From: George Bajszar Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Hypnotic staring at your own eyes through a mirror Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 05:59:51 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 16 Message-ID: <8lluol$ue7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.225.106.73 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Jul 26 05:59:51 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x56.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.225.106.73 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDgyurmabugyi Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:48324 First relax and freeze all your facial muscles, and start staring deep into your own eyes in a mirror. I start to feel a weird hypnotic feeling after 10 seconds as I imagine that I am out of body and looking at myself from outside. I feel as if all my facial muscles turn into rock and my eyes on their own open very wide as I focus. I see my eyes through the mirror, but everything in the background begins to darken, then vibrate. Try it and tell me if OBE can be achieved this way. I had a feeling it could, withing maybe as little as 30 seconds. I chickened out when I started feeling weird vibrations. How far does OBE take place usually after vibrations are felt and seen? Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: Haunter@castles.com (Haunter) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Hypnotic staring at your own eyes through a mirror Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 08:24:33 GMT Organization: A.S.I./Psi -App/WCS Lines: 35 Message-ID: <39b79fac.312239226@cnews.newsguy.com> References: <8lluol$ue7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-405.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:48360 On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 05:59:51 GMT, George Bajszar wrote: >First relax and freeze all your facial muscles, and start staring deep >into your own eyes in a mirror. I start to feel a weird hypnotic >feeling after 10 seconds as I imagine that I am out of body and looking >at myself from outside. I feel as if all my facial muscles turn into >rock and my eyes on their own open very wide as I focus. I see my eyes >through the mirror, but everything in the background begins to darken, >then vibrate. > >Try it and tell me if OBE can be achieved this way. I had a feeling it >could, withing maybe as little as 30 seconds. I chickened out when I >started feeling weird vibrations. How far does OBE take place usually >after vibrations are felt and seen? > > >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >Before you buy. I used to use mirrors alot, trying to stimulate an altered state. In my experience, you have to be in an eyes-closed, relaxed physical position to reach OBE. You can only reach partial relaxation with an eyes-open, staring posture. It's fun to watch how your perceptions change in this manner, but you'll have to close your eyes to get to a deeper OBE state of consciousness, imo. -- Haunter: Cognitive Dissident White Crow Society:Knowledge is the Antidote for Fear http://www.whitecrowsociety.com New Double CD of casefiles, now available Sign up now for 3 new WCS on-line classes in Intro., Medical and In-field Parapsychology ###### Reply-To: "J" From: "J" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8lluol$ue7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39b79fac.312239226@cnews.newsguy.com> Subject: Re: Hypnotic staring at your own eyes through a mirror Lines: 62 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 11:43:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 144.132.216.100 X-Complaints-To: news@bigpond.net.au X-Trace: news-server.bigpond.net.au 964611812 144.132.216.100 (Wed, 26 Jul 2000 21:43:32 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 21:43:32 EST Organization: BigPond Internet Services (http://www.bigpond.net.au) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!news-server.bigpond.net.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:48379 I have been trawling the net to find mention of mind altering states using mirrors and have been unable to locate very much information. I have had many strange experiences staring deeply into my own eyes in a mirror. As mentioned by someone else in another thread, I also start to see a wide variety of different faces, sometimes similar in appearance to myself and other times very different. On the different occasions that I have experienced this, I tend to see a lot of the same faces re-appearing. The funny thing I have noticed is that my eyes always seem to remain the same. Don't really know what this all means but it is extremely fascinating. I have experienced similar sensations to those you mentioned and sometimes feel that I am in the mirror looking out at my own image. This certainly does have an OBE feeling to it although it is nowhere near as powerful a feeling as one that I had whilst in a lying position on my bed. During this, I had my eyes open and experienced a rising and separation from my body. It didn't