will not be prepared for the change. In such a situation, only parts of you will be affected instead of the entire being - this can result in severe mental and/or physical problems because of the lack of balance. Don't play with Kundalini. Start with something like Tai Chi to balance your internal energies. Make sure that you first have control of your body and emotions in every respect (no anger, no cravings, nothing that could be considered an addiction). Then... you might find a teacher who would take you seriously enough to help you. Kundalini is a psycho/physical power - not spiritual. It is not necessary for spiritual growth. On the other hand... If you are serious about your spiritual development and are capable of concentrating on that development at a 24/7 rate, then the alignment will come naturally and Kundalini will become available to you. No shortcuts... Bart ###### From: spamnot@nothanks.com (ao) Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bd770b7.9846393@news1.on.sympatico.ca> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 14 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 02:04:20 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.92.71.230 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1003975100 65.92.71.230 (Wed, 24 Oct 2001 21:58:20 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 21:58:20 EDT Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72855 On Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:32:15 GMT, Raistlin Majere wrote: >what is Kundalini? Can anyone explain how to accomplish this? I can't tell you what kundalini is, but I can tell you with relative certainty what kundalini is not. Take everything you have ever heard, read, or imagined about what kundalini is, and you can be relatively certain that kundalini is not anything like any of those descriptions! Now perhaps you are one step closer to discovering what kundalini is. :-) /ao May all your thoughts be good ones... ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-3kNXOagi9egKYrR29TD0XKrF9qLEfGNDGR0szSc27vTu03FUMZi Lines: 33 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:45:25 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-tygKfcO09AFh7F4L/eImBsUQIkfq+NlOF8QWIcc67s01r7NLmgPQF4GLEFWo4xPAS0Rc/VUTpwdOmC8!mouRK4Vgy5GAQqmFC3AwZcned9wwll8iFNXAYVR4ZKhAz1rQZn5gzhxbs1R/zsocIXbHHZ+9KXN1!Tp1LMljZLBn4WMFk1XFgVA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 03:45:25 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.dtag.de!news.matavnet.hu!newsfeed.matavnet.hu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!easynews!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72888 In article <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com says... > Raistlin Majere wrote in message <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com>... > >what is Kundalini? Can anyone explain how to accomplish this? > > > > As I understand it, Kundalini is an alignment of the nervous and limbic > systems in the human body. The "limbic system" is part of the brain and hence is part of the nervous system. It is not a separate bodily system like the endocrine system or digestive system etc. Glad you brought that up, though. Speculations about limbic system activity are the closest thing I've seen to hint at a neurophysiological explanation for this stuff. The amygdala (one of the limbic system structures) supposedly mediates fear, and I sure felt like a panic button had been pressed and stuck in the "on" position in my brain. Now if only there were a good reason for that to have happened ... :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 01:40:45 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 52 Message-ID: <9r891e$vbs$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.77.8c X-Server-Date: 25 Oct 2001 05:47:26 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72860 Janice wrote in message ... >In article <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com >says... >> Raistlin Majere wrote in message <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com>... >> >what is Kundalini? Can anyone explain how to accomplish this? >> > >> >> As I understand it, Kundalini is an alignment of the nervous and limbic >> systems in the human body. > >The "limbic system" is part of the brain and hence is part of the nervous >system. It is not a separate bodily system like the endocrine system or >digestive system etc. Phhhhht.... ;-) Nothing in the body is actually separate. But the limbic system is a separate function from the voluntary nervous system. >Glad you brought that up, though. Speculations about limbic system >activity are the closest thing I've seen to hint at a neurophysiological >explanation for this stuff. The amygdala (one of the limbic system >structures) supposedly mediates fear, and I sure felt like a panic button >had been pressed and stuck in the "on" position in my brain. Now if only >there were a good reason for that to have happened ... :) I must admit I had a similar experience - but it was not "panic" or "fear". I would describe it as more of an "urgency" to maintain a high level of awareness. I did not feal fear, but I felt incredibly aware. There was a powerful mental clarity. Even my vision was enhanced to the point that I could actually "see" intelligence levels of other individuals (some might call this aura visualization but I wouldn't). I really felt that I had advanced to another form of life. I wasn't human anymore. I actually felt the touch of "divinity". But my body physically rattled sooooo much. There was an electric current flowing through me that was so powerfull that I felt I would burst into flame if I didn't maintain some kind of control. >The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter >is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan > >My homepage: >http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html > >The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: >http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html > >The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: >http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Night Child Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 95) Opera 5.11 [en] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Lines: 29 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:52:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.227.67.240 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1003999605 63.227.67.240 (Thu, 25 Oct 2001 03:46:45 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 03:46:45 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72829 On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 03:45:25 GMT, Janice wrote: > In article <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com > says... > > Raistlin Majere wrote in message <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com>... > > >what is Kundalini? Can anyone explain how to accomplish this? > > > > > > > As I understand it, Kundalini is an alignment of the nervous and limbic > > systems in the human body. > > The "limbic system" is part of the brain and hence is part of the nervous > system. It is not a separate bodily system like the endocrine system or > digestive system etc. > > Glad you brought that up, though. Speculations about limbic system > activity are the closest thing I've seen to hint at a neurophysiological > explanation for this stuff. The amygdala (one of the limbic system > structures) supposedly mediates fear, and I sure felt like a panic button > had been pressed and stuck in the "on" position in my brain. Now if only > there were a good reason for that to have happened ... :) > I think the neurological phenomenon known as 'kindling' is a plausable explaination. The term is usually used in reference to epilepsy but it doesn't necessarily have to result in seizure. And the limbic structures seem to be the most prone to kindling. NC ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <9r891e$vbs$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 65 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 06:23:06 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-yKFMRHoCu4t4nzHR9wl2nd1n7F9kYvRicJHigDn4AvSRVGWaRNeOBBsg04IJReVmDtg6fxc7DgJscJU!0pkAq1bL5nuOf88fih1rJVxfAOjjssBehqbY4y6TWKWzHSzocneDy/73118hHuIQkezTKAu9KGsr!EUP8V9Hqbw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:23:06 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.siscom.net!216.166.61.6.MISMATCH!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72897 In article <9r891e$vbs$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com says... > > Janice wrote in message ... > >In article <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com > >says... > > >> As I understand it, Kundalini is an alignment of the nervous and limbic > >> systems in the human body. > > > >The "limbic system" is part of the brain and hence is part of the nervous > >system. It is not a separate bodily system like the endocrine system or > >digestive system etc. > > Phhhhht.... ;-) Nothing in the body is actually separate. But the limbic > system is a separate function from the voluntary nervous system. OK, if you meant it that way. > >Glad you brought that up, though. Speculations about limbic system > >activity are the closest thing I've seen to hint at a neurophysiological > >explanation for this stuff. The amygdala (one of the limbic system > >structures) supposedly mediates fear, and I sure felt like a panic button > >had been pressed and stuck in the "on" position in my brain. Now if only > >there were a good reason for that to have happened ... :) > > I must admit I had a similar experience - but it was not "panic" or "fear". > I would describe it as more of an "urgency" to maintain a high level of > awareness. I did not feal fear, but I felt incredibly aware. There was a > powerful mental clarity. Even my vision was enhanced to the point that I > could actually "see" intelligence levels of other individuals (some might > call this aura visualization but I wouldn't). > > I really felt that I had advanced to another form of life. I wasn't human > anymore. I actually felt the touch of "divinity". Aw, no fair. ;-) You got the more far-out effects. I just got suffering. How long did this go on for you? > But my body physically > rattled sooooo much. There was an electric current flowing through me that > was so powerfull that I felt I would burst into flame if I didn't maintain > some kind of control. Yeah, I had the megavolts of electricity sensation too (that seems to be the baseline sensation that all these experiences have in common). I also felt like I was barely containing some kind of raw power that threatened to explode through my head. And that was just the beginning. :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 36 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 06:33:57 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-4FUKlyV344J4Z7LnFOqtX31I2aGP4ddtfCwl0cnzQVbYb2w7lfVB4iQPAacVTzogE0M08G36mgqmcGE!ibsWsSzKn//Nu6vxaWAed6nXu/KxtqN5N3H5+9GY5JatlP04li4V6i/SzfAlf9zBZ/rrrFpkknm1!MYyN6fdtjQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:33:57 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72909 In article <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket>, delete@nightc.usa.net says... > On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 03:45:25 GMT, Janice wrote: > > Glad you brought that up, though. Speculations about limbic system > > activity are the closest thing I've seen to hint at a neurophysiological > > explanation for this stuff. The amygdala (one of the limbic system > > structures) supposedly mediates fear, and I sure felt like a panic button > > had been pressed and stuck in the "on" position in my brain. Now if only > > there were a good reason for that to have happened ... :) > > I think the neurological phenomenon known as 'kindling' is a plausable > explaination. The term is usually used in reference to epilepsy but it doesn't > necessarily have to result in seizure. And the limbic structures seem to be > the most prone to kindling. Yes, I was reading a bit about kindling in this connection last night. What would set it off, though? Maybe a major serotonin deficit disinhibiting the limbic structures? I know that right before it happened to me I had spent several days with very little sleep or food (I was writing a soul-searching essay a little too intensely :), which may have knocked me out of whack chemically. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 10:09:36 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 38 Message-ID: <9r96rq$sg4$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <9r891e$vbs$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.74.09 X-Server-Date: 25 Oct 2001 14:16:26 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72862 Janice wrote in message ... >> I really felt that I had advanced to another form of life. I wasn't human >> anymore. I actually felt the touch of "divinity". > >Aw, no fair. ;-) You got the more far-out effects. I just got >suffering. > >How long did this go on for you? The main part of the experience lasted many hours until I finally managed to get to sleep - at which time I had an exceptional dream. But it was still rather intense for about a week. I really made an ass out of myself during that time - but I felt so certain of my actions. >> But my body physically >> rattled sooooo much. There was an electric current flowing through me that >> was so powerfull that I felt I would burst into flame if I didn't maintain >> some kind of control. > >Yeah, I had the megavolts of electricity sensation too (that seems to be >the baseline sensation that all these experiences have in common). I >also felt like I was barely containing some kind of raw power that >threatened to explode through my head. And that was just the beginning. >:) There were other things... I felt like I knew how to perform miracles. I was also certain that clairvoyants could see a light shining from me for miles. Bart ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 10:21:01 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 40 Message-ID: <9r97h6$rea$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.74.09 X-Server-Date: 25 Oct 2001 14:27:50 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72859 Janice wrote in message ... >In article <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket>, delete@nightc.usa.net >says... >> On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 03:45:25 GMT, Janice wrote: > >> > Glad you brought that up, though. Speculations about limbic system >> > activity are the closest thing I've seen to hint at a neurophysiological >> > explanation for this stuff. The amygdala (one of the limbic system >> > structures) supposedly mediates fear, and I sure felt like a panic button >> > had been pressed and stuck in the "on" position in my brain. Now if only >> > there were a good reason for that to have happened ... :) >> >> I think the neurological phenomenon known as 'kindling' is a plausable >> explaination. The term is usually used in reference to epilepsy but it doesn't >> necessarily have to result in seizure. And the limbic structures seem to be >> the most prone to kindling. > >Yes, I was reading a bit about kindling in this connection last night. >What would set it off, though? Maybe a major serotonin deficit >disinhibiting the limbic structures? I know that right before it >happened to me I had spent several days with very little sleep or food (I >was writing a soul-searching essay a little too intensely :), which may >have knocked me out of whack chemically. In my case I did it to myself. I had been quite intense with my esoteric studies for a long time. For several months I had been doing a specific spiritual exercise. Then suddenly everything came together in a single realization - the switch was flipped and the lights came on :-) Virtually all of my present beliefs came from that experience. Bart ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9r97h6$rea$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 46 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 10:08:44 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-CQq1K4SpL0RzZYsdrKdlXv/babINdaGqdAwqC7VgKyG2cIf0FCmZuhYt3vE9crV9O2qBWE026I+V1NF!qEM7TMrB5D7c4rQhk/xrCjQgLOtHMiQvjoJBykAkAEHzC1np/S1xoDXO3uBdlFS8JdeG82GIwGAd!cfiU2AZmpQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:08:44 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72914 In article <9r97h6$rea$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com says... > > Janice wrote in message ... > >In article <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket>, delete@nightc.usa.net > >says... > >> I think the neurological phenomenon known as 'kindling' is a plausable > >> explaination. The term is usually used in reference to epilepsy but it > doesn't > >> necessarily have to result in seizure. And the limbic structures seem to > be > >> the most prone to kindling. > > > >Yes, I was reading a bit about kindling in this connection last night. > >What would set it off, though? Maybe a major serotonin deficit > >disinhibiting the limbic structures? I know that right before it > >happened to me I had spent several days with very little sleep or food (I > >was writing a soul-searching essay a little too intensely :), which may > >have knocked me out of whack chemically. > > In my case I did it to myself. I had been quite intense with my esoteric > studies for a long time. For several months I had been doing a specific > spiritual exercise. Then suddenly everything came together in a single > realization - the switch was flipped and the lights came on :-) Virtually > all of my present beliefs came from that experience. Yes, some people get this effect after doing spiritual exercises but then there are us poor schmucks who get it spontaneously when we've never even heard of it. Unfortunately most of the ideas that flooded my mind at the time and during the dark and troubled months afterwards were nothing I'd be pleased to retain as beliefs. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <9r891e$vbs$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <9r96rq$sg4$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 61 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 10:33:55 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-OWnbd+pMuKBt86HjWvB+u9goyVBKSpUX61PiVIeC9zTxd6z10VzfBHbCvE97D3691mHS/7+MHETK5wa!jgmPZuUdUB13pM458i76pTxjlz4iOoJ46iBXxHrzV+kiK2VNDwylz90Sf5jmye8tPFRgT/20l39a!BgOLwgw7EQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:33:55 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72928 In article <9r96rq$sg4$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com says... > > Janice wrote in message ... > >How long did this go on for you? > > The main part of the experience lasted many hours until I finally managed to > get to sleep - at which time I had an exceptional dream. But it was still > rather intense for about a week. I really made an ass out of myself during > that time - but I felt so certain of my actions. I think in my case the full-bore power sensation and state of unbridled cosmic terror lasted several days. But I still felt like I had energy running up and down my spine for months, gradually lessening in intensity. Other physical effects such as headaches and burning sensations went on for months too, as did the anxiety, depression and nightmares. All told it took me the better part of a year to put myself back together after having been blown apart so spectacularly. But at least it inspired me to become more critically minded. :) > >> But my body physically > >> rattled sooooo much. There was an electric current flowing through me > that > >> was so powerfull that I felt I would burst into flame if I didn't > maintain > >> some kind of control. > > > >Yeah, I had the megavolts of electricity sensation too (that seems to be > >the baseline sensation that all these experiences have in common). I > >also felt like I was barely containing some kind of raw power that > >threatened to explode through my head. And that was just the beginning. > >:) > > There were other things... I felt like I knew how to perform miracles. I felt like I could shoot lightning from my fingertips, hurt and possibly kill people with my mind, and cause earthquakes and storms. Guess I was only in touch with the dark side of the force. ;) > I > was also certain that clairvoyants could see a light shining from me for > miles. I fancied eventually, after I had become a total wreck, that I was sending out a psychic beacon to occultists and passing negative entities. :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 45 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:45:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.107 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1004024732 208.26.165.107 (Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:45:32 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:45:32 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72879 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.1641c41cf62e0495989d1a@news.starlinx.com... > In article <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket>, delete@nightc.usa.net > says... > > On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 03:45:25 GMT, Janice wrote: > > > > Glad you brought that up, though. Speculations about limbic system > > > activity are the closest thing I've seen to hint at a neurophysiological > > > explanation for this stuff. The amygdala (one of the limbic system > > > structures) supposedly mediates fear, and I sure felt like a panic button > > > had been pressed and stuck in the "on" position in my brain. Now if only > > > there were a good reason for that to have happened ... :) > > > > I think the neurological phenomenon known as 'kindling' is a plausable > > explaination. The term is usually used in reference to epilepsy but it doesn't > > necessarily have to result in seizure. And the limbic structures seem to be > > the most prone to kindling. > > Yes, I was reading a bit about kindling in this connection last night. > What would set it off, though? Maybe a major serotonin deficit > disinhibiting the limbic structures? I know that right before it > happened to me I had spent several days with very little sleep or food (I > was writing a soul-searching essay a little too intensely :), which may > have knocked me out of whack chemically. I had a similar experience many years ago; a psychotic episode seemingly brought on by several factors including lack of food and sleep. Like you, I also had the sensation at one point of a huge amount of energy trying to escape through my head - as if it were on the verge of exploding. There was a book published in the 70's called 'The Eden Express' (written by Mark Vonnegut, the son of the novelist), describing his own very interesting bout with psychosis. It has the best description and explanation that I've read. I've also heard that some epileptic seizures can be described in semi-positive terms as 'enlightening' experiences. If these things have anything to do with Kundalini, I can see why you'd want to be careful with it. Enlightening experiences I don't mind, but I can do without the fried brain part. ###### Message-ID: <3BD870A1.9090106@yahoo.com> From: Raistlin Majere User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 67 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.173.97.23 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr16.news.prodigy.com 1004040086 ST000 63.173.97.23 (Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:01:26 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:01:26 EDT Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCTS@QR_\[BZNNO_TDEZXXPGLLEXRZKB]MPXHBTWICYFWUQBKZQLYJX\_ITFD_KFVLUN[DOM_A_NSYNWPFWNS[XV\I]PZ@BQ[@CDQDPCL^FKCBIPC@KLGEZEFNMDYMKHRL_YYYGDSSODXYN@[\BK[LVTWI@AXGQCOA_SAH@TPD^\AL\RLGRFWEARBM Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:01:26 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newsfeed.cwix.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr16.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72953 ok so the next question that i have is what is the process for performing this? Is there something i can read that takes me step by step through the process? I would like to read something about the process of performing it BEFORE I make a descision to try it. dorothy wrote: > "Janice" wrote in message > news:MPG.1641c41cf62e0495989d1a@news.starlinx.com... > >>In article <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket>, delete@nightc.usa.net >>says... >> >>>On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 03:45:25 GMT, Janice wrote: >>> >>>>Glad you brought that up, though. Speculations about limbic system >>>>activity are the closest thing I've seen to hint at a >>>> > neurophysiological > >>>>explanation for this stuff. The amygdala (one of the limbic system >>>>structures) supposedly mediates fear, and I sure felt like a panic >>>> > button > >>>>had been pressed and stuck in the "on" position in my brain. Now if >>>> > only > >>>>there were a good reason for that to have happened ... :) >>>> >>>I think the neurological phenomenon known as 'kindling' is a plausable >>>explaination. The term is usually used in reference to epilepsy but it >>> > doesn't > >>>necessarily have to result in seizure. And the limbic structures seem to >>> > be > >>>the most prone to kindling. >>> >>Yes, I was reading a bit about kindling in this connection last night. >>What would set it off, though? Maybe a major serotonin deficit >>disinhibiting the limbic structures? I know that right before it >>happened to me I had spent several days with very little sleep or food (I >>was writing a soul-searching essay a little too intensely :), which may >>have knocked me out of whack chemically. >> > > I had a similar experience many years ago; a psychotic episode seemingly > brought on by several factors including lack of food and sleep. Like you, I > also had the sensation at one point of a huge amount of energy trying to > escape through my head - as if it were on the verge of exploding. > > There was a book published in the 70's called 'The Eden Express' (written by > Mark Vonnegut, the son of the novelist), describing his own very interesting > bout with psychosis. It has the best description and explanation that I've > read. I've also heard that some epileptic seizures can be described in > semi-positive terms as 'enlightening' experiences. If these things have > anything to do with Kundalini, I can see why you'd want to be careful with > it. Enlightening experiences I don't mind, but I can do without the fried > brain part. > > > ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-6rI3/lRkgu9JiHxsNiZg1gkgy1HPzj6Ks0aW6zXLNib9ON4zMAt Lines: 52 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:28:17 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-s7RE4MdKgTSOtQa1/XAlQ5Q1xP0xmx8sYl/m++kbDwAnPaptZK/TGr+IWHkPIVCxAokJuTJf5Wul5Gg!MsA19F6X9tJXFZA9FWVgrC+ntPFFfN1t3sNk5IQ2HLPui5CnjVlZg16tBJLnv1nGfgqOB2Upn/7T!12l2NuWBQXXRgNtJoYflbQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:28:17 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!novia!novia!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72884 In article , dorthd@televar.com says... > "Janice" wrote in message > news:MPG.1641c41cf62e0495989d1a@news.starlinx.com... > > Yes, I was reading a bit about kindling in this connection last night. > > What would set it off, though? Maybe a major serotonin deficit > > disinhibiting the limbic structures? I know that right before it > > happened to me I had spent several days with very little sleep or food (I > > was writing a soul-searching essay a little too intensely :), which may > > have knocked me out of whack chemically. > > I had a similar experience many years ago; a psychotic episode seemingly > brought on by several factors including lack of food and sleep. Like you, I > also had the sensation at one point of a huge amount of energy trying to > escape through my head - as if it were on the verge of exploding. Yay, another member of the fried brain club! :) Hardly a cause for celebration though, really. It's ghastly. Did you get over it relatively quickly? > There was a book published in the 70's called 'The Eden Express' (written by > Mark Vonnegut, the son of the novelist), describing his own very interesting > bout with psychosis. It has the best description and explanation that I've > read. Can you sum up the explanation? > I've also heard that some epileptic seizures can be described in > semi-positive terms as 'enlightening' experiences. If these things have > anything to do with Kundalini, I can see why you'd want to be careful with > it. Enlightening experiences I don't mind, but I can do without the fried > brain part. Amen to that. My whole nervous system was toast. Even two months later a slight stimulation such as seeing people kiss on TV would make me burn all over. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 63 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:38:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.179 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1004049488 208.26.165.179 (Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:38:08 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:38:08 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72882 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.164241589738694a989d21@news.starlinx.com... > In article , dorthd@televar.com > says... > > "Janice" wrote in message > > news:MPG.1641c41cf62e0495989d1a@news.starlinx.com... > > > > Yes, I was reading a bit about kindling in this connection last night. > > > What would set it off, though? Maybe a major serotonin deficit > > > disinhibiting the limbic structures? I know that right before it > > > happened to me I had spent several days with very little sleep or food (I > > > was writing a soul-searching essay a little too intensely :), which may > > > have knocked me out of whack chemically. > > > > I had a similar experience many years ago; a psychotic episode seemingly > > brought on by several factors including lack of food and sleep. Like you, I > > also had the sensation at one point of a huge amount of energy trying to > > escape through my head - as if it were on the verge of exploding. > > Yay, another member of the fried brain club! :) > > Hardly a cause for celebration though, really. It's ghastly. Did you > get over it relatively quickly? The exploding head part only lasted for part of a day, but I was mentally blasted for a good 3 or 4 months. > > There was a book published in the 70's called 'The Eden Express' (written by > > Mark Vonnegut, the son of the novelist), describing his own very interesting > > bout with psychosis. It has the best description and explanation that I've > > read. > > Can you sum up the explanation? Basically he emphasized the chemical imbalance angle, as well as it was understood in those days. Vonnegut went on to become a medical doctor, BTW. An interesting bit of synchronicity (which gave me a bit of a jolt when I read 'Eden Express' afterwards, was the fact that Vonnegut's psychosis occurred almost exactly the same time as mine did (in the same week, as I recall). Even stranger was the fact that I was reading a Vonnegut novel (Sirens of Titan, I think) as my symptoms escalated. > > I've also heard that some epileptic seizures can be described in > > semi-positive terms as 'enlightening' experiences. If these things have > > anything to do with Kundalini, I can see why you'd want to be careful with > > it. Enlightening experiences I don't mind, but I can do without the fried > > brain part. > > Amen to that. My whole nervous system was toast. Even two months later > a slight stimulation such as seeing people kiss on TV would make me burn > all over. Did you think the radio was delivering special messages to you, like I did? ###### From: fakeID@whatever.ca (skippydee) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Lynx Communications Inc. Cache-Post-Path: news1.lynx.bc.ca!unknown@vanip-128-173.eseenet.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 67 Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 01:20:20 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.82.88.221 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 19:20:20 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news1.tor.metronet.ca!news1.cal.metronet.ca!news1.van.metronet.ca!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72832 On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:28:17 GMT, Janice wrote: >In article , dorthd@televar.com >says... >> "Janice" wrote in message >> news:MPG.1641c41cf62e0495989d1a@news.starlinx.com... > >> > Yes, I was reading a bit about kindling in this connection last night. >> > What would set it off, though? Maybe a major serotonin deficit >> > disinhibiting the limbic structures? I know that right before it >> > happened to me I had spent several days with very little sleep or food (I >> > was writing a soul-searching essay a little too intensely :), which may >> > have knocked me out of whack chemically. >> >> I had a similar experience many years ago; a psychotic episode seemingly >> brought on by several factors including lack of food and sleep. Like you, I >> also had the sensation at one point of a huge amount of energy trying to >> escape through my head - as if it were on the verge of exploding. > >Yay, another member of the fried brain club! :) Awww, I wanna be a member of the fried brain club too-ooo (ascending whine note). Don't know if this is similar, but I was sitting in a cushy chair and looking out the window at a nice sunset and was listening to Sarah McLachlan's "Fumbling Towards Ecstacy" album (how appropriate). Well, at the part where she sings "I won't fear love" it was like my brain knocked down a huge mental block. It felt like a wave of tangible love was flowing through my head and body. Quite nifty. I probably posted this story a long time ago (see, my brain's fried). > >Hardly a cause for celebration though, really. It's ghastly. Did you >get over it relatively quickly? > >> There was a book published in the 70's called 'The Eden Express' (written by >> Mark Vonnegut, the son of the novelist), describing his own very interesting >> bout with psychosis. It has the best description and explanation that I've >> read. > >Can you sum up the explanation? > >> I've also heard that some epileptic seizures can be described in >> semi-positive terms as 'enlightening' experiences. If these things have >> anything to do with Kundalini, I can see why you'd want to be careful with >> it. Enlightening experiences I don't mind, but I can do without the fried >> brain part. > >Amen to that. My whole nervous system was toast. Even two months later >a slight stimulation such as seeing people kiss on TV would make me burn >all over. If you were able to, did you try physical exercise--and did it help at all? I went through a time several years ago where I had an excess of nervous energy which included a feeling that I could send 'energy' (as in spirit energy) from my chest area...kind of like a shiver. I also developed a bad jaw-grinding habit. It helped to make sure I went for a jog 2 or 3 times a week and, for what it's worth, it seemed to help when I did the 'chest shiver' thing (I pictured sending energy to people who looked like they could use it). The (chest) energy-sending thing seemed to work when I was oob once, but whether it works (energy sent and received) while in-body I don't know. I still do it, BTW, when I'm feeling charged-up and generous. -leo ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-5+fLEN46mqfRtja1cK/kNBduYjvE2ZmRSCIAL1vKNxUho73Kl4r Lines: 45 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:32:45 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-yIARm9gxnrnKP+U/2KGd3qm3sUFm78PWwVGHTU+5W/GqVzl3FLEJzSdlbV7FkZdL8icKVeqMqiTUP24!96ia+ils63lSVUMO+tR06GWPoMd/qEqpexbzt3WFv8D32B4DVEGcSG0VN+TfSeish0hYb32Eolf6!qrHOBWwxE8OmZRANhPWAJA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 01:32:45 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!nntp.abs.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72900 In article , dorthd@televar.com says... > "Janice" wrote in message > news:MPG.164241589738694a989d21@news.starlinx.com... > > Hardly a cause for celebration though, really. It's ghastly. Did you > > get over it relatively quickly? > > The exploding head part only lasted for part of a day, but I was mentally > blasted for a good 3 or 4 months. Hopefully you didn't have a trusted "friend" claiming responsibility for the effect to gain a sense of power over you, like I did. > > Can you sum up the [Vonnegut] explanation? > > Basically he emphasized the chemical imbalance angle, as well as it was > understood in those days. Vonnegut went on to become a medical doctor, BTW. > An interesting bit of synchronicity (which gave me a bit of a jolt when I > read 'Eden Express' afterwards, was the fact that Vonnegut's psychosis > occurred almost exactly the same time as mine did (in the same week, as I > recall). Even stranger was the fact that I was reading a Vonnegut novel > (Sirens of Titan, I think) as my symptoms escalated. Mine occurred in mid January 1992. > Did you think the radio was delivering special messages to you, like I did? No, I missed out on that one (and, thankfully, the spontaneous yogic postures, LOL). Instead I heard voices, including my own, which was arguing with me. :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 58 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:01:19 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-P9tKCiqW8A6J0u6QQ7pud5+LSO8BNYo01SaWSnCg5+yrynGuWxzHFx8wg9rEyt9kdPVJfndr94V24bW!8v72gKTyu7Od6sBJ0sGJFRxQg8eNXoNuial3ZVwfiJB8+3m8arVxRTM4lPcvjcNJSAWlfsA8vrua!l5dxH4LY5Q== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:01:19 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72922 In article <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net>, fakeID@whatever.ca says... > On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:28:17 GMT, Janice wrote: > >Yay, another member of the fried brain club! :) > > Awww, I wanna be a member of the fried brain club too-ooo (ascending > whine note). I'll check with Anthony Hopkins. ;-) > Don't know if this is similar, but I was sitting in a > cushy chair and looking out the window at a nice sunset and was > listening to Sarah McLachlan's "Fumbling Towards Ecstacy" album (how > appropriate). Well, at the part where she sings "I won't fear love" it > was like my brain knocked down a huge mental block. It felt like a > wave of tangible love was flowing through my head and body. Quite > nifty. > I probably posted this story a long time ago (see, my brain's > fried). That's pleasant ecstatic experience. Doesn't count. :-Þ > If you were able to, did you try physical exercise--and did it help at > all? When I had recovered enough (and the weather had turned nicer) that's exactly what I did. Bike riding specifically. Eating sugar doughnuts helped too, but the effect was always short-lived. Well, the alleviation of the symptoms was short-lived ... other effects of that remedy are still with me. ;-) > I went through a time several years ago where I had an excess of > nervous energy which included a feeling that I could send 'energy' (as > in spirit energy) from my chest area...kind of like a shiver. I also > developed a bad jaw-grinding habit. It helped to make sure I went for > a jog 2 or 3 times a week and, for what it's worth, it seemed to help > when I did the 'chest shiver' thing (I pictured sending energy to > people who looked like they could use it). The (chest) energy-sending > thing seemed to work when I was oob once, but whether it works (energy > sent and received) while in-body I don't know. I still do it, BTW, > when I'm feeling charged-up and generous. [shudder] No one would want the "energies" I had at the time. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 52 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:09:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.137 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1004062193 208.26.165.137 (Thu, 25 Oct 2001 19:09:53 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 19:09:53 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72876 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.164288bb6f983406989d26@news.starlinx.com... > In article , dorthd@televar.com > says... > > "Janice" wrote in message > > news:MPG.164241589738694a989d21@news.starlinx.com... > > > > Hardly a cause for celebration though, really. It's ghastly. Did you > > > get over it relatively quickly? > > > > The exploding head part only lasted for part of a day, but I was mentally > > blasted for a good 3 or 4 months. > > Hopefully you didn't have a trusted "friend" claiming responsibility for > the effect to gain a sense of power over you, like I did. Thankfully, no. > > > Can you sum up the [Vonnegut] explanation? > > > > Basically he emphasized the chemical imbalance angle, as well as it was > > understood in those days. Vonnegut went on to become a medical doctor, BTW. > > An interesting bit of synchronicity (which gave me a bit of a jolt when I > > read 'Eden Express' afterwards, was the fact that Vonnegut's psychosis > > occurred almost exactly the same time as mine did (in the same week, as I > > recall). Even stranger was the fact that I was reading a Vonnegut novel > > (Sirens of Titan, I think) as my symptoms escalated. > > Mine occurred in mid January 1992. Mine was also in January, but way back in '71. > > Did you think the radio was delivering special messages to you, like I did? > > No, I missed out on that one (and, thankfully, the spontaneous yogic > postures, LOL). You're kidding! I did that! Is that funny, or what!? Instead I heard voices, including my own, which was > arguing with me. :) I heard voices in the shower water, but I couldn't understand what they were saying. (Imagine that!) Never could figure out those radio messages, either. ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 44 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:14:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.137 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1004062454 208.26.165.137 (Thu, 25 Oct 2001 19:14:14 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 19:14:14 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72877 "skippydee" wrote in message news:3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net... > On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:28:17 GMT, Janice wrote: > > >In article , dorthd@televar.com > >says... > >> "Janice" wrote in message > >> news:MPG.1641c41cf62e0495989d1a@news.starlinx.com... > > > >> > Yes, I was reading a bit about kindling in this connection last night. > >> > What would set it off, though? Maybe a major serotonin deficit > >> > disinhibiting the limbic structures? I know that right before it > >> > happened to me I had spent several days with very little sleep or food (I > >> > was writing a soul-searching essay a little too intensely :), which may > >> > have knocked me out of whack chemically. > >> > >> I had a similar experience many years ago; a psychotic episode seemingly > >> brought on by several factors including lack of food and sleep. Like you, I > >> also had the sensation at one point of a huge amount of energy trying to > >> escape through my head - as if it were on the verge of exploding. > > > >Yay, another member of the fried brain club! :) > > Awww, I wanna be a member of the fried brain club too-ooo (ascending > whine note). Don't know if this is similar, but I was sitting in a > cushy chair and looking out the window at a nice sunset and was > listening to Sarah McLachlan's "Fumbling Towards Ecstacy" album (how > appropriate). Well, at the part where she sings "I won't fear love" it > was like my brain knocked down a huge mental block. It felt like a > wave of tangible love was flowing through my head and body. Quite > nifty. > I probably posted this story a long time ago (see, my brain's > fried). No, no, Leo, that's far too tame to qualify. Better luck next time. ###### From: fakeID@whatever.ca (skippydee) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bd9c8ef.4114601@news.lynx.net> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Organization: Lynx Communications Inc. Cache-Post-Path: news1.lynx.bc.ca!unknown@vanip-128-211.eseenet.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 46 Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:27:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.82.88.221 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:27:43 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news1.tor.metronet.ca!news1.cal.metronet.ca!news1.van.metronet.ca!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72839 On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:01:19 GMT, Janice wrote: >In article <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net>, fakeID@whatever.ca says... >> On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:28:17 GMT, Janice wrote: > >> >Yay, another member of the fried brain club! :) >> >> Awww, I wanna be a member of the fried brain club too-ooo (ascending >> whine note). > >I'll check with Anthony Hopkins. ;-) Ooooh. Yucky. > >> Don't know if this is similar, but I was sitting in a >> cushy chair and looking out the window at a nice sunset and was >> listening to Sarah McLachlan's "Fumbling Towards Ecstacy" album (how >> appropriate). Well, at the part where she sings "I won't fear love" it >> was like my brain knocked down a huge mental block. It felt like a >> wave of tangible love was flowing through my head and body. Quite >> nifty. >> I probably posted this story a long time ago (see, my brain's >> fried). > >That's pleasant ecstatic experience. Doesn't count. :-Þ Okay. What you describe does sound horrific and I hope you never have to go through it again! > >> If you were able to, did you try physical exercise--and did it help at >> all? > >When I had recovered enough (and the weather had turned nicer) that's >exactly what I did. Bike riding specifically. > >Eating sugar doughnuts helped too, but the effect was always short-lived. >Well, the alleviation of the symptoms was short-lived ... other effects >of that remedy are still with me. ;-) [...] Ah, Mrs. Willman's powdered cake doughnuts...and no eating doughnuts while you're riding the bike. -leo ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-xWXnNnLm9a2NlsSmP73SpCc2eN9n7VtfMej2mSllAXk0LyuoQkS Lines: 51 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:16:53 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-UfoZmK5e0lFqyZmS/1lmw+8orc9PLY9zlqNufB0VDTE4GIwx/jmjRKvpsT3UypuZbM12SqOzKZSXy8W!Pgutfx3QZ4eV6o8B4FZRlnbmu13RxVd4GYg6sOCy0FsCpPUE+9IgERse1Qa5O1BjwqHd/pkKRHoO!65pOznTEdaomqMsliMKNJA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 03:16:53 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72901 In article , dorthd@televar.com says... > "Janice" wrote in message > > Mine occurred in mid January 1992. > > Mine was also in January, but way back in '71. Must be something not quite right about January ... :-) > > > Did you think the radio was delivering special messages to you, like I > did? > > > > No, I missed out on that one (and, thankfully, the spontaneous yogic > > postures, LOL). > > You're kidding! I did that! Is that funny, or what!? You did the spontaneous yogic postures in addition to hearing radio messages? I read about the yoga thing just the other day, and was glad I hadn't had that particular bizarre symptom (I didn't have the spontaneous vocalizations either, but that may be because I was keeping my jaws clamped tightly shut to keep from screaming). Maybe it's really a matter of writhing in agony. :D > I heard voices in the shower water, but I couldn't understand what they were > saying. (Imagine that!) Never could figure out those radio messages, either. I heard some loud and clear New Age profundities, such as: "Your first concern is death. To die, is to live." "Emotions cradle the power of being, to be disclosed." "Integrating pain for harmonious holistic growth." "Get rid of the devil, Janice." -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd9c8ef.4114601@news.lynx.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-izwf0rZUuDjIgTtOU+HbMx+B/JjswJBfa1ICwSxhhN38MqqMsF7 Lines: 36 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:22:54 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-seDdR6jlsjj6K3cc3nKHU6Q3Je0HDbCldlB96kP6dn3Rhxoc6Lgpcw/Ja9SsRlQ9ui8fSQ6SOTBJ7ff!Vc5E3hrJCICyXz6ueA8vt9uhYVPkrx+Qo4WPTwA3Q+RD/nLvmlEl3YJXj2U8C1SCuNIPdC/7RhEV!8qFl475AMzJ6KEElB9RDvQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 03:22:54 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72915 In article <3bd9c8ef.4114601@news.lynx.net>, fakeID@whatever.ca says... > On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 02:01:19 GMT, Janice wrote: > > >In article <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net>, fakeID@whatever.ca says... > >> On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:28:17 GMT, Janice wrote: > >> Awww, I wanna be a member of the fried brain club too-ooo (ascending > >> whine note). > > > >I'll check with Anthony Hopkins. ;-) > > Ooooh. Yucky. Nah, I wouldn't do that to you. Only Trish wants to meet my inner cannibal. > >That's pleasant ecstatic experience. Doesn't count. :-Þ > > Okay. What you describe does sound horrific and I hope you never have > to go through it again! Me too! Whatever's behind it, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 45 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 04:17:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.137 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1004069876 208.26.165.137 (Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:17:56 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:17:56 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72885 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.1642a12156b3d361989d2c@news.starlinx.com... > In article , dorthd@televar.com > says... > > > > Did you think the radio was delivering special messages to you, like I > > did? > > > > > > No, I missed out on that one (and, thankfully, the spontaneous yogic > > > postures, LOL). > > > > You're kidding! I did that! Is that funny, or what!? > > You did the spontaneous yogic postures in addition to hearing radio > messages? I read about the yoga thing just the other day, and was glad I > hadn't had that particular bizarre symptom. Aw, it wasn't so bad. :-) I've just now read what must've been the same article. I also recall doing a sort of odd 'dance' like the article describes (though I was lying down at the time). It's intriguing, really. I wonder why those particular 'symptoms' are so common in that situation? It's like some bird or other creature that does a "mating dance" or something that's triggered by some unfathomable and complex set of circumstances. I wonder if it's a genetic feature that goes back to the early eras of human history? Anyway, now that I'm 'enlightened' about this, if the topic ever comes up I can just say I had a spontaneous Kundalini awakening. Sounds a lot better than "nervous breakdown". LOL. > I heard some loud and clear New Age profundities, such as: > > "Your first concern is death. To die, is to live." > > "Emotions cradle the power of being, to be disclosed." > > "Integrating pain for harmonious holistic growth." > > "Get rid of the devil, Janice." Hey, I like that last one! Simple and to the point. :-) ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-tizNtD7HS+ZvbcLosCnH9BEYuXGEAtAYm+LeQzHkOFACf6OrS1l Lines: 57 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 00:00:53 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-E0mBJPybP9uc22K1iWneb7gD7gZf2PcwJJXVOSNZXg8opW2lrnO5rTSjGPxeMkaqXFrYPKhrtnljr9R!U/N9uzbh5jYxkdvHVwFRsVDsbdWTUKxijKcNx14qqiXIzd3hwMPGbfjFagOL604S7r6107suKaxc!3817pVx+HFX3EwXSarhu X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 05:00:53 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fu-berlin.de!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72905 In article , dorthd@televar.com says... > I've just now read what must've been the same article. I also recall doing a > sort of odd 'dance' like the article describes (though I was lying down at > the time). I don't remember doing anything like that. My legs would tremble alot, though, and once I collapsed on the floor. > It's intriguing, really. I wonder why those particular > 'symptoms' are so common in that situation? It's like some bird or other > creature that does a "mating dance" or something that's triggered by some > unfathomable and complex set of circumstances. I wonder if it's a genetic > feature that goes back to the early eras of human history? Perhaps one that says: "Don't mate with me, my brain is defective and we wouldn't want to pass that on." :-D > Anyway, now that I'm 'enlightened' about this, if the topic ever comes up I > can just say I had a spontaneous Kundalini awakening. Sounds a lot better > than "nervous breakdown". LOL. Yeah, it sounds so much more glorious to call it a mystical initiation, or a baptism by fire, or the divine madness, or as I prefer to call it, a dinner date with the Goddess Kali. > > I heard some loud and clear New Age profundities, such as: > > > > "Your first concern is death. To die, is to live." > > > > "Emotions cradle the power of being, to be disclosed." > > > > "Integrating pain for harmonious holistic growth." > > > > "Get rid of the devil, Janice." > > Hey, I like that last one! Simple and to the point. :-) Ack. I found that one the most befuddling. Which devil? Lucifer, or that devil of a Scotsman who wanted this to happen to me, or the devil that I imagined might be animating one of my recurrent dream characters unbeknownst to me, or my pride, or my anger, or my self-loathing ... -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 62 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 05:08:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.137 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1004072906 208.26.165.137 (Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:08:26 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:08:26 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72886 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.1642b983b2f41e8989d2e@news.starlinx.com... > In article , dorthd@televar.com > says... > > > I've just now read what must've been the same article. I also recall doing a > > sort of odd 'dance' like the article describes (though I was lying down at > > the time). > > I don't remember doing anything like that. My legs would tremble alot, > though, and once I collapsed on the floor. > > > It's intriguing, really. I wonder why those particular > > 'symptoms' are so common in that situation? It's like some bird or other > > creature that does a "mating dance" or something that's triggered by some > > unfathomable and complex set of circumstances. I wonder if it's a genetic > > feature that goes back to the early eras of human history? > > Perhaps one that says: "Don't mate with me, my brain is defective and we > wouldn't want to pass that on." :-D Hah! > > Anyway, now that I'm 'enlightened' about this, if the topic ever comes up I > > can just say I had a spontaneous Kundalini awakening. Sounds a lot better > > than "nervous breakdown". LOL. > > Yeah, it sounds so much more glorious to call it a mystical initiation, > or a baptism by fire, or the divine madness, or as I prefer to call it, a > dinner date with the Goddess Kali. Agreed! > > > I heard some loud and clear New Age profundities, such as: > > > > > > "Your first concern is death. To die, is to live." > > > > > > "Emotions cradle the power of being, to be disclosed." > > > > > > "Integrating pain for harmonious holistic growth." > > > > > > "Get rid of the devil, Janice." > > > > Hey, I like that last one! Simple and to the point. :-) > > Ack. I found that one the most befuddling. Which devil? Lucifer, or > that devil of a Scotsman who wanted this to happen to me, or the devil > that I imagined might be animating one of my recurrent dream characters > unbeknownst to me, or my pride, or my anger, or my self-loathing ... Any or all of the above. The message is still beautifully clear. Well, Janice, looks like we're the last ones up burning the midnight oil. That's it for me, I think. Til tomorrow.... ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-MVqSJSYIuPDMbAXF3knwF2y5o6pLqbPTD0dsJBuUWVZWVk+bpzy Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 00:32:25 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-79QuhAu6OkCSFz1fLFYcGMIifRfKTilZmPnjH6YuhH834Ba1/JEGHdG7zlqJZOYXzdxLiAxEXg3SMIE!4e72DdkxND8VmdyGhTdRDBZjOMWZ3ojza17DogoSBRj0vl6dn6QGl+keFcHwPeR514/DwImsvMmP!sv1Gyn7rBp1Pj0AAoCsy4w== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 05:32:25 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.siscom.net!216.166.61.6.MISMATCH!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72904 In article , dorthd@televar.com says... > "Janice" wrote in message > news:MPG.1642b983b2f41e8989d2e@news.starlinx.com... > > Yeah, it sounds so much more glorious to call it a mystical initiation, > > or a baptism by fire, or the divine madness, or as I prefer to call it, a > > dinner date with the Goddess Kali. > > Agreed! But then I sober up and it's a nervous breakdown again. > Well, Janice, looks like we're the last ones up burning the midnight oil. > That's it for me, I think. Til tomorrow.... Sweet dreams. :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bd90d14.1487721@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 28 Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:16:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.88.137 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004084224 62.253.88.137 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:17:04 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:17:04 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!grolier!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72851 On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:38:08 GMT, "dorothy" wrote: >> > There was a book published in the 70's called 'The Eden Express' >(written by >> > Mark Vonnegut, the son of the novelist), describing his own very >interesting >> > bout with psychosis. It has the best description and explanation that >I've >> > read. >> >> Can you sum up the explanation? > >Basically he emphasized the chemical imbalance angle, as well as it was >understood in those days. Vonnegut went on to become a medical doctor, BTW. >An interesting bit of synchronicity (which gave me a bit of a jolt when I >read 'Eden Express' afterwards, was the fact that Vonnegut's psychosis >occurred almost exactly the same time as mine did (in the same week, as I >recall). Even stranger was the fact that I was reading a Vonnegut novel >(Sirens of Titan, I think) as my symptoms escalated. Have you met him? If not, have you written to him and identified these similarities, together with your own situation now? What is his 'take' on this now? I am sure he would be intrigued - authors are a very curious species, you know. It sounds as though he has a message for you to receive, and perhaps you have one for him. Follow the signposts, or you lose the path. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bd91023.2271156@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 43 Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:16:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.88.137 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004084225 62.253.88.137 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:17:05 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:17:05 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!feeder.qis.net!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72848 On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 05:00:53 GMT, Janice wrote: >Yeah, it sounds so much more glorious to call it a mystical initiation, >or a baptism by fire, or the divine madness, or as I prefer to call it, a >dinner date with the Goddess Kali. Ie, a Shamanic Death. >> > I heard some loud and clear New Age profundities, such as: >> > >> > "Your first concern is death. To die, is to live." >> > >> > "Emotions cradle the power of being, to be disclosed." >> > >> > "Integrating pain for harmonious holistic growth." These may seem profund but Shamanically they are profound. These all have a genuine Shamanic significance, and a loud and clear message. Shamanic reinterpretations would be: Without the lesser death/s, the power of the soul is unrecognised. A person exists and is empowered through their negotiations with the invading and enveloping world. Emotional pain is the truth strugggling to emerge. >> > "Get rid of the devil, Janice." >Ack. I found that one the most befuddling. Which devil? Lucifer, or >that devil of a Scotsman who wanted this to happen to me, or the devil >that I imagined might be animating one of my recurrent dream characters >unbeknownst to me, or my pride, or my anger, or my self-loathing ... To a Shaman, this would be a loud clear message. He would then rattle around you to detect exactly which devil had to go , and expel it. In this case, it would probably be the human personification of the archetypes you mention, and the shaman would banish the invading person, cut the ties and seal off the injuries you had received from that person. Such injuries can be caused unwittingly and unconsciously, but if a person knew what he was doing with energy abuse, could be devastating. You already suspect this person did that. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 33 Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:16:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.88.137 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004084226 62.253.88.137 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:17:06 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:17:06 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!shale.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!isdnet!grolier!