From: "William Bliss" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3ab036f9$0$65271$38c90ffe@news1.twtelecom.net> <97Yr6.1899$25.1048811@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> <3ab0504d.6113853@news.starlinx.com> Subject: Wm's rendition of the IIPC's theory of Intrusion Lines: 147 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <8H_r6.2373$25.1152295@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> X-Trace: 2dzfyKaHqZ2cgL2bjZrIvK2kp6uhvLHFuq2prK26u8je3Mbb3Mba29DG2trdyMi8gJ3EyNndyKWJ!msja2NjZyNjY0tjb0tneyLi7vA== X-Abuse-Info: Please forward ALL headers when reporting abuse. X-Complaints-To: abuse@telocity.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 00:03:16 PST Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:57:16 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.dplanet.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!telocity-west!TELOCITY!newsrump.sjc.telocity.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:64610 "Janice" wrote in message news:3ab0504d.6113853@news.starlinx.com... > On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 00:02:11 -0500, "William Bliss" > wrote: > > >Here's an idea, sorry I can't confirm it from my own experiences. > >Projectors from the IIPC have come to the conclusion that inducing > >the VS is the only clear cut method for removing bioenergy parasites > >from our immediate surroundings. As one might imagine, these entities > >often don't like this and can attempt to prevent us from inducing or > >maintaining the VS. A "pop" to our astral-face sounds like something > >that one of these entities might do. > > What was your explanation again for why, from this perspective, I had > more encounters with "entities" back when I had stronger and more > frequent vibrational state experiences than I do now? I'll try. Let me review some stuff for any other readers. First, I don't think these ideas came from any ancient texts or cave drawings or any cool sources like that. :) Other than the group of very competent Brazilian Projectors who started the IIPC I don't know of any other sources to substantiate these ideas. The following is what these Projectors have seen while OBE and the assumptions derived from these observations. 1) The low level OB worlds, both near physical and low level astral, are populated by a rather large number of lesser evolved entities. 2) These entities display a very wide range of mental capabilities. Some are almost completely unconscious reacting out of some type of instinctive urges. Others are sort of conscious but with a very low level of Lucidity. There is a smaller but still appreciable number of slightly more lucid entities that can engage in communicative interactions but display various psychological impediments. The members of this last group are sometimes referred to as blind-guides. This is because they often have appropriate intentions, say to help their living relatives, but not enough maturity or overall understanding to really be helpful. Mediums and channelers tend to be in contact with blind-guides more often than not. 3) There are strong inexplicable attractions between entities that have the same characteristics. These characteristics can be subdivided into Thoughts, Sentiments (emotions) and Energies. The IIPC uses the synthetic word "Thosenes" to refer to the many combinational aspects of these characteristics. 4) Entities that can get away from the "physical plane" tend to be attracted to "extra-physical" communities comprised of entities who share similar Thosenes. Many such communities have been found and visited by numerous Projectors. Some of these communities are populated by entities sharing strict religious belief systems, including some whose inhabitants firmly believe they are not only in Heaven but are also there only because they believed in the correct religion. Supposedly this fact forms the basis for a number of ongoing extra-physical jokes. Other "communities" involve various sexual orientations and addictions. 5) Lucidity is strongly effected by an entity's energetic control, awareness and makeup. This is also true for Projectors. For example, Excessive energy in the astral body can lower a person's Lucidity. The trick is to learn how to transfer this excess back to one's physical body (without thinking about the body). Another example is the effect of this excessive energy on recently deceased entities who now don't have the physical body to dump energy to. The common result is a drastic but temporary drop in this entity's Lucidity until this energy can be discarded (second death) or the entity reincarnates. 6) People who harbor certain strong recurring Thosenes will build up a personal ambience that attracts entities having a proclivity for those same Thosenes. Complex synergistic relationships can develop where it is difficult to determine who was the cause for a particular thought or emotion. More often than we'd like to think we become the host for one or more parasitic entities that simply need certain types of feelings or energies that we are providing. These types of entities are called Intruders. Some times the same entities will stay with the same Human for very long times. This provides the entity with a certain familiarity with the host that enables it to subtly manipulate the host into engaging in the types of emotive or energetic activities (such as sexual) that this Intruder desires. The higher the cognitive skills of the Intruder the more subtle will be the Intruder's manipulations. Projectors can easily see these entities clinging to people as they go about their normal daily activities. 7) Projectors can watch what happens to these clingy entities when the host Human induces the VS. The net effect is that these entities are repelled during the VS but usually return soon afterwards unless they can be "convinced" to move on. The recommended process for deintrusion is a combination of five steps or techniques. First, commonly induce the VS, as many times throughout the day as possible. Second, attempt to communicate to the Intruders that you growing and changing and that you just aren't going to be as available to them or as tasty anymore, and that it might be a good idea for them to take the next opportunity to move on to better places. Third, Willingly donate energy to these Intruders as a form of going away gifts. Fourth, ask your Helpers to assist in applying your energetic gifts to helping your Intruders find better arrangements. Five, do indeed grow and change. Get rid of old habits and learn new ways to live and think. This last step can work all by itself as it changes you into a host of a different flavor. Ok, Janice. If I were forced to make a guess. I'd say that Intruders should be expected to do practically anything to prevent their host from regularly inducing or having strong VS states. Also they'd try to prevent any change in their host's awareness of them or awareness of their influences on the host. In other words they will work for the status quo. During the VS, or an OBE that includes a VS, I'd expect the Intruders to hang around close by and possibly try to convince or distract you into ending the VS. Also their change in relative position may mean a change in your ability to detect either them or other entities. In other words they are now energetically facing you rather than being with you. Someone, such as yourself, who has always had frequent OBEs may have attracted a type of Intruder who specializes in acquiring energy from you while you are projected. Especially if your typical actions or emotions while projected are to its liking. This type of Intruder may be working to prevent changes to your spectrum of OB experiences. Maybe masking contacts with Helpers or, dare I say it, preventing you from perceiving veridical information. :) Supposedly there are beneficial effects if you Project from a location referred to as an "extraphysical clinic". This is a place where Lucid Projectors have influenced the local energy makeup, via frequent donations, and Helpers frequently go to assist entities and help with deintrusion. Iguassu Falls, Brazil might make a worthwhile vacation for you. If you wanted to try something a little closer, I'd highly recommend you travel to Miami and sit through the IIPC's classes. You probably wouldn't have any difficulty Projecting during the practice sessions. You'll also meet some very nice people and maybe garner a new experience or two. Wm ###### From: not-me@not-here.net (Janice) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Wm's rendition of the IIPC's theory of Intrusion Message-ID: <3ab07d2f.17605443@news.starlinx.com> References: <3ab036f9$0$65271$38c90ffe@news1.twtelecom.net> <97Yr6.1899$25.1048811@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> <3ab0504d.6113853@news.starlinx.com> <8H_r6.2373$25.1152295@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 243 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 03:32:56 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-ThbX275LgSQ8T807C/pqp4SZZDOqASxqgaqCtTeJ4C2juEYXSa+P+3kbcTDJ+3OpeNMea186gfQE6V6!N7ohGFSg3KeTCxrZPnZyGPoxizPf X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 09:36:29 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.dplanet.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:64564 On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:57:16 -0500, "William Bliss" wrote: >"Janice" wrote in message >news:3ab0504d.6113853@news.starlinx.com... >> On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 00:02:11 -0500, "William Bliss" >> wrote: >> >> >Here's an idea, sorry I can't confirm it from my own experiences. >> >Projectors from the IIPC have come to the conclusion that inducing >> >the VS is the only clear cut method for removing bioenergy parasites >> >from our immediate surroundings. As one might imagine, these entities >> >often don't like this and can attempt to prevent us from inducing or >> >maintaining the VS. A "pop" to our astral-face sounds like something >> >that one of these entities might do. >> >> What was your explanation again for why, from this perspective, I had >> more encounters with "entities" back when I had stronger and more >> frequent vibrational state experiences than I do now? > >I'll try. Let me review some stuff for any other readers. > >First, I don't think these ideas came from any ancient texts or >cave drawings or any cool sources like that. :) Other than the >group of very competent Brazilian Projectors who started the IIPC >I don't know of any other sources to substantiate these ideas. >The following is what these Projectors have seen while OBE >and the assumptions derived from these observations. > >1) The low level OB worlds, both near physical and low level astral, >are populated by a rather large number of lesser evolved entities. What sort? Are these supposed to be the spirits of dead people, or some race(s) of spirit beings, or a mix? >2) These entities display a very wide range of mental capabilities. >Some are almost completely unconscious reacting out of some >type of instinctive urges. Others are sort of conscious but with >a very low level of Lucidity. There is a smaller but still appreciable >number of slightly more lucid entities that can engage in >communicative interactions but display various psychological >impediments. The members of this last group are sometimes >referred to as blind-guides. This is because they often have >appropriate intentions, say to help their living relatives, but not >enough maturity or overall understanding to really be helpful. >Mediums and channelers tend to be in contact with blind-guides >more often than not. > >3) There are strong inexplicable attractions between entities that >have the same characteristics. These characteristics can be >subdivided into Thoughts, Sentiments (emotions) and Energies. >The IIPC uses the synthetic word "Thosenes" to refer to the >many combinational aspects of these characteristics. > >4) Entities that can get away from the "physical plane" tend to >be attracted to "extra-physical" communities comprised of >entities who share similar Thosenes. Many such communities >have been found and visited by numerous Projectors. Some of >these communities are populated by entities sharing strict >religious belief systems, including some whose inhabitants >firmly believe they are not only in Heaven but are also there >only because they believed in the correct religion. LOL! Somehow I find that almost believeable. >Supposedly >this fact forms the basis for a number of ongoing extra-physical >jokes. Other "communities" involve various sexual orientations >and addictions. That part I don't get. How much are these nonphysical beings going to get out of sex if they don't have glands, hormones and all that good physical stuff? If all they really want is energy, why go through the motions of forming communities and having sex with each other to get it? >5) Lucidity is strongly effected by an entity's energetic control, >awareness and makeup. This