From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: My new (ancient) technique Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 01:53:08 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 49 Message-ID: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.72.6a X-Server-Date: 13 Dec 2000 06:52:58 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net.MISMATCH!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59564 "Light" or "Star" Method: This is something I've been doing lately - with excellent results. I call this an "advanced" method because many beginners may not understand what they are looking for. It can also be rather tedious. I did not invent it - it is a very old method. I just relate it here in my own words. It took me a long time to understand it through the words of others - but once I finally got the idea, then it was easy to understand at my own level. In this method, you close your eyes and wait for a pinpoint of light to appear within the vision of your eyes. It can happen anywhere within the black or cloudy plane of vision. It will usually appear in one place, stay for a moment, and then appear in another location. It can appear to be far or near. Several may appear at the same time - notice the brightest as the goal. Simply "identify" It as your goal. Once you see It, say (non-vocally) something like, "Oh... there you are." It may help to think of "It" to be a more advanced "living being". But considering a few of the attitudes in this group... maybe some would rather call It a doorway, or portal, or entrance to another level of consciousness. You can practice with this any time during your normal day - regardless of your intention of making a complete shift in consciousness. Just close your eyes and practice looking for that point of light. When you see It, just say, "Oh, there you are" and open your eyes again to continue with your day. When meditating with intent to make the shift, keep watching for It but let It remain detached from your desire to focus on It. Do not attempt to hold It in your focus, but permit It to become relaxed within your view. In other words, allow It to get "comfortable" with you - and you with It. With practice, you will find that It stabilizes at the center of your internal and external vision - it becomes a gateway into the hypnogogic state. Do not focus - just watch and relax. As you relax and slip into the vision beyond the normal "eye" vision, the hypnogogic stage, watch for the brightest spot within any image that may cross the "mind's eye" as you move inward. Pay no attention to the rest of the image at all - only identify the brightest point in the image as your goal. Again, It will change position, but It will eventually stabilize and draw you into Itself once you finally relax enough to release the physical. Then... with a ZOOOOOM!!! The shift is made! Bart ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Lines: 67 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: <0VJZ5.62$934.22511@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> X-Trace: +L2tqGPwE5NtSfomFAcR95PcA1FgE/oU/q7tBMKqsvZ/wub3T46nMZnS1DKCSSug6mBWLj/fClgJ!X/5eY6RqUL7aRBAnBdLNhJdSoT8bPx/KybLm+63biBJF5PBaEMV2WBVvI0ha9vvxngIygqJhBnS7!yWnpIg== X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 12:25:32 GMT Distribution: world Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 12:25:32 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!paloalto-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59566 Bart wrote in message <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>... >"Light" or "Star" Method: > >This is something I've been doing lately - with excellent results. > >I call this an "advanced" method because many beginners may not understand >what they are looking for. It can also be rather tedious. I did not invent >it - it is a very old method. I just relate it here in my own words. It >took me a long time to understand it through the words of others - but once >I finally got the idea, then it was easy to understand at my own level. > >In this method, you close your eyes and wait for a pinpoint of light to >appear within the vision of your eyes. It can happen anywhere within the >black or cloudy plane of vision. It will usually appear in one place, stay >for a moment, and then appear in another location. It can appear to be far >or near. Several may appear at the same time - notice the brightest as the >goal. > >Simply "identify" It as your goal. Once you see It, say (non-vocally) >something like, "Oh... there you are." It may help to think of "It" to be a >more advanced "living being". But considering a few of the attitudes in >this group... maybe some would rather call It a doorway, or portal, or >entrance to another level of consciousness. You can practice with this any >time during your normal day - regardless of your intention of making a >complete shift in consciousness. Just close your eyes and practice looking >for that point of light. When you see It, just say, "Oh, there you are" and >open your eyes again to continue with your day. > >When meditating with intent to make the shift, keep watching for It but let >It remain detached from your desire to focus on It. Do not attempt to hold >It in your focus, but permit It to become relaxed within your view. In >other words, allow It to get "comfortable" with you - and you with It. With >practice, you will find that It stabilizes at the center of your internal >and external vision - it becomes a gateway into the hypnogogic state. Do >not focus - just watch and relax. > >As you relax and slip into the vision beyond the normal "eye" vision, the >hypnogogic stage, watch for the brightest spot within any image that may >cross the "mind's eye" as you move inward. Pay no attention to the rest of >the image at all - only identify the brightest point in the image as your >goal. Again, It will change position, but It will eventually stabilize and >draw you into Itself once you finally relax enough to release the physical. > >Then... with a ZOOOOOM!!! The shift is made! > >Bart Thanks Bart. I'll try this one. Think I'll focus on it as a doorway, as I like doorways and teleports and such. I'll try it tonight, and if you'll still be around I'll post my results. I've also been working with my favorite 'detachment' meditation technique that can also be done with good results throughout the day. I'll post it if anyone is interested. -- http://www.geocities.com/fl_simian/welcome.html ###### From: Yagi Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 13:47:22 +0100 Organization: tp.internet - http://www.tpi.pl Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <0VJZ5.62$934.22511@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: robot.unizeto.pl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.tpi.pl 976711549 3066 212.244.2.4 (13 Dec 2000 12:45:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@tpi.pl NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Dec 2000 12:45:49 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.man.poznan.pl!poznan.rmf.pl!warszawa.rmf.pl!news.tpi.pl!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59578 On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 12:25:32 GMT, "Trish" wrote: [...] > >I've also been working with my favorite 'detachment' meditation technique >that can also be done with good results throughout the day. >I'll post it if anyone is interested. I'm very interested on every meditation method. I've just started with meditation and i'm looking for the method which will work best for me. Yagi ###### Message-ID: <3A37DBDD.67C3639C@visi.net> From: John Garrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 62 Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:28:13 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.8.199.71 X-Trace: firenze 976739811 209.8.199.71 (Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:36:51 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2000 15:36:51 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsxfer.visi.net!206.246.194.3.MISMATCH!firenze!