last very long but was a totally overwhelming experience. I have been *trying* to duplicate this experience since...and this is probably why I have not succeeded! J Haunter wrote in message news:39b79fac.312239226@cnews.newsguy.com... > On Wed, 26 Jul 2000 05:59:51 GMT, George Bajszar > wrote: > > >First relax and freeze all your facial muscles, and start staring deep > >into your own eyes in a mirror. I start to feel a weird hypnotic > >feeling after 10 seconds as I imagine that I am out of body and looking > >at myself from outside. I feel as if all my facial muscles turn into > >rock and my eyes on their own open very wide as I focus. I see my eyes > >through the mirror, but everything in the background begins to darken, > >then vibrate. > > > >Try it and tell me if OBE can be achieved this way. I had a feeling it > >could, withing maybe as little as 30 seconds. I chickened out when I > >started feeling weird vibrations. How far does OBE take place usually > >after vibrations are felt and seen? > > > > > >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > >Before you buy. > > I used to use mirrors alot, trying to stimulate an altered state. In > my experience, you have to be in an eyes-closed, relaxed physical > position to reach OBE. You can only reach partial relaxation with an > eyes-open, staring posture. It's fun to watch how your perceptions > change in this manner, but you'll have to close your eyes to get to a > deeper OBE state of consciousness, imo. > > -- > > Haunter: Cognitive Dissident > White Crow Society:Knowledge is the Antidote for Fear > http://www.whitecrowsociety.com > New Double CD of casefiles, now available > Sign up now for 3 new WCS on-line classes > in Intro., Medical and In-field Parapsychology ###### From: George Bajszar Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Hypnotic staring at your own eyes through a mirror Date: Wed, 26 Jul 2000 20:30:02 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 81 Message-ID: <8lnho3$5cg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <8lluol$ue7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39b79fac.312239226@cnews.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.225.106.108 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Jul 26 20:30:02 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x59.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.225.106.108 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDgyurmabugyi Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:48397 In article , "J" wrote: > I have been trawling the net to find mention of mind altering states using > mirrors and have been unable to locate very much information. I have had > many strange experiences staring deeply into my own eyes in a mirror. As > mentioned by someone else in another thread, I also start to see a wide > variety of different faces, sometimes similar in appearance to myself and > other times very different. > > On the different occasions that I have experienced this, I tend to see a lot > of the same faces re-appearing. The funny thing I have noticed is that my > eyes always seem to remain the same. Don't really know what this all means > but it is extremely fascinating. > > I have experienced similar sensations to those you mentioned and sometimes > feel that I am in the mirror looking out at my own image. This certainly > does have an OBE feeling to it although it is nowhere near as powerful a > feeling as one that I had whilst in a lying position on my bed. During this, > I had my eyes open and experienced a rising and separation from my body. It > didn't last very long but was a totally overwhelming experience. I have been > *trying* to duplicate this experience since...and this is probably why I > have not succeeded! > Eyes seem to have very hypnotic effects on the brain. In cartoons it seems to be a very popular image of one hypnotizing another and saying with widely opened eyes: Loooook intoooo my iiiiiiiys! I kind of suspected that in such a hypnotic setup OBE could be practiced, because any form of OBE meditation is achieved by a state of remaining focused on something. The image of eyes seem to provide a natural hypnotizing effect because it keeps the attention and focus of the individual very easily for some reason. Focusing very long on something seems to disconnect reality after a while. When a fully hypnotic disconnected stage is achieved through a mirror, one can remain mentally aware and can try to step out of the disconnected body. I'd be curious if experts trying this could succeed with ease, as focusing becomes automatic and made much easier when staring at eyes, especially if they are wide open. My guess is that animalistic nature comes into play when seeing wide open eyes. That is where hypnotic effects come in play. If one looks away in a danger situation from his opponents eyes, he becomes vaulnarable by not seeing the enemy's next move. It might also be a sign of strength. Showing that one is not in fear of the other and remains dominant by resisting the "look". Meanwhile, the brain goes into a hypnotic