From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: latest SP & OBE Lines: 25 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:31:43 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.77.205.227 X-Trace: news1.atl 963239791 216.77.205.227 (Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:36:31 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:36:31 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news1.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47169 Well, I hate to get back to the fear thing but last night I had that spontaneous SP-OOBE. All I can say is : UGH! There is a definite difference in these spontaneous experiences than in the others. I do believe that the experiences where I fly and try to go see people here on the NG or just have flown around my neighborhood etc are some sort of lucid dreams. Now last night upon going to bed (my spontaneous ones *always* happen when I first go to bed) I was alert, felt as if I hadn't even fallen asleep yet when *boom* I am in the paralysis stage. I start to go with it by moving my hand out. I see my 'other' (astral? for lack of a better word) move out of my 'physical' hand. I turn to my side (not my physical me) I peek out , see the room around me. Here comes *it* and it's brought a few friends! Really now, the fear is back at this point. I sense it around me. I am still just peeking out of my 'astral' eyes and seeing images that scare me. Dark looming images. I start to kick my astral legs rapidly trying to wake my physical body, I reach over and grab my beau's hand and squeeze it tight but he doesn't wake up. Anyway this goes on for a while until I finally do get back in. It is very different from the lucid dream type OBE's and I really don't believe I will ever get past that point. ###### From: Sherilyn <582@sherilyn.org.uk> Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: 10 Jul 2000 08:37:46 -0700 Organization: Extra Newsguy News Service [http://extra.newsguy.com] Lines: 36 Message-ID: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-736.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!news.nikoma.de!tiscalinetde!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeedZ.netscum.dQ!netscum.int!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47196 In article , "lorz" says... > >Well, I hate to get back to the fear thing but last night I had that >spontaneous SP-OOBE. All I can say is : UGH! > >There is a definite difference in these spontaneous experiences than in the >others. I do believe that the experiences where I fly and try to go see >people here on the NG or just have flown around my neighborhood etc are some >sort of lucid dreams. >Now last night upon going to bed (my spontaneous ones *always* happen when I >first go to bed) I was alert, felt as if I hadn't even fallen asleep yet >when *boom* I am in the paralysis stage. I start to go with it by moving my >hand out. I see my 'other' (astral? for lack of a better word) move out of >my 'physical' hand. I turn to my side (not my physical me) I peek out , see >the room around me. >Here comes *it* and it's brought a few friends! Really now, the fear is >back at this point. I sense it around me. I am still just peeking out of my >'astral' eyes and seeing images that scare me. Dark looming images. I start >to kick my astral legs rapidly trying to wake my physical body, I reach over >and grab my beau's hand and squeeze it tight but he doesn't wake up. >Anyway this goes on for a while until I finally do get back in. It is very >different from the lucid dream type OBE's and I really don't believe I will >ever get past that point. I wonder if the huge difference is simply your greater awareness of your body and its state of paralysis. Sleep paralysis has a very bad reputation for making scary experiences, and is thought to be the state in which some so-called "alien abduction" experiences are played out. In a normal lucid dream you're largely unaware of your physical body, but what awareness does remain seems to get integrated into the dream. -- Email handle is time-encoded to foil spammers. Use recent handles only. Filter on domain name only. http://www.sherilyn.org.uk/ ###### From: Haunter@castles.com (Haunter) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 16:43:52 GMT Organization: A.S.I./Psi -App/WCS Lines: 43 Message-ID: <396efcbe.165535119@cnews.newsguy.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-979.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!nmaster.kpnqwest.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47215 On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:31:43 -0400, "lorz" wrote: >Well, I hate to get back to the fear thing but last night I had that >spontaneous SP-OOBE. All I can say is : UGH! > >There is a definite difference in these spontaneous experiences than in the >others. I do believe that the experiences where I fly and try to go see >people here on the NG or just have flown around my neighborhood etc are some >sort of lucid dreams. >Now last night upon going to bed (my spontaneous ones *always* happen when I >first go to bed) I was alert, felt as if I hadn't even fallen asleep yet >when *boom* I am in the paralysis stage. I start to go with it by moving my >hand out. I see my 'other' (astral? for lack of a better word) move out of >my 'physical' hand. I turn to my side (not my physical me) I peek out , see >the room around me. >Here comes *it* and it's brought a few friends! Really now, the fear is >back at this point. I sense it around me. I am still just peeking out of my >'astral' eyes and seeing images that scare me. Dark looming images. I start >to kick my astral legs rapidly trying to wake my physical body, I reach over >and grab my beau's hand and squeeze it tight but he doesn't wake up. >Anyway this goes on for a while until I finally do get back in. It is very >different from the lucid dream type OBE's and I really don't believe I will >ever get past that point. > > > Ahh, sweetie, same old s_it, huh? :( I don't see anything in here about trying to pray, or establish a new "relaxation mantra" like we've been talking about all this time. You need to relax, laugh at the big meanies, kick their astral asses and get past this plateau...but you already know that :-) Better luck next time. -- Haunter: Cognitive Dissident White Crow Society:Knowledge is the Antidote for Fear http://www.whitecrowsociety.com New Double CD of casefiles, now available! Haunter's Ghoststory Page: http://www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/3549/stories.htm RPM's Gallery of Dreams and Weirdness: http://www.legendsmagazine.net/pan/rayn/rpm/ ###### From: Haunter@castles.com (Haunter) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 17:48:07 GMT Organization: A.S.I./Psi -App/WCS Lines: 45 Message-ID: <39710c31.169491546@cnews.newsguy.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-811.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!207.211.168.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47209 Not sure if the original got out...problems with windsock On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:31:43 -0400, "lorz" wrote: >Well, I hate to get back to the fear thing but last night I had that >spontaneous SP-OOBE. All I can say is : UGH! > >There is a definite difference in these spontaneous experiences than in the >others. I do believe that the experiences where I fly and try to go see >people here on the NG or just have flown around my neighborhood etc are some >sort of lucid dreams. >Now last night upon going to bed (my spontaneous ones *always* happen when I >first go to bed) I was alert, felt as if I hadn't even fallen asleep yet >when *boom* I am in the paralysis stage. I start to go with it by moving my >hand out. I see my 'other' (astral? for lack of a better word) move out of >my 'physical' hand. I turn to my side (not my physical me) I peek out , see >the room around me. >Here comes *it* and it's brought a few friends! Really now, the fear is >back at this point. I sense it around me. I am still just peeking out of my >'astral' eyes and seeing images that scare me. Dark looming images. I start >to kick my astral legs rapidly trying to wake my physical body, I reach over >and grab my beau's hand and squeeze it tight but he doesn't wake up. >Anyway this goes on for a while until I finally do get back in. It is very >different from the lucid dream type OBE's and I really don't believe I will >ever get past that point. > > > Ahh, sweetie, same old s_it, huh? :( I don't see anything in here about trying to pray, or establish a new "relaxation mantra" like we've been talking about all this time. You need to relax, laugh at the big meanies, kick their astral asses and get past this plateau...but you already know that :-) Better luck next time. -- Haunter: Cognitive Dissident White Crow Society:Knowledge is the Antidote for Fear http://www.whitecrowsociety.com New Double CD of casefiles, now available! Haunter's Ghoststory Page: http://www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/3549/stories.htm RPM's Gallery of Dreams and Weirdness: http://www.legendsmagazine.net/pan/rayn/rpm/ ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <396efcbe.165535119@cnews.newsguy.com> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 75 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:23:52 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.77.205.204 X-Trace: news1.atl 963253720 216.77.205.204 (Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:28:40 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:28:40 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!falcon.america.net!newsfeed.atl!news1.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47170 Haunter wrote in message <396efcbe.165535119@cnews.newsguy.com>... :On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 10:31:43 -0400, "lorz" wrote: : :>Well, I hate to get back to the fear thing but last night I had that :>spontaneous SP-OOBE. All I can say is : UGH! :> :>There is a definite difference in these spontaneous experiences than in the :>others. I do believe that the experiences where I fly and try to go see :>people here on the NG or just have flown around my neighborhood etc are some :>sort of lucid dreams. :>Now last night upon going to bed (my spontaneous ones *always* happen when I :>first go to bed) I was alert, felt as if I hadn't even fallen asleep yet :>when *boom* I am in the paralysis stage. I start to go with it by moving my :>hand out. I see my 'other' (astral? for lack of a better word) move out of :>my 'physical' hand. I turn to my side (not my physical me) I peek out , see :>the room around me. :>Here comes *it* and it's brought a few friends! Really now, the fear is :>back at this point. I sense it around me. I am still just peeking out of my :>'astral' eyes and seeing images that scare me. Dark looming images. I start :>to kick my astral legs rapidly trying to wake my physical body, I reach over :>and grab my beau's hand and squeeze it tight but he doesn't wake up. :>Anyway this goes on for a while until I finally do get back in. It is very :>different from the lucid dream type OBE's and I really don't believe I will :>ever get past that point. :> :> :> :Ahh, sweetie, same old s_it, huh? :( :I don't see anything in here about trying to pray, or establish a new :"relaxation mantra" like we've been talking about all this time. You :need to relax, laugh at the big meanies, kick their astral asses and :get past this plateau...but you already know that :-) :Better luck next time. Argh! Haunter, I know this! But but but but but... haha You see it just is SO so real at the time. I am not even asleep! I just lay down and within minutes this starts to happen. I use to do the praying thing a long time back which eventually suceeded in me snapping out of it but it didn't get rid of the fear or the sensations. The thing is if, like you and Janice and others have said, to pray or relaxing will work then when I have prayed in the past why would I not make it happen? I have prayed and even tried to relax and go with it before and it just got worse. If it is just in my head why wouldn't I be able to bannish it away by prayer or relaxing? I tried to relax at first but that is when it gets loud (the hum). I grabbed by beaus hand, I kicked and everything. My physical body did nothing I know because he was awake and didn't notice anything except when I started to moan and call his name when I was finally pulling out of it. Also in these experiences I cant get out like in the LD's as far as *far* out. I just sort of peek out and sneak an arm out , move my legs a bit out, etc.. never actually get all the way out and explore. It kind of freaks me out to see the 'astral' arm out there. It's much harder to even get an arm or leg out then in the lucid dream OOBE's. This really is aggravating but I tell you after this type experience I really dont like it's hard to even play around with the lucid dream ones which are so enjoyable. I just dont get the fear, I *know* I am in sleep paralysis.. but the loss of control I guess is what gets to me. It*feels* like something else has control. I know that sounds silly now but at the time it really feels that way! ###### From: Haunter@castles.com (Haunter) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 19:29:42 GMT Organization: A.S.I./Psi -App/WCS Lines: 62 Message-ID: <396a232d.5487582@cnews.newsguy.com> References: <396efcbe.165535119@cnews.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-270.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!nmaster.kpnqwest.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.lotsanews.com.MISMATCH!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47206 On Mon, 10 Jul 2000 14:23:52 -0400, "lorz" wrote: > >:Ahh, sweetie, same old s_it, huh? :( >:I don't see anything in here about trying to pray, or establish a new >:"relaxation mantra" like we've been talking about all this time. You >:need to relax, laugh at the big meanies, kick their astral asses and >:get past this plateau...but you already know that :-) >:Better luck next time. > >Argh! Haunter, I know this! But but but but but... haha You see it just is >SO so real at the time. I am not even asleep! I just lay down and within >minutes this starts to happen. I use to do the praying thing a long time >back which eventually suceeded in me snapping out of it but it didn't get >rid of the fear or the sensations. The thing is if, like you and Janice and >others have said, to pray or relaxing will work then when I have prayed in >the past why would I not make it happen? I have prayed and even tried to >relax and go with it before and it just got worse. If it is just in my head >why wouldn't I be able to bannish it away by prayer or relaxing? >I tried to relax at first but that is when it gets loud (the hum). I grabbed >by beaus hand, I kicked and everything. My physical body did nothing I know >because he was awake and didn't notice anything except when I started to >moan and call his name when I was finally pulling out of it. >Also in these experiences I cant get out like in the LD's as far as *far* >out. I just sort of peek out and sneak an arm out , move my legs a bit out, >etc.. never actually get all the way out and explore. It kind of freaks me >out to see the 'astral' arm out there. > It's much harder to even get an arm or leg out then in the lucid dream >OOBE's. >This really is aggravating but I tell you after this type experience I >really dont like it's hard to even play around with the lucid dream ones >which are so enjoyable. >I just dont get the fear, I *know* I am in sleep paralysis.. but the loss of >control I guess is what gets to me. It*feels* like something else has >control. I know that sounds silly now but at the time it really feels that >way! > > > > Nothing silly about it. Hopefully, through sheer repetition alone, if nothing else, you'll learn there's nothing to be afraid of. You know we'll all be doing a happydance when that happens. Until then, you learn something new every time you go through it; don't push it away because it's unpleasant. It doesn't matter if it's at the end of the night or at sleep onset, like yours is; what matters is that there is absolutely nothing inherent in your experience that seperates it from all the others we've heard here and read in the literature, so there's every reason to believe that you too will get past the fear barrier. It's just taking a long time. Think how woderful it WILL be when you're first able to laugh at your "presences" rather than cower from them! That will be a day for us to celebrate; it WILL happen. -- Haunter: Cognitive Dissident White Crow Society:Knowledge is the Antidote for Fear http://www.whitecrowsociety.com New Double CD of casefiles, now available! Haunter's Ghoststory Page: http://www.geocities.com/soho/gallery/3549/stories.htm RPM's Gallery of Dreams and Weirdness: http://www.legendsmagazine.net/pan/rayn/rpm/ ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <39710c31.169491546@cnews.newsguy.com> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 8 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:47:20 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.78.240.37 X-Trace: news2.atl 963258727 216.78.240.37 (Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:52:07 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:52:07 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!nmaster.kpnqwest.net!blackbush.xlink.net!