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59672 Bart wrote: > > "Light" or "Star" Method: > > This is something I've been doing lately - with excellent results. > > I call this an "advanced" method because many beginners may not understand > what they are looking for. It can also be rather tedious. I did not invent > it - it is a very old method. I just relate it here in my own words. It > took me a long time to understand it through the words of others - but once > I finally got the idea, then it was easy to understand at my own level. > > In this method, you close your eyes and wait for a pinpoint of light to > appear within the vision of your eyes. It can happen anywhere within the > black or cloudy plane of vision. It will usually appear in one place, stay > for a moment, and then appear in another location. It can appear to be far > or near. Several may appear at the same time - notice the brightest as the > goal. > > Simply "identify" It as your goal. Once you see It, say (non-vocally) > something like, "Oh... there you are." It may help to think of "It" to be a > more advanced "living being". But considering a few of the attitudes in > this group... maybe some would rather call It a doorway, or portal, or > entrance to another level of consciousness. You can practice with this any > time during your normal day - regardless of your intention of making a > complete shift in consciousness. Just close your eyes and practice looking > for that point of light. When you see It, just say, "Oh, there you are" and > open your eyes again to continue with your day. > > When meditating with intent to make the shift, keep watching for It but let > It remain detached from your desire to focus on It. Do not attempt to hold > It in your focus, but permit It to become relaxed within your view. In > other words, allow It to get "comfortable" with you - and you with It. With > practice, you will find that It stabilizes at the center of your internal > and external vision - it becomes a gateway into the hypnogogic state. Do > not focus - just watch and relax. > > As you relax and slip into the vision beyond the normal "eye" vision, the > hypnogogic stage, watch for the brightest spot within any image that may > cross the "mind's eye" as you move inward. Pay no attention to the rest of > the image at all - only identify the brightest point in the image as your > goal. Again, It will change position, but It will eventually stabilize and > draw you into Itself once you finally relax enough to release the physical. > > Then... with a ZOOOOOM!!! The shift is made! > > Bart Thanks Bart! That sort of focusing exercise can be used for alot of things, you can block out pain (although possibly not completely), lower your blood pressure, I've even been able to stay underwater a little longer by doing such an exercise and trying to make the air in my lungs last longer. I've never thought of using such a technique for OOBE though, not sure I have the patience to stare at a light (I've always used a little red dot that I create in the center of vision for the above exercises, so I suppose the techniques may be slightly different after all) for long periods of time. -- "I'm willing to J.O.B., just not on no jagg-off shoe-shine tip" "Jagg-off shoe-shine tip?" "No *background-checking* jagg-off shoe-shine tip" ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <0VJZ5.62$934.22511@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Lines: 48 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: +rUPLv7SjFKqNsLBa0uybUh5cZkTdHROXKa1RYcqTKut7KtUh6prfy28WtSdUnkU81U2j0bLyO5Y!V/YW7x6QkOTRqcnQRoguevYScH8k9MztnIut/rRi5lURNFCDLmjUfGOyAn2I4QP+/Zyh0Qs8ImWH!59iIZ2aj X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 03:56:33 GMT Distribution: world Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 03:56:34 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59651 Yagi wrote in message ... >On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 12:25:32 GMT, "Trish" wrote: > >[...] >> >>I've also been working with my favorite 'detachment' meditation technique >>that can also be done with good results throughout the day. >>I'll post it if anyone is interested. > >I'm very interested on every meditation method. I've just started with >meditation and i'm looking for the method which will work best for me. > >Yagi This one is specific to daily life. I find it useful, because when successful, it provides the perfect sense of balance between direction and detachment which is essential to OBEs. And it's *easy* .. and can be done just about any time. ----- Whatever you are doing, keep your attention on the gap between two breaths. But it must be practiced while in activity. Why? Because activity distracts the mind. Activity calls your attention again and again. Do not be distracted. Be fixed at the gap, and do not stop the activity ... let the activity continue. You will have two layers of existance - doing and being. Go on working on the periphery, continuing with your activity, do not stop it. But also continue focusing on your center (the gap) also. What will happen? Your activity will become an acting, as if you are playing a part ..... and another part of you takes a step back, as the watcher. ----- It's a very simple technique that anyone can try. You are not forcing or anticipating your breathing. Just watching it. And you can feel when the moment of detachment takes place. Carrying this over into the sleep process has helped me induce OBEs on many occasions. Especially when I was first starting to re-familiarize myself with them. I find that the best way to enter into an OBE is by watching, not doing. -- http://www.geocities.com/fl_simian/welcome.html ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 00:17:06 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 38 Message-ID: <919l5s$t77$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3A37EF7C.CD67046@Home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.78.3b X-Server-Date: 14 Dec 2000 05:17:48 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59634 Tien Yen wrote in message <3A37EF7C.CD67046@Home.com>... >Thanks, Bart. This is a keeper. Can you elaborate on the 'ancient' >aspect a bit? > >Cheers, >Tien Yen Um... people have been meditating for a long time :-) Some have noticed that "light" is a powerful aspect of consciousness. Both "light" and "stars" are quite basic. They carry a lot of power, but they do not command a pattern. Therefore, the shift would be most pure in a visual sense. I make the statement that it is "ancient" because "light" is mentioned in almost every meditative situation of any value. Shabda yoga and other yoga meditation techniques often mention "light" or "star". Throughout all spiritual writings you will find comments on "light" and "stars". This is not just a reference to "understanding". It is a "visual" light experience. The "Near Death Experience" involves light. Almost all mystical experiences involve a great deal of light. It's just a basic meditative technique to look for light. It always has been. Light is the goal. Bart ###### Lines: 29 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: markenadms@aol.com (MarkenAdms) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Date: 14 Dec 2000 06:39:32 GMT References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Message-ID: <20001214013932.28810.00004000@ng-cl1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lmu.