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72849 On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 01:20:20 GMT, fakeID@whatever.ca (skippydee) wrote: >I went through a time several years ago where I had an excess of >nervous energy which included a feeling that I could send 'energy' (as >in spirit energy) from my chest area...kind of like a shiver. I also >developed a bad jaw-grinding habit. The jaw grinding is an advanced kundalini process. The tongue repeatedly and automatically stabs against the top palate, and eventually wears a hole there. It also rubs against the lower teeth until it loosens and cuts through the membrane attaching the tongue to the l;ower palate. The freed tongue then pushes up into the skull, and against the third eye gland (wossitcalled? The one that is stimulated by eating teh fruit of the tree that Buddha sat under?) . A flow of 'nectar' is released which provides inner psychic sustenance. People can stop eating at this point, often for months or years in rarefied conditions (ie sitting silently meditating permanently and being looked after - it is not the latest fad diet!). This happens spontaneously in meditation, in class during Tibetan Pulsing, or to Californian Instant Karmacists who use knives to slash the tongue and upper palate. > It helped to make sure I went for >a jog 2 or 3 times a week and, for what it's worth, it seemed to help >when I did the 'chest shiver' thing (I pictured sending energy to >people who looked like they could use it). The (chest) energy-sending >thing seemed to work when I was oob once, but whether it works (energy >sent and received) while in-body I don't know. I still do it, BTW, >when I'm feeling charged-up and generous. Ooooh, please send a few jolts to me, I felt the last one you posted! Love from Julia Julia ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:04:14 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 53 Message-ID: <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.71.79 X-Server-Date: 26 Oct 2001 15:12:38 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72867 Janice wrote in message ... >In article , dorthd@televar.com >says... >> "Janice" wrote in message > >> > Mine occurred in mid January 1992. >> >> Mine was also in January, but way back in '71. > >Must be something not quite right about January ... :-) '80 >> > > Did you think the radio was delivering special messages to you, like I >> did? >> > >> > No, I missed out on that one (and, thankfully, the spontaneous yogic >> > postures, LOL). >> >> You're kidding! I did that! Is that funny, or what!? > >You did the spontaneous yogic postures in addition to hearing radio >messages? I read about the yoga thing just the other day, and was glad I >hadn't had that particular bizarre symptom I have never heard of that one being common, but I definately had something like it. My hand kept going up like I was about to bless someone.... :-\ >I heard some loud and clear New Age profundities, such as: > >"Your first concern is death. To die, is to live." > >"Emotions cradle the power of being, to be disclosed." > >"Integrating pain for harmonious holistic growth." > >"Get rid of the devil, Janice." "I am the Light." "I am the Truth - he beginning and the end of all reality." "I am Awareness. I live in all things and all things live in me." "No one goes to the Father except by me." Bart ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 53 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:13:52 EDT Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:18:51 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72938 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.16428f672d885ebe989d2b@news.starlinx.com... > In article <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net>, fakeID@whatever.ca says... > > On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 20:28:17 GMT, Janice wrote: > > > >Yay, another member of the fried brain club! :) > > > > Awww, I wanna be a member of the fried brain club too-ooo (ascending > > whine note). > > I'll check with Anthony Hopkins. ;-) > > > Don't know if this is similar, but I was sitting in a > > cushy chair and looking out the window at a nice sunset and was > > listening to Sarah McLachlan's "Fumbling Towards Ecstacy" album (how > > appropriate). Well, at the part where she sings "I won't fear love" it > > was like my brain knocked down a huge mental block. It felt like a > > wave of tangible love was flowing through my head and body. Quite > > nifty. > > I probably posted this story a long time ago (see, my brain's > > fried). > > That's pleasant ecstatic experience. Doesn't count. :-Þ > > > If you were able to, did you try physical exercise--and did it help at > > all? > > When I had recovered enough (and the weather had turned nicer) that's > exactly what I did. Bike riding specifically. > > Eating sugar doughnuts helped too, but the effect was always short-lived. > Well, the alleviation of the symptoms was short-lived ... other effects > of that remedy are still with me. ;-) > > > I went through a time several years ago where I had an excess of > > nervous energy which included a feeling that I could send 'energy' (as > > in spirit energy) from my chest area...kind of like a shiver. I also > > developed a bad jaw-grinding habit. It helped to make sure I went for > > a jog 2 or 3 times a week and, for what it's worth, it seemed to help > > when I did the 'chest shiver' thing (I pictured sending energy to > > people who looked like they could use it). The (chest) energy-sending > > thing seemed to work when I was oob once, but whether it works (energy > > sent and received) while in-body I don't know. I still do it, BTW, > > when I'm feeling charged-up and generous. > > [shudder] No one would want the "energies" I had at the time. > > -- Ewww I don't even like reading this thread ! :( ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd91023.2271156@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-4R230dIMQ6iSzZdCH8KEiMEFmfjv2M5l4EAcJnE2HTMqGCoGX/I Lines: 78 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:01:41 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-lEF+qTOE6DPx70eDqdWeg5laTL067YQzmfIyMnarK3cuiF9IrdyojbZ6Ooc1k1u8eVYN3VZPKJ1gCLm!TQCgpYJ8dqbUS7BqXBgxj5IJRE3v48YYtReeJBzcQWKojgZ/7p0AjI5XSc+V2ncaliuFfV+tE7T5!yk2WC7mV/XPr+nv6xgL5tA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:01:41 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72912 In article <3bd91023.2271156@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 05:00:53 GMT, Janice wrote: > >Yeah, it sounds so much more glorious to call it a mystical initiation, > >or a baptism by fire, or the divine madness, or as I prefer to call it, a > >dinner date with the Goddess Kali. > > Ie, a Shamanic Death. I came across a bit of poetry at a website about Kali that captures this shamanic death idea in a metaphorical way: http://www.angelfire.com/va/goddesses/kali.html > >> > I heard some loud and clear New Age profundities, such as: > >> > > >> > "Your first concern is death. To die, is to live." > >> > > >> > "Emotions cradle the power of being, to be disclosed." > >> > > >> > "Integrating pain for harmonious holistic growth." > > These may seem profund but Shamanically they are profound. These all > have a genuine Shamanic significance, and a loud and clear message. > Shamanic reinterpretations would be: > > Without the lesser death/s, the power of the soul is unrecognised. Yes, I understood the "symbolic death and rebirth" interpretation of that one. :) > A person exists and is empowered through their negotiations with the > invading and enveloping world. Hm, that one I had interpreted to mean that the various overpowering emotions I was feeling at the time were the birth pangs of a new, more personally empowered self, or something like that. > Emotional pain is the truth strugggling to emerge. That one seemed to be referring to acknowledging repressed pain for the purpose of personal development etc. etc. > >> > "Get rid of the devil, Janice." > >Ack. I found that one the most befuddling. Which devil? Lucifer, or > >that devil of a Scotsman who wanted this to happen to me, or the devil > >that I imagined might be animating one of my recurrent dream characters > >unbeknownst to me, or my pride, or my anger, or my self-loathing ... > > To a Shaman, this would be a loud clear message. He would then rattle > around you to detect exactly which devil had to go , and expel it. > In this case, it would probably be the human personification of the > archetypes you mention, and the shaman would banish the invading > person, cut the ties and seal off the injuries you had received from > that person. Once of the other voices I heard said, with a coldly angry tone, "Who did this to you?" so I was certainly thinking in those terms at the time. > Such injuries can be caused unwittingly and > unconsciously, but if a person knew what he was doing with energy > abuse, could be devastating. You already suspect this person did that. I know that he wanted to. That's bad enough in my book. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-NCTH9ShD6oHijWdz9Pt1bY1M0jwmIyccs2eBq1MZhLQs3cHQWQa Lines: 45 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:07:02 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-ZyMqZfLJn7KTRBxbqPla/PMbbfwZydkH/l/qUUg9PcMkaqrYrnMM7trnkkdY+Kliql1PDBvirVttBE0!hObn8fNdDIJQ3BsnU7OmAtJwucJCnmbDooFncgZJp/Wehqoj/aSXW6Kc4J63CC9j9NnzL/DAdOJJ!dh5qpcakrQo2z1W7j+GXcg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:07:02 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72920 In article <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 01:20:20 GMT, fakeID@whatever.ca (skippydee) > wrote: > >I went through a time several years ago where I had an excess of > >nervous energy which included a feeling that I could send 'energy' (as > >in spirit energy) from my chest area...kind of like a shiver. I also > >developed a bad jaw-grinding habit. > > The jaw grinding is an advanced kundalini process. The tongue > repeatedly and automatically stabs against the top palate, and > eventually wears a hole there. It also rubs against the lower teeth > until it loosens and cuts through the membrane attaching the tongue to > the l;ower palate. The freed tongue then pushes up into the skull, and > against the third eye gland (wossitcalled? The one that is stimulated > by eating teh fruit of the tree that Buddha sat under?) . The pituitary. This sounds rather more dramatic than garden-variety bruxism, which might be all that Leo meant ... > A flow of 'nectar' is released which provides inner psychic > sustenance. People can stop eating at this point, often for months or > years in rarefied conditions (ie sitting silently meditating > permanently and being looked after - it is not the latest fad diet!). > This happens spontaneously in meditation, in class during Tibetan > Pulsing, or to Californian Instant Karmacists who use knives to slash > the tongue and upper palate. Eew, gross. :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd91023.2271156@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 14 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:09:09 EDT Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:08:00 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72936 > > -- > > The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter > is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan > Who was Henry Porter? ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd90d14.1487721@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 41 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:20:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.199 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1004116847 208.26.165.199 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:20:47 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:20:47 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72895 "Julia Hawkes-Moore" wrote in message news:3bd90d14.1487721@news.ntlworld.com... > On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 22:38:08 GMT, "dorothy" > wrote: > >> > There was a book published in the 70's called 'The Eden Express' > >(written by > >> > Mark Vonnegut, the son of the novelist), describing his own very > >interesting > >> > bout with psychosis. It has the best description and explanation that > >I've > >> > read. > >> > >> Can you sum up the explanation? > > > >Basically he emphasized the chemical imbalance angle, as well as it was > >understood in those days. Vonnegut went on to become a medical doctor, BTW. > >An interesting bit of synchronicity (which gave me a bit of a jolt when I > >read 'Eden Express' afterwards, was the fact that Vonnegut's psychosis > >occurred almost exactly the same time as mine did (in the same week, as I > >recall). Even stranger was the fact that I was reading a Vonnegut novel > >(Sirens of Titan, I think) as my symptoms escalated. > > Have you met him? If not, have you written to him and identified these > similarities, together with your own situation now? What is his 'take' > on this now? I am sure he would be intrigued - authors are a very > curious species, you know. It sounds as though he has a message for > you to receive, and perhaps you have one for him. > Follow the signposts, or you lose the path. > Love from Julia > Julia I did actually write to Kurt V. at the time but never heard back from him. Anyway, this was about 30 years ago, Julia. Why would someone who doesn't know me "have a message" for me? I "got" plenty from his books, I think. Anyway, I certainly don't think that life is so structured that I'll "lose my path" if I don't follow up on every chance circumstance that occurs to me. I'd have pursued relationships with plenty of rock stars if that were the case. ;-) ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-Ov836PHmHl9KkaW94IP+4dIygBFDOxpqNSYjD2eDIuGksqfyWzs Lines: 48 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:22:23 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-RVIxuCth3VyXgAk4H7Vdt8vxIfnH7befpqGtWMiA0Zi24ANJHyWpHg/w/VPgBZftAVAeN7eqJBxWbHO!4mEp1vW7ChgGZi0/PtJshohXiV9Wqt4AgToRaqQgkNdZv3/sMHcQsXbkz6WolFLFie8bzC3/lZEz!vXCq0E2p9TCCADOaGInXWw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:22:23 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72896 In article <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com says... > > Janice wrote in message ... > > >Must be something not quite right about January ... :-) > > '80 Are you saying you're another January kundalini baby? > >You did the spontaneous yogic postures in addition to hearing radio > >messages? I read about the yoga thing just the other day, and was glad I > >hadn't had that particular bizarre symptom > > I have never heard of that one being common, but I definately had something > like it. My hand kept going up like I was about to bless someone.... :-\ "Saint Bart." Has a nice ring to it. :) You seem to have mixed feelings about your experience now. On the one hand you say it inspired your current beliefs, but on the other hand you think you reacted peculiarly at the time; is that about right? > "I am the Light." > > "I am the Truth - he beginning and the end of all reality." > > "I am Awareness. I live in all things and all things live in me." > > "No one goes to the Father except by me." You heard these phrases? Sounds like the voice was cribbing from the New Testament a bit. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 55 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:18:26 EDT Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:23:26 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72937 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.1643674de7f02191989d34@news.starlinx.com... > In article <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com > says... > > > > Janice wrote in message ... > > > > >Must be something not quite right about January ... :-) > > > > '80 > > Are you saying you're another January kundalini baby? > > > >You did the spontaneous yogic postures in addition to hearing radio > > >messages? I read about the yoga thing just the other day, and was glad I > > >hadn't had that particular bizarre symptom > > > > I have never heard of that one being common, but I definately had something > > like it. My hand kept going up like I was about to bless someone.... :-\ > > "Saint Bart." Has a nice ring to it. :) > > You seem to have mixed feelings about your experience now. On the one > hand you say it inspired your current beliefs, but on the other hand you > think you reacted peculiarly at the time; is that about right? > > > "I am the Light." > > > > "I am the Truth - he beginning and the end of all reality." > > > > "I am Awareness. I live in all things and all things live in me." > > > > "No one goes to the Father except by me." > > You heard these phrases? Sounds like the voice was cribbing from the New > Testament a bit. > > -- I wonder if that's what that Anne Heche was going through. All these sounds famaliar with what she was going through and how she felt in her book. I'm not promoting her book or anything but the things you all are saying ring a bell in her experience. Although much of what she went through in her childhood I believe is what led her to these feelings. Well, that and prehaps drugs. I believe she was into E at the time which sort of gives you those type feelings as well. I may be way off track here as I don't know much about Kundalini but has me wondering...Hmmmm. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-LoBfhwtM4cSDcxn43Q45ZZwq1r/gqcpY8tMYnFaXdUoy3ADgQDE Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:44:07 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-biCUBhDnB2KTZaSOB6lnnJXLAP9fIw93OkJfJBDnlAmVqCGF4kYOcz2uIaVOill8j1Co+E3GvpZaXkA!OBzRTqVI3O91IGZ7aiAHWCxciiXo2+vsVHuVC4gDJeHkHyH9c8sn0Ogw0Nk8mS31v+LoqXsZeOeT!/R0JB+bgxCvflXGSwAGLvw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:44:07 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72926 In article , lorz@bellsouth.net says... > Ewww I don't even like reading this thread ! :( Can't blame you. This definitely falls into the "freaky shit" category, even when you just interpret it as a kind of nervous breakdown. But perhaps now your "It" seems tame in comparison? :) To keep on topic: I remember starting one OBE during a nap on the couch while I was depressed, just one of those humdrum things in sleep paralysis I'd done countless times before where it feels like duplicate limbs start to separate etc., and panicking, "Oh, God! They're right! It IS real!" :D -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd91023.2271156@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-WXE7RdBK3rBhck1+SU0CglTTz7o5t2BmyfM1u4BpbLoBXBxw1E0 Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:18:55 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-1Twi/NyQrqGsHkzoE9h7sSLsZR1fc5auzJXpe13CSTVkR8rzjeeFhsWY9NuRm4Gf3vyC1VefL2QfrU2!V5WSDnbjizcakFRTCRrkLlWVOJ6L7be4+MFFLq+akVF4wJ3DEFRXCjldKM4cZbxQDOi5d1XtAwQm!D4qjRWhloL6o1XniHKqkUw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:18:55 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72907 In article , lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter > > is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan > > > > Who was Henry Porter? A character in the song "Brownsville Girl." -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 44 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:15:06 EDT Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:20:06 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.dtag.de!news.matavnet.hu!newsfeed.matavnet.hu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!newsfeed.frii.net!64.152.100.70.MISMATCH!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72940 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.16436c61dfdcb42f989d35@news.starlinx.com... > In article , > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > Ewww I don't even like reading this thread ! :( > > Can't blame you. This definitely falls into the "freaky shit" category, > even when you just interpret it as a kind of nervous breakdown. But > perhaps now your "It" seems tame in comparison? :) > > To keep on topic: I remember starting one OBE during a nap on the couch > while I was depressed, just one of those humdrum things in sleep > paralysis I'd done countless times before where it feels like duplicate > limbs start to separate etc., and panicking, "Oh, God! They're right! > It IS real!" :D > > -- Well yeah. That is always how I feel when I have an OBE. At that moment and during the experience I always am thinking "Oh God! This is real!". Right afterwards I always feel it was definitely real. Later I start doubting it as I think of all the things you have told me and the more scientific, neurological explanations that it could be other than the metaphysical. I feel very strongly at the time it is happening though that it is real because I am thinking very clearly and it isnt like a dream where things don't make sense. You know how in a typical dream or even in an LD things just don't seem as real and have wierd happenings in them where when you wake up you laugh at the sillyness of them? Well, in my truest feeling OBE's there is *no* dream. There aren't other people roaming around and such. It's just an awareness, a feeling of being here and being out there somewhere at the same time. And for me a feeling of dread. The head swirling and vibration thingie that occurs along with this doesn't feel anything like any dream. I always am aware and alert. It never feels as if I wake up afterwards. I just get pull out of it. I wonder have you ever had it like that? When you and others sometimes describe what you consider to be OBE's they seem to me to be highly aware LD's. Now I know youconsider an OBE to be a highly aware LD but there is a distinction for me. The two seem very different. ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 16:01:34 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 64 Message-ID: <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.75.cd X-Server-Date: 26 Oct 2001 20:11:18 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72976 Janice wrote in message ... >In article <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com >says... >> >> Janice wrote in message ... >> >> >Must be something not quite right about January ... :-) >> >> '80 > >Are you saying you're another January kundalini baby? Sorry. I don't recall the month. >> >You did the spontaneous yogic postures in addition to hearing radio >> >messages? I read about the yoga thing just the other day, and was glad I >> >hadn't had that particular bizarre symptom >> >> I have never heard of that one being common, but I definately had something >> like it. My hand kept going up like I was about to bless someone.... :-\ > >"Saint Bart." Has a nice ring to it. :) How about "Lord Bartholomew"? ;-) >You seem to have mixed feelings about your experience now. On the one >hand you say it inspired your current beliefs, but on the other hand you >think you reacted peculiarly at the time; is that about right? Yes, I do have mixed feelings about it. Your comment about "Divine Madness" was fairly accurate. The experience was intense, but the only REAL uncomfortable thing about it was that I could not maintain the high level of awareness and my actions eventually lost all substance to became an embarrassing memory. >> "I am the Light." >> >> "I am the Truth - the beginning and the end of all reality." >> >> "I am Awareness. I live in all things and all things live in me." >> >> "No one goes to the Father except by me." > >You heard these phrases? Sounds like the voice was cribbing from the New >Testament a bit. You are correct, of course. The thing is, at the time, I knew exactly what these words meant. Instead of seeing them as the words of an individual named "Jesus" - they became the words of "Consciousness" Itself. I identified with consciousness as a whole - not as an individual. It was like doors in my being were opened and I was receiving divine communication. "Through me flows the Word of God" was another phrase that kept getting repeated. I was convinced this was The Second Coming of Christ. Bart ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 16:08:13 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 17 Message-ID: <9rcg8d$koq$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd91023.2271156@news.ntlworld.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.75.cd X-Server-Date: 26 Oct 2001 20:15:09 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72979 lorz wrote in message ... > > >> >> -- >> >> The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter >> is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan >> > >Who was Henry Porter? We don't really know for sure - except that his name wasn't Henry Porter... ###### Reply-To: "Douglas D. Anderson" From: "Douglas D. Anderson" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 27 Organization: Ancient Order of Free and Accelerated Mesons X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:17:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.24.89.169 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rochester.rr.com X-Trace: typhoon.nyroc.rr.com 1004127445 66.24.89.169 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 16:17:25 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 16:17:25 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone.nyroc.rr.com!cyclone-out.nyroc.rr.com!typhoon.nyroc.rr.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73006 "Raistlin Majere" wrote in message news:3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com... > what is Kundalini? Can anyone explain how to accomplish this? > This is not really related to lucid dreaming, but... 'Kundalini' is the primordial creative energy. In the Western world, this was discovered by Freud and called "Id", called by Fritz Perles "Primal Energy". You need a qualified teacher to help you with this, releasing Kundalini without preparation can result in insanity, mental problems, nervous breakdown, etc. In America, the school established by Yogi Bhajan, his trained and initiated teachers can help you with this, and in general your out-of-pocket expenses should be extremely reasonable... they aren't money freaks like TM. In any case, it can take a couple of years of physical and mental training, as well as dietary discipline (strictly vegetarian, diet consists mainly of extremely hot curried rice, nuts and yogurt) in order to capably channel and utilize kundalini. It is difficult to maintain the level of dedication and devotion required to be successful at this and to survive in western culture... unless you want to move to India and live along the Ganges as a beggar, you might be better off following a discipline more consistent with the western world, such as shabda yoga, which has been successfully integrated into western culture, or Zen, Bhakti, Hatha, etc... Cheers, Doug Anderson ###### Message-ID: <3BD9C9B6.CA1CA9FA@cogeco.ca> From: Tien Yen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-AtHome0405 (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 41 Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:38:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.226.115.153 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.busy1.on.home.com 1004128736 24.226.115.153 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:38:56 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:38:56 PDT Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanjose!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.busy1.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72958 Hi all Bart wrote: > > Janice wrote in message ... > >In article , dorthd@televar.com > >says... > >> "Janice" wrote in message > > > >> > Mine occurred in mid January 1992. > >> > >> Mine was also in January, but way back in '71. > > > >Must be something not quite right about January ... :-) > > '80 Hey, sign me up! January '96, at the tender age of 43. I've been catching up on this thread & just realized that Jan '96 was the beginning of my wall-to-wall mental upheaval. > > >> > > Did you think the radio was delivering special messages to you, like > I > >> did? > >> > > >> > No, I missed out on that one (and, thankfully, the spontaneous yogic > >> > postures, LOL). > >> > >> You're kidding! I did that! Is that funny, or what!? > > > >You did the spontaneous yogic postures in addition to hearing radio > >messages? I read about the yoga thing just the other day, and was glad I > >hadn't had that particular bizarre symptom > > I have never heard of that one being common, but I definately had something > like it. My hand kept going up like I was about to bless someone.... :-\ Always did weird postures because of the martial arts training :) Never heard voices, thankfully. [...] ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bd9df0f.866591@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd90d14.1487721@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 20 Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 22:29:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.96.165 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004135379 62.255.96.165 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:29:39 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:29:39 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72969 On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:20:47 GMT, "dorothy" wrote: >I did actually write to Kurt V. at the time but never heard back from him. >Anyway, this was about 30 years ago, Julia. Why would someone who doesn't >know me "have a message" for me? I "got" plenty from his books, I think. Fair enough! How rude of him not to write back. Wasn't it the son's book which you related to, though? >Anyway, I certainly don't think that life is so structured that I'll "lose >my path" if I don't follow up on every chance circumstance that occurs to >me. I'd have pursued relationships with plenty of rock stars if that were >the case. ;-) Coo! There is something mouthwateringly tempting about that particular level of insanity... I was once handed a Concorde ticket to New York with my name on it, but I handed it back. Now, if their next gig had been in San Francisco... Love from Julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bd9e029.1148881@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 40 Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 22:29:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.96.165 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004135380 62.255.96.165 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:29:40 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:29:40 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72965 On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:07:02 GMT, Janice wrote: >The pituitary. Yup, that one. >This sounds rather more dramatic than garden-variety bruxism, which might >be all that Leo meant ... Leo? How long is your tongue? It is, however, the explanation for why you see film and photos of wildhaired naked gurus in India sticking their tongues out to touch the tip of their chins. It is a display of power and status ever bit as showy as a silk suit and Rolex watch. A lot of imagery of the fiercer variety of gods and goddesses includes prominent tongues. Coincidentally my shaman has no connecting tissue beneath his tongue, although he blames it on a car accident when he was 4. He has no excuse for the webbed toes, though.... >> A flow of 'nectar' is released which provides inner psychic >> sustenance. People can stop eating at this point, often for months or >> years in rarefied conditions (ie sitting silently meditating >> permanently and being looked after - it is not the latest fad diet!). >> This happens spontaneously in meditation, in class during Tibetan >> Pulsing, or to Californian Instant Karmacists who use knives to slash >> the tongue and upper palate. > >Eew, gross. :) Isn't it? I've seen photos of people who have slit their tongues lengthwise with scissors, for dramatic effect but possibly not for spiritual purposes. And these tricks are every bit as daft as trepanning the skull over the third eye, another popular New Age self-mutilation in certain circles. Honestly, the lengths people push themselves to... What was that Groucho Marx said about never joining a club which would have him as a member? (Nice club in Soho called after him, though...Good oil paintings.) Love from Julia. Julia ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <3BD9C9B6.CA1CA9FA@cogeco.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-mnUZlPbbx8gcPSiQvL5lObqwCxoNmis+FQVrwsEUCco5LAjlix0 Lines: 38 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:34:00 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-88jMgHnoYZPidZpSPq52FLbQ7H90sJrZ3Fzo9rEYDfXfERz78ovAdxvfu8QxM0IMSDhowEhcIbe6B3I!KXmjA++nSAH/vKfPO9UTDhzNXwL8AHGe6ZLva1V+Covx+j6meISuC6bgUc+o8di/yS/fHohI3cjR!88q0Mb47rsm7nQUjtlPUGQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 22:34:00 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72999 In article <3BD9C9B6.CA1CA9FA@cogeco.ca>, TienYen@cogeco.ca says... > Hi all > > Bart wrote: > > > > Janice wrote in message ... > > >In article , dorthd@televar.com > > >says... > > >> "Janice" wrote in message > > > > > >> > Mine occurred in mid January 1992. > > >> > > >> Mine was also in January, but way back in '71. > > > > > >Must be something not quite right about January ... :-) > > > > '80 > > Hey, sign me up! January '96, at the tender age of 43. I've been > catching up on this thread & just realized that Jan '96 was the > beginning of my wall-to-wall mental upheaval. What's your perspective on it now? Do you think it benefitted you in any way? -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-DA52lkBnZNwtPotlYqQLDE9Gufzb91Ce9Qm31EUFa8uafOc996T Lines: 56 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:55:41 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-ruahwHlYtUOHu71Wkzn41JlZQsHwyduLfFoZA/rp8ksEzWPmFu3fGkQn+LDQXKApHI5072R2qa4QO31!O0eRLSOpiJXYupD7FjWnF2QXQIkR9BBZOYXJFRdlDKnDHKMgne4rcew67giWxbNgf25BkS/ztsev!qycD8nWPe/suqS0Ns5Sx5w== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 22:55:41 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72988 In article <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com says... > > Janice wrote in message ... > >"Saint Bart." Has a nice ring to it. :) > > How about "Lord Bartholomew"? ;-) I like it. How about joining our alt.oob court? > Yes, I do have mixed feelings about it. Your comment about "Divine Madness" > was fairly accurate. The experience was intense, but the only REAL > uncomfortable thing about it was that I could not maintain the high level of > awareness and my actions eventually lost all substance to became an > embarrassing memory. So briefly you felt in touch with a higher reality but it was as though your human mind couldn't keep operating at that level, so everything degraded to mere pantomime. > >You heard these phrases? Sounds like the voice was cribbing from the New > >Testament a bit. > > You are correct, of course. The thing is, at the time, I knew exactly what > these words meant. Instead of seeing them as the words of an individual > named "Jesus" - they became the words of "Consciousness" Itself. I > identified with consciousness as a whole - not as an individual. It was > like doors in my being were opened and I was receiving divine communication. > > "Through me flows the Word of God" was another phrase that kept getting > repeated. I was convinced this was The Second Coming of Christ. I remember reading the New Testament one time and seeing how some of the lines attributed to Jesus could have an esoteric interpretation like that--the Kingdom of Heaven as an enlightened state of awareness etc. Unfortunately the religious elements of my own experience were awful. I was in such torment that I thought maybe I was being punished for such dreadful sins as enjoying reading fantasy novels and mythology, and of course for "dabbling in the occult" in the form of LDs and OBEs. I had a lot of nightmares about witches and evil clerics. :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3BD870A1.9090106@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 86 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:16:20 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.22 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004145253 216.241.33.22 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:14:13 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:14:13 MDT Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!209.98.98.64!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72996 Raistlin Majere wrote in message news:3BD870A1.9090106@yahoo.com... > ok so the next question that i have is what is the process for > performing this? Is there something i can read that takes me step by > step through the process? I would like to read something about the > process of performing it BEFORE I make a descision to try it. After reading that little exchange between Bart and Janice, I would think you would have to be a masochist to ask this question. ;-) Ken > > dorothy wrote: > > > "Janice" wrote in message > > news:MPG.1641c41cf62e0495989d1a@news.starlinx.com... > > > >>In article <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket>, delete@nightc.usa.net > >>says... > >> > >>>On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 03:45:25 GMT, Janice wrote: > >>> > >>>>Glad you brought that up, though. Speculations about limbic system > >>>>activity are the closest thing I've seen to hint at a > >>>> > > neurophysiological > > > >>>>explanation for this stuff. The amygdala (one of the limbic system > >>>>structures) supposedly mediates fear, and I sure felt like a panic > >>>> > > button > > > >>>>had been pressed and stuck in the "on" position in my brain. Now if > >>>> > > only > > > >>>>there were a good reason for that to have happened ... :) > >>>> > >>>I think the neurological phenomenon known as 'kindling' is a plausable > >>>explaination. The term is usually used in reference to epilepsy but it > >>> > > doesn't > > > >>>necessarily have to result in seizure. And the limbic structures seem to > >>> > > be > > > >>>the most prone to kindling. > >>> > >>Yes, I was reading a bit about kindling in this connection last night. > >>What would set it off, though? Maybe a major serotonin deficit > >>disinhibiting the limbic structures? I know that right before it > >>happened to me I had spent several days with very little sleep or food (I > >>was writing a soul-searching essay a little too intensely :), which may > >>have knocked me out of whack chemically. > >> > > > > I had a similar experience many years ago; a psychotic episode seemingly > > brought on by several factors including lack of food and sleep. Like you, I > > also had the sensation at one point of a huge amount of energy trying to > > escape through my head - as if it were on the verge of exploding. > > > > There was a book published in the 70's called 'The Eden Express' (written by > > Mark Vonnegut, the son of the novelist), describing his own very interesting > > bout with psychosis. It has the best description and explanation that I've > > read. I've also heard that some epileptic seizures can be described in > > semi-positive terms as 'enlightening' experiences. If these things have > > anything to do with Kundalini, I can see why you'd want to be careful with > > it. Enlightening experiences I don't mind, but I can do without the fried > > brain part. > > > > > > > ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 27 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:19:15 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.22 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004145428 216.241.33.22 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:17:08 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:17:08 MDT Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73005 Janice wrote in message > Amen to that. My whole nervous system was toast. Even two months later > a slight stimulation such as seeing people kiss on TV would make me burn > all over. Ouch!! I hope no one tried to kiss *you* or they might have witnessed another case of spontaneous combustion in humans! Ken > > -- > > The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter > is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan > > My homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html > > The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html > > The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 20 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:24:29 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.22 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004145741 216.241.33.22 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:22:21 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:22:21 MDT Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72994 Janice wrote in message news:MPG.1642a12156b3d361989d2c@news.starlinx.com... > In article , dorthd@televar.com > says... > > "Janice" wrote in message > > > > Mine occurred in mid January 1992. > > > > Mine was also in January, but way back in '71. > > Must be something not quite right about January ... :-) Well then, that explains me. I was born in January. Ken ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd91023.2271156@news.ntlworld.com> <9rcg8d$koq$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 26 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:35:27 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.22 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004146400 216.241.33.22 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:33:20 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:33:20 MDT Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!cyclone.bc.net!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!newsfeed.frii.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72992 Bart wrote in message news:9rcg8d$koq$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net... > > lorz wrote in message ... > > > > > >> > >> -- > >> > >> The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter > >> is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan > >> > > > >Who was Henry Porter? > > > We don't really know for sure - except that his name wasn't Henry Porter... > That's right. It was Harry Potter, but the only think we know for sure about Harry Potter is that his name is Harry Potter and not Henry Porter, so we still don't know who Henry Porter is. > ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bd9e029.1148881@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-puP5v0Ma3/M0O66AXrcC07GaBrB7kek7BuuoW2d+i2vGJqvY0RU Lines: 41 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:40:29 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-4z7sgVYA77A02jgGqAPZFYwakwiXNR+uEB2/+gldeXUJ2La2HFgHGhiNqrc0s0boVzbfxpWz9R+ZGYN!kQwEKPEqrv9Z/kpFJnefTMN3+NWt7WNw0HANNngXwnkVvAmO8O2FENLsHbP1bZPoK5JHPjNpbKEy!lSnqY7iFSJ+8SYnhYL4Y4Q== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 01:40:29 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72995 In article <3bd9e029.1148881@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > It is, however, the explanation for why you see film and photos of > wildhaired naked gurus in India sticking their tongues out to touch > the tip of their chins. It is a display of power and status ever bit > as showy as a silk suit and Rolex watch. A lot of imagery of the > fiercer variety of gods and goddesses includes prominent tongues. Yep, like Kali. > Coincidentally my shaman has no connecting tissue beneath his tongue, > although he blames it on a car accident when he was 4. He has no > excuse for the webbed toes, though.... In Ireland they would say that he was descended from the people of the sea. :) > >Eew, gross. :) > > Isn't it? I've seen photos of people who have slit their tongues > lengthwise with scissors, for dramatic effect but possibly not for > spiritual purposes. And these tricks are every bit as daft as > trepanning the skull over the third eye, another popular New Age > self-mutilation in certain circles. I was soooo repulsed the first time I heard of that ... -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-GH0zJ6Z5amKW+yZSkZzEcEVu3g8/9VIXNKN0XNP/89ypCvHNyVE Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:47:51 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-Lgbyuz8Vl6+n0gVzfgrhYg9VRi3rVJrFhdSAM3R96PGZBNRNt8dVeK4xOjvPNmkPJo14s5O6SCJG0PS!YKux0v4Ue88DMJ7+ZIH9dRN8LUv3fpMKa2/b/kv1K8iMWH3tnKmkkG+aKtKY35mLvfsX/ISU7VFm!3HK2x4ZRkcO7FFkUAHv2pg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 01:47:51 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72989 In article , sculpt@privatei.com says... > > Janice wrote in message > > Amen to that. My whole > nervous system was toast. Even two months later > > a slight stimulation such as seeing people kiss on TV would make me burn > > all over. > > Ouch!! I hope no one tried to kiss *you* or they might have witnessed > another case of spontaneous combustion in humans! Nope, I wasn't seeing anyone at that time. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 80 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:58:39 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.22 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004147824 216.241.33.22 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:57:04 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:57:04 MDT Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!209.98.98.64!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73003 Bart wrote in message news:9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net... > > Janice wrote in message ... > >In article <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com > >says... > >> > >> Janice wrote in message ... > >> > >> >Must be something not quite right about January ... :-) > >> > >> '80 > > > >Are you saying you're another January kundalini baby? > > Sorry. I don't recall the month. > > > >> >You did the spontaneous yogic postures in addition to hearing radio > >> >messages? I read about the yoga thing just the other day, and was glad > I > >> >hadn't had that particular bizarre symptom > >> > >> I have never heard of that one being common, but I definately had > something > >> like it. My hand kept going up like I was about to bless someone.... :-\ > > > >"Saint Bart." Has a nice ring to it. :) > > How about "Lord Bartholomew"? ;-) > > >You seem to have mixed feelings about your experience now. On the one > >hand you say it inspired your current beliefs, but on the other hand you > >think you reacted peculiarly at the time; is that about right? > > Yes, I do have mixed feelings about it. Your comment about "Divine Madness" > was fairly accurate. The experience was intense, but the only REAL > uncomfortable thing about it was that I could not maintain the high level of > awareness and my actions eventually lost all substance to became an > embarrassing memory. > > >> "I am the Light." > >> > >> "I am the Truth - the beginning and the end of all reality." > >> > >> "I am Awareness. I live in all things and all things live in me." > >> > >> "No one goes to the Father except by me." > > > >You heard these phrases? Sounds like the voice was cribbing from the New > >Testament a bit. > > > You are correct, of course. The thing is, at the time, I knew exactly what > these words meant. Instead of seeing them as the words of an individual > named "Jesus" - they became the words of "Consciousness" Itself. I > identified with consciousness as a whole - not as an individual. It was > like doors in my being were opened and I was receiving divine communication. > > "Through me flows the Word of God" was another phrase that kept getting > repeated. I was convinced this was The Second Coming of Christ. Do you suspect that the popular author that wrote the books "Conversations with God" was having a similar experience, or drug related, or bogus? Ken > > Bart > > > ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 76 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:13:29 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.22 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004148682 216.241.33.22 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:11:22 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:11:22 MDT Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!209.98.98.64!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73000 Janice wrote in message news:MPG.1643b565cc42b65e989d40@news.starlinx.com... > In article <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com > says... > > > > Janice wrote in message ... > > > >"Saint Bart." Has a nice ring to it. :) > > > > How about "Lord Bartholomew"? ;-) > > I like it. How about joining our alt.oob court? > > > Yes, I do have mixed feelings about it. Your comment about "Divine Madness" > > was fairly accurate. The experience was intense, but the only REAL > > uncomfortable thing about it was that I could not maintain the high level of > > awareness and my actions eventually lost all substance to became an > > embarrassing memory. > > So briefly you felt in touch with a higher reality but it was as though > your human mind couldn't keep operating at that level, so everything > degraded to mere pantomime. > > > >You heard these phrases? Sounds like the voice was cribbing from the New > > >Testament a bit. > > > > You are correct, of course. The thing is, at the time, I knew exactly what > > these words meant. Instead of seeing them as the words of an individual > > named "Jesus" - they became the words of "Consciousness" Itself. I > > identified with consciousness as a whole - not as an individual. It was > > like doors in my being were opened and I was receiving divine communication. > > > > "Through me flows the Word of God" was another phrase that kept getting > > repeated. I was convinced this was The Second Coming of Christ. > > I remember reading the New Testament one time and seeing how some of the > lines attributed to Jesus could have an esoteric interpretation like > that--the Kingdom of Heaven as an enlightened state of awareness etc. > > Unfortunately the religious elements of my own experience were awful. I > was in such torment that I thought maybe I was being punished for such > dreadful sins as enjoying reading fantasy novels and mythology, and of > course for "dabbling in the occult" in the form of LDs and OBEs. I had a > lot of nightmares about witches and evil clerics. :) I had an experience almost identicle to Barts but lasting only a day. I can't help but wonder if Jesus himself had such an experience in a permanent form and if that was the case, and if that was his secret to sacred knowledge, then could this experience of mine be something similar or was Jesus just in a permanent state and I just in a temporary state of disillusionment. I imagine quite a few people wonder about just what was the nature of Jesus's knowledge (if indeed it was knowledge). Ken > > -- > > The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter > is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan > > My homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html > > The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html > > The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 61 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:30:11 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.22 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004149689 216.241.33.22 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:28:09 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:28:09 MDT Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72998 lorz wrote in message news:KKhC7.10768$RB4.324822@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com... > > "Janice" wrote in message > news:MPG.16436c61dfdcb42f989d35@news.starlinx.com... > > In article , > > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > > Ewww I don't even like reading this thread ! :( > > > > Can't blame you. This definitely falls into the "freaky shit" category, > > even when you just interpret it as a kind of nervous breakdown. But > > perhaps now your "It" seems tame in comparison? :) > > > > To keep on topic: I remember starting one OBE during a nap on the couch > > while I was depressed, just one of those humdrum things in sleep > > paralysis I'd done countless times before where it feels like duplicate > > limbs start to separate etc., and panicking, "Oh, God! They're right! > > It IS real!" :D > > Shades of "Rosemary's Baby". I think that particular scene was one of the most freightening things I'd ever seen and that was before I had had my first OBE (I think) which gives that scene a particular boost. Ken > > -- > > Well yeah. That is always how I feel when I have an OBE. At that moment and > during the experience I always am thinking "Oh God! This is real!". Right > afterwards I always feel it was definitely real. Later I start doubting it > as I think of all the things you have told me and the more scientific, > neurological explanations that it could be other than the metaphysical. I > feel very strongly at the time it is happening though that it is real > because I am thinking very clearly and it isnt like a dream where things > don't make sense. You know how in a typical dream or even in an LD things > just don't seem as real and have wierd happenings in them where when you > wake up you laugh at the sillyness of them? Well, in my truest feeling OBE's > there is *no* dream. There aren't other people roaming around and such. It's > just an awareness, a feeling of being here and being out there somewhere at > the same time. And for me a feeling of dread. The head swirling and > vibration thingie that occurs along with this doesn't feel anything like any > dream. I always am aware and alert. It never feels as if I wake up > afterwards. I just get pull out of it. > I wonder have you ever had it like that? When you and others sometimes > describe what you consider to be OBE's they seem to me to be highly aware > LD's. Now I know youconsider an OBE to be a highly aware LD but there is a > distinction for me. The two seem very different. > > > > > ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-4R230dIMQ6iSzZdCH8KEiMEFmfjv2M5l4EAcJnE2HTMqGCoGX/I Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:39:53 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-nc7KRAX5S8MJtKCTUOKoPCaXlkhGYVjvfkubAb71Yc9BXQiaJEIx4HPVdChZcpKZQA4jN9bvmbafWfn!1AMADZ2pnA1gLJJ6865pSwuplTjpikNyJglxn4/AwbYi6ENEs3OwGNJU+zcIqV3GCGlL29UN1VZB!q3yFXgDoPtbjlsswZXl1LQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 02:39:53 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!amsnews01.chello.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72993 In article , sculpt@privatei.com says... > I had an experience almost identicle to Barts but lasting only a day. I > can't help but wonder if Jesus himself had such an experience in a > permanent form and if that was the case, and if that was his secret to > sacred knowledge, then could this experience of mine be something similar or > was Jesus just in a permanent state and I just in a temporary state of > disillusionment. I imagine quite a few people wonder about just what was > the nature of Jesus's knowledge (if indeed it was knowledge). The Sufis, of course, say he was a Sufi. :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: fakeID@whatever.ca (skippydee) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bda2288.765853@news.lynx.net> References: <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bd9e029.1148881@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Lynx Communications Inc. Cache-Post-Path: news1.lynx.bc.ca!unknown@vanip-128-037.eseenet.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 21 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 03:03:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.82.88.221 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:03:47 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news1.tor.metronet.ca!news1.cal.metronet.ca!news1.van.metronet.ca!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72961 On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 22:29:11 GMT, julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote: >On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:07:02 GMT, Janice wrote: >>The pituitary. > >Yup, that one. > >>This sounds rather more dramatic than garden-variety bruxism, which might >>be all that Leo meant ... > >Leo? How long is your tongue? [blush] I can't touch the bottom of my nose, let alone the tip of it. I'm not entirely sure what caused the bout of jaw-grinding, but it was preceded by some interesting shamanic-like dreams and obe's. I think at least part of the anxiety was from trying to figure out what the dreams/obe's were about. -leo [...] ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 89 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:04:24 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.28 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004151778 216.241.33.28 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:02:58 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:02:58 MDT Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsmi-eu.news.garr.it!NewsITBone-GARR!fu-berlin.de!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73004 lorz wrote in message news:KKhC7.10768$RB4.324822@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com... > > "Janice" wrote in message > news:MPG.16436c61dfdcb42f989d35@news.starlinx.com... > > In article , > > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > > Ewww I don't even like reading this thread ! :( > > > > Can't blame you. This definitely falls into the "freaky shit" category, > > even when you just interpret it as a kind of nervous breakdown. But > > perhaps now your "It" seems tame in comparison? :) > > > > To keep on topic: I remember starting one OBE during a nap on the couch > > while I was depressed, just one of those humdrum things in sleep > > paralysis I'd done countless times before where it feels like duplicate > > limbs start to separate etc., and panicking, "Oh, God! They're right! > > It IS real!" :D > > > > -- > > Well yeah. That is always how I feel when I have an OBE. At that moment and > during the experience I always am thinking "Oh God! This is real!". Right > afterwards I always feel it was definitely real. Later I start doubting it > as I think of all the things you have told me and the more scientific, > neurological explanations that it could be other than the metaphysical. I > feel very strongly at the time it is happening though that it is real > because I am thinking very clearly and it isnt like a dream where things > don't make sense. You know how in a typical dream or even in an LD things > just don't seem as real and have wierd happenings in them where when you > wake up you laugh at the sillyness of them? Well, in my truest feeling OBE's > there is *no* dream. There aren't other people roaming around and such. It's > just an awareness, a feeling of being here and being out there somewhere at > the same time. And for me a feeling of dread. The head swirling and > vibration thingie that occurs along with this doesn't feel anything like any > dream. I always am aware and alert. It never feels as if I wake up > afterwards. I just get pull out of it. > I wonder have you ever had it like that? When you and others sometimes > describe what you consider to be OBE's they seem to me to be highly aware > LD's. Now I know youconsider an OBE to be a highly aware LD but there is a > distinction for me. The two seem very different. You know, since hanging out here, especially with Janice's convincing and erudite (hope I'm using that word correctly here) perspective, I have slipped into a place where it's not so much that I have changed my idea of what an OBE is (that is to say a trip on the astral plain) as I have changed my perspective about what dreams and waking reality are. I know that OBEs are certainly a dream like place, but so is waking reality, and I have also learned that the real meaning of reality, thought, has a meaning that is very singular and encompasses the meanings behind this whole OBE/LD/D/WR gammet. To be more specific, we have come to relate all experiences that are not waking reality experiences to waking reality experiences. But where I'm coming from these days, it's just as valid to compare, say, an OBE experience to all non-OBE experiences, or all LD experiences to non-LD experiences with the same weight. In other words, it's not that waking reality is real and OBEs are not, so much as it is that *any* of the 4 experiences are real when you are experiencing them and the other 3 are not when you are not experiencing them. So yes, OBEs are true real honest to goodness waking reality experiences and waking reality, LDs, and dreams are not, so long as you are having an OBE. Waking reality cannot have any real basis in reality if taken outside of the above context. This keyboard I type on are swarms of elusive quarks, with vast, really vast spaces of nothingness in between and things called charges, which also have no real meaning except mathematically, holding everything together, as if they really have the power to do so. The only thing that is truly truly real, is thought. That is the one thing we absolutely know exists above all else. Everything else is just something nature uses to support thought. Atoms, OBEs, whatever. My my. Aren't I on a philosophical note tonite. Ken > > > > > ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 37 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:07:06 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.28 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004151903 216.241.33.28 (Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:05:03 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:05:03 MDT Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73008 Janice wrote in message news:MPG.1643e9f9d6b9c02d989d45@news.starlinx.com... > In article , > sculpt@privatei.com says... > > > I had an experience almost identicle to Barts but lasting only a day. I > > can't help but wonder if Jesus himself had such an experience in a > > permanent form and if that was the case, and if that was his secret to > > sacred knowledge, then could this experience of mine be something similar or > > was Jesus just in a permanent state and I just in a temporary state of > > disillusionment. I imagine quite a few people wonder about just what was > > the nature of Jesus's knowledge (if indeed it was knowledge). > > The Sufis, of course, say he was a Sufi. :) Any good links to a description of a Sufi? Ken > > -- > > The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter > is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan > > My homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html > > The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html > > The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:42:07 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 68 Message-ID: <9rdarm$3cj$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.77.a4 X-Server-Date: 27 Oct 2001 03:49:10 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72982 Janice wrote in message ... >In article <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com >says... >> >> Janice wrote in message ... > >> >"Saint Bart." Has a nice ring to it. :) >> >> How about "Lord Bartholomew"? ;-) > >I like it. How about joining our alt.oob court? I've been out of touch with the group for a while. Court? What court? >> Yes, I do have mixed feelings about it. Your comment about "Divine Madness" >> was fairly accurate. The experience was intense, but the only REAL >> uncomfortable thing about it was that I could not maintain the high level of >> awareness and my actions eventually lost all substance to became an >> embarrassing memory. > >So briefly you felt in touch with a higher reality but it was as though >your human mind couldn't keep operating at that level, so everything >degraded to mere pantomime. Eventually. >> >You heard these phrases? Sounds like the voice was cribbing from the New >> >Testament a bit. >> >> You are correct, of course. The thing is, at the time, I knew exactly what >> these words meant. Instead of seeing them as the words of an individual >> named "Jesus" - they became the words of "Consciousness" Itself. I >> identified with consciousness as a whole - not as an individual. It was >> like doors in my being were opened and I was receiving divine communication. >> >> "Through me flows the Word of God" was another phrase that kept getting >> repeated. I was convinced this was The Second Coming of Christ. > >I remember reading the New Testament one time and seeing how some of the >lines attributed to Jesus could have an esoteric interpretation like >that--the Kingdom of Heaven as an enlightened state of awareness etc. That is my point of view, yes. >Unfortunately the religious elements of my own experience were awful. I >was in such torment that I thought maybe I was being punished for such >dreadful sins as enjoying reading fantasy novels and mythology, and of >course for "dabbling in the occult" in the form of LDs and OBEs. I had a >lot of nightmares about witches and evil clerics. :) My situation was not like that at all. I had no nightmares - but I had very profound dreams about the people of the New Testament. There were times that I could see "evil" entities at a distance, but they couldn't get near me. They just stood around - waiting for me to return to "normal". I returned to "normal" and they came back... Bart ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:45:36 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 26 Message-ID: <9rdb2a$r53$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.77.a4 X-Server-Date: 27 Oct 2001 03:52:42 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72972 The Original Ken wrote in message ... > >Janice wrote in message >news:MPG.1642a12156b3d361989d2c@news.starlinx.com... >> In article , dorthd@televar.com >> says... >> > "Janice" wrote in message >> >> > > Mine occurred in mid January 1992. >> > >> > Mine was also in January, but way back in '71. >> >> Must be something not quite right about January ... :-) > >Well then, that explains me. I was born in January. > >Ken How's your mother? Bart ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 23:58:42 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 19 Message-ID: <9rdbqn$ng4$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.77.a4 X-Server-Date: 27 Oct 2001 04:05:43 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!64.245.249.19.MISMATCH!dfw3-feed1.news.digex.net!jfk3-feed1.news.digex.net!