From: "Michael" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Is There Life After Death? Organization: Universal Way X-Newsreader: Microsoft Internet Mail & News for Macintosh - 3.0c (405) Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lines: 184 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 09:52:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 151.198.151.9 X-Complaints-To: business-support@verizon.com X-Trace: typhoon1.gnilink.net 998905932 151.198.151.9 (Mon, 27 Aug 2001 05:52:12 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 05:52:12 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamfinder.gnilink.net!typhoon1.gnilink.net.POSTED!!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:70812 Is There Life After Death? Original article found at; http://www.universalway.org/lifeafterdeath.html Many people in the world today are quite circumspect about the nature of the "death" experience which can be discerned from a study of the historical and modern-day research materials available. Even though historical discourses about the "death" experience are remarkably confirmed by modern-day studies into near-death and out-of-body experiences, many people are unaware of this information, and when they start to familiarize themselves with the information when they begin to perform research, they find that the conclusions to which they must come are often in conflict with their own religious teachings, and in conflict with the doctrines of many of the religious systems of the world. A general pattern can be discerned regarding the death experience, from a study of the historical and modern-day materials available; 1) Floating above your physical body and viewing the scene of your "death." 2) Moving down a tunnel towards the Light at the end of the tunnel. 3) Feeling overcome by love or terror when meeting the Light/God/Jesus/Buddha. 4) Meeting past relatives and/or friends and/or beings who console and advise you. 5) Experiencing a review of your life and a judgment of your life's actions. 6) Coming to some sort of new understanding about your life and/or the workings of the Universe. 7) Going back to your previous life, if appropriate; or, in final death, moving into your next dimensional existential realm. Variations of the general pattern can and will occur, depending on many factors, however, at final death, no adult life form can expect to avoid the life review and karmic judgment. Sources to confirm the nature of death; Moody, Raymond A. Jr., Life After Life; The Investigation Of A Phenomenon - Survival Of Bodily Death (Bantam Books, 1976); Reflections On Life After Life (Bantam Books, 1977); The Light Beyond (Bantam Books, 1989); Coming Back; A Psychiatrist Explores Past Life Journeys (Bantam Books, 1992). Kubler-Ross, Elisabeth, On Death And Dying (MacMillan, 1969); Living With Death And Dying (MacMillan, 1981). Morse, Melvin, Closer To The Light (Ivy Books, 1990). Fisher, Joe; Whitton, Joel L., Life Between Life (Warner Books, 1986). Ramacharaka, Yogi, The Life Beyond Death (Yogi Publication Society, 1937). Evans-Wentz, W.Y., editor, The Tibetan Book Of The Dead (Oxford University Press, 1960); editor, The Tibetan Book Of The Great Liberation (Oxford University Press, 1954). Additional Internet resources relating to the subject matter of the nature of death can be found at the following; International Association for Near-Death Studies (IANDS) - http://www.iands.org/ Dr. Raymond Moody Jr. - http://www.lifeafterlife.com/ Insights Into the Afterlife: 30 Questions and Answers on What to Expect - http://ils.unc.edu/inls300/usr/kaplr/doc18.htm Near Death Experiences - Dr. George Ritchie - http://www.near-death.com/ritch.html The Plane of Hell - http://www.near-death.com/experiences/ritchie4.html Meeting Jesus Christ - http://www.near-death.com/experiences/ritchie1.html SpiritWeb: NDE, Near Death Experience - http://www.spiritweb.org/Spirit/nde.html Adventures Beyond the Body - http://www.out-of-body.com/ Spirit Online: Astral Projection & Out-of-body experiences - http://www.spiritonline.com/obe/ Eternal Spirit: Practical Spiritualism, For Those Who Want To Know - http://www.eternal.ndirect.co.uk/frame1.htm God - http://www.eternal.ndirect.co.uk/page14.htm Near-Death Experiences - http://www.mindspring.com/~scottr/end.html Personal Accounts of near death experience - http://www.mindspring.com/~scottr/nde/_accounts.html 400 Life After Death Links - http://www.mysteries-megasite.com/main/bigsearch/afterdeath-1.html The Tibetan Book of the Dead - http://www.lib.virginia.edu/exhibits/dead/ Perhaps a good example of the great paradox of the death experience, is the fact that so many fervently "religious" orthodox fundamentalists who have experienced a near-death encounter, and who beforehand had persecuted and condemned so many people to hell for "eternity" for their personality and lifestyle, often report that afterwards, they went through a series of remarkable