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeedZ.netscum.dQ!netscum.int!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.atl!news2.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47171 Haunter wrote in message <39710c31.169491546@cnews.newsguy.com>... :Not sure if the original got out...problems with windsock Not sure if the original me got out either but it sure did feel like it! Actually felt more like a duplicate ;-) hehe ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 55 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:51:49 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.78.240.37 X-Trace: news2.atl 963258998 216.78.240.37 (Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:56:38 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 15:56:38 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!falcon.america.net!newsfeed.atl!news2.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47176 Sherilyn <582@sherilyn.org.uk> wrote in message <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com>... :In article , "lorz" says... :> :>Well, I hate to get back to the fear thing but last night I had that :>spontaneous SP-OOBE. All I can say is : UGH! :> :>There is a definite difference in these spontaneous experiences than in the :>others. I do believe that the experiences where I fly and try to go see :>people here on the NG or just have flown around my neighborhood etc are some :>sort of lucid dreams. :>Now last night upon going to bed (my spontaneous ones *always* happen when I :>first go to bed) I was alert, felt as if I hadn't even fallen asleep yet :>when *boom* I am in the paralysis stage. I start to go with it by moving my :>hand out. I see my 'other' (astral? for lack of a better word) move out of :>my 'physical' hand. I turn to my side (not my physical me) I peek out , see :>the room around me. :>Here comes *it* and it's brought a few friends! Really now, the fear is :>back at this point. I sense it around me. I am still just peeking out of my :>'astral' eyes and seeing images that scare me. Dark looming images. I start :>to kick my astral legs rapidly trying to wake my physical body, I reach over :>and grab my beau's hand and squeeze it tight but he doesn't wake up. :>Anyway this goes on for a while until I finally do get back in. It is very :>different from the lucid dream type OBE's and I really don't believe I will :>ever get past that point. : :I wonder if the huge difference is simply your greater awareness of your body :and its state of paralysis. Sleep paralysis has a very bad reputation for :making scary experiences, and is thought to be the state in which some so-called :"alien abduction" experiences are played out. In a normal lucid dream you're :largely unaware of your physical body, but what awareness does remain seems to :get integrated into the dream. Well I know I am very aware of my physical and what seems like my non physical body in my SP-OBE experiences. In my lucid dream OBE experiences I am not aware of my physical body but not even that aware of my non physical one, it's more of a 'dream' where I am aware of dreaming. In OOBE it isnt an awareness of dreaming...it just feels more of a happening. Like something is actually occuring without falling to sleep. ###### Message-ID: <396A681C.4817@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 61 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 19:17:25 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-gwMh125Jz8MmAHpOwkWkTY7ubw+b2twMrtXVjE3mYGAo87LhXkp5tUoQHROJTkxO2Mf+H8opLdHdlDQ!pzYkVPgOr80637zlP3nIW7ji3Ok= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:19:40 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!152.163.239.131!portc03.blue.aol.com!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news5.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47146 lorz wrote: > > Sherilyn <582@sherilyn.org.uk> wrote in message > <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com>... > :In article , "lorz" says... > :> > :>Well, I hate to get back to the fear thing but last night I had that > :>spontaneous SP-OOBE. All I can say is : UGH! > :> > :>There is a definite difference in these spontaneous experiences than in > the > :>others. I do believe that the experiences where I fly and try to go see > :>people here on the NG or just have flown around my neighborhood etc are > some > :>sort of lucid dreams. > :>Now last night upon going to bed (my spontaneous ones *always* happen when > I > :>first go to bed) I was alert, felt as if I hadn't even fallen asleep yet > :>when *boom* I am in the paralysis stage. I start to go with it by moving > my > :>hand out. I see my 'other' (astral? for lack of a better word) move out of > :>my 'physical' hand. I turn to my side (not my physical me) I peek out , > see > :>the room around me. > :>Here comes *it* and it's brought a few friends! Really now, the fear is > :>back at this point. I sense it around me. I am still just peeking out of > my > :>'astral' eyes and seeing images that scare me. Dark looming images. I > start > :>to kick my astral legs rapidly trying to wake my physical body, I reach > over > :>and grab my beau's hand and squeeze it tight but he doesn't wake up. > :>Anyway this goes on for a while until I finally do get back in. It is very > :>different from the lucid dream type OBE's and I really don't believe I > will > :>ever get past that point. > : > :I wonder if the huge difference is simply your greater awareness of your > body > :and its state of paralysis. Sleep paralysis has a very bad reputation for > :making scary experiences, and is thought to be the state in which some > so-called > :"alien abduction" experiences are played out. In a normal lucid dream > you're > :largely unaware of your physical body, but what awareness does remain seems > to > :get integrated into the dream. > > Well I know I am very aware of my physical and what seems like my non > physical body in my SP-OBE experiences. In my lucid dream OBE experiences I > am not aware of my physical body but not even that aware of my non physical > one, it's more of a 'dream' where I am aware of dreaming. In OOBE it isnt an > awareness of dreaming...it just feels more of a happening. Like something is > actually occuring without falling to sleep. I'm inclined to agree with Sherilyn on this point - I think it's just a matter of the paralysis kicking in suddenly and drawing your attention. Have you tried asking "it" what the heck it wants from you? Some people report that they get a little self-improvement spiel from their dream or SP enemy and then it goes away never to return. ###### From: "Lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <396A681C.4817@not-here.net> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 93 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:16:04 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.77.205.209 X-Trace: news2.atl 963278549 216.77.205.209 (Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:22:29 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:22:29 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!nmaster.kpnqwest.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news2.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47179 Janice wrote in message news:396A681C.4817@not-here.net... : lorz wrote: : > : > Sherilyn <582@sherilyn.org.uk> wrote in message : > <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com>... : > :In article , "lorz" says... : > :> : > :>Well, I hate to get back to the fear thing but last night I had that : > :>spontaneous SP-OOBE. All I can say is : UGH! : > :> : > :>There is a definite difference in these spontaneous experiences than in : > the : > :>others. I do believe that the experiences where I fly and try to go see : > :>people here on the NG or just have flown around my neighborhood etc are : > some : > :>sort of lucid dreams. : > :>Now last night upon going to bed (my spontaneous ones *always* happen when : > I : > :>first go to bed) I was alert, felt as if I hadn't even fallen asleep yet : > :>when *boom* I am in the paralysis stage. I start to go with it by moving : > my : > :>hand out. I see my 'other' (astral? for lack of a better word) move out of : > :>my 'physical' hand. I turn to my side (not my physical me) I peek out , : > see : > :>the room around me. : > :>Here comes *it* and it's brought a few friends! Really now, the fear is : > :>back at this point. I sense it around me. I am still just peeking out of : > my : > :>'astral' eyes and seeing images that scare me. Dark looming images. I : > start : > :>to kick my astral legs rapidly trying to wake my physical body, I reach : > over : > :>and grab my beau's hand and squeeze it tight but he doesn't wake up. : > :>Anyway this goes on for a while until I finally do get back in. It is very : > :>different from the lucid dream type OBE's and I really don't believe I : > will : > :>ever get past that point. : > : : > :I wonder if the huge difference is simply your greater awareness of your : > body : > :and its state of paralysis. Sleep paralysis has a very bad reputation for : > :making scary experiences, and is thought to be the state in which some : > so-called : > :"alien abduction" experiences are played out. In a normal lucid dream : > you're : > :largely unaware of your physical body, but what awareness does remain seems : > to : > :get integrated into the dream. : > : > Well I know I am very aware of my physical and what seems like my non : > physical body in my SP-OBE experiences. In my lucid dream OBE experiences I : > am not aware of my physical body but not even that aware of my non physical : > one, it's more of a 'dream' where I am aware of dreaming. In OOBE it isnt an : > awareness of dreaming...it just feels more of a happening. Like something is : > actually occuring without falling to sleep. : : I'm inclined to agree with Sherilyn on this point - I think it's just a : matter of the paralysis kicking in suddenly and drawing your attention. : : Have you tried asking "it" what the heck it wants from you? Some people : report that they get a little self-improvement spiel from their dream or : SP enemy and then it goes away never to return. Nope, I havent asked anything. It's hard to explain this overwhelming fear in these particular OBE's. It isn't like I can't think about anything but making sure I get my physical body to realize I am there. All I can think is please get up... please get up. It's wierd to do this kicking and reaching and nothing is really happening in the physical. I can't say I like it ya know? ###### Message-ID: <396A8962.FDC@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <396A681C.4817@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 21:39:22 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-03dhL8sqR8Me6CUoHctagEiC28PHf9euSWnrprS1ASJg0G1jCBvj6QSBEanLLZrBk1BLhXL1aaHr73Y!c109HRsF2b0X/SWkjLGhnX2GILs= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 22:41:38 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!152.163.239.131!portc03.blue.aol.com!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47142 Lorz wrote: > > Janice wrote in message > news:396A681C.4817@not-here.net... > : Have you tried asking "it" what the heck it wants from you? Some people > : report that they get a little self-improvement spiel from their dream or > : SP enemy and then it goes away never to return. > > Nope, I havent asked anything. It's hard to explain this overwhelming fear > in these particular OBE's. It isn't like I can't think about anything but > making sure I get my physical body to realize I am there. All I can think is > please get up... please get up. It's wierd to do this kicking and reaching > and nothing is really happening in the physical. I can't say I like it ya > know? Maybe you need to work on it in waking. Have you tried imagining yourself dealing handily with "it" (by whatever means you prefer) to try to prime your mind to repeat your success during an actual SP incident? ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <396A681C.4817@not-here.net> <396A8962.FDC@not-here.net> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 34 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:57:52 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.77.205.226 X-Trace: news2.atl 963320554 216.77.205.226 (Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:02:34 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 09:02:34 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news2.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47161 Janice wrote in message <396A8962.FDC@not-here.net>... :Lorz wrote: :> :> Janice wrote in message :> news:396A681C.4817@not-here.net... : :> : Have you tried asking "it" what the heck it wants from you? Some people :> : report that they get a little self-improvement spiel from their dream or :> : SP enemy and then it goes away never to return. :> :> Nope, I havent asked anything. It's hard to explain this overwhelming fear :> in these particular OBE's. It isn't like I can't think about anything but :> making sure I get my physical body to realize I am there. All I can think is :> please get up... please get up. It's wierd to do this kicking and reaching :> and nothing is really happening in the physical. I can't say I like it ya :> know? : :Maybe you need to work on it in waking. Have you tried imagining :yourself dealing handily with "it" (by whatever means you prefer) to try :to prime your mind to repeat your success during an actual SP incident? hmm well, I'm not looking for a fight but maybe I will try to practice just asking want it wants and telling it to leave me alone. How's that? Although I have said to myself that Iwill do this but when these episodes start it seems I cant even try. I just want to get back and out of it. ###### Message-ID: <396B8695.69BF@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <396A681C.4817@not-here.net> <396A8962.FDC@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 39 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 15:39:40 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-LyFsMHeQZcCRnsX5We8HET0fjaptz2MnbTzPn5VvAEf3aJk2+x5/wDP7EXYmmbKyPPe/TBCBfGHE9OX!H7I9+fwoT8yrwSgFS645WwyFlgw= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:41:57 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news5.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47244 lorz wrote: > > Janice wrote in message <396A8962.FDC@not-here.net>... > :Lorz wrote: > :> > :> Janice wrote in message > :> news:396A681C.4817@not-here.net... > : > :> : Have you tried asking "it" what the heck it wants from you? Some > people > :> : report that they get a little self-improvement spiel from their dream > or > :> : SP enemy and then it goes away never to return. > :> > :> Nope, I havent asked anything. It's hard to explain this overwhelming > fear > :> in these particular OBE's. It isn't like I can't think about anything but > :> making sure I get my physical body to realize I am there. All I can think > is > :> please get up... please get up. It's wierd to do this kicking and > reaching > :> and nothing is really happening in the physical. I can't say I like it ya > :> know? > : > :Maybe you need to work on it in waking. Have you tried imagining > :yourself dealing handily with "it" (by whatever means you prefer) to try > :to prime your mind to repeat your success during an actual SP incident? > > hmm well, I'm not looking for a fight but maybe I will try to practice just > asking want it wants and telling it to leave me alone. How's that? Although > I have said to myself that Iwill do this but when these episodes start it > seems I cant even try. I just want to get back and out of it. Hopefully the waking practice will help. If you don't like the idea of fighting it or "giving it love" you could try the "asking it what it wants" approach, or even the "bathing it in white light" approach. I don't believe there's anything literally magical or psychotherapeutic about any of these techniques - they are just suggestion tricks - but I think you need to do *something* to get this under control. ###### From: Shawn Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Message-ID: References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <396A681C.4817@not-here.net> <396A8962.FDC@not-here.