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72983 The Original Ken wrote in message ... > >Bart wrote in message >> "Through me flows the Word of God" was another phrase that kept getting >> repeated. I was convinced this was The Second Coming of Christ. > >Do you suspect that the popular author that wrote the books "Conversations >with God" was having a similar experience, or drug related, or bogus? Never read the books. It wouldn't surprise me that the author had a similar experience. Bart ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-4R230dIMQ6iSzZdCH8KEiMEFmfjv2M5l4EAcJnE2HTMqGCoGX/I Lines: 42 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 00:45:52 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-vBaDjC3EfRQHXnL7Tghur/WJWLDL3YY0+py0J3+4T/u+dU/Xi8kYZPFF9sI9J3FLtE3lKXHHuWMahD/!zzoBKLWVUBWmdtdoxQMg+7sHjwoebuOn/q/cgOaNeeI397i2rjbH2UAJ96BinS8zsPjLfHgv0tWQ!lGLuydPYrSJSSzLgCNjelA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 05:45:52 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsfeed.skycache.com.MISMATCH!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72986 In article , sculpt@privatei.com says... > > lorz wrote in message > news:KKhC7.10768$RB4.324822@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com... > > > > "Janice" wrote in message > > news:MPG.16436c61dfdcb42f989d35@news.starlinx.com... > > > In article , > > > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > > > > Ewww I don't even like reading this thread ! :( > > > > > > Can't blame you. This definitely falls into the "freaky shit" category, > > > even when you just interpret it as a kind of nervous breakdown. But > > > perhaps now your "It" seems tame in comparison? :) > > > > > > To keep on topic: I remember starting one OBE during a nap on the couch > > > while I was depressed, just one of those humdrum things in sleep > > > paralysis I'd done countless times before where it feels like duplicate > > > limbs start to separate etc., and panicking, "Oh, God! They're right! > > > It IS real!" :D > > > > Shades of "Rosemary's Baby". I think that particular scene was one of the > most freightening things I'd ever seen and that was before I had had my > first OBE (I think) which gives that scene a particular boost. LOL, yes, that scene made a big impression on me as a kid. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-NCTH9ShD6oHijWdz9Pt1bY1M0jwmIyccs2eBq1MZhLQs3cHQWQa Lines: 43 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 00:56:44 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-K7W12iUgrtipldPSO7Ygzdvbl0nZ9PIyW+h2s6edDguua1BTQzHBCpNrT3teA5nb+Bk48FETjrNHn83!DaH3+X/4R72IzTX/EpgX9HrLDDvvB7DQ9G8e483ShrEQEITrLMxHfZ5dV0p4KyC+NQRuoUdr03QM!87jNDtZ1SILi8gdr9TxOXQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 05:56:44 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!opentransit.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.voicenet.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72991 In article , sculpt@privatei.com says... > > Janice wrote in message > news:MPG.1643e9f9d6b9c02d989d45@news.starlinx.com... > > In article , > > sculpt@privatei.com says... > > > > > I had an experience almost identicle to Barts but lasting only a day. I > > > can't help but wonder if Jesus himself had such an experience in a > > > permanent form and if that was the case, and if that was his secret to > > > sacred knowledge, then could this experience of mine be something > similar or > > > was Jesus just in a permanent state and I just in a temporary state of > > > disillusionment. I imagine quite a few people wonder about just what > was > > > the nature of Jesus's knowledge (if indeed it was knowledge). > > > > The Sufis, of course, say he was a Sufi. :) > > Any good links to a description of a Sufi? There are a number of varieties of Sufism. The Westernized type I'm most familiar with you can read a little about here: http://www.sufis.org/ (A bit of trivia: it's my understanding that the "SLB" you see at the bottom of those webpages stands for none other than Stephen LaBerge.) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bd9e029.1148881@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda2288.765853@news.lynx.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-Ov836PHmHl9KkaW94IP+4dIygBFDOxpqNSYjD2eDIuGksqfyWzs Lines: 36 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 00:58:25 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-MCG3p2UfMhM2MRYn1CM/9lO2vSoPwLX3NftV8pOYyiCk63Bgg9kf/u3d2hq+H2BWyyv5ulFRDI53lHk!4hjM6KoCH5dqKVXbompRUGSZuL7ThFL/EaWAwBMtziYKpnM+cTzWw5n9iOwHdkaGbbcNzldCzlqX!Lwd7uu3nimOWQhEyQt5Qcg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 05:58:25 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.germany.net!newsfeed.icl.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet!news-xfer.siscom.net!216.166.61.6.MISMATCH!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72987 In article <3bda2288.765853@news.lynx.net>, fakeID@whatever.ca says... > On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 22:29:11 GMT, julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com > (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote: > > >On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:07:02 GMT, Janice wrote: > >>The pituitary. > > > >Yup, that one. > > > >>This sounds rather more dramatic than garden-variety bruxism, which might > >>be all that Leo meant ... > > > >Leo? How long is your tongue? > > [blush] I can't touch the bottom of my nose, let alone the tip of it. > I'm not entirely sure what caused the bout of jaw-grinding, but it > was preceded by some interesting shamanic-like dreams and obe's. I > think at least part of the anxiety was from trying to figure out what > the dreams/obe's were about. I got into a vicious cycle that way: obsessing over nightmares made me anxious, which led to more nightmares. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <9rdarm$3cj$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-nU9u/VUq5gu+MpXiz3lCgP0SrCM8hk94siCg/+3C4vFr2bfiEiz Lines: 45 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 01:20:36 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-EYgFXCR+HAXxXozfN+cBEWRTU26ZDfhGVjQmtOV/xqCdDsZq/3MIXlPoFWPLhmS7MmvyarcYuCgdIXH!bG9w6tRD8fWJdRzVofzt5bywwSqBY/9/Bz2eqe6zAb+t4ity9kw/Der8lDay8WSknS2mRXdrX44L!6k1BKZP/A4vHE5iFkr002A== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 06:20:36 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!204.71.34.15!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73007 In article <9rdarm$3cj$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12 @ix.netcom.com says... > I've been out of touch with the group for a while. Court? What court? Some of us have a long-standing role-playing game of a kind going in which the group is a medieval court. Here's a webpage about it: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/kingdom.html Of course it's a bit silly and not to everyone's taste so it's OK if you don't want an official title. :) > >Unfortunately the religious elements of my own experience were awful. I > >was in such torment that I thought maybe I was being punished for such > >dreadful sins as enjoying reading fantasy novels and mythology, and of > >course for "dabbling in the occult" in the form of LDs and OBEs. I had a > >lot of nightmares about witches and evil clerics. :) > > My situation was not like that at all. Yeah, you got the ecstatic effects rather than the dark, awful ones. :) > I had no nightmares - but I had very > profound dreams about the people of the New Testament. There were times > that I could see "evil" entities at a distance, but they couldn't get near > me. They just stood around - waiting for me to return to "normal". > > I returned to "normal" and they came back... Were you seeing entities while awake, or in your dreams? -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 02:40:19 -0400 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 77 Message-ID: <9rdlam$r9m$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.75.6f X-Server-Date: 27 Oct 2001 06:47:50 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72984 The Original Ken wrote in message ... >I had an experience almost identicle to Barts but lasting only a day. I >can't help but wonder if Jesus himself had such an experience in a >permanent form and if that was the case, and if that was his secret to >sacred knowledge, then could this experience of mine be something similar or >was Jesus just in a permanent state and I just in a temporary state of >disillusionment. I imagine quite a few people wonder about just what was >the nature of Jesus's knowledge (if indeed it was knowledge). > >Ken Ken - you know there are various "states of consciousness". This situation is not "knowledge" - it is a "state". Jesus' last name was not "Christ" ;-) "Christ" is a term for a state of consciousness. (You know all this, of course - I'm just playing. But my writing is also for the benefit of others.) However, I do believe that Jesus developed this "state". There are writings, separate from the Bible, that suggest he received training from those involved with esoteric teachings. As mentioned in another post, the Sufis make claim to his development. I cannot confirm this, but I cannot deny that his expressions fall in line with the Sufi writings. I don't believe you were in a "temporary state of disillusionment". As embarrassed as I became, I've never actually felt I was incorrect with my statements and actions. I simply could no longer support them - mentally. Because the mental doors had closed. Awareness is still what it is - but the walls of mentality block the flow. In my opinion, your situation was a "temporary state of enlightenment". It happens... As you suggest, I believe Jesus had reached a point where he was operating from a "permanent state of enlightenment"- the type of which extends beyond the barriers of mentality. In many esoteric teachings there are various levels of consciousness. I'm sure you are somewhat familiar with them. They start at the bottom with the "physical", then the "astral", then the "mental", then into the spiritual planes. Each of these states of consciousness result in a different perspective of the ones below... For example, while in the "astral" the "physical" becomes a dream. The "astral" is the origin of emotion. Over and over I have tried to explain that the Out-of-body experience ***IS*** a dream - but ****not**** to say that it cannot access the physical if you are operating from another level beyond the astral. After all, the "astral" is emotion. Emotion doesn't give you a clear view of anything. It is all encoded with personal symbols. This is why I always stressed "Spirituality" in most of my posts over the years. One cannot expect quality results from OOB if one is not spiritually based. One can have many interesting experiences, but these experiences will rarely touch on a solid foundation if you are not already situated in a level beyond mentality. A number of people have criticized me for my constant mention of "Spirit". It is the fact that so many folks refuse to include "Spirit" in their travels. I'm not quite sure why so many people aren't interested in the spiritual side of OOB - since it is a spiritual situation... It always seems to be a simple human function for them. It *is* a simple human function for dreams. But it is also access to the spiritual and it should be respected as such - else it is worth nothing more than a dream. Awareness is reality but awareness is kept alive by the the flow of Spirit. You know about the "flow", Ken. I've read your stuff about the "astral breeze". You know this breeze is only present when you permit yourself to be free of desire. The comfort you receive is a part of your training. It doesn't belong to the Sufis - it belongs to your source - just as Jesus only knew the source. Bart ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bda6426.1757405@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd91023.2271156@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 11 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 07:55:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.85.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004169371 62.253.85.94 (Sat, 27 Oct 2001 08:56:11 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 08:56:11 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed.online.be!newsfeed.esat.net!diablo.theplanet.net!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72964 On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:01:41 GMT, Janice wrote: >> >> > I heard some loud and clear New Age profundities, such as: >> These may seem profund but Shamanically they are profound. These all >> have a genuine Shamanic significance, and a loud and clear message. Incidentally, Shamanism has been practised globally for a good million years, with Shamans 'dying' to save the souls of their flock. So when exactly did the New Age start? Love from Julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bda649e.1876661@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 19 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 07:55:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.85.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004169372 62.253.85.94 (Sat, 27 Oct 2001 08:56:12 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 08:56:12 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!opentransit.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72968 On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 02:39:53 GMT, Janice wrote: >In article , >sculpt@privatei.com says... > >> I had an experience almost identicle to Barts but lasting only a day. I >> can't help but wonder if Jesus himself had such an experience in a >> permanent form and if that was the case, and if that was his secret to >> sacred knowledge, then could this experience of mine be something similar or >> was Jesus just in a permanent state and I just in a temporary state of >> disillusionment. I imagine quite a few people wonder about just what was >> the nature of Jesus's knowledge (if indeed it was knowledge). > >The Sufis, of course, say he was a Sufi. :) ...and the Shamans say he was a jolly good Shaman, one of the best. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 37 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 07:55:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.85.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004169373 62.253.85.94 (Sat, 27 Oct 2001 08:56:13 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 08:56:13 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!195.238.2.15!skynet.be!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72963 On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:04:24 -0600, "The Original Ken" wrote: >To be more specific, we have come to relate all experiences that are not >waking reality experiences to waking reality experiences. But where I'm >coming from these days, it's just as valid to compare, say, an OBE >experience to all non-OBE experiences, or all LD experiences to non-LD >experiences with the same weight. In other words, it's not that waking >reality is real and OBEs are not, so much as it is that *any* of the 4 >experiences are real when you are experiencing them and the other 3 are not >when you are not experiencing them. So yes, OBEs are true real honest to >goodness waking reality experiences and waking reality, LDs, and dreams are >not, so long as you are having an OBE. Waking reality cannot have any real >basis in reality if taken outside of the above context. This keyboard I >type on are swarms of elusive quarks, with vast, really vast spaces of >nothingness in between and things called charges, which also have no real >meaning except mathematically, holding everything together, as if they Yes, I understand what you are saying here, Ken. Dreams, reality, the other levels, I slip between them all daily, until I wonder exactly how reality justifies itself other than as a concensus. >really have the power to do so. The only thing that is truly truly real, is >thought. That is the one thing we absolutely know exists above all else. >Everything else is just something nature uses to support thought. Atoms, >OBEs, whatever. Yes, thought is power and event. On the Astral, the power of thought shapes reality, and people meet teletubbies and cartoon rabbits. In the UnderWorld, thought as Intent is what gets the job done and the visitors back out of there. On the Upper World, thought is analysed for its integrity and virtue. The Middle World replicates reality but without the factor of Time. These many worlds are all jolly strange places. including the one we spend most of our waking time in! Love from julia Julia ###### From: none@nospam.com (ao) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bda9320.3926081@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 66 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:13:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.92.80.109 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1004184424 65.92.80.109 (Sat, 27 Oct 2001 08:07:04 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 08:07:04 EDT Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72970 On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:16:38 GMT, julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote: >The jaw grinding is an advanced kundalini process. The tongue >repeatedly and automatically stabs against the top palate, and >eventually wears a hole there. It also rubs against the lower teeth >until it loosens and cuts through the membrane attaching the tongue to >the l;ower palate. The freed tongue then pushes up into the skull, and >against the third eye gland (wossitcalled? The one that is stimulated >by eating teh fruit of the tree that Buddha sat under?) . >A flow of 'nectar' is released which provides inner psychic >sustenance. People can stop eating at this point, often for months or >years in rarefied conditions (ie sitting silently meditating >permanently and being looked after - it is not the latest fad diet!). >This happens spontaneously in meditation, in class during Tibetan >Pulsing, or to Californian Instant Karmacists who use knives to slash >the tongue and upper palate. Hi Julia, I think their are many gross distortions and misinterpretations existing today regarding traditional spiritual development practices such as kundalini and yoga, for example. Many older texts describing traditional spiritual practices of various spiritual sects were apparently written using elaborate symbolic terminology and sometimes included deliberate distortions in order to keep the prying eyes of the non-initiated from discovering the true meaning of the texts. As some have mentioned here, certain spiritual development practices can be harmful, or produce undesirable effects, if not practiced under the guidance of a properly trained teacher, and certain practices also should only be practiced when the practitioner is ready. Only the initiated were taught the true meaning of the symbology used in the texts. To the non-initiated, the writings would either appear nonsensical or the reader would completely miss the true meaning of the texts because they took the symbology literally. An example of this, I believe, is the symbology of transmuting lead into gold in alchemy. I believe the basis for this is actually a symbology used in ancient texts to describe a spritual development process in which grosser forms of subtle spiritual energy are refined into more purified forms of subtle spiritual energy. Also, some ancient texts in China contained the symbology of making an 'immortal pill'. There were actually groups of people who spent their lives trying to concoct an actual physical 'pill' to bring on immortality, and apparently some people actually poisoned themselves by ingesting various poisonous substances in their experiments. What you describe above regarding the tongue wearing a hole in the upper palate, etc., I believe are examples of these types of gross distortions. There are two main 'subtle energy' channels which pass up the back and down the front of the body, forming a kind of circular channel. The tip of the tongue should be pressed lightly against the upper palate to join these two channels and permit the subtle energy to circulate freely between the two channels. This moving of the tongue to the upper palate can occur spontaneously in meditation in order to facilitate this natural connection. No physical mutilation is required for the subtle energy to flow through these channels. I think a pretty safe guideline for filtering out some of the grosser distortions surrounding genuine spiritual development practices is that true spiritual development does not require any form of physical mutilation or other harm to the physical body. Those who dabble in practices they do not properly understand, however, may risk causing harm to themselves or they may have otherwise unpleasant experiences. Well, that's my view anyway. /ao May all your thoughts be good ones... ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 75 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:04:14 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.16 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004198558 216.241.33.16 (Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:02:38 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:02:38 MDT Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!cyclone.bc.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72997 Janice wrote in message news:MPG.164418185fa5d8fc989d47@news.starlinx.com... > In article , > sculpt@privatei.com says... > > > > Janice wrote in message > > news:MPG.1643e9f9d6b9c02d989d45@news.starlinx.com... > > > In article , > > > sculpt@privatei.com says... > > > > > > > I had an experience almost identicle to Barts but lasting only a day. I > > > > can't help but wonder if Jesus himself had such an experience in a > > > > permanent form and if that was the case, and if that was his secret to > > > > sacred knowledge, then could this experience of mine be something > > similar or > > > > was Jesus just in a permanent state and I just in a temporary state of > > > > disillusionment. I imagine quite a few people wonder about just what > > was > > > > the nature of Jesus's knowledge (if indeed it was knowledge). > > > > > > The Sufis, of course, say he was a Sufi. :) > > > > Any good links to a description of a Sufi? > > There are a number of varieties of Sufism. The Westernized type I'm most > familiar with you can read a little about here: > > http://www.sufis.org/ Thanks. It's an interesting idea, this Sufi stuff. Although cynical, I got this idea in my head that Sufism is a lot like a good lier. He says "Sorry I didn't meet with you yesterday but I ended up with my girlfriend" and you say "But I was with your girlfriend yesterday." and recognizing he was just caught in a lie says "Oh, I didn't tell you I have a new girlfriend now?". Changing the truth to suit the current circumstances. Like I said, that's a cynical view, and I actually do see the value in the Sufi idea and it seems to me that a lot of Western culture including myself practices Sufism unknowingly. My religious views change from moment to moment as I contemplate new information and redigest old. In our society in general the very word "spirituality" has taken on a meaning over the last few decades to mean an open, changing idea about God rather than a specific idea about him. Don't know how many times I've seen in personal ads "Religious, but not practicing. Spiritual." Seems that might be considered Sufism. So in that light Jesus being considered a Sufi would mean his words simply fit the time and would have to be taken metaphorically as time went on. Ken > > (A bit of trivia: it's my understanding that the "SLB" you see at the > bottom of those webpages stands for none other than Stephen LaBerge.) > > -- > > The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter > is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan > > My homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html > > The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html > > The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bdad694.967084@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda9320.3926081@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 81 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 16:05:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.88.61 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004198773 62.253.88.61 (Sat, 27 Oct 2001 17:06:13 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 17:06:13 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72966 On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:13:07 GMT, none@nospam.com (ao) wrote: >Hi Julia, I think their are many gross distortions and >misinterpretations existing today regarding traditional spiritual >development practices such as kundalini and yoga, for example. Many >older texts describing traditional spiritual practices of various >spiritual sects were apparently written using elaborate symbolic >terminology and sometimes included deliberate distortions in order to >keep the prying eyes of the non-initiated from discovering the true >meaning of the texts. As some have mentioned here, certain spiritual >development practices can be harmful, or produce undesirable effects, >if not practiced under the guidance of a properly trained teacher, and >certain practices also should only be practiced when the practitioner >is ready. Only the initiated were taught the true meaning of the >symbology used in the texts. To the non-initiated, the writings would >either appear nonsensical or the reader would completely miss the true >meaning of the texts because they took the symbology literally. >An example of this, I believe, is the symbology of transmuting lead >into gold in alchemy. I believe the basis for this is actually a >symbology used in ancient texts to describe a spritual development >process in which grosser forms of subtle spiritual energy are refined >into more purified forms of subtle spiritual energy. Also, some >ancient texts in China contained the symbology of making an 'immortal >pill'. There were actually groups of people who spent their lives >trying to concoct an actual physical 'pill' to bring on immortality, >and apparently some people actually poisoned themselves by ingesting >various poisonous substances in their experiments. All true. >What you describe above regarding the tongue wearing a hole in the >upper palate, etc., I believe are examples of these types of gross >distortions. There are two main 'subtle energy' channels which pass up >the back and down the front of the body, forming a kind of circular >channel. The tip of the tongue should be pressed lightly against the >upper palate to join these two channels and permit the subtle energy >to circulate freely between the two channels. This moving of the >tongue to the upper palate can occur spontaneously in meditation in >order to facilitate this natural connection. No physical mutilation is >required for the subtle energy to flow through these channels. All true, which is what makes the mutilation even grosser. However, this spontaneous sawing and piercing by the teeth and the tongue (not by knives) was described and illustrated to me by someone who had been meditating for 6-12 hours daily for over 20 years, and it had happened to him - painlessly. This information was 'seconded' by conversing with someone who had attended a series of Tibetan Pulsing courses. >I think a pretty safe guideline for filtering out some of the grosser >distortions surrounding genuine spiritual development practices is >that true spiritual development does not require any form of physical >mutilation or other harm to the physical body. Those who dabble in >practices they do not properly understand, however, may risk causing >harm to themselves or they may have otherwise unpleasant experiences. >Well, that's my view anyway. Certainly. There are always extremists, sadists and masochists, whether practising Catholicism, Shamanism, Spiritual Development or sexual bondage practices. Pain, suffering and enlightenment are inseperable once the boundaries between realities are explored and dissolved. Look at the chaps who are crucified for hours annually in the Philippines and Switzerland, or the men with their chest flesh torn to ribbons in the Native American Sun Dance. In voudou, people plunge their hands into boiling oil, and dance on coals. I met one man who had pushed a 20 foot tall wooden cross around the world, wearing deep gouges in his shoulders. As a teenager I held my hand in candle flames for as long as I could, because I wanted to overcome my natural relfex reactions and take control over my own body. Why? Because I was certain that there had to be more to existence than just these mortal coils. I do not suggest that these people do not understand what they do. However, I would certainly suggest that they never compel anyone else to do them. These actions certainly do all run counter to common sense. But they do make sense in ecstatic or trance states. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: none@nospam.com (ao) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bdaedeb.954020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda9320.3926081@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdad694.967084@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 70 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:08:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.92.88.231 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1004206095 65.92.88.231 (Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:08:15 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:08:15 EDT Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news1.tor.metronet.ca!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72973 On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 16:05:44 GMT, julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote: >All true, which is what makes the mutilation even grosser. However, >this spontaneous sawing and piercing by the teeth and the tongue >(not by knives) was described and illustrated to me by someone who had >been meditating for 6-12 hours daily for over 20 years, and it had >happened to him - painlessly. This information was 'seconded' by >conversing with someone who had attended a series of Tibetan Pulsing >courses. I have no doubt that their are certain involuntary movements that can occur during the circulation of subtle energies in meditation, as I have both witnessed this and experienced it. However, it is also possible that certain specific practices may bring on effects that are not necessarily in our best interests, it seems to me. Since I don't have any direct experience with what you referring to here, I can't really comment any further on it. >There are always extremists, sadists and masochists, whether >practising Catholicism, Shamanism, Spiritual Development or sexual >bondage practices. Pain, suffering and enlightenment are inseperable >once the boundaries between realities are explored and dissolved. Well, some might say that pain and suffering, as well as mental aberrations, are transcended when one approaches more enlightened states. :-) >Look at the chaps who are crucified for hours annually in the >Philippines and Switzerland, or the men with their chest flesh torn to >ribbons in the Native American Sun Dance. In voudou, people plunge >their hands into boiling oil, and dance on coals. I met one man who >had pushed a 20 foot tall wooden cross around the world, wearing deep >gouges in his shoulders. As a teenager I held my hand in candle flames >for as long as I could, because I wanted to overcome my natural relfex >reactions and take control over my own body. Why? Because I was >certain that there had to be more to existence than just these mortal >coils. I personally don't believe that such practices are necessary in terms of our overall development though. Some may assist us in achieving certain personal goals, or be symbolic to our psyches perhaps. Life brings us into direct contact with enough pain and challenges as it is, it seems to me though. That is just my personal view of course. I am not passing judgement on those who do such things. We each have to make our own way in this world. >I do not suggest that these people do not understand what they do. >However, I would certainly suggest that they never compel anyone else >to do them. These actions certainly do all run counter to common >sense. But they do make sense in ecstatic or trance states. I would disagree that people do not try to convince others to follow their beliefs and practices. This happens all the time, it seems to me. I will also suggest that just because something seems to make sense to us, whether in a normal or altered state of consciousness, it doesn't necessarily mean that such practices are in our overall best interests in terms of our development. BTW, has anyone else noticed how many people who have experienced OBE's and lucid dreams have also had experiences in which they have felt 'energy' circulating through their body, or experienced kundalini like experiences, or experienced what they felt were higher states of consciousness in the waking state, etc? I personally lean towards the idea that this is not just a coincidence. I think Patrica Garfield also leaned towards this view in her book "Pathway To Ecstacy", if I am not mixing that up with some other book. /ao May all your thoughts be good ones... ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 19:19:51 +0100 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-115-223.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 27 Oct 2001 19:16:09 +0100, host213-1-115-223.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 66 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-1-115-223.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72990 In article <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:04:24 -0600, "The Original Ken" > wrote: > >To be more specific, we have come to relate all experiences that are not > >waking reality experiences to waking reality experiences. But where I'm > >coming from these days, it's just as valid to compare, say, an OBE > >experience to all non-OBE experiences, or all LD experiences to non-LD > >experiences with the same weight. In other words, it's not that waking > >reality is real and OBEs are not, so much as it is that *any* of the 4 > >experiences are real when you are experiencing them and the other 3 are not > >when you are not experiencing them. So yes, OBEs are true real honest to > >goodness waking reality experiences and waking reality, LDs, and dreams are > >not, so long as you are having an OBE. Waking reality cannot have any real > >basis in reality if taken outside of the above context. This keyboard I > >type on are swarms of elusive quarks, with vast, really vast spaces of > >nothingness in between and things called charges, which also have no real > >meaning except mathematically, holding everything together, as if they > > Yes, I understand what you are saying here, Ken. Dreams, reality, the > other levels, I slip between them all daily, until I wonder exactly > how reality justifies itself other than as a concensus. > > >really have the power to do so. The only thing that is truly truly real, is > >thought. That is the one thing we absolutely know exists above all else. > >Everything else is just something nature uses to support thought. Atoms, > >OBEs, whatever. > > Yes, thought is power and event. On the Astral, the power of thought > shapes reality, and people meet teletubbies and cartoon rabbits. In > the UnderWorld, thought as Intent is what gets the job done and the > visitors back out of there. On the Upper World, thought is analysed > for its integrity and virtue. The Middle World replicates reality but > without the factor of Time. These many worlds are all jolly strange > places. including the one we spend most of our waking time in! Before you vanish completely in a puff of infinite possibilities, I would suggest that the poor people in the World Trade Center understood that reality was rather more than a personal fantasy. I have no doubt that they wished that they were elsewhere or prayed to their God to save them, but they were not miraculously transported to safety nor did the Hand of God reach down to pluck them out of harm's way. Instead, reality, in the form of a 60-tonne airliner travelling at 400-500mph plunged into the building and, in an instant, smashed them to pieces. I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as 'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Spazzmodicus Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:36:16 +0000 (UTC) Organization: OWDS Inc. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <9reuqt$189$1@news.chatlink.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <9r891e$vbs$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <9r96rq$sg4$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust40.tnt4.louisville.ky.da.uu.net X-Trace: news.chatlink.com 1004207776 1289 63.25.209.40 (27 Oct 2001 18:36:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@chatlink.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:36:16 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Xnews/4.06.22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-hub.siol.net!zur.uu.net!ash.uu.net!dfw.uu.net!sea.uu.net!news.chatlink.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73015 "Bart" wrote in news:9r96rq$sg4$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net: > There were other things... I felt like I knew how to perform miracles. > I was also certain that clairvoyants could see a light shining from me > for miles. > Bart You're lucky you didn't jump out of a window. I'm lucky I didn't jump out a window. I've experienced these sensations...thought I WAS God, thought there were super-powerful beings following me around in everyday life and guiding me....and I also did the "made an ass of myself" thing. It was all through meditation years ago without any such knowledge of Kundalini. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Spazzmodicus "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a persistent one" ###### From: none@nospam.com (ao) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 45 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:41:59 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.92.88.231 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1004207824 65.92.88.231 (Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:37:04 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:37:04 EDT Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news1.tor.metronet.ca!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73016 On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 19:19:51 +0100, Ian H Spedding wrote: >In article <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- >moore@ntlworld.com says... >> Yes, thought is power and event. On the Astral, the power of thought >> shapes reality, and people meet teletubbies and cartoon rabbits. In >> the UnderWorld, thought as Intent is what gets the job done and the >> visitors back out of there. On the Upper World, thought is analysed >> for its integrity and virtue. The Middle World replicates reality but >> without the factor of Time. These many worlds are all jolly strange >> places. including the one we spend most of our waking time in! > >Before you vanish completely in a puff of infinite possibilities, I >would suggest that the poor people in the World Trade Center >understood that reality was rather more than a personal fantasy. > >I have no doubt that they wished that they were elsewhere or prayed to >their God to save them, but they were not miraculously transported to >safety nor did the Hand of God reach down to pluck them out of harm's >way. > >Instead, reality, in the form of a 60-tonne airliner travelling at >400-500mph plunged into the building and, in an instant, smashed them >to pieces. > >I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as >'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in >Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want >to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of >the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter >how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. Hi Ian, I don't think Julia was trying to persuade you of anything. I'm not sure where you got that idea! She was just expressing her point of view on this topic. You may feel this discussion is a bunch of nonsense, but others who have experienced such things may feel a need to try to understand them. One way to do so is to share our ideas and views on what is going on in these experiences. We each may use our own terminology and impose our own unique interpretations on our experiences, but hopefully some of us are gaining further insights into these types of experiences because of it. I find it it interesting anyway. :-) /ao May all your thoughts be good ones... ###### From: David Mitchell Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:29:54 +0000 Organization: Paradise Computer Software Message-ID: <1004255023.11340.0.nnrp-01.c2de2739@news.demon.co.uk> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd91023.2271156@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda6426.1757405@news.ntlworld.com> Reply-To: david@edenroad.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: edenroad.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: edenroad.demon.co.uk:194.222.39.57 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1004255023 nnrp-01:11340 NO-IDENT edenroad.demon.co.uk:194.222.39.57 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net User-Agent: KNode/0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Lines: 22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!edenroad.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73039 Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:01:41 GMT, Janice wrote: >>> >> > I heard some loud and clear New Age profundities, such as: > >>> These may seem profund but Shamanically they are profound. These all >>> have a genuine Shamanic significance, and a loud and clear message. > > Incidentally, Shamanism has been practised globally for a good million > years, with Shamans 'dying' to save the souls of their flock. So when > exactly did the New Age start? Uh, Julia, there have only been what we might recognise as humans for about 200,000 years. -- ======================================================================= = David - Visit www.thehungersite.com = Mitchell - Feed someone for nothing ======================================================================= ###### Message-ID: <3BDB3595.8F13B9F2@cogeco.ca> From: Tien Yen X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en]C-AtHome0405 (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <3BD9C9B6.CA1CA9FA@cogeco.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 50 Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:31:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.226.115.153 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.busy1.on.home.com 1004221889 24.226.115.153 (Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:31:29 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:31:29 PDT Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news1.busy1.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73043 Janice wrote: > > In article <3BD9C9B6.CA1CA9FA@cogeco.ca>, TienYen@cogeco.ca says... > > Hi all > > > > Bart wrote: > > > > > > Janice wrote in message ... > > > >In article , dorthd@televar.com > > > >says... > > > >> "Janice" wrote in message > > > > > > > >> > Mine occurred in mid January 1992. > > > >> > > > >> Mine was also in January, but way back in '71. > > > > > > > >Must be something not quite right about January ... :-) > > > > > > '80 > > > > Hey, sign me up! January '96, at the tender age of 43. I've been > > catching up on this thread & just realized that Jan '96 was the > > beginning of my wall-to-wall mental upheaval. > > What's your perspective on it now? Do you think it benefitted you in any > way? Ultimately, yes; fire hardens what it does not consume ;> Like you, I don't recommend it as a path to 'enlightenment', at least not while you're trying to hold down a full-time job. This was the time when I had my first true OBE - i.e. being aware of leaving my body and visiting someone far away. Most mornings I would awaken feeling good, but by the time I had to leave for work there would be a tremendous pressure building up in the area of my solar plexus. The only release I could get was lying face down and concentrating on my breath which would result in strong muscle spasms in my stomach. After a few minutes of this, I generally got back to almost normal. The energy in me threatened to rip me apart: in other moments, I felt that if I unleashed this energy on those around me, I could be unstoppable. Weird. In many ways I am stronger now, but have increased what I would call my 'compassion' for others. Hell of a ride, though. Tien Yen ###### From: "Syralid" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <9r891e$vbs$1@slb3.atl.mindspring.net> <9r96rq$sg4$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 82 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 16:09:52 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.200.124.176 X-Complaints-To: abuse@videotron.ca X-Trace: wagner.videotron.net 1004260073 24.200.124.176 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 04:07:53 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 04:07:53 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!wesley.videotron.net!wagner.videotron.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73029 Janice wrote in message news:MPG.1641fc5a17cea7ba989d20@news.starlinx.com... > In article <9r96rq$sg4$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com > says... > > > > Janice wrote in message ... > > > >How long did this go on for you? > > > > The main part of the experience lasted many hours until I finally managed to > > get to sleep - at which time I had an exceptional dream. But it was still > > rather intense for about a week. I really made an ass out of myself during > > that time - but I felt so certain of my actions. > > I think in my case the full-bore power sensation and state of unbridled > cosmic terror lasted several days. But I still felt like I had energy > running up and down my spine for months, gradually lessening in > intensity. Other physical effects such as headaches and burning > sensations went on for months too, as did the anxiety, depression and > nightmares. All told it took me the better part of a year to put myself > back together after having been blown apart so spectacularly. But at > least it inspired me to become more critically minded. :) > > > >> But my body physically > > >> rattled sooooo much. There was an electric current flowing through me > > that > > >> was so powerfull that I felt I would burst into flame if I didn't > > maintain > > >> some kind of control. > > > > > >Yeah, I had the megavolts of electricity sensation too (that seems to be > > >the baseline sensation that all these experiences have in common). I > > >also felt like I was barely containing some kind of raw power that > > >threatened to explode through my head. And that was just the beginning. > > >:) > > > > There were other things... I felt like I knew how to perform miracles. > > I felt like I could shoot lightning from my fingertips, hurt and possibly > kill people with my mind, and cause earthquakes and storms. Guess I was > only in touch with the dark side of the force. ;) Whoa, not sure how you got to that, but I had that feeling once too... that if I willed it hard enough I could shape some aspects of reality. Though I was in my room, doing some kundalini exercises I had read, and then it got crazy. I was hearing weird sounds... (ever HEARD a fractal???) Anyway, and I was feeling like a nuclear megapower plant... I was in my room and I felt intense spikes of energy from everywhere... I was scared shitless that if I didn't control myself 100% I'd go nuts and destroy half a block lol > > I > > was also certain that clairvoyants could see a light shining from me for > > miles. > > I fancied eventually, after I had become a total wreck, that I was > sending out a psychic beacon to occultists and passing negative entities. > :) > > -- > > The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter > is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan > > My homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html > > The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html > > The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-XEt46PQ+9wwFTayDsPzhvuSjITe3V5mKj1fx7TOp9th9XcPVg/8 Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:14:13 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-9JrbSeIVBWJ8t84v3GEyb0wLjOv4RCTazdIXvfV6Oopbsow2ux3Oy4FgHnPcvRYfUMgwHOqS3qdN20m!codBSFxOjJXiI2ijcye5NfzFuNae4EilCVHCZjA5FGKnvkpCa4eZ3uGlNmbKueu3NEZvaRhFfFet!cgKIagN+86HGpQmgIKxtpg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 03:14:13 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73033 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as > 'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in > Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want > to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of > the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter > how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. I don't think anyone's interested in persuading you, Ian. I couldn't even persuade you of any psychophysiological explanation for the "kundalini" phenomenon because my understanding of what that might be is far too vague. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda9320.3926081@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdad694.967084@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdaedeb.954020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-cl6NdIV5U+aPwg15iacaUPLmC9Iqj9Zs8p3BL8tIVjI4+CaorFq Lines: 38 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:26:04 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-WXls4j3m1tniyg6F9mr70Z0pbE38L5P5ojrkmdWcSdLKcsMBnxQGXVdf+MT2/6M9A3IOJ/LgsVBZbHp!oo0uyKpJnLCvOGBrvcjXiTBcld+dMlwV2ZutQajeFZfqDOx+VnSA0AzerRMHlRYqVe0wESPa/Qk2!k25ZgDuflpu86F6G0Zismg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 03:26:04 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73032 In article <3bdaedeb.954020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca>, none@nospam.com says... > BTW, has anyone else noticed how many people who have experienced > OBE's and lucid dreams have also had experiences in which they have > felt 'energy' circulating through their body, or experienced kundalini > like experiences, or experienced what they felt were higher states of > consciousness in the waking state, etc? I personally lean towards the > idea that this is not just a coincidence. I think Patrica Garfield > also leaned towards this view in her book "Pathway To Ecstacy", if I > am not mixing that up with some other book. Yes, she talked about focusing on and magnifying the vibey sensation first noticed in her LDs into a strong, pervasive energy sensation that became such a bother that she consulted a meditation master to learn how to subdue it. It may well not be a coincidence that a number of LD'rs have had this kind of thing happen, even from a strictly materialist point of view, since it's possible that excessive lucid dreaming, or indulgence in certain lucid dreaming induction techniques, can alter our neurochemical balance and thereby perhaps make us prone to problems. Alas, not even for the sake of science would I try to bring on that hellish state again so this possibility could be explored. :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-hGHFQCTDtHHwfTmCukSRHHpsbkCRUQDFtgspfduo7W7xM9Lqt+0 Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:30:25 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-71crckXzWiWOcecsz4v4RMSiaF0qc0aZfgGX772sXTRBClm9o2JxphxCIYDTn32SbpRKJbhpHsxfnJj!/B17C7n+Dle+YaT899zxpu/r2G2I4vP3XHWDq3SEkL6lOKRr9PvSYR6RBxXrZkasCJQtERAmSSBg!TEYtZgQPIS/w/fRK0QM6sg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 03:30:25 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanjose!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73035 In article , sculpt@privatei.com says... > Thanks. It's an interesting idea, this Sufi stuff. Although cynical, I got > this idea in my head that Sufism is a lot like a good lier. He says "Sorry > I didn't meet with you yesterday but I ended up with my girlfriend" and you > say "But I was with your girlfriend yesterday." and recognizing he was just > caught in a lie says "Oh, I didn't tell you I have a new girlfriend now?". > Changing the truth to suit the current circumstances. LOL, LOL, you caught onto that problem fast. Jay pursued Sufi studies for twenty years before deciding there was far too much deception and manipulation involved for his taste. :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <3BD9C9B6.CA1CA9FA@cogeco.ca> <3BDB3595.8F13B9F2@cogeco.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-Sjg4db1mvCG6L8c3hctIM6IvdXtiI5qTfOhNOEBl5D+Q1sViERO Lines: 50 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 22:37:37 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-ZpM7pNnYJP/JUPDpc4gNkGNrryDiBHxM09nLe2ta49LD+syMRa8zBhK1Ldipz98MQAvA8NhSxrVcAxV!dQ/RDmxoK8fzqxLaqWJweoyKmm1yLp7CerFvwfOIcUtTrHpWDbREuUX5d4cQ51tFK3OHczdplc2y!ZBS5rx0/ygPprH3JmRjFIw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 03:37:37 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!easynews!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73031 In article <3BDB3595.8F13B9F2@cogeco.ca>, TienYen@cogeco.ca says... > Janice wrote: > > What's your perspective on it now? Do you think it benefitted you in any > > way? > > Ultimately, yes; fire hardens what it does not consume ;> Yeah, so you've said. :) > Like you, I > don't recommend it as a path to 'enlightenment', at least not while > you're trying to hold down a full-time job. This was the time when I > had my first true OBE - i.e. being aware of leaving my body and visiting > someone far away. > > Most mornings I would awaken feeling good, but by the time I had to > leave for work there would be a tremendous pressure building up in the > area of my solar plexus. The only release I could get was lying face > down and concentrating on my breath which would result in strong muscle > spasms in my stomach. After a few minutes of this, I generally got back > to almost normal. > > The energy in me threatened to rip me apart: in other moments, I felt > that if I unleashed this energy on those around me, I could be > unstoppable. Weird. I felt like I could do something like that if only I knew how. Guess it's just as well that I didn't. ;) > In many ways I am stronger now, but have increased what I would call my > 'compassion' for others. > > Hell of a ride, though. Yes, I think it's overkill. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "Frederick" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 29 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 00:58:47 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.201.82.194 X-Complaints-To: abuse@videotron.ca X-Trace: weber.videotron.net 1004258679 24.201.82.194 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 03:44:39 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 03:44:39 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!wesley.videotron.net!weber.videotron.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73026 > > I heard some loud and clear New Age profundities, such as: > > > > "Your first concern is death. To die, is to live." > > > > "Emotions cradle the power of being, to be disclosed." > > > > "Integrating pain for harmonious holistic growth." > > > > "Get rid of the devil, Janice." > How about this one? 'Leprechauns who don't steal gold think they're crazy too" -- All the best, Frederick ---------------------------------------------------------- "Dreams are real while they last. Can we say more of life?" Havelock Ellis ---------------------------------------------------------- ###### From: "Delboy" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 09:04:09 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 41 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73023 Ok, but could you tell me what is the purpose of following this? After reading the replies to this thread , it sounds very risky for whatever the return in such investment is. Delboy "Douglas D. Anderson" wrote in message news:pxjC7.736359$T97.104193991@typhoon.nyroc.rr.com... > > "Raistlin Majere" wrote in message news:3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com... > > what is Kundalini? Can anyone explain how to accomplish this? > > > This is not really related to lucid dreaming, but... > 'Kundalini' is the primordial creative energy. In the Western world, > this was discovered by Freud and called "Id", called by Fritz Perles > "Primal Energy". You need a qualified teacher to help you with this, > releasing Kundalini without preparation can result in insanity, mental > problems, nervous breakdown, etc. In America, the school established > by Yogi Bhajan, his trained and initiated teachers can help you with this, > and in general your out-of-pocket expenses should be extremely > reasonable... they aren't money freaks like TM. In any case, it can take > a couple of years of physical and mental training, as well as dietary > discipline (strictly vegetarian, diet consists mainly of extremely hot > curried rice, nuts and yogurt) in order to capably channel and utilize > kundalini. It is difficult to maintain the level of dedication and devotion > required to be successful at this and to survive in western culture... > unless you want to move to India and live along the Ganges as a beggar, > you might be better off following a discipline more consistent with the > western world, such as shabda yoga, which has been successfully > integrated into western culture, or Zen, Bhakti, Hatha, etc... > > Cheers, > Doug Anderson > > ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 46 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 02:29:00 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.6 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004261221 216.241.33.6 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 02:27:01 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 02:27:01 MST Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73037 Janice wrote in message news:MPG.16454751e1dd4da0989d4d@news.starlinx.com... > In article , > sculpt@privatei.com says... > > > Thanks. It's an interesting idea, this Sufi stuff. Although cynical, I got > > this idea in my head that Sufism is a lot like a good lier. He says "Sorry > > I didn't meet with you yesterday but I ended up with my girlfriend" and you > > say "But I was with your girlfriend yesterday." and recognizing he was just > > caught in a lie says "Oh, I didn't tell you I have a new girlfriend now?". > > Changing the truth to suit the current circumstances. > > LOL, LOL, you caught onto that problem fast. Jay pursued Sufi studies > for twenty years before deciding there was far too much deception and > manipulation involved for his taste. :) > I think Jay's assessment, considering the length of time he spent studying it, is reason enough for me not to pursue it any further. Just as a side, I was listening to an interview with a Pakistani rock group called Janune(sp) on a public radio station which was quite interesting since the lead player talked a bit about Pakistani's feelings toward the US etc. but he also went into Sufism and its relation to their music which I thought was quite coincidental since I had just heard about Sufism here. Ken > -- > > The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter > is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan > > My homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html > > The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html > > The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <9rdbqn$ng4$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 35 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 02:33:52 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.6 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004261513 216.241.33.6 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 02:31:53 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 02:31:53 MST Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.netcologne.