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!news.algonet.se!algonet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59617 >From: "Bart" Bartma12@ix.netcom.com >I did not invent >it - it is a very old method. I just relate it here in my own words. >In this method, you close your eyes and wait for a pinpoint of light to >appear within the vision of your eyes. (remainder nipped) Something rather similar to what you describe is depicted in one of the "Billy Jack" series of movies. This series featured Tom Laughlin as "Billy Jack", who is a member of a southwestern U.S. aboriginal tribe. He sees an intense blue light ("dokish") with his eyes open during a sweat lodge ritual and goes on something like an oobe, a sort of vision experience understood to be real transportation of some astral self or some encounter with a different plan of existence intimately related to the known world. Perhaps the fellow who chimes in to alt.out-of-body with the shaman faq is knowledgable about the actual ritual. The movie series is a must see on quite different grounds. Unless one paid close attention during the 60s and 70s one might not have noticed that counterculture types can go from guerilla warfare acts and demands that they all bomb a nearby dam to (incredibly) singing that "All they are saying is give peace a chance" in the space of a few minutes. You had to be alert and have your crap detector fully functioning during the 60-70s counterculture to really grasp things like this. So the movies are a great must see on another ground. ###### From: Yagi Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 08:36:28 +0100 Organization: tp.internet - http://www.tpi.pl Lines: 35 Message-ID: <3ptg3t0j49lffe2thvp523eudrat4b7des@4ax.com> References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <0VJZ5.62$934.22511@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: robot.unizeto.pl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.tpi.pl 976779296 9808 212.244.2.4 (14 Dec 2000 07:34:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@tpi.pl NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2000 07:34:56 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.man.poznan.pl!poznan.rmf.pl!warszawa.rmf.pl!news.tpi.pl!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59656 On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 03:56:34 GMT, "Trish" wrote: >This one is specific to daily life. I find it useful, because when >successful, it provides the perfect sense of balance between direction and >detachment which is essential to OBEs. And it's *easy* .. and can be done >just about any time. > >----- > >Whatever you are doing, keep your attention on the gap between two breaths. >But it must be practiced while in activity. Why? Because activity >distracts the mind. Activity calls your attention again and again. Do not >be distracted. Be fixed at the gap, and do not stop the activity ... let >the activity continue. You will have two layers of existance - doing and >being. > >Go on working on the periphery, continuing with your activity, do not stop >it. But also continue focusing on your center (the gap) also. What will >happen? Your activity will become an acting, as if you are playing a part >..... and another part of you takes a step back, as the watcher. > >----- > >It's a very simple technique that anyone can try. You are not forcing or >anticipating your breathing. Just watching it. And you can feel when the >moment of detachment takes place. Carrying this over into the sleep process >has helped me induce OBEs on many occasions. Especially when I was first >starting to re-familiarize myself with them. > >I find that the best way to enter into an OBE is by watching, not doing. This method is very resonable for me. I'll give it a try. Thanks a lot. Yagi ###### From: "Euno" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <0VJZ5.62$934.22511@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 02:14:57 -0600 Lines: 12 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 NNTP-Posting-Host: shv6-188.shreve.net Message-ID: <3a3882e4$1_2@news.shreve.net> X-Trace: 14 Dec 2000 02:20:52 -0600, shv6-188.shreve.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!news.gtei.net.MISMATCH!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!feeder.qis.net!news-xfer.newsread.com!bad-news.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!news.shreve.net!shv6-188.shreve.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59610 Trish, This sounds like a good technique. I've noticed that if I try to focus on some contrived image say like a lotus the image always falls apart when I breathe. I believe that you've given me the explaination as to why. On the other hand, it would seem difficult to watch the breath without wanting to govern it. i guess that this takes practice as anything else. One other thing, last night when meditating, my attention had trailed off and something had brought it back. Upon coming back I heard a sound like a latch being shut. I know others have heard this, but what is it? Wade ###### From: Yagi Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 10:55:39 +0100 Organization: tp.internet - http://www.tpi.pl Lines: 40 Message-ID: <9k5h3topjbconcqe4067lau0er53oe6am4@4ax.com> References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <0VJZ5.62$934.22511@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: robot.unizeto.pl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.tpi.pl 976787646 5629 212.244.2.4 (14 Dec 2000 09:54:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@tpi.pl NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Dec 2000 09:54:06 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.task.gda.pl!news.tpi.pl!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59655 On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 03:56:34 GMT, "Trish" wrote: >This one is specific to daily life. I find it useful, because when >successful, it provides the perfect sense of balance between direction and >detachment which is essential to OBEs. And it's *easy* .. and can be done >just about any time. > >----- > >Whatever you are doing, keep your attention on the gap between two breaths. >But it must be practiced while in activity. Why? Because activity >distracts the mind. Activity calls your attention again and again. Do not >be distracted. Be fixed at the gap, and do not stop the activity ... let >the activity continue. You will have two layers of existance - doing and >being. > >Go on working on the periphery, continuing with your activity, do not stop >it. But also continue focusing on your center (the gap) also. What will >happen? Your activity will become an acting, as if you are playing a part >..... and another part of you takes a step back, as the watcher. > >----- > >It's a very simple technique that anyone can try. You are not forcing or >anticipating your breathing. Just watching it. And you can feel when the >moment of detachment takes place. Carrying this over into the sleep process >has helped me induce OBEs on many occasions. Especially when I was first >starting to re-familiarize myself with them. > >I find that the best way to enter into an OBE is by watching, not doing. The hell, i've been trying this for a few hours and it's very hard to keep attention on the gap between two breaths while doing something else. I always forgot to watch it. But i hope that during the practise I'll make some progress. I have a question. Why i should focus on this gaps? Can I keep attention on my breathing in general? Yagi ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <0VJZ5.62$934.22511@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> <9k5h3topjbconcqe4067lau0er53oe6am4@4ax.com> Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Lines: 64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: +L6QmxNabw7pa6DFRZSSbPllWkz/Q+jV/879cv0kBS1jvE6X8zzQfGdaMs8MHR9xo0lL5LIhn7IG!JSYlMIZIm2vBg/u4kf56cvu+ZHdRtRWJCowwMNw6V4Y2fMq0g0UlU0HZSs7B1wPtdlbrwZUb6zjI!jNlXg3k= X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:32:37 GMT Distribution: world Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:32:37 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59640 Yagi wrote in message <9k5h3topjbconcqe4067lau0er53oe6am4@4ax.com>... >On Thu, 14 Dec 2000 03:56:34 GMT, "Trish" wrote: > >>This one is specific to daily life. I find it useful, because when >>successful, it provides the perfect