is also true for Projectors. For >example, Excessive energy in the astral body can lower a >person's Lucidity. The trick is to learn how to transfer this excess >back to one's physical body (without thinking about the body). >Another example is the effect of this excessive energy on >recently deceased entities who now don't have the physical body >to dump energy to. The common result is a drastic but temporary >drop in this entity's Lucidity until this energy can be discarded >(second death) or the entity reincarnates. > >6) People who harbor certain strong recurring Thosenes will >build up a personal ambience that attracts entities having >a proclivity for those same Thosenes. Complex synergistic >relationships can develop where it is difficult to determine who >was the cause for a particular thought or emotion. More often >than we'd like to think we become the host for one or more >parasitic entities that simply need certain types of feelings or >energies that we are providing. These types of entities are >called Intruders. Some times the same entities will stay with the >same Human for very long times. This provides the entity with a >certain familiarity with the host that enables it to subtly manipulate >the host into engaging in the types of emotive or energetic >activities (such as sexual) that this Intruder desires. The higher >the cognitive skills of the Intruder the more subtle will be the >Intruder's manipulations. Well, I can certainly understand where that idea would come from, having had plenty of sexually oriented experiences in SP and LDs. But wouldn't sex with willing astral humans be more of an *exchange* of energy? What you're saying here has a hidden bias to it that reminds me of the sort of thing uptight moms say to their daughters, about how those naughty boys are just after one thing and will try anything to persuade you to give it to them. If she finds out you enjoy that thing too, well then you're just a slut! :D Perhaps, if there really are entities floating around out there, what you're talking about is a distorted Uptight Mom's blanket view of them, and while some may be sleazeballs others engage in what are genuine, mutually satisfactory relationships? (You can tell I'm getting tired.) >Projectors can easily see these entities clinging to people as >they go about their normal daily activities. It sounds like it's all part of the natural order of things, then. If so why be any more concerned about these parasitic entities than one is with, say, bacteria, most of which is parasitic but not too harmful, sometimes even helpful? And to extend the analogy, since it's actually a bad idea to overdo killing off bacteria with sterilization, antibiotics and so on, since this wipes out lesser strains that may be bugging you but clears the way for more resistant strains, wouldn't you risk shaking off the hordes of measly entities with the vibration technique and just making way for a Big Bad one? >7) Projectors can watch what happens to these clingy entities >when the host Human induces the VS. The net effect is that >these entities are repelled during the VS but usually return >soon afterwards unless they can be "convinced" to move on. >The recommended process for deintrusion is a combination of >five steps or techniques. First, commonly induce the VS, as many >times throughout the day as possible. Second, attempt to >communicate to the Intruders that you growing and changing >and that you just aren't going to be as available to them or as >tasty anymore, and that it might be a good idea for them to >take the next opportunity to move on to better places. Funny, I've had the exact opposite problem with my recurrent dream characters, who have tried to give *me* the brushoff. Perhaps I'm the one parasitizing them? ;-) >Third, >Willingly donate energy to these Intruders as a form of going >away gifts. Geeze, you'd have to be rather trusting to do that if you've started conceptualizing them as psychic vampires. >Fourth, ask your Helpers to assist in applying your >energetic gifts to helping your Intruders find better arrangements. >Five, do indeed grow and change. Get rid of old habits and >learn new ways to live and think. This last step can work all by >itself as it changes you into a host of a different flavor. What self-respecting entity enjoys the flavor of skepticism? I guess there are masochists everywhere .... >Ok, Janice. If I were forced to make a guess. I'd say that >Intruders should be expected to do practically anything to >prevent their host from regularly inducing or having strong >VS states. Also they'd try to prevent any change in their host's >awareness of them or awareness of their influences on the >host. In other words they will work for the status quo. That would rule out my recurrent dream characters, then. They always tried to change and leave; I kept tugging them back. As for the hypnagogic voices and SP "imps," if they represent entities they sure don't make any effort to be unobtrusive. Quite the contrary. >During the VS, or an OBE that includes a VS, I'd expect the >Intruders to hang around close by and possibly try to >convince or distract you into ending the VS. Funny, the last time I fancied, "Hey, what if that voice belongs to an entity?" I played around with the white light shield technique, which induced vibes instead of the intended effect. If I was being distracted, it backfired. :) If I end the VS it's just to get up and get on with the OBE. Would an astral me who's running around goofing off be more appealing than a me who's lying quietly in SP and probably not too averse to having a sexual fantasy? I would think that parasites would prefer the latter, and want me to stay in SP, unless perhaps they've caught on that I might seriously maim them if they misbehave, or that I might even brazenly mention the inorganic entities. >Also their >change in relative position may mean a change in your >ability to detect either them or other entities. In other words >they are now energetically facing you rather than being >with you. > >Someone, such as yourself, who has always had frequent >OBEs may have attracted a type of Intruder who specializes >in acquiring energy from you while you are projected. >Especially if your typical actions or emotions while projected are >to its liking. I hope they like horseback riding, then. >This type of Intruder may be working to prevent >changes to your spectrum of OB experiences. Maybe masking >contacts with Helpers or, dare I say it, preventing you from >perceiving veridical information. :) Bastards! All right, the next imp I catch is going to catch it. >Supposedly there are beneficial effects if you Project from >a location referred to as an "extraphysical clinic". This is a place >where Lucid Projectors have influenced the local energy >makeup, via frequent donations, and Helpers frequently go to >assist entities and help with deintrusion. Iguassu Falls, Brazil >might make a worthwhile vacation for you. If you wanted to >try something a little closer, I'd highly recommend you travel >to Miami and sit through the IIPC's classes. You probably >wouldn't have any difficulty Projecting during the practice >sessions. You'll also meet some very nice people and maybe >garner a new experience or two. Problem is I'm so suggestible that I could probably easily manufacture an experience to meet specs. Do these people acknowlege a difference between a genuine entity encounter and an encounter with one's own thought forms? ------- The secret to success is knowing who to blame for your failures. --Despair, Inc. ------- http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.htm ###### From: "William Bliss" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3ab036f9$0$65271$38c90ffe@news1.twtelecom.net> <97Yr6.1899$25.1048811@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> <3ab0504d.6113853@news.starlinx.com> <8H_r6.2373$25.1152295@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> <3ab07d2f.17605443@news.starlinx.com> Subject: Re: Lines: 430 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Trace: 3NvYyKaHqZ2cgL2bjZrIvK2kp6uhvLHFuq2prK26u8je3Mbb3Mba29DG2trdyMi8gJ3EyNndyKWJ!msja2NjZyNnb0tza0tjcyLi7vA== X-Abuse-Info: Please forward ALL headers when reporting abuse. X-Complaints-To: abuse@telocity.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:42:04 PST Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:36:04 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!telocity-west!TELOCITY!newsrump.sjc.telocity.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:64614 "Janice" wrote in message news:3ab07d2f.17605443@news.starlinx.com... > On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:57:16 -0500, "William Bliss" > wrote: > > >"Janice" wrote in message > >news:3ab0504d.6113853@news.starlinx.com... > >> On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 00:02:11 -0500, "William Bliss" > >> wrote: > >> > >> >Here's an idea, sorry I can't confirm it from my own experiences. > >> >Projectors from the IIPC have come to the conclusion that inducing > >> >the VS is the only clear cut method for removing bioenergy parasites > >> >from our immediate surroundings. As one might imagine, these entities > >> >often don't like this and can attempt to prevent us from inducing or > >> >maintaining the VS. A "pop" to our astral-face sounds like something > >> >that one of these entities might do. > >> > >> What was your explanation again for why, from this perspective, I had > >> more encounters with "entities" back when I had stronger and more > >> frequent vibrational state experiences than I do now? > > > >I'll try. Let me review some stuff for any other readers. > > > >First, I don't think these ideas came from any ancient texts or > >cave drawings or any cool sources like that. :) Other than the > >group of very competent Brazilian Projectors who started the IIPC > >I don't know of any other sources to substantiate these ideas. > >The following is what these Projectors have seen while OBE > >and the assumptions derived from these observations. > > > >1) The low level OB worlds, both near physical and low level astral, > >are populated by a rather large number of lesser evolved entities. > > What sort? Are these supposed to be the spirits of dead people, or > some race(s) of spirit beings, or a mix? Kind of a Chex Mix I guess. Some are called "psychotic post-mortems" by the IIPC. Current reincarnation theorists are suggesting that more interplanetary transfers actually happen than we previously realized, so yes, some are slimmy little aliens. :) BTW one reason these transfers are being done is to help individuals escape from "karmic" energy bonds between people and groups. So people like Elvis and Hitler, for differing reasons, are more likely to reincarnate on other planets. ("don't stand on my blue suede ectopods") > >2) These entities display a very wide range of mental capabilities. > >Some are almost completely unconscious reacting out of some > >type of instinctive urges. Others are sort of conscious but with > >a very low level of Lucidity. There is a smaller but still appreciable > >number of slightly more lucid entities that can engage in > >communicative interactions but display various psychological > >impediments. The members of this last group are sometimes > >referred to as blind-guides. This is because they often have > >appropriate intentions, say to help their living relatives, but not > >enough maturity or overall understanding to really be helpful. > >Mediums and channelers tend to be in contact with blind-guides > >more often than not. > > > >3) There are strong inexplicable attractions between entities that > >have the same characteristics. These characteristics can be > >subdivided into Thoughts, Sentiments (emotions) and Energies. > >The IIPC uses the synthetic word "Thosenes" to refer to the > >many combinational aspects of these characteristics. > > > >4) Entities that can get away from the "physical plane" tend to > >be attracted to "extra-physical" communities comprised of > >entities who share similar Thosenes. Many such communities > >have been found and visited by numerous Projectors. Some of > >these communities are populated by entities sharing strict > >religious belief systems, including some whose inhabitants > >firmly believe they are not only in Heaven but are also there > >only because they believed in the correct religion. > > LOL! Somehow I find that almost believeable. > > >Supposedly > >this fact forms the basis for a number of ongoing extra-physical > >jokes. Other "communities" involve various sexual orientations > >and addictions. > > That part I don't get. How much are these nonphysical beings going to > get out of sex if they don't have glands, hormones and all that good > physical stuff? If all they really want is energy, why go through > the motions of forming communities and having sex with each other to > get it? My feeling is that even though we may consider ourselves to be conscious entities the truth may be that a large