Message-ID: <3AB8166A.9491E802@home.com> From: Suzanne Organization: @Home Network X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en]C-AtHome0405 (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Turning Vivid Dreams Into Reality - An Article in "Wired" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 137 Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:45:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.67.6.118 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.ab.home.com 985142758 24.67.6.118 (Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:45:58 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:45:58 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.dplanet.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.ab.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:64877 Turning Vivid Dreams Into Reality by Donna Tapellini 2:00 a.m. Mar. 19, 2001 PST http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,41478,00.html For lucid dreamers, sleep can be even better than reality. Researchers at Stanford University are now developing software to help people become aware that they are having a dream so that they can then live out their fantasies during REM sleep. Oneironauts, or lucid dreamers, are conscious when they are having a dream and can control how the dream develops. During lucid dreams, people are "awake" within their dreams, and can sometimes direct what happens next in the dream. With enough practice you can fly, visit exotic places, experience vivid colors, or eat all the ice cream you want, all without taking your head off the pillow. Being awake during a dream may seem like a contradiction, but to those involved in lucid dream research, it's all, well, crystal clear. "Lucid dreaming lets you make use of the dream state that comes to you every night to have a stimulating reality," said Dr. Stephen LaBerge, founder of the Lucidity Institute at Stanford University, a research lab that teaches people how to have a lucid dream. LaBerge said that controlling dreams can also have therapeutic value. Potentially, he said, people can overcome nightmares that haunt them repeatedly. It may even help a person improve in sports, enhance self-confidence or confront problems that elude being solved in waking life. Exploring the World of Lucid Dreaming, a book co-authored by LaBerge and Howard Rheingold, is one of many books to help wannabe lucid dreamers get started. The Lucidity Institute offers a variety of tools for people set on taking charge of their subconscious life. The Institute's SuperNovaDreamer kit includes a copy of LaBerge's book, and the kit recommends reading a few chapters before getting started. The book asks that you learn to recognize "dreamsigns," or signals within a dream that alert you to your altered state. One common dreamsign: elements within your dream are out of context. Objects are not where they belong within a room, or certain people are in locations they normally wouldn't be -- how often do your parents drop in at the office? The NovaDreamer includes a mask that tracks eye movement to recognize when you're in REM as well as to determine the amount of time you take to get to sleep. Depending on how you configure NovaDreamer (a determination made partially on the basis of how light or heavy a sleeper you are), the NovaDreamer flashes a series of red lights into your (hopefully closed) eyes, providing yet another signal that you are dreaming and can now do whatever you please in the dream. LaBerge advises novice lucid dreamers to be patient, adding it can take as long as four months or more to regularly have lucid dreams. LaBerge's research indicates that when a person does something in their dreams, the experience may be closer to reality than you'd think. Early experiments show that lucid dreamers have a good comprehension of time while dreaming. Researchers that asked lucid dreamers to move their eyes in a specific pattern, and then repeat the pattern 10 seconds later, found they did so in about the correct amount of time. LaBerge said dreaming of doing something causes the same reaction in your brain waves as actually doing it. During REM sleep, says LaBerge, "the brain is working full-tilt, yet it is disconnected from the outside world. If you dream of doing a long jump, your brain reacts the same way it would if you actually did it." LaBerge, who is studying the mind-body relationships of lucid dreamers, believes that controlling your dreams may also improve your health. "It's totally possible we'll find a way to use it to enhance healing, because there's a very strong mind-body connection during REM sleep," LaBerge said. Although he admits that the ability to use dreams to cure illness is mere speculation at this point, he said there is anecdotal evidence