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73038 Bart wrote in message news:9rdbqn$ng4$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net... > > The Original Ken wrote in message ... > > > >Bart wrote in message > > >> "Through me flows the Word of God" was another phrase that kept getting > >> repeated. I was convinced this was The Second Coming of Christ. > > > >Do you suspect that the popular author that wrote the books "Conversations > >with God" was having a similar experience, or drug related, or bogus? > > > Never read the books. It wouldn't surprise me that the author had a similar > experience. It's an interesting series. It became a best seller almost overnight (no doubt because of the title). Our library even carries the first book of the series so I checked it out. I was surprised by some of it, but it may also have been no more than just an accurate reflection of current popular western beliefs about God. Ken > > Bart > > > ###### From: "Delboy" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:03:20 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3BD870A1.9090106@yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 86 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!sn-xit-04!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73030 http://www.kundaliniyoga.org/ They do a free online course with lots of steps for you to try. Delboy "Raistlin Majere" wrote in message news:3BD870A1.9090106@yahoo.com... > ok so the next question that i have is what is the process for > performing this? Is there something i can read that takes me step by > step through the process? I would like to read something about the > process of performing it BEFORE I make a descision to try it. > > dorothy wrote: > > > "Janice" wrote in message > > news:MPG.1641c41cf62e0495989d1a@news.starlinx.com... > > > >>In article <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket>, delete@nightc.usa.net > >>says... > >> > >>>On Thu, 25 Oct 2001 03:45:25 GMT, Janice wrote: > >>> > >>>>Glad you brought that up, though. Speculations about limbic system > >>>>activity are the closest thing I've seen to hint at a > >>>> > > neurophysiological > > > >>>>explanation for this stuff. The amygdala (one of the limbic system > >>>>structures) supposedly mediates fear, and I sure felt like a panic > >>>> > > button > > > >>>>had been pressed and stuck in the "on" position in my brain. Now if > >>>> > > only > > > >>>>there were a good reason for that to have happened ... :) > >>>> > >>>I think the neurological phenomenon known as 'kindling' is a plausable > >>>explaination. The term is usually used in reference to epilepsy but it > >>> > > doesn't > > > >>>necessarily have to result in seizure. And the limbic structures seem to > >>> > > be > > > >>>the most prone to kindling. > >>> > >>Yes, I was reading a bit about kindling in this connection last night. > >>What would set it off, though? Maybe a major serotonin deficit > >>disinhibiting the limbic structures? I know that right before it > >>happened to me I had spent several days with very little sleep or food (I > >>was writing a soul-searching essay a little too intensely :), which may > >>have knocked me out of whack chemically. > >> > > > > I had a similar experience many years ago; a psychotic episode seemingly > > brought on by several factors including lack of food and sleep. Like you, I > > also had the sensation at one point of a huge amount of energy trying to > > escape through my head - as if it were on the verge of exploding. > > > > There was a book published in the 70's called 'The Eden Express' (written by > > Mark Vonnegut, the son of the novelist), describing his own very interesting > > bout with psychosis. It has the best description and explanation that I've > > read. I've also heard that some epileptic seizures can be described in > > semi-positive terms as 'enlightening' experiences. If these things have > > anything to do with Kundalini, I can see why you'd want to be careful with > > it. Enlightening experiences I don't mind, but I can do without the fried > > brain part. > > > > > > > ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <9rdlam$r9m$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 164 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 03:23:50 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.7 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004264545 216.241.33.7 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 03:22:25 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 03:22:25 MST Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!amsnews01.chello.com!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73034 Bart wrote in message news:9rdlam$r9m$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net... > > The Original Ken wrote in message ... > > >I had an experience almost identicle to Barts but lasting only a day. I > >can't help but wonder if Jesus himself had such an experience in a > >permanent form and if that was the case, and if that was his secret to > >sacred knowledge, then could this experience of mine be something similar > or > >was Jesus just in a permanent state and I just in a temporary state of > >disillusionment. I imagine quite a few people wonder about just what was > >the nature of Jesus's knowledge (if indeed it was knowledge). > > > >Ken > > > Ken - you know there are various "states of consciousness". This situation > is not "knowledge" - it is a "state". Jesus' last name was not "Christ" ;-) > "Christ" is a term for a state of consciousness. (You know all this, of > course - I'm just playing. But my writing is also for the benefit of > others.) Actually, I didn't know this. You would think this would be something they would teach you in religious studies. Maybe I was out that day. > > However, I do believe that Jesus developed this "state". There are > writings, separate from the Bible, that suggest he received training from > those involved with esoteric teachings. As mentioned in another post, the > Sufis make claim to his development. I cannot confirm this, but I cannot > deny that his expressions fall in line with the Sufi writings. He must have surprised his teachers. :) Sufi writings by definition could have changed to take Jesus into account. Just guessing here of course, I don't know enough about it. > > I don't believe you were in a "temporary state of disillusionment". I don't think so either. > As embarrassed as I became, I've never actually felt I was incorrect with my > statements and actions. I simply could no longer support them - mentally. > Because the mental doors had closed. Awareness is still what it is - but > the walls of mentality block the flow. In my opinion, your situation was a > "temporary state of enlightenment". It happens... I agree. I have also had hypnogogic episodes where I would have a full understanding of some important concept and like the above episode the doors would close when the experience ended. You can actually feel the knowledge ebb away in real time and try as you may, there is no way to encapsulate it into something you can take with you. > > As you suggest, I believe Jesus had reached a point where he was operating > from a "permanent state of enlightenment"- the type of which extends beyond > the barriers of mentality. In many esoteric teachings there are various > levels of consciousness. I'm sure you are somewhat familiar with them. > They start at the bottom with the "physical", then the "astral", then the > "mental", then into the spiritual planes. Each of these states of > consciousness result in a different perspective of the ones below... For > example, while in the "astral" the "physical" becomes a dream. The "astral" > is the origin of emotion. I have not actually felt states of enlightenment while OBE (other than the pre-OBE hypnogogic episodes I described above), but rather altered states that I consider equivelent to my waking states. This would include different memories or ideas about how to proceed etc. I have also not really felt the different levels that you describe if indeed these are defined by different mental states (or levels of enlightenment). I have of course been in varying environments that alluded to different levels of spirituality, but that is different than mental states. > > Over and over I have tried to explain that the Out-of-body experience > ***IS*** a dream - but ****not**** to say that it cannot access the physical > if you are operating from another level beyond the astral. After all, the > "astral" is emotion. Emotion doesn't give you a clear view of anything. It > is all encoded with personal symbols. OK, gotcha. So it looks like my next step is to try and find the doorway to the level above the astral. Have you been there from an OBE and if so can you suggest ways to get through the door? Just as a side, I remember that discussion we had awhile back about the role of emotions in the nature of our being and I found it to be quite illuminating. > > This is why I always stressed "Spirituality" in most of my posts over the > years. One cannot expect quality results from OOB if one is not spiritually > based. One can have many interesting experiences, but these experiences > will rarely touch on a solid foundation if you are not already situated in a > level beyond mentality. When I go OBE I usually have some preconcieved notion about what I want to achieve before I get going just so I can stay focused. The last time I was out was to experiment with some of Janice's observations about manipulating the environment and as expected the environment was hardly something I would call spiritual, which was fine for what I was trying to do. Other times I have gone out with the intention of finding spiritual enlightenment and in the very least have had discussions with seemingly enlightened beings or would find myself in environments that had a more spiritual feel about them usually in the form of beauty or spiritual warmth although again, I can't say my mental state approached what I would have liked during those times. > > A number of people have criticized me for my constant mention of "Spirit". > It is the fact that so many folks refuse to include "Spirit" in their > travels. I'm not quite sure why so many people aren't interested in the > spiritual side of OOB - since it is a spiritual situation... It always > seems to be a simple human function for them. It *is* a simple human > function for dreams. But it is also access to the spiritual and it should > be respected as such - else it is worth nothing more than a dream. > Awareness is reality but awareness is kept alive by the the flow of Spirit. I like that attitude. It may just be I have not been able to achieve higher mental levels due to the distractions of the common OBE. It's tough to get to that golden staircase when the path is blocked by a beautiful woman that is just dying to tear your clothes off. :) > > You know about the "flow", Ken. I've read your stuff about the "astral > breeze". You know this breeze is only present when you permit yourself to > be free of desire. I hadn't thought about that, but other than the desire to learn you may be right. I always look forward to the magnetic wind. It's really the only way to travel. :) The best part of going with the flow is the sheer excitement of not knowing what will come up next, or how long you will be there before getting scooped up again to go off to your next environment. But again, my mental capacity does not seem to change much. It's still the same 'ol me. I would expect that changes in scenes would bring about changes in mental capacity as well. Or maybe it does and I've missed it. The comfort you receive is a part of your training. It > doesn't belong to the Sufis - it belongs to your source - just as Jesus only > knew the source. > > Bart Ken > > > > > ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 55 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 03:31:27 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.7 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004264968 216.241.33.7 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 03:29:28 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 03:29:28 MST Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73036 Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message news:3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com... > On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 21:04:24 -0600, "The Original Ken" > wrote: > >To be more specific, we have come to relate all experiences that are not > >waking reality experiences to waking reality experiences. But where I'm > >coming from these days, it's just as valid to compare, say, an OBE > >experience to all non-OBE experiences, or all LD experiences to non-LD > >experiences with the same weight. In other words, it's not that waking > >reality is real and OBEs are not, so much as it is that *any* of the 4 > >experiences are real when you are experiencing them and the other 3 are not > >when you are not experiencing them. So yes, OBEs are true real honest to > >goodness waking reality experiences and waking reality, LDs, and dreams are > >not, so long as you are having an OBE. Waking reality cannot have any real > >basis in reality if taken outside of the above context. This keyboard I > >type on are swarms of elusive quarks, with vast, really vast spaces of > >nothingness in between and things called charges, which also have no real > >meaning except mathematically, holding everything together, as if they > > Yes, I understand what you are saying here, Ken. Dreams, reality, the > other levels, I slip between them all daily, until I wonder exactly > how reality justifies itself other than as a concensus. As someone's signature says "..albeit a persistant one" > > >really have the power to do so. The only thing that is truly truly real, is > >thought. That is the one thing we absolutely know exists above all else. > >Everything else is just something nature uses to support thought. Atoms, > >OBEs, whatever. > > Yes, thought is power and event. On the Astral, the power of thought > shapes reality, and people meet teletubbies and cartoon rabbits. In > the UnderWorld, thought as Intent is what gets the job done and the > visitors back out of there. On the Upper World, thought is analysed > for its integrity and virtue. The Middle World replicates reality but > without the factor of Time. These many worlds are all jolly strange > places. including the one we spend most of our waking time in! Now that I have more control over my environment, I will have to explore the powers of thought a little more thoroughly. Ken > > Love from julia > > Julia ###### From: none@nospam.com (ao) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bdbf3d7.442969@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda9320.3926081@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdad694.967084@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdaedeb.954020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 68 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 12:43:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.92.81.140 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1004272702 65.92.81.140 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 07:38:22 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 07:38:22 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73027 On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 03:26:04 GMT, Janice wrote: >In article <3bdaedeb.954020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca>, none@nospam.com >says... > >> BTW, has anyone else noticed how many people who have experienced >> OBE's and lucid dreams have also had experiences in which they have >> felt 'energy' circulating through their body, or experienced kundalini >> like experiences, or experienced what they felt were higher states of >> consciousness in the waking state, etc? I personally lean towards the >> idea that this is not just a coincidence. I think Patrica Garfield >> also leaned towards this view in her book "Pathway To Ecstacy", if I >> am not mixing that up with some other book. > >Yes, she talked about focusing on and magnifying the vibey sensation >first noticed in her LDs into a strong, pervasive energy sensation that >became such a bother that she consulted a meditation master to learn how >to subdue it. Heh, interesting how we both came to a completely different conclusion about what this book was about! The book was called Pathway To Ecstacy, not Pathway To Problems. :-) As I remember it, Patricria put forth the hypothesis that her lucid dreams were actually being caused by the flowing of this energy up her spine. Likewise for myself, my OBE's and lucid dreams started occurring around the time I began to feel this 'energy' starting to flow quite strongly through my body in the sleep state. It was such a prominent sensation that it would often make me become fully aware in the sleep state. Just prior to these experiences starting, I went for several days feeling as if the floor and ground was shaking somewhat when I walked around outside or in buildings. Upon closer examination I realized it was a sensation inside me that was causing this feeling. I don't think it was a coincidence that my lucid dreams and OBE's, and strong feelings of energy flowing through me in the sleep state, started occurring shortly after this experience. My suggestion is that it was this 'subtle energy' flowing in my body that brought on these experiences. That is how it felt to me anyway. >It may well not be a coincidence that a number of LD'rs have had this >kind of thing happen, even from a strictly materialist point of view, >since it's possible that excessive lucid dreaming, or indulgence in >certain lucid dreaming induction techniques, can alter our neurochemical >balance and thereby perhaps make us prone to problems. Alas, not even >for the sake of science would I try to bring on that hellish state again >so this possibility could be explored. :) Well just to keep things in perspective here, not everyone has negative experiences from these types of experiences. My experiences with this 'energy' have always been relatively moderate, with no negative impact on my mental state whatsoever, (perhaps that's debatable :-) ). I believe that was the same for Patricia Garfiled as well, at least what she described in her book. As I remember, she only reported having a few minor physical problems caused by her own improper use of acupuncture needles. I don't know how she views it all now. It may well be that this 'release' can occur at different levels or rates, hence the differences in people's experiences with this. Also differences in people's physiology, mental state, belief system, and whatever else at the time may also be a factor in this as well. I am not trying to diminish the negative impact of yours and others experiences in any way, as I am sure that must have been a hellish time for you. I am merely pointing out an apparent relationship I have noticed with people who have had similar experiences with feeling 'energy' flowing in their body or 'kundalini release' type experiences and a tendancy towards having spontaneous OBE's and lucid dreams. /ao May all your thoughts be good ones... ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: 28 Oct 2001 07:57:31 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 44 Message-ID: <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-073.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.90 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73045 In message-id , Ian wrote: > >In article <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- >moore@ntlworld.com says... [...] >> Yes, thought is power and event. On the Astral, the power of thought >> shapes reality, and people meet teletubbies and cartoon rabbits. In >> the UnderWorld, thought as Intent is what gets the job done and the >> visitors back out of there. On the Upper World, thought is analysed >> for its integrity and virtue. The Middle World replicates reality but >> without the factor of Time. These many worlds are all jolly strange >> places. including the one we spend most of our waking time in! Beware Capitalisation. :) > >Before you vanish completely in a puff of infinite possibilities, I >would suggest that the poor people in the World Trade Center >understood that reality was rather more than a personal fantasy. > >I have no doubt that they wished that they were elsewhere or prayed to >their God to save them, but they were not miraculously transported to >safety nor did the Hand of God reach down to pluck them out of harm's >way. > >Instead, reality, in the form of a 60-tonne airliner travelling at >400-500mph plunged into the building and, in an instant, smashed them >to pieces. > >I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as >'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in >Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want >to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of >the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter >how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. > PZ? -- Sherilyn|NOTE: The real Sherilyn has nothing against anonymous remailers, but she does not use them. http://www.sherilyn.org.uk/ The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send me unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail. ###### From: Spazzmodicus Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:09:34 +0000 (UTC) Organization: OWDS Inc. Lines: 16 Message-ID: <9rhe4a$9lj$2@news.chatlink.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <9rdlam$r9m$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust24.tnt3.louisville.ky.da.uu.net X-Trace: news.chatlink.com 1004288974 9907 63.25.208.24 (28 Oct 2001 17:09:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@chatlink.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:09:34 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Xnews/4.06.22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!uunet!lax.uu.net!sea.uu.net!news.chatlink.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73046 "The Original Ken" wrote in news:B%QC7.185$j14.6668@wormhole.dimensional.com: > I like that attitude. It may just be I have not been able to achieve > higher mental levels due to the distractions of the common OBE. It's > tough to get to that golden staircase when the path is blocked by a > beautiful woman that is just dying to tear your clothes off. :) ROTFLMAO!!! You're killing me Ken....heh heh. ~~~~~~~~~~~~ Spazzmodicus "Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a persistent one" ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd91023.2271156@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda6426.1757405@news.ntlworld.com> <1004255023.11340.0.nnrp-01.c2de2739@news.demon.co.uk> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-8FaK28K6cqsd8bJH48Ty7sFAuTfDfnox188s3Shvn3XMP8iTFOX Lines: 35 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:11:19 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-253VvT3VMCEsfkCS1+BlfV6FLK5RzuyMTDgg8KUvIjjR9WS10CoE5FoC+jOtWF/h5lxCzti1B53vjWp!mCNBXZvi+w+dUHO5NUCPE2ATjqeQTOZ8pErRIVXJjswYuRP3E7/W5JUZV0hSZNl/S/jqnirmr0l8!jJSt5fL360q+/S9CuIiaLw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:11:19 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!64.152.100.70.MISMATCH!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!news-west.rr.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73052 In article <1004255023.11340.0.nnrp-01.c2de2739@news.demon.co.uk>, david@edenroad.demon.co.uk says... > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > > On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:01:41 GMT, Janice wrote: > >>> >> > I heard some loud and clear New Age profundities, such as: > > > >>> These may seem profund but Shamanically they are profound. These all > >>> have a genuine Shamanic significance, and a loud and clear message. > > > > Incidentally, Shamanism has been practised globally for a good million > > years, with Shamans 'dying' to save the souls of their flock. So when > > exactly did the New Age start? Whenever that sort of talk became popularized (and probably, from your perspective, superficialized). > Uh, Julia, there have only been what we might recognise as humans for about > 200,000 years. Can't you just picture a Homo erectus shaman, though? :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bdc3bbc.21094749@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd91023.2271156@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda6426.1757405@news.ntlworld.com> <1004255023.11340.0.nnrp-01.c2de2739@news.demon.co.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 23 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:24:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.18.130 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004289887 62.255.18.130 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:24:47 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:24:47 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73048 On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:29:54 +0000, David Mitchell wrote: >Uh, Julia, there have only been what we might recognise as humans for about >200,000 years. Whatever have you been reading? Richard Leakey's book 'The origin of Humankind' dates the African oriin of bipedalism to betwen 10 and 5 million years ago. The earliest evidence of brain expansion and of making stone tools coincide at 2.5 million years ago. There was a major advance in the manufacture of tools (Achulean period) 1.5 million years ago. Evidence of meat eating was strong 1 million years ago (something not generally associated with great apes.).The first use of fire was dated to 700,000 BC. You are probably referring to the Mousterian period 200,000 years ago, in which there was another major advance in tool manufacture. The origin of modern humans in Africa was dated to the same period, but is now being pushed back dramatically.There is plenty of evidence for communal and co-operative existence for much longer ago than that. Obviously, dates are approximate Love from Julia. Julia ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda9320.3926081@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdad694.967084@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdaedeb.954020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdbf3d7.442969@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-BmnQUbc9Btnz/NelsAG13QRtTr1hX4rn7hFlpw3c6d0xMv4RLTA Lines: 117 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:30:44 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-1CrRbHddybG7NzYrlEf+LTS6xyfLeCe/XSju4oxSm65Gf/8JcaHjJtiu41/0siXztPQhsX+L9qq14M0!OPMXNmEnBkDBZzPGo8xpZxQOD4Iu4Pn7oMSw+UsU9e449IXC5cClFy3ypDyJyN4Bilu7koSvmr/a!Ff/UbC/r9zxGFIyZigPxvA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:30:44 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!feeder.qis.net!newshub.northeast.verio.net!verio!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!news.voicenet.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73050 In article <3bdbf3d7.442969@news1.qc.sympatico.ca>, none@nospam.com says... > On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 03:26:04 GMT, Janice wrote: > > >In article <3bdaedeb.954020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca>, none@nospam.com > >says... > > > >> BTW, has anyone else noticed how many people who have experienced > >> OBE's and lucid dreams have also had experiences in which they have > >> felt 'energy' circulating through their body, or experienced kundalini > >> like experiences, or experienced what they felt were higher states of > >> consciousness in the waking state, etc? I personally lean towards the > >> idea that this is not just a coincidence. I think Patrica Garfield > >> also leaned towards this view in her book "Pathway To Ecstacy", if I > >> am not mixing that up with some other book. > > > >Yes, she talked about focusing on and magnifying the vibey sensation > >first noticed in her LDs into a strong, pervasive energy sensation that > >became such a bother that she consulted a meditation master to learn how > >to subdue it. > > Heh, interesting how we both came to a completely different conclusion > about what this book was about! The book was called Pathway To > Ecstacy, not Pathway To Problems. :-) She would not be the first person I've seen romanticize her problems. > As I remember it, Patricria put > forth the hypothesis that her lucid dreams were actually being caused > by the flowing of this energy up her spine. Likewise for myself, my > OBE's and lucid dreams started occurring around the time I began to > feel this 'energy' starting to flow quite strongly through my body in > the sleep state. It was such a prominent sensation that it would often > make me become fully aware in the sleep state. Just prior to these > experiences starting, I went for several days feeling as if the floor > and ground was shaking somewhat when I walked around outside or in > buildings. Upon closer examination I realized it was a sensation > inside me that was causing this feeling. I don't think it was a > coincidence that my lucid dreams and OBE's, and strong feelings of > energy flowing through me in the sleep state, started occurring > shortly after this experience. My suggestion is that it was this > 'subtle energy' flowing in my body that brought on these experiences. > That is how it felt to me anyway. Perhaps the strange sensation kept you more alert than usual, making it easier to be lucid in your dreams, or was related to an excess of aminergic compounds which would make it be easier to be lucid since those compounds are important for a number of the functions of consciousness (think of how caffeine fosters wakefulness but in large doses can cause a "buzz" and shakes). So there could well be a connection between the energy sensation on the lucid dreams without the energy directly causing the lucid dreams. Many lucid dreamers don't have any energy sensations, or only have them at the start of OBEs and WILDs and not all day long, as I'm sure you know. > >It may well not be a coincidence that a number of LD'rs have had this > >kind of thing happen, even from a strictly materialist point of view, > >since it's possible that excessive lucid dreaming, or indulgence in > >certain lucid dreaming induction techniques, can alter our neurochemical > >balance and thereby perhaps make us prone to problems. Alas, not even > >for the sake of science would I try to bring on that hellish state again > >so this possibility could be explored. :) > > Well just to keep things in perspective here, not everyone has > negative experiences from these types of experiences. I'm aware of that. I've even see a couple of people report no psychological effects at all in association with it. But it would likely be negative again for me, so I'm not about to try to replicate it. > My experiences > with this 'energy' have always been relatively moderate, with no > negative impact on my mental state whatsoever, (perhaps that's > debatable :-) ). I believe that was the same for Patricia Garfiled as > well, at least what she described in her book. As I remember, she only > reported having a few minor physical problems caused by her own > improper use of acupuncture needles. Yes, I remember acupuncture being a part of it in her case. Too bad I no longer have to book, but I know she found it annoying enough to go to a meditation master to get it under control. He told her it was her chi. > I don't know how she views it all > now. It may well be that this 'release' can occur at different levels > or rates, hence the differences in people's experiences with this. > Also differences in people's physiology, mental state, belief system, > and whatever else at the time may also be a factor in this as well. Definitely. > I am not trying to diminish the negative impact of yours and others > experiences in any way, as I am sure that must have been a hellish > time for you. I am merely pointing out an apparent relationship I have > noticed with people who have had similar experiences with feeling > 'energy' flowing in their body or 'kundalini release' type experiences > and a tendancy towards having spontaneous OBE's and lucid dreams. There's an obvious sampling problem here, though. If we hang out with and read accounts by lucid dreamers and OBE'rs, a number of whom have had these sensations or powerful energy, it could look like there's a more important connection than there really is. We would need to look for people who *don't* have LDs yet still have had experiences like these to get a broader picture. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-A5+tt9jAX5y048gAE5pBAgzv0NpswvxKhqC3J9cBDAPlkuVHSSe Lines: 33 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:33:35 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-kyVPBwzy+Ey8G3wL7zOVtJA1V1x9AscU0ITI7SF7NIsy3hugRzGqmibc42MJq4A1IH9d6AO8Al03Wqs!TSLfHtBGx7F7GRuARW2jNb66bWOFpymL7KdFALncJaFh95bre6SIyPjwsc7qtFnePigQP7aouktm!nGVpWbuP0147G0YYsyz6kA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:33:35 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!feeder.qis.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73053 In article , aardema@videotron.ca says... > > > I heard some loud and clear New Age profundities, such as: > > > > > > "Your first concern is death. To die, is to live." > > > > > > "Emotions cradle the power of being, to be disclosed." > > > > > > "Integrating pain for harmonious holistic growth." > > > > > > "Get rid of the devil, Janice." > > > > How about this one? > > 'Leprechauns who don't steal gold think they're crazy too" That's more in keeping with the kinds of silly lines I heard before I cracked up, like "He who sells ideas makes good glassware." :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <9rdlam$r9m$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-1K798OHxCs3tGBNKHDSheIT6k+s2OO/Yj9a+KPN8QBUwA2P+kLw Lines: 51 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:40:06 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-41Qe2onAEQANS3Kl8QfQ+2c1zBF94zYLgF3vo+LkBQScQXxKjJzh8Bu3RBvunXN7T4wbGp3Pj4TedDO!6ebPFE/ShxmDNQ1iQoh278N8EcEkLNd0VIh4yaPYmbIRVVirSKjqQCjH4/N24WnEY6ejgWC+tqSu!wQzgbNRQ2/MTX8pCV03GYg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:40:06 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!news-east.rr.com!cyclone.kc.rr.com!news.kc.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73049 In article , sculpt@privatei.com says... > > Bart wrote in message > news:9rdlam$r9m$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net... > > Ken - you know there are various "states of consciousness". This > situation > > is not "knowledge" - it is a "state". Jesus' last name was not "Christ" > ;-) > > "Christ" is a term for a state of consciousness. (You know all this, of > > course - I'm just playing. But my writing is also for the benefit of > > others.) > > Actually, I didn't know this. You would think this would be something they > would teach you in religious studies. Maybe I was out that day. I think the idea of "Christ consciousness" is heretical from the persepctive of most Christian theologians, but you can read about that take on it elsewhere. I remember reading a book one time called _The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ_ which IIRC came from that perspective. I should try to dig out the paper I wrote about it in college. > > However, I do believe that Jesus developed this "state". There are > > writings, separate from the Bible, that suggest he received training from > > those involved with esoteric teachings. As mentioned in another post, the > > Sufis make claim to his development. I cannot confirm this, but I cannot > > deny that his expressions fall in line with the Sufi writings. > > He must have surprised his teachers. :) Sufi writings by definition could > have changed to take Jesus into account. Just guessing here of course, I > don't know enough about it. Sufis even claim that Eleanor of Aquitaine and Richard the Lion-Hearted were Sufi-influenced, so it's reasonable to take their claims with a grain of salt. :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-WXE7RdBK3rBhck1+SU0CglTTz7o5t2BmyfM1u4BpbLoBXBxw1E0 Lines: 34 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 11:47:27 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-DptMYzSqDuOe53xDMU6SRV4U2iTkNSkntkQlTKmds8j1Jf69UWg2NDCsfXmMZt2NR7ZmIYGVogiL0wL!1u7bvcLEDK4b1ONqYzvqzobGleXhRsjrXp0homioqyA8xoKpqI6hNvEpDxdcXpGEPXhUK1dV94nW!KQB7QPFC6PCGEQ2WuQa0DQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:47:27 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73054 In article <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org says... > >I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as > >'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in > >Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want > >to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of > >the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter > >how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. > > > > PZ? If PZ knows a medical explanation for a feeling of a tremendous electrical current surging throughout your body all day long for days on end, leaving a residual sensation of currents running up and down your spine and leaving your nervous system feeling fried for months, and commonly coupled with extreme emotions and psychotic delusions, I'd be delighted to hear it. I've been looking for one for nine years now that's a little more specific than "a chemical imbalance." -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: 28 Oct 2001 10:40:59 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 22 Message-ID: <9rhjfr02rtg@drn.newsguy.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-548.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.90 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73060 In message-id , Janice wrote: > >In article <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org >says... > >> >I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as >> >'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in >> >Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want >> >to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of >> >the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter >> >how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. >> > >> >> PZ? I was referring to Ian's PZ-esque tone of voice in the above--Ian's usually such a mild- mannered chap. ;) -- Sherilyn|NOTE: The real Sherilyn has nothing against anonymous remailers, but she does not use them. http://www.sherilyn.org.uk/ The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send me unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail. ###### From: none@nospam.com (ao) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bdc44fe.17474159@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda9320.3926081@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdad694.967084@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdaedeb.954020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdbf3d7.442969@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 116 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 18:49:47 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.92.85.102 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1004295011 65.92.85.102 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 13:50:11 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 13:50:11 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73081 On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:30:44 GMT, Janice wrote: >In article <3bdbf3d7.442969@news1.qc.sympatico.ca>, none@nospam.com >says... >> Heh, interesting how we both came to a completely different conclusion >> about what this book was about! The book was called Pathway To >> Ecstacy, not Pathway To Problems. :-) > >She would not be the first person I've seen romanticize her problems. I guess the point I was trying to make was that I don't remember her describing having any notable problems at all, but rather described it as being exhilarating and liberating. >> As I remember it, Patricria put >> forth the hypothesis that her lucid dreams were actually being caused >> by the flowing of this energy up her spine. Likewise for myself, my >> OBE's and lucid dreams started occurring around the time I began to >> feel this 'energy' starting to flow quite strongly through my body in >> the sleep state. It was such a prominent sensation that it would often >> make me become fully aware in the sleep state. Just prior to these >> experiences starting, I went for several days feeling as if the floor >> and ground was shaking somewhat when I walked around outside or in >> buildings. Upon closer examination I realized it was a sensation >> inside me that was causing this feeling. I don't think it was a >> coincidence that my lucid dreams and OBE's, and strong feelings of >> energy flowing through me in the sleep state, started occurring >> shortly after this experience. My suggestion is that it was this >> 'subtle energy' flowing in my body that brought on these experiences. >> That is how it felt to me anyway. > >Perhaps the strange sensation kept you more alert than usual, making it >easier to be lucid in your dreams, or was related to an excess of >aminergic compounds which would make it be easier to be lucid since those >compounds are important for a number of the functions of consciousness >(think of how caffeine fosters wakefulness but in large doses can cause a >"buzz" and shakes). So there could well be a connection between the >energy sensation on the lucid dreams without the energy directly causing >the lucid dreams. Many lucid dreamers don't have any energy sensations, >or only have them at the start of OBEs and WILDs and not all day long, as >I'm sure you know. Right, I'm not suggesting that this is the root cause of all lucid dreams or OBE's, just that there seems to be a possible relationship to people who have these types of experiences and the commencing of or an increase in OBE's and/or lucid dreams. Just an observation really. I'm suggesting that at least in some cases these types of experiences may act as some sort of catalyst or at least have some direct relation to lucid dreaming occurances and OBE's. >> >It may well not be a coincidence that a number of LD'rs have had this >> >kind of thing happen, even from a strictly materialist point of view, >> >since it's possible that excessive lucid dreaming, or indulgence in >> >certain lucid dreaming induction techniques, can alter our neurochemical >> >balance and thereby perhaps make us prone to problems. Alas, not even >> >for the sake of science would I try to bring on that hellish state again >> >so this possibility could be explored. :) >> >> Well just to keep things in perspective here, not everyone has >> negative experiences from these types of experiences. > >I'm aware of that. I've even see a couple of people report no >psychological effects at all in association with it. But it would likely >be negative again for me, so I'm not about to try to replicate it. I hope I wasn't giving the impression that you or anyone else do try experimenting with bringing on more kundalini type experiences. I think there is a lot of misinformation out there about what kundalini is and how it works, so it would be difficult to make informed decsions about what is and is not a safe route to go. I think there are less risky routes to take than this. >> My experiences >> with this 'energy' have always been relatively moderate, with no >> negative impact on my mental state whatsoever, (perhaps that's >> debatable :-) ). I believe that was the same for Patricia Garfiled as >> well, at least what she described in her book. As I remember, she only >> reported having a few minor physical problems caused by her own >> improper use of acupuncture needles. > >Yes, I remember acupuncture being a part of it in her case. Too bad I no >longer have to book, but I know she found it annoying enough to go to a >meditation master to get it under control. He told her it was her chi. I don't know if she described it as annoying, but I think she wanted to get a better understanding of what was going on. >> I am not trying to diminish the negative impact of yours and others >> experiences in any way, as I am sure that must have been a hellish >> time for you. I am merely pointing out an apparent relationship I have >> noticed with people who have had similar experiences with feeling >> 'energy' flowing in their body or 'kundalini release' type experiences >> and a tendancy towards having spontaneous OBE's and lucid dreams. > >There's an obvious sampling problem here, though. If we hang out with >and read accounts by lucid dreamers and OBE'rs, a number of whom have had >these sensations or powerful energy, it could look like there's a more >important connection than there really is. We would need to look for >people who *don't* have LDs yet still have had experiences like these to >get a broader picture. This is true, but OTOH, in all my travels I have never come across anyone else who have had the experiences that you and some others have described here, yet several people have come forward to describe having these experiences in this thread. As we know, several of these people are no strangers to lucid dreams and OBE's. I think it is something worth considering at least as there may be some sort of relationship there. Did your kundalini-like experiences precede your starting to have lucid dreams/OBE's or did this occur later? /ao May all your thoughts be good ones... ###### From: none@nospam.com (ao) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bdc5edf.24100590@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda9320.3926081@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdad694.967084@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdaedeb.954020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdbf3d7.442969@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 10 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:44:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.92.85.102 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1004298269 65.92.85.102 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:44:29 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:44:29 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73083 Just as a little side note, I just discovered Patricia Garfield has her own website at: http://www.patriciagarfield.com/ There is an interview with her from "Electric Dreams" done in June 2001 regarding her latest book at: http://www.patriciagarfield.com/idx_library_electric_dreams_interview.htm /ao ###### From: David Mitchell Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:52:06 +0000 Organization: Paradise Computer Software Message-ID: <1004295367.2294.0.nnrp-07.c2de2739@news.demon.co.uk> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bda6426.1757405@news.ntlworld.com> <1004255023.11340.0.nnrp-01.c2de2739@news.demon.co.uk> <3bdc3bbc.21094749@news.ntlworld.com> Reply-To: david@edenroad.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: edenroad.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: edenroad.demon.co.uk:194.222.39.57 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1004295367 nnrp-07:2294 NO-IDENT edenroad.demon.co.uk:194.222.39.57 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net User-Agent: KNode/0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Lines: 39 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!btnet-peer1!btnet-peer0!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!edenroad.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73136 Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:29:54 +0000, David Mitchell > wrote: > >>Uh, Julia, there have only been what we might recognise as humans for >>about 200,000 years. > > Whatever have you been reading? Richard Leakey's book 'The origin of > Humankind' dates the African oriin of bipedalism to betwen 10 and 5 > million years ago. The earliest evidence of brain expansion and of > making stone tools coincide at 2.5 million years ago. There was a > major advance in the manufacture of tools (Achulean period) 1.5 > million years ago. Evidence of meat eating was strong 1 million years > ago (something not generally associated with great apes.).The first > use of fire was dated to 700,000 BC. You are probably referring to the > Mousterian period 200,000 years ago, in which there was another major > advance in tool manufacture. The origin of modern humans in Africa was > dated to the same period, but is now being pushed back > dramatically.There is plenty of evidence for communal and co-operative > existence for much longer ago than that. Obviously, dates are > approximate > I'm thinking of the mitochondrial DNA studies; but, to be honest, it's not something I bothered remembering in detail (I've reached the age when every time I learn something new I have to forget something I already knew - so I tend to concentrate on the highlights :-). I'll see if I can find the particular "New Scientist" magazine which featured the research - but I think I threw them all out when I moved. I'll let you know if I turn it up. -- ======================================================================= = David - Visit www.thehungersite.com = Mitchell - Feed someone for nothing ======================================================================= ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <9rdbqn$ng4$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 35 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:07:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.85 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1004299629 208.26.165.85 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 12:07:09 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 12:07:09 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73105 "The Original Ken" wrote in message news:dgQC7.184$j14.6598@wormhole.dimensional.com... > > Bart wrote in message > news:9rdbqn$ng4$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net... > > > > The Original Ken wrote in message ... > > > > > >Bart wrote in message > > > > >> "Through me flows the Word of God" was another phrase that kept getting > > >> repeated. I was convinced this was The Second Coming of Christ. > > > > > >Do you suspect that the popular author that wrote the books > "Conversations > > >with God" was having a similar experience, or drug related, or bogus? > > > > > > Never read the books. It wouldn't surprise me that the author had a > similar > > experience. > > It's an interesting series. It became a best seller almost overnight (no > doubt because of the title). Our library even carries the first book of the > series so I checked it out. I was surprised by some of it, but it may also > have been no more than just an accurate reflection of current popular > western beliefs about God. I've asked a friend who used to know the author 'back when'; I'll let you know what she says. ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Organization: Happy Noodle Boy! References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <9rhjfr02rtg@drn.newsguy.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) Reply-To: myers@mac.invalid X-Face: "w/5:'{b21!-UbG8:}Tk?P%!\!n(cgznyt]sJL5N2_2bsRhGTRJ%UX!Wx%GgGA.Ri]*PQJB>y%sHxmrIRlVPU/3\@JI8H}KHLQbbzA)1j,*4mxqqt\}[L"XpE1\C7xg2mJH]NelCKASP;xvO'}"W(8y+kf,EyaeHk"h.DUlJ-L%p+jk|E1i0V>_$(5nnx,'GnM^%Sd0V Message-ID: Lines: 26 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:23:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.116.133 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1004300598 206.146.116.133 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:23:18 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:23:18 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73073 In article <9rhjfr02rtg@drn.newsguy.com>, Sherilyn wrote: > In message-id , Janice wrote: > > > >In article <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org > >says... > > > >> >I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as > >> >'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in > >> >Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want > >> >to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of > >> >the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter > >> >how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. > >> > > >> > >> PZ? > I was referring to Ian's PZ-esque tone of voice in the above--Ian's usually > such > a mild- mannered chap. ;) What? And I'm not? -- pz ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Organization: Happy Noodle Boy! References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) Reply-To: myers@mac.invalid X-Face: "w/5:'{b21!-UbG8:}Tk?P%!\!n(cgznyt]sJL5N2_2bsRhGTRJ%UX!Wx%GgGA.Ri]*PQJB>y%sHxmrIRlVPU/3\@JI8H}KHLQbbzA)1j,*4mxqqt\}[L"XpE1\C7xg2mJH]NelCKASP;xvO'}"W(8y+kf,EyaeHk"h.DUlJ-L%p+jk|E1i0V>_$(5nnx,'GnM^%Sd0V Message-ID: Lines: 42 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:36:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.116.133 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1004301417 206.146.116.133 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:36:57 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:36:57 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73077 In article , Janice wrote: > In article <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org > says... > > > >I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as > > >'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in > > >Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want > > >to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of > > >the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter > > >how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. > > > > > > > PZ? > > If PZ knows a medical explanation for a feeling of a tremendous > electrical current surging throughout your body all day long for days on > end, leaving a residual sensation of currents running up and down your > spine and leaving your nervous system feeling fried for months, and > commonly coupled with extreme emotions and psychotic delusions, I'd be > delighted to hear it. I've been looking for one for nine years now > that's a little more specific than "a chemical imbalance." Ah, yes. This is Fester's Syndrome. You've probably got an electrical socket somewhere low to the ground in your house, and you regularly stub your toe on it, getting a potent jolt, which you promptly forget due to the effects of electroshock on short-term memory. There is an easy test: place an electric light bulb in your mouth. If it lights, you've got the syndrome. I don't know if there is a cure. There is a suite of other symptoms you can expect in the near future (corpulence and hair loss), but most afflicted individuals so relish the maniacal highs that they are not motivated to seek a solution. I recommend that you just pick up a case of dynamite at the hardware store and have fun. -- pz If it's any consolation, I've got a bad case of Gomez's Disease myself. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-puP5v0Ma3/M0O66AXrcC07GaBrB7kek7BuuoW2d+i2vGJqvY0RU Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:53:56 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-2z2YuiZlf09QZaE+a/ja3dC2Vr9neScM6UowFqZb2iYOAH1JTz4Aqc9pB5c70frMO6ZAzhxWNKWG8fJ!db1HYVy5IKFYgYr5VH0ewgNe5zpycIs1pG/mgIkS8C9MgKI5fwRtgs4sIdJE++Ptj+DEhS7X5Gom!v0WUfMZnA44e6vIAdJlgwg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:53:56 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73095 In article , sculpt@privatei.com says... > I think Jay's assessment, considering the length of time he spent studying > it, is reason enough for me not to pursue it any further. Just as a side, I > was listening to an interview with a Pakistani rock group called Janune(sp) > on a public radio station which was quite interesting since the lead player > talked a bit about Pakistani's feelings toward the US etc. but he also went > into Sufism and its relation to their music which I thought was quite > coincidental since I had just heard about Sufism here. There are Sufis and Sufis. What you read about one variety won't necessarily pertain to another variety. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <9rhjfr02rtg@drn.newsguy.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-6rI3/lRkgu9JiHxsNiZg1gkgy1HPzj6Ks0aW6zXLNib9ON4zMAt Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:56:28 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-4zDiqGGR2Ofq9wAg1i9T+hjTTXFk7CJCIjfoIuej74+VqLoyR7rZfItvUcogkjvff8NYNFIsvdrW57E!ROWtY/Wkm+9uhylRgoKeo7Dgm4NTlD7UFym7rmQIbeM9HHstptSM9AlSB+CHNJb3r40f9ZoyhDQM!yfiysHd0olO7WNK/bjbLGA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:56:28 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanjose!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73109 In article <9rhjfr02rtg@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org says... > I was referring to Ian's PZ-esque tone of voice in the above--Ian's usually such > a mild- mannered chap. ;) Oh, I see. Well, perhaps he's steeling himself psychologically for his visit to Castle Anthrax. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-H0dgltEsvlmFsk/5OnmQXHFbqgeaGb70hsWZcJAJt+AfXW71Rk4 Lines: 48 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:05:29 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-FqT+ELaMtcOh19VKjJQbs9XLEiuQGFqydg6mZIPT3wROXdF5j22Evq4SYimgbpSlQFe0h4TFJ9mcQ9s!kjPhMc47ZNq0g/fb13i3M/L4qb12cogzd7b98JvCV3aa+WsgQWqn1G5nwOmMKqYwXFJoNRDD2M5Q!dPcA/q1xdRTKATC4SRNIDw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:05:29 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.siscom.net!216.166.61.6.MISMATCH!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73118 In article , pzm@mac.com says... > In article , > Janice wrote: > > If PZ knows a medical explanation for a feeling of a tremendous > > electrical current surging throughout your body all day long for days on > > end, leaving a residual sensation of currents running up and down your > > spine and leaving your nervous system feeling fried for months, and > > commonly coupled with extreme emotions and psychotic delusions, I'd be > > delighted to hear it. I've been looking for one for nine years now > > that's a little more specific than "a chemical imbalance." > > Ah, yes. This is Fester's Syndrome. You've probably got an electrical > socket somewhere low to the ground in your house, and you regularly stub > your toe on it, getting a potent jolt, which you promptly forget due to > the effects of electroshock on short-term memory. > > There is an easy test: place an electric light bulb in your mouth. If it > lights, you've got the syndrome. > > I don't know if there is a cure. There is a suite of other symptoms you > can expect in the near future (corpulence and hair loss), but most > afflicted individuals so relish the maniacal highs that they are not > motivated to seek a solution. I recommend that you just pick up a case > of dynamite at the hardware store and have fun. Amusing, PZ, but not terribly illuminating. The mystics and shamans may have extraordinary explanations but at least they recognize the constellation of symptoms I suffered. > If it's any consolation, I've got a bad case of Gomez's Disease myself. You fall all over your wife saying "Cara Mia" a lot? -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Organization: Happy Noodle Boy! References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) Reply-To: myers@mac.invalid X-Face: "w/5:'{b21!-UbG8:}Tk?P%!\!n(cgznyt]sJL5N2_2bsRhGTRJ%UX!Wx%GgGA.Ri]*PQJB>y%sHxmrIRlVPU/3\@JI8H}KHLQbbzA)1j,*4mxqqt\}[L"XpE1\C7xg2mJH]NelCKASP;xvO'}"W(8y+kf,EyaeHk"h.DUlJ-L%p+jk|E1i0V>_$(5nnx,'GnM^%Sd0V Message-ID: Lines: 53 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:16:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.116.133 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1004303812 206.146.116.133 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:16:52 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:16:52 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73072 In article , Janice wrote: > In article , pzm@mac.com > says... > > In article , > > Janice wrote: > > > > If PZ knows a medical explanation for a feeling of a tremendous > > > electrical current surging throughout your body all day long for days on > > > end, leaving a residual sensation of currents running up and down your > > > spine and leaving your nervous system feeling fried for months, and > > > commonly coupled with extreme emotions and psychotic delusions, I'd be > > > delighted to hear it. I've been looking for one for nine years now > > > that's a little more specific than "a chemical imbalance." > > > > Ah, yes. This is Fester's Syndrome. You've probably got an electrical > > socket somewhere low to the ground in your house, and you regularly stub > > your toe on it, getting a potent jolt, which you promptly forget due to > > the effects of electroshock on short-term memory. > > > > There is an easy test: place an electric light bulb in your mouth. If it > > lights, you've got the syndrome. > > > > I don't know if there is a cure. There is a suite of other symptoms you > > can expect in the near future (corpulence and hair loss), but most > > afflicted individuals so relish the maniacal highs that they are not > > motivated to seek a solution. I recommend that you just pick up a case > > of dynamite at the hardware store and have fun. > > Amusing, PZ, but not terribly illuminating. The mystics and shamans may > have extraordinary explanations but at least they recognize the > constellation of symptoms I suffered. "Amusing" is all I can do here, sorry. I certainly can't add anything more to that vague diagnosis of a chemical imbalance, given to you by people much more qualified than I am. I wasn't trying to belittle the anguish that many people with mental illnesses experience. Don't compare me to shamans. You won't find me dispensing that kind of quackery -- no magical solutions here, I'm afraid. > > > If it's any consolation, I've got a bad case of Gomez's Disease myself. > > You fall all over your wife saying "Cara Mia" a lot? That, the fondness for cemeteries by moonlight, a certain kind of morbid flamboyance, and a couple of kids who have more than once noted the similarity between our lifestyle and that of the Addams Family. -- pz ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda9320.3926081@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdad694.967084@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdaedeb.954020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdbf3d7.442969@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdc44fe.17474159@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-gZeBIyfep1oxBjq0Wa3faMjTATNqem7NwCAdjhU7AGyZ5DMFCFE Lines: 72 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:31:42 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-oZcBjECLSViMzx+d76ki/1f78fSl2N/uGjC9EQg/k/SJyLGemirseZ/pRGPIDutXFu1UFSrqc1JuGfe!otJSkzb4xEseRGqKxg8A2GFCGoxnRIpvq+wwNehzPjVcvWniuHI+eU9fU43KIBVQZvmyXwnI88mV!Y/Av/VH5T/5AinK5m14vrw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:31:42 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!btnet-peer!btnet!