sense of balance between direction and >>detachment which is essential to OBEs. And it's *easy* .. and can be done >>just about any time. >> >>----- >> >>Whatever you are doing, keep your attention on the gap between two breaths. >>But it must be practiced while in activity. Why? Because activity >>distracts the mind. Activity calls your attention again and again. Do not >>be distracted. Be fixed at the gap, and do not stop the activity ... let >>the activity continue. You will have two layers of existance - doing and >>being. >> >>Go on working on the periphery, continuing with your activity, do not stop >>it. But also continue focusing on your center (the gap) also. What will >>happen? Your activity will become an acting, as if you are playing a part >>..... and another part of you takes a step back, as the watcher. >> >>----- >> >>It's a very simple technique that anyone can try. You are not forcing or >>anticipating your breathing. Just watching it. And you can feel when the >>moment of detachment takes place. Carrying this over into the sleep process >>has helped me induce OBEs on many occasions. Especially when I was first >>starting to re-familiarize myself with them. >> >>I find that the best way to enter into an OBE is by watching, not doing. > >The hell, i've been trying this for a few hours and it's very hard to >keep attention on the gap between two breaths while doing something >else. I always forgot to watch it. But i hope that during the practise >I'll make some progress. > >I have a question. Why i should focus on this gaps? Can I keep >attention on my breathing in general? > >Yagi It does take a little practice. Don't try to control your breathing at all. Just notice it. Perhaps you can try it with a simple activity first that doesn't involve too much distraction ... while doing dishes, or folding laundry ... or better yet, where I first started using it .... waiting in the long lines of the grocery stores. And don't worry about the gaps you missed. Reassure yourself with the gaps you noticed. Why focus on the gaps? Because after you exhale, your body is in a natural state of relaxation. The point is to retain a high level of awareness, during this watchful state of relaxation ... and not to get swept up into the drama that's going on around you. If you need to, start first with breathing in general ... then take it from there. Ultimately, this needs to work for *you* .. so however you feel comfortable approaching it is exactly the way it should be done. In Buddhist terminology this technique is known as "Anapanasati Yoga". ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <0VJZ5.62$934.22511@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> <3a3882e4$1_2@news.shreve.net> Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Lines: 28 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: /KHlxOevzIIR2XhGVkowlmlSifKXH15v6t9an/FSyixvOpKfjF1ZnmbWBcZVu2ul/EeysTtOGeTo!Lu90vdgysapE4H77xIMFGt/CuPNk6hut0TYxczUpjo6FeazfyHjvOZunFEZdKQQ5qP05yXzQTiys!BIk6BsU= X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:40:33 GMT Distribution: world Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:40:33 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lmu.de!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59638 Euno wrote in message <3a3882e4$1_2@news.shreve.net>... >Trish, >This sounds like a good technique. I've noticed that if I try to focus on >some contrived image say like a lotus the image always falls apart when I >breathe. I believe that you've given me the explaination as to why. On the >other hand, it would seem difficult to watch the breath without wanting to >govern it. i guess that this takes practice as anything else. >One other thing, last night when meditating, my attention had trailed off >and something had brought it back. Upon coming back I heard a sound like a >latch being shut. I know others have heard this, but what is it? >Wade You will feel the need to govern the breath at first ... but that's ok. It will recede. A latch being shut? IMO a good sign. Some subtle part of your subconscious is pulling you back to the task at hand. Hopefully it's not too overwhelming. To me, it's like a rubber band effect. When my OBEs are frequent (when I'm not on medication) it tends to "snap" me back from falling asleep ... and generally leads right into a vibrational OBE state. Allow yourself to get used to the feeling, because when it feels natural to you, it could be a big benefit. ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3A37EF7C.CD67046@Home.com> <919l5s$t77$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Lines: 50 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: <_m2_5.151$lH4.38275@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> X-Trace: +4LrtqrQZeing0Lm3K24LOusm2eWmlWMWlPmRS/QMg3nj8ent3rKPg5eWJAxcDkdfP3Gh+oAm57x!RAYocbVEsAu/w8qr2rIohGfE0DZOZYqvJQNufyeJWiok7Od7oMvN2cOe9m+m2WbP5YRQLW1T/NU0!r1vPi6E= X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:42:50 GMT Distribution: world Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 11:42:51 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.online.no!nextra.com!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59639 Bart wrote in message <919l5s$t77$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>... > >Tien Yen wrote in message <3A37EF7C.CD67046@Home.com>... > > >>Thanks, Bart. This is a keeper. Can you elaborate on the 'ancient' >>aspect a bit? >> >>Cheers, >>Tien Yen > >Um... people have been meditating for a long time :-) Some have noticed >that "light" is a powerful aspect of consciousness. Both "light" and >"stars" are quite basic. They carry a lot of power, but they do not command >a pattern. Therefore, the shift would be most pure in a visual sense. > >I make the statement that it is "ancient" because "light" is mentioned in >almost every meditative situation of any value. > >Shabda yoga and other yoga meditation techniques often mention "light" or >"star". > >Throughout all spiritual writings you will find comments on "light" and >"stars". This is not just a reference to "understanding". It is a "visual" >light experience. > >The "Near Death Experience" involves light. > >Almost all mystical experiences involve a great deal of light. > >It's just a basic meditative technique to look for light. It always has >been. > >Light is the goal. > >Bart Bart .... I tried this last night, but could find no light! Only darkness. : ( Maybe I should wait until the hynogogia sets in, and then focus on the lightest aspect there? -- http://www.geocities.com/fl_simian/welcome.html ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <0VJZ5.62$934.22511@paloalto-snr1.gtei.net> <3a3882e4$1_2@news.shreve.net> Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Lines: 36 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:16:47 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.78.241.77 X-Trace: news3.atl 976803662 216.78.241.77 (Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:21:02 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:21:02 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed.atl!news3.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59596 Trish wrote in message ... : : : :Euno wrote in message <3a3882e4$1_2@news.shreve.net>... :>Trish, :>This sounds like a good technique. I've noticed that if I try to focus on :>some contrived image say like a lotus the image always falls apart when I :>breathe. I believe that you've given me the explaination as to why. On :the :>other hand, it would seem difficult to watch the breath without wanting to :>govern it. i guess that this takes practice as anything else. :>One other thing, last night when meditating, my attention had trailed off :>and something had brought it back. Upon coming back I heard a sound like a :>latch being shut. I know others have heard this, but what is it? :>Wade : : :You will feel the need to govern the breath at first ... but that's ok. It :will recede. : :A latch being shut? IMO a good sign. Some subtle part of your subconscious :is pulling you back to the task at hand. Hopefully it's not too :overwhelming. To me, it's like a rubber band effect. When my OBEs are :frequent (when I'm not on medication) it tends to "snap" me back from :falling asleep ... and generally leads right into a vibrational OBE state. :Allow yourself to get used to the feeling, because when it feels natural to :you, it could be a big benefit. : Hey Trish. That does sound like a good technique. i am going to try that too. Thanks! ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3A37EF7C.CD67046@Home.com> <919l5s$t77$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Lines: 46 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: <7L4_5.3044$Kk.81344@news3.atl> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:20:51 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.78.241.77 X-Trace: news3.atl 976803907 216.78.241.77 (Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:25:07 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 09:25:07 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news3.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59590 Bart wrote in message <919l5s$t77$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>... : :Tien Yen wrote in message <3A37EF7C.CD67046@Home.com>... : : :>Thanks, Bart. This is a keeper. Can you elaborate on the 'ancient' :>aspect a bit? :> :>Cheers, :>Tien Yen : :Um... people have been meditating for a long time :-) Some have noticed :that "light" is a powerful aspect of consciousness. Both "light" and :"stars" are quite basic. They carry a lot of power, but they do not command :a pattern. Therefore, the shift would be most pure in a visual sense. : :I make the statement that it is "ancient" because "light" is mentioned in :almost every meditative situation of any value. : :Shabda yoga and other yoga meditation techniques often mention "light" or :"star". : :Throughout all spiritual writings you will find comments on "light" and :"stars". This is not just a reference to "understanding". It is a "visual" :light experience. : :The "Near Death Experience" involves light. : :Almost all mystical experiences involve a great deal of light. : :It's just a basic meditative technique to look for light. It always has :been. : :Light is the goal. : :Bart : Thanks Bart. I am going to try this . Does it help to try it during various times of day not just when meditating to make it easier when meditating. Sort of like practice makes perfect? ###### From: "chris H" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Lines: 64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:57:58 -0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.104.136.208 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 976834661 213.104.136.208 (Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:57:41 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2000 22:57:41 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!gxn.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59691 Bart wrote in message news:9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net... > "Light" or "Star" Method: > > This is something I've been doing lately - with excellent results. > > I call this an "advanced" method because many beginners may not understand > what they are looking for. It can also be rather tedious. I did not invent > it - it is a very old method. I just relate it here in my own words. It > took me a long time to understand it through the words of others - but once > I finally got the idea, then it was easy to understand at my own level. >snip< Hi, I thought I'd share this with you as it really freaked me out when I read your post ! This is my first post to the group (hi everybody) - I have been reading the odd post for the last few weeks - basically whenever I can get online.... The reason for my post is this :- Tuesday (12th) night we had a tremendous storm - I could not sleep with the noise against the window. After 3 hours of trying to sleep I decided to try something - I imagined myself as a point of light - an individual point of light in the universe (don't ask me why) - I then defocused my gaze and gradually I found myself relaxing and not hearing the wind and noise which was keeping me awake. After a few minutes I noticed the light became brighter - and as soon as I realised this it literally jumped from it's position infront of me straight into my eyes - with a massive sensation hitting me. This really startled me - as I was not trying to meditate or have any sort of experience - I was just trying to get to sleep ! A few moments later I had a picture of a green forest appear infront of me - a small window sized picture. I found that I kept telling myself to become part of the picture - and each time I did so the image grew until I found myself stepping through it - unfortunately it was at this point I must have fallen asleep as I do not remember what happened next. What I do know is that I did not have any previous knowledge of that meditation technique or anything similar - I'm not one for mediation usually ! - so you can imagine my shock as I read your description of this ancient technique ! - have I read it subconsciously somewhere ? - who knows.... All I know is that without any knowledge of this ,or any other meditation method, I accidentally replicated your technique !! - albeit briefly ! This has had quite an effect on me - and I am still puzzled how I came to think of the point of light - where did I get the idea from ? I honestly don't know ! But I will try and continue using this method as I am intrigued on how it affected me. Cheers Chris ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Lines: 67 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:16:04 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.78.240.207 X-Trace: news3.atl 976890022 216.78.240.207 (Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:20:22 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 09:20:22 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news3.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59685 chris H wrote in message ... : :Bart wrote in message :news:9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net... :> "Light" or "Star" Method: :> :> This is something I've been doing lately - with excellent results. :> :> I call this an "advanced" method because many beginners may not understand :> what they are looking for. It can also be rather tedious. I did not :invent :> it - it is a very old method. I just relate it here in my own words. It :> took me a long time to understand it through the words of others - but :once :> I finally got the idea, then it was easy to understand at my own level. :>snip< : :Hi, : :I thought I'd share this with you as it really freaked me out when I read :your post ! : :This is my first post to the group (hi everybody) - I have been reading the :odd post for the last few weeks - basically whenever I can get online.... : :The reason for my post is this :- : :Tuesday (12th) night we had a tremendous storm - I could not sleep with the :noise against the window. After 3 hours of trying to sleep I decided to try :something - I imagined myself as a point of light - an individual point of :light in the universe (don't ask me why) - I then defocused my gaze and :gradually I found myself relaxing and not hearing the wind and noise which :was keeping me awake. After a few minutes I noticed the light became :brighter - and as soon as I realised this it literally jumped from it's :position infront of me straight into my eyes - with a massive sensation :hitting me. This really startled me - as I was not trying to meditate or :have any sort of experience - I was just trying to get to sleep ! :A few moments later I had a picture of a green forest appear infront of me - :a small window sized picture. I found that I kept telling myself to become :part of the picture - and each time I did so the