spiritual changes that resulted in a new personality and lifestyle of their own, one that treats all people with much greater respect and compassion, including some of the same people whom they have previously so fervently persecuted and condemned. Ironically, it will be found that it is fervently "religious" orthodox fundamentalists who most often deny and refute the historical and modern-day information which is available about the death experience ( http://www.near-death.com/bible.html ), and this might be expected since it will also be found that the general pattern that is discerned from research into the historical and modern-day materials available strongly suggests that the criteria that is used for the life judgment that is encountered as part of the death experience is, in fact, extremely unfavorable towards the general personality and karmic lifestyle stereotype of fervently "religious" orthodox fundamentalists. Among such people who have experienced their own near-death encounter, only the most deeply disturbed have continued to live their lives in a similar manner as before, ignoring the lessons which were imparted and denying and refuting the validity of their own death experience, and the death experiences of other people. Furthermore, conversely, another good example of the great paradox of the death experience, is the fact that while homosexual people are generally persecuted and often condemned to hell for "eternity" by many of the doctrines of the religious systems of the world, the general pattern that is discerned from research into the historical and modern-day materials available, conversely strongly suggests that the criteria that is used for the life judgment that is encountered as part of the death experience is, in fact, extremely favorable towards the general personality and karmic lifestyle stereotype of homosexual people. All of this research, once considered by most people to be in the theoretical realm and speculative by nature, is now buttressed by recent scientific studies that have apparently provided sufficient evidence, and reasonable proof, that there is, in fact, some sort of life after death, and can provide a basis for future research and can provide spiritual empowerment for people who study the already available accounts and the other research material available. These recent scientific studies have been a result of modern-day techniques used in high-risk operations on the human brain, where the blood is completely drained from the patient, producing a flat-line response in heart and brain functions (essentially, physical death), while at the same time, upon return of the blood to the body and resuscitation, the patient has subsequently reported close variations of the classic near-death experience, a seemingly impossible conundrum, since such experiences have long been held by many skeptics as being manifestations of the functions and complications of the human brain, and whereby such experiences have been reported as occurring at the same specific time as the brain of the patient was registering a flat-line response regarding brain activity. Thus, such controlled experimental operations are now providing a scientifically acceptable glimpse into future possible realms of existence, realms of existence which may provide people as individuals, and civilization collectively, with new and different information regarding ways of life and forms of government which are evident in those future possible dimensional realms of existence. Thus, for people who, for whatever reasons, deny and refute the historical and modern-day information which is available, now is the time to deal with the subject matter of life after "death," by using the logic of basic form, and where the pertinent starting point for so many people appears to reside within the questions "Is there life after death?" and "What happens to people when they die?" Using the logic of basic form, there can be only two possibilities; 2 Degrees of Separation: 1) [Repulsion; "-"] There is no life after death, and there is nothing available for people when they die, and; 2) [Attraction; "+"] There is life after death, and there is something more than nothing available for people when they die. It can be reasonably concluded that the above two possibilities are the only basic elements to be considered within the subject matter, and thus the arguments that follow continue with logical extrapolations therein. 1) Repulsion (-); There is no life after death, and there is nothing available for people when they die. The rest of the article can be found at; http://www.universalway.org/lifeafterdeath.html ----------- Michael ----------- ###### From: "William Bliss" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: Subject: Re: Is There Life After Death? Lines: 29 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Trace: MjkgTm9BdXRoVXNlciBURUxPQ0lUWS1SRUFERVJTIDY0LjM0LjIzOC4yMjUgIE1vbiwgMjcgQXVn!IDIwMDEgMTE6Mzk6NDUgUERU X-Abuse-Info: Please forward ALL headers when reporting abuse. X-Complaints-To: abuse@bb.directv.