battlezone stage, disconnects the body and all its logical functionings, preparring it for possible pain approaching due to possible combat. So maybe men have advantage over women due to their confronting nature to fall into a hypnotic state this way. Women by nature tend to escape confrontation and avoid eyes easily. Another natural event that involves staring, is by couples in love. That sort of hypnoticism sparks increased release of ferramon hormones which leads to sexual tension. In any way, eye staring disconnects a person from reality into a world of pure instincts. Can that hypnotic state be used for easier achievement of OBE? Perhaps an expert can tell me. George Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: "Fazz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Hypnotic staring at your own eyes through a mirror Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 00:03:49 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 19 Message-ID: <8lqf66$dn7$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <8lluol$ue7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39b79fac.312239226@cnews.newsguy.com> <8lnho3$5cg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-82.bregor.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk 964739078 14055 62.136.142.210 (27 Jul 2000 23:04:38 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jul 2000 23:04:38 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:48459 > > In any way, eye staring disconnects a person from reality into a world > of pure instincts. Can that hypnotic state be used for easier > achievement of OBE? Perhaps an expert can tell me. Im no expert but have found that the trick to achieving the level of trance required for OBE is to keep the closed eyes perfectly still. This is not attempted directly, more through a passive intention. If you can learn to stare with your eyes shut you can become relaxed really quickly, although you have to be careful not to tense up the body or the eyes. The way i manage to stare with my eyes shut is by ignoring all visual experiences. This includes both physical vision, namely ignoring the darkness under the closed eyelids and also all mental images and dream images that arise later on. The breathing is of course relaxed and rhythmic. Si ###### From: George Bajszar Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Hypnotic staring at your own eyes through a mirror Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:48:28 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 44 Message-ID: <8lsh19$r0k$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <8lluol$ue7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39b79fac.312239226@cnews.newsguy.com> <8lnho3$5cg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8lqf66$dn7$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.225.120.164 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Jul 28 17:48:28 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x62.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 63.225.120.164 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDgyurmabugyi Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:48449 In article <8lqf66$dn7$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Fazz" wrote: > > > > > In any way, eye staring disconnects a person from reality into a world > > of pure instincts. Can that hypnotic state be used for easier > > achievement of OBE? Perhaps an expert can tell me. > > Im no expert but have found that the trick to achieving the level of trance > required for OBE is to keep the closed eyes perfectly still. This is not > attempted directly, more through a passive intention. If you can learn to > stare with your eyes shut you can become relaxed really quickly, although > you have to be careful not to tense up the body or the eyes. The way i > manage to stare with my eyes shut is by ignoring all visual experiences. > This includes both physical vision, namely ignoring the darkness under the > closed eyelids and also all mental images and dream images that arise later > on. The breathing is of course relaxed and rhythmic. > > Si > > I think the key is to focus on something. Many people have reported falling into inintentional OBE when staring deeply at something, such as at a bottle in their hands. Normally when your eyes are open you get distracted in your focus by images coming in from the external world. I am guessing the idea is to clean out the short term memory from incoming information and perhaps that is when a trance state steps in. George Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: "Mark Baron" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Hypnotic staring at your own eyes through a mirror Date: Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:12:35 -0500 Organization: Mayo Foundation Lines: 23 Message-ID: <8ltaqh$an5$1@tribune.mayo.edu> References: <8lluol$ue7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39b79fac.312239226@cnews.newsguy.com> <8lnho3$5cg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8lqf66$dn7$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8lsh19$r0k$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3982c685.10169884@news.dingoblue.net.