From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 23 Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:28:39 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.10.129 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1001424524 62.255.10.129 (Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:28:44 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 14:28:44 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:71604 I attended a weekend shamanic workshop a few days ago, held in a village hall. During the later part of saturday morning we did a meditation exercise. When we finished, one of the older women in the group rushaed across the circle to one of the younger women, Georgina, and touched her knees and feet, saying "You flew right out of yourself just then I saw you go. Come back to us now." We laughed, and broke for a teabreak. Georgina's mobile phone rang, and she went off to answer it. She came back a moment later and told us that her babysitter had rung to ask Georgina where she was. She explained that she was in the village hall, doing that workshop. "No you weren't, the babysitter replied, because about ten minutes ago I looked up to see you standing in the living room, smiling at the baby. I spoke to you but you didn't look at me or speak. The doorbell rang, and you didn't go to answer it and when I came back, you had vanished. What happened?" Georgina was rather startled, as she has tended to slip out of body in the past, during meditation. The babysitter was okay about it all. The baby, incidentally, had been fast asleep and happy. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: spamnot@nothanks.com (Aphasic Orator) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 14 Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 01:44:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.92.70.210 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sympatico.ca X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 1001468649 65.92.70.210 (Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:44:09 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 25 Sep 2001 21:44:09 EDT Organization: Bell Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!195.54.122.107!newsfeed1.bredband.com!bredband!newsfeed.sovam.com!nf1.bellglobal.com!nf2.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:71651 On Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:28:39 GMT, julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote: >Georgina was rather startled, as she has tended to slip out of body in >the past, during meditation. The babysitter was okay about it all. >The baby, incidentally, had been fast asleep and happy. Hi Julia, that is interesting. So, this lady Georgina didn't remember anything about leaving her body at that time? Do you know if she was aware of anything during the time that this happened, or did she just blank out? /ao ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 19 Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 06:50:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.85.235 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1001487017 62.253.85.235 (Wed, 26 Sep 2001 07:50:17 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 07:50:17 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newscore.gigabell.net!news.ndh.net!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:71647 On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 01:44:21 GMT, spamnot@nothanks.com (Aphasic Orator) wrote: >On Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:28:39 GMT, julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com >(Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote: > >>Georgina was rather startled, as she has tended to slip out of body in >>the past, during meditation. The babysitter was okay about it all. >>The baby, incidentally, had been fast asleep and happy. > >Hi Julia, that is interesting. So, this lady Georgina didn't remember >anything about leaving her body at that time? Do you know if she was >aware of anything during the time that this happened, or did she just >blank out? I did ask her this; she said she had a fleeting moment of concern for her baby, then remembered nothing until she came back. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: An interesting incident Lines: 32 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 09:00:35 EDT Organization: Bellsouth.Net Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 08:59:47 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!news-in-sanjose!in.nntp.be!easynews!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl2.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:71685 "Julia Hawkes-Moore" wrote in message news:3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com... > On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 01:44:21 GMT, spamnot@nothanks.com (Aphasic > Orator) wrote: > > >On Tue, 25 Sep 2001 13:28:39 GMT, julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com > >(Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote: > > > >>Georgina was rather startled, as she has tended to slip out of body in > >>the past, during meditation. The babysitter was okay about it all. > >>The baby, incidentally, had been fast asleep and happy. > > > >Hi Julia, that is interesting. So, this lady Georgina didn't remember > >anything about leaving her body at that time? Do you know if she was > >aware of anything during the time that this happened, or did she just > >blank out? > > I did ask her this; she said she had a fleeting moment of concern for > her baby, then remembered nothing until she came back. > Love from Julia > Julia Hi Julia, Wow. That is a strange experience. I wonder if this would be classified as an OBE or what? Seems to me like we do remember our OBE's. Do you believe OBE and astral travel to be the same thing? Or are there different types of "getting out" experiences and how are they classified? Did the babysitter say she saw her clearly? She appeared 'solid'? ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 12:53:25 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-Xp6CaWuToytlULC2nWKGDPsaA8lGwlnnPGVA9QkLX5SFLpqICSkaz/s6kax3GU9dnyfQwa91p2YTUAK!aBWtY7/lQHeEZSKvuEcCycyluCkbKDL+1JDbkTzL9HfYwpf1kE89Au51eWqBFu7C25YvpJ+efIqH!8pIDNImQXA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:53:25 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:71656 In article , lorz@bellsouth.net says... > Hi Julia, > Wow. That is a strange experience. I wonder if this would be classified as > an OBE or what? Seems to me like we do remember our OBE's. Do you believe > OBE and astral travel to be the same thing? Or are there different types of > "getting out" experiences and how are they classified? > Did the babysitter say she saw her clearly? She appeared 'solid'? Some people would call this kind of thing bilocation rather than OBE. -- Luck can't last a lifetime unless you die young.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 13 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 22:38:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.4.136 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1002580713 62.255.4.136 (Mon, 08 Oct 2001 23:38:33 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 23:38:33 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!opentransit.net!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!grolier!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72339 On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:53:25 GMT, Janice wrote: >Some people would call this kind of thing bilocation rather than OBE. Probably. How do you think it worked? No-one but the baby was asleep and dreaming at the time! The other night, I imagined myself lying beside my absent lover as I was about to fall asleep (1am) and fondly patted his back. He rang me the next morning to ask whether it was me who woke him at 1am by patting his back. I fondly hope it was me, and no-one else! Love from Julia. Julia ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 34 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 20:06:06 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-ud906iKYe/t6Uz0PX0h/eguHlCv80VkqQ/aR0PgxHSUe+RF9ZPcd9X16qqaSLOEZbR/ZFIBD6E6srDk!8n74Ev7+MHMMqtroCPSFTagpmVkDIu5O3rD3IwJLoNN9TDglx2TnD9DpC51GJC0BMFaqvVhkg7HD!1Css3W6mqg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 01:06:06 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72382 In article <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:53:25 GMT, Janice wrote: > >Some people would call this kind of thing bilocation rather than OBE. > > Probably. How do you think it worked? No-one but the baby was asleep > and dreaming at the time! Oh, gosh, I'm