that lucid dreamers may be able to contribute to their own healing processes. Most applications of lucid dreaming remain in the very early research stages, LaBerge said. "We've been focusing on access to the state (of lucid dreaming)," he said. How practical those other applications are will depend in part on how easy it is to get people into a lucid-dream state. For example, Tibetan Buddhists, avid practitioners of lucid dreaming for more than 1,000 years, devote years to meditative practice that helps them refine their techniques. For the rest of us, learning to control your dreams is something like learning to play the piano -- some will find it easier than others. "But it's a lot easier than it was 20 years ago, when there weren't any techniques," LaBerge said. Lucid dreams are also helping scientists understand the nature of all dreams. "By watching the signals provided (by the lucid dreamer), we can come a little closer to getting information about a dream as it occurs," said Dr. Alfred Kaszniak, a neuropsychologist, and the director of the Center for Consciousness Studies at the University of Arizona. Monitoring a lucid dream provides more accurate information than waking a subject up since people will forget or edit their dreams. "Lucid dreaming also gives us a very different way of asking questions about the nature of consciousness during sleep," Kaszniak adds. "(A lucid dream state) actually satisfies certain criteria of consciousness." With enough effort, just about anyone can induce lucid dreaming, Kaszniak said. But some people are more predisposed to it than others, he said. Those with sensitive inner ears have a better chance of lucid dreaming. People with a greater sensitivity to the force of gravity are more likely to vividly conjure up images of flying, which in turn helps them become lucid in their dreams. Last summer, Stanford University hosted a 10-day conference that included lectures, lucid-dreaming practice and a visit to the dream lab to watch research in action. In May, the Lucidity Institute will take enthusiasts on a seven-day trip to Hawaii for a lucid-dreaming retreat. ###### From: not-me@not-here.net (Janice) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Turning Vivid Dreams Into Reality - An Article in "Wired" Message-ID: <3ab820ea.3338850@news.starlinx.com> References: <3AB8166A.9491E802@home.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 130 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:42:46 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-z0WkGPf+cgLGb13CJwTGtukByfmZbUk3Ye2p4i4Zo6EfalPaPt5QHomYXGGPZD8JYzRMxgQYjtk14Pr!/y7kG58R/oERlKNU8DkfAuns8/oXfj2J2chE6JZYB4b3JPze0daz9hxjlosQtiDxVsmSw509 X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 03:46:32 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:64857 On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:45:58 GMT, Suzanne wrote: >Turning Vivid Dreams Into Reality >by Donna Tapellini > >2:00 a.m. Mar. 19, 2001 PST >http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,41478,00.html > >For lucid dreamers, sleep can be even better than reality. > >Researchers at Stanford University are now developing software to help >people become aware that they are having a dream so that they can then >live out their fantasies during REM sleep. > >Oneironauts, or lucid dreamers, are conscious when they are having a >dream and can control how the dream develops. During lucid dreams, >people are "awake" within their dreams, and can sometimes direct what >happens next in the dream. > >With enough practice you can fly, visit exotic places, experience vivid >colors, or eat all the ice cream you want, all without taking your head >off the pillow. Although the amount of practice required varies enormously. It took me years and years of extensive practice to be any good at lucid dream flying. >Being awake during a dream may seem like a contradiction, but to those >involved in lucid dream research, it's all, well, crystal clear. > >"Lucid dreaming lets you make use of the dream state that comes to you >every night to have a stimulating reality," said Dr. Stephen LaBerge, >founder of the Lucidity Institute at Stanford University, a research lab > >that teaches people how to have a lucid dream. > >LaBerge said that controlling dreams can also have therapeutic value. >Potentially, he said, people can overcome nightmares that haunt them >repeatedly. Sometimes. I've found that it's quite useless against nightmares that are caused by pervasive fear in waking life, however. >It may even help a person improve in sports, There are reports of this, mostly from the German LD researcher Paul Tholey. However, lucid dreams can be so unrealistic that it's entirely possible to do far, far better or far, far worse in them than you would at the same