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: rmtaccess58.mayo.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: tribune.mayo.edu 964832913 10981 172.22.175.68 (29 Jul 2000 01:08:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@mayo.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Jul 2000 01:08:33 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!msc1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hardy.tc.umn.edu!mayonews.mayo.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:48492 ---------- In article <3982c685.10169884@news.dingoblue.net.au>, evnshli@nevermind.net (eve nshali) wrote: > Personally, I find it easier to oobe while awake with such > stimulation. Usually it just happens. In sleep, I have to struggle > thru the SP and frankly can't be bothered these days. I also don't > care whether they're "real" or not but am open to all explanations. I > think a combination of scientific studies and personal anecdotes is a > good thing but only time will give us the answers about spirits and > souls leaving the body literally. I prefer a magical universe as it's > more interesting and fun to play in the concepts. I like to read an > idea then let my imagination take me on a ride. Sometimes this > results in obes, which are wondrous to experience, better than a > movie, even if just as "made-up". I had an amazing one after reading > about wormholes, can't remember the details but it included some wild > sensations of travelling thru the wormholes and dancing on > super-strings. The one where I was surfing on solar flares was > ultra-cool fun too! > Oh this is too on topic. Aren't you supposed to be a TROLL? ;-) ###### From: evnshli@nevermind.net (eve nshali) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Hypnotic staring at your own eyes through a mirror Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 12:07:59 GMT Message-ID: <3982c685.10169884@news.dingoblue.net.au> References: <8lluol$ue7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39b79fac.312239226@cnews.newsguy.com> <8lnho3$5cg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8lqf66$dn7$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8lsh19$r0k$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 62 NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.142.152.27 X-Trace: 964829283 news01.syd.optusnet.com.au 11146 198.142.152.27 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!newshub1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news1.mpx.com.au.MISMATCH!news01.syd.optusnet.com.au!nnrp01.syd.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:48506 On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 17:48:28 GMT, George Bajszar wrote: >In article <8lqf66$dn7$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>, > "Fazz" wrote: >> >> > >> > In any way, eye staring disconnects a person from reality into a >world >> > of pure instincts. Can that hypnotic state be used for easier >> > achievement of OBE? Perhaps an expert can tell me. >> >> Im no expert but have found that the trick to achieving the level of >trance >> required for OBE is to keep the closed eyes perfectly still. This is >not >> attempted directly, more through a passive intention. If you can >learn to >> stare with your eyes shut you can become relaxed really quickly, >although >> you have to be careful not to tense up the body or the eyes. The way >i >> manage to stare with my eyes shut is by ignoring all visual >experiences. >> This includes both physical vision, namely ignoring the darkness >under the >> closed eyelids and also all mental images and dream images that arise >later >> on. The breathing is of course relaxed and rhythmic. >> >> Si > >I think the key is to focus on something. Many people have reported >falling into inintentional OBE when staring deeply at something, such >as at a bottle in their hands. Normally when your eyes are open you get >distracted in your focus by images coming in from the external world. > Personally, I find it easier to oobe while awake with such stimulation. Usually it just happens. In sleep, I have to struggle thru the SP and frankly can't be bothered these days. I also don't care whether they're "real" or not but am open to all explanations. I think a combination of scientific studies and personal anecdotes is a good thing but only time will give us the answers about spirits and souls leaving the body literally. I prefer a magical universe as it's more interesting and fun to play in the concepts. I like to read an idea then let my imagination take me on a ride. Sometimes this results in obes, which are wondrous to experience, better than a movie, even if just as "made-up". I had an amazing one after reading about wormholes, can't remember the details but it included some wild sensations of travelling thru the wormholes and dancing on super-strings. The one where I was surfing on solar flares was ultra-cool fun too! >I am guessing the idea is to clean out the short