trying to remember some non-skeptical theories about bilocation, since I'm sure we all know those. :) ... I guess one would be what Haunter would most likely say, that perhaps the babysitter was psychic and, sensing the mother thinking about the baby, her mind fashioned an image of the mother looking at the baby (assuming I'm remembering your account correctly). > The other night, I imagined myself lying beside my absent lover > as I was about to fall asleep (1am) and fondly patted his back. > He rang me the next morning to ask whether it was me who woke him at > 1am by patting his back. I fondly hope it was me, and no-one else! It wasn't me! :) -- Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 03:45:56 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-DmFkRop3ntvfOvG5VQmB4+wnve2JhzFnX1x2Ch/SViY5znGDyEP38iguQ8Mb6vU6PwjaRUe5Q5k05Ky!l8h8P8oj0pLkeDL10uFD59xmreqrbcjlMCM1vMhj5YixYXBIDK5tHvwK/kC/QnPHYPNM9MPWTkHD!o/QV/7rXbQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 08:45:56 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72365 In article , not-me@not- here.net says... > In article <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:53:25 GMT, Janice wrote: > Oh, gosh, I'm trying to remember some non-skeptical theories about > bilocation, since I'm sure we all know those. :) ... What a screwed up sentence. I meant that I'd try to remember some non- skeptical theories because we all know the skeptical ones. -- Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bc2b25d.1327774@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3BC25E43.63089F39@Home.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 21 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 11:24:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.7.12 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1002626711 62.255.7.12 (Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:25:11 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:25:11 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72341 On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 02:21:57 GMT, Tien Yen wrote: >lol Reminds me of a time back in '96. I awoke to a very clear image of >my gf at the time. I had the oportunity to telephone her at work the >next day (1000 miles away). >"you woke me this morning" >"yes, I know" >"What time?" >"3:38 am" >The time I noticed on my clock was 3:40; allowing for two minutes >difference on my bedside clock it seemed reasonably significant. There >were many such 'significant' events. Tien Yen, this happens to me such a lot, several times a week. Reading your account - after all that vicious tosh from those two Terrorist Sceptics - shows me that this newsgroup is valuable. For people to read and understand that the strange, inexplicable things which happen to them happen to other people too, makes us feel that we are not alone in a bitter world after all. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bc2b3e0.1715696@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 37 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 11:24:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.7.12 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1002626712 62.255.7.12 (Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:25:12 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:25:12 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72342 On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 01:06:06 GMT, Janice wrote: >Oh, gosh, I'm trying to remember some non-skeptical theories about >bilocation, since I'm sure we all know those. :) ... I guess one would >be what Haunter would most likely say, that perhaps the babysitter was >psychic and, sensing the mother thinking about the baby, her mind >fashioned an image of the mother looking at the baby (assuming I'm >remembering your account correctly). ...or the mother was thinking about the baby and slipped out-of body and went to check on the baby. For the babysitter, it was the genuine Mother who appeared beside the cot, albeit acting oddly. Meanwhile, we could all still see her body sitting on a chair but could no longer 'feel' her presence. Do you know that feeling when the person sitting beside you in a meeting or on a train suddenly seems to vanish? I often turn to look and see whether they are still there. Their bodies remain but they are 'away with the fairies' as my Grandmother used to say. Padre Pio was excellent at bilocation, able to carry on two interesting and recorded conversations simultaneously whilst appearing to groups of epeople several hundred miles apart. Now, if we could all learn to do this, think how useful it would be for international business meetings, and economical on jet fuel. You could 'stay in touch' with all your friends and family and still get on with your own life... > >> The other night, I imagined myself lying beside my absent lover >> as I was about to fall asleep (1am) and fondly patted his back. >> He rang me the next morning to ask whether it was me who woke him at >> 1am by patting his back. I fondly hope it was me, and no-one else! > >It wasn't me! :) He knew that! Love from Julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bc2dce5.12217610@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 10 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 11:24:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.7.12 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1002626713 62.255.7.12 (Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:25:13 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:25:13 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72344 On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 08:45:56 GMT, Janice wrote: >> Oh, gosh, I'm trying to remember some non-skeptical theories about >> bilocation, since I'm sure we all know those. :) ... > >What a screwed up sentence. I meant that I'd try to remember some non- >skeptical theories because we all know the skeptical ones. That is a better senstence. The first one made my heart sink. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: An interesting incident Lines: 44 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Complaints-To: abuse@usenetserver.com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly. NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 09:08:35 EDT Organization: BELLSOUTH.net Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 08:55:04 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!e420r-sjo4.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!e3500-atl1.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72386 "Janice" wrote in message news:MPG.162c18d42c4cfcbb989c69@news.starlinx.com... > In article <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:53:25 GMT, Janice wrote: > > >Some people would call this kind of thing bilocation rather than OBE. > > > > Probably. How do you think it worked? No-one but the baby was asleep > > and dreaming at the time! > > Oh, gosh, I'm trying to remember some non-skeptical theories about > bilocation, since I'm sure we all know those. :) ... I guess one would > be what Haunter would most likely say, that perhaps the babysitter was > psychic and, sensing the mother thinking about the baby, her mind > fashioned an image of the mother looking at the baby (assuming I'm > remembering your account correctly). But that would still have a psychic explanation. What would the skeptical theory be besides that the person lied? > > > The other night, I imagined myself lying beside my absent lover > > as I was about to fall asleep (1am) and fondly patted his back. > > He rang me the next morning to ask whether it was me who woke him at > > 1am by patting his back. I fondly hope it was me, and no-one else! > > It wasn't me! :) > > -- > > Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.--Despair, > Inc. > > My homepage: http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ > > The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html > > The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bc33423.359176@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 10 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 17:41:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.253.88.103 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 1002649298 62.253.88.103 (Tue, 09 Oct 2001 18:41:38 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 18:41:38 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!opentransit.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72335 On Tue, 9 Oct 2001 08:55:04 -0400, "lorz" wrote: >But that would still have a psychic explanation. What would the skeptical >theory be besides that the person lied? They would announce that the person lied, and must be in some way trying to con money out of gullible innocent children. then they would use lots of rude words. Personally, I can't see any scientific rationale for that explanation, just nastiness. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2dce5.12217610@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 14:30:28 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-9FZR4z1cKqgB+TctcO6TOAwLNW/asOER5P4XNT8bq/5ncB5bPR/3cLTY6t7G+mhzeyGMv+EkX+ox4+7!rIoEK6oOF5qjU8vrKEwW3kkE6XRPP3Zwnz7AyYjSPGjP1pf2465O/dXxdFqG4CnOCQI8JBXypLoj!NXlKhCRhaw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:30:28 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!sjcppf01.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!news-west.rr.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72400 In article <3bc2dce5.12217610@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 08:45:56 GMT, Janice wrote: > >> Oh, gosh, I'm trying to remember some non-skeptical theories about > >> bilocation, since I'm sure we all know those. :) ... > > > >What a screwed up sentence. I meant that I'd try to remember some non- > >skeptical theories because we all know the skeptical ones. > > That is a better senstence. The first one made my heart sink. Sorry. 'Twas an accident. I figured I'd better correct it since the mistake wasn't an obvious one. -- Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 37 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 14:37:29 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-wisUBbSNMRj/m6un4453adSeqOszbA6KMVHF15C9AlnGCL9m6PVoBHPHkncMU+T1D3nhL+ww3VGG+fe!TtU8YMy1HH1XBQiaHZ7bIovbj7b2A3N6wpejBv3IQPj1CY16FG3kN8EHt2FwKelYStJrIfyusq8q!682V94+ipg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:37:29 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72398 In article , lorz@bellsouth.net says... > > "Janice" wrote in message > news:MPG.162c18d42c4cfcbb989c69@news.starlinx.com... > > In article <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > > On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:53:25 GMT, Janice wrote: > > > >Some people would call this kind of thing bilocation rather than OBE. > > > > > > Probably. How do you think it worked? No-one but the baby was asleep > > > and dreaming at the time! > > > > Oh, gosh, I'm trying to remember some non-skeptical theories about > > bilocation, since I'm sure we all know those. :) ... I guess one would > > be what Haunter would most likely say, that perhaps the babysitter was > > psychic and, sensing the mother thinking about the baby, her mind > > fashioned an image of the mother looking at the baby (assuming I'm > > remembering your account correctly). > > But that would still have a psychic explanation. What would the skeptical > theory be besides that the person lied? Oh, you know--hallucination, false memory, coincidence ... -- Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2b3e0.1715696@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 53 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 14:51:01 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-7Qn57MnKYQBW9Mjp28s6y/ofFAHDDNvlTLvwRzlnJw80MTxfZkfgQ38cecKww2Ht2dZgNeAnIbqvnu2!2j3MJVtHrPWTGEN9wG3Qo9YzU4YDP2Fa3FnLdP3vrYdoHejS263OnK9fPP10euPRNJCH/ocUyAH/!RSt72kw5ug== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:51:01 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!news-in-sanjose!in.nntp.be!easynews!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72397 In article <3bc2b3e0.1715696@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 01:06:06 GMT, Janice wrote: > >Oh, gosh, I'm trying to remember some non-skeptical theories about > >bilocation, since I'm sure we all know those. :) ... I guess one would > >be what Haunter would most likely say, that perhaps the babysitter was > >psychic and, sensing the mother thinking about the baby, her mind > >fashioned an image of the mother looking at the baby (assuming I'm > >remembering your account correctly). > > ...or the mother was thinking about the baby and slipped out-of body > and went to check on the baby. For the babysitter, it was the genuine > Mother who appeared beside the cot, albeit acting oddly. Yes, I think I recall Lorene asking about that aspect, why the mother would look like a solid person and not an airy phantasm. > Meanwhile, we could all still see her body sitting on a chair but > could no longer 'feel' her presence. Do you know that feeling when the > person sitting beside you in a meeting or on a train suddenly seems to > vanish? I often turn to look and see whether they are still there. > Their bodies remain but they are 'away with the fairies' as my > Grandmother used to say. There are folkloric traditions of bilocation, eg. the "fetch" or double of a person appearing as a foreboding of the person's death if seen at night, or as an omen of long life if seen in the morning. > Padre Pio was excellent at bilocation, able to carry on two > interesting and recorded conversations simultaneously whilst appearing > to groups of epeople several hundred miles apart. Now, if we could all > learn to do this, think how useful it would be for international > business meetings, and economical on jet fuel. You could 'stay in > touch' with all your friends and family and still get on with your own > life... Hm, I wonder though if one could necessarily count on a phantasm to think and behave exactly as one might want. My thoughts are flitting to Alexandra David-Neel and her jolly thought-form monk who supposedly became dark and troublesome over time. :) -- Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bc3757b.738956@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2b3e0.1715696@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 36 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 22:38:55 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.96.140 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1002667150 62.255.96.140 (Tue, 09 Oct 2001 23:39:10 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 23:39:10 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.euro.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72414 On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:51:01 GMT, Janice wrote: >Hm, I wonder though if one could necessarily count on a phantasm to think >and behave exactly as one might want. My thoughts are flitting to >Alexandra David-Neel and her jolly thought-form monk who supposedly >became dark and troublesome over time. :) In my opinion Channelling is a very dangerous art and should only be handled with extreme care and in a consistently safe space. By abdicating the responsibility to hold the space, the channeller makes an unsafe place for many of the attending group by not providing the holding energies in which people can open up in a safe way. In the few moments of their existence,the four people I have channelled have all made bids for their control of me. However, I do remember clearly every word that they uttered, and I was aware of them at the time. In a teaching situation, the teacher is responsible for the safety of his or her class. Otherwise, the persona is a total loss of control. I may well be wrong, I often am. However, the instinct of my Higher Self in such matters is all I can cling to. It has, after all, rescued me from the brink of suicide four times in recent months. With a person's natural compassion and urges to heal, why would a channeller permitt her/him to wound her students, and perhaps, through them, their clients? There is no benefit in allowing any persona other than your Higher Self to control episodes of your life. All Channellers need to address this issue at some point. Every channeler I have ever met believes that the channeled persona is better than them, so deserves the sacrifice of the individual. Yet the individual's own strength of goodness invited the channeled being to perform through them. If control is abdicated, truth is lost too. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 11 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 22:38:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.96.140 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1002667153 62.255.96.140 (Tue, 09 Oct 2001 23:39:13 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 23:39:13 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72417 On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:37:29 GMT, Janice wrote: >> But that would still have a psychic explanation. What would the skeptical >> theory be besides that the person lied? > >Oh, you know--hallucination, false memory, coincidence ... No, I don't understand those things. The sceptic can only resent that someone else is being listened to other than them. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 20:29:55 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-5CqZgqigXrKGjyY7SSM3Zm9LHWNWWr7XlTjg46ChDwK8AQGGmKNH/RTUOuj94v6pSmhkq6TZC3lNELd!hRAxwuvqBHd6myf6M377jDMGHPBR8SQVqiVtbyQ1CYozRjc6SkOxGGFcbzY/IRshImlvBJOj5Plc!qaowc3ZeZw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:29:55 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nf3.bellglobal.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72453 In article <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:37:29 GMT, Janice wrote: > >> But that would still have a psychic explanation. What would the skeptical > >> theory be besides that the person lied? > > > >Oh, you know--hallucination, false memory, coincidence ... > > No, I don't understand those things. The sceptic can only resent that > someone else is being listened to other than them. Sometimes that may be it. Not always, though. I didn't want to go into all that, but Lorene asked ... -- Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Organization: Happy Noodle Boy! References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) Reply-To: myers@mac.invalid X-Face: "w/5:'{b21!-UbG8:}Tk?P%!\!n(cgznyt]sJL5N2_2bsRhGTRJ%UX!Wx%GgGA.Ri]*PQJB>y%sHxmrIRlVPU/3\@JI8H}KHLQbbzA)1j,*4mxqqt\}[L"XpE1\C7xg2mJH]NelCKASP;xvO'}"W(8y+kf,EyaeHk"h.DUlJ-L%p+jk|E1i0V>_$(5nnx,'GnM^%Sd0V Message-ID: Lines: 29 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:36:42 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.116.146 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1002677802 206.146.116.146 (Tue, 09 Oct 2001 20:36:42 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 20:36:42 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72421 In article , Janice wrote: > In article <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:37:29 GMT, Janice wrote: > > >> But that would still have a psychic explanation. What would the skeptical > > >> theory be besides that the person lied? > > > > > >Oh, you know--hallucination, false memory, coincidence ... Yeah, and I will always consider simple stupidity before I ascribe something to maliciousness. > > > > No, I don't understand those things. The sceptic can only resent that > > someone else is being listened to other than them. > > Sometimes that may be it. Not always, though. Rarely. The concern isn't that someone should accept *my* answer, but that they should consider *any* rational answer before they launch into the kind of ludicrous tales of which Julia is so fond. > > I didn't want to go into all that, but Lorene asked ... -- pz ###### From: fakeID@whatever.ca (skippydee) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bc3a4ac.5682374@news.lynx.net> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3BC25E43.63089F39@Home.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Lynx Communications Inc. Cache-Post-Path: news1.lynx.bc.ca!unknown@vanip-128-079.eseenet.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 66 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:37:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.82.88.221 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:37:28 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news1.tor.metronet.ca!news1.cal.metronet.ca!news1.van.metronet.ca!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72410 On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 02:21:57 GMT, Tien Yen wrote: >Janice wrote: >> >> In article <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- >> moore@ntlworld.com says... >> > On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:53:25 GMT, Janice wrote: >> > >Some people would call this kind of thing bilocation rather than OBE. >> > >> > Probably. How do you think it worked? No-one but the baby was asleep >> > and dreaming at the time! >> >> Oh, gosh, I'm trying to remember some non-skeptical theories about >> bilocation, since I'm sure we all know those. :) ... I guess one would >> be what Haunter would most likely say, that perhaps the babysitter was >> psychic and, sensing the mother thinking about the baby, her mind >> fashioned an image of the mother looking at the baby (assuming I'm >> remembering your account correctly). >> >> > The other night, I imagined myself lying beside my absent lover >> > as I was about to fall asleep (1am) and fondly patted his back. >> > He rang me the next morning to ask whether it was me who woke him at >> > 1am by patting his back. I fondly hope it was me, and no-one else! Hey, Julia, I tried to send ya some vibes Saturday at 12:45am (PDT). Main engines were lit (all buzzed up), but no lift off...I kept getting distracted by a gut ache and then a voice in my head said something like, "what's going to happen next will frighten you." Great. It would've been interesting to get out, because I've only had apparent interactions with people I've known and met in person (for one of those experiences, I had no clue where the target person lived--did you say you lived in the UK? If so, I guess my attempt happened around 8:45am your time). And, no, I didn't pat your lover's bum! >> >> It wasn't me! :) > > >lol Reminds me of a time back in '96. I awoke to a very clear image of >my gf at the time. I had the oportunity to telephone her at work the >next day (1000 miles away). > >"you woke me this morning" > >"yes, I know" > >"What time?" > >"3:38 am" > >The time I noticed on my clock was 3:40; allowing for two minutes >difference on my bedside clock it seemed reasonably significant. There >were many such 'significant' events. It's a (very big) hit! Welcome back Tien--haven't seen you post here in a while. I won't ask you the details of the above, because it seems that a 'spiritual' interaction can sometimes translate into a sexual dream (nudge nudge, wink wink). I felt a hand on my shoulder wake me at 2:06am a few years ago. The day before that I found out that a friend had died--her radio dispatch # at work had been 206. She wasn't my gf, of course, but after that I also had "many such 'significant' events." leo ###### From: fakeID@whatever.ca (skippydee) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bc4a58f.5909509@news.lynx.net> References: <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Lynx Communications Inc. Cache-Post-Path: news1.lynx.bc.ca!unknown@vanip-128-079.eseenet.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 18 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:41:15 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.82.88.221 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:41:15 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.uunet.ca!news1.van.metronet.ca!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72407 On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:36:42 GMT, pz wrote: >In article , > Janice wrote: > >> In article <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- >> moore@ntlworld.com says... >> > On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:37:29 GMT, Janice wrote: >> > >> But that would still have a psychic explanation. What would the skeptical >> > >> theory be besides that the person lied? >> > > >> > >Oh, you know--hallucination, false memory, coincidence ... > >Yeah, and I will always consider simple stupidity before I ascribe >something to maliciousness. [...] If OJ did that, he likely wouldn't have ended up in court again... ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2b3e0.1715696@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc3757b.738956@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 20:56:49 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-5Vt89+FfJ9lDyoy0uydjnhxiCC37JCwI6Vsa1RvYrJ8jFL1PQspvYQD4GHPt6ONEPyBhb8lpykzVRQG!Q/2RkV2dJ5WFjPZghYegEt3+Sz4v26sDpEdmysk1pdO1LPk922QajdEzLEkdiyRoCGC593RYon65!vi4AD55UUg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:56:49 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!surfnet.nl!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!easynews!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72448 In article <3bc3757b.738956@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- moore@ntlworld.com says... > I may well be wrong, I often am. However, the instinct of my Higher > Self in such matters is all I can cling to. It has, after all, rescued > me from the brink of suicide four times in recent months. Good gracious, suicidal tendencies won't do at all, not on my watch. Please allow me to offer a bit of my own abundant good cheer and bouyant well-wishes to cling to as well. -- Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Organization: Happy Noodle Boy! References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2b3e0.1715696@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc3757b.738956@news.ntlworld.