activity in waking, making them a bit questionable as a form of practice. >enhance >self-confidence or confront problems that elude being solved in waking >life. I won't even get started on that one, because it leads into my biggest point of disagreement with LaBerge. .... > >LaBerge, who is studying the mind-body relationships of lucid dreamers, >believes that controlling your dreams may also improve your health. > >"It's totally possible we'll find a way to use it to enhance healing, >because there's a very strong mind-body connection during REM sleep," >LaBerge said. Although he admits that the ability to use dreams to cure >illness is mere speculation at this point, he said there is anecdotal >evidence that lucid dreamers may be able to contribute to their own >healing processes. And I can provide anecdotal evidence of lucid dreaming doing absolutely nothing for the healing process. Placebo effect, anyone? >Most applications of lucid dreaming remain in the very early research >stages, LaBerge said. "We've been focusing on access to the state (of >lucid dreaming)," he said. How practical those other applications are >will depend in part on how easy it is to get people into a lucid-dream >state. > >For example, Tibetan Buddhists, avid practitioners of lucid dreaming for > >more than 1,000 years, devote years to meditative practice that helps >them refine their techniques. Some of the Buddhist induction techniques are excruciating, involving taking on weird postures and breathing funny. All totally unnecessary. >For the rest of us, learning to control your dreams is something like >learning to play the piano -- some will find it easier than others. "But > >it's a lot easier than it was 20 years ago, when there weren't any >techniques," LaBerge said. > >Lucid dreams are also helping scientists understand the nature of all >dreams. "By watching the signals provided (by the lucid dreamer), we can > >come a little closer to getting information about a dream as it occurs," > >said Dr. Alfred Kaszniak, a neuropsychologist, and the director of the >Center for Consciousness Studies at the University of Arizona. >Monitoring a lucid dream provides more accurate information than waking >a subject up since people will forget or edit their dreams. > >"Lucid dreaming also gives us a very different way of asking questions >about the nature of consciousness during sleep," Kaszniak adds. "(A >lucid dream state) actually satisfies certain criteria of >consciousness." > >With enough effort, just about anyone can induce lucid dreaming, >Kaszniak said. But some people are more predisposed to it than others, >he said. Those with sensitive inner ears have a better chance of lucid >dreaming. People with a greater sensitivity to the force of gravity are >more likely to vividly conjure up images of flying, which in turn helps >them become lucid in their dreams. I wonder what he means by "greater sensitivity to the force of gravity." .... ------- The secret to success is knowing who to blame for your failures. --Despair, Inc. ------- http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.htm ###### From: "Dominic Catellier" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3AB8166A.9491E802@home.com> <3ab820ea.3338850@news.starlinx.com> Subject: Re: Turning Vivid Dreams Into Reality - An Article in "Wired" Lines: 140 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <22Wt6.5096$r%.119125@weber.videotron.net> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 23:24:49 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.200.124.176 X-Complaints-To: abuse@videotron.net X-Trace: weber.videotron.net 985148670 24.200.124.176 (Tue, 20 Mar 2001 23:24:30 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 23:24:30 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!news-out-sjo.usenetserver.com!wesley.videotron.net!weber.videotron.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:64865 Dominic "Syralid" Catellier ICQ: 40283938 E-Mail: dcatellier@videotron.ca "Janice" wrote in message news:3ab820ea.3338850@news.starlinx.com... > On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:45:58 GMT, Suzanne wrote: > > >Turning Vivid Dreams Into Reality > >by Donna Tapellini > > > >2:00 a.m. Mar. 19, 2001 PST > >http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,41478,00.html > > > >For lucid dreamers, sleep can be even better than reality. > > > >Researchers at Stanford University are now developing software to help > >people become aware that they are having a dream so that they can then > >live out their fantasies during REM sleep. > > > >Oneironauts, or lucid dreamers, are conscious when they are having a > >dream and can control how the dream develops. During lucid dreams, > >people are "awake" within their dreams, and can sometimes direct what > >happens next in the dream. > > > >With enough practice you can fly, visit exotic places, experience vivid > >colors, or eat all the ice cream you want, all without taking your head > >off the pillow. > > Although the amount of practice required varies enormously. It took > me years and years of extensive practice to be any good at lucid dream > flying. > > >Being awake during a dream may seem like a contradiction, but to those > >involved in lucid dream research, it's all, well, crystal clear. > > > >"Lucid dreaming lets you make use of the dream state that comes to you > >every night to have a stimulating reality," said Dr. Stephen LaBerge, > >founder of the Lucidity Institute at Stanford University, a research lab > > > >that teaches people how to have a lucid dream. > > > >LaBerge said that controlling dreams can also have therapeutic value. > >Potentially, he said, people can overcome nightmares that haunt them > >repeatedly. > > Sometimes. I've found that it's quite useless against nightmares that > are caused by pervasive fear in waking life, however. > > >It may even help a person improve in sports, > > There are reports of this, mostly from the German LD researcher Paul > Tholey. However, lucid dreams can be so unrealistic that it's > entirely possible to do far, far better or far, far worse in them than > you would at the same activity in waking, making them a bit > questionable as a form of practice. Whoa... this made me think about something... pulling matrix sort of moves in LDs!!! Dayum! My next experiment has been set! > >enhance > >self-confidence or confront problems that elude being solved in waking > >life. > > I won't even get started on that one, because it leads into my biggest > point of disagreement with LaBerge. > > .... > > > >LaBerge, who is studying the mind-body relationships of lucid dreamers, > >believes that controlling your dreams may also improve your health. > > > >"It's totally possible we'll find a way to use it to enhance healing, > >because there's a very strong mind-body connection during REM sleep," > >LaBerge said. Although he admits that the ability to use dreams to cure > >illness is mere speculation at this point, he said there is anecdotal > >evidence that lucid dreamers may be able to contribute to their own > >healing processes. > > And I can provide anecdotal evidence of lucid dreaming doing > absolutely nothing for the healing process. Placebo effect, anyone? > > >Most applications of lucid dreaming remain in the very early research > >stages, LaBerge said. "We've been focusing on access to the state (of > >lucid dreaming)," he said. How practical those other applications are > >will depend in part on how easy it is to get people into a lucid-dream > >state. > > > >For example, Tibetan Buddhists, avid practitioners of lucid dreaming for > > > >more than 1,000 years, devote years to meditative practice that helps > >them refine their techniques. > > Some of the Buddhist induction techniques are excruciating, involving > taking on weird postures and breathing funny. All totally > unnecessary. > > >For the rest of us, learning to control your dreams is something like > >learning to play the piano -- some will find it easier than others. "But > > > >it's a lot easier than it was 20 years ago, when there weren't any > >techniques," LaBerge said. > > > >Lucid dreams are also helping scientists understand the nature of all > >dreams. "By watching the signals provided (by the lucid dreamer), we can > > > >come a little closer to getting information about a dream as it occurs," > > > >said Dr. Alfred Kaszniak, a neuropsychologist, and the director of the > >Center for Consciousness Studies at the University of Arizona. > >Monitoring a lucid dream provides more accurate information than waking > >a subject up since people will forget or edit their dreams. > > > >"Lucid dreaming also gives us a very different way of asking questions > >about the nature of consciousness during sleep," Kaszniak adds. "(A > >lucid dream state) actually satisfies certain criteria of > >consciousness." > > > >With enough effort, just about anyone can induce lucid dreaming, > >Kaszniak said. But some people are more predisposed to it than others, > >he said. Those with sensitive inner ears have a better chance of lucid > >dreaming. People with a greater sensitivity to the force of gravity are > >more likely to vividly conjure up images of flying, which in turn helps > >them become lucid in their dreams. > > I wonder what he means by "greater sensitivity to the force of > gravity." > > .... > > ------- > > The secret to success is knowing > who to blame for your failures. --Despair, Inc. > > ------- > http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ > > http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.htm ###### From: not-me@not-here.net (Janice) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Turning Vivid Dreams Into Reality - An Article in "Wired" Message-ID: <3ab82f02.6947179@news.starlinx.com> References: <3AB8166A.9491E802@home.com> <3ab820ea.3338850@news.starlinx.com> <22Wt6.5096$r%.119125@weber.videotron.