term memory from >incoming information and perhaps that is when a trance state steps in. > >George > > >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >Before you buy. ###### From: evnshli@nevermind.net (eve nshali) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Hypnotic staring at your own eyes through a mirror Date: Sat, 29 Jul 2000 13:32:07 GMT Message-ID: <3982d90d.14914073@news.dingoblue.net.au> References: <8lluol$ue7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39b79fac.312239226@cnews.newsguy.com> <8lnho3$5cg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8lqf66$dn7$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8lsh19$r0k$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3982c685.10169884@news.dingoblue.net.au> <8ltaqh$an5$1@tribune.mayo.edu> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 44 NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.142.152.194 X-Trace: 964834331 news01.syd.optusnet.com.au 11146 198.142.152.194 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gblx.net!news-out.nibble.net!news-in.nibble.net!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news1.mpx.com.au.MISMATCH!news01.syd.optusnet.com.au!nnrp01.syd.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:48508 On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:12:35 -0500, "Mark Baron" wrote: >---------- >In article <3982c685.10169884@news.dingoblue.net.au>, evnshli@nevermind.net >(eve nshali) wrote: > > >> Personally, I find it easier to oobe while awake with such >> stimulation. Usually it just happens. In sleep, I have to struggle >> thru the SP and frankly can't be bothered these days. I also don't >> care whether they're "real" or not but am open to all explanations. I >> think a combination of scientific studies and personal anecdotes is a >> good thing but only time will give us the answers about spirits and >> souls leaving the body literally. I prefer a magical universe as it's >> more interesting and fun to play in the concepts. I like to read an >> idea then let my imagination take me on a ride. Sometimes this >> results in obes, which are wondrous to experience, better than a >> movie, even if just as "made-up". I had an amazing one after reading >> about wormholes, can't remember the details but it included some wild >> sensations of travelling thru the wormholes and dancing on >> super-strings. The one where I was surfing on solar flares was >> ultra-cool fun too! >> > >Oh this is too on topic. Aren't you supposed to be a TROLL? ;-) According to some. The truth is I got online 6 mths ago, went to groups I was interested in and got side tracked by some very childish behaviour. As I'm a bit feisty, I got involved with arguing with some people including tonee and pz (first alt.astrology, then here). Now I know what they're like, I like to have a go at them sometimes - you know - having an off enough day to get annoyed by their antics to respond. Actually, I don't like doing it because it "feeds" them...(hey, don't "feed" the trolls). They (and their ilk) love the chance to attack "idjits" like me but I'm not here for self-aggrandizement, rather it is to learn from other's experiences and their perceptions of those experiences in relation to their beliefs. I'm starting to feel more like joining in but don't have a lot of time so it just pops out sometimes. I have had a *lot* of "anomalous" experiences. My interest in this group and classic out of body stuff is a subplot of my interest in the mind and it's vagaries. As to piztone I wonder if it's all contrived or they're just natural trolls. ###### From: evnshli@nevermind.net (eve nshali) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Hypnotic staring at your own eyes through a mirror Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 01:48:17 GMT Message-ID: <3984d9ce.17876547@news.dingoblue.net.au> References: <8lluol$ue7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39b79fac.312239226@cnews.newsguy.com> <8lnho3$5cg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8lqf66$dn7$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8lsh19$r0k$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3982c685.10169884@news.dingoblue.net.au> <8ltaqh$an5$1@tribune.mayo.edu> <3982d90d.14914073@news.dingoblue.net.au> <1eejsb2.g500xg11ndxiN%spnak@petitmorte.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 57 NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.142.152.67 X-Trace: 965008110 news01.syd.optusnet.com.au 11143 198.142.152.67 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!newshub1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news1.mpx.com.au.MISMATCH!news01.syd.optusnet.com.au!nnrp01.syd.