From: "William Bliss" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <593da164.0108252329.70803fa2@posting.google.com> <3b892785.612847@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <593da164.0108270121.5f161e82@posting.google.com> <3b8af09a.6453932@news1.on.sympatico.ca> <593da164.0108301404.61139cef@posting.google.com> <9moff7$n0v$4@sloth.swcp.com> <3B9124E2.C3E61BE9@edenroad.demon.co.uk> Subject: Most OT, Matter & Energy? was Re: Quantum OOBE? (Was re: question) Lines: 130 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Trace: MTMwIE5vQXV0aFVzZXIgVEVMT0NJVFktUkVBREVSUyA2NC4zNC4yMzguMjI1ICBTdW4sIDAyIFNl!cCAyMDAxIDExOjA1OjQxIFBEVA== X-Abuse-Info: Please forward ALL headers when reporting abuse. X-Complaints-To: abuse@bb.directv.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2001 11:05:41 PDT Date: Sun, 2 Sep 2001 14:00:04 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.netcologne.de!news.stealth.net!216.227.56.88.MISMATCH!telocity-west!TELOCITY!newsrump.sjc.telocity.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:71082 "David Mitchell" wrote in message news:3B9124E2.C3E61BE9@edenroad.demon.co.uk... > Crowfoot wrote: > > > > At the risk of sounding like an idjit, William, let me ask you -- is > > there a theory out there these days that proposes the idea (excuse > > my clumsy language and probably clumsy thinking here, I am not any sort > > of scientist) that energy is the basic "stuff" out of which the > > universe is made and that matter is energy clotted together very > > tightly, that is, very sticky energy? Crowfoot, first I want to say that in my view, to be a "scientist" a person needs to do just three simple things: 1) Make a concerted effort to review and study the topic of interest. (read the literature) 2) Think very hard and dispassionately about the topic. (logic is a good dispassionate medium) 3) Share their thoughts with others. (usually by writting (but not necessarily in refereed journals) ). From what I've read of your posts, I consider you fully qualified to think of yourself as a scientist (I do). Now a disclaimer: I'm not a QCD physicist and I'm not very knowledgable about deeper intricacies of the "standard model" or quantum gravity (etc). Even if I was I doubt that I could answer your question, in a few paragraphs, without lots of other, more knowledgable, people rightfully taking exception to my words. Dispite this, I do enjoy teaching and part of the teachers dilemma is deciding what known falsehoods will be taught along the way to a deeper truth. I guess the trick is to teach useful abstractions that can be used for thinking about things with out those abstractions later becoming consciousness limiting beliefs. (Now that being said) Energy and matter: Matter is definitely "sticky". Neutrons stick to protons, electrons stick to nuclei and atoms often stick to each other. This stickyness is due to one of the two forms of energy, one that depends on relative position, potential energy. The other energy form is kinetic energy or energy of relative motion. Now the cool thing is, that both of these energy forms can be thought of as being composed of the same "stuff". In fact this stuff may also explain mass (or matter) which some people think of as a third form of energy but IMO can more easily be thought of as just more stuff. This "stuff" is the psi wave of quantum mechanics. Even though many physical relations (equations) use a single point (or event) in their calculations (Coulomb force), very few physicists think of subatomic entities as being actual point-like particles. These useful point based relations are almost always wrapped up in a more complete equation whose solution has the form of a time and space varying (wave-like) function (or more often, many functions). This function is often called a psi wave or just "the wave function". In fact, the waves we call light or radio waves are simply the psi waves of a photon, the "particle" of light. Photons seem to be the only particles that nature restricts to just one speed, the speed of light (c). Photons carry energy which is proportional to their frequency. They can give up part of this energy by "bouncing" off other particles (even other photons in rare cases) but they can only give up all their energy when they somehow fully collide with a particle that is capable of absorbing all of the photon's energy and momentum. This complete transference process, from a highly spread out wave into a tightly localized wave (the absorbing particle), is one of the big mysteries of physics. One very useful abstract notion is to think of a subatomic particle as being formed out of photons that have had their motion somehow caught up in tight little circles. These photons hold the energy of this particle and also give us a mental image that helps explain other properties such as spin and magnetic moment. Of course, we don't know what the structure of a photon is, and until we do this notion will remain abstract. Using this notion, the mass of a particle can be thought of as being related to the necessary increase in frequency of the constituent photons which is required to make their path trace out a helix rather than a circle and resulting in the particle moving slowly forward. The more energetic the original constituent photons the more additional energy will be required to make the particle move. Kinetic Energy (KE) can now be thought of as simply resulting from the change in effective mass of this now moving particle in comparison to it's original mass. So, now both mass and KE can be thought of as psi waves. Finally we have enough notions to suggest an explanation of potential energy. For a photon, which is just a wave, to be able to "catch" its tail and thus move in a circle, there must be an effect from one part of the wave (the tail say) to the other part of the wave (the head say). This effect then causes the photon's head to turn along the circle. This effect could also be described as a wave to wave force. Other types of wave to wave forces pop up all over the place (Fermi exclusion principle). So, it isn't difficult to think of waves that become oriented to each other, in a certain way, as creating a mutually refractive influence that results in these waves being either repelled or attracted to each other. The reason I say there are two basic forms of energy rather than just one (the psi wave itself) is simply because this wave-wave refraction is not well enough understood to be a useful theory. So, to return to your question, It seems that what ever makes up these psi waves is really the "foundation" of the physical Universe. Psi waves seem to conserve frequency and this results in our famous "conservation of energy" law. They also can "stick" together which creates force fields (potential energy) which, in turn, create sticky particles (matter). In other words you've been correct all along. One final comment, designed to open the minds of skeptics... If we allow ourselves to consider what a psi wave is actually made out of, we become forced to admit there is nothing in physics that rules out the idea that our physical Universe might actually be a solid and not a vacuum. In this view psi waves become a type of complicated sound wave traveling through this solid. [...] > There are "Theories of Everything" which are based on concepts which > sound like woo-woo "everything is vibration" ideas; but they're a little > more well-defined than those. I agree David. And, I might add, they're kind-of fun too! Wm