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) Reply-To: myers@mac.invalid X-Face: "w/5:'{b21!-UbG8:}Tk?P%!\!n(cgznyt]sJL5N2_2bsRhGTRJ%UX!Wx%GgGA.Ri]*PQJB>y%sHxmrIRlVPU/3\@JI8H}KHLQbbzA)1j,*4mxqqt\}[L"XpE1\C7xg2mJH]NelCKASP;xvO'}"W(8y+kf,EyaeHk"h.DUlJ-L%p+jk|E1i0V>_$(5nnx,'GnM^%Sd0V Message-ID: Lines: 20 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 02:03:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.116.146 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1002679382 206.146.116.146 (Tue, 09 Oct 2001 21:03:02 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 21:03:02 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72420 In article , Janice wrote: > In article <3bc3757b.738956@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > > I may well be wrong, I often am. However, the instinct of my Higher > > Self in such matters is all I can cling to. It has, after all, rescued > > me from the brink of suicide four times in recent months. > > Good gracious, suicidal tendencies won't do at all, not on my watch. > Please allow me to offer a bit of my own abundant good cheer and bouyant > well-wishes to cling to as well. I shouldn't think it at all necessary. With four failed attempts in a few months, it seems she'll be spared by virtue of her own incompetence...or, more likely, she's only angling for sympathy. -- pz ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 21:08:51 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-V0TypuwOkP+QnuvSaJ1+q51VP9oJE7VzCQKUpqf5cax6+U1SFcMVs1AbmXaaK4S8GmkDVwVbQII76fq!eQ+WfRxei11xr4ISNntr2s5AzgKGJZUvDzG6tokMYp+gqveNX6TFS1QiQrO0asvqYOlNWDQgF3sC!yh2/ZduZ X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 02:08:51 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.siscom.net!216.166.61.6.MISMATCH!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72450 In article , pzm@mac.com says... > Yeah, and I will always consider simple stupidity before I ascribe > something to maliciousness. To whom is that maxim attributed? I've forgotten. -- Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Organization: Happy Noodle Boy! References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) Reply-To: myers@mac.invalid X-Face: "w/5:'{b21!-UbG8:}Tk?P%!\!n(cgznyt]sJL5N2_2bsRhGTRJ%UX!Wx%GgGA.Ri]*PQJB>y%sHxmrIRlVPU/3\@JI8H}KHLQbbzA)1j,*4mxqqt\}[L"XpE1\C7xg2mJH]NelCKASP;xvO'}"W(8y+kf,EyaeHk"h.DUlJ-L%p+jk|E1i0V>_$(5nnx,'GnM^%Sd0V Message-ID: Lines: 21 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 02:23:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.146.116.146 X-Complaints-To: abuse@onvoy.com X-Trace: news7.onvoy.net 1002680623 206.146.116.146 (Tue, 09 Oct 2001 21:23:43 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 21:23:43 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!news7.onvoy.net.POSTED!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72422 In article , Janice wrote: > In article , pzm@mac.com > says... > > > Yeah, and I will always consider simple stupidity before I ascribe > > something to maliciousness. > > To whom is that maxim attributed? I've forgotten. You mean it wasn't me? "Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by stupidity"...unfortunately, I've heard the quote ascribed to Napoleon Bonaparte, Mark Twain, Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlein, and Richard Feynmann. Most likely, it's such an old and self-evident truth that the source is lost. -- pz ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bc3f39a.1598745@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3BC25E43.63089F39@Home.com> <3bc3a4ac.5682374@news.lynx.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 32 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 07:24:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.99.159 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1002698663 62.255.99.159 (Wed, 10 Oct 2001 08:24:23 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 08:24:23 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72419 On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:37:28 GMT, fakeID@whatever.ca (skippydee) wrote: >Hey, Julia, I tried to send ya some vibes Saturday at 12:45am (PDT). Thanks! I have discovered that contacts happen simultaneously, right across the world. I get confused by timezones, however. Is there any easy easy way to calculate the time in another country - somewhere I saw a wall of clocks, each keeping different times and labelled with the name of the country keeping that time. >Main engines were lit (all buzzed up), but no lift off...I kept >getting distracted by a gut ache and then a voice in my head said >something like, "what's going to happen next will frighten you." >Great. It would've been interesting to get out, because I've only had >apparent interactions with people I've known and met in person (for >one of those experiences, I had no clue where the target person >lived--did you say you lived in the UK? If so, I guess my attempt >happened around 8:45am your time). Yes, UK indeed. Saturday. I would have been rushing the children around to get them to the swimming pool at that moment. I am often aware of other people sending me their thoughts and love, as their name and face pop into my mind. But I only see them clearly and can converse if I am meditating. That is why it is such fun to prearrange and agree visits. > And, no, I didn't pat your lover's bum! Well, thank goodness for that! Love from Julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bc3f581.2085314@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2b3e0.1715696@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc3757b.738956@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 9 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 07:24:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.99.159 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1002698664 62.255.99.159 (Wed, 10 Oct 2001 08:24:24 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 08:24:24 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet-peer!btnet!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72415 On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:56:49 GMT, Janice wrote: >Good gracious, suicidal tendencies won't do at all, not on my watch. >Please allow me to offer a bit of my own abundant good cheer and bouyant >well-wishes to cling to as well. Well, I am honoured to accept that from you, Janice! Things are steadily improving, mind! Love from Julia Julia ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com> <3BC3B420.9B360A4E@Home.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 32 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 03:08:17 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-ICN/i2jRv+y20QmPmB9U67SEQqaABFaateWRYuNiRodCAVnaPaytQd4tldAeer/IZ+XpkL7G0M/c6G0!i/udYr+i4yfcz76fPNnNjznnofBYyjG1QQEuTOcPJPE1SUgbjqPIQoiMz1GzxCdSFlAZ+wuQPP47!dSX2N8pbfQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 08:08:17 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72449 In article <3BC3B420.9B360A4E@Home.com>, TienYen@Home.com says... > Janice wrote: > > > > In article , pzm@mac.com > > says... > > > > > Yeah, and I will always consider simple stupidity before I ascribe > > > something to maliciousness. > > > > To whom is that maxim attributed? I've forgotten. > > Forgive me, but I don't believe you've forgotten, my Queen. I certainly had. Why would you think that? I know Gunnar used to use it but I also know that he didn't invent it. After searching for it I see that it's known as "Hanlon's Razor," which was the name that escaped me. I didn't know that "Hanlon" didn't exist, however (or was at best a corruption of "Heinlein") and that the quote had been attributed to all manner of possible originators. -- Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: An interesting incident Lines: 37 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 04:46:37 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.7 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1002710690 216.241.33.7 (Wed, 10 Oct 2001 04:44:50 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 04:44:50 MDT Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72454 Janice wrote in message news:MPG.162c849c4631b6c0989c6f@news.starlinx.com... > In article , not-me@not- > here.net says... > > In article <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- > > moore@ntlworld.com says... > > > On Wed, 26 Sep 2001 17:53:25 GMT, Janice wrote: > > > Oh, gosh, I'm trying to remember some non-skeptical theories about > > bilocation, since I'm sure we all know those. :) ... > > What a screwed up sentence. I meant that I'd try to remember some non- > skeptical theories because we all know the skeptical ones. That's how I took it. I'm still trying to figure out how it could have been taken differently? Oh wait, just got it. Hahahaha. Big Blooper there Janice. But of course it really couldn't be read that way since if you knew all those, then why would you be having a hard time remembering them? ;) Ken > > -- > > Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.