portion of our consciousness is actually based on habits. We tend to repeat thoughts, and then repeated thoughts become habitual thoughts. Many Projectors have met now-dead entities that have expressed a conscious desire for particular earthly items (booz, cigarettes, etc) I like the theory that our astral-body tends to duplicate these habitual desires, emotions and addictions. Entities acting at a mostly subconscious level may be seeking out their favorite addictions, probably not even realizing they are now dead. Monroe was the first to discribe this I think. As for "forming communities" I probably should've mentioned that my definition for this was *very* broad. Monroe discribed a glob of intertwined wreathing bodies all attempting to achieve an impossible sexual release. I was including this as one of the types of communities that can be found. Monroe discovered, what others have confirmed, that the entities in these "cluster" communities aren't lucid. It's not a high level conscious decision to dive into and squirm around in these clusters. Not in the same sense as you or I might decide to go on a roller coaster ride and then go home. > >5) Lucidity is strongly effected by an entity's energetic control, > >awareness and makeup. This is also true for Projectors. For > >example, Excessive energy in the astral body can lower a > >person's Lucidity. The trick is to learn how to transfer this excess > >back to one's physical body (without thinking about the body). > >Another example is the effect of this excessive energy on > >recently deceased entities who now don't have the physical body > >to dump energy to. The common result is a drastic but temporary > >drop in this entity's Lucidity until this energy can be discarded > >(second death) or the entity reincarnates. > > > >6) People who harbor certain strong recurring Thosenes will > >build up a personal ambience that attracts entities having > >a proclivity for those same Thosenes. Complex synergistic > >relationships can develop where it is difficult to determine who > >was the cause for a particular thought or emotion. More often > >than we'd like to think we become the host for one or more > >parasitic entities that simply need certain types of feelings or > >energies that we are providing. These types of entities are > >called Intruders. Some times the same entities will stay with the > >same Human for very long times. This provides the entity with a > >certain familiarity with the host that enables it to subtly manipulate > >the host into engaging in the types of emotive or energetic > >activities (such as sexual) that this Intruder desires. The higher > >the cognitive skills of the Intruder the more subtle will be the > >Intruder's manipulations. > > Well, I can certainly understand where that idea would come from, > having had plenty of sexually oriented experiences in SP and LDs. But > wouldn't sex with willing astral humans be more of an *exchange* of > energy? Yes! I'd think so if that was what was actually happening. First of all the dominant energy flow is from the being in possesion of a physical body, that being you, to all the others. Second, how can we be sure that the decision to have a particular experience was really our own? I often wake up and realize that the sexual turn of events in my LD/OBE was not what I really wanted to do. It might be due a low lucidity level on my part or it might of been due to an Intruder. I don't know how to tell but I'm trying to be open to all interpretations. >What you're saying here has a hidden bias to it that reminds > me of the sort of thing uptight moms say to their daughters, about how > those naughty boys are just after one thing and will try anything to > persuade you to give it to them. If she finds out you enjoy that > thing too, well then you're just a slut! :D I probably still am one of those "naughty boys", and my fear that I may be harboring hidden biases is ever present. I think my only bias here is that IMO life is short and LDs/OBEs are too important to spend much time just having repetitive fun. I feel the same way about recreational drugs. IOW everyone should do it but then move on. > Perhaps, if there really are entities floating around out there, what > you're talking about is a distorted Uptight Mom's blanket view of > them, and while some may be sleazeballs others engage in what are > genuine, mutually satisfactory relationships? The IIPC does have a very strong bias towards the importance of personal evolotive growth. They present the cool optimistic idea that our evolution accelerates greatly when we start to take conscious control over it. Intruders, on the other hand, tend to hinder our awareness, self-control and personal growth. They may provide many beneficial influences but we never really know unless we can experience our own independant thinking for a while. When you are in VS you are *just* you. The trouble is, even for the dedicated practitioner, the VS only amounts to minutes per day. Not a lot of time to make a serious comparison. > (You can tell I'm getting tired.) > > >Projectors can easily see these entities clinging to people as > >they go about their normal daily activities. > > It sounds like it's all part of the natural order of things, then. If > so why be any more concerned about these parasitic entities than one > is with, say, bacteria, most of which is parasitic but not too > harmful, sometimes even helpful? And to extend the analogy, since > it's actually a bad idea to overdo killing off bacteria with > sterilization, antibiotics and so on, since this wipes out lesser > strains that may be bugging you but clears the way for more resistant > strains, wouldn't you risk shaking off the hordes of measly entities > with the vibration technique and just making way for a Big Bad one? I've wondered along those lines too. Maybe souls originate from the strong cohesiveness of very simple entities such as Thought Forms. More and more entites join the collective until a Borg-like collective consciousness is formed. I've often wondered why religions don't suggest the possibility of melding ourselves with our loved ones after death. One possible answer is that some types of souls may be created this way but a point is then reached where greater personal growth can develop if this growth is self directed rather than agglomerated. Sort of like the difference between a modern city designed from the get-go, versus historically driven city growth. The latter may have more old world charm but the sewers are leaking and there's not enought water and no mass transit or parks, yadda yadda. What if the emotion of depression is what a particular Intruder likes? Should you allow this Intruder to trigger this type of mood in you? And don't say that no Intruder would ever want such a thing. Remember we're talking about energies needed to sustain or activate consciousness. Also, depression to you may be felt like Lucid Euphoria to the Intruder. What about more violent tendencies? As for exchanging one Intruder for bigger badder ones, this is happening all the time with most people. The initial trick is to become the type of consciousness that is only attractive to, at most, the types of Intruders that you don't mind having. Such as Intruders who are also interested in personal growth and development. (your typical Mr Rogers Intruders :) ) To use your bacteria analogy (a good one) the VS is similar to taking a bath or sterilizing a wound. If you live in a filthy house then this will be a short lived remedy. But it none-the-less is the first and best step to getting oneself cleaned up. > >7) Projectors can watch what happens to these clingy entities > >when the host Human induces the VS. The net effect is that > >these entities are repelled during the VS but usually return > >soon afterwards unless they can be "convinced" to move on. > >The recommended process for deintrusion is a combination of > >five steps or techniques. First, commonly induce the VS, as many > >times throughout the day as possible. Second, attempt to > >communicate to the Intruders that you're growing and changing > >and that you just aren't going to be as available to them or as > >tasty anymore, and that it might be a good idea for them to > >take the next opportunity to move on to better places. > > Funny, I've had the exact opposite problem with my recurrent dream > characters, who have tried to give *me* the brushoff. Perhaps I'm the > one parasitizing them? ;-) > > >Third, > >Willingly donate energy to these Intruders as a form of going > >away gifts. > > Geeze, you'd have to be rather trusting to do that if you've started > conceptualizing them as psychic vampires. I think the idea is that as controllers of a physical body we have at our disposal a fairly large amount of bioenergy. The suggested goal is to become the conscious controller of how this energy is distributed and utilized. > > >Fourth, ask your Helpers to assist in applying your > >energetic gifts to helping your Intruders find better arrangements. > >Five, do indeed grow and change. Get rid of old habits and > >learn new ways to live and think. This last step can work all by > >itself as it changes you into a host of a different flavor. > > What self-respecting entity enjoys the flavor of skepticism? I guess > there are masochists everywhere .... LOL. This may be even more funny than you realize. Because blind-guides are often thinking in more of an automatic or habitual mode rather than Lucidly they have been known (I'm told) to do things such as try to steer people away from developing beliefs in the afterlife. Kinda weird for a ghost, hey? I know an OBE instructor/researcher who has an Intruder who is strongly anti-science even though this researcher is 100% dedicated to researching the OBE. You can push certain "buttons" and virtually see this Intruder jump into action and harrange other OBE researchers. Its not a proof, just a fun way of interpreting this person's behavioral extremes. The real clincher is that when this Intruder is active, the researcher is completely unwilling to induce the VS or even talk about it. That's a typical trademark. > > >Ok, Janice. If I were forced to make a guess. I'd say that > >Intruders should be expected to do practically anything to > >prevent their host from regularly inducing or having strong > >VS states. Also they'd try to prevent any change in their host's > >awareness of them or awareness of their influences on the > >host. In other words they will work for the status quo. > > That would rule out my recurrent dream characters, then. They always > tried to change and leave; I kept tugging them back. As for the > hypnagogic voices and SP "imps," if they represent entities they sure > don't make any effort to be unobtrusive. Quite the contrary. Again, I'm talking only about the possible action of semi-lucid entities. Predicting what "imps" might do is probably like guessing what your cat is thinking. > > >During the VS, or an OBE that includes a VS, I'd expect the > >Intruders to hang around close by and possibly try to > >convince or distract you into ending the VS. > > Funny, the last time I fancied, "Hey, what if that voice belongs to an > entity?" I played around with the white light shield technique, which > induced vibes instead of the intended effect. If I was being > distracted, it backfired. :) I've never heard of a Projector seeing a "white light shield" or any other physical barrier to entities. If such mental constructs work for some people then I'd guess that the "white light shield" is actually a metaphor for the VS, possibly being manipulated by one's Helpers. > > If I end the VS it's just to get up and get on with the OBE. Do you need to end the VS to Project? >Would an > astral me who's running around goofing off be more appealing than a me > who's lying quietly in SP and probably not too averse to having a > sexual fantasy? I would think that parasites would prefer the latter, > and want me to stay in SP, unless perhaps they've caught on that I > might seriously maim them if they misbehave, or that I might even > brazenly mention the inorganic entities. I liked your inorganic entities story, I'll have to remember to try that. As to whether you are more appealing to Intruders when running vs. lying completely paralyzed and ... and... vulnerable.... Well, I can only speak for myself (but I won't). My understanding is that strong emotions are their favorite. People with quick tempers or those who like loud or violent arguements may find themselves commonly Intruded upon. But this certainly isn't the only type of people who are most at risk. For example: I have a tendency to find almost everything in this world to be rather funny. I may, at times, even make a joke or two in less that optimal comedic situations. I was led to believe recently that this may be due to an Intrusion by a close relative who also had a similar type of humor. Obviously this is not a "let's go kill little girls" type of intrusion so I don't feel overly pressed to