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 75 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:32:01 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-d6wzUFREEF1wnarkX0g2wwZ/rNpv8yheRAxaL6ZOr+gakby5mBv83VFneU9mGxbGzzHxRgGhb3k4zgV!0ztGcbZza9swY2vyEx5RHgqj20zN6Aw22C7naje/1DwPhnVRQTZSMWOPQ4Xkq3uAVL1JKDE9 X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 04:35:48 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:64855 On Tue, 20 Mar 2001 23:24:49 -0500, "Dominic Catellier" wrote: >Dominic "Syralid" Catellier >ICQ: 40283938 >E-Mail: dcatellier@videotron.ca >"Janice" wrote in message >news:3ab820ea.3338850@news.starlinx.com... >> On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:45:58 GMT, Suzanne wrote: >> >> >Turning Vivid Dreams Into Reality >> >by Donna Tapellini >> > >> >2:00 a.m. Mar. 19, 2001 PST >> >http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,41478,00.html >> > >> >For lucid dreamers, sleep can be even better than reality. >> > >> >Researchers at Stanford University are now developing software to help >> >people become aware that they are having a dream so that they can then >> >live out their fantasies during REM sleep. >> > >> >Oneironauts, or lucid dreamers, are conscious when they are having a >> >dream and can control how the dream develops. During lucid dreams, >> >people are "awake" within their dreams, and can sometimes direct what >> >happens next in the dream. >> > >> >With enough practice you can fly, visit exotic places, experience vivid >> >colors, or eat all the ice cream you want, all without taking your head >> >off the pillow. >> >> Although the amount of practice required varies enormously. It took >> me years and years of extensive practice to be any good at lucid dream >> flying. >> >> >Being awake during a dream may seem like a contradiction, but to those >> >involved in lucid dream research, it's all, well, crystal clear. >> > >> >"Lucid dreaming lets you make use of the dream state that comes to you >> >every night to have a stimulating reality," said Dr. Stephen LaBerge, >> >founder of the Lucidity Institute at Stanford University, a research lab >> > >> >that teaches people how to have a lucid dream. >> > >> >LaBerge said that controlling dreams can also have therapeutic value. >> >Potentially, he said, people can overcome nightmares that haunt them >> >repeatedly. >> >> Sometimes. I've found that it's quite useless against nightmares that >> are caused by pervasive fear in waking life, however. >> >> >It may even help a person improve in sports, >> >> There are reports of this, mostly from the German LD researcher Paul >> Tholey. However, lucid dreams can be so unrealistic that it's >> entirely possible to do far, far better or far, far worse in them than >> you would at the same activity in waking, making them a bit >> questionable as a form of practice. > > Whoa... this made me think about something... pulling matrix sort of >moves in LDs!!! Dayum! My next experiment has been set! I saw somebody recently say they managed that. Go for it! If my friend Ruth can ride a bicycle down steps while standing on the seat in a lucid dream, you can probably mimick a martial arts hotshot. :) ------- The only consistent feature of all your dissatisfying relationships is you.--Despair, Inc. ------- http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.htm ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3AB8166A.9491E802@home.com> <3ab820ea.3338850@news.starlinx.com> Subject: Re: Turning Vivid Dreams Into Reality - An Article in "Wired" Lines: 150 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:06:41 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.78.240.178 X-Trace: news2.atl 985183696 216.78.240.178 (Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:08:16 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:08:16 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news2.