--Despair, > Inc. > > My homepage: http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ > > The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html > > The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2b3e0.1715696@news.ntlworld.com> Subject: Re: An interesting incident Lines: 53 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 04:52:47 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.7 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 1002711065 216.241.33.7 (Wed, 10 Oct 2001 04:51:05 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 04:51:05 MDT Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!feed1.newsreader.com!news-out.visi.com!hermes.visi.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72458 Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message news:3bc2b3e0.1715696@news.ntlworld.com... > On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 01:06:06 GMT, Janice wrote: > >Oh, gosh, I'm trying to remember some non-skeptical theories about > >bilocation, since I'm sure we all know those. :) ... I guess one would > >be what Haunter would most likely say, that perhaps the babysitter was > >psychic and, sensing the mother thinking about the baby, her mind > >fashioned an image of the mother looking at the baby (assuming I'm > >remembering your account correctly). > > ...or the mother was thinking about the baby and slipped out-of body > and went to check on the baby. For the babysitter, it was the genuine > Mother who appeared beside the cot, albeit acting oddly. > > Meanwhile, we could all still see her body sitting on a chair but > could no longer 'feel' her presence. Do you know that feeling when the > person sitting beside you in a meeting or on a train suddenly seems to > vanish? I often turn to look and see whether they are still there. > Their bodies remain but they are 'away with the fairies' as my > Grandmother used to say. > > Padre Pio was excellent at bilocation, able to carry on two > interesting and recorded conversations simultaneously whilst appearing > to groups of epeople several hundred miles apart. Now, if we could all > learn to do this, think how useful it would be for international > business meetings, and economical on jet fuel. You could 'stay in > touch' with all your friends and family and still get on with your own > life... Unfortunately, I don't think it works this way. When bilocated, each person would be experiencing the event for themselves, but upon recombining, only one of the events would be remembered, but not both. It's similar (seems to me) to the story of the drill seargent that had an OBE right in the middle of a drill! He could see himself yelling at the troops from his vantage point overhead, but was not conscious of what the physical seargent was thinking, only what he was saying and (I am assuming) therefore would not be aware of what the thoughts were upon re-entering. Ken > > > >> The other night, I imagined myself lying beside my absent lover > >> as I was about to fall asleep (1am) and fondly patted his back. > >> He rang me the next morning to ask whether it was me who woke him at > >> 1am by patting his back. I fondly hope it was me, and no-one else! > > > >It wasn't me! :) > > He knew that! > Love from Julia > Julia ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Date: 10 Oct 2001 06:43:42 -0700 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 27 Message-ID: <9q1jae0jkg@drn.newsguy.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-182.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.90 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72411 In message-id , pz wrote: > >In article , > Janice wrote: > >> In article , pzm@mac.com >> says... >> >> > Yeah, and I will always consider simple stupidity before I ascribe >> > something to maliciousness. >> >> To whom is that maxim attributed? I've forgotten. > >You mean it wasn't me? > >"Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by >stupidity"...unfortunately, I've heard the quote ascribed to Napoleon >Bonaparte, Mark Twain, Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlein, and Richard >Feynmann. Most likely, it's such an old and self-evident truth that the >source is lost. > Sherilyn's addendum: never underestimate the maliciousness of the stupid. :) -- Sherilyn The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send me unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail. ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bc453df.2480972@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2b3e0.1715696@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 46 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:29:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.96.100 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1002724184 62.255.96.100 (Wed, 10 Oct 2001 15:29:44 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 15:29:44 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service X-Received-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 15:31:53 BST (newsr2.u-net.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!cleanfeed.casema.net!leda.casema.net!newsr2.u-net.net!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72418 On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 04:52:47 -0600, "The Original Ken" wrote: >> Padre Pio was excellent at bilocation, able to carry on two >> interesting and recorded conversations simultaneously whilst appearing >> to groups of epeople several hundred miles apart. Now, if we could all >> learn to do this, think how useful it would be for international >> business meetings, and economical on jet fuel. You could 'stay in >> touch' with all your friends and family and still get on with your own >> life... > >Unfortunately, I don't think it works this way. When bilocated, each person >would be experiencing the event for themselves, but upon recombining, only >one of the events would be remembered, but not both. It's similar (seems to >me) to the story of the drill seargent that had an OBE right in the middle >of a drill! He could see himself yelling at the troops from his vantage >point overhead, but was not conscious of what the physical seargent was >thinking, only what he was saying and (I am assuming) therefore would not be >aware of what the thoughts were upon re-entering. Hmmm. This goes back to the old Channelling problem I mentioned above. People who channel tend to not remember anything about the channelling (or possession) afterwards. I find this very disturbing . I have an old schoolfriend who is the only ordained voudou priest in the UK, and a Shamanic Practitioner. When he was in Haiti, he watched other people become possessed/channel the standard Haitian spirits, and those people swore that they could remember nothing of it afterwards. However, he did beome possessed and even though he watched his own body writhing around screaming and plunging its hands into pots of boiling oil (with no injury or sensation of pain), he remembered the process entirely and was aware of it happening. When I have been forced to channel (and I loathe it for various reasons) part of my mind has been aware and watching, albeit not participating. Perhaps we have a self-protection operating (like your drill sergeant) which allows us to observe but not to actually experience the thoughts and feelings. That way the body remains uninjured by the boiling oil etc. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bc45660.3122522@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2b3e0.1715696@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc3757b.738956@news.ntlworld.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 29 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:29:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.96.100 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1002724185 62.255.96.100 (Wed, 10 Oct 2001 15:29:45 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 15:29:45 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!opentransit.