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 39 Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:15:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 142.177.92.21 X-Complaints-To: abuse@ns.sympatico.ca X-Trace: sapphire.mtt.net 963350138 142.177.92.21 (Tue, 11 Jul 2000 18:15:38 ADT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 18:15:38 ADT Organization: Sympatico-Subscriber Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!nmaster.kpnqwest.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news3.bellglobal.com!news1.bellglobal.com!sapphire.mtt.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47264 what is an sp? what are you talking about? i am curious. On Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:57:52 -0400, "lorz" wrote: > >Janice wrote in message <396A8962.FDC@not-here.net>... >:Lorz wrote: >:> >:> Janice wrote in message >:> news:396A681C.4817@not-here.net... >: >:> : Have you tried asking "it" what the heck it wants from you? Some >people >:> : report that they get a little self-improvement spiel from their dream >or >:> : SP enemy and then it goes away never to return. >:> >:> Nope, I havent asked anything. It's hard to explain this overwhelming >fear >:> in these particular OBE's. It isn't like I can't think about anything but >:> making sure I get my physical body to realize I am there. All I can think >is >:> please get up... please get up. It's wierd to do this kicking and >reaching >:> and nothing is really happening in the physical. I can't say I like it ya >:> know? >: >:Maybe you need to work on it in waking. Have you tried imagining >:yourself dealing handily with "it" (by whatever means you prefer) to try >:to prime your mind to repeat your success during an actual SP incident? > >hmm well, I'm not looking for a fight but maybe I will try to practice just >asking want it wants and telling it to leave me alone. How's that? Although >I have said to myself that Iwill do this but when these episodes start it >seems I cant even try. I just want to get back and out of it. > > ###### Message-ID: <396B914B.4677@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <396A681C.4817@not-here.net> <396A8962.FDC@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 43 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 16:25:21 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-Ao9gXuyd084eKLCQynAbue4T6wIyFaS3LBGjorGyZd43Ov0LCYHP1v6rmftPwtSJoZrE5LyDVCZdE5g!sv7u1SynGvX/5TVsvliPKS3CNu8= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 17:27:39 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!152.163.239.131!portc03.blue.aol.com!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47242 It's short for "sleep paralysis," an experience in which you are highly aware but unable to move or speak. Some people, like Lorene unfortunately, feel an overwhelming fear during these episodes. Shawn wrote: > > what is an sp? what are you talking about? i am curious. > > On Tue, 11 Jul 2000 08:57:52 -0400, "lorz" wrote: > > > > >Janice wrote in message <396A8962.FDC@not-here.net>... > >:Lorz wrote: > >:> > >:> Janice wrote in message > >:> news:396A681C.4817@not-here.net... > >: > >:> : Have you tried asking "it" what the heck it wants from you? Some > >people > >:> : report that they get a little self-improvement spiel from their dream > >or > >:> : SP enemy and then it goes away never to return. > >:> > >:> Nope, I havent asked anything. It's hard to explain this overwhelming > >fear > >:> in these particular OBE's. It isn't like I can't think about anything but > >:> making sure I get my physical body to realize I am there. All I can think > >is > >:> please get up... please get up. It's wierd to do this kicking and > >reaching > >:> and nothing is really happening in the physical. I can't say I like it ya > >:> know? > >: > >:Maybe you need to work on it in waking. Have you tried imagining > >:yourself dealing handily with "it" (by whatever means you prefer) to try > >:to prime your mind to repeat your success during an actual SP incident? > > > >hmm well, I'm not looking for a fight but maybe I will try to practice just > >asking want it wants and telling it to leave me alone. How's that? Although > >I have said to myself that Iwill do this but when these episodes start it > >seems I cant even try. I just want to get back and out of it. > > > > ###### From: "B.D. Yager" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 107 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 08:41:29 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 156.46.129.20 X-Complaints-To: abuse@alpha.net X-Trace: homer.alpha.net 963755154 156.46.129.20 (Sun, 16 Jul 2000 08:45:54 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 08:45:54 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.online.no!newsfeed.online.no!news.powertech.no!uninett.no!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!homer.alpha.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47420 lorz wrote in message news:WTpa5.3586$fh7.42267@news2.atl... > > Sherilyn <582@sherilyn.org.uk> wrote in message > <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com>... > :In article , "lorz" says... > :> > :>Well, I hate to get back to the fear thing but last night I had that > :>spontaneous SP-OOBE. All I can say is : UGH! > :> > :>There is a definite difference in these spontaneous experiences than in > the > :>others. I do believe that the experiences where I fly and try to go see > :>people here on the NG or just have flown around my neighborhood etc are > some > :>sort of lucid dreams. > :>Now last night upon going to bed (my spontaneous ones *always* happen when > I > :>first go to bed) I was alert, felt as if I hadn't even fallen asleep yet > :>when *boom* I am in the paralysis stage. I start to go with it by moving > my > :>hand out. I see my 'other' (astral? for lack of a better word) move out of > :>my 'physical' hand. I turn to my side (not my physical me) I peek out , > see > :>the room around me. > :>Here comes *it* and it's brought a few friends! Really now, the fear is > :>back at this point. I sense it around me. I am still just peeking out of > my > :>'astral' eyes and seeing images that scare me. Dark looming images. I > start > :>to kick my astral legs rapidly trying to wake my physical body, I reach > over > :>and grab my beau's hand and squeeze it tight but he doesn't wake up. > :>Anyway this goes on for a while until I finally do get back in. It is very > :>different from the lucid dream type OBE's and I really don't believe I > will > :>ever get past that point. > : > :I wonder if the huge difference is simply your greater awareness of your > body > :and its state of paralysis. Sleep paralysis has a very bad reputation for > :making scary experiences, and is thought to be the state in which some > so-called > :"alien abduction" experiences are played out. In a normal lucid dream > you're > :largely unaware of your physical body, but what awareness does remain seems > to > :get integrated into the dream. > > Well I know I am very aware of my physical and what seems like my non > physical body in my SP-OBE experiences. In my lucid dream OBE experiences I > am not aware of my physical body but not even that aware of my non physical > one, it's more of a 'dream' where I am aware of dreaming. In OOBE it isnt an > awareness of dreaming...it just feels more of a happening. Like something is > actually occuring without falling to sleep. > Hi Lorene! I'm sorry to hear that you're still encountering your "ugghhhs"! But I believe, that by giving them mental focus... you are inviting them! Keeping them, and attracting them! The surest way to keep a dog from nipping at your heels, is to turn around and face it! Stomp your foot! (I know...easier said than done!) (Just off the cuff, here....) But, consider...or try this: Robert Monroe described this "realm" of the nasties, the Evil, and the Tormentors... as being closely associated with the physical realm. Which makes sense, to me! You are initially entering the very first realm, with your onset of OOBE. Ignore them... and DON'T struggle! (Mentally, or physically!) Picture these tormentors of your's to be in... layer #1. You must float upward through them, and on into layer #2. They will be attracted by your own fear...and attracted by your struggle! So, Don't. Just float through that layer...and don't attract attention! Monroe described it.... as if he were a worm floating upwards through the water. A few "tormentors" would look at him, yes... but if he didn't "move", they were not particularly interested in him! If he panicked though...and struggled.... (wiggled like a worried worm!)... then an entire barrage of tormentors would be immediately after him!!! With practice, Monroe said,.. he was able to learn to float quickly through the area without incident. Try this, Lorene. These tormentors *are* trapped in a singular band of the astral, just next to the physical one. They cannot get out.... but *you* can! (This is actually why they're after you!) They are feeding on your fear...holding you to this realm! So, don't struggle. Relax. Ignore. *Know* that beyond them...is your own freedom! Float through! When you get past... *then* you can laugh at them!! :) Just some thoughts... hope it helped! B.D. > ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 119 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> X-Trace: /wscuwvyoI8H8L1eWZ9wme6nQWBnbBmQvFaaBtbgP345+Tas2GYQ/Ui4xTugVSRNHToFnuBByZ6T!ZBif4rxJYvti5sz4bCX/fduMukmShWRtT/ZMirDhYgeE6yB46xm2UPr7Pk2d1lRmPS+KCT4a3k+s!JefYW9Oi X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 14:06:53 GMT Distribution: world Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 14:06:53 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.online.no!newsfeed.online.no!news.powertech.no!uninett.no!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47448 B.D. Yager wrote in message ... > >lorz wrote in message >news:WTpa5.3586$fh7.42267@news2.atl... >> >> Sherilyn <582@sherilyn.org.uk> wrote in message >> <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com>... >> :In article , "lorz" says... >> :> >> :>Well, I hate to get back to the fear thing but last night I had that >> :>spontaneous SP-OOBE. All I can say is : UGH! >> :> >> :>There is a definite difference in these spontaneous experiences than in >> the >> :>others. I do believe that the experiences where I fly and try to go see >> :>people here on the NG or just have flown around my neighborhood etc are >> some >> :>sort of lucid dreams. >> :>Now last night upon going to bed (my spontaneous ones *always* happen >when >> I >> :>first go to bed) I was alert, felt as if I hadn't even fallen asleep yet >> :>when *boom* I am in the paralysis stage. I start to go with it by moving >> my >> :>hand out. I see my 'other' (astral? for lack of a better word) move out >of >> :>my 'physical' hand. I turn to my side (not my physical me) I peek out , >> see >> :>the room around me. >> :>Here comes *it* and it's brought a few friends! Really now, the fear is >> :>back at this point. I sense it around me. I am still just peeking out of >> my >> :>'astral' eyes and seeing images that scare me. Dark looming images. I >> start >> :>to kick my astral legs rapidly trying to wake my physical body, I reach >> over >> :>and grab my beau's hand and squeeze it tight but he doesn't wake up. >> :>Anyway this goes on for a while until I finally do get back in. It is >very >> :>different from the lucid dream type OBE's and I really don't believe I >> will >> :>ever get past that point. >> : >> :I wonder if the huge difference is simply your greater awareness of your >> body >> :and its state of paralysis. Sleep paralysis has a very bad reputation >for >> :making scary experiences, and is thought to be the state in which some >> so-called >> :"alien abduction" experiences are played out. In a normal lucid dream >> you're >> :largely unaware of your physical body, but what awareness does remain >seems >> to >> :get integrated into the dream. >> >> Well I know I am very aware of my physical and what seems like my non >> physical body in my SP-OBE experiences. In my lucid dream OBE experiences >I >> am not aware of my physical body but not even that aware of my non >physical >> one, it's more of a 'dream' where I am aware of dreaming. In OOBE it isnt >an >> awareness of dreaming...it just feels more of a happening. Like something >is >> actually occuring without falling to sleep. >> > > >Hi Lorene! I'm sorry to hear that you're still encountering your "ugghhhs"! >But I believe, that by giving them mental focus... you are inviting them! >Keeping them, and attracting them! The surest way to keep a dog from >nipping at your heels, is to turn around and face it! Stomp your foot! (I >know...easier said than done!) >(Just off the cuff, here....) But, consider...or try this: > >Robert Monroe described this "realm" of the nasties, the Evil, and the >Tormentors... as being closely associated with the physical realm. Which >makes sense, to me! You are initially entering the very first realm, with >your onset of OOBE. Ignore them... and DON'T struggle! (Mentally, or >physically!) Picture these tormentors of your's to be in... layer #1. You >must float upward through them, and on into layer #2. They will be >attracted by your own fear...and attracted by your struggle! So, Don't. >Just float through that layer...and don't attract attention! Monroe >described it.... as if he were a worm floating upwards through the water. A >few "tormentors" would look at him, yes... but if he didn't "move", they >were not particularly interested in him! If he panicked though...and >struggled.... (wiggled like a worried worm!)... then an entire barrage of >tormentors would be immediately after him!!! With practice, Monroe said,.. >he was able to learn to float quickly through the area without incident. > >Try this, Lorene. These tormentors *are* trapped in a singular band of the >astral, just next to the physical one. They cannot get out.... but *you* >can! (This is actually why they're after you!) They are feeding on your >fear...holding you to this realm! So, don't struggle. Relax. Ignore. >*Know* that beyond them...is your own freedom! Float through! When you get >past... *then* you can laugh at them!! :) > >Just some thoughts... hope it helped! > >B.D. oooh Bruce, that's scary. Reminds me of the movie "Poltergeist". I can understand why people would believe that the soul is leaving the body and encountering other "spirits" .... but how could these spirits cause harm? I mean .. what kind of harm could they possibly cause in a non physical environment? ###### From: "Lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 149 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 12:20:09 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.78.240.6 X-Trace: news3.atl 963764808 216.78.240.6 (Sun, 16 Jul 2000 12:26:48 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 12:26:48 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.online.no!newsfeed.online.no!uninett.no!news.algonet.se!algonet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news3.