disengage it. In fact it might be better overall to work with this Intruder towards a mutual betterment. > >Also their > >change in relative position may mean a change in your > >ability to detect either them or other entities. In other words > >they are now energetically facing you rather than being > >with you. > > > >Someone, such as yourself, who has always had frequent > >OBEs may have attracted a type of Intruder who specializes > >in acquiring energy from you while you are projected. > >Especially if your typical actions or emotions while projected are > >to its liking. > > I hope they like horseback riding, then. > > >This type of Intruder may be working to prevent > >changes to your spectrum of OB experiences. Maybe masking > >contacts with Helpers or, dare I say it, preventing you from > >perceiving veridical information. :) > > Bastards! > > All right, the next imp I catch is going to catch it. > > >Supposedly there are beneficial effects if you Project from > >a location referred to as an "extraphysical clinic". This is a place > >where Lucid Projectors have influenced the local energy > >makeup, via frequent donations, and Helpers frequently go to > >assist entities and help with deintrusion. Iguassu Falls, Brazil > >might make a worthwhile vacation for you. If you wanted to > >try something a little closer, I'd highly recommend you travel > >to Miami and sit through the IIPC's classes. You probably > >wouldn't have any difficulty Projecting during the practice > >sessions. You'll also meet some very nice people and maybe > >garner a new experience or two. > > Problem is I'm so suggestible that I could probably easily manufacture > an experience to meet specs. Do these people acknowlege a difference > between a genuine entity encounter and an encounter with one's own > thought forms? Thought forms (thosenes), as I understand them are very low level forms, so low they are rather hard to individually detect. We do collect them and this collection does effect who you are in the near future. In other words, if you had a bad habit, trolling say, and you suddenly halted all your trolling activities, your energetic body would, for a short while, still be attractive to other trolls, and you'd still feel that evil urge. But soon, you would become less and less attractive to the trolling entities and they would all go to somewhere else. (a.a?) I presume you mean the differences between encounters with real external entities vs. dreamed entities. Yes! these people do feel that clear distinctions can be made. But I'm not sure how to effectively communicate them to you or whether they would be effective in your perspective. To be perfectly honest, my concern is that you may have inadvertently generated a sort of OBE rut. Possibly by simply having so many of them, you may have actually developed bad habits in your LD and OBE levels of consciousness. (Sorry if I sound like your Mom again!) IMHO the encounter you should consider striving for is one with a Helper. This is more problematic as true Helpers exist at such a high level they (generally) can't be seen by us even when we're OB. Helpers seem to need energy from willing Projectors in order to manifest themselves or influence situations at low astral levels. You might try willing yourself to Project to the highest plane you can reach and attempt such contact. It might be refreshing for you to experience an entity that has something interesting to say to you. ;) My understanding of the Helper's "rules of engagement" suggest that, although you probably won't get direct proof of the reality of the OBE state from an encounter with a Helper, you may very well come away with interesting new ideas on how to redirect your Projective efforts. And it will be this redirection that results in the type of proof you (and many others) seek. Wm ###### From: "William Bliss" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <4853-3AAE9103-218@storefull-108.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <3AAF89BA.AF32537F@home.com> <3AAFA1A9.733255CE@home.com> <3aafa466.11887745@news.starlinx.com> <3AAFA850.38FC3B00@home.com> <3aafabca.13779969@news.starlinx.com> Subject: Re: Lines: 53 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <0SOr6.1172$25.669271@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> X-Trace: 3dvIpoepnZyAvZuNmsi8raSnq6G8scW6ramsrbq7yN7cxtvcxtrb0Mba2t3IyL+NjMTI2dzIpYma!yNrY2NnI2djS293S3NjIuLu8 X-Abuse-Info: Please forward ALL headers when reporting abuse. X-Complaints-To: abuse@telocity.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 10:35:40 PST Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:29:29 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!telocity-west!TELOCITY!newsrump.sjc.telocity.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:64440 "Janice" wrote in message news:3aafabca.13779969@news.starlinx.com... [...] > No, seriously, I've had thousands of OBEs and lucid dreams over the > years, and used to be able to spend two or three hours straight going > in and out of them, the hypnagogic state, sleep paralysis, and so on, > so I think I can safely say that my awareness is intimately acquainted > with various states of consciousness. I simply don't see anything > about them that would indicate that anything other than ordinary > mental processes are involved -- I don't find myself spiriting around > the physical world, I can't do remote viewing (or if I can I haven't > been able to confirm it), I can't induce a shared dream, I can't "fly > to the Highest." And believe me, it's not for lack of trying. > > Of course there are very interesting things I *can* do. I have a > well-honed ability to control my dreams, and for many years I had a > whole soap opera going in the OBE/false awakening version of my > neighborhood, with recurrent characters, settings and a continuing > storyline. And yes, I am a very happy person, so if I've blindsided > myself to the full implications of my talents by choice it certainly > hasn't made me unhappy. On the other hand, you've also mentioned a very bad experience that you admitted was remarkably similar to an undercontrolled Kundalini event. Excuse this impropriety Janice, but I can't help but wonder how you might've been affected if that experience had been a positive one for you. [...] > I'm referring to one of my famous dream anecdotes, with blatant > Freudian implications. I had the bright idea in one lucid dream to > try to make a character into a teacher or guide. "When the student is > ready the teacher appears," I said glibly. "When the teacher--when > the *student* is ready the teacher appears," he said. "I like that. > Pat, isn't it?" He produced a small harmonica. "This doesn't have > any negative associations to your father, does it?" Still trying to > be trusting, I said no, quite forgetting that I did have a small > negative association between my father and a harmonica (he was > displeased one time when I wanted one). "Good, because I like the > sound it makes going down." Fortunately I was not trusting enough to > let anyone choke me with a harmonica, and beat the dickens out of his > image then dropped him off at the religious studies department of the > dream version of my university to be purified. Darn! I was hoping you'd tell me what it sounded like. :) I find the story interesting because, projectors don't need to breath, so as a general rule they don't. Wm ###### From: not-me@not-here.net (Janice) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Message-ID: <3aafc18c.19350781@news.starlinx.com> References: <4853-3AAE9103-218@storefull-108.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <3AAF89BA.AF32537F@home.com> <3AAFA1A9.733255CE@home.com> <3aafa466.11887745@news.starlinx.com> <3AAFA850.38FC3B00@home.com> <3aafabca.13779969@news.starlinx.com> <0SOr6.1172$25.669271@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 77 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:17:23 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-bUfLTDGQYyDmgYMFRP36rFYkJZdwUdzFnVhzLwrWuvSk8L3vhG8X9Br7TFgrmLkhv38GhZl/5+3CGtp!yGDSmoiMN1QrxkFw8w3zkfxgW7w= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 19:20:55 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc01.blue.aol.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:64432 On Wed, 14 Mar 2001 13:29:29 -0500, "William Bliss" wrote: >"Janice" wrote in message >news:3aafabca.13779969@news.starlinx.com... >[...] >> No, seriously, I've had thousands of OBEs and lucid dreams over the >> years, and used to be able to spend two or three hours straight going >> in and out of them, the hypnagogic state, sleep paralysis, and so on, >> so I think I can safely say that my awareness is intimately acquainted >> with various states of consciousness. I simply don't see anything >> about them that would indicate that anything other than ordinary >> mental processes are involved -- I don't find myself spiriting around >> the physical world, I can't do remote viewing (or if I can I haven't >> been able to confirm it), I can't induce a shared dream, I can't "fly >> to the Highest." And believe me, it's not for lack of trying. >> >> Of course there are very interesting things I *can* do. I have a >> well-honed ability to control my dreams, and for many years I had a >> whole soap opera going in the OBE/false awakening version of my >> neighborhood, with recurrent characters, settings and a continuing >> storyline. And yes, I am a very happy person, so if I've blindsided >> myself to the full implications of my talents by choice it certainly >> hasn't made me unhappy. > >On the other hand, you've also mentioned a very bad experience >that you admitted was remarkably similar to an undercontrolled >Kundalini event. Oh, yes. Whatever it was, the symptoms match so closely to what some people describe as happening in conjunction with "kundalini" that I have to suspect they are one and the same thing. Of course such people will suggest that I was in the grip of an arcane spiritual force and I will suggest that they were in the grip of a neuropsychological imbalance, but hey .... ;-) >Excuse this impropriety Janice, but I can't help but >wonder how you might've been affected if that experience had been >a positive one for you. How could it possibly have been positive? Are there people who *like* feeling flooded with explosive energy, unmitigated terror and mental anguish? >[...] >> I'm referring to one of my famous dream anecdotes, with blatant >> Freudian implications. I had the bright idea in one lucid dream to >> try to make a character into a teacher or guide. "When the student is >> ready the teacher appears," I said glibly. "When the teacher--when >> the *student* is ready the teacher appears," he said. "I like that. >> Pat, isn't it?" He produced a small harmonica. "This doesn't have >> any negative associations to your father, does it?" Still trying to >> be trusting, I said no, quite forgetting that I did have a small >> negative association between my father and a harmonica (he was >> displeased one time when I wanted one). "Good, because I like the >> sound it makes going down." Fortunately I was not trusting enough to >> let anyone choke me with a harmonica, and beat the dickens out of his >> image then dropped him off at the religious studies department of the >> dream version of my university to be purified. > >Darn! I was hoping you'd tell me what it sounded like. :) >I find the story interesting because, projectors don't need to breath, >so as a general rule they don't. I doubt that my dream body was breathing, but I still wasn't going to have that mouth organ shoved down my throat. even if it was only a little one (ha, Haunter loves that Freudian stuff). ------- The secret to success is knowing who to blame for your failures. --Despair, Inc. ------- http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.htm ###### From: "William Bliss" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <3ab036f9$0$65271$38c90ffe@news1.twtelecom.net> <97Yr6.1899$25.1048811@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> <3ab0504d.6113853@news.starlinx.com> <8H_r6.2373$25.1152295@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> <3ab07d2f.17605443@news.starlinx.com> Subject: Re: Lines: 430 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Trace: 3NvYyKaHqZ2cgL2bjZrIvK2kp6uhvLHFuq2prK26u8je3Mbb3Mba29DG2trdyMi8gJ3EyNndyKWJ!msja2NjZyNnb0tza0tjcyLi7vA== X-Abuse-Info: Please forward ALL headers when reporting abuse. X-Complaints-To: abuse@telocity.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:42:04 PST Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:36:04 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!telocity-west!TELOCITY!newsrump.sjc.telocity.