From: "William Bliss" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <9420k6$vlr$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9429tf$8vk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <1enc4rz.1dik3yl1rtilv6N%spnak@petitmorte.net> <3a64e69f.13644308@news.lineone.net> <6H896.1392$Gr6.355160@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> <3a663254.10288030@news.lineone.net> <3a677914.8733000@news.lineone.net> <3A69F808.E408F41D@ozemu.com> <3a6de517.1663030@news.lineone.net> Subject: Modeling the Universe: Re: very bad nightmares- need help, please Lines: 99 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <_N0c6.4874$Ch.814954@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> X-Trace: OTk8Tm9BdXRoVW9lcjxURVBPQ0lUWS1SRUFERVJTIDY0LjM0LjIzOC4yLjUgIEhodSwgMikgSmFy!IDIwLDEgMS86LjI6MC4gUFNU X-Abuse-Info: Please forward ALL headers when reporting abuse. X-Complaints-To: abuse@telocity.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 13:22:02 PST Date: Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:16:50 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!grolier!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!telocity-west!TELOCITY!newsrump.sjc.telocity.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:62129 Ian & Friends, Excuse me for commenting on my own comment, But I wanted to clarify a few points. Ian, I gather you, like me, prefer the materialist paradigm, I.E. for an object to exist it must be made out of other somethings, the combined properties of these other "somthings" combine to produce the properties of the object. This assumption and the flavor of your postings is why I penned my response to you (and everyone). 1) Why I swapped topics (a little) in my previous post: Modeling consciousness on the neural net of the brain does an excellent job of explaining properties of normal physical life. But it totally fails if you include certain fairly common OB experiences into your set of phenomena that you are trying to model. The following is an incomplete but suggestive list: A) Smooth transitions "up" and "down" through the same alternate realities during many different OBEs. B) Agreements between Projectors on the ordering and properties of these alternate realities. C) A tendency for a Projector to have one of these alternate realities as their "energetically" preferred level. In other words, they will find themselves slowly fading down from higher levels until they reach this preferred level, and fading up from the lower ones. D) The common occurrence of nonverbal communications between Projectors and indigenous entities at some levels. E) Often Projectors will, when OB, have a higher level of Lucidity than they do in normal physical life. This often includes remembering activities they had forgotten while physical, especially previous OBEs, but also previous lives and time spent between lives. F) The less common ability to have a "second projection" where the Projector, while OB, then leaves his/her astral-body behind. Almost always this is accompanied by a large gain in the above mentioned Lucidity. It is these types of properties that have convinced many (but not all) Projectors to adopt a "Multi Dimensional" view of the Universe. For the neophyte projector this can be a killer of a paradigm shift. For all but the most open minded non- projectors this kind of shift in problem domain is virtually impossible. In either case, research in this area requires the ability to *trust* people, and the ability to trust one's own skills at deciding who and when to trust someone. This is why I mentioned psychotic skeptics. It is not in their power to trust anyone except those who have only experienced an arbitrary subset of phenomena. 2) Multiplexing in frequency space: I'm sorry if I was confusing in my previous post. I do think the VS is related to the process of separation of one or more structures, from the physical body, during the start of projection. But this is not what I was talking about. The question I was addressing is "how do we model overlapping realities?" Certainly, there are very few natural (physical) phenomena that are still unexplained that might suggest any such realities. Therefore these alternate realities must be very orthogonal to our own. Fourier analysis deals with just this type of idea, orthogonal frequencies (in a bound space). For example: Most people don't realize that when they speak, about 90% of the sound frequencies they are making, exist between (approximately) 500Hz and 3500Hz. This is a bandwidth of only 4000Hz. So... telephone companies will "multiplex" several conversations on top of each other, all on the same wire, by "translating" these low frequencies into higher frequencies on an unused portion of the wire's bandwidth. Whew!!! Now!!! Considering that the physical Universe is composed