image grew until I found :myself stepping through it - unfortunately it was at this point I must have :fallen asleep as I do not remember what happened next. : :What I do know is that I did not have any previous knowledge of that :meditation technique or anything similar - I'm not one for mediation usually :! - so you can imagine my shock as I read your description of this ancient :technique ! - have I read it subconsciously somewhere ? - who knows.... All :I know is that without any knowledge of this ,or any other meditation :method, I accidentally replicated your technique !! - albeit briefly ! : :This has had quite an effect on me - and I am still puzzled how I came to :think of the point of light - where did I get the idea from ? I honestly :don't know ! :But I will try and continue using this method as I am intrigued on how it :affected me. Wow Chris, that sounds like a cool experience. Let us kow if you have any more successes. I haven't tried the point of light technique yet but plan on doing so soon. ###### From: "chris H" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Lines: 95 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:29:41 -0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.252.45.191 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news6-win.server.ntlworld.com 976908561 62.252.45.191 (Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:29:21 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2000 19:29:21 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!212.74.64.35!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news6-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59690 lorz wrote in message news:GMp_5.3410$Kk.111170@news3.atl... > > chris H wrote in message ... > : > :Bart wrote in message > :news:9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net... > :> "Light" or "Star" Method: > :> > :> This is something I've been doing lately - with excellent results. > :> > :> I call this an "advanced" method because many beginners may not > understand > :> what they are looking for. It can also be rather tedious. I did not > :invent > :> it - it is a very old method. I just relate it here in my own words. It > :> took me a long time to understand it through the words of others - but > :once > :> I finally got the idea, then it was easy to understand at my own level. > :>snip< > : > :Hi, > : > :I thought I'd share this with you as it really freaked me out when I read > :your post ! > : > :This is my first post to the group (hi everybody) - I have been reading the > :odd post for the last few weeks - basically whenever I can get online.... > : > :The reason for my post is this :- > : > :Tuesday (12th) night we had a tremendous storm - I could not sleep with the > :noise against the window. After 3 hours of trying to sleep I decided to > try > :something - I imagined myself as a point of light - an individual point of > :light in the universe (don't ask me why) - I then defocused my gaze and > :gradually I found myself relaxing and not hearing the wind and noise which > :was keeping me awake. After a few minutes I noticed the light became > :brighter - and as soon as I realised this it literally jumped from it's > :position infront of me straight into my eyes - with a massive sensation > :hitting me. This really startled me - as I was not trying to meditate or > :have any sort of experience - I was just trying to get to sleep ! > :A few moments later I had a picture of a green forest appear infront of > me - > :a small window sized picture. I found that I kept telling myself to become > :part of the picture - and each time I did so the image grew until I found > :myself stepping through it - unfortunately it was at this point I must have > :fallen asleep as I do not remember what happened next. > : > :What I do know is that I did not have any previous knowledge of that > :meditation technique or anything similar - I'm not one for mediation > usually > :! - so you can imagine my shock as I read your description of this ancient > :technique ! - have I read it subconsciously somewhere ? - who knows.... All > :I know is that without any knowledge of this ,or any other meditation > :method, I accidentally replicated your technique !! - albeit briefly ! > : > :This has had quite an effect on me - and I am still puzzled how I came to > :think of the point of light - where did I get the idea from ? I honestly > :don't know ! > :But I will try and continue using this method as I am intrigued on how it > :affected me. > > Wow Chris, that sounds like a cool experience. Let us kow if you have any > more successes. I haven't tried the point of light technique yet but plan on > doing so soon. > > > Hi Lorz, Yes, it was certainly an experience ! - I have never felt that sort of energy before - even though I have had quite a few lucid dreams, that was new territory ! I will let you know if I have any further success ! Chris ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:38:59 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 27 Message-ID: <91jfd9$k2u$1@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net> References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3A37EF7C.CD67046@Home.com> <919l5s$t77$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <_m2_5.151$lH4.38275@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.74.a6 X-Server-Date: 17 Dec 2000 22:40:41 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59860 Trish wrote in message <_m2_5.151$lH4.38275@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net>... >>Light is the goal. >> >>Bart > > >Bart .... > >I tried this last night, but could find no light! Only darkness. : ( I kind of figured some folks might have a little trouble. >Maybe I should wait until the hynogogia sets in, and then focus on the >lightest aspect there? You can do that. I can always visually see a pinpoint of light within seconds of closing my eyes. Sometimes I see one even when my eyes are open. The funny thing about the "light" that I see... It is often black or blue in the center - then glowing white or gold. Very difficult to describe. Bart ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:44:54 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 17 Message-ID: <91jfl0$u75$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3A37EF7C.CD67046@Home.com> <919l5s$t77$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <7L4_5.3044$Kk.81344@news3.atl> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.74.a6 X-Server-Date: 17 Dec 2000 22:44:48 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net.MISMATCH!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59851 lorz wrote in message <7L4_5.3044$Kk.81344@news3.atl>... > Does it help to try it during various >times of day not just when meditating to make it easier when meditating. >Sort of like practice makes perfect? I believe so. When ever you take a break to sit down and think for a moment - just close your eyes and look for a pinpoint of light. Remember, it can be anywhere within your field of vision. You do not need to create it and you should not attempt to hold it in focus - this will happen for you. Bart From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:44:54 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 17 Message-ID: <91jfl0$u75$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3A37EF7C.CD67046@Home.com> <919l5s$t77$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <7L4_5.3044$Kk.81344@news3.atl> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.74.a6 X-Server-Date: 17 Dec 2000 22:44:48 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.mindspring.net.MISMATCH!