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:64614 "Janice" wrote in message news:3ab07d2f.17605443@news.starlinx.com... > On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:57:16 -0500, "William Bliss" > wrote: > > >"Janice" wrote in message > >news:3ab0504d.6113853@news.starlinx.com... > >> On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 00:02:11 -0500, "William Bliss" > >> wrote: > >> > >> >Here's an idea, sorry I can't confirm it from my own experiences. > >> >Projectors from the IIPC have come to the conclusion that inducing > >> >the VS is the only clear cut method for removing bioenergy parasites > >> >from our immediate surroundings. As one might imagine, these entities > >> >often don't like this and can attempt to prevent us from inducing or > >> >maintaining the VS. A "pop" to our astral-face sounds like something > >> >that one of these entities might do. > >> > >> What was your explanation again for why, from this perspective, I had > >> more encounters with "entities" back when I had stronger and more > >> frequent vibrational state experiences than I do now? > > > >I'll try. Let me review some stuff for any other readers. > > > >First, I don't think these ideas came from any ancient texts or > >cave drawings or any cool sources like that. :) Other than the > >group of very competent Brazilian Projectors who started the IIPC > >I don't know of any other sources to substantiate these ideas. > >The following is what these Projectors have seen while OBE > >and the assumptions derived from these observations. > > > >1) The low level OB worlds, both near physical and low level astral, > >are populated by a rather large number of lesser evolved entities. > > What sort? Are these supposed to be the spirits of dead people, or > some race(s) of spirit beings, or a mix? Kind of a Chex Mix I guess. Some are called "psychotic post-mortems" by the IIPC. Current reincarnation theorists are suggesting that more interplanetary transfers actually happen than we previously realized, so yes, some are slimmy little aliens. :) BTW one reason these transfers are being done is to help individuals escape from "karmic" energy bonds between people and groups. So people like Elvis and Hitler, for differing reasons, are more likely to reincarnate on other planets. ("don't stand on my blue suede ectopods") > >2) These entities display a very wide range of mental capabilities. > >Some are almost completely unconscious reacting out of some > >type of instinctive urges. Others are sort of conscious but with > >a very low level of Lucidity. There is a smaller but still appreciable > >number of slightly more lucid entities that can engage in > >communicative interactions but display various psychological > >impediments. The members of this last group are sometimes > >referred to as blind-guides. This is because they often have > >appropriate intentions, say to help their living relatives, but not > >enough maturity or overall understanding to really be helpful. > >Mediums and channelers tend to be in contact with blind-guides > >more often than not. > > > >3) There are strong inexplicable attractions between entities that > >have the same characteristics. These characteristics can be > >subdivided into Thoughts, Sentiments (emotions) and Energies. > >The IIPC uses the synthetic word "Thosenes" to refer to the > >many combinational aspects of these characteristics. > > > >4) Entities that can get away from the "physical plane" tend to > >be attracted to "extra-physical" communities comprised of > >entities who share similar Thosenes. Many such communities > >have been found and visited by numerous Projectors. Some of > >these communities are populated by entities sharing strict > >religious belief systems, including some whose inhabitants > >firmly believe they are not only in Heaven but are also there > >only because they believed in the correct religion. > > LOL! Somehow I find that almost believeable. > > >Supposedly > >this fact forms the basis for a number of ongoing extra-physical > >jokes. Other "communities" involve various sexual orientations > >and addictions. > > That part I don't get. How much are these nonphysical beings going to > get out of sex if they don't have glands, hormones and all that good > physical stuff? If all they really want is energy, why go through > the motions of forming communities and having sex with each other to > get it? My feeling is that even though we may consider ourselves to be conscious entities the truth may be that a large portion of our consciousness is actually based on habits. We tend to repeat thoughts, and then repeated thoughts become habitual thoughts. Many Projectors have met now-dead entities that have expressed a conscious desire for particular earthly items (booz, cigarettes, etc) I like the theory that our astral-body tends to duplicate these habitual desires, emotions and addictions. Entities acting at a mostly subconscious level may be seeking out their favorite addictions, probably not even realizing they are now dead. Monroe was the first to discribe this I think. As for "forming communities" I probably should've mentioned that my definition for this was *very* broad. Monroe discribed a glob of intertwined wreathing bodies all attempting to achieve an impossible sexual release. I was including this as one of the types of communities that can be found. Monroe discovered, what others have confirmed, that the entities in these "cluster" communities aren't lucid. It's not a high level conscious decision to dive into and squirm around in these clusters. Not in the same sense as you or I might decide to go on a roller coaster ride and then go home. > >5) Lucidity is strongly effected by an entity's energetic control, > >awareness and makeup. This is also true for Projectors. For > >example, Excessive energy in the astral body can lower a > >person's Lucidity. The trick is to learn how to transfer this excess > >back to one's physical body (without thinking about the body). > >Another example is the effect of this excessive energy on > >recently deceased entities who now don't have the physical body > >to dump energy to. The common result is a drastic but temporary > >drop in this entity's Lucidity until this energy can be discarded > >(second death) or the entity reincarnates. > > > >6) People who harbor certain strong recurring Thosenes will > >build up a personal ambience that attracts entities having > >a proclivity for those same Thosenes. Complex synergistic > >relationships can develop where it is difficult to determine who > >was the cause for a particular thought or emotion. More often > >than we'd like to think we become the host for one or more > >parasitic entities that simply need certain types of feelings or > >energies that we are providing. These types of entities are > >called Intruders. Some times the same entities will stay with the > >same Human for very long times. This provides the entity with a > >certain familiarity with the host that enables it to subtly manipulate > >the host into engaging in the types of emotive or energetic > >activities (such as sexual) that this Intruder desires. The higher > >the cognitive skills of the Intruder the more subtle will be the > >Intruder's manipulations. > > Well, I can certainly understand where that idea would come from, > having had plenty of sexually oriented experiences in SP and LDs. But > wouldn't sex with willing astral humans be more of an *exchange* of > energy? Yes! I'd think so if that was what was actually happening. First of all the dominant energy flow is from the being in possesion of a physical body, that being you, to all the others. Second, how can we be sure that the decision to have a particular experience was really our own? I often wake up and realize that the sexual turn of events in my LD/OBE was not what I really wanted to do. It might be due a low lucidity level on my part or it might of been due to an Intruder. I don't know how to tell but I'm trying to be open to all interpretations. >What you're saying here has a hidden bias to it that reminds > me of the sort of thing uptight moms say to their daughters, about how > those naughty boys are just after one thing and will try anything to > persuade you to give it to them. If she finds out you enjoy that > thing too, well then you're just a slut! :D I probably still am one of those "naughty boys", and my fear that I may be harboring hidden biases is ever present. I think my only bias here is that IMO life is short and LDs/OBEs are too important to spend much time just having repetitive fun. I feel the same way about recreational drugs. IOW everyone should do it but then move on. > Perhaps, if there really are entities floating around out there, what > you're talking about is a distorted Uptight Mom's blanket view of > them, and while some may be sleazeballs others engage in what are > genuine, mutually satisfactory relationships? The IIPC does have a very strong bias towards the importance of personal evolotive growth. They present the cool optimistic idea that our evolution accelerates greatly when we start to take conscious control over it. Intruders, on the other hand, tend to hinder our awareness, self-control and personal growth. They may provide many beneficial influences but we never really know unless we can experience our own independant thinking for a while. When you are in VS you are *just* you. The trouble is, even for the dedicated practitioner, the VS only amounts to minutes per day. Not a lot of time to make a serious comparison. > (You can tell I'm getting tired.) > > >Projectors can easily see these entities clinging to people as > >they go about their normal daily activities. > > It sounds like it's all part of the natural order of things, then. If > so why be any more concerned about these parasitic entities than one > is with, say, bacteria, most of which is parasitic but not too > harmful, sometimes even helpful? And to extend the analogy, since > it's actually a bad idea to overdo killing off bacteria with > sterilization, antibiotics and so on, since this wipes out lesser > strains that may be bugging you but clears the way for more resistant > strains, wouldn't you risk shaking off the hordes of measly entities > with the vibration technique and just making way for a Big Bad one? I've wondered along those lines too. Maybe souls originate from the strong cohesiveness of very simple entities such as Thought Forms. More and more entites join the collective until a Borg-like collective consciousness is formed. I've often wondered why religions don't suggest the possibility of melding ourselves with our loved ones after death. One possible answer is that some types of souls may be created this way but a point is then reached where greater personal growth can develop if this growth is self directed rather than agglomerated. Sort of like the difference between a modern city designed from the get-go, versus historically driven city growth. The latter may have more old world charm but the sewers are leaking and there's not enought water and no mass transit or parks, yadda yadda. What if the emotion of depression is what a particular Intruder likes? Should you allow this Intruder to trigger this type of mood in you? And don't say that no Intruder would ever want such a thing. Remember we're talking about energies needed to sustain or activate consciousness. Also, depression to you may be felt like Lucid Euphoria to the Intruder. What about more violent tendencies? As for exchanging one Intruder for bigger badder ones, this is happening all the time with most people. The initial trick is to become the type of consciousness that is only attractive to, at most, the types of Intruders that you don't mind having. Such as Intruders who are also interested in personal growth and development. (your typical Mr Rogers Intruders :) ) To use your bacteria analogy (a good one) the VS is similar to taking a bath or sterilizing a wound. If you live in a filthy house then this will be a short lived remedy. But it none-the-less is the first and best step to getting oneself cleaned up. > >7) Projectors can watch what happens to these clingy entities > >when the host Human induces the VS. The net effect is that > >these entities are repelled during the VS but usually return > >soon afterwards unless they can be "convinced" to move on. > >The recommended process for deintrusion is a combination of > >five steps or techniques. First, commonly induce the VS, as many > >times throughout the day as possible. Second, attempt to > >communicate to the Intruders that you're growing and changing > >and that you just aren't going to be as available to them or as > >tasty anymore, and that it might be a good idea for them to > >take the next opportunity to move on to better places. > > Funny, I've had the exact opposite problem with my recurrent dream > characters, who have tried to give *me* the brushoff. Perhaps I'm the > one parasitizing them? ;-) > > >Third, > >Willingly donate energy to these Intruders as a form of going > >away gifts. > > Geeze, you'd have to be rather trusting to do that if you've started > conceptualizing them as psychic vampires. I think the idea is that as controllers of a physical body we have at our disposal a fairly large amount of bioenergy. The suggested