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:64819 "Janice" wrote in message news:3ab820ea.3338850@news.starlinx.com... : On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:45:58 GMT, Suzanne wrote: : : >Turning Vivid Dreams Into Reality : >by Donna Tapellini : > : >2:00 a.m. Mar. 19, 2001 PST : >http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,41478,00.html : > : >For lucid dreamers, sleep can be even better than reality. : > : >Researchers at Stanford University are now developing software to help : >people become aware that they are having a dream so that they can then : >live out their fantasies during REM sleep. : > : >Oneironauts, or lucid dreamers, are conscious when they are having a : >dream and can control how the dream develops. During lucid dreams, : >people are "awake" within their dreams, and can sometimes direct what : >happens next in the dream. : > : >With enough practice you can fly, visit exotic places, experience vivid : >colors, or eat all the ice cream you want, all without taking your head : >off the pillow. : : Although the amount of practice required varies enormously. It took : me years and years of extensive practice to be any good at lucid dream : flying. I have always flown in LD's with ease. My father has flown many times in LD's too with no problems. He usually has had this happen when he was ill though where it just seems the main thing to do when I am lucid. I guess because I know it's something I couldn't do in my awake life and it is so much fun to do in LD. : : >Being awake during a dream may seem like a contradiction, but to those : >involved in lucid dream research, it's all, well, crystal clear. : > : >"Lucid dreaming lets you make use of the dream state that comes to you : >every night to have a stimulating reality," said Dr. Stephen LaBerge, : >founder of the Lucidity Institute at Stanford University, a research lab : > : >that teaches people how to have a lucid dream. : > : >LaBerge said that controlling dreams can also have therapeutic value. : >Potentially, he said, people can overcome nightmares that haunt them : >repeatedly. : : Sometimes. I've found that it's quite useless against nightmares that : are caused by pervasive fear in waking life, however. : : >It may even help a person improve in sports, : : There are reports of this, mostly from the German LD researcher Paul : Tholey. However, lucid dreams can be so unrealistic that it's : entirely possible to do far, far better or far, far worse in them than : you would at the same activity in waking, making them a bit : questionable as a form of practice. : : >enhance : >self-confidence or confront problems that elude being solved in waking : >life. : : I won't even get started on that one, because it leads into my biggest : point of disagreement with LaBerge. Well in the sports area perhaps I can see this. Let's say you play a game of baseball and every time in LD you get a great hit and make a great play in the outfield. I could see how this could boost your confidence upon waking. : : .... : > : >LaBerge, who is studying the mind-body relationships of lucid dreamers, : >believes that controlling your dreams may also improve your health. : > : >"It's totally possible we'll find a way to use it to enhance healing, : >because there's a very strong mind-body connection during REM sleep," : >LaBerge said. Although he admits that the ability to use dreams to cure : >illness is mere speculation at this point, he said there is anecdotal : >evidence that lucid dreamers may be able to contribute to their own : >healing processes. : : And I can provide anecdotal evidence of lucid dreaming doing : absolutely nothing for the healing process. Placebo effect, anyone? : What about the monks who can control their body temperature with their minds and such. Wouldn't this be a varification of being able to perhaps learn to heal parts of the body as well? : >Most applications of lucid dreaming remain in the very early research : >stages, LaBerge said. "We've been focusing on access to the state (of : >lucid dreaming)," he said. How practical those other applications are : >will depend in part on how easy it is to get people into a lucid-dream : >state. : > : >For example, Tibetan Buddhists, avid practitioners of lucid dreaming for : > : >more than 1,000 years, devote years to meditative practice that helps : >them refine their techniques. : : Some of the Buddhist induction techniques are excruciating, involving : taking on weird postures and breathing funny. All totally : unnecessary. : : >For the rest of us, learning to control your dreams is something like : >learning to play the piano -- some will find it easier than others. "But : > : >it's a lot easier than it was 20 years ago, when there weren't any : >techniques," LaBerge said. : > : >Lucid dreams are also helping scientists understand the nature of all : >dreams. "By watching the signals provided (by the lucid dreamer), we can : > : >come a little closer to getting information about a dream as it occurs," : > : >said Dr. Alfred Kaszniak, a neuropsychologist, and the director of the : >Center for Consciousness Studies at the University of Arizona. : >Monitoring a lucid dream provides more accurate information than waking : >a subject up since people will forget or edit their dreams. : > : >"Lucid dreaming also gives us a very different