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:39:45 PDT Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 14:34:16 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!telocity-west!TELOCITY!newsrump.sjc.telocity.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:70838 Hi Michael, I liked much of what your article says. Your sources are interesting and many of your conclusions are sound. One minor correction, though, most NDE'rs who experienced a life review came back with the feeling that they and they alone were the judges of their life so far. I do, however, take a strong exception to your "Repulsion (-)" thesis. I think I can defend the idea that acceptable morals can be derived via logic and without the need for a judging authority. (But I'll wait till you ask, as it's a tad OT) Wm "Michael" wrote in message news:gLoi7.574$Jm2.93482@typhoon1.gnilink.net... > Is There Life After Death? > > Original article found at; > http://www.universalway.org/lifeafterdeath.html [...] > 1) Repulsion (-); There is no life after death, and there is nothing available > for people when they die. ###### From: Crowfoot Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Is There Life After Death? Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:40:09 -0700 Organization: Southwest Cyberport Lines: 58 Message-ID: <9mkj6c$ihh$1@sloth.swcp.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: q13-21.swcp.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.siscom.net!feeder.nmix.net!feeder.swcp.com!sloth.swcp.com!suzych Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:70931 In article , "William Bliss" wrote: > Hi Michael, > > I liked much of what your article says. > Your sources are interesting and many of your conclusions > are sound. One minor correction, though, most NDE'rs who > experienced a life review came back with the feeling that > they and they alone were the judges of their life so far. I've seen that too, in most of the experiences I've come across. It's yourself you are responsible to, and I think moreover "judging" isn't the point of life review; it's an evaluation, yes, but more in terms of deciding whether to continue on the course chosen in the interrupted life or not: as in, hey, I meant to pay some karma I owe to X, but I've chickened out and ducked the job so far -- maybe this isn't such a good life for doing that as it's turned out, so maybe a radical change of course for a re-embarkation on the current life would be a more productive course. After a completed death experience, it seems to me that the evaluation is done not to much to "judge" and condemn as to spot the failures and successes, mourn and rejoice appropriately, and create the basis for the chosen parameters of the next lifetime. As, hey, I meant to pay back my karma to X this last time around but chickened out, so it's still to be accomplished but will have to wait til my karmic creditor is incarnated again at the same time that I am; or, having tried a life with a lot of drive in it last time, maybe a ife with comparatively few demands and goals might be the best option -- a sort of resting life as a beach bum on a nice warm island somewhere. I think we have been seriously misled by Christian theology into this idea that there has to be a "judgement" in the sense of a measurement against some fixed scale of morality, rather than judgement in the sense of an evaluation as the basis of making choices about the terms of the next life to be embarked upon. Crow > Wm > > "Michael" wrote in message > news:gLoi7.574$Jm2.93482@typhoon1.gnilink.net... > > Is There Life After Death? > > > > Original article found at; > > http://www.universalway.org/lifeafterdeath.html > [...] > > 1) Repulsion (-); There is no life after death, and there is nothing > available > > for people when they die. > > > > -- Crow ###### From: "William Bliss" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <9mkj6c$ihh$1@sloth.swcp.com> Subject: Re: Is There Life After Death? Lines: 82 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Trace: ODIgTm9BdXRoVXNlciBURUxPQ0lUWS1SRUFERVJTIDY0LjM0LjIzOC4yMjUgIFRodSwgMzAgQXVn!IDIwMDEgMDU6NTQ6MDEgUERU X-Abuse-Info: Please forward ALL headers when reporting abuse. X-Complaints-To: abuse@bb.directv.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 05:54:01 PDT Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 08:48:30 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!telocity-west!TELOCITY!newsrump.sjc.telocity.