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47400 Trish wrote in message news:1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net... : : B.D. Yager wrote in message ... : > : >lorz wrote in message : >news:WTpa5.3586$fh7.42267@news2.atl... : >> : >> Sherilyn <582@sherilyn.org.uk> wrote in message : >> <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com>... : >> :In article , "lorz" says... : >> :> : >> :>Well, I hate to get back to the fear thing but last night I had that : >> :>spontaneous SP-OOBE. All I can say is : UGH! : >> :> : >> :>There is a definite difference in these spontaneous experiences than in : >> the : >> :>others. I do believe that the experiences where I fly and try to go see : >> :>people here on the NG or just have flown around my neighborhood etc are : >> some : >> :>sort of lucid dreams. : >> :>Now last night upon going to bed (my spontaneous ones *always* happen : >when : >> I : >> :>first go to bed) I was alert, felt as if I hadn't even fallen asleep : yet : >> :>when *boom* I am in the paralysis stage. I start to go with it by : moving : >> my : >> :>hand out. I see my 'other' (astral? for lack of a better word) move out : >of : >> :>my 'physical' hand. I turn to my side (not my physical me) I peek out , : >> see : >> :>the room around me. : >> :>Here comes *it* and it's brought a few friends! Really now, the fear : is : >> :>back at this point. I sense it around me. I am still just peeking out : of : >> my : >> :>'astral' eyes and seeing images that scare me. Dark looming images. I : >> start : >> :>to kick my astral legs rapidly trying to wake my physical body, I reach : >> over : >> :>and grab my beau's hand and squeeze it tight but he doesn't wake up. : >> :>Anyway this goes on for a while until I finally do get back in. It is : >very : >> :>different from the lucid dream type OBE's and I really don't believe I : >> will : >> :>ever get past that point. : >> : : >> :I wonder if the huge difference is simply your greater awareness of your : >> body : >> :and its state of paralysis. Sleep paralysis has a very bad reputation : >for : >> :making scary experiences, and is thought to be the state in which some : >> so-called : >> :"alien abduction" experiences are played out. In a normal lucid dream : >> you're : >> :largely unaware of your physical body, but what awareness does remain : >seems : >> to : >> :get integrated into the dream. : >> : >> Well I know I am very aware of my physical and what seems like my non : >> physical body in my SP-OBE experiences. In my lucid dream OBE experiences : >I : >> am not aware of my physical body but not even that aware of my non : >physical : >> one, it's more of a 'dream' where I am aware of dreaming. In OOBE it isnt : >an : >> awareness of dreaming...it just feels more of a happening. Like something : >is : >> actually occuring without falling to sleep. : >> : > : > : >Hi Lorene! I'm sorry to hear that you're still encountering your : "ugghhhs"! : >But I believe, that by giving them mental focus... you are inviting them! : >Keeping them, and attracting them! The surest way to keep a dog from : >nipping at your heels, is to turn around and face it! Stomp your foot! (I : >know...easier said than done!) : >(Just off the cuff, here....) But, consider...or try this: : > : >Robert Monroe described this "realm" of the nasties, the Evil, and the : >Tormentors... as being closely associated with the physical realm. Which : >makes sense, to me! You are initially entering the very first realm, with : >your onset of OOBE. Ignore them... and DON'T struggle! (Mentally, or : >physically!) Picture these tormentors of your's to be in... layer #1. You : >must float upward through them, and on into layer #2. They will be : >attracted by your own fear...and attracted by your struggle! So, Don't. : >Just float through that layer...and don't attract attention! Monroe : >described it.... as if he were a worm floating upwards through the water. : A : >few "tormentors" would look at him, yes... but if he didn't "move", they : >were not particularly interested in him! If he panicked though...and : >struggled.... (wiggled like a worried worm!)... then an entire barrage of : >tormentors would be immediately after him!!! With practice, Monroe said,.. : >he was able to learn to float quickly through the area without incident. : > : >Try this, Lorene. These tormentors *are* trapped in a singular band of the : >astral, just next to the physical one. They cannot get out.... but *you* : >can! (This is actually why they're after you!) They are feeding on your : >fear...holding you to this realm! So, don't struggle. Relax. Ignore. : >*Know* that beyond them...is your own freedom! Float through! When you : get : >past... *then* you can laugh at them!! :) : > : >Just some thoughts... hope it helped! : > : >B.D. : : : oooh Bruce, that's scary. Reminds me of the movie "Poltergeist". : : I can understand why people would believe that the soul is leaving the body : and encountering other "spirits" .... but how could these spirits cause : harm? I mean .. what kind of harm could they possibly cause in a non : physical environment? I think whether I try it Bruce's way or believe it to be from within as Haunter and Janice have assured me it doesn't matter. I think as long as I *believe* nothing can hurt me in this state then nothing can. So I will keep trying. Also Haunter if you are reading this I am reading all your abstracts and do appreciate them ! Just wanted you to know! Thanks to all, Lorene ###### From: Haunter@castles.com (Haunter) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 20:01:31 GMT Organization: A.S.I./Psi -App/WCS Lines: 31 Message-ID: <399c1451.98995756@cnews.newsguy.com> References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-274.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.online.no!newsfeed.online.no!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews2 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47430 On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 12:20:09 -0400, "Lorz" wrote: big snip >: oooh Bruce, that's scary. Reminds me of the movie "Poltergeist". >: >: I can understand why people would believe that the soul is leaving the >body >: and encountering other "spirits" .... but how could these spirits cause >: harm? I mean .. what kind of harm could they possibly cause in a non >: physical environment? > >I think whether I try it Bruce's way or believe it to be from within as >Haunter and Janice have assured me it doesn't matter. I think as long as I >*believe* nothing can hurt me in this state then nothing can. So I will >keep trying. >Also Haunter if you are reading this I am reading all your abstracts and do >appreciate them ! Just wanted you to know! > >Thanks to all, >Lorene > Thanks, sweetie :-) -- Haunter: Cognitive Dissident White Crow Society:Knowledge is the Antidote for Fear http://www.whitecrowsociety.com New Double CD of casefiles, now available Sign up now for 3 new WCS on-line classes in Intro., Medical and In-field Parapsychology ###### From: "B.D. Yager" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 153 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:03:25 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 156.46.129.103 X-Complaints-To: abuse@alpha.net X-Trace: homer.alpha.net 963788877 156.46.129.103 (Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:07:57 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:07:57 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.online.no!newsfeed.online.no!news.powertech.no!uninett.no!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!newsfeeds.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!homer.alpha.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47423 Trish wrote in message news:1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net... > > B.D. Yager wrote in message ... > > > >lorz wrote in message > >news:WTpa5.3586$fh7.42267@news2.atl... > >> > >> Sherilyn <582@sherilyn.org.uk> wrote in message > >> <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com>... > >> :In article , "lorz" says... > >> :> > >> :>Well, I hate to get back to the fear thing but last night I had that > >> :>spontaneous SP-OOBE. All I can say is : UGH! > >> :> > >> :>There is a definite difference in these spontaneous experiences than in > >> the > >> :>others. I do believe that the experiences where I fly and try to go see > >> :>people here on the NG or just have flown around my neighborhood etc are > >> some > >> :>sort of lucid dreams. > >> :>Now last night upon going to bed (my spontaneous ones *always* happen > >when > >> I > >> :>first go to bed) I was alert, felt as if I hadn't even fallen asleep > yet > >> :>when *boom* I am in the paralysis stage. I start to go with it by > moving > >> my > >> :>hand out. I see my 'other' (astral? for lack of a better word) move out > >of > >> :>my 'physical' hand. I turn to my side (not my physical me) I peek out , > >> see > >> :>the room around me. > >> :>Here comes *it* and it's brought a few friends! Really now, the fear > is > >> :>back at this point. I sense it around me. I am still just peeking out > of > >> my > >> :>'astral' eyes and seeing images that scare me. Dark looming images. I > >> start > >> :>to kick my astral legs rapidly trying to wake my physical body, I reach > >> over > >> :>and grab my beau's hand and squeeze it tight but he doesn't wake up. > >> :>Anyway this goes on for a while until I finally do get back in. It is > >very > >> :>different from the lucid dream type OBE's and I really don't believe I > >> will > >> :>ever get past that point. > >> : > >> :I wonder if the huge difference is simply your greater awareness of your > >> body > >> :and its state of paralysis. Sleep paralysis has a very bad reputation > >for > >> :making scary experiences, and is thought to be the state in which some > >> so-called > >> :"alien abduction" experiences are played out. In a normal lucid dream > >> you're > >> :largely unaware of your physical body, but what awareness does remain > >seems > >> to > >> :get integrated into the dream. > >> > >> Well I know I am very aware of my physical and what seems like my non > >> physical body in my SP-OBE experiences. In my lucid dream OBE experiences > >I > >> am not aware of my physical body but not even that aware of my non > >physical > >> one, it's more of a 'dream' where I am aware of dreaming. In OOBE it isnt > >an > >> awareness of dreaming...it just feels more of a happening. Like something > >is > >> actually occuring without falling to sleep. > >> > > > > > >Hi Lorene! I'm sorry to hear that you're still encountering your > "ugghhhs"! > >But I believe, that by giving them mental focus... you are inviting them! > >Keeping them, and attracting them! The surest way to keep a dog from > >nipping at your heels, is to turn around and face it! Stomp your foot! (I > >know...easier said than done!) > >(Just off the cuff, here....) But, consider...or try this: > > > >Robert Monroe described this "realm" of the nasties, the Evil, and the > >Tormentors... as being closely associated with the physical realm. Which > >makes sense, to me! You are initially entering the very first realm, with > >your onset of OOBE. Ignore them... and DON'T struggle! (Mentally, or > >physically!) Picture these tormentors of your's to be in... layer #1. You > >must float upward through them, and on into layer #2. They will be > >attracted by your own fear...and attracted by your struggle! So, Don't. > >Just float through that layer...and don't attract attention! Monroe > >described it.... as if he were a worm floating upwards through the water. > A > >few "tormentors" would look at him, yes... but if he didn't "move", they > >were not particularly interested in him! If he panicked though...and > >struggled.... (wiggled like a worried worm!)... then an entire barrage of > >tormentors would be immediately after him!!! With practice, Monroe said,.. > >he was able to learn to float quickly through the area without incident. > > > >Try this, Lorene. These tormentors *are* trapped in a singular band of the > >astral, just next to the physical one. They cannot get out.... but *you* > >can! (This is actually why they're after you!) They are feeding on your > >fear...holding you to this realm! So, don't struggle. Relax. Ignore. > >*Know* that beyond them...is your own freedom! Float through! When you > get > >past... *then* you can laugh at them!! :) > > > >Just some thoughts... hope it helped! > > > >B.D. > > > oooh Bruce, that's scary. Reminds me of the movie "Poltergeist". > > I can understand why people would believe that the soul is leaving the body > and encountering other "spirits" .... but how could these spirits cause > harm? I mean .. what kind of harm could they possibly cause in a non > physical environment? > > Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! The fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of eternal torment by them.. or, total extinction? So, who wants to chance it???? "Fear" is real... so there must be a just reason for it. Even the Angels...encountering Humans,... first said "Fear Not".! If there were no basis for the fear... why would it be mentioned? Hmmmmm????? B.D. ###### From: "ws" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 01:51:18 +0200 Organization: Planet Internet Lines: 63 Message-ID: <8kti0c$7h8s6$1@reader4.wxs.nl> References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ipc3798ecd.dial.wxs.nl X-Trace: reader4.wxs.nl 963791692 7906182 195.121.142.205 (16 Jul 2000 23:54:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wxs.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Jul 2000 23:54:52 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news2.kpn.net!news.kpn.net!news.wxs.nl!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47407 This is the same what i experience for about 10 or15 years now. and always the same they do to me things that i dont want them so i struggle i thought it was an abduction cause they drilled in my head and they put something in my head. or they/it bites me at the same place on my head as it was drilling a few years ago. thx for the words of Robert Monroe, i'm gonna practice and get some rest after 15 years. or have some nice experiences. ============================================================================ ==== > Hi Lorene! I'm sorry to hear that you're still encountering your "ugghhhs"! > But I believe, that by giving them mental focus... you are inviting them! > Keeping them, and attracting them! The surest way to keep a dog from > nipping at your heels, is to turn around and face it! Stomp your foot! (I > know...easier said than done!) > (Just off the cuff, here....) But, consider...or try this: > > Robert Monroe described this "realm" of the nasties, the Evil, and the > Tormentors... as being closely associated with the physical realm. Which > makes sense, to me! You are initially entering the very first realm, with > your onset of OOBE. Ignore them... and DON'T struggle! (Mentally, or > physically!) Picture these tormentors of your's to be in... layer #1. You > must float upward through them, and on into layer #2. They will be > attracted by your own fear...and attracted by your struggle! So, Don't. > Just float through that layer...and don't attract attention! Monroe > described it.... as if he were a worm floating upwards through the water. A > few "tormentors" would look at him, yes... but if he didn't "move", they > were not particularly interested in him! If he panicked though...and > struggled.... (wiggled like a worried worm!)... then an entire barrage of > tormentors would be immediately after him!!! With practice, Monroe said,.. > he was able to learn to float quickly through the area without incident. > > Try this, Lorene. These tormentors *are* trapped in a singular band of the > astral, just next to the physical one. They cannot get out.... but *you* > can! (This is actually why they're after you!) They are feeding on your > fear...holding you to this realm! So, don't struggle. Relax. Ignore. > *Know* that beyond them...is your own freedom! Float through! When you get > past... *then* you can laugh at them!! :) > > Just some thoughts... hope it helped! > > B.D. > > > > > > > > ###### From: Haunter@castles.com (Haunter) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 00:20:57 GMT Organization: A.S.I./Psi -App/WCS Lines: 49 Message-ID: <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-665.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.online.no!newsfeed.online.no!uio.no!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gblx.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!cyclone.bc.net!HSNX.atgi.net!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!207.211.168.17!