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72412 On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 01:56:49 GMT, Janice wrote: >> I may well be wrong, I often am. However, the instinct of my Higher >> Self in such matters is all I can cling to. It has, after all, rescued >> me from the brink of suicide four times in recent months. > >Good gracious, suicidal tendencies won't do at all, not on my watch. >Please allow me to offer a bit of my own abundant good cheer and bouyant >well-wishes to cling to as well. I ought to elaborate on this really. Part of training in shamanism is to experience a series of lesser deaths so that you can overcome the fear of your own death. Gruelling but necessary if you want to do the kind of work Shamans do. A lot of shamans start their training after they have a Near-death Experience. This proves to them that there is something which survives the body and can travel outside of it. Basically, it's an attitude about surviving a series of small deaths so that you can befriend Death itself. Then the Shaman walks the boundaries between Death and Life, Reality and Other realities. They learn how to control space and time. All oobe stuff put to good purpose. Only by going to the brink and returning can the Shaman bring back the dead, the dying, the injured, the lost souls they heal. The pleasures are dubious, the venues can be horrible, but Shamanism does work when nothing else does. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: pz Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 12:33:57 -0500 Organization: Happy Noodle Boy! Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com> <9q1jae0jkg@drn.newsguy.com> Reply-To: myers@mac.invalid X-Trace: laurel.tc.umn.edu 1002735236 14302 146.57.32.36 (10 Oct 2001 17:33:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@laurel.tc.umn.edu User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) X-Face: "w/5:'{b21!-UbG8:}Tk?P%!\!n(cgznyt]sJL5N2_2bsRhGTRJ%UX!Wx%GgGA.Ri]*PQJB>y%sHxmrIRlVPU/3\@JI8H}KHLQbbzA)1j,*4mxqqt\}[L"XpE1\C7xg2mJH]NelCKASP;xvO'}"W(8y+kf,EyaeHk"h.DUlJ-L%p+jk|E1i0V>_$(5nnx,'GnM^%Sd0V Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsmi-eu.news.garr.it!newsmi-us.news.garr.it!NewsITBone-GARR!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!dca6-feed2.news.digex.net!intermedia!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!vixen.cso.uiuc.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!laurel.tc.umn.edu!pzm Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72429 In article <9q1jae0jkg@drn.newsguy.com>, Sherilyn wrote: > In message-id , pz wrote: > > > >In article , > > Janice wrote: > > > >> In article , pzm@mac.com > >> says... > >> > >> > Yeah, and I will always consider simple stupidity before I ascribe > >> > something to maliciousness. > >> > >> To whom is that maxim attributed? I've forgotten. > > > >You mean it wasn't me? > > > >"Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by > >stupidity"...unfortunately, I've heard the quote ascribed to Napoleon > >Bonaparte, Mark Twain, Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlein, and Richard > >Feynmann. Most likely, it's such an old and self-evident truth that the > >source is lost. > > > Sherilyn's addendum: never underestimate the maliciousness of the stupid. :) PZ's obvious corrolary: Stupidity does not preclude malice, and vice versa. -- pz ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Date: 10 Oct 2001 11:35:15 -0700 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 37 Message-ID: <9q24d3021dj@drn.newsguy.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-052.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.90 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72406 In message-id , pz wrote: > >In article , > Janice wrote: > >> In article <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes- >> moore@ntlworld.com says... [...] > >> > >> > No, I don't understand those things. The sceptic can only resent that >> > someone else is being listened to other than them. >> >> Sometimes that may be it. Not always, though. > >Rarely. The concern isn't that someone should accept *my* answer, but >that they should consider *any* rational answer before they launch into >the kind of ludicrous tales of which Julia is so fond. To which I'd add that you'll often (in fact, usually) find the skeptics disagreeing with one another on an issue, but often if you look beyond the disagreement you'll see that there's a congruence of shared reason. It is, after all, how you can recognise a skeptic, by the fancies that he doesn't place into his chain of reasoning. Most of Julia's quacking and barking at skeptics comes from some quite mildly expressed criticism that goes her way when she presents her extraordinary fancies as fact. The solution here, if Julia doesn't like her ideas being exposed to criticism, is to cease presenting them as fact, alternatively to present evidence to support them. [...] -- Sherilyn The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send me unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail. ###### From: fakeID@whatever.ca (skippydee) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bc49496.1391349@news.lynx.net> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3BC25E43.63089F39@Home.com> <3bc3a4ac.5682374@news.lynx.net> <3BC3B2EC.BF41004F@Home.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Lynx Communications Inc. Cache-Post-Path: news1.lynx.bc.ca!unknown@vanip-128-013.eseenet.com X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 66 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:40:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.82.88.221 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 12:40:29 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news1.tor.metronet.ca!news1.cal.metronet.ca!news1.van.metronet.ca!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72405 On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 02:35:28 GMT, Tien Yen wrote: >skippydee wrote: >> >> On Tue, 09 Oct 2001 02:21:57 GMT, Tien Yen wrote: > >> > >> >lol Reminds me of a time back in '96. I awoke to a very clear image of >> >my gf at the time. I had the oportunity to telephone her at work the >> >next day (1000 miles away). >> > >> >"you woke me this morning" >> > >> >"yes, I know" >> > >> >"What time?" >> > >> >"3:38 am" >> > >> >The time I noticed on my clock was 3:40; allowing for two minutes >> >difference on my bedside clock it seemed reasonably significant. There >> >were many such 'significant' events. >> >> It's a (very big) hit! >> Welcome back Tien--haven't seen you post here in a while. > >Been too busy :( As you know, this weekend was Thanksgiving, so I got >some free time. > >> I won't ask you the details of the above, because it seems that a >> 'spiritual' interaction can sometimes translate into a sexual dream >> (nudge nudge, wink wink). > >Well, yeah, sometimes the spiritual manifests in the physical ;> > >> I felt a hand on my shoulder wake me at 2:06am a few years ago. The >> day before that I found out that a friend had died--her radio dispatch >> # at work had been 206. She wasn't my gf, of course, but after that I >> also had "many such 'significant' events." >> leo > >Sorry to hear about your friend. Seems these things are more likely to >happen in extreme circumstances. Any 'significant' events you'd care to >share? > >Take care, >Tien Yen For two of the events, I can't give the details (it's regarding some people I know) but the result (probably the purpose) of the events was to make me see things in a more constructive way. One event was like an incredible replay of something that had happened a few years previous, and it happened at 2:06pm. That was a week or two after the 'hand on shoulder' thing. The other event was an instructive dream (involving those same people) and I woke up right after the dream and it was 2:06am on my digital watch (I wasn't home then, so didn't have my digital clock). This happened around April of this year. Aside from that I had some short oob interactions with her and she may have been present for a few healing obe's. There were a lot of other coincidences regarding the time (and number 206) but I can't read too much into those--I was very aware of a number, so I tended to notice that number a lot more. leo ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com> <9q24d3021dj@drn.newsguy.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 14:33:11 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-ZIfBpHCG0FXNOxPlF8+5iW9XABTcvbzX7yW1JPI4UrHRb+PUFjUQ/C4xIgGHIs3xqslAs5AdwblATJV!P97l4DYPqrSfqVhh/nUJYCZSKjlajadvauCdM7B2zu0/gk5S455TLyAlQb4kfWmHodTZgv80r0vi!9UfEA7o= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 19:33:11 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72435 In article <9q24d3021dj@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org says... > The solution here, if Julia doesn't like her ideas being > exposed to criticism, is to cease presenting them as fact, alternatively to > present evidence to support them. Or to post in whatever manner she chooses and ignore skeptical criticisms. -- Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Date: 10 Oct 2001 12:33:40 -0700 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 28 Message-ID: <9q27qk02aab@drn.newsguy.