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:48643 On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 20:50:06 -0400, spnak@petitmorte.net (jfred) wrote: >eve nshali wrote: > >> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:12:35 -0500, "Mark Baron" >> wrote: >> >> >---------- >> >In article <3982c685.10169884@news.dingoblue.net.au>, >> >evnshli@nevermind.net (eve nshali) wrote: >> > >> > snip of some stuff about oobes. >> > >> >Oh this is too on topic. Aren't you supposed to be a TROLL? ;-) > >Anyone who bought that was just slurping up Tony turds. Go ahead and ask >Tony what prompted this label other than the fact that Eve criticized >Tony -- and see if you get a response. Or just look at Eve's posting >history. > Yikes, don't get 'em to do that!!! I was somewhat naive of the nature of usenet when I started. Ah, wtf... >> According to some. The truth is I got online 6 mths ago, went to >> groups I was interested in and got side tracked by some very childish >> behaviour. As I'm a bit feisty, I got involved with arguing with some >> people including tonee and pz (first alt.astrology, then here). Now I >> know what they're like, I like to have a go at them sometimes - you >> know - having an off enough day to get annoyed by their antics to >> respond. Actually, I don't like doing it because it "feeds" >> them...(hey, don't "feed" the trolls). They (and their ilk) love the >> chance to attack "idjits" like me but I'm not here for >> self-aggrandizement, rather it is to learn from other's experiences >> and their perceptions of those experiences in relation to their >> beliefs. I'm starting to feel more like joining in but don't have a >> lot of time so it just pops out sometimes. I have had a *lot* of >> "anomalous" experiences. My interest in this group and classic out of >> body stuff is a subplot of my interest in the mind and it's vagaries. >> As to piztone I wonder if it's all contrived or they're just natural >> trolls. > >If you look at Tony's posting history, you'll see he's worked on his >technique for a long time. PZ is just an asshole -- so trolling comes to >him quite naturally. > Tony's tactics are becoming toooo obvious to not see that he thinks it's an exquisite art-form and one that he reigns supreme in. As to pz, well it takes all types... When you look at their styles it really does seem to be the way you said it. Pz's just that type that would converse/interact in the same way he trolls. >-- >jfred >Habent Abdenda Omnes Praeter Me ac Simiam Meam ###### Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Hypnotic staring at your own eyes through a mirror From: spnak@petitmorte.net (jfred) Message-ID: <1eeluee.m8p3mfur27r4N%spnak@petitmorte.net> References: <8lluol$ue7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39b79fac.312239226@cnews.newsguy.com> <8lnho3$5cg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8lqf66$dn7$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8lsh19$r0k$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3982c685.10169884@news.dingoblue.net.au> <8ltaqh$an5$1@tribune.mayo.edu> <3982d90d.14914073@news.dingoblue.net.au> <1eejsb2.g500xg11ndxiN%spnak@petitmorte.net> <3984d9ce.17876547@news.dingoblue.net.au> Organization: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=95?= Think Different User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4.5 Lines: 69 Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:59:17 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.215.8.3 X-Trace: news4.atl 965012548 209.215.8.3 (Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:02:28 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 30 Jul 2000 23:02:28 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!outgoing.news.rcn.net.MISMATCH!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed.atl!news4.atl.POSTED!spnak Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:48647 eve nshali wrote: > On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 20:50:06 -0400, spnak@petitmorte.net (jfred) > wrote: > > >eve nshali wrote: > > > >> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:12:35 -0500, "Mark Baron" > >> wrote: > >> > >> >---------- > >> >In article <3982c685.10169884@news.dingoblue.net.au>, > >> >evnshli@nevermind.net (eve nshali) wrote: > >> > > >> > > snip of some stuff about oobes. No! Don't do that! Now we're off-topic! ;-) > >> > > >> >Oh this is too on topic. Aren't you supposed to be a TROLL? ;-) > > > >Anyone who bought that was just slurping up Tony turds. Go ahead and ask > >Tony what prompted this label other than the fact that Eve criticized > >Tony -- and see if you get a response. Or just look at Eve's posting > >history. > > > Yikes, don't get 'em to do that!!! I was somewhat naive of the nature > of usenet when I started. Ah, wtf... It's not THAT bad! You hold your own! Besides, it shows what a paranoid coward Tony is for even mentioning the "t" word in reference to you. Of course, if you look at what Tony DOES instead of what he SAYS, then you ARE a troll -- because you criticize Tony. > >> According to some. The truth is I got online 6 mths ago, went to > >> groups I was interested in and got side tracked by some very childish > >> behaviour. As I'm a bit feisty, I got involved with arguing with some > >> people including tonee and pz (first alt.astrology, then here). Now I > >> know what they're like, I like to have a go at them sometimes - you > >> know - having an off enough day to get annoyed by their antics to > >> respond. Actually, I don't like doing it because it "feeds" > >> them...