of deBroglie (probability) waves of a known (though wide) bandwidth, it may be possible for alternate realities to be built out of something as simple as higher frequencies of these same waves. Of course, this is only one of many possible means of modeling alternate realities. The reason I like it is that it avoids the idea of additional dimensions. We keep our easy to understand 3D space but have a simple way to think about Projectors and entities coexisting with us. I'll stop here before I confuse myself anymore. Wm ###### From: Haunter@castles.com (Haunter) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Modeling the Universe: Re: very bad nightmares- need help, please Date: Fri, 26 Jan 2001 02:24:35 GMT Organization: A.S.I./Psi -App/WCS Lines: 36 Message-ID: <3a7fdf9c.83268534@cnews.newsguy.com> References: <1enc4rz.1dik3yl1rtilv6N%spnak@petitmorte.net> <3a64e69f.13644308@news.lineone.net> <6H896.1392$Gr6.355160@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> <3a663254.10288030@news.lineone.net> <3a677914.8733000@news.lineone.net> <3A69F808.E408F41D@ozemu.com> <3a6de517.1663030@news.lineone.net> <_N0c6.4874$Ch.814954@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-554.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!165.113.238.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:62093 Thanks for that, Bill. Nicely put and easy to "grok" :) On Thu, 25 Jan 2001 16:16:50 -0500, "William Bliss" wrote: >Ian & Friends, > >Excuse me for commenting on my own comment, >But I wanted to clarify a few points. > >Ian, I gather you, like me, prefer the materialist paradigm, >I.E. for an object to exist it must be made out of other >somethings, the combined properties of these other >"somthings" combine to produce the properties of the >object. This assumption and the flavor of your postings >is why I penned my response to you (and everyone). >Of course, this is only one of many possible means >of modeling alternate realities. The reason I like it is >that it avoids the idea of additional dimensions. >We keep our easy to understand 3D space but have >a simple way to think about Projectors and entities >coexisting with us. > >I'll stop here before I confuse myself anymore. No, you did just fine :) Cheers: Patrick -- Knowledge is the Antidote for Fear http://www.whitecrowsociety.com http://www.legendsmagazine.net/pan/rayn/rpm http://www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/3549/stories.htm ###### From: Craig Shillington Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Modeling the Universe: Re: very bad nightmares- need help, please Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 08:22:57 +1100 Organization: Deja Vous Lines: 36 Message-ID: <3A71EAB1.B2CBA538@ozemu.com> References: <9420k6$vlr$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9429tf$8vk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <1enc4rz.1dik3yl1rtilv6N%spnak@petitmorte.net> <3a64e69f.13644308@news.lineone.net> <6H896.1392$Gr6.355160@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> <3a663254.10288030@news.lineone.net> <3a677914.8733000@news.lineone.net> <3A69F808.E408F41D@ozemu.com> <3a6de517.1663030@news.lineone.net> <_N0c6.4874$Ch.814954@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp109.horsham.ozemu.com (203.24.252.109) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 980545878 15482880 203.24.252.109 (16 [27978]) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,ja Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!ppp109.horsham.ozemu.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:62161 Hi William, > 2) Multiplexing in frequency space: > I'm sorry if I was confusing in my previous post. I do > think the VS is related to the process of separation of > one or more structures, from the physical body, during > the start of projection. But this is not what I was talking > about. I was just thinking about the VS and frequencies of the different realities and it reminded me of a thought I posted here a while ago about maybe why some people feel the VS and others don't. It goes something like this: What if the VS was a state we found ourselves in when we could feel the vibrational frequencies of to realities at the same time? If we were in a state between physical reality and the alternate reality of an OBE and felt the two different vibrations from these states because they clashed with each other? This would sort of explain why we felt them pretty well only upon *seperation* or upon returning to the physical. Also, what if some people were able to make the transition from the two states fairly quickly, maybe they would hardly feel them at all ... if at all? Just a bit of a woo-woo- thought. ;) Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin -- ###### From: Lan Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Modeling the Universe: Re: very bad nightmares- need help, please Organization: collection60@hotmail.kom References: <9420k6$vlr$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9429tf$8vk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <1enc4rz.1dik3yl1rtilv6N%spnak@petitmorte.net> <3a64e69f.13644308@news.lineone.net> <6H896.1392$Gr6.355160@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> <3a663254.10288030@news.lineone.net> <3a677914.8733000@news.lineone.net> <3A69F808.E408F41D@ozemu.com> <3a6de517.1663030@news.lineone.net> <_N0c6.4874$Ch.814954@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: ('6#W3M0VcTo"48.W9C'HH[]}D;ZATZ;(K~h4&sqcUp(NpxUQKztt93LZ(hMQ fp[:%MK!c2S<7'Ix>7fum|@@+m;v]O}!