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47421 On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:03:25 -0500, "B.D. Yager" wrote: snipped >> oooh Bruce, that's scary. Reminds me of the movie "Poltergeist". >> >> I can understand why people would believe that the soul is leaving the >body >> and encountering other "spirits" .... but how could these spirits cause >> harm? I mean .. what kind of harm could they possibly cause in a non >> physical environment? >> >> > > >Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! The >fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of eternal >torment by them.. or, total extinction? So, who wants to chance it???? >"Fear" is real... so there must be a just reason for it. Even the >Angels...encountering Humans,... first said "Fear Not".! If there were no >basis for the fear... why would it be mentioned? Hmmmmm????? > >B.D. > > Hi Bruce: The fear is caused by not understanding the dynamics of the experience. When a person cannot move and breathing becomes difficult, alarm bells go off. Under those circumstances, the mind plays tricks on you. Period. That's all it is. You are trying to inject an explanation that has no evidence to back it up. Even worse, you are trying to perpetuate a long misunderstood experience in the face of new and overwhelming evidence to the contrary. By understanding the psychological dynamics of the physical state that makes up the sleep paralysis experience, you find that the fear is baseless and then it disappears, as soon as the individual anticipates and compensates for it. Knowledge is, indeed, the antidote for fear. What's -really- scaring me here is that you are starting to sound like Fitzsimons! -- Haunter: Cognitive Dissident White Crow Society:Knowledge is the Antidote for Fear http://www.whitecrowsociety.com New Double CD of casefiles, now available Sign up now for 3 new WCS on-line classes in Intro., Medical and In-field Parapsychology ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 182 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: /wLibFDfVM70mj2ar7voiQcvUXRDRta3rTNt1x83ziB64F7ebHLtgl1xa8YV6nvTDQqm6RNLvlov!MeILjZr0imJKVgh3w0764ok09XpuyGv7urz4U/3Lgc5e2h2X0ROK9D3cKsJbMu7aIaNkhRp852SJ!3Du4s8IR2pM= X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 03:07:53 GMT Distribution: world Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 03:07:54 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47451 B.D. Yager wrote in message ... > >Trish wrote in message >news:1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net... >> >> B.D. Yager wrote in message ... >> > >> >lorz wrote in message >> >news:WTpa5.3586$fh7.42267@news2.atl... >> >> >> >> Sherilyn <582@sherilyn.org.uk> wrote in message >> >> <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com>... >> >> :In article , "lorz" says... >> >> :> >> >> :>Well, I hate to get back to the fear thing but last night I had that >> >> :>spontaneous SP-OOBE. All I can say is : UGH! >> >> :> >> >> :>There is a definite difference in these spontaneous experiences than >in >> >> the >> >> :>others. I do believe that the experiences where I fly and try to go >see >> >> :>people here on the NG or just have flown around my neighborhood etc >are >> >> some >> >> :>sort of lucid dreams. >> >> :>Now last night upon going to bed (my spontaneous ones *always* happen >> >when >> >> I >> >> :>first go to bed) I was alert, felt as if I hadn't even fallen asleep >> yet >> >> :>when *boom* I am in the paralysis stage. I start to go with it by >> moving >> >> my >> >> :>hand out. I see my 'other' (astral? for lack of a better word) move >out >> >of >> >> :>my 'physical' hand. I turn to my side (not my physical me) I peek out >, >> >> see >> >> :>the room around me. >> >> :>Here comes *it* and it's brought a few friends! Really now, the fear >> is >> >> :>back at this point. I sense it around me. I am still just peeking out >> of >> >> my >> >> :>'astral' eyes and seeing images that scare me. Dark looming images. I >> >> start >> >> :>to kick my astral legs rapidly trying to wake my physical body, I >reach >> >> over >> >> :>and grab my beau's hand and squeeze it tight but he doesn't wake up. >> >> :>Anyway this goes on for a while until I finally do get back in. It is >> >very >> >> :>different from the lucid dream type OBE's and I really don't believe >I >> >> will >> >> :>ever get past that point. >> >> : >> >> :I wonder if the huge difference is simply your greater awareness of >your >> >> body >> >> :and its state of paralysis. Sleep paralysis has a very bad reputation >> >for >> >> :making scary experiences, and is thought to be the state in which some >> >> so-called >> >> :"alien abduction" experiences are played out. In a normal lucid dream >> >> you're >> >> :largely unaware of your physical body, but what awareness does remain >> >seems >> >> to >> >> :get integrated into the dream. >> >> >> >> Well I know I am very aware of my physical and what seems like my non >> >> physical body in my SP-OBE experiences. In my lucid dream OBE >experiences >> >I >> >> am not aware of my physical body but not even that aware of my non >> >physical >> >> one, it's more of a 'dream' where I am aware of dreaming. In OOBE it >isnt >> >an >> >> awareness of dreaming...it just feels more of a happening. Like >something >> >is >> >> actually occuring without falling to sleep. >> >> >> > >> > >> >Hi Lorene! I'm sorry to hear that you're still encountering your >> "ugghhhs"! >> >But I believe, that by giving them mental focus... you are inviting them! >> >Keeping them, and attracting them! The surest way to keep a dog from >> >nipping at your heels, is to turn around and face it! Stomp your foot! >(I >> >know...easier said than done!) >> >(Just off the cuff, here....) But, consider...or try this: >> > >> >Robert Monroe described this "realm" of the nasties, the Evil, and the >> >Tormentors... as being closely associated with the physical realm. Which >> >makes sense, to me! You are initially entering the very first realm, >with >> >your onset of OOBE. Ignore them... and DON'T struggle! (Mentally, or >> >physically!) Picture these tormentors of your's to be in... layer #1. >You >> >must float upward through them, and on into layer #2. They will be >> >attracted by your own fear...and attracted by your struggle! So, Don't. >> >Just float through that layer...and don't attract attention! Monroe >> >described it.... as if he were a worm floating upwards through the water. >> A >> >few "tormentors" would look at him, yes... but if he didn't "move", they >> >were not particularly interested in him! If he panicked though...and >> >struggled.... (wiggled like a worried worm!)... then an entire barrage of >> >tormentors would be immediately after him!!! With practice, Monroe >said,.. >> >he was able to learn to float quickly through the area without incident. >> > >> >Try this, Lorene. These tormentors *are* trapped in a singular band of >the >> >astral, just next to the physical one. They cannot get out.... but *you* >> >can! (This is actually why they're after you!) They are feeding on your >> >fear...holding you to this realm! So, don't struggle. Relax. Ignore. >> >*Know* that beyond them...is your own freedom! Float through! When you >> get >> >past... *then* you can laugh at them!! :) >> > >> >Just some thoughts... hope it helped! >> > >> >B.D. >> >> >> oooh Bruce, that's scary. Reminds me of the movie "Poltergeist". >> >> I can understand why people would believe that the soul is leaving the >body >> and encountering other "spirits" .... but how could these spirits cause >> harm? I mean .. what kind of harm could they possibly cause in a non >> physical environment? >> >> > > >Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! The >fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of eternal >torment by them.. or, total extinction? So, who wants to chance it???? >"Fear" is real... so there must be a just reason for it. Even the >Angels...encountering Humans,... first said "Fear Not".! If there were no >basis for the fear... why would it be mentioned? Hmmmmm????? > >B.D. It's a fear of the unknown. And it can be a good thing. It's an instinctual response that has always protected us. But just because the fear is real, doesn't mean that there is always something to fear. The two don't necessarily go hand in hand, and I'm afraid if it did, not much progress would ever be made. Bruce my dearest ... since I was a child, I haven't come across anything that could ever cause me harm. Not to say that the effort wasn't there. : ) ###### From: "dorothy dunne" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 22:47:20 -0700 Lines: 67 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 NNTP-Posting-Host: sanduser1034.bossig.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: sanduser1034.bossig.com Message-ID: <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> X-Trace: 16 Jul 2000 23:35:30 -0500, sanduser1034.bossig.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@newsnerds.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!news-out.uswest.net!uunet!chi.uu.net!dfw.uu.net!news-out.newsnerds.com!sanduser1034.bossig.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47431 Haunter wrote in message news:39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com... > On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:03:25 -0500, "B.D. Yager" > wrote: > > snipped > >> oooh Bruce, that's scary. Reminds me of the movie "Poltergeist". > >> > >> I can understand why people would believe that the soul is leaving the > >body > >> and encountering other "spirits" .... but how could these spirits cause > >> harm? I mean .. what kind of harm could they possibly cause in a non > >> physical environment? > >> > > > >Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! The > >fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of eternal > >torment by them.. or, total extinction? So, who wants to chance it???? > >"Fear" is real... so there must be a just reason for it. Even the > >Angels...encountering Humans,... first said "Fear Not".! If there were no > >basis for the fear... why would it be mentioned? Hmmmmm????? > > > >B.D. > > > > > Hi Bruce: > The fear is caused by not understanding the dynamics of the > experience. When a person cannot move and breathing becomes difficult, > alarm bells go off. Under those circumstances, the mind plays tricks > on you. Period. That's all it is. > You are trying to inject an explanation that has no evidence to back > it up. Even worse, you are trying to perpetuate a long misunderstood > experience in the face of new and overwhelming evidence to the > contrary. > By understanding the psychological dynamics of the physical state that > makes up the sleep paralysis experience, you find that the fear is > baseless and then it disappears, as soon as the individual anticipates > and compensates for it. Knowledge is, indeed, the antidote for fear. > What's -really- scaring me here is that you are starting to sound like > Fitzsimons! Hi Haunter and all, Well, no doubt everybody has their own unique 'take' on this sort of thing. What is slightly more troubling to me is that the skeptical or practical minded attitude seems to be that the world is going to come to an end if any sort of woo woo ideas are given the least credibility! Ironically, the advice you and Bruce give is actually quite similar. Bruce just suggests employing imagery to "move past it" (which could be useful to Lorene as her experiences are so vivid as to be indistinguishable from reality), while you suggest that she might convince herself that there is nothing to fear because the fear is caused by the experience. (IOWs, "so, get over it" or "move past it", just as Bruce says...). What I'm wondering is how you can be so sure that Lorene's fear is caused by not understanding the experience? The root of Lorene's fear could well be anything at all. I think that knowledge *can* be an 'antidote' for fear, but this knowledge of yours, Haunter, may be too generic to be of any use to Lorene. I think she's just going to have to figure out for herself what the fear really is, then the problem will probably begin to resolve itself. But if she can't grok for herself the root cause of her fear, then all advice will be moot. Regards to all, Dorothy ###### From: "dorothy dunne" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <396A681C.4817@not-here.net> <396A8962.FDC@not-here.net> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 23:08:02 -0700 Lines: 45 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 NNTP-Posting-Host: sanduser1034.bossig.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: sanduser1034.bossig.com Message-ID: <397291f4@news-out.newsnerds.com> X-Trace: 16 Jul 2000 23:56:20 -0500, sanduser1034.bossig.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@newsnerds.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newscore.gigabell.net!news-fra.pop.de!ams.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!chi.uu.net!sea.uu.net!dfw.uu.net!news-out.newsnerds.com!sanduser1034.bossig.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47433 Janice wrote in message news:396A8962.FDC@not-here.net... > Lorz wrote: > > > > Janice wrote in message > > news:396A681C.4817@not-here.net... > > > : Have you tried asking "it" what the heck it wants from you? Some people > > : report that they get a little self-improvement spiel from their dream or > > : SP enemy and then it goes away never to return. > > > > Nope, I havent asked anything. It's hard to explain this overwhelming fear > > in these particular OBE's. It isn't like I can't think about anything but > > making sure I get my physical body to realize I am there. All I can think is > > please get up... please get up. It's wierd to do this kicking and reaching > > and nothing is really happening in the physical. I can't say I like it ya > > know? > > Maybe you need to work on it in waking. Have you tried imagining > yourself dealing handily with "it" (by whatever means you prefer) to try > to prime your mind to repeat your success during an actual SP incident? Hi Janice, hi Lorene, I'm inclined to agree with your advice here, Janice. I would just add that the confrontation might have more "oomph" as a sort of "dream incubation" if Lorene were to attempt it during a deeper meditative state. (IOWs, Lorene, imagine it as vividly as you are able, without triggering an actual OBE). I'd also be more inclined to "dialogue" with the creatures and ask them what they want, or what they represent... Good luck, Lorene Dorothy ###### Message-ID: <3972DB08.20D2@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 05:05:47 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-PXSZcLAPeWsvuKCdOrpS/5rwz7lwEQZkCvOGPu11ISTgTDIx19/ckb3qq0mpZ7xETsuU6kwnR3zAxr0!1hdCXyHWMZNWGQmGKLgGE4oZ+Q== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 06:08:08 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!portc03.blue.aol.com!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47392 Trish wrote: > > I can understand why people would believe that the soul is leaving the body > and encountering other "spirits" .... but how could these spirits cause > harm? I mean .. what kind of harm could they possibly cause in a non > physical environment? Scare you is about all. So don't allow it. :) ###### Message-ID: <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 07:36:40 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-k2c0Dg3ocpGjQ19q2uNk1KatvHdPZ7jD6BZU7lNuu58EucR6y14IQ2ZDWMcm25lzijF5YH6wTjNZLga!JT3CypE/6WPO9kKCRPqvQaGRB6I= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 08:38:56 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47395 dorothy dunne wrote: > > Hi Haunter and all, > Well, no doubt everybody has their own unique 'take' on this sort of thing. > What is slightly more troubling to me is that the skeptical or practical > minded attitude seems to be that the world is going to come to an end if any > sort of woo woo ideas are given the least credibility! Ironically, the > advice you and Bruce give is actually quite similar. Bruce just suggests > employing imagery to "move past it" (which could be useful to Lorene as her > experiences are so vivid as to be indistinguishable from reality), while you > suggest that she might convince herself that there is nothing to fear > because the fear is caused by the experience. (IOWs, "so, get over it" or > "move past it", just as Bruce says...). Somehow I don't think that a scary statement like: "Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! The fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of eternal torment by them.. or, total extinction?" is going to help anyone move past their fear .... ###### From: Haunter@castles.com (Haunter) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 13:03:11 GMT Organization: A.S.I./Psi -App/WCS Lines: 41 Message-ID: <397703c0.49944021@cnews.newsguy.com> References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-422.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47424 On Mon, 17 Jul 2000 08:38:56 -0400, Janice wrote: >dorothy dunne wrote: >> >> Hi Haunter and all, >> Well, no doubt everybody has their own unique 'take' on this sort of thing. >> What is slightly more troubling to me is that the skeptical or practical >> minded attitude seems to be that the world is going to come to an end if any >> sort of woo woo ideas are given the least credibility! Ironically, the >> advice you and Bruce give is actually quite similar. Bruce just suggests >> employing imagery to "move past it" (which could be useful to Lorene as her >> experiences are so vivid as to be indistinguishable from reality), while you >> suggest that she might convince herself that there is nothing to fear >> because the fear is caused by the experience. (IOWs, "so, get over it" or >> "move past it", just as Bruce says...). > >Somehow I don't think that a scary statement like: > >"Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! >The fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of >eternal torment by them.. or, total extinction?" > >is going to help anyone move past their fear .... Agreed; if he's just left it at the "Monroe" stage of things, I'd not have bothered. Mornin' Dorothy! Mornin' DreamQueen! Mornin' BD Mornin' Lorz Mornin' All :-) -- Haunter: Cognitive Dissident White Crow Society:Knowledge is the Antidote for Fear http://www.whitecrowsociety.com New Double CD of casefiles, now available Sign up now for 3 new WCS on-line classes in Intro., Medical and In-field Parapsychology ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: 17 Jul 2000 21:21:56 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 71 Message-ID: <6upuoch8a3.