goal is to become the conscious controller of how this energy is distributed and utilized. > > >Fourth, ask your Helpers to assist in applying your > >energetic gifts to helping your Intruders find better arrangements. > >Five, do indeed grow and change. Get rid of old habits and > >learn new ways to live and think. This last step can work all by > >itself as it changes you into a host of a different flavor. > > What self-respecting entity enjoys the flavor of skepticism? I guess > there are masochists everywhere .... LOL. This may be even more funny than you realize. Because blind-guides are often thinking in more of an automatic or habitual mode rather than Lucidly they have been known (I'm told) to do things such as try to steer people away from developing beliefs in the afterlife. Kinda weird for a ghost, hey? I know an OBE instructor/researcher who has an Intruder who is strongly anti-science even though this researcher is 100% dedicated to researching the OBE. You can push certain "buttons" and virtually see this Intruder jump into action and harrange other OBE researchers. Its not a proof, just a fun way of interpreting this person's behavioral extremes. The real clincher is that when this Intruder is active, the researcher is completely unwilling to induce the VS or even talk about it. That's a typical trademark. > > >Ok, Janice. If I were forced to make a guess. I'd say that > >Intruders should be expected to do practically anything to > >prevent their host from regularly inducing or having strong > >VS states. Also they'd try to prevent any change in their host's > >awareness of them or awareness of their influences on the > >host. In other words they will work for the status quo. > > That would rule out my recurrent dream characters, then. They always > tried to change and leave; I kept tugging them back. As for the > hypnagogic voices and SP "imps," if they represent entities they sure > don't make any effort to be unobtrusive. Quite the contrary. Again, I'm talking only about the possible action of semi-lucid entities. Predicting what "imps" might do is probably like guessing what your cat is thinking. > > >During the VS, or an OBE that includes a VS, I'd expect the > >Intruders to hang around close by and possibly try to > >convince or distract you into ending the VS. > > Funny, the last time I fancied, "Hey, what if that voice belongs to an > entity?" I played around with the white light shield technique, which > induced vibes instead of the intended effect. If I was being > distracted, it backfired. :) I've never heard of a Projector seeing a "white light shield" or any other physical barrier to entities. If such mental constructs work for some people then I'd guess that the "white light shield" is actually a metaphor for the VS, possibly being manipulated by one's Helpers. > > If I end the VS it's just to get up and get on with the OBE. Do you need to end the VS to Project? >Would an > astral me who's running around goofing off be more appealing than a me > who's lying quietly in SP and probably not too averse to having a > sexual fantasy? I would think that parasites would prefer the latter, > and want me to stay in SP, unless perhaps they've caught on that I > might seriously maim them if they misbehave, or that I might even > brazenly mention the inorganic entities. I liked your inorganic entities story, I'll have to remember to try that. As to whether you are more appealing to Intruders when running vs. lying completely paralyzed and ... and... vulnerable.... Well, I can only speak for myself (but I won't). My understanding is that strong emotions are their favorite. People with quick tempers or those who like loud or violent arguements may find themselves commonly Intruded upon. But this certainly isn't the only type of people who are most at risk. For example: I have a tendency to find almost everything in this world to be rather funny. I may, at times, even make a joke or two in less that optimal comedic situations. I was led to believe recently that this may be due to an Intrusion by a close relative who also had a similar type of humor. Obviously this is not a "let's go kill little girls" type of intrusion so I don't feel overly pressed to disengage it. In fact it might be better overall to work with this Intruder towards a mutual betterment. > >Also their > >change in relative position may mean a change in your > >ability to detect either them or other entities. In other words > >they are now energetically facing you rather than being > >with you. > > > >Someone, such as yourself, who has always had frequent > >OBEs may have attracted a type of Intruder who specializes > >in acquiring energy from you while you are projected. > >Especially if your typical actions or emotions while projected are > >to its liking. > > I hope they like horseback riding, then. > > >This type of Intruder may be working to prevent > >changes to your spectrum of OB experiences. Maybe masking > >contacts with Helpers or, dare I say it, preventing you from > >perceiving veridical information. :) > > Bastards! > > All right, the next imp I catch is going to catch it. > > >Supposedly there are beneficial effects if you Project from > >a location referred to as an "extraphysical clinic". This is a place > >where Lucid Projectors have influenced the local energy > >makeup, via frequent donations, and Helpers frequently go to > >assist entities and help with deintrusion. Iguassu Falls, Brazil > >might make a worthwhile vacation for you. If you wanted to > >try something a little closer, I'd highly recommend you travel > >to Miami and sit through the IIPC's classes. You probably > >wouldn't have any difficulty Projecting during the practice > >sessions. You'll also meet some very nice people and maybe > >garner a new experience or two. > > Problem is I'm so suggestible that I could probably easily manufacture > an experience to meet specs. Do these people acknowlege a difference > between a genuine entity encounter and an encounter with one's own > thought forms? Thought forms (thosenes), as I understand them are very low level forms, so low they are rather hard to individually detect. We do collect them and this collection does effect who you are in the near future. In other words, if you had a bad habit, trolling say, and you suddenly halted all your trolling activities, your energetic body would, for a short while, still be attractive to other trolls, and you'd still feel that evil urge. But soon, you would become less and less attractive to the trolling entities and they would all go to somewhere else. (a.a?) I presume you mean the differences between encounters with real external entities vs. dreamed entities. Yes! these people do feel that clear distinctions can be made. But I'm not sure how to effectively communicate them to you or whether they would be effective in your perspective. To be perfectly honest, my concern is that you may have inadvertently generated a sort of OBE rut. Possibly by simply having so many of them, you may have actually developed bad habits in your LD and OBE levels of consciousness. (Sorry if I sound like your Mom again!) IMHO the encounter you should consider striving for is one with a Helper. This is more problematic as true Helpers exist at such a high level they (generally) can't be seen by us even when we're OB. Helpers seem to need energy from willing Projectors in order to manifest themselves or influence situations at low astral levels. You might try willing yourself to Project to the highest plane you can reach and attempt such contact. It might be refreshing for you to experience an entity that has something interesting to say to you. ;) My understanding of the Helper's "rules of engagement" suggest that, although you probably won't get direct proof of the reality of the OBE state from an encounter with a Helper, you may very well come away with interesting new ideas on how to redirect your Projective efforts. And it will be this redirection that results in the type of proof you (and many others) seek. Wm ###### From: not-me@not-here.net (Janice) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Message-ID: <3ab169c3.1558350@news.starlinx.com> References: <3ab036f9$0$65271$38c90ffe@news1.twtelecom.net> <97Yr6.1899$25.1048811@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> <3ab0504d.6113853@news.starlinx.com> <8H_r6.2373$25.1152295@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> <3ab07d2f.17605443@news.starlinx.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 534 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 20:12:41 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-FI73THVCRuyVUOnm+VIiNBa3qoRzjvCv0HcZ760gITL3S4SrciIenDBoSLTkWWh6B9S3mg/rUMUszkQ!I2ZP0N7G54xy1kIpsFSwUA+CregA X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 02:16:11 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:64541 On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:36:04 -0500, "William Bliss" wrote: >"Janice" wrote in message >news:3ab07d2f.17605443@news.starlinx.com... >> On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:57:16 -0500, "William Bliss" >> wrote: >> >> >"Janice" wrote in message >> >news:3ab0504d.6113853@news.starlinx.com... >> >> On Thu, 15 Mar 2001 00:02:11 -0500, "William Bliss" >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >Here's an idea, sorry I can't confirm it from my own experiences. >> >> >Projectors from the IIPC have come to the conclusion that inducing >> >> >the VS is the only clear cut method for removing bioenergy parasites >> >> >from our immediate surroundings. As one might imagine, these entities >> >> >often don't like this and can attempt to prevent us from inducing or >> >> >maintaining the VS. A "pop" to our astral-face sounds like something >> >> >that one of these entities might do. >> >> >> >> What was your explanation again for why, from this perspective, I had >> >> more encounters with "entities" back when I had stronger and more >> >> frequent vibrational state experiences than I do now? >> > >> >I'll try. Let me review some stuff for any other readers. >> > >> >First, I don't think these ideas came from any ancient texts or >> >cave drawings or any cool sources like that. :) Other than the >> >group of very competent Brazilian Projectors who started the IIPC >> >I don't know of any other sources to substantiate these ideas. >> >The following is what these Projectors have seen while OBE >> >and the assumptions derived from these observations. >> > >> >1) The low level OB worlds, both near physical and low level astral, >> >are populated by a rather large number of lesser evolved entities. >> >> What sort? Are these supposed to be the spirits of dead people, or >> some race(s) of spirit beings, or a mix? > >Kind of a Chex Mix I guess. >Some are called "psychotic post-mortems" by the IIPC. >Current reincarnation theorists are suggesting that more interplanetary >transfers actually happen than we previously realized, so yes, some >are slimmy little aliens. :) Ooo, neat. In my very favorite false awakening I felt like I was a weird little alien (mentally, not my dream body shape) so I sat up, popped the top off my skull, and removed my brain. I found that I could produce musical notes by pressing on the various folds, and ended up playing "Dixie." >BTW one reason these transfers are being >done is to help individuals escape from "karmic" energy bonds >between people and groups. So people like Elvis and Hitler, for >differing reasons, are more likely to reincarnate on other planets. >("don't stand on my blue suede ectopods") Whew. Close one. >> >2) These entities display a very wide range of mental capabilities. >> >Some are almost completely unconscious reacting out of some >> >type of instinctive urges. Others are sort of conscious but with >> >a very low level of Lucidity. There is a smaller but still appreciable >> >number of slightly more lucid entities that can engage in >> >communicative interactions but display various psychological >> >impediments. The members of this last group are sometimes >> >referred to as blind-guides. This is because they often have >> >appropriate intentions, say to help their living relatives, but not >> >enough maturity or overall understanding to really be helpful. >> >Mediums and channelers tend to be in contact with blind-guides >> >more often than not. >> > >> >3) There are strong inexplicable attractions between entities that >> >have the same characteristics. These characteristics can be >> >subdivided into Thoughts, Sentiments (emotions) and Energies. >> >The IIPC uses the synthetic word "Thosenes" to refer to the >> >many combinational aspects of these characteristics. >> > >> >4) Entities that can get away from the "physical plane" tend to >> >be attracted to "extra-physical" communities comprised of >> >entities who share similar Thosenes. Many such communities >> >have been found and visited by numerous Projectors. Some of >> >these communities are populated by entities sharing strict >> >religious