`+Rg@pmO,1K@=D\|:tUx.1f}#!Jb>$v4!3B7 5y}=X\oO+7!v/`>7$0-n4I>9[D;$BlY)$hw#Yg|f&DLl"r-%v9Hi(-a&$CrP1/*V|6m] ?y"O*bT`sw@nd<_L!l2e>*95Q>&/A6B-)AW-#g/saJ|t/arNjaLt.0di4Fl Message-ID: Lines: 22 Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 01:00:21 +0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.62.33 X-Complaints-To: news-admin@dircon.co.uk X-Trace: news.dircon.co.uk 980557095 194.112.62.33 (Sat, 27 Jan 2001 00:58:15 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 27 Jan 2001 00:58:15 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peer2.news.dircon.net!news.dircon.co.uk.POSTED!asdfg Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:62451 "William Bliss" wrote: > The question I was addressing is "how do we model overlapping > realities?" Certainly, there are very few natural (physical) phenomena > that are still unexplained that might suggest any such realities. > Therefore these alternate realities must be very orthogonal to our > own. You don't know very much about spiritual healing, manifestation using the mind and other advanced uses of the mind then. There are plenty of things that would scientifically validate interacting alternate realities, its just that the mainstream academia ignores them. -- Kill all feminists, make them feel the pain they are responsible for creating so that it destroys them. Stop at nothing to make every single fucking evil sexist female feel every thing they did do, plus everything they could have done, and added to that everything they even ever wanted to do. DESTROY THEM ICQ: 26027485 ###### From: "The Original Ken" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <9420k6$vlr$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <9429tf$8vk$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <1enc4rz.1dik3yl1rtilv6N%spnak@petitmorte.net> <3a64e69f.13644308@news.lineone.net> <6H896.1392$Gr6.355160@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> <3a663254.10288030@news.lineone.net> <3a677914.8733000@news.lineone.net> <3A69F808.E408F41D@ozemu.com> <3a6de517.1663030@news.lineone.net> <_N0c6.4874$Ch.814954@newsrump.sjc.telocity.net> <3A71EAB1.B2CBA538@ozemu.com> Subject: Re: Modeling the Universe: Re: very bad nightmares- need help, please Lines: 48 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:37:30 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.241.33.50 X-Trace: wormhole.dimensional.com 980735832 216.241.33.50 (Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:37:12 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 28 Jan 2001 19:37:12 MST Organization: Interlink Advertising Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!pulsar.dimensional.com!dimensional.com!wormhole.dimensional.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:62509 Craig Shillington wrote in message news:3A71EAB1.B2CBA538@ozemu.com... > > > Hi William, > > > 2) Multiplexing in frequency space: > > I'm sorry if I was confusing in my previous post. I do > > think the VS is related to the process of separation of > > one or more structures, from the physical body, during > > the start of projection. But this is not what I was talking > > about. > > I was just thinking about the VS and frequencies of the different > realities and it reminded me of a thought I posted here a while ago > about maybe why some people feel the VS and others don't. It goes > something like this: > > What if the VS was a state we found ourselves in when we could feel > the vibrational frequencies of to realities at the same time? If we > were in a state between physical reality and the alternate reality of > an OBE and felt the two different vibrations from these states because > they clashed with each other? This would sort of explain why we felt > them pretty well only upon *seperation* or upon returning to the > physical. Also, what if some people were able to make the transition > from the two states fairly quickly, maybe they would hardly feel them > at all ... if at all? Interesting.... > > Just a bit of a woo-woo- thought. ;) More like whoop whoop. Ken > > Craig > > -- > The sure way to make a thing impossible- > -is to think it so. --- Franklin > -- > >