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 963861716 405 10.0.3.2 (17 Jul 2000 19:21:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jul 2000 19:21:56 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47460 Haunter@castles.com (Haunter) writes: > On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:03:25 -0500, "B.D. Yager" > wrote: > > snipped > >> oooh Bruce, that's scary. Reminds me of the movie "Poltergeist". > >> > >> I can understand why people would believe that the soul is leaving the > >body > >> and encountering other "spirits" .... but how could these spirits cause > >> harm? I mean .. what kind of harm could they possibly cause in a non > >> physical environment? They can induce fear. That can stop you from OBEing. Definitely harmfull to your OBE career :-). > >fear *is* very real... Just as fear of a dog is real. Just that dogs can bite in the physical world. And that physical bites are harmfull. Astral bites aren't. > > and, I suspect... even the possibility of eternal > >torment by them.. I would strongly doubt that any state is eternal. Long lasting (by the clock of externals), but not forever. > > or, total extinction? Soul extinction? Has anyone ever observed that? > >"Fear" is real... so there must be a just reason for it. Even the Claustrophobia is real. The imagined danger that leads to it is not. > >Angels...encountering Humans,... first said "Fear Not".! If there were no > >basis for the fear... why would it be mentioned? Hmmmmm????? They say "fear not" to get rid of the (unjustified) fear of the humans. Has to do with the fear _existing_, not with the fear _being_justified_. > experience. When a person cannot move and breathing becomes difficult, > alarm bells go off. By triggers set from physical world experiences, which are not astral world relevant. > Under those circumstances, the mind plays tricks > on you. Period. That's all it is. Exactly. > and compensates for it. Knowledge is, indeed, the antidote for fear. > What's -really- scaring me here is that you are starting to sound like > Fitzsimons! Now that is a scary observation! Now I fear visiting the group :-). -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: evnshli@nevermind.net (eve nshali) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 22:22:27 GMT Message-ID: <3973849b.7071664@news.dingoblue.net.au> References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <396A681C.4817@not-here.net> <396A8962.FDC@not-here.net> <397291f4@news-out.newsnerds.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 61 NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.142.152.178 X-Trace: 963872548 news01.syd.optusnet.com.au 11186 198.142.152.178 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news1.mpx.com.au.MISMATCH!news01.syd.optusnet.com.au!nnrp01.syd.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47481 On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 23:08:02 -0700, "dorothy dunne" wrote: >Janice wrote in message >news:396A8962.FDC@not-here.net... >> Lorz wrote: >> > >> > Janice wrote in message >> > news:396A681C.4817@not-here.net... >> >> > : Have you tried asking "it" what the heck it wants from you? Some >people >> > : report that they get a little self-improvement spiel from their dream >or >> > : SP enemy and then it goes away never to return. >> > >> > Nope, I havent asked anything. It's hard to explain this overwhelming >fear >> > in these particular OBE's. It isn't like I can't think about anything >but >> > making sure I get my physical body to realize I am there. All I can >think is >> > please get up... please get up. It's wierd to do this kicking and >reaching >> > and nothing is really happening in the physical. I can't say I like it >ya >> > know? >> >> Maybe you need to work on it in waking. Have you tried imagining >> yourself dealing handily with "it" (by whatever means you prefer) to try >> to prime your mind to repeat your success during an actual SP incident? > >Hi Janice, hi Lorene, > >I'm inclined to agree with your advice here, Janice. I would just add that >the confrontation might have more "oomph" as a sort of "dream incubation" if >Lorene were to attempt it during a deeper meditative state. (IOWs, Lorene, >imagine it as vividly as you are able, without triggering an actual OBE). > >I'd also be more inclined to "dialogue" with the creatures and ask them what >they want, or what they represent... > >Good luck, Lorene >Dorothy > > When I was last into obes I had a scary being who wore a dark metallic cloak with a hood and no face. He carried a whip with thongs of chain. I made myself hold the image in my mind when not attempting obes. I asked what he wanted repeatedly. After a few times of this he said he was there to protect me but I didn't believe it. I said he wasn't real and couldn't do anything to me. He started thrashing me. After that I bought a sheet of black paper and using pastels, drew him. I put it up and sat looking at it, forcing it to change into a friendly creature (I have a strong imagination and could "see" this change occur). I told him he could only hang out with me if he wanted to come along and enjoy the ride. He did and soon dwindled into nothing. I saw it as a part of myself but at first, because of what I'd read I wondered if beings like this were real. I still don't know but I think you can handle these things in similar ways to what I did and get a result that you're happy with. ###### From: "dorothy dunne" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2000 17:17:05 -0700 Lines: 42 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 NNTP-Posting-Host: sanduser1020.bossig.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: sanduser1020.bossig.com Message-ID: <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com> X-Trace: 17 Jul 2000 18:05:09 -0500, sanduser1020.bossig.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@newsnerds.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!easynews!uunet!dfw.uu.net!news-out.newsnerds.com!sanduser1020.bossig.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47476 Janice wrote in message news:3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net... > dorothy dunne wrote: > > > > Hi Haunter and all, > > Well, no doubt everybody has their own unique 'take' on this sort of thing. > > What is slightly more troubling to me is that the skeptical or practical > > minded attitude seems to be that the world is going to come to an end if any > > sort of woo woo ideas are given the least credibility! Ironically, the > > advice you and Bruce give is actually quite similar. Bruce just suggests > > employing imagery to "move past it" (which could be useful to Lorene as her > > experiences are so vivid as to be indistinguishable from reality), while you > > suggest that she might convince herself that there is nothing to fear > > because the fear is caused by the experience. (IOWs, "so, get over it" or > > "move past it", just as Bruce says...). > > Somehow I don't think that a scary statement like: > > "Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! > The fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of > eternal torment by them.. or, total extinction?" > > is going to help anyone move past their fear .... Hmm, well, I actually had Bruce's top post in mind when I was speaking of "useful" advice, but you're right that this particular quotation could be alarming to someone who takes it literally. OTOH, I think Lorene (and everybody?) realizes that Bruce tends to be a little melodramatic. Even so, there is still the kernel of truth in what Bruce says, in that the "fear" - whatever its source - *is* real. To say that Lorene's fear is seated in the experience itself, and is therefore "baseless", may not be particularly reassuring, especially when so many others have experienced SP and associated symptoms without any fear whatsoever. This is what makes me think that only Lorene can determine the root cause, by perhaps using the visualization technique that you suggested. ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <6upuoch8a3.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 79 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: <7AOc5.1239$Zw4.207004@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> X-Trace: +Sz2ra30QM14Y4KZNpV+Sknm2fucWib2XvVy/1oficrJqOV+o6BPxKbciyxLjVjoETM7M+nRzJ7u!OTSGIFw2lgBqGFT1iaQG/ropKb7ZtH0H3E23kyyMfyhxnlnfBvZBiVy5D4fu9tXhTyG2Nv1WYwab!4vWGEQE= X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:40:19 GMT Distribution: world Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:40:19 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47488 Neil Franklin wrote in message <6upuoch8a3.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>... >Haunter@castles.com (Haunter) writes: > >> On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:03:25 -0500, "B.D. Yager" >> wrote: >> >> snipped >> >> oooh Bruce, that's scary. Reminds me of the movie "Poltergeist". >> >> >> >> I can understand why people would believe that the soul is leaving the >> >body >> >> and encountering other "spirits" .... but how could these spirits cause >> >> harm? I mean .. what kind of harm could they possibly cause in a non >> >> physical environment? > >They can induce fear. That can stop you from OBEing. Definitely >harmfull to your OBE career :-). > > >> >fear *is* very real... > >Just as fear of a dog is real. Just that dogs can bite in the physical >world. And that physical bites are harmfull. Astral bites aren't. > > >> > and, I suspect... even the possibility of eternal >> >torment by them.. > >I would strongly doubt that any state is eternal. Long lasting (by the >clock of externals), but not forever. > > >> > or, total extinction? > >Soul extinction? Has anyone ever observed that? > > >> >"Fear" is real... so there must be a just reason for it. Even the > >Claustrophobia is real. The imagined danger that leads to it is not. > > >> >Angels...encountering Humans,... first said "Fear Not".! If there were no >> >basis for the fear... why would it be mentioned? Hmmmmm????? > >They say "fear not" to get rid of the (unjustified) fear of the humans. >Has to do with the fear _existing_, not with the fear _being_justified_. > > >> experience. When a person cannot move and breathing becomes difficult, >> alarm bells go off. > >By triggers set from physical world experiences, which are not astral >world relevant. > > >> Under those circumstances, the mind plays tricks >> on you. Period. That's all it is. > >Exactly. > > >> and compensates for it. Knowledge is, indeed, the antidote for fear. >> What's -really- scaring me here is that you are starting to sound like >> Fitzsimons! > >Now that is a scary observation! Now I fear visiting the group :-). Sometimes the idea of fear is worse than the fear itself. One of the ways I have gotten over my own fear has been by accepting the fact that I will feel it, and then realizing that fear alone was never a good enough reason not to do something. ###### Message-ID: <3973E783.26DF@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 51 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 00:11:17 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-1Etyu9kilvt8T2osD5cxZkAsk2NYbfG2d+P/zAP9pxJhhRqcHmgASnpvDnKV9B5Sts/QDJN3kJ/nhkc!8yfrnm+RYf9FwZuFyIToPONlnGE= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 01:13:39 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.online.no!newsfeed.online.no!news.powertech.no!uninett.no!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news5.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47464 dorothy dunne wrote: > > Janice wrote in message > news:3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net... > > dorothy dunne wrote: > > > > > > Hi Haunter and all, > > > Well, no doubt everybody has their own unique 'take' on this sort of > thing. > > > What is slightly more troubling to me is that the skeptical or practical > > > minded attitude seems to be that the world is going to come to an end if > any > > > sort of woo woo ideas are given the least credibility! Ironically, the > > > advice you and Bruce give is actually quite similar. Bruce just suggests > > > employing imagery to "move past it" (which could be useful to Lorene as > her > > > experiences are so vivid as to be indistinguishable from reality), while > you > > > suggest that she might convince herself that there is nothing to fear > > > because the fear is caused by the experience. (IOWs, "so, get over it" > or > > > "move past it", just as Bruce says...). > > > > Somehow I don't think that a scary statement like: > > > > "Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! > > The fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of > > eternal torment by them.. or, total extinction?" > > > > is going to help anyone move past their fear .... > > Hmm, well, I actually had Bruce's top post in mind when I was speaking of > "useful" advice, but you're right that this particular quotation could be > alarming to someone who takes it literally. OTOH, I think Lorene (and > everybody?) realizes that Bruce tends to be a little melodramatic. Yes, he can be. But I think that kind of statement could work on a person's suggestibility when in the state in question even if they think they have countered for it rationally in waking.... > Even so, > there is still the kernel of truth in what Bruce says, in that the "fear" - > whatever its source - *is* real. To say that Lorene's fear is seated in the > experience itself, and is therefore "baseless", may not be particularly > reassuring, especially when so many others have experienced SP and > associated symptoms without any fear whatsoever. This is what makes me think > that only Lorene can determine the root cause, by perhaps using the > visualization technique that you suggested. I think it's her best option, since she can't seem to control herself when in the grip of the SP. ###### From: Sherilyn <582@sherilyn.org.uk> Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: 18 Jul 2000 02:45:05 -0700 Organization: Extra Newsguy News Service [http://extra.newsguy.com] Lines: 33 Message-ID: <8l18v1$1d0q@edrn.newsguy.com> References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-047.newsdawg.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!edrn Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47471 In article <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com>, "dorothy says... > [...] > >Hmm, well, I actually had Bruce's top post in mind when I was speaking of >"useful" advice, but you're right that this particular quotation could be >alarming to someone who takes it literally. OTOH, I think Lorene (and >everybody?) realizes that Bruce tends to be a little melodramatic. Agreed. We take our past experience into account and, coming from Bruce, the words are not so alarming as they might be (they certainly were not intended to alarm). > Even so, >there is still the kernel of truth in what Bruce says, in that the "fear" - >whatever its source - *is* real. To say that Lorene's fear is seated in the >experience itself, and is therefore "baseless", may not be particularly >reassuring, especially when so many others have experienced SP and >associated symptoms without any fear whatsoever. This is what makes me think >that only Lorene can determine the root cause, by perhaps using the >visualization technique that you suggested. > > I for one have absolutely no trouble imagining how alarming the experiences Lorene describes can be. I've been spooked a few times in real life when I had my full wits about me, so can well understand how terrifying an experience of sleep paralysis can be. -- Email handle is time-encoded to foil spammers. Use recent handles only. Filter on domain name only. http://www.sherilyn.org.uk/ ###### Message-ID: <39748213.4049@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3973E783.26DF@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 51 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:10:46 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-VYah01D0BkHuLln8FJF0HB8afB6FJhJmJM27naeC2IajWhc6WOvOKF90FlOCk2O3TUMrxzb1lbbPNmz!7xzORTYz927Y4irSRsPW2qaDi7c= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:13:07 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47502 Janice wrote: > > dorothy dunne wrote: > > > > Janice wrote in message > > news:3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net... > > > > > > Somehow I don't think that a scary statement like: > > > > > > "Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! > > > The fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of > > > eternal torment by them.. or, total extinction?" > > > > > > is going to help anyone move past their fear .... > > > > Hmm, well, I actually had Bruce's top post in mind when I was speaking of > > "useful" advice, but you're right that this particular quotation could be > > alarming to someone who takes it literally. OTOH, I think Lorene (and > > everybody?) realizes that Bruce tends to be a little melodramatic. > > Yes, he can be. But I think that kind of statement could work on a > person's suggestibility when in the state in question even if they think > they have countered for it rationally in waking.... > > > Even so, > > there is still the kernel of truth in what Bruce says, in that the "fear" - > > whatever its source - *is* real. To say that Lorene's fear is seated in the > > experience itself, and is therefore "baseless", may not be particularly > > reassuring, especially when so many others have experienced SP and > > associated symptoms without any fear whatsoever. This is what makes me think > > that only Lorene can determine the root cause, by perhaps using the > > visualization technique that you suggested. > > I think it's her best option, since she can't seem to control herself > when in the grip of the SP. Just out of curiosity, do you personally know of anyone who ditched a recurrent negative dream character using the "what is it you want of me" dialogue and "here's a hug" techniques? I know they are recommended by some therapeutically minded people, but my friend and I have tried them on regular one-shot negative dream characters for the most part without positive results, including being met with cold indifference and being told snide things like "I want to go to bed with you." Oh, and as for finding the statement that the fear is stated in the experience itself reassuring, don't forget that Lorene specifically asked Haunter and myself to state that position firmly, to reinforce her courage. I experienced frightening SP incidents complete with gobbling voices, mocking faces, buzzing noises, and pain in my jaw for years until I finally got a grip on my fear and learned not to panic and struggle to wake up, which eliminated all the unpleasant side effects. ###### Message-ID: <3974825D.474C@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3973E783.26DF@not-here.net> <39748213.4049@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 5 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:11:59 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-jq7y7FAZqS999kD5n0uNaIKUj8CxPCuYjbt7y0/ZsGC52sJd7F4KXAkebqNV8bAwTL/pGJLpogWb34H!wTRPVlEsKyFskUMN6RPoU6BEbw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:14:21 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!portc03.blue.aol.com!