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59851 lorz wrote in message <7L4_5.3044$Kk.81344@news3.atl>... > Does it help to try it during various >times of day not just when meditating to make it easier when meditating. >Sort of like practice makes perfect? I believe so. When ever you take a break to sit down and think for a moment - just close your eyes and look for a pinpoint of light. Remember, it can be anywhere within your field of vision. You do not need to create it and you should not attempt to hold it in focus - this will happen for you. Bart ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 17:52:55 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 25 Message-ID: <91jg7c$sr5$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3A37EF7C.CD67046@Home.com> <919l5s$t77$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <3A392E7C.C2A59111@Home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.74.a6 X-Server-Date: 17 Dec 2000 22:54:36 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59852 Tien Yen wrote in message <3A392E7C.C2A59111@Home.com>... >It reminded me of a time I was 'flying' above the Earth & >decided to go higher. The light from the stars seemed to intensify as I >rose. Quickly, the light became quite intense & I was filled with a >rush of ecstasy; then 'POP' and I blacked out :( > >The good feeling stayed with me for a few days, though :) Light is >wonderful! > >Tien Yen I often look for sources of light during my inner journeys. Looking toward the night sky is an excellent thing to do. Even if you cannot find a star that will suck you into it (for a level shift) the visuals are still quite interesting. What you have described is something you may wish to continue pursuing. It can be very exciting at times. Bart ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:12:01 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 69 Message-ID: <91jh9f$nvi$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.74.a6 X-Server-Date: 17 Dec 2000 23:12:47 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!cyclone-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59857 chris H wrote in message ... >This is my first post to the group (hi everybody) - I have been reading the >odd post for the last few weeks - basically whenever I can get online.... Welcome! I hope you enjoy your stay. > I imagined myself as a point of light - an individual point of >light in the universe (don't ask me why) Perhaps that is because that is what you are? ;-) A "spark" of the divine light... > - I then defocused my gaze and >gradually I found myself relaxing and not hearing the wind and noise which >was keeping me awake. After a few minutes I noticed the light became >brighter - and as soon as I realised this it literally jumped from it's >position infront of me straight into my eyes - with a massive sensation >hitting me. Excellent! That's the way it works! I've seen it come at me like a train light. I've also seen it like a lighthouse beam that scans around and then WAMMO! - right between the eyes! If it doesn't startle me too much, the light pulls me toward it and I find myself zooming through rainbow rings of light - similar to a tunnel. >This really startled me - as I was not trying to meditate or >have any sort of experience - I was just trying to get to sleep ! That's the way it happens sometimes. You stumble across something that works. That's what happened to me when I first started. I didn't actually consider it "meditation". >A few moments later I had a picture of a green forest appear infront of me - >a small window sized picture. I found that I kept telling myself to become >part of the picture - and each time I did so the image grew until I found >myself stepping through it - unfortunately it was at this point I must have >fallen asleep as I do not remember what happened next. That's too bad. Oh well, keep trying :-) >What I do know is that I did not have any previous knowledge of that >meditation technique or anything similar - I'm not one for mediation usually >! - so you can imagine my shock as I read your description of this ancient >technique ! - have I read it subconsciously somewhere ? - who knows.... All >I know is that without any knowledge of this ,or any other meditation >method, I accidentally replicated your technique !! - albeit briefly ! That's one of the reasons I call it "ancient". Because people have "happened" upon it many times over the centuries. >This has had quite an effect on me - and I am still puzzled how I came to >think of the point of light - where did I get the idea from ? I honestly >don't know ! >But I will try and continue using this method as I am intrigued on how it >affected me. Good luck! Bart ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:24:37 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 56 Message-ID: <91ji15$hvm$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <20001214013932.28810.00004000@ng-cl1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.74.a6 X-Server-Date: 17 Dec 2000 23:25:25 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!lmu.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.frii.net!cyclone-sjo1.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!cyclone-west.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-west.rr.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59853 MarkenAdms wrote in message <20001214013932.28810.00004000@ng-cl1.aol.com>... >>From: "Bart" Bartma12@ix.netcom.com > >>I did not invent >>it - it is a very old method. I just relate it here in my own words. > >>In this method, you close your eyes and wait for a pinpoint of light to >>appear within the vision of your eyes. > >(remainder nipped) > >Something rather similar to what you describe is depicted in one of the "Billy >Jack" series of movies. This series featured Tom Laughlin as "Billy Jack", who >is a member of a southwestern U.S. aboriginal tribe. He sees an intense blue >light ("dokish") with his eyes open during a sweat lodge ritual and goes on >something like an oobe, a sort of vision experience understood to be real >transportation of some astral self or some encounter with a different plan of >existence intimately related to the known world. Perhaps the fellow who chimes >in to alt.out-of-body with the shaman faq is knowledgable about the actual >ritual. The "Blue Light" is mentioned in a number of yoga circles. There is a "Blue Star Ashram" in Fort Lauderdale. Eckankar (regardless of how you may feel about the group) mentioned it quite a bit. In some groups it is considered the "Inner Master" or the doorway to the Divine. I collect blue glass for this reason... Also because I like it :-) >The movie series is a must see on quite different grounds. Unless one paid >close attention during the 60s and 70s one might not have noticed that >counterculture types can go from guerilla warfare acts and demands that they >all bomb a nearby dam to (incredibly) singing that "All they are saying is give >peace a chance" in the space of a few minutes. You had to be alert and have >your crap detector fully functioning during the 60-70s counterculture to really >grasp things like this. So the movies are a great must see on another ground. I saw at least two. I understand what you are saying. Bart ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2000 18:46:11 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 46 Message-ID: <91jj9h$6uf$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3A37EF7C.CD67046@Home.com> <919l5s$t77$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <3A392E7C.C2A59111@Home.com> <91jg7c$sr5$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <3A3D46FD.B345014@Home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.74.a6 X-Server-Date: 17 Dec 2000 23:46:57 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!cyclone2.usenetserver.com.MISMATCH!news-out.usenetserver.