belief systems, including some whose inhabitants >> >firmly believe they are not only in Heaven but are also there >> >only because they believed in the correct religion. >> >> LOL! Somehow I find that almost believeable. >> >> >Supposedly >> >this fact forms the basis for a number of ongoing extra-physical >> >jokes. Other "communities" involve various sexual orientations >> >and addictions. >> >> That part I don't get. How much are these nonphysical beings going to >> get out of sex if they don't have glands, hormones and all that good >> physical stuff? If all they really want is energy, why go through >> the motions of forming communities and having sex with each other to >> get it? > >My feeling is that even though we may consider ourselves to be >conscious entities the truth may be that a large portion of our >consciousness is actually based on habits. We tend to repeat >thoughts, and then repeated thoughts become habitual thoughts. >Many Projectors have met now-dead entities that have expressed >a conscious desire for particular earthly items (booz, cigarettes, etc) I had a "bedroom visitant" one time who tried to order me to I bring him a bunch of stuff, including a bathrobe. Of course I didn't. >I like the theory that our astral-body tends to duplicate these >habitual desires, emotions and addictions. >Entities acting at a mostly subconscious level may be seeking out >their favorite addictions, probably not even realizing they are now >dead. Monroe was the first to discribe this I think. >As for "forming communities" I probably should've mentioned that >my definition for this was *very* broad. Monroe discribed a glob >of intertwined wreathing bodies all attempting to achieve an >impossible sexual release. Cool image. I've never seen anything like that. But what are these "bodies" supposed to be made of? >I was including this as one of the types >of communities that can be found. Monroe discovered, what others >have confirmed, that the entities in these "cluster" communities >aren't lucid. It's not a high level conscious decision to dive into >and squirm around in these clusters. Not in the same sense as >you or I might decide to go on a roller coaster ride and then go >home. > >> >5) Lucidity is strongly effected by an entity's energetic control, >> >awareness and makeup. This is also true for Projectors. For >> >example, Excessive energy in the astral body can lower a >> >person's Lucidity. The trick is to learn how to transfer this excess >> >back to one's physical body (without thinking about the body). >> >Another example is the effect of this excessive energy on >> >recently deceased entities who now don't have the physical body >> >to dump energy to. The common result is a drastic but temporary >> >drop in this entity's Lucidity until this energy can be discarded >> >(second death) or the entity reincarnates. >> > >> >6) People who harbor certain strong recurring Thosenes will >> >build up a personal ambience that attracts entities having >> >a proclivity for those same Thosenes. Complex synergistic >> >relationships can develop where it is difficult to determine who >> >was the cause for a particular thought or emotion. More often >> >than we'd like to think we become the host for one or more >> >parasitic entities that simply need certain types of feelings or >> >energies that we are providing. These types of entities are >> >called Intruders. Some times the same entities will stay with the >> >same Human for very long times. This provides the entity with a >> >certain familiarity with the host that enables it to subtly manipulate >> >the host into engaging in the types of emotive or energetic >> >activities (such as sexual) that this Intruder desires. The higher >> >the cognitive skills of the Intruder the more subtle will be the >> >Intruder's manipulations. >> >> Well, I can certainly understand where that idea would come from, >> having had plenty of sexually oriented experiences in SP and LDs. But >> wouldn't sex with willing astral humans be more of an *exchange* of >> energy? > >Yes! I'd think so if that was what was actually happening. >First of all the dominant energy flow is from the being in possesion >of a physical body, that being you, to all the others. Why so? If I wake up from a dream of so much as hugging and kissing a really attractive guy, I feel energized, not drained. >Second, >how can we be sure that the decision to have a particular experience >was really our own? I often wake up and realize that the sexual >turn of events in my LD/OBE was not what I really wanted to do. >It might be due a low lucidity level on my part or it might of been >due to an Intruder. I don't know how to tell but I'm trying to be >open to all interpretations. Well, I'd imagine that you can be conflicted about it ; part of you may have had other plans, but the sexual part won. It can do that when you're awake, too, you know. ;-) One thing to keep in mind is that all of us, even cats and rats and such, experience sexual arousal during REM sleep. So either every mammal on the planet is beset by sex-starved entities several times a night, or it's a natural function of sleep that could easily inspire dreams of a sexual nature. Take your pick. >>What you're saying here has a hidden bias to it that reminds >> me of the sort of thing uptight moms say to their daughters, about how >> those naughty boys are just after one thing and will try anything to >> persuade you to give it to them. If she finds out you enjoy that >> thing too, well then you're just a slut! :D > >I probably still am one of those "naughty boys", and my fear that I >may be harboring hidden biases is ever present. I think my only >bias here is that IMO life is short and LDs/OBEs are too important >to spend much time just having repetitive fun. I feel the same way >about recreational drugs. IOW everyone should do it but then move on. Sure. But different people "move on" to different things. Some people think it's wonderful to "move on" to exploring dream symbols and archetypes, for instance. I thought it was worthwhile at a point to move on to a more scientific, experimental approach (I've worn many hats; saying I went from fearful to skeptical is just the Reader's Digest condensed version). >> Perhaps, if there really are entities floating around out there, what >> you're talking about is a distorted Uptight Mom's blanket view of >> them, and while some may be sleazeballs others engage in what are >> genuine, mutually satisfactory relationships? > >The IIPC does have a very strong bias towards the importance >of personal evolotive growth. They present the cool optimistic idea >that our evolution accelerates greatly when we start to take conscious >control over it. Intruders, on the other hand, tend to hinder our >awareness, self-control and personal growth. They may provide >many beneficial influences but we never really know unless we can >experience our own independant thinking for a while. > >When you are in VS you are *just* you. The trouble is, even for the >dedicated practitioner, the VS only amounts to minutes per day. >Not a lot of time to make a serious comparison. How is this not a situation-specific "you," like all other "you's"? >> (You can tell I'm getting tired.) >> >> >Projectors can easily see these entities clinging to people as >> >they go about their normal daily activities. >> >> It sounds like it's all part of the natural order of things, then. If >> so why be any more concerned about these parasitic entities than one >> is with, say, bacteria, most of which is parasitic but not too >> harmful, sometimes even helpful? And to extend the analogy, since >> it's actually a bad idea to overdo killing off bacteria with >> sterilization, antibiotics and so on, since this wipes out lesser >> strains that may be bugging you but clears the way for more resistant >> strains, wouldn't you risk shaking off the hordes of measly entities >> with the vibration technique and just making way for a Big Bad one? > >I've wondered along those lines too. Maybe souls originate from >the strong cohesiveness of very simple entities such as Thought >Forms. More and more entites join the collective until a Borg-like >collective consciousness is formed. I've often wondered why >religions don't suggest the possibility of melding ourselves with >our loved ones after death. One possible answer is that some types >of souls may be created this way but a point is then reached where >greater personal growth can develop if this growth is self directed >rather than agglomerated. Sort of like the difference between a >modern city designed from the get-go, versus historically driven >city growth. The latter may have more old world charm but the >sewers are leaking and there's not enought water and no mass >transit or parks, yadda yadda. > >What if the emotion of depression is what a particular Intruder likes? >Should you allow this Intruder to trigger this type of mood in you? >And don't say that no Intruder would ever want such a thing. >Remember we're talking about energies needed to sustain or >activate consciousness. Also, depression to you may be felt like >Lucid Euphoria to the Intruder. >What about more violent tendencies? This is starting to sound like a belief system for people who don't like taking responsibility for their own emotions and impulses and would rather pass the buck. Even if there are any disembodied entities influencing us in this way, how is it any worse than what ordinary living people do to us daily? Our emotions are manipulated all the time by the people around us, the movies we see, advertising, and so on. You can't hide from it, though you can learn to watch for and to some extent counteract it. >As for exchanging one Intruder for bigger badder ones, this is >happening all the time with most people. The initial trick is to >become the type of consciousness that is only attractive to, at most, >the types of Intruders that you don't mind having. Such as Intruders >who are also interested in personal growth and development. >(your typical Mr Rogers Intruders :) ) I seem to be a magnet for astral horses. >To use your bacteria analogy (a good one) the VS is similar to >taking a bath or sterilizing a wound. If you live in a filthy house >then this will be a short lived remedy. But it none-the-less is the >first and best step to getting oneself cleaned up. > >> >7) Projectors can watch what happens to these clingy entities >> >when the host Human induces the VS. The net effect is that >> >these entities are repelled during the VS but usually return >> >soon afterwards unless they can be "convinced" to move on. >> >The recommended process for deintrusion is a combination of >> >five steps or techniques. First, commonly induce the VS, as many >> >times throughout the day as possible. Second, attempt to >> >communicate to the Intruders that you're growing and changing >> >and that you just aren't going to be as available to them or as >> >tasty anymore, and that it might be a good idea for them to >> >take the next opportunity to move on to better places. >> >> Funny, I've had the exact opposite problem with my recurrent dream >> characters, who have tried to give *me* the brushoff. Perhaps I'm the >> one parasitizing them? ;-) >> >> >Third, >> >Willingly donate energy to these Intruders as a form of going >> >away gifts. >> >> Geeze, you'd have to be rather trusting to do that if you've started >> conceptualizing them as psychic vampires. > >I think the idea is that as controllers of a physical body we have >at our disposal a fairly large amount of bioenergy. The suggested >goal is to become the conscious controller of how this energy is >distributed and utilized. Yeah, but if your intruder is stronger and cleverer than you, isn't it likely to, say, act all contrite, say it'll leave if you want, humbly accept your gift, then just take advantage of the opening and get vicious? >> >Fourth, ask your Helpers to assist in applying your >> >energetic gifts to helping your Intruders find better arrangements. >> >Five, do indeed grow and change. Get rid of old habits and >> >learn new ways to live and think. This last step can work all by >> >itself as it changes you into a host of a different flavor. >> >> What self-respecting entity enjoys the flavor of skepticism? I guess >> there are masochists everywhere .... > >LOL. This may be even more funny than you realize. Because >blind-guides are often thinking in more of an automatic or habitual >mode rather than Lucidly they have been known (I'm told) to do >things such as try to steer people away from developing beliefs in >the afterlife. Kinda weird for a ghost, hey? > >I know an OBE instructor/researcher who has an Intruder who is >strongly anti-science even though this researcher is 100% >dedicated to researching the OBE. You can push certain "buttons" >and virtually see this Intruder jump into action and harrange other >OBE researchers. Its not a proof, just a fun way of interpreting >this person's behavioral extremes. The real clincher is