(hey, don't "feed" the trolls). They (and their ilk) love the > >> chance to attack "idjits" like me but I'm not here for > >> self-aggrandizement, rather it is to learn from other's experiences and > >> their perceptions of those experiences in relation to their beliefs. > >> I'm starting to feel more like joining in but don't have a lot of time > >> so it just pops out sometimes. I have had a *lot* of "anomalous" > >> experiences. My interest in this group and classic out of body stuff > >> is a subplot of my interest in the mind and it's vagaries. As to > >> piztone I wonder if it's all contrived or they're just natural trolls. > > > >If you look at Tony's posting history, you'll see he's worked on his > >technique for a long time. PZ is just an asshole -- so trolling comes to > >him quite naturally. > > > Tony's tactics are becoming toooo obvious to not see that he thinks > it's an exquisite art-form and one that he reigns supreme in. As to > pz, well it takes all types... When you look at their styles it > really does seem to be the way you said it. Pz's just that type that > would converse/interact in the same way he trolls. He's a perma-troll? -- jfred Habent Abdenda Omnes Praeter Me ac Simiam Meam ###### From: evnshli@nevermind.net (eve nshali) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Hypnotic staring at your own eyes through a mirror Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 07:11:06 GMT Message-ID: <3985257b.2176417@news.dingoblue.net.au> References: <8lluol$ue7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39b79fac.312239226@cnews.newsguy.com> <8lnho3$5cg$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8lqf66$dn7$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8lsh19$r0k$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3982c685.10169884@news.dingoblue.net.au> <8ltaqh$an5$1@tribune.mayo.edu> <3982d90d.14914073@news.dingoblue.net.au> <1eejsb2.g500xg11ndxiN%spnak@petitmorte.net> <3984d9ce.17876547@news.dingoblue.net.au> <1eeluee.m8p3mfur27r4N%spnak@petitmorte.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 79 NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.142.152.153 X-Trace: 965027479 news01.syd.optusnet.com.au 11140 198.142.152.153 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.ozemail.com.au!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news1.mpx.com.au.MISMATCH!news01.syd.optusnet.com.au!nnrp01.syd.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:48641 On Sun, 30 Jul 2000 22:59:17 -0400, spnak@petitmorte.net (jfred) wrote: >eve nshali wrote: > >> On Sat, 29 Jul 2000 20:50:06 -0400, spnak@petitmorte.net (jfred) >> wrote: >> >> >eve nshali wrote: >> > >> >> On Fri, 28 Jul 2000 20:12:35 -0500, "Mark Baron" >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> >---------- >> >> >In article <3982c685.10169884@news.dingoblue.net.au>, >> >> >evnshli@nevermind.net (eve nshali) wrote: >> >> > >> >> > >> snip of some stuff about oobes. > >No! Don't do that! Now we're off-topic! ;-) > Ooops!!! Sorry, folks. >> >> > >> >> >Oh this is too on topic. Aren't you supposed to be a TROLL? ;-) >> > >> >Anyone who bought that was just slurping up Tony turds. Go ahead and ask >> >Tony what prompted this label other than the fact that Eve criticized >> >Tony -- and see if you get a response. Or just look at Eve's posting >> >history. >> > >> Yikes, don't get 'em to do that!!! I was somewhat naive of the nature >> of usenet when I started. Ah, wtf... > >It's not THAT bad! You hold your own! > >Besides, it shows what a paranoid coward Tony is for even mentioning the >"t" word in reference to you. Of course, if you look at what Tony DOES >instead of what he SAYS, then you ARE a troll -- because you criticize >Tony. > Ok, fair enough. I troll tony cuz that's all you can be doing if you're not agreeing with him. >> >> According to some. The truth is I got online 6 mths ago, went to >> >> groups I was interested in and got side tracked by some very childish >> >> behaviour. As I'm a bit feisty, I got involved with arguing with some >> >> people including tonee and pz (first alt.astrology, then here). Now I >> >> know what they're like, I like to have a go at them sometimes - you >> >> know - having an off enough day to get annoyed by their antics to >> >> respond. Actually, I don't like doing it because it "feeds" >> >> them...