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73100 In article <3bdc44fe.17474159@news1.qc.sympatico.ca>, none@nospam.com says... > I guess the point I was trying to make was that I don't remember her > describing having any notable problems at all, but rather described it > as being exhilarating and liberating. I guess we would have to find a copy of the book to reconcile the discrepancy between our memories. I don't have it anymore because I had borrowed it from a library. > Right, I'm not suggesting that this is the root cause of all lucid > dreams or OBE's, just that there seems to be a possible relationship > to people who have these types of experiences and the commencing of or > an increase in OBE's and/or lucid dreams. Just an observation really. > I'm suggesting that at least in some cases these types of experiences > may act as some sort of catalyst or at least have some direct relation > to lucid dreaming occurances and OBE's. Or an indirect one such as the two possibilities I suggested. > >Yes, I remember acupuncture being a part of it in her case. Too bad I no > >longer have to book, but I know she found it annoying enough to go to a > >meditation master to get it under control. He told her it was her chi. > > I don't know if she described it as annoying, but I think she wanted > to get a better understanding of what was going on. "Uncontrollable" may be more accurate than "annoying" since she may have been weird enough to think it was cool. ;-) Does anyone have a copy of _Pathway to Ecstasy_ so we can resolve this? The relevant pages are 173- 182 of the trade paperback (I know because I made a footnote to them when I dicussed Garfield's experience in my book). > This is true, but OTOH, in all my travels I have never come across > anyone else who have had the experiences that you and some others have > described here, yet several people have come forward to describe > having these experiences in this thread. As we know, several of these > people are no strangers to lucid dreams and OBE's. Well, of course. The thread was posted in alt.dreams.lucid and alt.out- of-body so the people responding to it with accounts of similar experiences have a high likelihood of being lucid dreamers and OBE'rs. > I think it is > something worth considering at least as there may be some sort of > relationship there. Sure. > Did your kundalini-like experiences precede your starting to have > lucid dreams/OBE's or did this occur later? I started having LDs at around 7 and OBEs (or more accurately partial OBEs much like Lorene's) at 13. I became intensely involved with them both at 21 and didn't have the kundalini thing until I was 29, so it came long afterwards. It was not accompanied by any perceptible increase in LD frequency either. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: 28 Oct 2001 13:31:43 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 35 Message-ID: <9rhtfv0fsk@drn.newsguy.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <9rhjfr02rtg@drn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-555.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.90 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73058 In message-id , pz wrote: > >In article <9rhjfr02rtg@drn.newsguy.com>, > Sherilyn wrote: > >> In message-id , Janice wrote: >> > >> >In article <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org >> >says... >> > >> >> >I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as >> >> >'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in >> >> >Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want >> >> >to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of >> >> >the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter >> >> >how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. >> >> > >> >> >> >> PZ? >> I was referring to Ian's PZ-esque tone of voice in the above--Ian's usually >> such >> a mild- mannered chap. ;) > > >What? And I'm not? Well, less mild-mannered than Ian normally is. A certain edge of sarcasm seems to have entered Ian's side of the dialog at this point. I guess I'll have to read the whole thread now to see what it is that has twitched his antenna. -- Sherilyn|NOTE: The real Sherilyn has nothing against anonymous remailers, but she does not use them. http://www.sherilyn.org.uk/ The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send me unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail. ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:32:56 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-6-97-73.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 28 Oct 2001 21:29:12 GMT, host62-6-97-73.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 76 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!195.129.110.19.MISMATCH!bnewspeer01.bru.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!newsfeed.online.be!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host62-6-97-73.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73111 In article <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca>, none@nospam.com says... > On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 19:19:51 +0100, Ian H Spedding > wrote: > >In article <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > >moore@ntlworld.com says... > >> Yes, thought is power and event. On the Astral, the power of thought > >> shapes reality, and people meet teletubbies and cartoon rabbits. In > >> the UnderWorld, thought as Intent is what gets the job done and the > >> visitors back out of there. On the Upper World, thought is analysed > >> for its integrity and virtue. The Middle World replicates reality but > >> without the factor of Time. These many worlds are all jolly strange > >> places. including the one we spend most of our waking time in! > > > >Before you vanish completely in a puff of infinite possibilities, I > >would suggest that the poor people in the World Trade Center > >understood that reality was rather more than a personal fantasy. > > > >I have no doubt that they wished that they were elsewhere or prayed to > >their God to save them, but they were not miraculously transported to > >safety nor did the Hand of God reach down to pluck them out of harm's > >way. > > > >Instead, reality, in the form of a 60-tonne airliner travelling at > >400-500mph plunged into the building and, in an instant, smashed them > >to pieces. > > > >I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as > >'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in > >Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want > >to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of > >the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter > >how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. > > Hi Ian, I don't think Julia was trying to persuade you of anything. > I'm not sure where you got that idea! She was just expressing her > point of view on this topic. You may feel this discussion is a bunch > of nonsense, but others who have experienced such things may feel a > need to try to understand them. One way to do so is to share our ideas > and views on what is going on in these experiences. We each may use > our own terminology and impose our own unique interpretations on our > experiences, but hopefully some of us are gaining further insights > into these types of experiences because of it. I find it it > interesting anyway. :-) I accept that people are reporting a similar experience which is, in itself, interesting. What I find difficult to accept are the complex and fantastic explanations which are built on such a narrow base. At least, I find it hard to accept that they have any basis in reality. We have contemporary examples, such as my own favourite Star Trek, where something begins as an idea in the mind of one man and evolves into a vast but entirely fictional culture, complete with its own technology and even languages. In Scientology we have a wealthy and powerful 'religion' grown from the fantasies of a third-rate science-fiction writer. I can appreciate people wanting to discuss these experiences with others who have known the same but surely the reason for doing so is to try and learn about them - to understand what is happening. Is it really likely that a greater understanding can be derived from ancient mythologies that were constructed by people who knew far less about how the Universe works than we do? Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:32:59 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-6-97-73.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 28 Oct 2001 21:29:15 GMT, host62-6-97-73.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 40 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.dtag.de!unlisys!news.snafu.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host62-6-97-73.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73091 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article , > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > > I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as > > 'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in > > Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want > > to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of > > the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter > > how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. > > I don't think anyone's interested in persuading you, Ian. I couldn't > even persuade you of any psychophysiological explanation for the > "kundalini" phenomenon because my understanding of what that might be is > far too vague. I don't suppose they do but people are asserting personal philosophical and religious beliefs as fact and therein lies the danger, as I wrote earlier. Who was it who said that if you proclaim a lie loud enough and often enough people will come to believe it? By all means discuss this so-called "kundalini phenomenon" but at least try to do so on the basis of what we have learnt so far about the way the Universe works. The fact that there is no satisfactory scientific explanation as yet is a gap in our understanding that does not necessarily require a God to fill it. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:33:03 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-6-97-73.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 28 Oct 2001 21:29:19 GMT, host62-6-97-73.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 40 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.dtag.de!news.netcologne.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host62-6-97-73.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73084 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org > says... > > > >I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as > > >'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in > > >Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want > > >to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of > > >the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter > > >how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. > > > > > > > PZ? > > If PZ knows a medical explanation for a feeling of a tremendous > electrical current surging throughout your body all day long for days on > end, leaving a residual sensation of currents running up and down your > spine and leaving your nervous system feeling fried for months, and > commonly coupled with extreme emotions and psychotic delusions, I'd be > delighted to hear it. I've been looking for one for nine years now > that's a little more specific than "a chemical imbalance." It sounds as if you are using the analogy of electricity because it is the closest experience to the one that people are describing, although I assume that nobody is arguing that powerful electric currents are actually circulating round the body during these events. Mind you, if they are, that is at least a claim that could actually be put to the test. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:33:06 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <9rhjfr02rtg@drn.newsguy.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-6-97-73.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 28 Oct 2001 21:29:24 GMT, host62-6-97-73.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host62-6-97-73.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73085 In article <9rhjfr02rtg@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org says... > In message-id , Janice wrote: > > > >In article <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org > >says... > > > >> >I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as > >> >'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in > >> >Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want > >> >to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of > >> >the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter > >> >how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. > >> > > >> > >> PZ? > I was referring to Ian's PZ-esque tone of voice in the above--Ian's usually such > a mild- mannered chap. ;) PZ-esque? Moi? "Oh, infamy, infamy! They've all got it in for me!" Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bda6426.1757405@news.ntlworld.com> <1004255023.11340.0.nnrp-01.c2de2739@news.demon.co.uk> <3bdc3bbc.21094749@news.ntlworld.com> <1004295367.2294.0.nnrp-07.c2de2739@news.demon.co.uk> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-VqbFkeYBzuKaGUELSwrXOMrnzMaX5uqSi0x2wO2J6abRtQOuM08 Lines: 51 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:35:54 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-7M3lPWLJp2sn7OUixOqKVEckX4MflEwAJgN+UzZLKQIzUAtIptQ+4F2RfYZ+izfxW0sVp5X/DeJ+YAN!C5ZYjU2aXBtoTNOmIOPsvocDjod7WKWlLQf97cKuVaIhvqPURQEi/ynzbpyvxitkaQpF4mwHFLvI!V5KjAxxUG8OVzD3sUQV1Eg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:35:54 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.uncensored-news.com!propagator-la!news-in-la.newsfeeds.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73101 In article <1004295367.2294.0.nnrp-07.c2de2739@news.demon.co.uk>, david@edenroad.demon.co.uk says... > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > > On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 11:29:54 +0000, David Mitchell > > wrote: > > > >>Uh, Julia, there have only been what we might recognise as humans for > >>about 200,000 years. > > > > Whatever have you been reading? Richard Leakey's book 'The origin of > > Humankind' dates the African oriin of bipedalism to betwen 10 and 5 > > million years ago. The earliest evidence of brain expansion and of > > making stone tools coincide at 2.5 million years ago. There was a > > major advance in the manufacture of tools (Achulean period) 1.5 > > million years ago. Evidence of meat eating was strong 1 million years > > ago (something not generally associated with great apes.).The first > > use of fire was dated to 700,000 BC. You are probably referring to the > > Mousterian period 200,000 years ago, in which there was another major > > advance in tool manufacture. The origin of modern humans in Africa was > > dated to the same period, but is now being pushed back > > dramatically.There is plenty of evidence for communal and co-operative > > existence for much longer ago than that. Obviously, dates are > > approximate > > I'm thinking of the mitochondrial DNA studies; but, to be honest, it's not > something I bothered remembering in detail (I've reached the age when every > time I learn something new I have to forget something I already knew - so I > tend to concentrate on the highlights :-). > > I'll see if I can find the particular "New Scientist" magazine which > featured the research - but I think I threw them all out when I moved. > I'll let you know if I turn it up. While I don't know where Julia is getting the figure of a million years BP for the origins of shamanism, it's certainly well within the range for the existence of the genus Homo as I learned it. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Organization: Happy Noodle Boy! References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <9rhjfr02rtg@drn.newsguy.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) Reply-To: myers@mac.invalid X-Face: "w/5:'{b21!-UbG8:}Tk?P%!\!n(cgznyt]sJL5N2_2bsRhGTRJ%UX!Wx%GgGA.Ri]*PQJB>y%sHxmrIRlVPU/3\@JI8H}KHLQbbzA)1j,*4mxqqt\}[L"XpE1\C7xg2mJH]NelCKASP;xvO'}"W(8y+kf,EyaeHk"h.DUlJ-L%p+jk|E1i0V>_$(5nnx,'GnM^%Sd0V Message-ID: Lines: 32 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:53:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.116.177 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1004305991 206.146.116.177 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:53:11 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:53:11 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73076 In article , Ian H Spedding wrote: > In article <9rhjfr02rtg@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org > says... > > In message-id , Janice wrote: > > > > > >In article <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org > > >says... > > > > > >> >I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as > > >> >'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in > > >> >Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want > > >> >to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of > > >> >the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter > > >> >how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. > > >> > > > >> > > >> PZ? > > I was referring to Ian's PZ-esque tone of voice in the above--Ian's usually > > such > > a mild- mannered chap. ;) > > PZ-esque? Moi? > > "Oh, infamy, infamy! They've all got it in for me!" No, no. I definitely think you were being flattered. To an undeserved degree, I should add, but tastes do vary. -- pz ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd90d14.1487721@news.ntlworld.com> <3bd9df0f.866591@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 40 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <2o%C7.31$gz3.54934@bcandid.telisphere.com> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 22:11:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.23 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1004307070 208.26.165.23 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:11:10 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:11:10 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73087 Ah, your reply finally came in on my reader. (I saw it on 'google' a couple of days ago....) "Julia Hawkes-Moore" wrote in message news:3bd9df0f.866591@news.ntlworld.com... > On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:20:47 GMT, "dorothy" > wrote: > >I did actually write to Kurt V. at the time but never heard back from him. > >Anyway, this was about 30 years ago, Julia. Why would someone who doesn't > >know me "have a message" for me? I "got" plenty from his books, I think. > > Fair enough! How rude of him not to write back. Not necessarily. Vonnegut was wildly popular in the late 60s and 70s and probably got tons and tons of mail. Mine probably got tossed by some office clerk. Wasn't it the son's > book which you related to, though? The same holds true for the son's book. I was greatly relieved to read that I could avoid future occurances by watching my diet, avoiding drugs, etc. > >Anyway, I certainly don't think that life is so structured that I'll "lose > >my path" if I don't follow up on every chance circumstance that occurs to > >me. I'd have pursued relationships with plenty of rock stars if that were > >the case. ;-) > > Coo! There is something mouthwateringly tempting about that particular > level of insanity... I was once handed a Concorde ticket to New York > with my name on it, but I handed it back. Now, if their next gig had > been in San Francisco... > Love from Julia > Julia Who's gig? You lost me there. ###### From: none@nospam.com (ao) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bdc7a72.2577518@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 27 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 22:12:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.92.69.98 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1004306770 65.92.69.98 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:06:10 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:06:10 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73078 On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:32:56 -0000, Ian H Spedding wrote: >I can appreciate people wanting to discuss these experiences with >others who have known the same but surely the reason for doing so is >to try and learn about them - to understand what is happening. That and just wanting to compare notes I would guess. >Is it really likely that a greater understanding can be derived from >ancient mythologies that were constructed by people who knew far less >about how the Universe works than we do? Hi Ian, you are perhaps just assuming that these are all "mythologies". Certain practices described in older writings can and often do bring on effects they indicate can occur, as people who have practiced various forms of traditional meditation can attest to. These effects can apparently occur whether one believes in, or is aware of, all the theories associated with them or not. As has been indicated in this thread, these effects can apparently occur spontaneously as well. Whether one is interested or not in some of the traditional theories that attempt to explain these experiences is a person's personal choice. There is a lot of misinformation about such topics out there IMO, so one should take any suggested explanations with a grain of salt of course, especially any suggestions coming from me. :-) /ao ###### From: none@nospam.com (ao) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bdc83d5.4979955@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda9320.3926081@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdad694.967084@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdaedeb.954020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdbf3d7.442969@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdc44fe.17474159@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 63 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 22:38:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.92.69.98 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1004308347 65.92.69.98 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:32:27 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:32:27 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!torn!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73079 On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:31:42 GMT, Janice wrote: >In article <3bdc44fe.17474159@news1.qc.sympatico.ca>, none@nospam.com >says... > >> I guess the point I was trying to make was that I don't remember her >> describing having any notable problems at all, but rather described it >> as being exhilarating and liberating. > >I guess we would have to find a copy of the book to reconcile the >discrepancy between our memories. I don't have it anymore because I had >borrowed it from a library. > >> Right, I'm not suggesting that this is the root cause of all lucid >> dreams or OBE's, just that there seems to be a possible relationship >> to people who have these types of experiences and the commencing of or >> an increase in OBE's and/or lucid dreams. Just an observation really. >> I'm suggesting that at least in some cases these types of experiences >> may act as some sort of catalyst or at least have some direct relation >> to lucid dreaming occurances and OBE's. > >Or an indirect one such as the two possibilities I suggested. > >> >Yes, I remember acupuncture being a part of it in her case. Too bad I no >> >longer have to book, but I know she found it annoying enough to go to a >> >meditation master to get it under control. He told her it was her chi. >> >> I don't know if she described it as annoying, but I think she wanted >> to get a better understanding of what was going on. > >"Uncontrollable" may be more accurate than "annoying" since she may have >been weird enough to think it was cool. ;-) Does anyone have a copy of >_Pathway to Ecstasy_ so we can resolve this? The relevant pages are 173- >182 of the trade paperback (I know because I made a footnote to them when >I dicussed Garfield's experience in my book). Well, spontaneous anyway. :-) It's been quite a while since I read the book so I will readily admit that my memories of this are probably not completely accurate, especially knowing my memory. It seems she hasn't pursued this much in her later writings from what I have been able to gather from browsing through her website. Maybe her experiences with this subsided after a while as they seem to have with several others here. Her later writings seem somewhat more concerned with more traditional dream studies. >> Did your kundalini-like experiences precede your starting to have >> lucid dreams/OBE's or did this occur later? > >I started having LDs at around 7 and OBEs (or more accurately partial >OBEs much like Lorene's) at 13. I became intensely involved with them >both at 21 and didn't have the kundalini thing until I was 29, so it came >long afterwards. It was not accompanied by any perceptible increase in >LD frequency either. Well that's certainly worth noting then. It doesn't mean that there is not a relation between the two though, just that one does not have to precede the other. There may be a lot of other unknown factors which could play in bringing this on of course, some of which many people may have completely forgotten about or never noticed, so I guess it would be pretty hard to nail down any direct cause and effects based on brief descriptions of things that may have happened many years ago. /ao ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-JOv0Azm/gwM6fQR9noquzsx6TiCgN0sCUa9tJUjnfDJ50DsTCzz Lines: 55 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:04:18 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-XflT6ZUZITPhkThYluDPr46d72g50ztMwFXNOxSrJiA9P57IwVU9qs5Fl3Bp06VkTww87J705syPYPo!G6HxmfloYX5ewge917CjqtkNPEYEoUBosOsMoqpppL9Tv88FxQCNEcRtwTXQeJofLSIZIulq/ypw!33Uln+2IJMgr9Z6k3VIrzw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 23:04:19 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73128 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > I accept that people are reporting a similar experience which is, in > itself, interesting. What I find difficult to accept are the complex > and fantastic explanations which are built on such a narrow base. > At least, I find it hard to accept that they have any basis in reality. The experience itself is fantastical enough! Cutting through the added layers of interpretation, as I'm sure you've tried to do, do you have any insights, Ian, about the baseline experience? Have you come across any mention of sensations of powerful electrical currents in your reading about depression? ... > I can appreciate people wanting to discuss these experiences with > others who have known the same but surely the reason for doing so is > to try and learn about them - to understand what is happening. I was especially interested to learn that Dorothy's incidence of this bizarre experience followed closely on spending several days without adequate sleep or food, like mine. That would lend some support to the chemical imbalance hypothesis, although one would be left wondering about the people who get this effect in other circumstances, particularly after mental exercises of different kinds. > Is it really likely that a greater understanding can be derived from > ancient mythologies that were constructed by people who knew far less > about how the Universe works than we do? A greater understanding of what's going on with this "kundalini" thing physiologically and psychologically isn't the only goal of reading about the explanations of ancient mythologies and contemporary shamans and mystics. Personally I find it comforting just to know that other people are and have been aware of this type of experience, even if some of their explanations are obviously unacceptable to science. Such explanations are interesting in their own right whether or not they have any basis in fact, if nothing else as illustrations of the creative human mind at work digesting strange goings on. But then, I'm an anthropologist and folklorist at heart and you're not. :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini From: spnak@petitmorte.net (jfred) Message-ID: <1f2024i.1fnaxqj1evso6jN%spnak@petitmorte.net> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> Organization: Finish your beer. There are sober people in China X-No-Archive: Yes X-Face: #&$Ojz_|WS+)nSdP,'%XcC(#:4v>|7k]yXb8q3Nw3MY~^U\NC[=R]3tPsV&\o ^4y4vPg&$$pMspY3V]R>-0VwHO?&mW)XF|p85XgW_k~ZfzS=(`V%8f2KajG\O>$bj3@L &S6Kpc*Hw8j%$ERU?2]9$4K|KrO2`\,DN Q\_P8O- User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4.5 Lines: 49 Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 23:06:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.252.181.57 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.tn.home.com 1004310369 24.252.181.57 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:06:09 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:06:09 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!feeder.via.net!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.tn.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73056 pz wrote: > In article , > Janice wrote: > > > In article <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org > > says... > > > > > >I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as > > > >'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in > > > >Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want > > > >to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of > > > >the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter > > > >how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. > > > > > > > > > > PZ? > > > > If PZ knows a medical explanation for a feeling of a tremendous > > electrical current surging throughout your body all day long for days on > > end, leaving a residual sensation of currents running up and down your > > spine and leaving your nervous system feeling fried for months, and > > commonly coupled with extreme emotions and psychotic delusions, I'd be > > delighted to hear it. I've been looking for one for nine years now > > that's a little more specific than "a chemical imbalance." Wow. I can only imagine the frustration. > Ah, yes. This is Fester's Syndrome. You've probably got an electrical > socket somewhere low to the ground in your house, and you regularly stub > your toe on it, getting a potent jolt, which you promptly forget due to > the effects of electroshock on short-term memory. > > There is an easy test: place an electric light bulb in your mouth. If it > lights, you've got the syndrome. > > I don't know if there is a cure. There is a suite of other symptoms you > can expect in the near future (corpulence and hair loss), but most > afflicted individuals so relish the maniacal highs that they are not > motivated to seek a solution. I recommend that you just pick up a case > of dynamite at the hardware store and have fun. Heh. Perhaps you spent the afternoon as I did, Uncle Fester... elbow deep in pumpkins? Happy Halloween, everyone. -- *jfred -- Habent Abdenda Omnes Praeter Me ac Simiam Meam* ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-oBmm5MQbX7ylXDXsqXiDO8b+TNmSLVQMq1Hw+YqOhstJOqwqhJL Lines: 49 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:23:50 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-HycdVQKf3r2KRgZAbY72Izwc+KnLCnguw8NvuE5g+m/TP6K+1/EtPuUi1FeulUlMWpiH6US12s0GHRv!Umjna792JNAv2M/I1nhoh76rApBX7H42pSvQ9HRrZ8mUCmvN7GO9pZi6zfkCKb6PWKmeorh5GnQs!dfJGUYfVfUwlWq9Q1ltxtg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 23:23:50 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!news2.euro.net!news-xfer.siscom.net!216.166.61.6.MISMATCH!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73117 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > In article , not-me@not- > here.net says... > > I don't think anyone's interested in persuading you, Ian. I couldn't > > even persuade you of any psychophysiological explanation for the > > "kundalini" phenomenon because my understanding of what that might be is > > far too vague. > > I don't suppose they do but people are asserting personal > philosophical and religious beliefs as fact and therein lies the > danger, as I wrote earlier. Who was it who said that if you proclaim > a lie loud enough and often enough people will come to believe it? > > By all means discuss this so-called "kundalini phenomenon" but at > least try to do so on the basis of what we have learnt so far about > the way the Universe works. Who are you calling "we," white man? ;-) People have the right to discuss things here however they wish, regardless of how you or I or anyone else might prefer them to go about it. Personally I've mentioned such vague scientific speculations regarding this stuff as I've been able to come up with, and done my best to describe the various psychotic thoughts and feelings I had at the time of my experience as just that, not as facts. > The fact that there is no satisfactory scientific explanation as yet > is a gap in our understanding that does not necessarily require a God > to fill it. I for one haven't put any gods or devils there (at least once on the far side of my psychosis!), and am still in search of a satisfactory scientific explanation. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: 28 Oct 2001 15:44:01 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 40 Message-ID: <9ri58101040@drn.newsguy.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <9rhjfr02rtg@drn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-222.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.90 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73057 In message-id , pz wrote: > >In article , > Ian H Spedding wrote: > >> In article <9rhjfr02rtg@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org >> says... >> > In message-id , Janice wrote: >> > > >> > >In article <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org >> > >says... >> > > >> > >> >I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as >> > >> >'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in >> > >> >Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want >> > >> >to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of >> > >> >the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter >> > >> >how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. >> > >> > >> > >> >> > >> PZ? >>> I was referring to Ian's PZ-esque tone of voice in the above--Ian's usually >> > such >> > a mild- mannered chap. ;) >> >> PZ-esque? Moi? >> >> "Oh, infamy, infamy! They've all got it in for me!" > >No, no. I definitely think you were being flattered. To an undeserved >degree, I should add, but tastes do vary. > Yes, I think it could be called flattery. It' s nice to see that Ian's skepticism has teeth. -- Sherilyn|NOTE: The real Sherilyn has nothing against anonymous remailers, but she does not use them. http://www.sherilyn.org.uk/ The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send me unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-9yDzVUnKb9DPLBHhm/1lFDizXT5axmc9n50ynuBmwk/yd8Ag4hA Lines: 54 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:44:01 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-gn5eJU/+O6yr+4BDiC36oC1Gmkg0y5Ib4qlxcUXEBMVfDR9RLnecZT980lBSPrKmf4OTwmxevyeUXt1!8Y9Pcu8lwiXo90NB32qqhzS5nyftOuxOr+Jm8XCtKY4CQllG04s2BW1As0lOb5yPP37zIbxifQm0!L7ZpDHhlkU5gHQnykTQUsQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 23:44:01 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73115 In article , pzm@mac.com says... > In article , > Janice wrote: > > Amusing, PZ, but not terribly illuminating. The mystics and shamans may > > have extraordinary explanations but at least they recognize the > > constellation of symptoms I suffered. > > "Amusing" is all I can do here, sorry. I certainly can't add anything > more to that vague diagnosis of a chemical imbalance, given to you by > people much more qualified than I am. Actually I came up with that vague diagnosis myself based on later reading. Unfortunately my knowledge of neurochemistry is very limited. > I wasn't trying to belittle the > anguish that many people with mental illnesses experience. I wasn't offended. I made an Uncle Fester joke recently myself when talking about this stuff with Jay. :) > Don't compare me to shamans. You won't find me dispensing that kind of > quackery -- no magical solutions here, I'm afraid. I'd prefer you to be honest about your ignorance than to make something up, of course. > > > If it's any consolation, I've got a bad case of Gomez's Disease myself. > > > > You fall all over your wife saying "Cara Mia" a lot? > > That, the fondness for cemeteries by moonlight, a certain kind of morbid > flamboyance, and a couple of kids who have more than once noted the > similarity between our lifestyle and that of the Addams Family. By the way, have any of your kids gotten into the books by "Lemony Snicket"? http://www.lemonysnicket.com/ -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-+fsMsx4k33iTS9K21OJZ3H5w9rpyv7pUWvaOxU5hVyjPq9ViSjW Lines: 46 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 18:03:43 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-GLFhzyaYu9e0qUbmnhtspB2VajDjNr4dPartqRJ0pP/Otb6Rhk6iwXoaG0F0wWy372htJ3kIbxuwasM!jnacj9HdCx9SMErlwym60hxxd3a977TkoylHQvxkUbeiiPzowLLuRTSpMJ9ZkVDQdN1F3KuFkLuz!lzxT/yXATcU1Gx3pm2YyGw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 00:03:43 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73126 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > In article , not-me@not- > here.net says... > > If PZ knows a medical explanation for a feeling of a tremendous > > electrical current surging throughout your body all day long for days on > > end, leaving a residual sensation of currents running up and down your > > spine and leaving your nervous system feeling fried for months, and > > commonly coupled with extreme emotions and psychotic delusions, I'd be > > delighted to hear it. I've been looking for one for nine years now > > that's a little more specific than "a chemical imbalance." > > It sounds as if you are using the analogy of electricity because it is > the closest experience to the one that people are describing, although > I assume that nobody is arguing that powerful electric currents are > actually circulating round the body during these events. Mind you, if > they are, that is at least a claim that could actually be put to the > test. I am calling it a *feeling* of an electrical current, because that is what it *felt* like. I am not calling it a literal electrical current (though of course the nervous system does function electrochemically). Some people do think of "kundalini" as an actual kind of energy, but I'm inclined to think that the nervous system may be oversensitized for some reason as an effect of these experiences and not necessarily more active. As I've mentioned, after what I went through no one is f*cking going to get me to try to replicate this experience so it can be tested. I did once talk to a man who said he had an EEG while in the midst of a "kundlini" crisis. Too his surprise nothing abnormal showed up. Of course an EEG may not have had the best test for the job. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini From: spnak@petitmorte.net (jfred) Message-ID: <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> Organization: Finish your beer. There are sober people in China X-No-Archive: Yes X-Face: #&$Ojz_|WS+)nSdP,'%XcC(#:4v>|7k]yXb8q3Nw3MY~^U\NC[=R]3tPsV&\o ^4y4vPg&$$pMspY3V]R>-0VwHO?&mW)XF|p85XgW_k~ZfzS=(`V%8f2KajG\O>$bj3@L &S6Kpc*Hw8j%$ERU?2]9$4K|KrO2`\,DN Q\_P8O- User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4.5 Lines: 59 Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 00:14:39 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.252.181.57 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.tn.home.com 1004314479 24.252.181.57 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 16:14:39 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 16:14:39 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.tn.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73145 lorz wrote: > "Janice" wrote in message > news:MPG.1643674de7f02191989d34@news.starlinx.com... > > In article <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com > > says... > > > > > > Janice wrote in message ... > > > > > > >Must be something not quite right about January ... :-) > > > > > > '80 > > > > Are you saying you're another January kundalini baby? > > > > > >You did the spontaneous yogic postures in addition to hearing radio > > > >messages? I read about the yoga thing just the other day, and was > > > >glad I hadn't had that particular bizarre symptom > > > > > > I have never heard of that one being common, but I definately had > > > something like it. My hand kept going up like I was about to bless > > > someone.... > :-\ > > > > "Saint Bart." Has a nice ring to it. :) > > > > You seem to have mixed feelings about your experience now. On the one > > hand you say it inspired your current beliefs, but on the other hand you > > think you reacted peculiarly at the time; is that about right? > > > > > "I am the Light." > > > > > > "I am the Truth - he beginning and the end of all reality." > > > > > > "I am Awareness. I live in all things and all things live in me." > > > > > > "No one goes to the Father except by me." > > > > You heard these phrases? Sounds like the voice was cribbing from the New > > Testament a bit. > > > > -- > > I wonder if that's what that Anne Heche was going through. All these sounds > famaliar with what she was going through and how she felt in her book. I'm > not promoting her book or anything but the things you all are saying ring a > bell in her experience. Although much of what she went through in her > childhood I believe is what led her to these feelings. Well, that and > prehaps drugs. I believe she was into E E? Ecstasy? Ellen? Elevators? > at the time which sort of gives you those type feelings as well. I may be > way off track here as I don't know much about Kundalini but has me > wondering...Hmmmm. -- *jfred -- Habent Abdenda Omnes Praeter Me ac Simiam Meam* ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda9320.3926081@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdad694.967084@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdaedeb.954020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdbf3d7.442969@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdc44fe.17474159@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdc83d5.4979955@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-4R230dIMQ6iSzZdCH8KEiMEFmfjv2M5l4EAcJnE2HTMqGCoGX/I Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 18:36:20 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-fCbBPlplAJyXWrRfxlP80Iltu3Nfa1SMOR1i+JFS+hl0BpEG2groO4Q+pciJalM2BFCK2OI/fEF6Hsp!oxkv+SYnJAZW2YUVdkkp7ZuLbPSXIaheNrNDJIqtaEdS/6zENeIb2iDVQtLTbOvhBIo3uODluGMN!gcOsZ6in9UcZbrMJFy2beA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 00:36:21 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73110 In article <3bdc83d5.4979955@news1.qc.sympatico.ca>, none@nospam.com says... > > Well that's certainly worth noting then. It doesn't mean that there is > not a relation between the two though, just that one does not have to > precede the other. There may be a lot of other unknown factors which > could play in bringing this on of course, some of which many people > may have completely forgotten about or never noticed, so I guess it > would be pretty hard to nail down any direct cause and effects based > on brief descriptions of things that may have happened many years ago. Yep! Certainly fascinating to talk about, though, at least now that I can talk about it sanely. :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-NCTH9ShD6oHijWdz9Pt1bY1M0jwmIyccs2eBq1MZhLQs3cHQWQa Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 18:37:32 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-zLilk31Hv/3sIQnzQGkv+p4igXURLmKODlb2X1l4H2WwpPyIGuLm2xmOsdTHbKiEbl1ea8agveisPs+!0jCZtdD8upgwLHlFBrauj7oR/2asmtXZqzbTgxhJUegw4EEIKXTIKDAKPXv3oWaN/KuGjUjRZ/RH!Gbe81H2YVxYkk0uhz2i2ng== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 00:37:32 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73114 In article <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net>, spnak@petitmorte.net says... > lorz wrote: > > > I believe she was into E > > E? Ecstasy? Ellen? Elevators? Elephants. It can only mean elephants. :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <9rdbqn$ng4$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 45 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: <%H1D7.200$j14.6928@wormhole.dimensional.com> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:50:55 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.4 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004316539 216.241.33.4 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:48:59 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:48:59 MST Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73112 dorothy wrote in message news:NzZC7.28$gz3.52746@bcandid.telisphere.com... > "The Original Ken" wrote in message > news:dgQC7.184$j14.6598@wormhole.dimensional.com... > > > > Bart wrote in message > > news:9rdbqn$ng4$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net... > > > > > > The Original Ken wrote in message ... > > > > > > > >Bart wrote in message > > > > > > >> "Through me flows the Word of God" was another phrase that kept > getting > > > >> repeated. I was convinced this was The Second Coming of Christ. > > > > > > > >Do you suspect that the popular author that wrote the books > > "Conversations > > > >with God" was having a similar experience, or drug related, or bogus? > > > > > > > > > Never read the books. It wouldn't surprise me that the author had a > > similar > > > experience. > > > > It's an interesting series. It became a best seller almost overnight (no > > doubt because of the title). Our library even carries the first book of > the > > series so I checked it out. I was surprised by some of it, but it may > also > > have been no more than just an accurate reflection of current popular > > western beliefs about God. > > I've asked a friend who used to know the author 'back when'; I'll let you > know what she says. Oh, absolutely. I'd be very interested in hearing what she says. Ken > > ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 00:59:16 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-6-66-139.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 29 Oct 2001 00:55:29 GMT, host62-6-66-139.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 85 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host62-6-66-139.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73106 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article , > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > > > I accept that people are reporting a similar experience which is, in > > itself, interesting. What I find difficult to accept are the complex > > and fantastic explanations which are built on such a narrow base. > > At least, I find it hard to accept that they have any basis in reality. > > The experience itself is fantastical enough! Cutting through the added > layers of interpretation, as I'm sure you've tried to do, do you have any > insights, Ian, about the baseline experience? Have you come across any > mention of sensations of powerful electrical currents in your reading > about depression? I don't have any penetrating insights to offer, I'm afraid. It isn't listed as part of the pathology of depression as far as I'm aware, although I suppose there could be a connection to bipolar disorder. It would be interesting to see if there is a strong association between this phenomenon and a predisposition to LD/OBEs. The only thing that occurs to me is that, as described, it sounds more like a phenomenon of sensation rather than mentation or, to use another analogy, partly like interference affecting radio reception. This idea of an upsurge of random 'noise' somewhere in the nervous system makes me wonder if the phenomenon is related to epilepsy. > > I can appreciate people wanting to discuss these experiences with > > others who have known the same but surely the reason for doing so is > > to try and learn about them - to understand what is happening. > > I was especially interested to learn that Dorothy's incidence of this > bizarre experience followed closely on spending several days without > adequate sleep or food, like mine. That would lend some support to the > chemical imbalance hypothesis, although one would be left wondering about > the people who get this effect in other circumstances, particularly after > mental exercises of different kinds. > > > Is it really likely that a greater understanding can be derived from > > ancient mythologies that were constructed by people who knew far less > > about how the Universe works than we do? > > A greater understanding of what's going on with this "kundalini" thing > physiologically and psychologically isn't the only goal of reading about > the explanations of ancient mythologies and contemporary shamans and > mystics. Personally I find it comforting just to know that other people > are and have been aware of this type of experience, even if some of their > explanations are obviously unacceptable to science. Such explanations > are interesting in their own right whether or not they have any basis in > fact, if nothing else as illustrations of the creative human mind at work > digesting strange goings on. But then, I'm an anthropologist and > folklorist at heart and you're not. :) I can understand that you find comfort in knowing that your experience is not unique and in sharing it with others, especially if it has caused you considerable suffering. I agree that the various mystical and mythological explanations are evidence of the exceptional fertility of human imagination. I have no problem with either of these points. If I'm honest, my reaction to this discussion is driven by two concerns. The first is that I find it very disquieting to hear religious, political and philosophical beliefs asserted as if they were fact. It isn't doubt which leads to terrorism and war but conviction. The second is, I suppose, reactionary in that I object to the presumption that folklore, folk mythologies and Eastern mysticism are intrinsically superior compared to what might loosely be called Western thought. This relates, of course, to the debate about the extent to which the US is responsible for what happened on 11 September as a result of the way it has dealt with other, particularly Muslim, countries. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 00:59:17 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-6-66-139.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 29 Oct 2001 00:55:34 GMT, host62-6-66-139.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 52 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!unlisys!news.snafu.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host62-6-66-139.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73094 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article , > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > In article , not-me@not- > > here.net says... > > > > I don't think anyone's interested in persuading you, Ian. I couldn't > > > even persuade you of any psychophysiological explanation for the > > > "kundalini" phenomenon because my understanding of what that might be is > > > far too vague. > > > > I don't suppose they do but people are asserting personal > > philosophical and religious beliefs as fact and therein lies the > > danger, as I wrote earlier. Who was it who said that if you proclaim > > a lie loud enough and often enough people will come to believe it? > > > > By all means discuss this so-called "kundalini phenomenon" but at > > least try to do so on the basis of what we have learnt so far about > > the way the Universe works. > > Who are you calling "we," white man? ;-) > > People have the right to discuss things here however they wish, > regardless of how you or I or anyone else might prefer them to go about > it. Personally I've mentioned such vague scientific speculations > regarding this stuff as I've been able to come up with, and done my best > to describe the various psychotic thoughts and feelings I had at the time > of my experience as just that, not as facts. > > > The fact that there is no satisfactory scientific explanation as yet > > is a gap in our understanding that does not necessarily require a God > > to fill it. > > I for one haven't put any gods or devils there (at least once on the far > side of my psychosis!), and am still in search of a satisfactory > scientific explanation. Yes, I know. I was trying to avoid personalities by phrasing my points in general terms but I am, of course, well aware that you are one of the 'good guys' - in a sceptical sense, at least. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 00:59:22 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-6-66-139.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 29 Oct 2001 00:55:36 GMT, host62-6-66-139.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 31 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host62-6-66-139.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73093 In article , pzm@mac.com says... > In article , > Janice wrote: > > > In article , pzm@mac.com > > says... [...] > > > If it's any consolation, I've got a bad case of Gomez's Disease myself. > > > > You fall all over your wife saying "Cara Mia" a lot? > > That, the fondness for cemeteries by moonlight, [...] That sounds more like that debilitating disorder which causes you to become overly serious - myerssenior graveis. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini From: spnak@petitmorte.net (jfred) Message-ID: <1f207r4.1ivvqyu1v4l6kgN%spnak@petitmorte.net> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net> Organization: Finish your beer. There are sober people in China X-No-Archive: Yes X-Face: #&$Ojz_|WS+)nSdP,'%XcC(#:4v>|7k]yXb8q3Nw3MY~^U\NC[=R]3tPsV&\o ^4y4vPg&$$pMspY3V]R>-0VwHO?&mW)XF|p85XgW_k~ZfzS=(`V%8f2KajG\O>$bj3@L &S6Kpc*Hw8j%$ERU?2]9$4K|KrO2`\,DN Q\_P8O- User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4.5 Lines: 16 Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 01:04:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.252.181.57 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.tn.home.com 1004317495 24.252.181.57 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:04:55 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 17:04:55 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.tn.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73055 Janice wrote: > In article <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net>, > spnak@petitmorte.net says... > > lorz wrote: > > > > > I believe she was into E > > > > E? Ecstasy? Ellen? Elevators? > > Elephants. It can only mean elephants. :) Pink? -- *jfred -- Habent Abdenda Omnes Praeter Me ac Simiam Meam* ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-WXE7RdBK3rBhck1+SU0CglTTz7o5t2BmyfM1u4BpbLoBXBxw1E0 Lines: 73 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:37:12 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-3xx5ee21L40mtQniK6M9MCf2jr3vRJWEiQfpo+yhZARU8fA3+Aakck3pwDHNT+nwz69hg8rj8r69EGy!KcqaCzDqhR6nlL5f2FT1J6EbZGJ8heKAsICABUsOkBSHVRuryUja4yZ9/xbxV4EARnDCu1NEDQws!nBJKrt/go+B6apW0iTg8QA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 01:37:12 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73120 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > In article , not-me@not- > here.net says... > > > > The experience itself is fantastical enough! Cutting through the added > > layers of interpretation, as I'm sure you've tried to do, do you have any > > insights, Ian, about the baseline experience? Have you come across any > > mention of sensations of powerful electrical currents in your reading > > about depression? > > I don't have any penetrating insights to offer, I'm afraid. It isn't > listed as part of the pathology of depression as far as I'm aware, > although I suppose there could be a connection to bipolar disorder. Or perhaps to anxiety neurosis. In my case extreme anxiety was part of the initial experience and a subsequent period of anxiety preceded and merged into the eventual depression. > It would be interesting to see if there is a strong association > between this phenomenon and a predisposition to LD/OBEs. Certainly. Now if only we had a broader database to work with than known lucid dreamers/OBE'rs ... > The only thing that occurs to me is that, as described, it sounds more > like a phenomenon of sensation rather than mentation or, to use > another analogy, partly like interference affecting radio reception. > This idea of an upsurge of random 'noise' somewhere in the nervous > system makes me wonder if the phenomenon is related to epilepsy. If so at least it didn't give me convulsions. :) ... > I can understand that you find comfort in knowing that your experience > is not unique and in sharing it with others, especially if it has > caused you considerable suffering. I agree that the various mystical > and mythological explanations are evidence of the exceptional > fertility of human imagination. I have no problem with either of > these points. > > If I'm honest, my reaction to this discussion is driven by two > concerns. The first is that I find it very disquieting to hear > religious, political and philosophical beliefs asserted as if they > were fact. Aren't you used to that by now? ;-) > It isn't doubt which leads to terrorism and war but > conviction. > > The second is, I suppose, reactionary in that I object to the > presumption that folklore, folk mythologies and Eastern mysticism are > intrinsically superior compared to what might loosely be called > Western thought. Well, any problem you may have on that score I'll leave to those who make that presumption. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net> <1f207r4.1ivvqyu1v4l6kgN%spnak@petitmorte.net> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-zwpR1zlSy2TmitaviEfSlliMEt46nlavqFoiXQtRuSiUysK3nrL Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 19:38:55 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-lMdm++GVEfG8JnU/bzBj7YLtR424mTlkHaAg+lg5Cq02oH40q3jdt1r0JliESFfTLiZWOSSm7R8445G!uclTe4tg9GmzoOFVBFJvjjzOhYTzLJm579FLRXnUjIxGNHdVjCUhgCXS5HrnaY6QvVzZuaU6BcwL!CHL2iTcQKY6mDH/tQh1haA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 01:38:55 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!208.184.7.66.MISMATCH!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73099 In article <1f207r4.1ivvqyu1v4l6kgN%spnak@petitmorte.net>, spnak@petitmorte.net says... > Janice wrote: > > > In article <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net>, > > spnak@petitmorte.net says... > > > lorz wrote: > > > > > > > I believe she was into E > > > > > > E? Ecstasy? Ellen? Elevators? > > > > Elephants. It can only mean elephants. :) > > Pink? Perhaps pink, but personally I suspect a chic lavender. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "Bart Scott" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 53 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:03:41 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:04:33 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73135 "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message news:MPG.16467f63dbf1c9ab9896d5@news.lineone.net... > I accept that people are reporting a similar experience which is, in > itself, interesting. Most of our bodies are similar. >What I find difficult to accept are the complex > and fantastic explanations which are built on such a narrow base. At > least, I find it hard to accept that they have any basis in reality. This is a thread on Kundalini. As I understand it, Kundalini is not something beyond "reality". It is a psycho/physiological situation that we have all described as a possible cause for certain types of insanity. > We have contemporary examples, such as my own favourite Star Trek, > where something begins as an idea in the mind of one man and evolves > into a vast but entirely fictional culture, complete with its own > technology and even languages. The Astral Plane is easy to access. A smile or a curse word from a stranger on the street can put you into an Astral journey in an instant. All "fictional" stories are capable of bringing individuals to a certain level of their own reality. People identify with, and collect around, those who explain things in a familiar way. The key word here is "familiar". We tend to stick around with those who speak in familiar terms. > In Scientology we have a wealthy and powerful 'religion' grown from > the fantasies of a third-rate science-fiction writer. Fiction writers are travellers. Every invention that has ever been materialized in the physical came from an internal experience. > I can appreciate people wanting to discuss these experiences with > others who have known the same but surely the reason for doing so is > to try and learn about them - to understand what is happening. Of course... > Is it really likely that a greater understanding can be derived from > ancient mythologies that were constructed by people who knew far less > about how the Universe works than we do? We know how much of the physical operates. We don't know it all - but we know quite a bit. That which we do not know is still part of the non-physical mentality. I, personally, would not be so quick to call it "ancient mythology". Bart ###### From: "Bart Scott" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 25 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:22:41 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:23:34 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73137 "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message news:MPG.164682b7afe001d09896d6@news.lineone.net... > By all means discuss this so-called "kundalini phenomenon" but at > least try to do so on the basis of what we have learnt so far about > the way the Universe works. > > The fact that there is no satisfactory scientific explanation as yet > is a gap in our understanding that does not necessarily require a God > to fill it. Physical life is based on a single organism. All our cells originate from a single cell. The mentality of humans focus back to the origin of a singular beginning. A single "God" is visualized. You are a valid point of view, Ian. But since we are all "God" looking at Itself from every possible point of view, you are only one point of view. There really is no valid scientific explanation for consciousness. All we know for sure is that there are many points of view. Bart ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Organization: Happy Noodle Boy! References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) Reply-To: myers@mac.invalid X-Face: "w/5:'{b21!-UbG8:}Tk?P%!