that when >this Intruder is active, the researcher is completely unwilling to >induce the VS or even talk about it. That's a typical trademark. If this guy has teacher status why isn't able to shake such a pest? >> >Ok, Janice. If I were forced to make a guess. I'd say that >> >Intruders should be expected to do practically anything to >> >prevent their host from regularly inducing or having strong >> >VS states. Also they'd try to prevent any change in their host's >> >awareness of them or awareness of their influences on the >> >host. In other words they will work for the status quo. >> >> That would rule out my recurrent dream characters, then. They always >> tried to change and leave; I kept tugging them back. As for the >> hypnagogic voices and SP "imps," if they represent entities they sure >> don't make any effort to be unobtrusive. Quite the contrary. > >Again, I'm talking only about the possible action of semi-lucid >entities. Predicting what "imps" might do is probably like guessing >what your cat is thinking. Oh, the cat's easy. "I'm hungry. Come into the kitchen and feed me." :) >> >During the VS, or an OBE that includes a VS, I'd expect the >> >Intruders to hang around close by and possibly try to >> >convince or distract you into ending the VS. >> >> Funny, the last time I fancied, "Hey, what if that voice belongs to an >> entity?" I played around with the white light shield technique, which >> induced vibes instead of the intended effect. If I was being >> distracted, it backfired. :) > >I've never heard of a Projector seeing a "white light shield" or any >other physical barrier to entities. If such mental constructs work >for some people then I'd guess that the "white light shield" is actually >a metaphor for the VS, possibly being manipulated by one's Helpers. Sheesh, where's John Fitzsimons when you need him? His contention is that concentrating on, or better still, radiating white light will dissolve mere thought forms, drive away negative entities, and attract positive entities/guides. Of course when I tried imagining radiating white light onto some dream characters one time they just all got quiet and looked at me funny. >> If I end the VS it's just to get up and get on with the OBE. > >Do you need to end the VS to Project? I need to stop paying attention to my physical body in bed and go off in the dream world. Since I'm not focused on physical sensations anymore it's hard to say if the vibey effect actually stops or I simply stop paying attention to it. >>Would an >> astral me who's running around goofing off be more appealing than a me >> who's lying quietly in SP and probably not too averse to having a >> sexual fantasy? I would think that parasites would prefer the latter, >> and want me to stay in SP, unless perhaps they've caught on that I >> might seriously maim them if they misbehave, or that I might even >> brazenly mention the inorganic entities. > >I liked your inorganic entities story, I'll have to remember to try that. >As to whether you are more appealing to Intruders when running >vs. lying completely paralyzed and ... and... vulnerable.... >Well, I can only speak for myself (but I won't). Good idea. >My understanding is that strong emotions are their favorite. >People with quick tempers or those who like loud or violent >arguements may find themselves commonly Intruded upon. >But this certainly isn't the only type of people who are most >at risk. > >For example: >I have a tendency to find almost everything in this world to >be rather funny. I may, at times, even make a joke or two >in less that optimal comedic situations. I was led to believe >recently that this may be due to an Intrusion by a close relative >who also had a similar type of humor. Did you only develop your sense of humor after this person died? >Obviously this is not >a "let's go kill little girls" type of intrusion so I don't feel overly >pressed to disengage it. In fact it might be better overall to >work with this Intruder towards a mutual betterment. > >> >Also their >> >change in relative position may mean a change in your >> >ability to detect either them or other entities. In other words >> >they are now energetically facing you rather than being >> >with you. >> > >> >Someone, such as yourself, who has always had frequent >> >OBEs may have attracted a type of Intruder who specializes >> >in acquiring energy from you while you are projected. >> >Especially if your typical actions or emotions while projected are >> >to its liking. >> >> I hope they like horseback riding, then. >> >> >This type of Intruder may be working to prevent >> >changes to your spectrum of OB experiences. Maybe masking >> >contacts with Helpers or, dare I say it, preventing you from >> >perceiving veridical information. :) >> >> Bastards! >> >> All right, the next imp I catch is going to catch it. Sure enough ... Unfortunately for the imp, the result of implanting that suggestion was what I can best describe as a nonlucid dream about sleep paralysis, so my mercies were untempered by lucidity. >> >Supposedly there are beneficial effects if you Project from >> >a location referred to as an "extraphysical clinic". This is a place >> >where Lucid Projectors have influenced the local energy >> >makeup, via frequent donations, and Helpers frequently go to >> >assist entities and help with deintrusion. Iguassu Falls, Brazil >> >might make a worthwhile vacation for you. If you wanted to >> >try something a little closer, I'd highly recommend you travel >> >to Miami and sit through the IIPC's classes. You probably >> >wouldn't have any difficulty Projecting during the practice >> >sessions. You'll also meet some very nice people and maybe >> >garner a new experience or two. >> >> Problem is I'm so suggestible that I could probably easily manufacture >> an experience to meet specs. Do these people acknowlege a difference >> between a genuine entity encounter and an encounter with one's own >> thought forms? > >Thought forms (thosenes), as I understand them are very low level >forms, so low they are rather hard to individually detect. We do collect >them and this collection does effect who you are in the near future. >In other words, if you had a bad habit, trolling say, and you suddenly >halted all your trolling activities, your energetic body would, for a short >while, still be attractive to other trolls, and you'd still feel that evil >urge. >But soon, you would become less and less attractive to the trolling >entities and they would all go to somewhere else. (a.a?) Ahhh. A pleasant vision. :) >I presume you mean the differences between encounters with real >external entities vs. dreamed entities. Yeah, that. >Yes! these people do feel that >clear distinctions can be made. But I'm not sure how to effectively >communicate them to you or whether they would be effective in your >perspective. To be perfectly honest, my concern is that you may >have inadvertently generated a sort of OBE rut. Possibly by simply >having so many of them, you may have actually developed bad >habits in your LD and OBE levels of consciousness. >(Sorry if I sound like your Mom again!) Oh, my Mom didn't have to keep me away from the boys. Boys stayed away from me in droves. >IMHO the encounter you should consider striving for is one with >a Helper. This is more problematic as true Helpers exist at such >a high level they (generally) can't be seen by us even when we're OB. >Helpers seem to need energy from willing Projectors in order to >manifest themselves or influence situations at low astral levels. >You might try willing yourself to Project to the highest plane you can >reach and attempt such contact. It might be refreshing for you to >experience an entity that has something interesting to say to you. ;) I'd be happy to meet one who knows what a corn muffin is. >My understanding of the Helper's "rules of engagement" suggest >that, although you probably won't get direct proof of the reality of >the OBE state from an encounter with a Helper, you may very well >come away with interesting new ideas on how to redirect your >Projective efforts. And it will be this redirection that results in the >type of proof you (and many others) seek. Thanks. Quite a complex system of belief, all this. ------- The secret to success is knowing who to blame for your failures. --Despair, Inc. ------- http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.htm ###### From: "William Bliss" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <6New6.447$el5.16223@wormhole.dimensional.com> Subject: Re: Lines: 22 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: X-Trace: MjIgTm9BdXRoVXNlciBURUxPQ0lUWS1SRUFERVJTIDY0LjM0LjIzOC4yMjUgIFdlZCwgMjggTWFy!IDIwMDEgMDk6MDk6NTAgUFOC X-Abuse-Info: Please forward ALL headers when reporting abuse. X-Complaints-To: abuse@telocity.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:09:50 PST Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:03:39 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!telocity-west!TELOCITY!newsrump.sjc.telocity.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:65158 Hi Ken, Thanks for your valued input. From the my woo-woo perspective, I can't help wondering to what extent we can improve our OBE's by changing the functionalities of our physical brain. I would be willing to perform extensive cognitive exercises directed towards lucidity and memory control if I found any rational model that would recommend particular exercises. Are there any exercises or lifestyle changes that would induce the frontal cortex to reactivate during certain types of dream activity (without waking us up)? I suspect you are correct in there being no simple relations between waking conscious habits and dreaming lucidity instigation. But I can't help but wonder. Wm ###### From: not-me@not-here.net (Janice) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Message-ID: <3ac230a2.14304507@news.starlinx.com> References: <6New6.447$el5.16223@wormhole.dimensional.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 39 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:40:41 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-jJJjpyTJrai9yUVcl8cgkJPBGuRzxqXKhK8y9Zs4/gAlLT8w5BEUaDc52G/YN++2/WmGq2E2u49oBJc!rIvS7BEmAdxPaygn5KHKi5eBHM0YfR9iVZsjpUy8AonedTuSFr2mBmscC8TYe7AIRbI0KuHKdQ== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:44:45 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:65124 On Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:03:39 -0500, "William Bliss" wrote: >Hi Ken, > >Thanks for your valued input. >From the my woo-woo perspective, I can't help wondering to what >extent we can improve our OBE's by changing the functionalities >of our physical brain. I would be willing to perform extensive cognitive >exercises directed towards lucidity and memory control if I found any >rational model that would recommend particular exercises. > >Are there any exercises or lifestyle changes that would induce the >frontal cortex to reactivate during certain types of dream activity >(without waking us up)? The one Ken recommends all the time: waking up early, getting up and doing something intellectual, then going back to bed. >I suspect you are correct in there being no simple relations between >waking conscious habits and dreaming lucidity instigation. >But I can't help but wonder. > > >Wm > > > ------- The only consistent feature of all your dissatisfying relationships is you.--Despair, Inc. ------- http://sites.netscape.net/jayavogelsong/ http://www.geocities.com/janice240obe/index.htm ###### From: Wanderer Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:01:23 -0600 Organization: Houston Area League of PC Users, Inc. Lines: 26 Message-ID: <3AC27B53.A91B44BF@astral.net> References: <6New6.447$el5.16223@wormhole.dimensional.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.180.130.60.dial-ip.hal-pc.org Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!news-in-austin.nuthinbutnews.com!feed2.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!dfw-feed.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!nntp1.hal-pc.org!news.hal-pc.org!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:65089 This page talks about amygdala stimulation that has profound effects on everyday experiences. http://www.viewzone.com/amygdala/index.html William Bliss wrote: > > Hi Ken, > > Thanks for your valued input. > From the my woo-woo perspective, I can't help wondering to what > extent we can improve our OBE's by changing the functionalities > of our physical brain. I would be willing to perform extensive cognitive > exercises directed towards lucidity and memory control if I found any > rational model that would recommend particular exercises. > > Are there any exercises or lifestyle changes that would induce the > frontal cortex to reactivate during certain types of dream activity > (without waking us up)? > > I suspect you are correct in there being no simple relations between > waking conscious habits and dreaming lucidity instigation. > But I can't help but wonder. > > Wm