(hey, don't "feed" the trolls). They (and their ilk) love the >> >> chance to attack "idjits" like me but I'm not here for >> >> self-aggrandizement, rather it is to learn from other's experiences and >> >> their perceptions of those experiences in relation to their beliefs. >> >> I'm starting to feel more like joining in but don't have a lot of time >> >> so it just pops out sometimes. I have had a *lot* of "anomalous" >> >> experiences. My interest in this group and classic out of body stuff >> >> is a subplot of my interest in the mind and it's vagaries. As to >> >> piztone I wonder if it's all contrived or they're just natural trolls. >> > >> >If you look at Tony's posting history, you'll see he's worked on his >> >technique for a long time. PZ is just an asshole -- so trolling comes to >> >him quite naturally. >> > >> Tony's tactics are becoming toooo obvious to not see that he thinks >> it's an exquisite art-form and one that he reigns supreme in. As to >> pz, well it takes all types... When you look at their styles it >> really does seem to be the way you said it. Pz's just that type that >> would converse/interact in the same way he trolls. > >He's a perma-troll? Yeah and they dug him out of the perma-frost. > >-- >jfred >Habent Abdenda Omnes Praeter Me ac Simiam Meam ###### From: hurbert-lucy@webtv.net (Hurbert Lucy) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Hypnotic staring at your own eyes through a mirror Date: Mon, 31 Jul 2000 19:03:37 -0700 (MST) Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 4 Message-ID: <17945-39862FF9-51@storefull-174.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: <8lsh19$r0k$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRv70sD8BHXd87tQcW0Lk908MKYPwIUFQpPY7I9/DcrlX+Ge+CNWInRA5s= Content-Disposition: Inline Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gblx.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed.concentric.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:48664 I read where an Ascended Master, Baba Ji taught a type meditation where you focus on your own vibrations. A kind of ringing. Do you know what I'm talking about? ###### From: George Bajszar Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Hypnotic staring at your own eyes through a mirror Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2000 05:35:13 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 59 Message-ID: <8m5nih$5pb$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <8lsh19$r0k$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <17945-39862FF9-51@storefull-174.iap.bryant.webtv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.181.68.195 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Aug 01 05:35:13 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows 98) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x69.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 209.181.68.195 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDgyurmabugyi Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:48673 In article <17945-39862FF9-51@storefull-174.iap.bryant.webtv.net>, hurbert-lucy@webtv.net (Hurbert Lucy) wrote: > I read where an Ascended Master, Baba Ji taught a type meditation where > you focus on your own vibrations. A kind of ringing. Do you know what > I'm talking about? > That is a good example for what I am speculating about. Focusing on a monotonic thing such as imagining an unstruck bell sound. You clean out your short term memory and fill it up with only one information. Normally one thinks and the thoughts are variations. Variations give constant stimuli to the brain, so the brain remains active. You clean out the stimulating thoughts and fill up your short term memory with some monotonic information. Just one type of monotonic information is enough to keep a person kind of awake and focused. A person would fall to sleep if the short term memory empties completely, then no stimulations occurs for the brain. I think the short term memory keeps recording the last one minute of incoming information. Information can come from sensory inputs such as hearing, seeing or by thinking. One thought sparks the next thought or reaction, and that keeps on going in circles. The brain keeps on scanning the short term memory and keeps on reacting to its ever changing contents. Once the brain goes into a hypnotic state from having the same thing recorded over and over again, the body disconnects as no signals from the brain are sending pulses to body parts. What remains is the sort of awake mind without the connection to the body. I am attempting to compare the meditative OBE state to a near death OBE state. The meditated state is kind of similar to what a dying person experiences, where the person manages to remain concious without the physical ability of being able to maintain connecting to the physical body. The difference is that during NDE the mind remains fully awake and works exactly as when a person is awake, not needing to empty the short term memory. That is why in ND experiences dreamlike distortions are not as common. In the typical first stage of NDE, people report no astral sceneries that is so common in meditated OBEs but remain focused on the reality, which is typically observed as seeing the outside world from floating above their bodies, often seeing a silver cord connecting them to their bodies. I don't want to go too much off topic, but I think the short term memory is responsible for the hypnotic state that allows achieving OBEs. You can focus on a specific sound as you said, or it can be a long deep stare at your own eyes as I said, whatever helps better as long as the key remains to focus on one monotonic thing to clear the mind of stimuli. George Bajszar Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.