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2b3e0.1715696@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc453df.2480972@news.ntlworld.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-996.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.90 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72477 In message-id <3bc453df.2480972@news.ntlworld.com>, julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com wrote: > [...] >. >I have an old schoolfriend who is the only ordained voudou priest in >the UK, and a Shamanic Practitioner. When he was in Haiti, he watched >other people become possessed/channel the standard Haitian spirits, >and those people swore that they could remember nothing of it >afterwards. > >However, he did beome possessed and even though he watched his own >body writhing around screaming and plunging its hands into pots of >boiling oil Damn, don't you just hate it when that happens! (with no injury or sensation of pain), he remembered the >process entirely and was aware of it happening. They need a visit from the health and safety, obviously. ;) [...] -- Sherilyn The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send me unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail. ###### Message-ID: <3BC4A630.7F601DC6@home.com> From: Bruha ha Reply-To: hp9jnk2001@home.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com> <9q1jae0jkg@drn.newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 41 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 19:48:20 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.70.89.60 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news2.rdc1.ab.home.com 1002743300 24.70.89.60 (Wed, 10 Oct 2001 12:48:20 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 12:48:20 PDT Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news2.rdc1.ab.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72630 Sherilyn wrote: > In message-id , pz wrote: > > > >In article , > > Janice wrote: > > > >> In article , pzm@mac.com > >> says... > >> > >> > Yeah, and I will always consider simple stupidity before I ascribe > >> > something to maliciousness. > >> > >> To whom is that maxim attributed? I've forgotten. > > > >You mean it wasn't me? > > > >"Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by > >stupidity"...unfortunately, I've heard the quote ascribed to Napoleon > >Bonaparte, Mark Twain, Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlein, and Richard > >Feynmann. Most likely, it's such an old and self-evident truth that the > >source is lost. > > > Sherilyn's addendum: never underestimate the maliciousness of the stupid. :) Sherilyn's Corollary ;-j > > -- > Sherilyn > The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not > send me unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail. -- ANTI SPAM: Replace '2001' with '41' to email ###### From: julia.hawkes-moore@ntlworld.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: <3bc4bf9b.13849649@news.ntlworld.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com> <9q24d3021dj@drn.newsguy.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 15 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:46:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.255.8.87 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 1002750389 62.255.8.87 (Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:46:29 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 22:46:29 BST Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!194.42.224.136!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72505 On Wed, 10 Oct 2001 19:33:11 GMT, Janice wrote: >In article <9q24d3021dj@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org >says... > >> The solution here, if Julia doesn't like her ideas being >> exposed to criticism, is to cease presenting them as fact, alternatively to >> present evidence to support them. > >Or to post in whatever manner she chooses and ignore skeptical >criticisms. Thank you, Janice. Love from Julia Julia ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Date: 10 Oct 2001 16:41:37 -0700 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 23 Message-ID: <9q2mbh0hh6@drn.newsguy.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com> <9q24d3021dj@drn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-949.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.90 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72475 In message-id , Janice wrote: > >In article <9q24d3021dj@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org >says... > >> The solution here, if Julia doesn't like her ideas being >> exposed to criticism, is to cease presenting them as fact, alternatively to >> present evidence to support them. > >Or to post in whatever manner she chooses and ignore skeptical >criticisms. Of course. That's implicit in my clause "if Julia doesn't like her ideas being exposed to criticism." If she doesn't mind, USENET is the best place to post. Anyone whom I might criticise can always console themselves that their critic herself habitually ignores far more criticism, of far greater volume though often of somewhat lower quality. -- Sherilyn The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send me unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail. ###### From: Sherilyn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Date: 10 Oct 2001 16:44:41 -0700 Organization: Newsguy News Service [http://newsguy.com] Lines: 39 Message-ID: <9q2mh90hv0@drn.newsguy.com> References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com> <9q1jae0jkg@drn.newsguy.com> <3BC4A630.7F601DC6@home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-981.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Direct Read News 2.90 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!drn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72470 In message-id <3BC4A630.7F601DC6@home.com>, Bruha wrote: > > > >Sherilyn wrote: > >> In message-id , pz wrote: >> > >> >In article , >> > Janice wrote: >> > >> >> In article , pzm@mac.com >> >> says... >> >> >> >> > Yeah, and I will always consider simple stupidity before I ascribe >> >> > something to maliciousness. >> >> >> >> To whom is that maxim attributed? I've forgotten. >> > >> >You mean it wasn't me? >> > >> >"Never attribute to malice that which can adequately be explained by >> >stupidity"...unfortunately, I've heard the quote ascribed to Napoleon >> >Bonaparte, Mark Twain, Isaac Asimov, Robert Heinlein, and Richard >> >Feynmann. Most likely, it's such an old and self-evident truth that the >> >source is lost. >> > >> Sherilyn's addendum: never underestimate the maliciousness of the stupid. :) > >Sherilyn's Corollary ;-j > It doesn't follow, though. It's more in the nature of a lemma to PZ's triumphant proof that people can be stupid and malicious at one and the same time. -- Sherilyn The suespammers.org mail server is located in California; do not send me unsolicited bulk e-mail or unsolicited commercial e-mail. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: An interesting incident Message-ID: References: <3bb083d0.164202@news.ntlworld.com> <3bb131da.7367102@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <3bb1793f.702447@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc2298e.4606662@news.ntlworld.com> <3bc377eb.1363426@news.ntlworld.com> <9q24d3021dj@drn.newsguy.com> <9q2mbh0hh6@drn.newsguy.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:44:54 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-hAMAgT8Ml5pvO9EBYuUGrsKWBM7SJAk4PdDcg5QXY8nruyVdciDFeZpcyImyxjRkTzhx2UqtFjIOU1w!bxXjVVIh1CvnMTc0CFbT+u+UAS0+LSDlqVc2CI05iHaRsii0OTyXeWPh4jLWL05y4mZvCNmQ0bNr!TzWxFB4dyA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 01:44:54 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!border1.nntp.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin1.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:72610 In article <9q2mbh0hh6@drn.newsguy.com>, sherilyn@suespammers.org says... > Anyone whom I might criticise can always console themselves that their critic > herself habitually ignores far more criticism, of far greater volume though > often of somewhat lower quality. And much cruder. -- Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.--Despair, Inc. My homepage: http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ The alt.out-of-body newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.html The alt.dreams.lucid newsgroup homepage: http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/home.html