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47461 Janice wrote: > Oh, and as for finding the statement that the fear is stated "rooted," sorry ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3973E783.26DF@not-here.net> <39748213.4049@not-here.net> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 70 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: +SWaIpByviRCvDOwNJyBzT3IwAsLrCVaMyThz1JMk8pa+UhIzmubkR1nEGYT0Z0E46nNs01wLrd5!a2aIDumm8lG9bmcB0A6uIpsbBRR8gjfOmhYVfZM1d/Dq9W9KaRl95HW11DCSMRlXs/wKPwptB3ZC!44Lzbw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:31:02 GMT Distribution: world Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:31:03 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47487 Janice wrote in message <39748213.4049@not-here.net>... >Janice wrote: >> >> dorothy dunne wrote: >> > >> > Janice wrote in message >> > news:3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net... >> > > >> > > Somehow I don't think that a scary statement like: >> > > >> > > "Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! >> > > The fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of >> > > eternal torment by them.. or, total extinction?" >> > > >> > > is going to help anyone move past their fear .... >> > >> > Hmm, well, I actually had Bruce's top post in mind when I was speaking of >> > "useful" advice, but you're right that this particular quotation could be >> > alarming to someone who takes it literally. OTOH, I think Lorene (and >> > everybody?) realizes that Bruce tends to be a little melodramatic. >> >> Yes, he can be. But I think that kind of statement could work on a >> person's suggestibility when in the state in question even if they think >> they have countered for it rationally in waking.... >> >> > Even so, >> > there is still the kernel of truth in what Bruce says, in that the "fear" - >> > whatever its source - *is* real. To say that Lorene's fear is seated in the >> > experience itself, and is therefore "baseless", may not be particularly >> > reassuring, especially when so many others have experienced SP and >> > associated symptoms without any fear whatsoever. This is what makes me think >> > that only Lorene can determine the root cause, by perhaps using the >> > visualization technique that you suggested. >> >> I think it's her best option, since she can't seem to control herself >> when in the grip of the SP. > >Just out of curiosity, do you personally know of anyone who ditched a >recurrent negative dream character using the "what is it you want of me" >dialogue and "here's a hug" techniques? I know they are recommended by >some therapeutically minded people, but my friend and I have tried them >on regular one-shot negative dream characters for the most part without >positive results, including being met with cold indifference and being >told snide things like "I want to go to bed with you." I've diffused a stalker with the hug approach. He was at first, confused, and then defensively told me that he wasn't stalking me, but just wanted to talk to me. This was after he grabbed my leg and pulled me out from a bathroom stall .. hahah. He never did talk to me though ... just went away. >Oh, and as for finding the statement that the fear is stated in the >experience itself reassuring, don't forget that Lorene specifically >asked Haunter and myself to state that position firmly, to reinforce her >courage. I experienced frightening SP incidents complete with gobbling >voices, mocking faces, buzzing noises, and pain in my jaw for years >until I finally got a grip on my fear and learned not to panic and >struggle to wake up, which eliminated all the unpleasant side effects. It's easier if we can train ourselves to be proactive rather than reactive. Not so easy to do, but it can be done. ###### Message-ID: <397488CA.1D74@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3973E783.26DF@not-here.net> <39748213.4049@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 78 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 11:39:25 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-6tied99Q3WZTET7nWCq+K6nIK50JbTosP0b9eivoPZ8PFTe4VLFj+fuxou8Y1qzp3D/bQbTjB+sZrLQ!Q/eFd8/z+WsoMcknIlrucaOrrNU= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 12:41:46 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47463 Trish wrote: > > Janice wrote in message <39748213.4049@not-here.net>... > >Janice wrote: > >> > >> dorothy dunne wrote: > >> > > >> > Janice wrote in message > >> > news:3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net... > >> > > > >> > > Somehow I don't think that a scary statement like: > >> > > > >> > > "Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or > acknowledge! > >> > > The fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of > >> > > eternal torment by them.. or, total extinction?" > >> > > > >> > > is going to help anyone move past their fear .... > >> > > >> > Hmm, well, I actually had Bruce's top post in mind when I was speaking > of > >> > "useful" advice, but you're right that this particular quotation could > be > >> > alarming to someone who takes it literally. OTOH, I think Lorene (and > >> > everybody?) realizes that Bruce tends to be a little melodramatic. > >> > >> Yes, he can be. But I think that kind of statement could work on a > >> person's suggestibility when in the state in question even if they think > >> they have countered for it rationally in waking.... > >> > >> > Even so, > >> > there is still the kernel of truth in what Bruce says, in that the > "fear" - > >> > whatever its source - *is* real. To say that Lorene's fear is seated in > the > >> > experience itself, and is therefore "baseless", may not be particularly > >> > reassuring, especially when so many others have experienced SP and > >> > associated symptoms without any fear whatsoever. This is what makes me > think > >> > that only Lorene can determine the root cause, by perhaps using the > >> > visualization technique that you suggested. > >> > >> I think it's her best option, since she can't seem to control herself > >> when in the grip of the SP. > > > >Just out of curiosity, do you personally know of anyone who ditched a > >recurrent negative dream character using the "what is it you want of me" > >dialogue and "here's a hug" techniques? I know they are recommended by > >some therapeutically minded people, but my friend and I have tried them > >on regular one-shot negative dream characters for the most part without > >positive results, including being met with cold indifference and being > >told snide things like "I want to go to bed with you." > > I've diffused a stalker with the hug approach. He was at first, confused, > and then defensively told me that he wasn't stalking me, but just wanted to > talk to me. This was after he grabbed my leg and pulled me out from a > bathroom stall .. hahah. He never did talk to me though ... just went > away. Yes, that's exactly the way I would expect it to work from the cases of mine where I've turned snarling dogs into slightly confused pets by hugging them and crooning to them as if they were pets - simply using controlled interpretation and controlled behavior as suggestions to influence characters, without any obvious psychodynamic effects or implications. > >Oh, and as for finding the statement that the fear is stated in the > >experience itself reassuring, don't forget that Lorene specifically > >asked Haunter and myself to state that position firmly, to reinforce her > >courage. I experienced frightening SP incidents complete with gobbling > >voices, mocking faces, buzzing noises, and pain in my jaw for years > >until I finally got a grip on my fear and learned not to panic and > >struggle to wake up, which eliminated all the unpleasant side effects. > > It's easier if we can train ourselves to be proactive rather than reactive. > Not so easy to do, but it can be done. Yep. ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 81 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:57:12 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.77.205.202 X-Trace: news4.atl 963943320 216.77.205.202 (Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:02:00 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:02:00 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.atl!news4.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47551 dorothy dunne wrote in message <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com>... :Haunter wrote in message :news:39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com... :> On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:03:25 -0500, "B.D. Yager" :> wrote: :> :> snipped :> >> oooh Bruce, that's scary. Reminds me of the movie "Poltergeist". :> >> :> >> I can understand why people would believe that the soul is leaving the :> >body :> >> and encountering other "spirits" .... but how could these spirits cause :> >> harm? I mean .. what kind of harm could they possibly cause in a non :> >> physical environment? :> >> :> > :> >Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! :The :> >fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of eternal :> >torment by them.. or, total extinction? So, who wants to chance it???? :> >"Fear" is real... so there must be a just reason for it. Even the :> >Angels...encountering Humans,... first said "Fear Not".! If there were :no :> >basis for the fear... why would it be mentioned? Hmmmmm????? :> > :> >B.D. :> > :> > :> Hi Bruce: :> The fear is caused by not understanding the dynamics of the :> experience. When a person cannot move and breathing becomes difficult, :> alarm bells go off. Under those circumstances, the mind plays tricks :> on you. Period. That's all it is. :> You are trying to inject an explanation that has no evidence to back :> it up. Even worse, you are trying to perpetuate a long misunderstood :> experience in the face of new and overwhelming evidence to the :> contrary. :> By understanding the psychological dynamics of the physical state that :> makes up the sleep paralysis experience, you find that the fear is :> baseless and then it disappears, as soon as the individual anticipates :> and compensates for it. Knowledge is, indeed, the antidote for fear. :> What's -really- scaring me here is that you are starting to sound like :> Fitzsimons! : :Hi Haunter and all, :Well, no doubt everybody has their own unique 'take' on this sort of thing. :What is slightly more troubling to me is that the skeptical or practical :minded attitude seems to be that the world is going to come to an end if any :sort of woo woo ideas are given the least credibility! Ironically, the :advice you and Bruce give is actually quite similar. Bruce just suggests :employing imagery to "move past it" (which could be useful to Lorene as her :experiences are so vivid as to be indistinguishable from reality), while you :suggest that she might convince herself that there is nothing to fear :because the fear is caused by the experience. (IOWs, "so, get over it" or :"move past it", just as Bruce says...). What I'm wondering is how you can be :so sure that Lorene's fear is caused by not understanding the experience? :The root of Lorene's fear could well be anything at all. I think that :knowledge *can* be an 'antidote' for fear, but this knowledge of yours, :Haunter, may be too generic to be of any use to Lorene. I think she's just :going to have to figure out for herself what the fear really is, then the :problem will probably begin to resolve itself. But if she can't grok for :herself the root cause of her fear, then all advice will be moot. That makes sense Dorothy. I think the fear is mostly the feeling of no control. When in that paralysis state of course I feel I have no control over my body which in a sense I really don't . Maybe I have this 'it' around to explain to my brain why I can't move because I never understood before why I couldn't move or speak or anything before. Now that I am getting a better understanding of the physiological (sp?) reasons of the paralysis I hope to get a grip on my 'it' and the fear. I just need to keep reassuring myself that these *are* the reasons and that I invented the 'it' to compensate for what was happening when I had no other explanation at the time. The loss of control is what I hate the most. ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3973E783.26DF@not-here.net> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 73 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:59:35 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.77.205.202 X-Trace: news4.atl 963943464 216.77.205.202 (Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:04:24 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:04:24 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.atl!news4.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47533 Janice wrote in message <3973E783.26DF@not-here.net>... :dorothy dunne wrote: :> :> Janice wrote in message :> news:3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net... :> > dorothy dunne wrote: :> > > :> > > Hi Haunter and all, :> > > Well, no doubt everybody has their own unique 'take' on this sort of :> thing. :> > > What is slightly more troubling to me is that the skeptical or practical :> > > minded attitude seems to be that the world is going to come to an end if :> any :> > > sort of woo woo ideas are given the least credibility! Ironically, the :> > > advice you and Bruce give is actually quite similar. Bruce just suggests :> > > employing imagery to "move past it" (which could be useful to Lorene as :> her :> > > experiences are so vivid as to be indistinguishable from reality), while :> you :> > > suggest that she might convince herself that there is nothing to fear :> > > because the fear is caused by the experience. (IOWs, "so, get over it" :> or :> > > "move past it", just as Bruce says...). :> > :> > Somehow I don't think that a scary statement like: :> > :> > "Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! :> > The fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of :> > eternal torment by them.. or, total extinction?" :> > :> > is going to help anyone move past their fear .... :> :> Hmm, well, I actually had Bruce's top post in mind when I was speaking of :> "useful" advice, but you're right that this particular quotation could be :> alarming to someone who takes it literally. OTOH, I think Lorene (and :> everybody?) realizes that Bruce tends to be a little melodramatic. : :Yes, he can be. But I think that kind of statement could work on a :person's suggestibility when in the state in question even if they think :they have countered for it rationally in waking.... Yes it sure can. : :> Even so, :> there is still the kernel of truth in what Bruce says, in that the "fear" - :> whatever its source - *is* real. To say that Lorene's fear is seated in the :> experience itself, and is therefore "baseless", may not be particularly :> reassuring, especially when so many others have experienced SP and :> associated symptoms without any fear whatsoever. This is what makes me think :> that only Lorene can determine the root cause, by perhaps using the :> visualization technique that you suggested. : :I think it's her best option, since she can't seem to control herself :when in the grip of the SP. agreed ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com> <8l18v1$1d0q@edrn.newsguy.com> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 48 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:03:48 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.77.205.202 X-Trace: news4.atl 963943716 216.77.205.202 (Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:08:36 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:08:36 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.atl!news4.