\!n(cgznyt]sJL5N2_2bsRhGTRJ%UX!Wx%GgGA.Ri]*PQJB>y%sHxmrIRlVPU/3\@JI8H}KHLQbbzA)1j,*4mxqqt\}[L"XpE1\C7xg2mJH]NelCKASP;xvO'}"W(8y+kf,EyaeHk"h.DUlJ-L%p+jk|E1i0V>_$(5nnx,'GnM^%Sd0V Message-ID: Lines: 29 Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 02:30:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.116.165 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1004322655 206.146.116.165 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:30:55 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:30:55 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73075 In article , Ian H Spedding wrote: > In article , pzm@mac.com > says... > > In article , > > Janice wrote: > > > > > In article , pzm@mac.com > > > says... > > [...] > > > > > If it's any consolation, I've got a bad case of Gomez's Disease myself. > > > > > > You fall all over your wife saying "Cara Mia" a lot? > > > > That, the fondness for cemeteries by moonlight, > > [...] > > That sounds more like that debilitating disorder which causes you to > become overly serious - myerssenior graveis. You better hope there isn't an afterlife, 'cause your karma just took a major hit. -- pz ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 31 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:52:27 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.26 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004327431 216.241.33.26 (Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:50:31 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 20:50:31 MST Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73123 Janice wrote in message news:MPG.16465d83c4aea438989d5a@news.starlinx.com... > In article , > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > In article , not-me@not- > > here.net says... > > > > I don't think anyone's interested in persuading you, Ian. I couldn't > > > even persuade you of any psychophysiological explanation for the > > > "kundalini" phenomenon because my understanding of what that might be is > > > far too vague. > > > > I don't suppose they do but people are asserting personal > > philosophical and religious beliefs as fact and therein lies the > > danger, as I wrote earlier. Who was it who said that if you proclaim > > a lie loud enough and often enough people will come to believe it? > > > > By all means discuss this so-called "kundalini phenomenon" but at > > least try to do so on the basis of what we have learnt so far about > > the way the Universe works. > > Who are you calling "we," white man? ;-) Hahahaha!! I wish I had caught that one. Ken ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bdd1343.1423859@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd90d14.1487721@news.ntlworld.com> <3bd9df0f.866591@news.ntlworld.com> <2o%C7.31$gz3.54934@bcandid.telisphere.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 37 Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:30:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.16.71 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004358657 62.255.16.71 (Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:30:57 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:30:57 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!grolier!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73066 On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 22:11:10 GMT, "dorothy" wrote: >> Fair enough! How rude of him not to write back. > >Not necessarily. Vonnegut was wildly popular in the late 60s and 70s and >probably got tons and tons of mail. Mine probably got tossed by some office >clerk. ah, the perils of having staff... >Wasn't it the son's >> book which you related to, though? > >The same holds true for the son's book. I was greatly relieved to read that >I could avoid future occurances by watching my diet, avoiding drugs, etc. this was the time at which the 'secret' information began to filter through. >> >Anyway, I certainly don't think that life is so structured that I'll >"lose >> >my path" if I don't follow up on every chance circumstance that occurs to >> >me. I'd have pursued relationships with plenty of rock stars if that were >> >the case. ;-) >> >> Coo! There is something mouthwateringly tempting about that particular >> level of insanity... I was once handed a Concorde ticket to New York >> with my name on it, but I handed it back. Now, if their next gig had >> been in San Francisco... >> Love from Julia >> Julia > >Who's gig? You lost me there. oh, a band called Rockpile... two lovely guys called Dave Edmunds and Nick Lowe. Thye competed for my attention for a few agreeable hours. Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 53 Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:30:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.16.71 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004358659 62.255.16.71 (Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:30:59 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:30:59 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73074 On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:32:59 -0000, Ian H Spedding wrote: >> > I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as >> > 'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in >> > Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want >> > to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of >> > the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter >> > how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. I don't want to persuade you Ian, personally, of anything at all. But for the few people reading this who have a genuine interest in going out of body, I can offer relevant information. >> I don't think anyone's interested in persuading you, Ian. Oh now someone else agrees. Thank you. Why do you feel so threatened by ways of thinking which differ from the ones which you regurgitate? >I don't suppose they do but people are asserting personal >philosophical and religious beliefs as fact and therein lies the >danger, as I wrote earlier. Who was it who said that if you proclaim >a lie loud enough and often enough people will come to believe it? You seem to be asserting your own 'personal philosophic and religious beliefs ' pretty loudly here. Or don't your own rules apply to you? >By all means discuss this so-called "kundalini phenomenon" but at >least try to do so on the basis of what we have learnt so far about >the way the Universe works. "We" have learned? Or what 'you' have learned? Since I started going obe regularly I have learned a damn sight more about the way the universe works than you know. You may think you have all the answers, but I have learned that there are different questions. Until you can get your head around asking those questions, and not waste your time stuffing it (and this newsgroup) full of complacent nonsense, you will learn nothing new. What are you doing here anyway? >The fact that there is no satisfactory scientific explanation as yet >is a gap in our understanding that does not necessarily require a God >to fill it. Satisfactory to whom? To you? Or to some concensus of the hierarchy of your sceptic chums? Truth is only ever a concensus based on context. This speech of yours sounds as though you think your opinions are enough to play God with. Well, I don't. I'll carry on looking for my own god and when I find him or her I'll be sure to let you know the website address. Julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 65 Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:30:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.16.71 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004358660 62.255.16.71 (Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:31:00 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:31:00 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.euro.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73070 On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:04:33 -0500, "Bart Scott" wrote: >This is a thread on Kundalini. As I understand it, Kundalini is not >something beyond "reality". It is a psycho/physiological situation that we >have all described as a possible cause for certain types of insanity. The psychotic symptoms for a spontaneous surge of kundalini are consistent, as we have seen here. They have been studied and identified. They have been the cause for thousands of people getting locked up and anaestetised and occasionally exorcised, according to which doctor is brought in. In the tribal village society, the shaman/priest would have been brought in to heal the sufferer. Recently I discussed kundalini symptoms at length, on two seperate occasions. One was with a senior Social Worker in Inner London, who recognised the sypmtoms from many of the people she, personally, had been locking up for decades. She had just been given a grant for a research project, and she used it after this conversation to study the 'incidence and implications of kundalini arousal on compulsary admissions to psychiatric hospitals.' Good for her. Even better for the victims who will escape being locked up because of her work. The other conversation was with a General Medical Practitioner (and sci-fi writer) from Brighton. She too recognised the symptoms from many of the people she had committed to asylums. She said that she had received absolutley no medical training in these symptoms, and so assumed that very few doctors, if any, ever did. She went away determined to research the situation, and in the meantime, to recommend house-calls from shamanic practitioners to future cases. Because the shamans knew about it and she didn't. I call that enlightened. >The Astral Plane is easy to access. A smile or a curse word from a stranger >on the street can put you into an Astral journey in an instant. All >"fictional" stories are capable of bringing individuals to a certain level >of their own reality. People identify with, and collect around, those who >explain things in a familiar way. The key word here is "familiar". We tend >to stick around with those who speak in familiar terms. They speak the same language. Travelling abroad involves the risk of not knowing what is happening. A lot of people can't cope with that. >Fiction writers are travellers. Every invention that has ever been >materialized in the physical came from an internal experience. I like this bit! >We know how much of the physical operates. We don't know it all - but we >know quite a bit. That which we do not know is still part of the >non-physical mentality. I, personally, would not be so quick to call it >"ancient mythology". Look at how little 'we' knew 100, 50, 10 years ago about the physical world. 'We' are all sharing information faster than ever before. 'Ancient mythology' is already what the Victorians believed, the 'New Age' mythology is struggling to make concensus of what their ancestors believed. Quantum Mechanics suggests that 'we' may have got it all wrong so far, and the shamans were right all along. The information explosion alters the shape of the world, and its many-layered realities change too fast for most of 'us' to handle. 'We' are growing very fast indeed. May you live in interesting times. (Ancient Chinese curse.) Love from Julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bdd470a.14681001@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda9320.3926081@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdad694.967084@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdaedeb.954020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 55 Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:30:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.16.71 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004358661 62.255.16.71 (Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:31:01 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:31:01 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!diablo.theplanet.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73069 On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:08:17 GMT, none@nospam.com (ao) wrote: >I have no doubt that their are certain involuntary movements that can >occur during the circulation of subtle energies in meditation, as I >have both witnessed this and experienced it. However, it is also >possible that certain specific practices may bring on effects that are >not necessarily in our best interests, it seems to me. Since I don't >have any direct experience with what you referring to here, I can't >really comment any further on it. Fair enough. That's the problem with sharing 'Forbidden Information', other people can't understand it. I still think it is worth knowing, to store in the filing cabonet of the brain, for future reference. >Well, some might say that pain and suffering, as well as mental >aberrations, are transcended when one approaches more enlightened >states. :-) 'Ecstacy' as a word, just about covers it. Never tried the drug called by that name, and I have not yet reached the 'ecstatic' state described by visionaries and mystics. But I have glimpsed it, and it seems appealing enough to be a goal. >I personally don't believe that such practices are necessary in terms >of our overall development though. Some may assist us in achieving >certain personal goals, or be symbolic to our psyches perhaps. Life >brings us into direct contact with enough pain and challenges as it >is, it seems to me though. That is just my personal view of course. I >am not passing judgement on those who do such things. We each have to >make our own way in this world. ...or in the other worlds we contact... >I would disagree that people do not try to convince others to follow >their beliefs and practices. This happens all the time, it seems to >me. I will also suggest that just because something seems to make >sense to us, whether in a normal or altered state of consciousness, it >doesn't necessarily mean that such practices are in our overall best >interests in terms of our development. Who decides that? The people who attempt the practices decide that it is in their best interest. Many fail, some die, some succeed. No-one else has the right to decide for them. >BTW, has anyone else noticed how many people who have experienced >OBE's and lucid dreams have also had experiences in which they have >felt 'energy' circulating through their body, or experienced kundalini >like experiences, or experienced what they felt were higher states of >consciousness in the waking state, etc? I personally lean towards the >idea that this is not just a coincidence. They are all part of the same territory. If you wander into one of these worlds, the others open up for you. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: David Mitchell Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:06:59 +0000 Organization: Paradise Computer Software Message-ID: <1004360821.15170.0.nnrp-08.c2de2739@news.demon.co.uk> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> Reply-To: david@edenroad.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: edenroad.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: edenroad.demon.co.uk:194.222.39.57 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1004360821 nnrp-08:15170 NO-IDENT edenroad.demon.co.uk:194.222.39.57 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net User-Agent: KNode/0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Lines: 22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!edenroad.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73139 Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > >>The fact that there is no satisfactory scientific explanation as yet >>is a gap in our understanding that does not necessarily require a God >>to fill it. > > Satisfactory to whom? To you? Or to some concensus of the hierarchy of > your sceptic chums? Truth is only ever a concensus based on context. Uh? Truth is what works. And it's true even if you don't understand it. In that respect science is closer to the truth than any amount of woo-woo nonsense. -- ======================================================================= = David - Visit www.thehungersite.com = Mitchell - Feed someone for nothing ======================================================================= ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-oBmm5MQbX7ylXDXsqXiDO8b+TNmSLVQMq1Hw+YqOhstJOqwqhJL Lines: 50 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:07:10 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-nekcsQ8bxkyE+7ozVky5ZSMPQ6Q7eyZQV7HzUN+QkAguhVzu3dCeBmXAWlOx1dUyqd4b25CK4jcLjYK!nFV8sMzjEhCUDJH7gGeWXHI/od+VTjDKg2lAaLApLHYtdRkKm6VSdy5NTRxs48A9qJP+qTQK4fIq!EnUxm1UFrQPTb7uNjRUPgA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:07:10 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73098 In article <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > Recently I discussed kundalini symptoms at length, on two seperate > occasions. One was with a senior Social Worker in Inner London, who > recognised the sypmtoms from many of the people she, personally, had > been locking up for decades. She had just been given a grant for a > research project, and she used it after this conversation to study the > 'incidence and implications of kundalini arousal on compulsary > admissions to psychiatric hospitals.' Good for her. Even better for > the victims who will escape being locked up because of her work. > > The other conversation was with a General Medical Practitioner (and > sci-fi writer) from Brighton. She too recognised the symptoms from > many of the people she had committed to asylums. She said that she had > received absolutley no medical training in these symptoms, and so > assumed that very few doctors, if any, ever did. She went away > determined to research the situation, and in the meantime, to > recommend house-calls from shamanic practitioners to future cases. > Because the shamans knew about it and she didn't. I call that > enlightened. Will you have the opportunity to keep in touch with these women to see if they follow up on their resolve? I did not go to a doctor during my distress, among other reasons because I feared being locked up if forced to talk about it. I knew I wasn't completely mad, because I was rational enough to observe my mind disintegrating without ever fully giving in to the delusions, though powerless to stop them from arising. Being a stubborn cuss, I was determined to "beat it or bust" on my own and was strong enough most of the time to keep all the weird thoughts, emotions and imaginings to myself. I did attempt to talk about certain ordinary psychological issues that came up, such as those regarding my father, whose death had occurred not long before this, since those seemed important to work through. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net> <1f207r4.1ivvqyu1v4l6kgN%spnak@petitmorte.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 27 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:07:36 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:09:43 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73144 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.16467d326811fd09989d63@news.starlinx.com... > In article <1f207r4.1ivvqyu1v4l6kgN%spnak@petitmorte.net>, > spnak@petitmorte.net says... > > Janice wrote: > > > > > In article <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net>, > > > spnak@petitmorte.net says... > > > > lorz wrote: > > > > > > > > > I believe she was into E > > > > > > > > E? Ecstasy? Ellen? Elevators? > > > > > > Elephants. It can only mean elephants. :) > > > > Pink? > > Perhaps pink, but personally I suspect a chic lavender. > > -- Funny guys. Ecstasy...... ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-9yDzVUnKb9DPLBHhm/1lFDizXT5axmc9n50ynuBmwk/yd8Ag4hA Lines: 33 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 08:19:31 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-VdY9nGsUWtf6p+Zu3duwKWOT5UlB9RfZH8Nzk9vsnexAs7pHAXLWJky9gMmwtaZ5lK0H/5fOPT+xEV+!Yb7gt6BFzlhzKCEkxYY3B5lXuMQrAS993sTg6LvGEBRMV9ou+E/AsGrqmxhX4IVM9npj/cAsyCii!Ddm0cyQzJ4KSa98pUPnpkw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:19:31 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73104 In article <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:32:59 -0000, Ian H Spedding > wrote: > > >I don't suppose they do but people are asserting personal > >philosophical and religious beliefs as fact and therein lies the > >danger, as I wrote earlier. Who was it who said that if you proclaim > >a lie loud enough and often enough people will come to believe it? > > You seem to be asserting your own 'personal philosophic and religious > beliefs ' pretty loudly here. Or don't your own rules apply to you? I do find it a bit strange that Ian felt a need to interject in this way. I may be wrong but I think everyone participating in this thread has the basic intellectual skill of being able to read something written from a viewpoint other than their own and see that the writer was working from the perspective of a particular belief system without the writer having to explicitly qualify everything they say as such. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd91023.2271156@news.ntlworld.com> <9rcg8d$koq$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 34 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 11:47:53 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:51:21 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73140 "The Original Ken" wrote in message news:A9oC7.160$j14.6134@wormhole.dimensional.com... > > Bart wrote in message > news:9rcg8d$koq$1@slb2.atl.mindspring.net... > > > > lorz wrote in message ... > > > > > > > > >> > > >> -- > > >> > > >> The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter > > >> is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan > > >> > > > > > >Who was Henry Porter? > > > > > > We don't really know for sure - except that his name wasn't Henry > Porter... > > > That's right. It was Harry Potter, but the only think we know for sure > about Harry Potter is that his name is Harry Potter and not Henry Porter, so > we still don't know who Henry Porter is. > > > > Har har har... :Þ ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 19 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <_KfD7.78223$B3.2275944@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 11:47:54 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:54:30 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73141 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.16466ecde29643c8989d61@news.starlinx.com... > In article <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net>, > spnak@petitmorte.net says... > > lorz wrote: > > > > > I believe she was into E > > > > E? Ecstasy? Ellen? Elevators? > > Elephants. It can only mean elephants. :) > > -- > Yeah that's it! It's elephants all the way down! ;) ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:02:50 -0600 Organization: Happy Noodle Boy! Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> Reply-To: myers@mac.invalid X-Trace: laurel.tc.umn.edu 1004371371 17425 146.57.32.36 (29 Oct 2001 16:02:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@laurel.tc.umn.edu User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "w/5:'{b21!-UbG8:}Tk?P%!\!n(cgznyt]sJL5N2_2bsRhGTRJ%UX!Wx%GgGA.Ri]*PQJB>y%sHxmrIRlVPU/3\@JI8H}KHLQbbzA)1j,*4mxqqt\}[L"XpE1\C7xg2mJH]NelCKASP;xvO'}"W(8y+kf,EyaeHk"h.DUlJ-L%p+jk|E1i0V>_$(5nnx,'GnM^%Sd0V Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hardy.tc.umn.edu!laurel.tc.umn.edu!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73080 In article , Janice wrote: > In article <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:32:59 -0000, Ian H Spedding > > wrote: > > > > >I don't suppose they do but people are asserting personal > > >philosophical and religious beliefs as fact and therein lies the > > >danger, as I wrote earlier. Who was it who said that if you proclaim > > >a lie loud enough and often enough people will come to believe it? > > > > You seem to be asserting your own 'personal philosophic and religious > > beliefs ' pretty loudly here. Or don't your own rules apply to you? > > I do find it a bit strange that Ian felt a need to interject in this way. > I may be wrong but I think everyone participating in this thread has the > basic intellectual skill of being able to read something written from a > viewpoint other than their own and see that the writer was working from > the perspective of a particular belief system without the writer having > to explicitly qualify everything they say as such. Yes. Now we just have to get it into everyone's heads that some belief systems are better than other belief systems; this deplorable po-mo doctrine of extreme relativism in which everyone's beliefs are just as valid as everyone elses has got to be expunged. At least a good chunk of Ian's personal philosophic and religious beliefs avoid outright conflict with objective reality, which is much more than can be said for Julia's. -- pz ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd90d14.1487721@news.ntlworld.com> <3bd9df0f.866591@news.ntlworld.com> <2o%C7.31$gz3.54934@bcandid.telisphere.com> <3bdd1343.1423859@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 50 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <00gD7.78234$B3.2278261@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:06:04 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:06:52 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanjose!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73134 "Julia Hawkes-Moore" wrote in message news:3bdd1343.1423859@news.ntlworld.com... > On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 22:11:10 GMT, "dorothy" > wrote: > >> Fair enough! How rude of him not to write back. > > > >Not necessarily. Vonnegut was wildly popular in the late 60s and 70s and > >probably got tons and tons of mail. Mine probably got tossed by some office > >clerk. > > ah, the perils of having staff... > > >Wasn't it the son's > >> book which you related to, though? > > > >The same holds true for the son's book. I was greatly relieved to read that > >I could avoid future occurances by watching my diet, avoiding drugs, etc. > > this was the time at which the 'secret' information began to filter > through. > > >> >Anyway, I certainly don't think that life is so structured that I'll > >"lose > >> >my path" if I don't follow up on every chance circumstance that occurs to > >> >me. I'd have pursued relationships with plenty of rock stars if that were > >> >the case. ;-) > >> > >> Coo! There is something mouthwateringly tempting about that particular > >> level of insanity... I was once handed a Concorde ticket to New York > >> with my name on it, but I handed it back. Now, if their next gig had > >> been in San Francisco... > >> Love from Julia > >> Julia > > > >Who's gig? You lost me there. > > oh, a band called Rockpile... two lovely guys called Dave Edmunds and > Nick Lowe. Thye competed for my attention for a few agreeable hours. > Julia Julia! Were you a traveling groupie? ;) ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 50 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:17:47 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:19:52 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73138 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.164666df84bd0e8a989d5c@news.starlinx.com... > In article , > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > In article , not-me@not- > > here.net says... > > > I am calling it a *feeling* of an electrical current, because that is > what it *felt* like. I am not calling it a literal electrical current > (though of course the nervous system does function electrochemically). > Some people do think of "kundalini" as an actual kind of energy, but I'm > inclined to think that the nervous system may be oversensitized for some > reason as an effect of these experiences and not necessarily more active. > > As I've mentioned, after what I went through no one is f*cking going to > get me to try to replicate this experience so it can be tested. I did > once talk to a man who said he had an EEG while in the midst of a > "kundlini" crisis. Too his surprise nothing abnormal showed up. Of > course an EEG may not have had the best test for the job. Janice, do you think that feeling of electrical current you felt in kundalini is the same or somehow related to the electrical feeling felt in OOB experiences? I know my head buzzing, swirling, sensation feels to be very electrical although hard to really explain. -- > > The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter > is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan I just don't like that Bob Dylan quote for some reason. It bothers me. LOL Why is that ? Change it! Grrrrrrrrrr > > My homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html > > The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html > > The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### Message-ID: <3BDDC8A9.7010405@yahoo.com> From: Raistlin Majere User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:0.9.2) Gecko/20010726 Netscape6/6.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: kundalini Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 4 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.173.97.23 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr16.news.prodigy.com 1004390305 ST000 63.173.97.23 (Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:18:25 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:18:25 EST Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCTS@QR_\[BZNNO_TDEZXXPGLLEXRZKB]MPXHBTWICYFWUQBKZQLYJX\_ITFD_KFVLUN[DOM_A_NSYNWPFWNS[XV\I]PZ@BQ[@CDQDPCL^FKCBIPC@KLGEZEFNMDYMKHRL_YYYGDSSODXYN@[\BK[LVTWI@AXGQCOA_SAH@TPD^\AL\RLGRFWEARBM Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 21:18:25 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!korova.insync.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr16.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73152 my original question was "what is kundalini?" Now that i know what it is AND the side effects of it. my NEW question is how to do it? what is the process to bring it about? ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-e/MgKZT30CdssA8Y9UmHTJCxqwU8v7Eyu7xJdS5k4q9vNUBlam3 Lines: 35 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 17:32:35 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-SaAfRwX5IE366OpQKXvVsETG/gD6JYisATU7vjFqq+NH/GmKEfgCaC+GxKR1+4NqhRXJvKOJtNeXLad!0gMuLZFAEzjYToNi0ZpX2SihROdMxtcecm8Dkg85tC8iTs6m3FfVmVDm+KYWHdW81XnssRbKlLsE!/5kYGEshi8w0ogcDh8joFw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 23:32:35 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73149 In article <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, lorz@bellsouth.net says... > Janice, do you think that feeling of electrical current you felt in > kundalini is the same or somehow related to the electrical feeling felt in > OOB experiences? I know my head buzzing, swirling, sensation feels to be > very electrical although hard to really explain. I don't know. Patricia Garfield thought the two were essentially the same thing, but as I mentioned, offhand I don't remember my OBE/SP vibes getting any stronger when I had the daily strong "kundalini" sensation, which you would think would happen if they were the same. > > The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter > > is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan > > I just don't like that Bob Dylan quote for some reason. It bothers me. LOL > Why is that ? Change it! Grrrrrrrrrr I'll change it soon. But I'm going to be using weird lines from songs for the foreseeable future. :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "Delboy" Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: kundalini Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 23:24:32 -0000 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <3BDDC8A9.7010405@yahoo.com> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 16 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73165 This no good to you m8. http://www.kundaliniyoga.org/ They do a free online course with lots of steps for you to try. Delboy "Raistlin Majere" wrote in message news:3BDDC8A9.7010405@yahoo.com... > my original question was "what is kundalini?" Now that i know what it > is AND the side effects of it. my NEW question is how to do it? what > is the process to bring it about? > ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-QJOCSEmHrvS16808idqfiLt4Oo7uQuKRcbeEqIuhQgBypqoa4AX Lines: 46 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:14:49 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-n76zYAVQcrbZjImjetvnv1Ccz1Z9Jk+KzEIsKMCNvf4FhSBIWq6uShRUWa7NG/Vf11PrIHLaqLxpp70!+CPHQUnhN1WysnLrYoG34SDWNMtNs3XVP3LZgPkrhBSfZSeQskvK9Rn1bi6vvAyo/Ajo6yASCUAZ!oLvfILR6LqAwL0pt7BRi1A== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 00:14:49 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73183 In article , pzm@mac.com says... > In article , > Janice wrote: > > I do find it a bit strange that Ian felt a need to interject in this way. > > I may be wrong but I think everyone participating in this thread has the > > basic intellectual skill of being able to read something written from a > > viewpoint other than their own and see that the writer was working from > > the perspective of a particular belief system without the writer having > > to explicitly qualify everything they say as such. > > Yes. Now we just have to get it into everyone's heads that some belief > systems are better than other belief systems; this deplorable po-mo > doctrine of extreme relativism in which everyone's beliefs are just as > valid as everyone elses has got to be expunged. > > At least a good chunk of Ian's personal philosophic and religious beliefs > avoid outright conflict with objective reality, which is much more than > can be said for Julia's. Whether all belief systems are created equal or not they do have an equal right to be expressed here, a right I believe you've said you respect, especially since it means you can express your own opinion. Ian on the other hand asked us to attempt to constrain the discussion to within bounds he finds acceptable: 'By all means discuss this so-called "kundalini phenomenon" but at least try to do so on the basis of what we have learnt so far about the way the Universe works.' Critiquing other people's theories I don't mind; attempting to set the terms for their expression I do mind, particularly when I am finding reading about them interesting--which is NOT the same thing as believing that they are equally valid. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:44 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 30 Oct 2001 01:30:56 GMT, host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 86 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73178 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article , > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > In article , not-me@not- > > here.net says... > > > > > > The experience itself is fantastical enough! Cutting through the added > > > layers of interpretation, as I'm sure you've tried to do, do you have any > > > insights, Ian, about the baseline experience? Have you come across any > > > mention of sensations of powerful electrical currents in your reading > > > about depression? > > > > I don't have any penetrating insights to offer, I'm afraid. It isn't > > listed as part of the pathology of depression as far as I'm aware, > > although I suppose there could be a connection to bipolar disorder. > > Or perhaps to anxiety neurosis. In my case extreme anxiety was part of > the initial experience and a subsequent period of anxiety preceded and > merged into the eventual depression. It's possible to give a biochemical explanation in terms of neurotransmitter imbalance for that part of the experience, at least. > > It would be interesting to see if there is a strong association > > between this phenomenon and a predisposition to LD/OBEs. > > Certainly. Now if only we had a broader database to work with than known > lucid dreamers/OBE'rs ... That would be better. > > The only thing that occurs to me is that, as described, it sounds more > > like a phenomenon of sensation rather than mentation or, to use > > another analogy, partly like interference affecting radio reception. > > This idea of an upsurge of random 'noise' somewhere in the nervous > > system makes me wonder if the phenomenon is related to epilepsy. > > If so at least it didn't give me convulsions. :) Judging from your description, you had enough to cope with without convulsions. The milder form of epilepsy or perhaps the precursor state to convulsions is what I was thinking of. I was also wondering about the hypothesis that epileptic fits are actually induced by the brain as a means of trying to break out of mental or behavioural 'loops' that have become established in part of the brain. > > I can understand that you find comfort in knowing that your experience > > is not unique and in sharing it with others, especially if it has > > caused you considerable suffering. I agree that the various mystical > > and mythological explanations are evidence of the exceptional > > fertility of human imagination. I have no problem with either of > > these points. > > > > If I'm honest, my reaction to this discussion is driven by two > > concerns. The first is that I find it very disquieting to hear > > religious, political and philosophical beliefs asserted as if they > > were fact. > > Aren't you used to that by now? ;-) Well, yes, but expecting it isn't the same as accepting it. > > It isn't doubt which leads to terrorism and war but > > conviction. > > > > The second is, I suppose, reactionary in that I object to the > > presumption that folklore, folk mythologies and Eastern mysticism are > > intrinsically superior compared to what might loosely be called > > Western thought. > > Well, any problem you may have on that score I'll leave to those who make > that presumption. Of course. I wasn't suggesting that you were one of those. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:46 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 30 Oct 2001 01:30:58 GMT, host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 77 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73169 In article <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, Mindwipe@bellsouth.net says... > > "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message > news:MPG.16467f63dbf1c9ab9896d5@news.lineone.net... > > > I accept that people are reporting a similar experience which is, in > > itself, interesting. > > Most of our bodies are similar. > > >What I find difficult to accept are the complex > > and fantastic explanations which are built on such a narrow base. At > > least, I find it hard to accept that they have any basis in reality. > > This is a thread on Kundalini. As I understand it, Kundalini is not > something beyond "reality". It is a psycho/physiological situation that we > have all described as a possible cause for certain types of insanity. I thought insanity was more of a legal than a medical definition. I haven't heard of any psychological disorders being attributed to a kundalini event although I accept that may be because Westerm medicine is not familiar with the phenomenon. > > We have contemporary examples, such as my own favourite Star Trek, > > where something begins as an idea in the mind of one man and evolves > > into a vast but entirely fictional culture, complete with its own > > technology and even languages. > > The Astral Plane is easy to access. Not for me, I'm afraid. Perhaps I need a different ASP (Astral Service Provider) :) > A smile or a curse word from a stranger > on the street can put you into an Astral journey in an instant. All > "fictional" stories are capable of bringing individuals to a certain level > of their own reality. People identify with, and collect around, those who > explain things in a familiar way. The key word here is "familiar". We tend > to stick around with those who speak in familiar terms. > > > In Scientology we have a wealthy and powerful 'religion' grown from > > the fantasies of a third-rate science-fiction writer. > > Fiction writers are travellers. Every invention that has ever been > materialized in the physical came from an internal experience. Most inventions did not emerge from the minds of fiction writers. > > I can appreciate people wanting to discuss these experiences with > > others who have known the same but surely the reason for doing so is > > to try and learn about them - to understand what is happening. > > Of course... > > > Is it really likely that a greater understanding can be derived from > > ancient mythologies that were constructed by people who knew far less > > about how the Universe works than we do? > > We know how much of the physical operates. We don't know it all - but we > know quite a bit. That which we do not know is still part of the > non-physical mentality. I, personally, would not be so quick to call it > "ancient mythology". I only meant that some of the explanations of the kundalini phenomenon come from ancient mythologies. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:48 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 30 Oct 2001 01:30:59 GMT, host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 59 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73166 In article <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:04:33 -0500, "Bart Scott" > wrote: > >This is a thread on Kundalini. As I understand it, Kundalini is not > >something beyond "reality". It is a psycho/physiological situation that we > >have all described as a possible cause for certain types of insanity. > > The psychotic symptoms for a spontaneous surge of kundalini are > consistent, as we have seen here. They have been studied and > identified. They have been the cause for thousands of people getting > locked up and anaestetised and occasionally exorcised, according to > which doctor is brought in. In the tribal village society, the > shaman/priest would have been brought in to heal the sufferer. > > Recently I discussed kundalini symptoms at length, on two seperate > occasions. One was with a senior Social Worker in Inner London, who > recognised the sypmtoms from many of the people she, personally, had > been locking up for decades. She had just been given a grant for a > research project, and she used it after this conversation to study the > 'incidence and implications of kundalini arousal on compulsary > admissions to psychiatric hospitals.' Good for her. Even better for > the victims who will escape being locked up because of her work. > > The other conversation was with a General Medical Practitioner (and > sci-fi writer) from Brighton. She too recognised the symptoms from > many of the people she had committed to asylums. She said that she had > received absolutley no medical training in these symptoms, and so > assumed that very few doctors, if any, ever did. She went away > determined to research the situation, and in the meantime, to > recommend house-calls from shamanic practitioners to future cases. > Because the shamans knew about it and she didn't. I call that > enlightened. I don't think general practitioners have the power to commit people to asylums. What they can do is "section" them. This means that under one of the sections of the Mental Health Act they can have vulnerable patients detained in a psychological ward temporarily while a more detailed assessment of their condition is made, although I think even this requires the agreement of another competent person such as a social worker. Having said that, your doctor sounds like someone who is willing to consider novel approaches. As you may know, I work for "GP" which is one of the three weekly newspapers which is distributed free to general practitioners. We are always on the lookout for GPs who are willing to try something unorthodox, so perhaps the next time you speak to her you could ask her to get in touch with us. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:49 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 30 Oct 2001 01:31:00 GMT, host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 97 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73164 In article <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:32:59 -0000, Ian H Spedding > wrote: > >> > I have no objection to a certain experience being explained as > >> > 'Kundalini', whatever that is supposed to mean, nor to a belief in > >> > Shamanism involving Under-, Middle- and Upperworlds. But if you want > >> > to persuade me that they are any more real than world of The Lord of > >> > the Rings you will need rather more than personal anecdotes, no matter > >> > how heart-warming or stimulating they might be. > > I don't want to persuade you Ian, personally, of anything at all. But > for the few people reading this who have a genuine interest in going > out of body, I can offer relevant information. You are absolutely convinced that something leaves the body during an OBE? > >> I don't think anyone's interested in persuading you, Ian. > > Oh now someone else agrees. Thank you. Why do you feel so threatened > by ways of thinking which differ from the ones which you regurgitate? I don't feel threatened by different ways of thinking but I am concerned about religions or philosophies where they lay claim to some sort of absolute truth. As we have seen recently in the case of Islamic fundamentalists, when taken to extremes these beliefs can cause a great deal of harm. I don't think your belief in shamanism is in any way like that but you do write as if you are in no doubt as to the truth of its teachings. > >I don't suppose they do but people are asserting personal > >philosophical and religious beliefs as fact and therein lies the > >danger, as I wrote earlier. Who was it who said that if you proclaim > >a lie loud enough and often enough people will come to believe it? > > You seem to be asserting your own 'personal philosophic and religious > beliefs ' pretty loudly here. Or don't your own rules apply to you? The difference is that I am not asserting any form of truth. I am agnostic as far as religion and philosophy are concerned. The only thing I believe in, in that sense, is a method - the scientific method. I also believe in the importance of doubt and uncertainty because, although they are unsettling, unlike certainty they are the spur to trying to trying to learn more. > >By all means discuss this so-called "kundalini phenomenon" but at > >least try to do so on the basis of what we have learnt so far about > >the way the Universe works. > > "We" have learned? Or what 'you' have learned? Since I started going > obe regularly I have learned a damn sight more about the way the > universe works than you know. You may think you have all the answers, > but I have learned that there are different questions. Until you can > get your head around asking those questions, and not waste your time > stuffing it (and this newsgroup) full of complacent nonsense, you will > learn nothing new. What are you doing here anyway? You are the one who is talking about Underworlds and Middleworlds and so on as if they are established fact. I'm still waiting for evidence which can be shown to anyone that any of it exists in the sense that the world we see around us exists. > >The fact that there is no satisfactory scientific explanation as yet > >is a gap in our understanding that does not necessarily require a God > >to fill it. > > Satisfactory to whom? To you? Or to some concensus of the hierarchy of > your sceptic chums? Truth is only ever a concensus based on context. > This speech of yours sounds as though you think your opinions are > enough to play God with. Well, I don't. I'll carry on looking for my > own god and when I find him or her I'll be sure to let you know the > website address. A consensus view is not necessarily the truth, as in the well-worn example of a majority of people in the distant past assuming that the world was flat. There are many different explanations about how the world, or parts of it, work. Some are contradictory. They could only be equally true if there is no real world to check them against. If there is a real world, some of these explanations must be more accurate than others. Some of them are just plain wrong. How do we find out which is which? We look for the evidence and we test them, in other words we apply the scientific method. What is wrong with that? Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:50 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net> <_KfD7.78223$B3.2275944@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 30 Oct 2001 01:31:01 GMT, host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 32 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73168 In article <_KfD7.78223$B3.2275944@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > "Janice" wrote in message > news:MPG.16466ecde29643c8989d61@news.starlinx.com... > > In article <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net>, > > spnak@petitmorte.net says... > > > lorz wrote: > > > > > > > I believe she was into E > > > > > > E? Ecstasy? Ellen? Elevators? > > > > Elephants. It can only mean elephants. :) > > > > -- > > > > Yeah that's it! It's elephants all the way down! ;) Turtles! Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:52 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 30 Oct 2001 01:31:03 GMT, host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 44 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-123-53-37.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73171 In article <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > "Janice" wrote in message > news:MPG.164666df84bd0e8a989d5c@news.starlinx.com... > > In article , > > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > > In article , not-me@not- > > > here.net says... > > > > > > > > > I am calling it a *feeling* of an electrical current, because that is > > what it *felt* like. I am not calling it a literal electrical current > > (though of course the nervous system does function electrochemically). > > Some people do think of "kundalini" as an actual kind of energy, but I'm > > inclined to think that the nervous system may be oversensitized for some > > reason as an effect of these experiences and not necessarily more active. > > > > As I've mentioned, after what I went through no one is f*cking going to > > get me to try to replicate this experience so it can be tested. I did > > once talk to a man who said he had an EEG while in the midst of a > > "kundlini" crisis. Too his surprise nothing abnormal showed up. Of > > course an EEG may not have had the best test for the job. > > Janice, do you think that feeling of electrical current you felt in > kundalini is the same or somehow related to the electrical feeling felt in > OOB experiences? I know my head buzzing, swirling, sensation feels to be > very electrical although hard to really explain. The other thing, is it AC or DC?:) Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net> <_KfD7.78223$B3.2275944@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-H0dgltEsvlmFsk/5OnmQXHFbqgeaGb70hsWZcJAJt+AfXW71Rk4 Lines: 36 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 20:38:39 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-Axfut4+aV2H04IrOG3sK7ZU8SHv8AhwrPne9EMPWDXJCKqYqWc5mib104LfX0hzIJj+orfBWPa/pT3T!hykOFzBmShu5lYm/vWYCIMc+yCjLUNywPZKdpamCppqilkIvcJJScdWaVUEIoO9ks0Bk+IKeS9i3!nmHpN2aCLBKjFWSTaGG1oQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 02:38:39 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73182 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > In article <_KfD7.78223$B3.2275944@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > "Janice" wrote in message > > news:MPG.16466ecde29643c8989d61@news.starlinx.com... > > > In article <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net>, > > > spnak@petitmorte.net says... > > > > lorz wrote: > > > > > > > > > I believe she was into E > > > > > > > > E? Ecstasy? Ellen? Elevators? > > > > > > Elephants. It can only mean elephants. :) > > > > Yeah that's it! It's elephants all the way down! ;) > > Turtles! Oh, surely there's room for both turtles and elephants. :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-6rI3/lRkgu9JiHxsNiZg1gkgy1HPzj6Ks0aW6zXLNib9ON4zMAt Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 20:47:27 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-v6DvftZvKnrS52uZP7v28boHTOQTngpvFGmzCS9EuA9kcpVFbBVumFb9zgbrdl5XpYwUNgFXPBG4r5e!Ob+PYfbexC2OkR/ZOYqZLoUA2J+9eQXyLoy4FE60ADnI6Ip2ULiWFnBc4LtiIYNPiOFrHTFdSfX5!z31ueBCu3H1I9bXtLXnO1w== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 02:47:27 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-ber1.dfn.de!news-ham1.dfn.de!news-han1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73180 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > Janice, do you think that feeling of electrical current you felt in > > kundalini is the same or somehow related to the electrical feeling felt in > > OOB experiences? I know my head buzzing, swirling, sensation feels to be > > very electrical although hard to really explain. > > The other thing, is it AC or DC?:) Unfortunately I didn't get a good look at the plug. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-dSjAeWhPL8qGpUQPiFzQ+sWshI8XsiFSBlJvDaIXZ2tSbe46fjR Lines: 94 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 21:07:43 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-UIG1G2GrkexFnNVt4UV+D0uRU3RofpT0TPiXlk/+xHXRH/zMI8NBSEoj+Zs4avVNHLsTnJoovFg3wxr!H6V6twAiiSYMnkqruTmW5zRST6R3Ds4VA8NtyKFVt1Ur0SLpNoCLxd48AbV+M4I+9ukslteeWT+8!X15WeHIHT6q+g5M7xHA+HQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 03:07:43 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73184 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > In article , not-me@not- > here.net says... > > In article , > > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > > In article , not-me@not- > > > here.net says... > > > > > > > > The experience itself is fantastical enough! Cutting through the added > > > > layers of interpretation, as I'm sure you've tried to do, do you have any > > > > insights, Ian, about the baseline experience? Have you come across any > > > > mention of sensations of powerful electrical currents in your reading > > > > about depression? > > > > > > I don't have any penetrating insights to offer, I'm afraid. It isn't > > > listed as part of the pathology of depression as far as I'm aware, > > > although I suppose there could be a connection to bipolar disorder. > > > > Or perhaps to anxiety neurosis. In my case extreme anxiety was part of > > the initial experience and a subsequent period of anxiety preceded and > > merged into the eventual depression. > > It's possible to give a biochemical explanation in terms of > neurotransmitter imbalance for that part of the experience, at least. I suspect so. I'd like to know what that imbalance is, though. High what? Low what? > > > The only thing that occurs to me is that, as described, it sounds more > > > like a phenomenon of sensation rather than mentation or, to use > > > another analogy, partly like interference affecting radio reception. > > > This idea of an upsurge of random 'noise' somewhere in the nervous > > > system makes me wonder if the phenomenon is related to epilepsy. > > > > If so at least it didn't give me convulsions. :) > > Judging from your description, you had enough to cope with without > convulsions. The milder form of epilepsy or perhaps the precursor > state to convulsions is what I was thinking of. The "aura"? > I was also wondering > about the hypothesis that epileptic fits are actually induced by the > brain as a means of trying to break out of mental or behavioural > 'loops' that have become established in part of the brain. I don't know enough about that to comment intelligently. > > > If I'm honest, my reaction to this discussion is driven by two > > > concerns. The first is that I find it very disquieting to hear > > > religious, political and philosophical beliefs asserted as if they > > > were fact. > > > > Aren't you used to that by now? ;-) > > Well, yes, but expecting it isn't the same as accepting it. I both expect and accept it as a normal human tendency that is generally fairly harmless because most of us do learn to filter for it--at least when the beliefs concerned are unappealing or otherwise unacceptable to us. Yes, of course people can be swayed by it when suggestible for one reason or another, but I don't think there's any serious danger of that in this context. > > > The second is, I suppose, reactionary in that I object to the > > > presumption that folklore, folk mythologies and Eastern mysticism are > > > intrinsically superior compared to what might loosely be called > > > Western thought. > > > > Well, any problem you may have on that score I'll leave to those who make > > that presumption. > > Of course. I wasn't suggesting that you were one of those. Not that I find the mythologies without value--the neo-pagan Kali poem I linked to, for instance, did a good job of capturing certain aspects of the psychological feel of the experience in a way that would be difficult for me to put into words myself. -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: none@nospam.com (ao) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda9320.3926081@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdad694.967084@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdaedeb.954020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdd470a.14681001@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 38 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 03:35:13 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.92.69.205 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1004412622 65.92.69.205 (Mon, 29 Oct 2001 22:30:22 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 22:30:22 EST Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news1.tor.metronet.ca!webster!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73167 On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:30:29 GMT, julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote: >On Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:08:17 GMT, none@nospam.com (ao) wrote: >>I personally don't believe that such practices are necessary in terms >>of our overall development though. Some may assist us in achieving >>certain personal goals, or be symbolic to our psyches perhaps. Life >>brings us into direct contact with enough pain and challenges as it >>is, it seems to me though. That is just my personal view of course. I >>am not passing judgement on those who do such things. We each have to >>make our own way in this world. > >...or in the other worlds we contact... > >>I would disagree that people do not try to convince others to follow >>their beliefs and practices. This happens all the time, it seems to >>me. I will also suggest that just because something seems to make >>sense to us, whether in a normal or altered state of consciousness, it >>doesn't necessarily mean that such practices are in our overall best >>interests in terms of our development. > >Who decides that? The people who attempt the practices decide that it >is in their best interest. Many fail, some die, some succeed. No-one >else has the right to decide for them. Well, I really don't see how that applies to what I am saying Julia. I'm certainly not making decisions for anyone, in fact, I repeatedly keep pointing out that I am just expressing my own personal view that certain practices that some people follow that are harmful to the body are not necessary. It is just my opinion, my view, the way I see things. :-). I have my reasons for taking this view. You may not agree with this, and that is your right, but I am as entitled to my opinion as you are to yours. No matter how much we think we know, we still know less than nothing... :-) /ao May all you thoughts be good ones... ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.dreams.lucid,alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bde8029.3987076@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd90d14.1487721@news.ntlworld.com> <3bd9df0f.866591@news.ntlworld.com> <2o%C7.31$gz3.54934@bcandid.telisphere.com> <3bdd1343.1423859@news.ntlworld.com> <00gD7.78234$B3.2278261@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 12 Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:03:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.88.83 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004439858 62.253.88.83 (Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:04:18 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:04:18 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73158 On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:06:52 -0500, "lorz" wrote: >Julia! Were you a traveling groupie? ;) Certainly not. I was Artistic Director of Liverpool University Technical Committee, so I had free tickets to every band visiting. I didn't accept the Concorde ticket because I had exams the next week, and I deludely thought that being the first famous woman Architect was a better plan than being a Rock Star's flirtation. Anyway, both those guys are old, grey and fat now, and I'm not. Heee Hee. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bde8140.4266010@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 26 Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:03:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.88.83 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004439859 62.253.88.83 (Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:04:19 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:04:19 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73155 On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:07:10 GMT, Janice wrote: >Will you have the opportunity to keep in touch with these women to see if >they follow up on their resolve? Yes. I'm due to meet the SW for a day in the best women-only healthspa in London, and the GP lives in Brighton, nearby several good friends of mine. >I did not go to a doctor during my distress, among other reasons because >I feared being locked up if forced to talk about it. I knew I wasn't >completely mad, because I was rational enough to observe my mind >disintegrating without ever fully giving in to the delusions, though >powerless to stop them from arising. Being a stubborn cuss, I was >determined to "beat it or bust" on my own and was strong enough most of >the time to keep all the weird thoughts, emotions and imaginings to >myself. I did attempt to talk about certain ordinary psychological >issues that came up, such as those regarding my father, whose death had >occurred not long before this, since those seemed important to work >through. Tough Woman. You made it through all by yourself! Well done. Me, I'd choose the loving support and understanding of a few well-chosen friends. I need the hugs. Love from julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 26 Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:03:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.88.83 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004439861 62.253.88.83 (Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:04:21 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:04:21 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73161 On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:48 -0000, Ian H Spedding wrote: >I don't think general practitioners have the power to commit people to >asylums. What they can do is "section" them. This means that under >one of the sections of the Mental Health Act they can have >vulnerable patients detained in a psychological ward temporarily while >a more detailed assessment of their condition is made, although I >think even this requires the agreement of another competent person >such as a social worker. Ys, the technical word I coldn't remember was 'section'. It must be wonderful to have a such a large vocabulary as yours. >Having said that, your doctor sounds like someone who is willing to >consider novel approaches. As you may know, I work for "GP" which is >one of the three weekly newspapers which is distributed free to >general practitioners. We are always on the lookout for GPs who are >willing to try something unorthodox, so perhaps the next time you >speak to her you could ask her to get in touch with us. What, to have you attack and slate her in a public forum as you do me? Now, you may just be cutting off your own nose here, Ian. Nor will I refer the GPs I know with shamnic experience, as you have presented yourself as far too vicious. Julia. Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bde82e2.4683957@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 15 Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:03:51 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.88.83 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004439864 62.253.88.83 (Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:04:24 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:04:24 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.euro.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73159 On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:46 -0000, Ian H Spedding wrote: >Most inventions did not emerge from the minds of fiction writers. Bullshit. Go read up on Arthur C Clarke. Gene Rodney has a fair few to answer for, too. >I only meant that some of the explanations of the kundalini phenomenon >come from ancient mythologies. Then be clearer and less antagonistic. You might be met equally, then. Julia. Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 72 Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:03:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.88.83 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004439866 62.253.88.83 (Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:04:26 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:04:26 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73157 On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:49 -0000, Ian H Spedding wrote: >You are absolutely convinced that something leaves the body during an >OBE? No. Next question. >I don't feel threatened by different ways of thinking but I am >concerned about religions or philosophies where they lay claim to some >sort of absolute truth. As we have seen recently in the case of >Islamic fundamentalists, when taken to extremes these beliefs can >cause a great deal of harm. Agreed. But it is still the right of a person to hold their own beliefs. The deliverately harmful exercise of that belief is wrong on any plane of existence, Islamic included. And please stop trying to compare me to the NY terrorists. You belittle no-one but yourself in doing so. >I don't think your belief in shamanism is in any way like that but you >do write as if you are in no doubt as to the truth of its teachings. So why shouldn't I? I happen to believe this stuff. It works. Should I keep quiet to please your narrow little mind? I think not. >> You seem to be asserting your own 'personal philosophic and religious >> beliefs ' pretty loudly here. Or don't your own rules apply to you? > >The difference is that I am not asserting any form of truth. I am >agnostic as far as religion and philosophy are concerned. The only >thing I believe in, in that sense, is a method - the scientific >method. I also believe in the importance of doubt and uncertainty >because, although they are unsettling, unlike certainty they are the >spur to trying to trying to learn more. Then bugger off to a newsgroup which discusses the scientific method, if you get upset by what we do here. >You are the one who is talking about Underworlds and Middleworlds and >so on as if they are established fact. I'm still waiting for evidence >which can be shown to anyone that any of it exists in the sense that >the world we see around us exists. Well, train for a few years as a Shaman and you will believe in them too. The evidence of your eyes is only available if you take the blinkers off and open your eyes first. But if you stay sitting on your arse waiting to be surprised in fromnt of a computer, nothing of interest will happen. >A consensus view is not necessarily the truth, as in the well-worn >example of a majority of people in the distant past assuming that the >world was flat. It was the truth to that particular group of people, as I made clear in my post. Start listening and stop thinking. You might learn something. >There are many different explanations about how the world, or parts of >it, work. Some are contradictory. They could only be equally true if >there is no real world to check them against. If there is a real >world, some of these explanations must be more accurate than others. >Some of them are just plain wrong. How do we find out which is which? >We look for the evidence and we test them, in other words we apply the >scientific method. What is wrong with that? 'We' does not include me. 'We' only appears to include you and your even nastier chums. Carry on applying the scientific mathod all you please but at least attempt to recognise that there is more going on around you than you can currently see. Julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bde86bb.5669311@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bda9320.3926081@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdad694.967084@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdaedeb.954020@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <3bdd470a.14681001@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 14 Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:03:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.88.83 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004439868 62.253.88.83 (Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:04:28 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:04:28 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73160 On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 03:35:13 GMT, none@nospam.com (ao) wrote: >Well, I really don't see how that applies to what I am saying Julia. >I'm certainly not making decisions for anyone, in fact, I repeatedly >keep pointing out that I am just expressing my own personal view that >certain practices that some people follow that are harmful to the body >are not necessary. It is just my opinion, my view, the way I see >things. :-). I have my reasons for taking this view. You may not >agree with this, and that is your right, but I am as entitled to my >opinion as you are to yours. No matter how much we think we know, we >still know less than nothing... :-) Fine, subject closed then. Julia. Julia ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde8140.4266010@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-R239AgwsMGGjTMHuVrE/5f6sfOwfXB595xKnDnao9he/6giz3LV Lines: 46 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 05:42:06 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-MnmIJs/KC/nY/KEzKgcsey+Zwves9tYjHHBpxY/WIn2XK5gVxXTsMpzwPuWUDRUD+xG3R0BdYiloTtM!XhuEBNCeGRjTKTi6s/fNxWLOa4m6NMSDCN8oLHli4f/Dq2QZ0wxB6s7IOPYpRYwsZCBLu9LKHCqb!ls+Ey707P8uMb0hXEhiB7g== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:42:06 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!btnet-peer1!btnet!novia!novia!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73181 In article <3bde8140.4266010@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:07:10 GMT, Janice wrote: > >Will you have the opportunity to keep in touch with these women to see if > >they follow up on their resolve? > > Yes. I'm due to meet the SW for a day in the best women-only healthspa > in London, and the GP lives in Brighton, nearby several good friends > of mine. Be sure to keep us posted. > >I did not go to a doctor during my distress, among other reasons because > >I feared being locked up if forced to talk about it. I knew I wasn't > >completely mad, because I was rational enough to observe my mind > >disintegrating without ever fully giving in to the delusions, though > >powerless to stop them from arising. Being a stubborn cuss, I was > >determined to "beat it or bust" on my own and was strong enough most of > >the time to keep all the weird thoughts, emotions and imaginings to > >myself. I did attempt to talk about certain ordinary psychological > >issues that came up, such as those regarding my father, whose death had > >occurred not long before this, since those seemed important to work > >through. > > Tough Woman. You made it through all by yourself! Well done. > Me, I'd choose the loving support and understanding of a few > well-chosen friends. I need the hugs. I didn't have any friends at the time, except some pen-pals. Mr. Magician aside, the ones I was closest to tried to be helpful. One sent me a tape of her trained parakeet reciting "Pease Porridge Hot" and other nonsense, which was funny enough to make me smile even in that state. :) -- The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-Ov836PHmHl9KkaW94IP+4dIygBFDOxpqNSYjD2eDIuGksqfyWzs Lines: 33 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 05:57:26 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-mrcOVn4mU2Bg1anWXpMmXOOAfUcWchfQ5Wvs+qSMmF/Bpu4YWCkqjpkP4osNjdXzJq0j5CKZPrMm8yF!ZHOwLltgzYhiR5PEWdRYxwuKdj64QOWHIl8PuFYwhaXsjcywVT/fUXraitEMpjuZPf07QMFE+C/v!4/iEU8G5l69aivBSBZPj X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:57:26 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73177 In article <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:48 -0000, Ian H Spedding > wrote: > > >Having said that, your doctor sounds like someone who is willing to > >consider novel approaches. As you may know, I work for "GP" which is > >one of the three weekly newspapers which is distributed free to > >general practitioners. We are always on the lookout for GPs who are > >willing to try something unorthodox, so perhaps the next time you > >speak to her you could ask her to get in touch with us. > > What, to have you attack and slate her in a public forum as you do me? > Now, you may just be cutting off your own nose here, Ian. > Nor will I refer the GPs I know with shamnic experience, as you have > presented yourself as far too vicious. "Vicious" and "Ian" were two words I would never have expected to see paired. :) -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net> <_KfD7.78223$B3.2275944@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 32 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <5ZyD7.85454$B3.2474005@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:40:01 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:18:52 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!64.152.100.70.MISMATCH!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73189 "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message news:MPG.164812cec76694d49896e1@news.lineone.net... > In article <_KfD7.78223$B3.2275944@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > "Janice" wrote in message > > news:MPG.16466ecde29643c8989d61@news.starlinx.com... > > > In article <1f2052k.8jdnfq1psq7cN%spnak@petitmorte.net>, > > > spnak@petitmorte.net says... > > > > lorz wrote: > > > > > > > > > I believe she was into E > > > > > > > > E? Ecstasy? Ellen? Elevators? > > > > > > Elephants. It can only mean elephants. :) > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > Yeah that's it! It's elephants all the way down! ;) > > Turtles! > > Ian > Well, yeah. But there were some elephants up near the top! ;) ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 35 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <8ZyD7.85457$B3.2474005@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:40:04 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:35:21 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!easynews!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73191 "Julia Hawkes-Moore" wrote in message news:3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com... > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:48 -0000, Ian H Spedding > wrote: > >I don't think general practitioners have the power to commit people to > >asylums. What they can do is "section" them. This means that under > >one of the sections of the Mental Health Act they can have > >vulnerable patients detained in a psychological ward temporarily while > >a more detailed assessment of their condition is made, although I > >think even this requires the agreement of another competent person > >such as a social worker. > > Ys, the technical word I coldn't remember was 'section'. It must be > wonderful to have a such a large vocabulary as yours. LOL. Did get a bit technical there. Reminded me of a Sherilyn answer. (No offense Sher) > > >Having said that, your doctor sounds like someone who is willing to > >consider novel approaches. As you may know, I work for "GP" which is > >one of the three weekly newspapers which is distributed free to > >general practitioners. We are always on the lookout for GPs who are > >willing to try something unorthodox, so perhaps the next time you > >speak to her you could ask her to get in touch with us. > > What, to have you attack and slate her in a public forum as you do me? > Now, you may just be cutting off your own nose here, Ian. > Nor will I refer the GPs I know with shamnic experience, as you have > presented yourself as far too vicious. > Julia. ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 45 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <9ZyD7.85458$B3.2474005@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:40:05 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:36:46 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73192 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.16485fa422197ff989d7c@news.starlinx.com... > In article <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:48 -0000, Ian H Spedding > > wrote: > > > > >Having said that, your doctor sounds like someone who is willing to > > >consider novel approaches. As you may know, I work for "GP" which is > > >one of the three weekly newspapers which is distributed free to > > >general practitioners. We are always on the lookout for GPs who are > > >willing to try something unorthodox, so perhaps the next time you > > >speak to her you could ask her to get in touch with us. > > > > What, to have you attack and slate her in a public forum as you do me? > > Now, you may just be cutting off your own nose here, Ian. > > Nor will I refer the GPs I know with shamnic experience, as you have > > presented yourself as far too vicious. > > "Vicious" and "Ian" were two words I would never have expected to see > paired. :) > True. "Others" can and are much more suited to the "vicious" word. > > It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven > if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney Well, at least Paul doesn't annoy me ;) > > My homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html > > The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html > > The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 47 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:45:53 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:48:00 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73187 "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message news:MPG.16481260706bb5469896e0@news.lineone.net... > In article <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:32:59 -0000, Ian H Spedding > > wrote: > > >> > > > >The fact that there is no satisfactory scientific explanation as yet > > >is a gap in our understanding that does not necessarily require a God > > >to fill it. > > > > Satisfactory to whom? To you? Or to some concensus of the hierarchy of > > your sceptic chums? Truth is only ever a concensus based on context. > > This speech of yours sounds as though you think your opinions are > > enough to play God with. Well, I don't. I'll carry on looking for my > > own god and when I find him or her I'll be sure to let you know the > > website address. > > A consensus view is not necessarily the truth, as in the well-worn > example of a majority of people in the distant past assuming that the > world was flat. Even scientist following the "scientific methods"? > > There are many different explanations about how the world, or parts of > it, work. Some are contradictory. They could only be equally true if > there is no real world to check them against. If there is a real > world, some of these explanations must be more accurate than others. > Some of them are just plain wrong. How do we find out which is which? > We look for the evidence and we test them, in other words we apply the > scientific method. What is wrong with that? I don't find anything wrong with that as long as you are open to some of the answers, even following the scientific method, can and most likely at times, will be wrong. ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 35 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:49:04 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:51:10 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator-la!news-in-la.newsfeeds.com!cyclone.bc.net!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73188 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.1647b11410117c87989d72@news.starlinx.com... > In article <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > Janice, do you think that feeling of electrical current you felt in > > kundalini is the same or somehow related to the electrical feeling felt in > > OOB experiences? I know my head buzzing, swirling, sensation feels to be > > very electrical although hard to really explain. > > I don't know. Patricia Garfield thought the two were essentially the > same thing, but as I mentioned, offhand I don't remember my OBE/SP vibes > getting any stronger when I had the daily strong "kundalini" sensation, > which you would think would happen if they were the same. Do you get that head swirling, buzz, hum, thing going on in OBE? > > > > The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter > > > is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan > > > > I just don't like that Bob Dylan quote for some reason. It bothers me. LOL > > Why is that ? Change it! Grrrrrrrrrr > > I'll change it soon. But I'm going to be using weird lines from songs > for the foreseeable future. :) > Why's that? Just curious. I think it's just Bob Dylan that annoys me... lol ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 54 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:52:08 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:54:14 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!64.152.100.70.MISMATCH!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73193 "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message news:MPG.1648132bb9ea638f9896e2@news.lineone.net... > In article <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > "Janice" wrote in message > > news:MPG.164666df84bd0e8a989d5c@news.starlinx.com... > > > In article , > > > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > > > In article , not-me@not- > > > > here.net says... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am calling it a *feeling* of an electrical current, because that is > > > what it *felt* like. I am not calling it a literal electrical current > > > (though of course the nervous system does function electrochemically). > > > Some people do think of "kundalini" as an actual kind of energy, but I'm > > > inclined to think that the nervous system may be oversensitized for some > > > reason as an effect of these experiences and not necessarily more active. > > > > > > As I've mentioned, after what I went through no one is f*cking going to > > > get me to try to replicate this experience so it can be tested. I did > > > once talk to a man who said he had an EEG while in the midst of a > > > "kundlini" crisis. Too his surprise nothing abnormal showed up. Of > > > course an EEG may not have had the best test for the job. > > > > Janice, do you think that feeling of electrical current you felt in > > kundalini is the same or somehow related to the electrical feeling felt in > > OOB experiences? I know my head buzzing, swirling, sensation feels to be > > very electrical although hard to really explain. > > The other thing, is it AC or DC?:) > Hey! Be serious or I'll have the Queen punish you! Really though, Ian. have you ever experienced that electrical feeling? Kind of like when you accidently touch a light socket and you get that little zap. But it last longer and your head swirls (inside, not literally like in the Exorcist..lol) It really is hard to explain but I know it definitely happens and is a definoite part of most all my truest feeling OOB experiences. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-nU9u/VUq5gu+MpXiz3lCgP0SrCM8hk94siCg/+3C4vFr2bfiEiz Lines: 46 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:30:07 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-5sc5RgBaVjtLPB5gzeFcwOorjr9gX3XgDTCsemJnlfcsEO+DW8MBb9tTL6MRC65F7jMnEpndiWXebFT!LYqC1ZYQIn6GhVRvwLjdhzoloF0+O2Gqv7lsDhZL4935zboI7F/Eh58NsDQqjcXBTENHM7gPM/mS!vbsPQNnwfNUbiCBbu2G6zQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:30:07 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!feed.cgocable.net!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!easynews!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73249 In article , lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > "Janice" wrote in message > news:MPG.1647b11410117c87989d72@news.starlinx.com... > > In article <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, > > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > > Janice, do you think that feeling of electrical current you felt in > > > kundalini is the same or somehow related to the electrical feeling felt > in > > > OOB experiences? I know my head buzzing, swirling, sensation feels to be > > > very electrical although hard to really explain. > > > > I don't know. Patricia Garfield thought the two were essentially the > > same thing, but as I mentioned, offhand I don't remember my OBE/SP vibes > > getting any stronger when I had the daily strong "kundalini" sensation, > > which you would think would happen if they were the same. > > Do you get that head swirling, buzz, hum, thing going on in OBE? I've had buzzing and humming and vibes, but not the head swirling. Used to get all that a lot more often and stronger in the early days but it gradually got better, just as Jerry Gross says, LOL. ;) > > I'll change it soon. But I'm going to be using weird lines from songs > > for the foreseeable future. :) > > Why's that? Just curious. I think it's just Bob Dylan that annoys me... lol Just a funny idea I had for sig files now that I'm about out of Despair quotes. -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-1K798OHxCs3tGBNKHDSheIT6k+s2OO/Yj9a+KPN8QBUwA2P+kLw Lines: 38 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 12:51:31 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-LYAIeFUk5a7GglW4/LDeIgnlrfglJq8oQlNIxBU8pxanI+rIo8hPNqHPPeEbvmdq6fUIPabShGBom+5!HpvOKxpBJRrNoVEeFJe4kfRRdvu0B5569u2q7FDiD06Wgs8QiXlFNoS5IAOyHGpcnZcH/2mQDVXn!Vu0n3H4mVruzQKQcjANG1w== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:51:31 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!torn!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73233 In article , lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message > news:MPG.1648132bb9ea638f9896e2@news.lineone.net... > > > The other thing, is it AC or DC?:) > > Hey! Be serious or I'll have the Queen punish you! > Really though, Ian. have you ever experienced that electrical feeling? Kind > of like when you accidently touch a light socket and you get that little > zap. But it last longer and your head swirls (inside, not literally like in > the Exorcist..lol) It really is hard to explain but I know it definitely > happens and is a definoite part of most all my truest feeling OOB > experiences. When I was in junior high school the science teacher had us stand in a ring round the room holding hands, then he generated an electrical current somehow with a rotary pencil sharpener so we could all feel it conducted through the human circuit we made. The "kundalini" current sensation felt similar to that but stronger, at least initially (again, I'm not claiming that it had to be a real current). The SP vibey current sensation I've had isn't as strong; it's not so different from what I feel if I tense up all my muscles and hold them that way for a bit. -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 58 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:11:07 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:13:13 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!cyclone.bc.net!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73260 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.1648c0bb55e010b1989d80@news.starlinx.com... > In article , > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message > > news:MPG.1648132bb9ea638f9896e2@news.lineone.net... > > > > > The other thing, is it AC or DC?:) > > > > Hey! Be serious or I'll have the Queen punish you! > > Really though, Ian. have you ever experienced that electrical feeling? Kind > > of like when you accidently touch a light socket and you get that little > > zap. But it last longer and your head swirls (inside, not literally like in > > the Exorcist..lol) It really is hard to explain but I know it definitely > > happens and is a definoite part of most all my truest feeling OOB > > experiences. > > When I was in junior high school the science teacher had us stand in a > ring round the room holding hands, then he generated an electrical > current somehow with a rotary pencil sharpener so we could all feel it > conducted through the human circuit we made. Funny. That reminds me of when we went on cruise. One stop at Playa Del Carmen at 'Senor Frog's' a touristy bar/restaraunt there. The waiters come around (after they have seen you had a few margarita's) they formed about 5 or 6 of us in a circle and we either held hands or ears or wherever you wanted to touch each other and they raised this current higher and higher and it would go through us all. Starting real light and tingly to what felt extremely electrical and intense to where you almost couldn't even let go of each other. LOL.... Seemed like fun at the time. We actually did this 4 or 5 times. Still don't know what that thing was? Actually forgot about it till now. It didn't remind me of the electrical sensation of OBE though. Although it started sorta tingly and vibey, it felt more intense and almost painful. The electrical sensation I get with OOB experiences doesnt seem quite as intense and isnt painful at all while the vibrations do feel intense. Strange. Hard to explain. >The "kundalini" current > sensation felt similar to that but stronger, at least initially (again, > I'm not claiming that it had to be a real current). The SP vibey current > sensation I've had isn't as strong; it's not so different from what I > feel if I tense up all my muscles and hold them that way for a bit. > OK I see. I know if I exersize a lot and use weights and really push it my muscles will get tensed up I would think how you are describing tensing up your muscles and holding them. I hadn't thought about it before but yeah that feels kind of like the early vibey sensations. Perhaps the sleep paralysis makes the muscles so tense when trying to snap out of it that causes these sensations? ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: 30 Oct 2001 12:20:05 -0800 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 30 Message-ID: <9rn21l02vs2@drn.newsguy.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> <8ZyD7.85457$B3.2474005@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-668.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.90 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73197 In message-id <8ZyD7.85457$B3.2474005@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, "lorz" wrote: > > >"Julia Hawkes-Moore" wrote in message >news:3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com... >> On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:48 -0000, Ian H Spedding >> wrote: >> >I don't think general practitioners have the power to commit people to >> >asylums. What they can do is "section" them. This means that under >> >one of the sections of the Mental Health Act they can have >> >vulnerable patients detained in a psychological ward temporarily while >> >a more detailed assessment of their condition is made, although I >> >think even this requires the agreement of another competent person >> >such as a social worker. >> >> Ys, the technical word I coldn't remember was 'section'. It must be >> wonderful to have a such a large vocabulary as yours. > >LOL. Did get a bit technical there. Reminded me of a Sherilyn answer. (No >offense Sher) > On the contrary, I take it as a compliment that you should compare Ian's concise and, as far as I'm aware, accurate response, to my own scribblings. -- Sherilyn|NOTE: The real Sherilyn has nothing against anonymous remailers, but she does not use them. http://www.sherilyn.org.uk/ The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send me unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-Sjg4db1mvCG6L8c3hctIM6IvdXtiI5qTfOhNOEBl5D+Q1sViERO Lines: 73 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:28:10 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-6Ou2Q/bMKQr3+CWDPd0b5AgOg4vFSQCErfn88XGyw2+K+16NaXfvpWcdDoh88YXoy7tEMt/m2KcB1qi!lJRdh4aFGiuyqIQO2OSVA4W4NC2sYtUTCLE546JVOkimJCiYgTHbRAv8F91S69ya8Cv5QQ2TD1c2!MbRK+p1d1pGF3+rWtLQ5Iw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 20:28:10 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73223 In article , lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > "Janice" wrote in message > news:MPG.1648c0bb55e010b1989d80@news.starlinx.com... > > When I was in junior high school the science teacher had us stand in a > > ring round the room holding hands, then he generated an electrical > > current somehow with a rotary pencil sharpener so we could all feel it > > conducted through the human circuit we made. > > Funny. That reminds me of when we went on cruise. One stop at Playa Del > Carmen at 'Senor Frog's' a touristy bar/restaraunt there. The waiters come > around (after they have seen you had a few margarita's) they formed about 5 > or 6 of us in a circle and we either held hands or ears or wherever you > wanted to touch each other and they raised this current higher and higher > and it would go through us all. Starting real light and tingly to what felt > extremely electrical and intense to where you almost couldn't even let go of > each other. LOL.... Seemed like fun at the time. We actually did this 4 or > 5 times. Still don't know what that thing was? Actually forgot about it > till now. Doesn't sound like much fun to me. I think our teacher spun the pencil sharpener device at different rates too, to give us different intensities of current. Can't remember if anyone's hair stood up. :) > It didn't remind me of the electrical sensation of OBE though. Although it > started sorta tingly and vibey, it felt more intense and almost painful. > The electrical sensation I get with OOB experiences doesnt seem quite as > intense and isnt painful at all while the vibrations do feel intense. > Strange. Hard to explain. I can imagine it though. > >The "kundalini" current > > sensation felt similar to that but stronger, at least initially (again, > > I'm not claiming that it had to be a real current). The SP vibey current > > sensation I've had isn't as strong; it's not so different from what I > > feel if I tense up all my muscles and hold them that way for a bit. > > OK I see. I know if I exersize a lot and use weights and really push it my > muscles will get tensed up I would think how you are describing tensing up > your muscles and holding them. You can do it just sitting in your chair. Stick your arms out straight and tense them up as if you were pushing against something. > I hadn't thought about it before but yeah > that feels kind of like the early vibey sensations. Perhaps the sleep > paralysis makes the muscles so tense when trying to snap out of it that > causes these sensations? I don't think the muscles can be tense in sleep paralysis because there's a loss of muscle tone when we sleep. But that loss of muscle tone itself impedes movement and in REM there's the additional impediment of a motor output block preventing movement commands from reaching your muscles so maybe the sensation does relate somehow to trying to move when you can't. It always got worse for me when I struggled to wake up and eased up if I "went with the flow" (I know you tried that without much success tho). -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:20:33 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bde82e2.4683957@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 30 Oct 2001 23:16:43 GMT, host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73207 In article <3bde82e2.4683957@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:46 -0000, Ian H Spedding > wrote: > >Most inventions did not emerge from the minds of fiction writers. > > Bullshit. Go read up on Arthur C Clarke. > Gene Rodney has a fair few to answer for, too. I said most not all. Arthur C Clarke is a scientist as well as an author and if by "Gene Rodney" you mean Gene Roddenberry he didn't invent anything - apart from Star Trek. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:20:35 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 30 Oct 2001 23:16:44 GMT, host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 46 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73209 In article <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:48 -0000, Ian H Spedding > wrote: > >I don't think general practitioners have the power to commit people to > >asylums. What they can do is "section" them. This means that under > >one of the sections of the Mental Health Act they can have > >vulnerable patients detained in a psychological ward temporarily while > >a more detailed assessment of their condition is made, although I > >think even this requires the agreement of another competent person > >such as a social worker. > > Ys, the technical word I coldn't remember was 'section'. It must be > wonderful to have a such a large vocabulary as yours. I only know about it because it happens to be part of the field in which I work. > >Having said that, your doctor sounds like someone who is willing to > >consider novel approaches. As you may know, I work for "GP" which is > >one of the three weekly newspapers which is distributed free to > >general practitioners. We are always on the lookout for GPs who are > >willing to try something unorthodox, so perhaps the next time you > >speak to her you could ask her to get in touch with us. > > What, to have you attack and slate her in a public forum as you do me? > Now, you may just be cutting off your own nose here, Ian. > Nor will I refer the GPs I know with shamnic experience, as you have > presented yourself as far too vicious. As you wish, although I think you should leave it up to her. I should point out that I wouldn't be writing about her, that would be for the journalists on the paper and they tend not to attack their readership. It's bad for business. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:20:36 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 30 Oct 2001 23:16:45 GMT, host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 34 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73206 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:48 -0000, Ian H Spedding > > wrote: > > > > >Having said that, your doctor sounds like someone who is willing to > > >consider novel approaches. As you may know, I work for "GP" which is > > >one of the three weekly newspapers which is distributed free to > > >general practitioners. We are always on the lookout for GPs who are > > >willing to try something unorthodox, so perhaps the next time you > > >speak to her you could ask her to get in touch with us. > > > > What, to have you attack and slate her in a public forum as you do me? > > Now, you may just be cutting off your own nose here, Ian. > > Nor will I refer the GPs I know with shamnic experience, as you have > > presented yourself as far too vicious. > > "Vicious" and "Ian" were two words I would never have expected to see > paired. :) "Ian Vicious"? Nah, I can't really see myself as a punk-rocker.:) Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:20:37 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> <9ZyD7.85458$B3.2474005@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 30 Oct 2001 23:16:46 GMT, host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 40 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73217 In article <9ZyD7.85458$B3.2474005@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > "Janice" wrote in message > news:MPG.16485fa422197ff989d7c@news.starlinx.com... > > In article <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:48 -0000, Ian H Spedding > > > wrote: > > > > > > >Having said that, your doctor sounds like someone who is willing to > > > >consider novel approaches. As you may know, I work for "GP" which is > > > >one of the three weekly newspapers which is distributed free to > > > >general practitioners. We are always on the lookout for GPs who are > > > >willing to try something unorthodox, so perhaps the next time you > > > >speak to her you could ask her to get in touch with us. > > > > > > What, to have you attack and slate her in a public forum as you do me? > > > Now, you may just be cutting off your own nose here, Ian. > > > Nor will I refer the GPs I know with shamnic experience, as you have > > > presented yourself as far too vicious. > > > > "Vicious" and "Ian" were two words I would never have expected to see > > paired. :) > > > > True. "Others" can and are much more suited to the "vicious" word. I really can't imagine who you could be talking about. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:20:38 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> <8ZyD7.85457$B3.2474005@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 30 Oct 2001 23:16:46 GMT, host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73210 In article <8ZyD7.85457$B3.2474005@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > "Julia Hawkes-Moore" wrote in message > news:3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com... > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:48 -0000, Ian H Spedding > > wrote: > > >I don't think general practitioners have the power to commit people to > > >asylums. What they can do is "section" them. This means that under > > >one of the sections of the Mental Health Act they can have > > >vulnerable patients detained in a psychological ward temporarily while > > >a more detailed assessment of their condition is made, although I > > >think even this requires the agreement of another competent person > > >such as a social worker. > > > > Ys, the technical word I coldn't remember was 'section'. It must be > > wonderful to have a such a large vocabulary as yours. > > LOL. Did get a bit technical there. Reminded me of a Sherilyn answer. (No > offense Sher) Hey, I didn't mention Proust at all! Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:20:39 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 30 Oct 2001 23:16:47 GMT, host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 32 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!andromeda.datanet.hu!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73205 In article <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:49 -0000, Ian H Spedding > wrote: [...] > >A consensus view is not necessarily the truth, as in the well-worn > >example of a majority of people in the distant past assuming that the > >world was flat. > > It was the truth to that particular group of people, as I made clear > in my post. Start listening and stop thinking. You might learn > something. But their belief that it was true didn't make it true. That's the whole point. When a few of the smarter people took a closer look at the idea they began to notice the little clues that suggested the Earth was round. [...] Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:20:40 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 30 Oct 2001 23:16:48 GMT, host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 69 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73208 In article , lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message > news:MPG.16481260706bb5469896e0@news.lineone.net... > > In article <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > > On Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:32:59 -0000, Ian H Spedding > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >The fact that there is no satisfactory scientific explanation as yet > > > >is a gap in our understanding that does not necessarily require a God > > > >to fill it. > > > > > > Satisfactory to whom? To you? Or to some concensus of the hierarchy of > > > your sceptic chums? Truth is only ever a concensus based on context. > > > This speech of yours sounds as though you think your opinions are > > > enough to play God with. Well, I don't. I'll carry on looking for my > > > own god and when I find him or her I'll be sure to let you know the > > > website address. > > > > A consensus view is not necessarily the truth, as in the well-worn > > example of a majority of people in the distant past assuming that the > > world was flat. > > > Even scientist following the "scientific methods"? Especially scientists following the scientific method. They will reach a consensus that, on the evidence, a particular theory is the best one available but part of the scientific method is to find the limits of the theory. Scientists constantly probe to find the point at which the theory breaks down because that shows where it needs to be revised or even that it needs to be replaced. It's one of the reasons why science, unlike religions, leads on to new knowledge or better understanding rather than stagnating through the uncritical acceptance of received "wisdom". > > There are many different explanations about how the world, or parts of > > it, work. Some are contradictory. They could only be equally true if > > there is no real world to check them against. If there is a real > > world, some of these explanations must be more accurate than others. > > Some of them are just plain wrong. How do we find out which is which? > > We look for the evidence and we test them, in other words we apply the > > scientific method. What is wrong with that? > > I don't find anything wrong with that as long as you are open to some of the > answers, even following the scientific method, can and most likely at times, > will be wrong. Of course. Science recognises that even the best explanations are incomplete. They're only the best in the sense that they are the best available at the time. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:20:41 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 30 Oct 2001 23:16:50 GMT, host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 73 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73215 In article , lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message > news:MPG.1648132bb9ea638f9896e2@news.lineone.net... > > In article <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, > > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > > > "Janice" wrote in message > > > news:MPG.164666df84bd0e8a989d5c@news.starlinx.com... > > > > In article , > > > > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > > > > In article , > not-me@not- > > > > > here.net says... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I am calling it a *feeling* of an electrical current, because that is > > > > what it *felt* like. I am not calling it a literal electrical current > > > > (though of course the nervous system does function electrochemically). > > > > Some people do think of "kundalini" as an actual kind of energy, but > I'm > > > > inclined to think that the nervous system may be oversensitized for > some > > > > reason as an effect of these experiences and not necessarily more > active. > > > > > > > > As I've mentioned, after what I went through no one is f*cking going > to > > > > get me to try to replicate this experience so it can be tested. I did > > > > once talk to a man who said he had an EEG while in the midst of a > > > > "kundlini" crisis. Too his surprise nothing abnormal showed up. Of > > > > course an EEG may not have had the best test for the job. > > > > > > Janice, do you think that feeling of electrical current you felt in > > > kundalini is the same or somehow related to the electrical feeling felt > in > > > OOB experiences? I know my head buzzing, swirling, sensation feels to be > > > very electrical although hard to really explain. > > > > The other thing, is it AC or DC?:) > > > > Hey! Be serious or I'll have the Queen punish you! > Really though, Ian. have you ever experienced that electrical feeling? Kind > of like when you accidently touch a light socket and you get that little > zap. But it last longer and your head swirls (inside, not literally like in > the Exorcist..lol) It really is hard to explain but I know it definitely > happens and is a definoite part of most all my truest feeling OOB > experiences. The only time I accidentally got a shock was from an old light switch in a garden shed. It had got damp overnight and there must have been a crack in the insulation. I got a sharp, vibrating jolt up my arm. Is that the sort of thing you mean? The nearest other experience to that is the sudden jerks that I was getting as I was on the point of falling asleep. The sudden spasm of the abdominal muscles felt similar, although not as violent. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:20:42 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 30 Oct 2001 23:16:51 GMT, host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 70 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!195.158.233.21!news1.ebone.net!news.ebone.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73218 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article , > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > In article , not-me@not- > > here.net says... > > > In article , > > > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > > > In article , not-me@not- > > > > here.net says... > > > > > > > > > > The experience itself is fantastical enough! Cutting through the added > > > > > layers of interpretation, as I'm sure you've tried to do, do you have any > > > > > insights, Ian, about the baseline experience? Have you come across any > > > > > mention of sensations of powerful electrical currents in your reading > > > > > about depression? > > > > > > > > I don't have any penetrating insights to offer, I'm afraid. It isn't > > > > listed as part of the pathology of depression as far as I'm aware, > > > > although I suppose there could be a connection to bipolar disorder. > > > > > > Or perhaps to anxiety neurosis. In my case extreme anxiety was part of > > > the initial experience and a subsequent period of anxiety preceded and > > > merged into the eventual depression. > > > > It's possible to give a biochemical explanation in terms of > > neurotransmitter imbalance for that part of the experience, at least. > > I suspect so. I'd like to know what that imbalance is, though. High > what? Low what? Good question. We need someone with a detailed knowledge of neurotransmitter activity to answer it. > > > > The only thing that occurs to me is that, as described, it sounds more > > > > like a phenomenon of sensation rather than mentation or, to use > > > > another analogy, partly like interference affecting radio reception. > > > > This idea of an upsurge of random 'noise' somewhere in the nervous > > > > system makes me wonder if the phenomenon is related to epilepsy. > > > > > > If so at least it didn't give me convulsions. :) > > > > Judging from your description, you had enough to cope with without > > convulsions. The milder form of epilepsy or perhaps the precursor > > state to convulsions is what I was thinking of. > > The "aura"? That's it. > > I was also wondering > > about the hypothesis that epileptic fits are actually induced by the > > brain as a means of trying to break out of mental or behavioural > > 'loops' that have become established in part of the brain. > > I don't know enough about that to comment intelligently. Me either. It just sounded like an interesting idea. I read about it in a New Scientist. If I can track it down I'll post the URL. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:25:55 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 30 Oct 2001 23:22:03 GMT, host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 41 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-120-137-62.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73213 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article , > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > "Janice" wrote in message > > news:MPG.1648c0bb55e010b1989d80@news.starlinx.com... > > > > When I was in junior high school the science teacher had us stand in a > > > ring round the room holding hands, then he generated an electrical > > > current somehow with a rotary pencil sharpener so we could all feel it > > > conducted through the human circuit we made. > > > > Funny. That reminds me of when we went on cruise. One stop at Playa Del > > Carmen at 'Senor Frog's' a touristy bar/restaraunt there. The waiters come > > around (after they have seen you had a few margarita's) they formed about 5 > > or 6 of us in a circle and we either held hands or ears or wherever you > > wanted to touch each other and they raised this current higher and higher > > and it would go through us all. Starting real light and tingly to what felt > > extremely electrical and intense to where you almost couldn't even let go of > > each other. LOL.... Seemed like fun at the time. We actually did this 4 or > > 5 times. Still don't know what that thing was? Actually forgot about it > > till now. > > Doesn't sound like much fun to me. I think our teacher spun the pencil > sharpener device at different rates too, to give us different intensities > of current. Can't remember if anyone's hair stood up. :) I remember doing that at school, as well. I think the device that was used to generate the current was called a Wimshurst(sp?) machine. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bdf3411.370306@news.ntlworld.com> References: <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde8140.4266010@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 9 Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:30:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.96.53 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004484655 62.255.96.53 (Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:30:55 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:30:55 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73198 On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:42:06 GMT, Janice wrote: >I didn't have any friends at the time, except some pen-pals. Mr. >Magician aside, the ones I was closest to tried to be helpful. One sent >me a tape of her trained parakeet reciting "Pease Porridge Hot" and other >nonsense, which was funny enough to make me smile even in that state. :) Hahhhaaa : ) She was a friend indeed. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bdf3475.470387@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bde82e2.4683957@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 17 Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:30:24 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.96.53 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004484658 62.255.96.53 (Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:30:58 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:30:58 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73200 On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:03:51 GMT, julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote: >On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:46 -0000, Ian H Spedding > wrote: >>Most inventions did not emerge from the minds of fiction writers. > >Bullshit. Go read up on Arthur C Clarke. >Gene Rodney has a fair few to answer for, too. ummm.... I think that word was actually Roddenberry... Okay, I withdraw the 'vicious word' I'm sorry. I've had a hard week. Pisa was fun, though, and as for Florence... Coooo. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: <3bdf356d.718353@news.ntlworld.com> References: <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 33 Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:30:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.96.53 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1004484660 62.255.96.53 (Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:31:00 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:31:00 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73202 On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:13:13 -0500, "lorz" wrote: >> > Really though, Ian. have you ever experienced that electrical feeling? >Kind >> > of like when you accidently touch a light socket and you get that little >> > zap. But it last longer and your head swirls (inside, not literally like >in >> > the Exorcist..lol) It really is hard to explain but I know it definitely >> > happens and is a definoite part of most all my truest feeling OOB >> > experiences. plus a series of very exciting electrical sensations... Lorene, don't tempt me! You must remember how excited I get when there is a discussion about minor forms of electrocution... When I was six and bounced up and licked the end of the electric cable protruding from the wall, and was thrown back onto the bed. Then it was my little sister's turn. That went on for hours... There was the time when the Young Farmer grasped the ac current electric fence and stood sweatinmg and pulsing , looking at me and trying to coax me to touch him... Or the tingle from the end of a mobile phone recharger in your mouth... Or the damp weather which made the entire west wall of our holiday house become electrified, and I could stand up in bed and spread myself all over the bedroom wall... But no, never felt that kind of electric surge in obe. Perhaps that's what I'm looking for? Love from julia Julia ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bd91718.4052847@news.ntlworld.com> <3bd9e029.1148881@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 51 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:51:14 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.11 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004485772 216.241.33.11 (Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:49:32 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:49:32 MST Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanjose!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!206.13.28.125!cyclone-transit.snfc21.pbi.net!216.218.192.242!news.he.net!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73239 Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message news:3bd9e029.1148881@news.ntlworld.com... > On Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:07:02 GMT, Janice wrote: > >The pituitary. > > Yup, that one. > > >This sounds rather more dramatic than garden-variety bruxism, which might > >be all that Leo meant ... > > Leo? How long is your tongue? > It is, however, the explanation for why you see film and photos of > wildhaired naked gurus in India sticking their tongues out to touch > the tip of their chins. It is a display of power and status ever bit > as showy as a silk suit and Rolex watch. A lot of imagery of the > fiercer variety of gods and goddesses includes prominent tongues. > Coincidentally my shaman has no connecting tissue beneath his tongue, > although he blames it on a car accident when he was 4. He has no > excuse for the webbed toes, though.... > > >> A flow of 'nectar' is released which provides inner psychic > >> sustenance. People can stop eating at this point, often for months or > >> years in rarefied conditions (ie sitting silently meditating > >> permanently and being looked after - it is not the latest fad diet!). > >> This happens spontaneously in meditation, in class during Tibetan > >> Pulsing, or to Californian Instant Karmacists who use knives to slash > >> the tongue and upper palate. > > > >Eew, gross. :) > > Isn't it? I've seen photos of people who have slit their tongues > lengthwise with scissors, for dramatic effect but possibly not for > spiritual purposes. And these tricks are every bit as daft as > trepanning the skull over the third eye, another popular New Age > self-mutilation in certain circles. > Honestly, the lengths people push themselves to... What was that > Groucho Marx said about never joining a club which would have him as a > member? Actually that was Woody Allen in "Annie Hall". Ken (Nice club in Soho called after him, though...Good oil > paintings.) > > Love from Julia. > Julia ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 62 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:21:42 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.11 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004487601 216.241.33.11 (Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:20:01 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 17:20:01 MST Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!209.98.98.64!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73247 Janice wrote in message news:MPG.1647baffc00eb859989d74@news.starlinx.com... > In article , pzm@mac.com > says... > > In article , > > Janice wrote: > > > > I do find it a bit strange that Ian felt a need to interject in this way. > > > I may be wrong but I think everyone participating in this thread has the > > > basic intellectual skill of being able to read something written from a > > > viewpoint other than their own and see that the writer was working from > > > the perspective of a particular belief system without the writer having > > > to explicitly qualify everything they say as such. > > > > Yes. Now we just have to get it into everyone's heads that some belief > > systems are better than other belief systems; this deplorable po-mo > > doctrine of extreme relativism in which everyone's beliefs are just as > > valid as everyone elses has got to be expunged. > > > > At least a good chunk of Ian's personal philosophic and religious beliefs > > avoid outright conflict with objective reality, which is much more than > > can be said for Julia's. > > Whether all belief systems are created equal or not they do have an equal > right to be expressed here, a right I believe you've said you respect, > especially since it means you can express your own opinion. Ian on the > other hand asked us to attempt to constrain the discussion to within > bounds he finds acceptable: 'By all means discuss this so-called > "kundalini phenomenon" but at least try to do so on the basis of what we > have learnt so far about the way the Universe works.' Critiquing other > people's theories I don't mind; attempting to set the terms for their > expression I do mind, particularly when I am finding reading about them > interesting--which is NOT the same thing as believing that they are > equally valid. > :) Ken > -- > > The only thing we knew for sure about Henry Porter > is that his name wasn't Henry Porter.--Bob Dylan > > My homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html > > The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html > > The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 00:35:12 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-1-124-245.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 31 Oct 2001 00:31:21 GMT, host213-1-124-245.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 47 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-1-124-245.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73235 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article , > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > "Janice" wrote in message > > news:MPG.1648c0bb55e010b1989d80@news.starlinx.com... > > > > When I was in junior high school the science teacher had us stand in a > > > ring round the room holding hands, then he generated an electrical > > > current somehow with a rotary pencil sharpener so we could all feel it > > > conducted through the human circuit we made. > > > > Funny. That reminds me of when we went on cruise. One stop at Playa Del > > Carmen at 'Senor Frog's' a touristy bar/restaraunt there. The waiters come > > around (after they have seen you had a few margarita's) they formed about 5 > > or 6 of us in a circle and we either held hands or ears or wherever you > > wanted to touch each other and they raised this current higher and higher > > and it would go through us all. Starting real light and tingly to what felt > > extremely electrical and intense to where you almost couldn't even let go of > > each other. LOL.... Seemed like fun at the time. We actually did this 4 or > > 5 times. Still don't know what that thing was? Actually forgot about it > > till now. > > Doesn't sound like much fun to me. I think our teacher spun the pencil > sharpener device at different rates too, to give us different intensities > of current. Can't remember if anyone's hair stood up. :) Actually, that reminds me of a story my father told me of an 'experience' he had during WWII when he was in the Army. As part of his training, he was sent on a cross-country assault course. Crossing a field, he felt the need to relieve himself so he went over to the fence at the side of the field. Unfortunately, he didn't realise, until it was too late, that the fence was electrified. Fortunately, the current wasn't very strong, otherwise I wouldn't be here to write about it. ;) Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-oBmm5MQbX7ylXDXsqXiDO8b+TNmSLVQMq1Hw+YqOhstJOqwqhJL Lines: 38 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:36:15 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-sLGjkPGZwVKvRJj7h1tOcQmQgY/02otwxg4Qk2nzlqauNsgDwrX4cS1lmH2DhpQGcaqVeo3+13aCLHB!E2QrfAlBPAmFl+gz0q67Rq5ec+ah+m6jRMvYxQ4VbxEaBg5O8u4Vwz/J+xUZJ+m+V07GZD1tHK1+!43HKqre6HucIGbJo9ZIfRA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:36:15 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73240 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > In article <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:49 -0000, Ian H Spedding > > wrote: > > [...] > > > >A consensus view is not necessarily the truth, as in the well-worn > > >example of a majority of people in the distant past assuming that the > > >world was flat. > > > > It was the truth to that particular group of people, as I made clear > > in my post. Start listening and stop thinking. You might learn > > something. > > But their belief that it was true didn't make it true. That's the > whole point. When a few of the smarter people took a closer look at > the idea they began to notice the little clues that suggested the > Earth was round. I thought the idea that upon a time most people thought the world was flat was itself a myth? ;-) -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-9yDzVUnKb9DPLBHhm/1lFDizXT5axmc9n50ynuBmwk/yd8Ag4hA Lines: 35 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:40:56 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-HYw6xQvjzz4Td5Ytf1eqPrrrbzf36MKJWm5hb+phTuxaMUuZ9Hd32EEeHvVXmzwBr1aUioqTdN91flO!G3ZwxaoyptjzOYBSDioocieJiX4vRAHA13IrIS7Lu0mOygH5RaFmXFJteDhpIOifBvE0dm9BdATD!rBHkWnLQLSHN4qaLNbYKMQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:40:56 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!news-west.rr.