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59855 Tien Yen wrote in message <3A3D46FD.B345014@Home.com>... >I've had a few times where I just sat under an amazingly >beautiful, lit-up sky, feeling perfectly happy. Was this during an inner experience? When I do this during the trip, the sky is often quite animated with shooting stars, colors, sparkling rain... You? >Tried the technique Friday night - no light but I did have an LD for a >few minutes and then woke up to the whining/ringing in my head. I was going to mention this. This technique can lead to LD's even if you do not make a conscious shift. I believe it is because "light" is associated with consciousness and lucidity. So even if you don't "see" light during the effort, just the act of looking for it may help. >Woke up >around 4am today & tried again: this time I did see some small bursts of >light. They had a definite blue tinge to them; some were small spheres, >some kinda like solar flares. I didn't concentrate on them too hard, >just watched. Good - don't concentrate on them. Just recognize their existance. >They were also accompanied by quite a good feeling. That may or may not just be a personal sense of accomplishment :-) On the other hand, many years ago, I did find myself floating in space before a blue star. It was white in the center and faded into blue as its light extended into space. It was beautiful. I've described it in this group before. It seemed like it was alive and that it knew everything about me - but still loved and forgave me anyway... This experience has stuck with me ever since. Unfortunately... it never actually "changed" me :-) I'm still a jerk at times. >Definitely something to pursue. Yes... Bart ###### From: "dorothy" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3A37EF7C.CD67046@Home.com> <919l5s$t77$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <3A392E7C.C2A59111@Home.com> <91jg7c$sr5$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <3A3D46FD.B345014@Home.com> <91jj9h$6uf$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <3A3D94E2.E49B064C@Home.com> Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 00:18:00 -0800 Lines: 89 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 NNTP-Posting-Host: sanduser2035.bossig.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: sanduser2035.bossig.com Message-ID: <3a3db651@news-out.newsnerds.com> X-Trace: 18 Dec 2000 01:01:37 -0600, sanduser2035.bossig.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@newsnerds.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.online.no!nextra.com!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!news-reader.ntrnet.net!uunet!ash.uu.net!dfw.uu.net!news-out.newsnerds.com!sanduser2035.bossig.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59843 Tien Yen wrote in message news:3A3D94E2.E49B064C@Home.com... > Bart wrote: > > > > Tien Yen wrote in message <3A3D46FD.B345014@Home.com>... > > > > >I've had a few times where I just sat under an amazingly > > >beautiful, lit-up sky, feeling perfectly happy. > > > > Was this during an inner experience? When I do this during the trip, the > > sky is often quite animated with shooting stars, colors, sparkling rain... > > You? > > Sounds familiar. I might ascribe it to an LD, but it *felt* different. > I can relate to the shooting stars, and once had an incredibly clear & > realistic vision where there was a shining silver-coloured 'rain' > falling all about. Also what seemed to be Northern Lights or the > opening sequence to Star Trek Voyagers (don't know what else to compare > it to :) > > > > >Tried the technique Friday night - no light but I did have an LD for a > > >few minutes and then woke up to the whining/ringing in my head. > > > > I was going to mention this. This technique can lead to LD's even if you do > > not make a conscious shift. I believe it is because "light" is associated > > with consciousness and lucidity. So even if you don't "see" light during > > the effort, just the act of looking for it may help. > > > > >Woke up > > >around 4am today & tried again: this time I did see some small bursts of > > >light. They had a definite blue tinge to them; some were small spheres, > > >some kinda like solar flares. I didn't concentrate on them too hard, > > >just watched. > > > > Good - don't concentrate on them. Just recognize their existance. > > > > >They were also accompanied by quite a good feeling. > > > > That may or may not just be a personal sense of accomplishment :-) > > Don't think so. I've been really happy in the past to have accomplished > LDs, but the feeling is different. Total peace of mind; the feeling of > 'accomplishment' is unrelated. I'm not sure how to explain it further. > > > On the > > other hand, many years ago, I did find myself floating in space before a > > blue star. It was white in the center and faded into blue as its light > > extended into space. It was beautiful. I've described it in this group > > before. It seemed like it was alive and that it knew everything about me - > > but still loved and forgave me anyway... This experience has stuck with me > > ever since. Unfortunately... it never actually "changed" me :-) I'm still > > a jerk at times. > > > > >Definitely something to pursue. > > > > Yes... > > > > Bart > > I remember the post. Real change takes either time or a tremendous > 'cathartic' experience. I can relate to the 'jerk' syndrome. Think > about it, though: some people never even realize that they're jerks :) > > Good luck to us both, > Tien Yen Hi guys, Heh, funny... I tried the "light" meditation last night too. It was successful insofar as I got to the "vibes" stage, but couldn't kick out from there (my back was aching from shoveling snow, so I guess I was distracted a bit). Anyway, thanks for posting that one Bart; I've got a nice little file of meditations going now. I'm looking forward to getting out amongst the stars and the northern lights and the rain.... ###### From: "Bart" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2000 10:02:31 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 22 Message-ID: <91l91e$u44$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <3A37EF7C.CD67046@Home.com> <919l5s$t77$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <3A392E7C.C2A59111@Home.com> <91jg7c$sr5$1@slb0.atl.mindspring.net> <3A3D46FD.B345014@Home.com> <91jj9h$6uf$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> <3A3D94E2.E49B064C@Home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.73.02 X-Server-Date: 18 Dec 2000 15:04:14 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.online.no!nextra.com!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59849 Tien Yen wrote in message <3A3D94E2.E49B064C@Home.com>... >once had an incredibly clear & >realistic vision where there was a shining silver-coloured 'rain' >falling all about. I see this falling from stars at times. Also, sometimes when I'm flying around in clouds, the cloud material seems like silver - metalic flakes. >Also what seemed to be Northern Lights or the >opening sequence to Star Trek Voyagers (don't know what else to compare >it to :) Funny you should mention Star Trek. There are a number of visuals in those shows that remind me of things I experience during a trip - like entering a worm hole. Bart ###### From: "chris H" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <9176ca$m1b$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net> <91jh9f$nvi$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net> Subject: Re: My new (ancient) technique Lines: 7 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:42:19 -0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.252.44.205 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ntlworld.com X-Trace: news2-win.server.ntlworld.com 977341335 62.252.44.205 (Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:42:15 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2000 19:42:15 GMT Organization: ntlworld News Service Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.germany.net!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!btnet-peer!btnet!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news5-gui.server.ntli.net!ntli.net!news2-win.server.ntlworld.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:59908 I will keep trying this technique - and thanks again Bart for posting it ! If I have any more success I will let you know. Chris