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:71015 Hi Crow, Right on! I like to use simple (and fun) analogies. Let's say you were mentoring the life review of a mouse. You noticed that everyday the mouse had left its nest and pissed on some electrical wires nearby. One day those wires shorted out and caused the nuclear reactor, they were connected to, to melt down, killing the mouse. Would you scold the mouse? Or would you commend him for being tidy and not pissing in his nest near his offspring? Our decisions can only be judged in the context of what we know, not by some unknown Universal system. Your astute comments remind me of another funny religious concept: "the angry God". Sheesh! Wm "Crowfoot" wrote in message news:9mkj6c$ihh$1@sloth.swcp.com... > In article , "William > Bliss" wrote: > > > Hi Michael, > > > > I liked much of what your article says. > > Your sources are interesting and many of your conclusions > > are sound. One minor correction, though, most NDE'rs who > > experienced a life review came back with the feeling that > > they and they alone were the judges of their life so far. > > I've seen that too, in most of the experiences I've come across. It's > yourself you are responsible to, and I think moreover "judging" isn't > the point of life review; it's an evaluation, yes, but more in terms > of deciding whether to continue on the course chosen in the interrupted > life or not: as in, hey, I meant to pay some karma I owe to X, but > I've chickened out and ducked the job so far -- maybe this isn't such > a good life for doing that as it's turned out, so maybe a radical > change of course for a re-embarkation on the current life would be a > more productive course. > > After a completed death experience, it seems to me that the evaluation > is done not to much to "judge" and condemn as to spot the failures and > successes, mourn and rejoice appropriately, and create the basis for > the chosen parameters of the next lifetime. As, hey, I meant to pay > back my karma to X this last time around but chickened out, so it's > still to be accomplished but will have to wait til my karmic creditor > is incarnated again at the same time that I am; or, having tried a life > with a lot of drive in it last time, maybe a ife with comparatively few > demands and goals might be the best option -- a sort of resting life as > a beach bum on a nice warm island somewhere. > > I think we have been seriously misled by Christian theology into this > idea that there has to be a "judgement" in the sense of a measurement > against some fixed scale of morality, rather than judgement in the > sense of an evaluation as the basis of making choices about the > terms of the next life to be embarked upon. > > Crow > > > Wm > > > > "Michael" wrote in message > > news:gLoi7.574$Jm2.93482@typhoon1.gnilink.net... > > > Is There Life After Death? > > > > > > Original article found at; > > > http://www.universalway.org/lifeafterdeath.html > > [...] > > > 1) Repulsion (-); There is no life after death, and there is nothing > > available > > > for people when they die. > > > > > > > > > -- > Crow ###### From: Crowfoot Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Is There Life After Death? Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:03:12 -0700 Organization: Southwest Cyberport Lines: 39 Message-ID: <9moc2k$ll2$1@sloth.swcp.com> References: <9mkj6c$ihh$1@sloth.swcp.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: q13-21.swcp.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed.icl.net!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!sienna.impulse.net!feeder.nmix.net!feeder.swcp.com!sloth.swcp.com!suzych Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:70925 In article , "William Bliss" wrote: > Hi Crow, > > Your astute comments remind me of another funny religious > concept: "the angry God". Sheesh! > > Wm Thanks for the compliment, and ditto on the angry God; a concept that leads people to make the most horrific sacrifices, often of *other* people, in a vain attempt to alter the laws of physical life so as to duck them. I had a friend who complained that she would like just one life that she could get out of unscathed; there came the response, "You *come* here to be scathed", meaning the physical world is the *only* place that an evolving soul can gain the experience of dealing with all apsects of physicality, which is why the soul bothers to in- carnate at all. *All* aspects, including the "negative" ones; they are built into the experience of living in the world. It isn't because some big ol' man in the sky with a long white beard is annoyed with you that a mud- slide carries away your house (or your neighbor's house, for that matter). It's because mudslides are one among many many hazards of physical life, and physical life is what you incarnated to experience. But it's not hard to see why people prefer to worry about a larger, more powerful, and entirely illusory idea of The Irritable Parent who might be "appeased" by this or that extreme act. We've all done it before and we'll do it again -- it's one way of coping, and another set of lessons undoubtedly involves finding out just what that way of coping entails, both good and bad, for yourself and those around you. That's how it looks to me this morning, anyway. Crow -- Crow