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73238 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > In article , > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > The only time I accidentally got a shock was from an old light switch > in a garden shed. It had got damp overnight and there must have been > a crack in the insulation. I got a sharp, vibrating jolt up my arm. > Is that the sort of thing you mean? I can't speak for Lorene's electrical sensations but neither my "kundalini" sensation nor the buzzy feeling in SP ever felt like shocks (I've had one or two of those while handling old appliance plugs). > The nearest other experience to that is the sudden jerks that I was > getting as I was on the point of falling asleep. The sudden spasm of > the abdominal muscles felt similar, although not as violent. I had those a lot while ill. They were stronger then than they usually are for me and felt very much like shocks, but not much like the current sensation per se. -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-7YxOWXSyRljYzf+IwJbCsenxVSso/VjRt8NbMWUQ0fvLlTIIJT6 Lines: 30 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:44:58 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-yMAm0RloJBFIkdz0GWtL/tV5L4qSBzTqHaqRHILdvOL96lTeZazI1Cav2KIO9BGOSXWevpJlNdPqerl!sqJlzh0mqA2I09esj6OmyuOrIv+FcC5i0gC2q/HVggiiscJzQ+nH0xRHQfw8l5DzUlLlAnZbbkkj!sF1PpFwLmtBPK7gLGZMTpQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:44:58 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.euro.net!news-xfer.siscom.net!216.166.61.6.MISMATCH!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73221 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > > "Janice" wrote in message > > > news:MPG.1648c0bb55e010b1989d80@news.starlinx.com... > > > > > > When I was in junior high school the science teacher had us stand in a > > > > ring round the room holding hands, then he generated an electrical > > > > current somehow with a rotary pencil sharpener so we could all feel it > > > > conducted through the human circuit we made. > > I remember doing that at school, as well. I think the device that was > used to generate the current was called a Wimshurst(sp?) machine. Well then you should have a rough idea of what an "electrical current sensation" would feel like. -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde8140.4266010@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdf3411.370306@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-EtisGFVPbmhnDrNQl/1wNIMxRzw3+Oj1A73N5R0fA3dQOc2GBgB Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:49:49 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-Cv47+c5mMPRqC+N8AuhfVea7KChZua4e6f5yVULc0KJEKevDHbyzMuLJysN/+cV/EMfaRLlaoo68yLh!RLuGSOIUBZs1TAedkX9WHtMvq7Hg1TYMiKtfRDWU8RlvvHFBOOjI5pTUTHCSN7DYs9n3tfcn0IXv!n/63oKn6g7wqPLXoH++64Q== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:49:49 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73216 In article <3bdf3411.370306@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 11:42:06 GMT, Janice wrote: > >I didn't have any friends at the time, except some pen-pals. Mr. > >Magician aside, the ones I was closest to tried to be helpful. One sent > >me a tape of her trained parakeet reciting "Pease Porridge Hot" and other > >nonsense, which was funny enough to make me smile even in that state. :) > > Hahhhaaa : ) She was a friend indeed. Yes, I still write and exchange gifts with her and one of the others from that time. The poor bird struggled with "Peter Piper Picked a Peck of Pickled Peppers" much like a person would. The recording quality is not good but if you can key into what the bird saying it's really quite hysterically funny. -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3bdf356d.718353@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-puP5v0Ma3/M0O66AXrcC07GaBrB7kek7BuuoW2d+i2vGJqvY0RU Lines: 40 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:52:31 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-h1iO4jb3rmjKwSYgGaRHD2fXQoFdFFJbxyZ/++LQMrk1s9WMAp55E2r/u8nBCxrwkaW+13pJ/ZwT67B!InBE62ymVE8u26bDnGfYLCpxAq0NUI28vZSKeBtypgguEnLs7ib2gMfAfCUrXci4UuPPaRAr3mja!TIYIpZxa1nKeQqPjCd3Vfg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:52:31 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!cleanfeed.casema.net!leda.casema.net!isdnet!btnet-peer1!btnet!novia!novia!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73226 In article <3bdf356d.718353@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > plus a series of very exciting electrical sensations... > Lorene, don't tempt me! You must remember how excited I get when there > is a discussion about minor forms of electrocution... > > When I was six and bounced up and licked the end of the electric cable > protruding from the wall, and was thrown back onto the bed. Then it > was my little sister's turn. That went on for hours... > > There was the time when the Young Farmer grasped the ac current > electric fence and stood sweatinmg and pulsing , looking at me and > trying to coax me to touch him... > > Or the tingle from the end of a mobile phone recharger in your > mouth... > > Or the damp weather which made the entire west wall of our holiday > house become electrified, and I could stand up in bed and spread > myself all over the bedroom wall... > > But no, never felt that kind of electric surge in obe. > Perhaps that's what I'm looking for? Oh, no. You really DO have Uncle Fester's Syndrome. ;) -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-IhGmVkNhxJ8UNdDMfS6zGRUBW3AZF+RTWvfTStnivi62MgkejR4 Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 20:02:22 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-km9Mn8T4ILfrI473ZrwzN2rP/WQsyE2k1mG3SLNKZQHOtIDtiRgxNWjYmL3YeaNCuFkzFlFXhoj3HX6!CE95jpCFHw1HXCBJEbMb1vt0RVFFJL1hL092Ni54DaBAXFkdej32BMwZLQd0yIFGY4Nrx0sjC4gC!Q66DqjflmkjW6sR+8dUhUw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 02:02:22 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73236 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > In article , not-me@not- > here.net says... > > "Vicious" and "Ian" were two words I would never have expected to see > > paired. :) > > "Ian Vicious"? Nah, I can't really see myself as a punk-rocker.:) Get out your clarinet! Perhaps you are destined to invent a new punk-Big Band fusion that will be the next discotheque sensation. -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bde82e2.4683957@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdf3475.470387@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-MVqSJSYIuPDMbAXF3knwF2y5o6pLqbPTD0dsJBuUWVZWVk+bpzy Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 20:35:54 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-lJQaxoNIX8+7JAHnQIQjCYbD77CnIOsKW1ZHDmqInjXY4koahsLYRjW46zMw4klRxGK+FItJuKxvRDq!TBbAPATN+e5zELv0ijTeH+c63+zw1CBk3xQ16Pg02ii35WHaGIi8LWLY6PkOi8HxzR9CBiwcUSCY!NXyaYG4bEau1+mEpoUy55A== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 02:35:55 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin2.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73232 In article <3bdf3475.470387@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > > Okay, I withdraw the 'vicious word' I'm sorry. I've had a hard week. > Pisa was fun, though, and as for Florence... > Coooo. > Love from Julia Ian is usually a sweetheart so I'm sure we can forgive him. -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <9rdbqn$ng4$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <%H1D7.200$j14.6928@wormhole.dimensional.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 53 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 03:02:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.26.165.37 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telisphere.com X-Trace: bcandid.telisphere.com 1004497352 208.26.165.37 (Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:02:32 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:02:32 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.nextra.ch!news.nextra.ch!nextra.at!newsfeed4.cidera.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!bcandid.telisphere.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73224 "The Original Ken" wrote in message news:%H1D7.200$j14.6928@wormhole.dimensional.com... > > dorothy wrote in message > news:NzZC7.28$gz3.52746@bcandid.telisphere.com... > > "The Original Ken" wrote in message > > news:dgQC7.184$j14.6598@wormhole.dimensional.com... > > > > > > Bart wrote in message > > > news:9rdbqn$ng4$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net... > > > > > > > > The Original Ken wrote in message ... > > > > >Do you suspect that the popular author that wrote the books > > > "Conversations > > > > >with God" was having a similar experience, or drug related, or bogus? > > > > > > > > > > > > Never read the books. It wouldn't surprise me that the author had a > > > similar > > > > experience. > > > > > > It's an interesting series. It became a best seller almost overnight > (no > > > doubt because of the title). Our library even carries the first book of > > the > > > series so I checked it out. I was surprised by some of it, but it may > > also > > > have been no more than just an accurate reflection of current popular > > > western beliefs about God. > > > > I've asked a friend who used to know the author 'back when'; I'll let you > > know what she says. > > Oh, absolutely. I'd be very interested in hearing what she says. I heard back from her today, but her answer is rather cryptic: "i guess he got his stuff from many sources but one in particular would have been people he did "sessions" with ... he is not your typical picture of a striving enlightened being" I asked her to clarify the bit about "sessions"; maybe there's something about that in his books? (Just guessing, since I haven't read them either.) Will let you know if I hear more. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-R239AgwsMGGjTMHuVrE/5f6sfOwfXB595xKnDnao9he/6giz3LV Lines: 51 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:32:55 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-Jv7qcr7fgWjZGcm3eC83Dwh7+JmVI+RZxBZB0ZtXD//e1EqLDnuRstdgMrIh3+9u/liTSsnQ1r9gvy9!TKr2PT/NbiRx4PKIpSHV4NwkbknkwTKZ3xiIVhTaYTxKQZzszzj6PzGxIWJwhesYguVtIqW/Chum!+1ZK62/1+8IIDxhUZhrFMw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 05:32:55 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73243 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > In article , not-me@not- > here.net says... > > In article , > > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > Janice wrote: > > > Or perhaps to anxiety neurosis. In my case extreme anxiety was part of > > > the initial experience and a subsequent period of anxiety preceded and > > > merged into the eventual depression. > > > It's possible to give a biochemical explanation in terms of > > > neurotransmitter imbalance for that part of the experience, at least. > > > > I suspect so. I'd like to know what that imbalance is, though. High > > what? Low what? > > Good question. We need someone with a detailed knowledge of > neurotransmitter activity to answer it. Whatever it was I suggested about neurotransmitters and kundalini in my book was the best guess I could come up with based on my very limited knowledge. > > > I was also wondering > > > about the hypothesis that epileptic fits are actually induced by the > > > brain as a means of trying to break out of mental or behavioural > > > 'loops' that have become established in part of the brain. > > > > I don't know enough about that to comment intelligently. > > Me either. It just sounded like an interesting idea. I read about it > in a New Scientist. If I can track it down I'll post the URL. Thanks. -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-CTQXH7vNDU7RdefrZfsUfRIdgUB5DCOlkt4d6o240GqMNuJwWUc Lines: 29 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 23:41:57 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-HikR97dng1iRGf3hBPwOSPL74ahpczfGPdy6TUBeHnLlHMEki3cfed55+bySWZ5mWM/0UqzanfruB4V!jkyrymsMHlBwlCryd14O04bx8p1pfXaP8JZUH4r6v+6rDOac0CUMxj1sJUijSsaDwPiLOKWREigo!XLq7mSivyXGg3Uj/GcfGVA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 05:41:57 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73231 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > I both expect and accept it as a normal human tendency that is generally > fairly harmless because most of us do learn to filter for it--at least > when the beliefs concerned are unappealing or otherwise unacceptable to > us. Yes, of course people can be swayed by it when suggestible for one > reason or another, but I don't think there's any serious danger of that > in this context. Though I confess there are occasions when even I can't resist getting confrontational about that sort of thing, one of which came up tonight when my poor beleaguered hubby asked for skeptical reinforcement against a presumptuous Jungian in another group. I'm sure His Malevolence would be delighted that the ways of evil overcame me. :) -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: David Mitchell Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:41:41 +0000 Organization: Paradise Computer Software Message-ID: <1004533967.7992.0.nnrp-07.c2de2739@news.demon.co.uk> References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com> Reply-To: david@edenroad.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: edenroad.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: edenroad.demon.co.uk:194.222.39.57 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1004533967 nnrp-07:7992 NO-IDENT edenroad.demon.co.uk:194.222.39.57 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net User-Agent: KNode/0.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Lines: 43 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!edenroad.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73253 Janice wrote: > In article , > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... >> In article <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- >> moore@ntlworld.com says... >> > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:49 -0000, Ian H Spedding >> > wrote: >> >> [...] >> >> > >A consensus view is not necessarily the truth, as in the well-worn >> > >example of a majority of people in the distant past assuming that the >> > >world was flat. >> > >> > It was the truth to that particular group of people, as I made clear >> > in my post. Start listening and stop thinking. You might learn >> > something. >> >> But their belief that it was true didn't make it true. That's the >> whole point. When a few of the smarter people took a closer look at >> the idea they began to notice the little clues that suggested the >> Earth was round. > > I thought the idea that upon a time most people thought the world was > flat was itself a myth? ;-) > Yes, you're correct. There was even a Greek chap (Hipparcos ?) who calculated the diameter of the Earth (quite accurately too) based on the different lengths of the shadow of a stick at different places at the same time. IIRC. They would also certainly have noticed that the moon was round; which might have at least given them a hint, and that ships appeared over the horizon mast first. -- ======================================================================= = David - Visit www.thehungersite.com = Mitchell - Feed someone for nothing ======================================================================= ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> <8ZyD7.85457$B3.2474005@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 33 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:12:27 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:20:29 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!cyclone.bc.net!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73256 "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message news:MPG.164935f896644c8c9896e7@news.lineone.net... > In article <8ZyD7.85457$B3.2474005@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > "Julia Hawkes-Moore" wrote in message > > news:3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com... > > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:48 -0000, Ian H Spedding > > > wrote: > > > >I don't think general practitioners have the power to commit people to > > > >asylums. What they can do is "section" them. This means that under > > > >one of the sections of the Mental Health Act they can have > > > >vulnerable patients detained in a psychological ward temporarily while > > > >a more detailed assessment of their condition is made, although I > > > >think even this requires the agreement of another competent person > > > >such as a social worker. > > > > > > Ys, the technical word I coldn't remember was 'section'. It must be > > > wonderful to have a such a large vocabulary as yours. > > > > LOL. Did get a bit technical there. Reminded me of a Sherilyn answer. (No > > offense Sher) > > Hey, I didn't mention Proust at all! > Or parsimonious or any of those other dreaded "P" words! ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> <8ZyD7.85457$B3.2474005@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <9rn21l02vs2@drn.newsguy.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 36 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:44:03 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:42:54 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsmi-eu.news.garr.it!newsmi-us.news.garr.it!NewsITBone-GARR!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73257 "Sherilyn" wrote in message news:9rn21l02vs2@drn.newsguy.com... > In message-id <8ZyD7.85457$B3.2474005@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com>, "lorz" > wrote: > > > > > >"Julia Hawkes-Moore" wrote in message > >news:3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com... > >> On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:48 -0000, Ian H Spedding > >> wrote: > >> >I don't think general practitioners have the power to commit people to > >> >asylums. What they can do is "section" them. This means that under > >> >one of the sections of the Mental Health Act they can have > >> >vulnerable patients detained in a psychological ward temporarily while > >> >a more detailed assessment of their condition is made, although I > >> >think even this requires the agreement of another competent person > >> >such as a social worker. > >> > >> Ys, the technical word I coldn't remember was 'section'. It must be > >> wonderful to have a such a large vocabulary as yours. > > > >LOL. Did get a bit technical there. Reminded me of a Sherilyn answer. (No > >offense Sher) > > > On the contrary, I take it as a compliment that you should compare Ian's concise > and, as far as I'm aware, accurate response, to my own scribblings. > -- While I'm sure it was an accurate description of how general practitioners can "section" rather than commit people it detoured away from the main point in the original post of Julia's. ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 30 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:48:47 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:50:56 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!64.152.100.70.MISMATCH!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73262 "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message news:MPG.16493902360703659896e8@news.lineone.net... > In article <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:49 -0000, Ian H Spedding > > wrote: > > [...] > > > >A consensus view is not necessarily the truth, as in the well-worn > > >example of a majority of people in the distant past assuming that the > > >world was flat. > > > > It was the truth to that particular group of people, as I made clear > > in my post. Start listening and stop thinking. You might learn > > something. > > But their belief that it was true didn't make it true. That's the > whole point. When a few of the smarter people took a closer look at > the idea they began to notice the little clues that suggested the > Earth was round. > > [...] But couldn't one then argue that a "few smarter people" are taking a look around and noticing little clues that things are not what they seem (As far as OBE's, dreams, etc.)? ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <3bdf356d.718353@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 63 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:58:23 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:59:10 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73263 "Julia Hawkes-Moore" wrote in message news:3bdf356d.718353@news.ntlworld.com... > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 14:13:13 -0500, "lorz" wrote: > >> > Really though, Ian. have you ever experienced that electrical feeling? > >Kind > >> > of like when you accidently touch a light socket and you get that little > >> > zap. But it last longer and your head swirls (inside, not literally like > >in > >> > the Exorcist..lol) It really is hard to explain but I know it definitely > >> > happens and is a definoite part of most all my truest feeling OOB > >> > experiences. > > plus a series of very exciting electrical sensations... > Lorene, don't tempt me! You must remember how excited I get when there > is a discussion about minor forms of electrocution... > > When I was six and bounced up and licked the end of the electric cable > protruding from the wall, and was thrown back onto the bed. Then it > was my little sister's turn. That went on for hours... Wow! I don't feel so bad about the whole Senor Frog's fun now ;) Reminds me though that the waiters convinced me and my beau to touch tongues during that whole thing. Only did that once though. Yikes! > > There was the time when the Young Farmer grasped the ac current > electric fence and stood sweatinmg and pulsing , looking at me and > trying to coax me to touch him... > Uhm, hope that was innocent? > Or the tingle from the end of a mobile phone recharger in your > mouth... Never thought to do that! lol > > Or the damp weather which made the entire west wall of our holiday > house become electrified, and I could stand up in bed and spread > myself all over the bedroom wall... > Neat > But no, never felt that kind of electric surge in obe. > Perhaps that's what I'm looking for? Well in OBE it isn't quite as intense as all that. But that feeling after. The after-effect of the shock. That zingy tingly feeling all over *inside*, you know? > Love from julia > Julia ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 49 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <8hUD7.5474$QL2.158740@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:55:00 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:03:19 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73254 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.164920ac6ad3120c989d8a@news.starlinx.com... > In article , > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > In article , > > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > The only time I accidentally got a shock was from an old light switch > > in a garden shed. It had got damp overnight and there must have been > > a crack in the insulation. I got a sharp, vibrating jolt up my arm. > > Is that the sort of thing you mean? > > I can't speak for Lorene's electrical sensations but neither my > "kundalini" sensation nor the buzzy feeling in SP ever felt like shocks > (I've had one or two of those while handling old appliance plugs). More like the after effect of a shock I guess. As I said to Julia in other post. That zingy, tingly feeling after. Most often mine is occompanied by the intense seixure like "vibrations" (for lack of a better word). While the "vibes" are intense the electrical feeling is more like the after effect of a shock. Inside feeling. Really is hard to explain. > > > The nearest other experience to that is the sudden jerks that I was > > getting as I was on the point of falling asleep. The sudden spasm of > > the abdominal muscles felt similar, although not as violent. > > I had those a lot while ill. They were stronger then than they usually > are for me and felt very much like shocks, but not much like the current > sensation per se. > > -- > > It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven > if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney > > My homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html > > The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html > > The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> <9rdbqn$ng4$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> <%H1D7.200$j14.6928@wormhole.dimensional.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 73 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 08:51:12 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.17 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1004543377 216.241.33.17 (Wed, 31 Oct 2001 08:49:37 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 08:49:37 MST Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73241 dorothy wrote in message news:cRJD7.59$gz3.112848@bcandid.telisphere.com... > > "The Original Ken" wrote in message > news:%H1D7.200$j14.6928@wormhole.dimensional.com... > > > > dorothy wrote in message > > news:NzZC7.28$gz3.52746@bcandid.telisphere.com... > > > "The Original Ken" wrote in message > > > news:dgQC7.184$j14.6598@wormhole.dimensional.com... > > > > > > > > Bart wrote in message > > > > news:9rdbqn$ng4$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net... > > > > > > > > > > The Original Ken wrote in message ... > > > > > > >Do you suspect that the popular author that wrote the books > > > > "Conversations > > > > > >with God" was having a similar experience, or drug related, or > bogus? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Never read the books. It wouldn't surprise me that the author had a > > > > similar > > > > > experience. > > > > > > > > It's an interesting series. It became a best seller almost overnight > > (no > > > > doubt because of the title). Our library even carries the first book > of > > > the > > > > series so I checked it out. I was surprised by some of it, but it may > > > also > > > > have been no more than just an accurate reflection of current popular > > > > western beliefs about God. > > > > > > I've asked a friend who used to know the author 'back when'; I'll let > you > > > know what she says. > > > > Oh, absolutely. I'd be very interested in hearing what she says. > > I heard back from her today, but her answer is rather cryptic: > > "i guess he got his stuff from many sources but one > in particular would have been people he did "sessions" > with ... he is not your typical picture of a striving enlightened being" > > I asked her to clarify the bit about "sessions"; maybe there's something > about that in his books? (Just guessing, since I haven't read them either.) > Will let you know if I hear more. It almost sounds like maybe he just polled (probed) a lot of people to get some popular answers. In the forward to the book it very specifically says that he had a literal conversation with God where he would ask the questions and God would answer him via telepathy. He mentions nothing about getting some or all of his ideas from any session work. Yes, let me know if you hear more. Ken > > > > ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-FaLydLZ64jMriHkdI2csKMxAGzkplZV3V+MQT47R8S903VjBnPZ Lines: 46 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:23:14 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-LsGKAJUBV8Ay2GAMesJccsG9NKlC71CuUMPchkgTK9oA0xiREsiMhQ8U8PFbYGvzmU2NOmw0LZLAn5P!zJ4rD/1N8H4lPaMJvtJqDYXmp4P+0Awxq6JoFGiP0Ug41nGyTP9RxBCN5MwMDdzIm44rm9jOqh3x!KGJkJaGsJl4Ml6rAv9JvTQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 19:23:14 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!news-west.rr.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73268 In article , lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message > news:MPG.16493902360703659896e8@news.lineone.net... > > In article <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:49 -0000, Ian H Spedding > > > wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > > >A consensus view is not necessarily the truth, as in the well-worn > > > >example of a majority of people in the distant past assuming that the > > > >world was flat. > > > > > > It was the truth to that particular group of people, as I made clear > > > in my post. Start listening and stop thinking. You might learn > > > something. > > > > But their belief that it was true didn't make it true. That's the > > whole point. When a few of the smarter people took a closer look at > > the idea they began to notice the little clues that suggested the > > Earth was round. > > > > [...] > > But couldn't one then argue that a "few smarter people" are taking a look > around and noticing little clues that things are not what they seem (As far > as OBE's, dreams, etc.)? Not until after they are proven correct. -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 57 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:35:02 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:43:20 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!nf3.bellglobal.com!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73273 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.164a19aa5a1741c5989d9c@news.starlinx.com... > In article , > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message > > news:MPG.16493902360703659896e8@news.lineone.net... > > > In article <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > > > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:49 -0000, Ian H Spedding > > > > wrote: > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > >A consensus view is not necessarily the truth, as in the well-worn > > > > >example of a majority of people in the distant past assuming that the > > > > >world was flat. > > > > > > > > It was the truth to that particular group of people, as I made clear > > > > in my post. Start listening and stop thinking. You might learn > > > > something. > > > > > > But their belief that it was true didn't make it true. That's the > > > whole point. When a few of the smarter people took a closer look at > > > the idea they began to notice the little clues that suggested the > > > Earth was round. > > > > > > [...] > > > > But couldn't one then argue that a "few smarter people" are taking a look > > around and noticing little clues that things are not what they seem (As far > > as OBE's, dreams, etc.)? > > Not until after they are proven correct. > > -- Oh, grrr. It's always something :Þ -- A man thinks that by mouthing hard words he understands hard things. - Herman Melville ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:46:53 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <8hUD7.5474$QL2.158740@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 31 Oct 2001 23:42:59 GMT, host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 41 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73288 In article <8hUD7.5474$QL2.158740@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > "Janice" wrote in message > news:MPG.164920ac6ad3120c989d8a@news.starlinx.com... > > In article , > > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > > In article , > > > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > > The only time I accidentally got a shock was from an old light switch > > > in a garden shed. It had got damp overnight and there must have been > > > a crack in the insulation. I got a sharp, vibrating jolt up my arm. > > > Is that the sort of thing you mean? > > > > I can't speak for Lorene's electrical sensations but neither my > > "kundalini" sensation nor the buzzy feeling in SP ever felt like shocks > > (I've had one or two of those while handling old appliance plugs). > > More like the after effect of a shock I guess. As I said to Julia in other > post. That zingy, tingly feeling after. Most often mine is occompanied by > the intense seixure like "vibrations" (for lack of a better word). While the > "vibes" are intense the electrical feeling is more like the after effect of > a shock. Inside feeling. > Really is hard to explain. Yes, it's like the old problem of trying to explain colour to a blind person. Unless you've experienced it yourself words can't convey it. A word is only a label for something. Unless you've seen a cat, the word "cat" doesn't mean a lot. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:47:00 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 31 Oct 2001 23:43:05 GMT, host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 33 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73289 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article , > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > > > > "Janice" wrote in message > > > > news:MPG.1648c0bb55e010b1989d80@news.starlinx.com... > > > > > > > > When I was in junior high school the science teacher had us stand in a > > > > > ring round the room holding hands, then he generated an electrical > > > > > current somehow with a rotary pencil sharpener so we could all feel it > > > > > conducted through the human circuit we made. > > > > I remember doing that at school, as well. I think the device that was > > used to generate the current was called a Wimshurst(sp?) machine. > > Well then you should have a rough idea of what an "electrical current > sensation" would feel like. I can remember that sensation. So one line of inquiry should be to examine the physiological effects of a mild electric shock to see if something similar could be induced by internal changes. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:47:01 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 31 Oct 2001 23:43:06 GMT, host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 36 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!opentransit.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73287 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article , > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > In article , not-me@not- > > here.net says... > > > > "Vicious" and "Ian" were two words I would never have expected to see > > > paired. :) > > > > "Ian Vicious"? Nah, I can't really see myself as a punk-rocker.:) > > Get out your clarinet! Perhaps you are destined to invent a new punk-Big > Band fusion that will be the next discotheque sensation. Actually, one of my favourite fantasies was to be like Vic Fontaine, the holographic Sinatra-type singer in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. I could just see myself in a sharp tux in front of a swing band: "Start spreadin' the news I'm leavin' today..." ... which is apt because I've decided to make my first visit to the States and see New York. Thought I'd better do it while I still can. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:47:02 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bde82e2.4683957@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdf3475.470387@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 31 Oct 2001 23:43:08 GMT, host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73284 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article <3bdf3475.470387@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > > > Okay, I withdraw the 'vicious word' I'm sorry. I've had a hard week. > > Pisa was fun, though, and as for Florence... > > Coooo. > > Love from Julia > > Ian is usually a sweetheart so I'm sure we can forgive him. You old smoothie! Oh, alright, we're all friends again. It shall be as Her Majesty decrees.:) Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:47:06 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 31 Oct 2001 23:43:11 GMT, host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 31 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73278 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article , not-me@not- > here.net says... > > > I both expect and accept it as a normal human tendency that is generally > > fairly harmless because most of us do learn to filter for it--at least > > when the beliefs concerned are unappealing or otherwise unacceptable to > > us. Yes, of course people can be swayed by it when suggestible for one > > reason or another, but I don't think there's any serious danger of that > > in this context. > > Though I confess there are occasions when even I can't resist getting > confrontational about that sort of thing, one of which came up tonight > when my poor beleaguered hubby asked for skeptical reinforcement against > a presumptuous Jungian in another group. I'm sure His Malevolence would > be delighted that the ways of evil overcame me. :) I would have thought that slapping down Jungians would earn you your place in Paradise.:) Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:47:07 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <9r7g9d$158$2@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 31 Oct 2001 23:43:12 GMT, host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 45 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host62-6-93-248.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73279 In article , lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message > news:MPG.16493902360703659896e8@news.lineone.net... > > In article <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:49 -0000, Ian H Spedding > > > wrote: > > > > [...] > > > > > >A consensus view is not necessarily the truth, as in the well-worn > > > >example of a majority of people in the distant past assuming that the > > > >world was flat. > > > > > > It was the truth to that particular group of people, as I made clear > > > in my post. Start listening and stop thinking. You might learn > > > something. > > > > But their belief that it was true didn't make it true. That's the > > whole point. When a few of the smarter people took a closer look at > > the idea they began to notice the little clues that suggested the > > Earth was round. > > > > [...] > > But couldn't one then argue that a "few smarter people" are taking a look > around and noticing little clues that things are not what they seem (As far > as OBE's, dreams, etc.)? Absolutely, the "few smarter people" being the skeptics. (Sorry, I couldn't resist it:)) Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-VqbFkeYBzuKaGUELSwrXOMrnzMaX5uqSi0x2wO2J6abRtQOuM08 Lines: 41 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:36:04 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-EWVgdcr7lOOtaNv2CRGpftWGEwLOx/QcEAdI4+72ApY8b7DGqrDhuKWmNiutH57tJxEpfZQQgbNpcEg!oAqyYQDLH3mh0Fz4chsYRiFt9UGvIOMxSGKZUQ7QP3MeaMQZelMs+dvd8kqNOq9J9zA/2vLc9BSt!edJ5huqwm6BLkzXp+kNv/g== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 02:36:04 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73292 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > In article , not-me@not- > here.net says... > > In article , > > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > > I remember doing that at school, as well. I think the device that was > > > used to generate the current was called a Wimshurst(sp?) machine. > > > > Well then you should have a rough idea of what an "electrical current > > sensation" would feel like. > > I can remember that sensation. So one line of inquiry should be > to examine the physiological effects of a mild electric shock to see > if something similar could be induced by internal changes. I know my hair wasn't standing on end with the kundalini thing. :) Interestingly, I came across a lengthy essay that has evidently been posted to spiritual-type groups on Usenet multiple times over the years, by a fellow who claimed to have practiced meditation for 15 years and read up on neuroscience for 5. He made an attempt to debunk and downplay all sorts of mystical experiences, even going so far as to claim that a doctor had diagnosed him with "self-induced epilepsy." But he said that he had found no mention of the kundalini-style sensation of energy going up and down the spine in neuroscientific literature. -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-CTQXH7vNDU7RdefrZfsUfRIdgUB5DCOlkt4d6o240GqMNuJwWUc Lines: 35 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:54:29 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-ygWY6hwvhEf/B5aa38ly4hdKFUqpJFHXQ8lPFNXzFhYJPRmKP8HBhQRaquxKpJwfWSaaNGImv8XvxtH!MvFRpl6LS44mjE3GwS3bathujtry3Bd3UjWpM7glavIJiMnlSZnb3TwLIDSF1+vtOj0EDAPWlNiX!slF6d00H3mK0gWE8S2+1Kw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 02:54:29 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.siscom.net!216.166.61.6.MISMATCH!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73286 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > In article , not-me@not- > here.net says... > > In article , not-me@not- > > here.net says... > > > Though I confess there are occasions when even I can't resist getting > > confrontational about that sort of thing, one of which came up tonight > > when my poor beleaguered hubby asked for skeptical reinforcement against > > a presumptuous Jungian in another group. I'm sure His Malevolence would > > be delighted that the ways of evil overcame me. :) > > I would have thought that slapping down Jungians would earn you your > place in Paradise.:) He was maintaining with full conviction that harming a dream character will do serious harm to the psyche, leading to depression, anxiety, even schizophrenia. Keeping your recent statements here in mind, I asked if there was a particular dream action that leads people to state dubious propositions as facts. :) -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-Pclj6Ly4yePjyqws9eJsYjsZqpcmJJKeyIzzekTfFxlFJ394D3W Lines: 32 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:26:27 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-RWn8pU4CpC0rT1ODDvmwe1CdD7/R1JmTlqm2Ra0bKC2XiuUg8IXKfKZYHG8je3/XxUt7HtVaj2df9en!46jr3+a0lzxwX+6oH+aLkzGseXcjICZkz7pKSOo2nI1pMprrRx14lcXaghUnsZOGVhluc5pKXe22!H9uh5bkVeO7cqh1y7zZtaA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 04:26:27 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!ord2-feed1.news.digex.net!intermedia!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73297 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > Actually, one of my favourite fantasies was to be like Vic Fontaine, > the holographic Sinatra-type singer in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. > > I could just see myself in a sharp tux in front of a swing band: > > "Start spreadin' the news > I'm leavin' today..." > > ... which is apt because I've decided to make my first visit to the > States and see New York. Thought I'd better do it while I still can. Before it disappears building by building, you mean? ;-) If your travel itinerary should happen to include Philadelphia, the Prince Regent and I would be delighted to treat you to lunch. -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bde82e2.4683957@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdf3475.470387@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-0dSyct4LOMkm/MOCwynJeLjm8eXa+ux00YrBROnM45r6FTCeM5F Lines: 32 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 22:52:23 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-J3cVHvaJC9H40Rz36dN303hJObpVHJ5reX8tABieBLOsp89t4ol5G7mr+Gu+OYVmS6gF8KvFROErlfL!hNwTVPVagd95vMCbhc5mSFth8HJFWsMM9ncWRwIL+LWfiuOYxpTnelnC+LT/08Ia8HyO8P6FBz3v!Vo20jG59tATA1KFGBdt88A== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 04:52:23 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin4.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73298 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > In article , not-me@not- > here.net says... > > In article <3bdf3475.470387@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > > > > > Okay, I withdraw the 'vicious word' I'm sorry. I've had a hard week. > > > Pisa was fun, though, and as for Florence... > > > Coooo. > > > Love from Julia > > > > Ian is usually a sweetheart so I'm sure we can forgive him. > > You old smoothie! Oh, alright, we're all friends again. It shall be > as Her Majesty decrees.:) Aww, I wuv gwoup hugs. :) -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-NCTH9ShD6oHijWdz9Pt1bY1M0jwmIyccs2eBq1MZhLQs3cHQWQa Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 23:29:04 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-K7BDSRVoDRQnJjdqmCoew9OEqKEx1jf+VZ8JV/SzzoCWXDVVTf5WLpMvTfOvCRs8uuTQ8Ec7F+PiIeL!m70Ci7e7BuQX/fUSqrp82EpYGtFtXnBevc6C/5h6pw0sqIHLPTNHNsWvLc4zGtG5SEFjOVPF5RHm!GZsr4az0tuRMtIekK+ys X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 05:29:04 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73291 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > If your travel itinerary should happen to include Philadelphia, the > Prince Regent and I would be delighted to treat you to lunch. Prince Consort, that is. There will be no Regent in the realm unless PZ gets his evil way. -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <1103_1003999975@the.bit.bucket> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdd3ecd.12571356@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 52 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 09:00:17 EST Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:02:28 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73300 "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message news:MPG.164a9566133d829a9896f8@news.lineone.net... > In article , > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message > > news:MPG.16493902360703659896e8@news.lineone.net... > > > In article <3bde8404.4973931@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > > > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > > > On Tue, 30 Oct 2001 01:34:49 -0000, Ian H Spedding > > > > wrote: > > > > > > [...] > > > > > > > >A consensus view is not necessarily the truth, as in the well-worn > > > > >example of a majority of people in the distant past assuming that the > > > > >world was flat. > > > > > > > > It was the truth to that particular group of people, as I made clear > > > > in my post. Start listening and stop thinking. You might learn > > > > something. > > > > > > But their belief that it was true didn't make it true. That's the > > > whole point. When a few of the smarter people took a closer look at > > > the idea they began to notice the little clues that suggested the > > > Earth was round. > > > > > > [...] > > > > But couldn't one then argue that a "few smarter people" are taking a look > > around and noticing little clues that things are not what they seem (As far > > as OBE's, dreams, etc.)? > > Absolutely, the "few smarter people" being the skeptics. > > (Sorry, I couldn't resist it:)) > > Ian > > -- Hey I thought we were all friends again. Group hugged and everything! Hmmpf. :Þ I'll just remain the fence-sitter that I am until I see enough evidence for myself one way or the other. ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <8hUD7.5474$QL2.158740@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> Subject: Re: Kundalini Lines: 51 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 08:56:46 EST Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:05:05 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.netcologne.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73301 "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message news:MPG.164a8c31e8e64bfe9896f0@news.lineone.net... > In article <8hUD7.5474$QL2.158740@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > "Janice" wrote in message > > news:MPG.164920ac6ad3120c989d8a@news.starlinx.com... > > > In article , > > > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > > > In article , > > > > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > > > > The only time I accidentally got a shock was from an old light switch > > > > in a garden shed. It had got damp overnight and there must have been > > > > a crack in the insulation. I got a sharp, vibrating jolt up my arm. > > > > Is that the sort of thing you mean? > > > > > > I can't speak for Lorene's electrical sensations but neither my > > > "kundalini" sensation nor the buzzy feeling in SP ever felt like shocks > > > (I've had one or two of those while handling old appliance plugs). > > > > More like the after effect of a shock I guess. As I said to Julia in other > > post. That zingy, tingly feeling after. Most often mine is occompanied by > > the intense seixure like "vibrations" (for lack of a better word). While the > > "vibes" are intense the electrical feeling is more like the after effect of > > a shock. Inside feeling. > > Really is hard to explain. > > Yes, it's like the old problem of trying to explain colour to a blind > person. Unless you've experienced it yourself words can't convey it. > A word is only a label for something. Unless you've seen a cat, the > word "cat" doesn't mean a lot. > > Ian > > -- Exactly. And while I know many of us have shared similar experiences with similar symptoms, I do wonder how much they differ as words can't really convey the experience to the fullest. ###### From: Stefan Ljungstrand Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 18:18:36 +0100 Organization: Chalmers University of Technology Lines: 51 Message-ID: References: <9rbuh6$bi6$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net> <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: fraggel21.mdstud.chalmers.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: nyheter.chalmers.se 1004635117 13421 129.16.235.31 (1 Nov 2001 17:18:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@chalmers.se NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Nov 2001 17:18:37 GMT In-Reply-To: Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.netcologne.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!194.213.69.151!news.algonet.se!algonet!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.sunet.se!news01.sunet.se!news.chalmers.se!fraggel21.mdstud.chalmers.se!md9slj Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73277 On Fri, 26 Oct 2001, Janice wrote: > In article <9rcg16$aik$1@slb4.atl.mindspring.net>, Bartma12@ix.netcom.com > says... > > > > Janice wrote in message ... [snip] > > >You heard these phrases? Sounds like the voice was cribbing from the New > > >Testament a bit. > > > > You are correct, of course. The thing is, at the time, I knew exactly what > > these words meant. Instead of seeing them as the words of an individual > > named "Jesus" - they became the words of "Consciousness" Itself. I > > identified with consciousness as a whole - not as an individual. It was > > like doors in my being were opened and I was receiving divine communication. > > > > "Through me flows the Word of God" was another phrase that kept getting > > repeated. I was convinced this was The Second Coming of Christ. > > I remember reading the New Testament one time and seeing how some of the > lines attributed to Jesus could have an esoteric interpretation like > that--the Kingdom of Heaven as an enlightened state of awareness etc. Reminds me of : http://www.reciprocality.org/Reciprocality/r6/index.html and other subprojects on that site. (Also sufism were mentioned somewhere on the site, I think. (And states of consciousness and programming computers and shamanism and magic and ... )) (Reciprocality project main site : http://www.reciprocality.org/Reciprocality/index.html http://www.reciprocality.org/ (If ye be interested, you may want to begin reading project 1 (or perhaps 0) )) (Comment, if you wish) -- Stefan Lj md9slj The infinity that can be finitely expressed is not the true infinity ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 00:07:50 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-52-40.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 2 Nov 2001 00:03:52 GMT, host213-123-52-40.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 38 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-123-52-40.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73311 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article , > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > > Actually, one of my favourite fantasies was to be like Vic Fontaine, > > the holographic Sinatra-type singer in Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. > > > > I could just see myself in a sharp tux in front of a swing band: > > > > "Start spreadin' the news > > I'm leavin' today..." > > > > ... which is apt because I've decided to make my first visit to the > > States and see New York. Thought I'd better do it while I still can. > > Before it disappears building by building, you mean? ;-) Either that or it's quarantined. > If your travel itinerary should happen to include Philadelphia, the > Prince Regent and I would be delighted to treat you to lunch. Your Majesty's invitation is most gracious but my initial plan for this first visit to your country is to see as much of the Big Apple as I can. I'm just sorry that my friend is no longer with us because she loved New York and would have enjoyed showing me around. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 00:07:51 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-52-40.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 2 Nov 2001 00:03:53 GMT, host213-123-52-40.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-123-52-40.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73306 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article , not-me@not- > here.net says... > > > If your travel itinerary should happen to include Philadelphia, the > > Prince Regent and I would be delighted to treat you to lunch. > > Prince Consort, that is. There will be no Regent in the realm unless PZ > gets his evil way. Ah, but he's safely esconced in in Castle Myers, his lair in Minnesota, is he not? Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 00:07:52 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-52-40.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 2 Nov 2001 00:03:54 GMT, host213-123-52-40.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 36 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!nerim.net!grolier!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-123-52-40.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73307 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article , > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > In article , not-me@not- > > here.net says... > > > In article , not-me@not- > > > here.net says... > > > > > Though I confess there are occasions when even I can't resist getting > > > confrontational about that sort of thing, one of which came up tonight > > > when my poor beleaguered hubby asked for skeptical reinforcement against > > > a presumptuous Jungian in another group. I'm sure His Malevolence would > > > be delighted that the ways of evil overcame me. :) > > > > I would have thought that slapping down Jungians would earn you your > > place in Paradise.:) > > He was maintaining with full conviction that harming a dream character > will do serious harm to the psyche, leading to depression, anxiety, even > schizophrenia. Keeping your recent statements here in mind, I asked if > there was a particular dream action that leads people to state dubious > propositions as facts. :) Nice one! Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Ian H Spedding Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 00:07:53 -0000 Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <9rh9tb026aq@drn.newsguy.com> <%agD7.78314$B3.2278366@e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com> <8hUD7.5474$QL2.158740@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-123-52-40.dialup.lineone.co.uk X-Trace: 2 Nov 2001 00:03:55 GMT, host213-123-52-40.dialup.lineone.co.uk Lines: 63 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!mk-nntp-1.news.uk.worldonline.com!host213-123-52-40.dialup.lineone.co.uk Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73308 In article , lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > "Ian H Spedding" wrote in message > news:MPG.164a8c31e8e64bfe9896f0@news.lineone.net... > > In article <8hUD7.5474$QL2.158740@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com>, > > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > > > "Janice" wrote in message > > > news:MPG.164920ac6ad3120c989d8a@news.starlinx.com... > > > > In article , > > > > ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > > > > > In article , > > > > > lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > > > > > > > > The only time I accidentally got a shock was from an old light > switch > > > > > in a garden shed. It had got damp overnight and there must have > been > > > > > a crack in the insulation. I got a sharp, vibrating jolt up my arm. > > > > > Is that the sort of thing you mean? > > > > > > > > I can't speak for Lorene's electrical sensations but neither my > > > > "kundalini" sensation nor the buzzy feeling in SP ever felt like > shocks > > > > (I've had one or two of those while handling old appliance plugs). > > > > > > More like the after effect of a shock I guess. As I said to Julia in > other > > > post. That zingy, tingly feeling after. Most often mine is occompanied > by > > > the intense seixure like "vibrations" (for lack of a better word). While > the > > > "vibes" are intense the electrical feeling is more like the after effect > of > > > a shock. Inside feeling. > > > Really is hard to explain. > > > > Yes, it's like the old problem of trying to explain colour to a blind > > person. Unless you've experienced it yourself words can't convey it. > > A word is only a label for something. Unless you've seen a cat, the > > word "cat" doesn't mean a lot. > > > > Ian > > > > -- > > Exactly. And while I know many of us have shared similar experiences with > similar symptoms, I do wonder how much they differ as words can't really > convey the experience to the fullest. There's probably no way of knowing for sure - short of telepathy. Ian -- Ian H Spedding ..Now I want you to remember that no bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country. Gen. George S Patton, Jr ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-mnUZlPbbx8gcPSiQvL5lObqwCxoNmis+FQVrwsEUCco5LAjlix0 Lines: 30 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 00:15:22 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-GmWmEhAct7fgMYLuxPW0f4qQCU+YoPUD4O6bVUpXR47O9MVuuTsscvsw8ikO5yOmC1EQJKbmcXKHyKx!XwmE1AepA4WncBMwAJZLh/cVVhpHl8pLkSsRklWAomAPDQSm2t2xU5E0E6XBONbG+jqaCV4uOMZJ!dQnLDPL1HCWWc0Gde8t2fg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 06:15:22 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!howland.erols.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.siscom.net!216.166.61.6.MISMATCH!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73309 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > In article , not-me@not- > here.net says... > > If your travel itinerary should happen to include Philadelphia, the > > Prince Regent and I would be delighted to treat you to lunch. > > Your Majesty's invitation is most gracious but my initial plan for > this first visit to your country is to see as much of the Big Apple as > I can. I'm just sorry that my friend is no longer with us because she > loved New York and would have enjoyed showing me around. Well, you can certainly take a raincheck in the event of possible future visits to the US. There are plenty of interesting sights in the City of Brotherly Love as well. -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> <1O2D7.20132$RB4.888707@e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com> <3bdd424d.13468351@news.ntlworld.com> <3bde81ff.4457450@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-DA52lkBnZNwtPotlYqQLDE9Gufzb91Ce9Qm31EUFa8uafOc996T Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 00:16:14 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-hXGGyNo5k+WFpUMr7t2T7zbEmklDPJo4OYb5cF1EthwdMVoOCTCirKZaHHg/0YrS+WGZ2RgelKJCMqD!B5XavA6r/l5KJEUYqyhZn3gyZS2nBIeZEkpW+BvQAAt7U8waLFFubrrzQCMeBRKnOzpwIIpQ6LIs!TpUnP53nJemqfLZaJKEkLg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 06:16:14 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73310 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > In article , not-me@not- > here.net says... > > Prince Consort, that is. There will be no Regent in the realm unless PZ > > gets his evil way. > > Ah, but he's safely esconced in in Castle Myers, his lair in > Minnesota, is he not? Alas, physical distance is meaningless in the astral realms. -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Kundalini Message-ID: References: <3BD47549.2060105@yahoo.com> <3bd8ba64.391615@news.lynx.net> <3bda6626.2269421@news.ntlworld.com> <3bdafca8.4727580@news1.qc.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-GC-Trace: gv1-K7YDGYtwOV7JjrwdTCFF0me5q2polY2TuvYCq+0JPRXk5owuSYo Lines: 29 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 00:35:36 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-eDa0KXTNOMafqqvU5nGYZUhMo1S28wnUXV6pBrFaQlTbertp/wFCjowtFnPW2HLAIxEJ7rPqX3B7JAJ!2E/AzWO5LxoUMe+ZCI3cfZBtIWPGZZW5vxWZquTml50PRDTbyn4aPZD/VD3h+tjQbHR3iR3N241Y!mUwD7eAB+Z2lPekIHQZcFQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 06:35:36 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!nntp1.phx1.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.siscom.net!216.166.61.6.MISMATCH!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news2.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:73312 In article , ian_spamding@lineone.net says... > In article , not-me@not- > here.net says... > > He was maintaining with full conviction that harming a dream character > > will do serious harm to the psyche, leading to depression, anxiety, even > > schizophrenia. Keeping your recent statements here in mind, I asked if > > there was a particular dream action that leads people to state dubious > > propositions as facts. :) > > Nice one! Now he's falling back on the old "I know what I'm talking about" routine. Maybe so, but he doesn't know what he's up against. Muwahahaha! :) -- It will be L7 and I'll never get to heaven if I fill my head with glue.--Paul McCartney My homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/ced.html The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html