way of asking questions : >about the nature of consciousness during sleep," Kaszniak adds. "(A : >lucid dream state) actually satisfies certain criteria of : >consciousness." : > : >With enough effort, just about anyone can induce lucid dreaming, : >Kaszniak said. But some people are more predisposed to it than others, : >he said. Those with sensitive inner ears have a better chance of lucid : >dreaming. People with a greater sensitivity to the force of gravity are : >more likely to vividly conjure up images of flying, which in turn helps : >them become lucid in their dreams. : : I wonder what he means by "greater sensitivity to the force of : gravity." : I don't know? I'd like to know as I always seem to conjure up images of flying. Also why does a sensitive inner ear give one a better chance of lucid dreaming? ###### From: not-me@not-here.net (Janice) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Turning Vivid Dreams Into Reality - An Article in "Wired" Message-ID: <3ab8f45b.1829039@news.starlinx.com> References: <3AB8166A.9491E802@home.com> <3ab820ea.3338850@news.starlinx.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 180 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:49:15 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-KsbzsMOZNhSGWXW9nFie9Z/79qMCujK+gCXiUhZkKPc/hOEzSjSdc4nK7nluw6oYum2xgnogPVwyIyW!YDARq5t+p/j4weJxGRUO4UjFdmAsMObeDbEcQOex6U+r4mQkc/hdZ4funf054iYl3kdqKcQq X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:53:02 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.dplanet.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!207.207.0.27!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:64890 On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:06:41 -0500, "lorz" wrote: > >"Janice" wrote in message >news:3ab820ea.3338850@news.starlinx.com... >: On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:45:58 GMT, Suzanne wrote: >: >: >Turning Vivid Dreams Into Reality >: >by Donna Tapellini >: > >: >2:00 a.m. Mar. 19, 2001 PST >: >http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,41478,00.html >: > >: >For lucid dreamers, sleep can be even better than reality. >: > >: >Researchers at Stanford University are now developing software to help >: >people become aware that they are having a dream so that they can then >: >live out their fantasies during REM sleep. >: > >: >Oneironauts, or lucid dreamers, are conscious when they are having a >: >dream and can control how the dream develops. During lucid dreams, >: >people are "awake" within their dreams, and can sometimes direct what >: >happens next in the dream. >: > >: >With enough practice you can fly, visit exotic places, experience vivid >: >colors, or eat all the ice cream you want, all without taking your head >: >off the pillow. >: >: Although the amount of practice required varies enormously. It took >: me years and years of extensive practice to be any good at lucid dream >: flying. > >I have always flown in LD's with ease. My father has flown many times in >LD's too with no problems. He usually has had this happen when he was ill >though where it just seems the main thing to do when I am lucid. I guess >because I know it's something I couldn't do in my awake life and it is so >much fun to do in LD. Yes, many people are good at dream flying from the get-go. But this is not invariable, so I think it's only fair to mention the variation involved. No one can accuse me of being underpracticed in lucid dreaming, yet it was still not easy for me to get good at this skill. >: >Being awake during a dream may seem like a contradiction, but to those >: >involved in lucid dream research, it's all, well, crystal clear. >: > >: >"Lucid dreaming lets you make use of the dream state that comes to you >: >every night to have a stimulating reality," said Dr. Stephen LaBerge, >: >founder of the Lucidity Institute at Stanford University, a research lab >: > >: >that teaches people how to have a lucid dream. >: > >: >LaBerge said that controlling dreams can also have therapeutic value. >: >Potentially, he said, people can overcome nightmares that haunt them >: >repeatedly. >: >: Sometimes. I've found that it's quite useless against nightmares that >: are caused by pervasive fear in waking life, however. >: >: >It may even help a person improve in sports, >: >: There are reports of this, mostly from the German LD researcher Paul >: Tholey. However, lucid dreams can be so unrealistic that it's >: entirely possible to do far, far better or far, far worse in them than >: you would at the same activity in waking, making them a bit >: questionable as a form of practice. >: >: >enhance >: >self-confidence or confront problems that elude being solved in waking >: >life. >: >: I won't even get started on that one, because it leads into my biggest >: point of disagreement with LaBerge. > > >Well in the sports area perhaps I can see this. Let's say you play a game of >baseball and every time in LD you get a great hit and make a great play in >the outfield. I could see how this could boost your confidence upon waking. I'm not concerned about the confidence building idea (since I think dream rehearsals can be useful for some things) so much as the solving waking problems idea. Even so, you have to wonder about the prospect of falsely building up your confidence level. I can beat up dream thugs with ease, but if I got the notion in my head that I can beat up real thugs as well, and tried it out, I think I'd get a hard dose of reality. >: >LaBerge, who is studying the mind-body relationships of lucid dreamers, >: >believes that controlling your dreams may also improve your health. >: > >: >"It's totally possible we'll find a way to use it to enhance healing, >: >because there's a very strong mind-body connection during REM sleep," >: >LaBerge said. Although he admits that the ability to use dreams to cure >: >illness is mere speculation at this point, he said there is anecdotal >: >evidence that lucid dreamers may be able to contribute to their own >: >healing processes. >: >: And I can provide anecdotal evidence of lucid dreaming doing >: absolutely nothing for the healing process. Placebo effect, anyone? >: > >What about the monks who can control their body temperature with their minds >and such. Wouldn't this be a varification of being able to perhaps learn to >heal parts of the body as well? But what does that have to do with lucid dreaming? Lucid dream healing techniques are based on the questionable premise that manipulating dream imagery automatically has an effect on what those "symbols" represent in the body or psyche, and you'll never convince me that that is the case, because the theoretical basis of that idea is unsound and because I have direct experience to the contrary. The healing may work, or seem to work, sometimes, but it doesn't work all the time, so it is not inherent to the manipulation of dream imagery and additional factors must be involved when it does, such as the placebo effect. >: >Most applications of lucid dreaming remain in the very early research >: >stages, LaBerge said. "We've been focusing on access to the state (of >: >lucid dreaming)," he said. How practical those other applications are >: >will depend in part on how easy it is to get people into a lucid-dream >: >state. >: > >: >For example, Tibetan Buddhists, avid practitioners of lucid dreaming for >: > >: >more than 1,000 years, devote years to meditative practice that helps >: >them refine their techniques. >: >: Some of the Buddhist induction techniques are excruciating, involving >: taking on weird postures and breathing funny. All totally >: unnecessary. >: >: >For the rest of us, learning to control your dreams is something like >: >learning to play the piano -- some will find it easier than others. "But >: > >: >it's a lot easier than it was 20 years ago, when there weren't any >: >techniques," LaBerge said. >: > >: >Lucid dreams are also helping scientists understand the nature of all >: >dreams. "By watching the signals provided (by the lucid dreamer), we can >: > >: >come a little closer to getting information about a dream as it occurs," >: > >: >said Dr. Alfred Kaszniak, a neuropsychologist, and the director of the >: >Center for Consciousness Studies at the University of Arizona. >: >Monitoring a lucid dream provides more accurate information than waking >: >a subject up since people will forget or edit their dreams. >: > >: >"Lucid dreaming also gives us a very different way of asking questions >: >about the nature of consciousness during sleep," Kaszniak adds. "(A >: >lucid dream state) actually satisfies certain criteria of >: >consciousness." >: > >: >With enough effort, just about anyone can induce lucid dreaming, >: >Kaszniak said. But some people are more predisposed to it than others, >: >he said. Those with sensitive inner ears have a better chance of lucid >: >dreaming. People with a greater sensitivity to the force of gravity are >: >more likely to vividly conjure up images of flying, which in turn helps >: >them become lucid in their dreams. >: >: I wonder what he means by "greater sensitivity to the force of >: gravity." >: > >I don't know? I'd like to know as I always seem to conjure up images of >flying. Also why does a sensitive inner ear give one a better chance of >lucid dreaming? He might be thinking of Jayne Gackenbach's finding that people with a good sense of balance make better lucid dreamers. ------- The only consistent feature of all your dissatisfying relationships is you.--Despair, Inc. ------- http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.htm