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47520 Sherilyn <582@sherilyn.org.uk> wrote in message <8l18v1$1d0q@edrn.newsguy.com>... :In article <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com>, "dorothy says... :> :[...] :> :>Hmm, well, I actually had Bruce's top post in mind when I was speaking of :>"useful" advice, but you're right that this particular quotation could be :>alarming to someone who takes it literally. OTOH, I think Lorene (and :>everybody?) realizes that Bruce tends to be a little melodramatic. : :Agreed. We take our past experience into account and, coming from Bruce, the :words are not so alarming as they might be (they certainly were not intended to :alarm). : :> Even so, :>there is still the kernel of truth in what Bruce says, in that the "fear" - :>whatever its source - *is* real. To say that Lorene's fear is seated in the :>experience itself, and is therefore "baseless", may not be particularly :>reassuring, especially when so many others have experienced SP and :>associated symptoms without any fear whatsoever. This is what makes me think :>that only Lorene can determine the root cause, by perhaps using the :>visualization technique that you suggested. :> :> :I for one have absolutely no trouble imagining how alarming the experiences :Lorene describes can be. I've been spooked a few times in real life when I had :my full wits about me, so can well understand how terrifying an experience of :sleep paralysis can be. : :-- Well it helps knowing I am not the only one and that others have succeeded getting through SP by the methods described in previous post. As I said before it is the loss of control that I have come to realize that I hate the most. Thanks to all for all the imput! ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 93 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: 9/m6QylJKnkF+cu6T7euncAhK6yszGbB5jb+BcEsnBmVe9QzMmK+BiUl0K8XVhlSsCPoI2PP+VuW!iiuGpa/dHF+ec9kNzyPckwAJuDOZTD6PKl5UbfE6yKA94GeeErmPMyiCibi35aBVVcnaFaV6oZlx!Qg8aJuE= X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:17:59 GMT Distribution: world Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 18:17:59 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47640 lorz wrote in message ... > >dorothy dunne wrote in message <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com>... >:Haunter wrote in message >:news:39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com... >:> On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:03:25 -0500, "B.D. Yager" >:> wrote: >:> >:> snipped >:> >> oooh Bruce, that's scary. Reminds me of the movie "Poltergeist". >:> >> >:> >> I can understand why people would believe that the soul is leaving the >:> >body >:> >> and encountering other "spirits" .... but how could these spirits >cause >:> >> harm? I mean .. what kind of harm could they possibly cause in a non >:> >> physical environment? >:> >> >:> > >:> >Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! >:The >:> >fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of eternal >:> >torment by them.. or, total extinction? So, who wants to chance it???? >:> >"Fear" is real... so there must be a just reason for it. Even the >:> >Angels...encountering Humans,... first said "Fear Not".! If there were >:no >:> >basis for the fear... why would it be mentioned? Hmmmmm????? >:> > >:> >B.D. >:> > >:> > >:> Hi Bruce: >:> The fear is caused by not understanding the dynamics of the >:> experience. When a person cannot move and breathing becomes difficult, >:> alarm bells go off. Under those circumstances, the mind plays tricks >:> on you. Period. That's all it is. >:> You are trying to inject an explanation that has no evidence to back >:> it up. Even worse, you are trying to perpetuate a long misunderstood >:> experience in the face of new and overwhelming evidence to the >:> contrary. >:> By understanding the psychological dynamics of the physical state that >:> makes up the sleep paralysis experience, you find that the fear is >:> baseless and then it disappears, as soon as the individual anticipates >:> and compensates for it. Knowledge is, indeed, the antidote for fear. >:> What's -really- scaring me here is that you are starting to sound like >:> Fitzsimons! >: >:Hi Haunter and all, >:Well, no doubt everybody has their own unique 'take' on this sort of thing. >:What is slightly more troubling to me is that the skeptical or practical >:minded attitude seems to be that the world is going to come to an end if >any >:sort of woo woo ideas are given the least credibility! Ironically, the >:advice you and Bruce give is actually quite similar. Bruce just suggests >:employing imagery to "move past it" (which could be useful to Lorene as her >:experiences are so vivid as to be indistinguishable from reality), while >you >:suggest that she might convince herself that there is nothing to fear >:because the fear is caused by the experience. (IOWs, "so, get over it" or >:"move past it", just as Bruce says...). What I'm wondering is how you can >be >:so sure that Lorene's fear is caused by not understanding the experience? >:The root of Lorene's fear could well be anything at all. I think that >:knowledge *can* be an 'antidote' for fear, but this knowledge of yours, >:Haunter, may be too generic to be of any use to Lorene. I think she's just >:going to have to figure out for herself what the fear really is, then the >:problem will probably begin to resolve itself. But if she can't grok for >:herself the root cause of her fear, then all advice will be moot. > >That makes sense Dorothy. I think the fear is mostly the feeling of no >control. When in that paralysis state of course I feel I have no control >over my body which in a sense I really don't . Maybe I have this 'it' around >to explain to my brain why I can't move because I never understood before >why I couldn't move or speak or anything before. Now that I am getting a >better understanding of the physiological (sp?) reasons of the paralysis I >hope to get a grip on my 'it' and the fear. I just need to keep reassuring >myself that these *are* the reasons and that I invented the 'it' to >compensate for what was happening when I had no other explanation at the >time. The loss of control is what I hate the most. You got it Lorene. I know what you mean, especially with this recent "razors" trip of mine. We immediately get defensive and try to physically defend ourselves, which makes it worse because of the paralysis. The control is a state of mind. ###### Message-ID: <3974A34D.2AED@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 51 NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 13:32:31 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-sJVvfSoHwydGJc9qGfdk3OArR+sdgWIr6Gs3ZL+nTdJjk8eNsdu4G5ULyPZHkcuBPi8hIndI/WlNsB6!EC2ygBSR2JdwyNP2ZvamLiHlpJs= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 14:34:53 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47515 Trish wrote: > > lorz wrote in message ... > > > >dorothy dunne wrote in message <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com>... > >: > >:Hi Haunter and all, > >:Well, no doubt everybody has their own unique 'take' on this sort of > thing. > >:What is slightly more troubling to me is that the skeptical or practical > >:minded attitude seems to be that the world is going to come to an end if > >any > >:sort of woo woo ideas are given the least credibility! Ironically, the > >:advice you and Bruce give is actually quite similar. Bruce just suggests > >:employing imagery to "move past it" (which could be useful to Lorene as > her > >:experiences are so vivid as to be indistinguishable from reality), while > >you > >:suggest that she might convince herself that there is nothing to fear > >:because the fear is caused by the experience. (IOWs, "so, get over it" or > >:"move past it", just as Bruce says...). What I'm wondering is how you can > >be > >:so sure that Lorene's fear is caused by not understanding the experience? > >:The root of Lorene's fear could well be anything at all. I think that > >:knowledge *can* be an 'antidote' for fear, but this knowledge of yours, > >:Haunter, may be too generic to be of any use to Lorene. I think she's just > >:going to have to figure out for herself what the fear really is, then the > >:problem will probably begin to resolve itself. But if she can't grok for > >:herself the root cause of her fear, then all advice will be moot. > > > >That makes sense Dorothy. I think the fear is mostly the feeling of no > >control. When in that paralysis state of course I feel I have no control > >over my body which in a sense I really don't . Maybe I have this 'it' > around > >to explain to my brain why I can't move because I never understood before > >why I couldn't move or speak or anything before. Now that I am getting a > >better understanding of the physiological (sp?) reasons of the paralysis I > >hope to get a grip on my 'it' and the fear. I just need to keep reassuring > >myself that these *are* the reasons and that I invented the 'it' to > >compensate for what was happening when I had no other explanation at the > >time. The loss of control is what I hate the most. > > You got it Lorene. I know what you mean, especially with this recent > "razors" trip of mine. We immediately get defensive and try to physically > defend ourselves, which makes it worse because of the paralysis. The > control is a state of mind. Yep. We may not be able to control our bodies in SP but we can learn to control our thoughts and emotions. P.S. Didn't realize the razor incident was recent! ###### From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?anonym=99?= Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,demon.local,sci.skeptic,alt.fart Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 16:04:51 -0700 Organization: . Lines: 9 Message-ID: <3974E293.482B0F09@pacbell.net> References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com> <8l18v1$1d0q@edrn.newsguy.com> Reply-To: . X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7C-CCK-MCD {C-UDP; EBM-APPLE} (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!telocity-west!TELOCITY!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47532 Tony Sidaway blithered: > > I've been spooked a few times in real life when I had > my full wits about me, You were shocked to realize how useless your "full wits" actually were, weren't you, Tony? ###### Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body,demon.local,sci.skeptic,alt.fart Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE From: spnak@petitmorte.net (jfred) Message-ID: <1edzfx0.hkavw61x1sphkN%spnak@petitmorte.net> References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com> <8l18v1$1d0q@edrn.newsguy.com> <3974E293.482B0F09@pacbell.net> Organization: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=95?= Think Different User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.4.5 Lines: 16 Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:45:07 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.214.41.58 X-Trace: news1.atl 963967691 209.214.41.58 (Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:48:11 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 20:48:11 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news1.atl.POSTED!spnak Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47527 anonym' wrote: > Tony Sidaway blithered: > > > > I've been spooked a few times in real life when I had my full wits > > about me, > > You were shocked to realize how useless your "full wits" actually were, > weren't you, Tony? shhhh! You're supposed to pretend that you don't notice when Tony's "full wits" are peeking out from under his cheap frock! -- jfred Habent Abdenda Omnes Praeter Me ac Simiam Meam ###### Message-ID: <39751924.270B44B8@visi.net> From: John Garrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com> <8l18v1$1d0q@edrn.newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 63 Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 02:56:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp29.ts2-2.newportnews.visi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:56:21 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsxfer.visi.net!firenze.visi.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47664 lorz wrote: > > Sherilyn <582@sherilyn.org.uk> wrote in message > <8l18v1$1d0q@edrn.newsguy.com>... > :In article <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com>, "dorothy says... > :> > :[...] > :> > :>Hmm, well, I actually had Bruce's top post in mind when I was speaking of > :>"useful" advice, but you're right that this particular quotation could be > :>alarming to someone who takes it literally. OTOH, I think Lorene (and > :>everybody?) realizes that Bruce tends to be a little melodramatic. > : > :Agreed. We take our past experience into account and, coming from Bruce, > the > :words are not so alarming as they might be (they certainly were not > intended to > :alarm). > : > :> Even so, > :>there is still the kernel of truth in what Bruce says, in that the > "fear" - > :>whatever its source - *is* real. To say that Lorene's fear is seated in > the > :>experience itself, and is therefore "baseless", may not be particularly > :>reassuring, especially when so many others have experienced SP and > :>associated symptoms without any fear whatsoever. This is what makes me > think > :>that only Lorene can determine the root cause, by perhaps using the > :>visualization technique that you suggested. > :> > :> > :I for one have absolutely no trouble imagining how alarming the experiences > :Lorene describes can be. I've been spooked a few times in real life when I > had > :my full wits about me, so can well understand how terrifying an experience > of > :sleep paralysis can be. > : > :-- > > Well it helps knowing I am not the only one and that others have succeeded > getting through SP by the methods described in previous post. Yep, just a few days ago I suffered sleep paralysis and for the first time remained perfectly calm. I woke up and was laying there when I "heard" (sort of a mix between just having a song pop into your head during the day and dream/hypnogogic sounds I think) the theme song to Halloween the movie. I just thought it was sort of an odd thing to hear, then said to myself "I am paralized". Sure enough I was. It was the first time I didn't panic so I got to feel how it really feels. It feels strange, I couldn't really just lay there and rest because my body wasn't relaxed enough, or I was too hung up on the fact that I was paralized one. So I just lay there and kept trying to move every now and again. Finally I just "forced" myself to move. Then just rolled over and went back to sleep. ###### From: "B.D. Yager" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 54 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 21:59:43 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.31.188.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@alpha.net X-Trace: homer.alpha.net 963975860 206.31.188.30 (Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:04:20 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:04:20 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspump.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!homer.alpha.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47596 Haunter wrote in message news:39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com... > On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:03:25 -0500, "B.D. Yager" > wrote: > > snipped > >> oooh Bruce, that's scary. Reminds me of the movie "Poltergeist". > >> > >> I can understand why people would believe that the soul is leaving the > >body > >> and encountering other "spirits" .... but how could these spirits cause > >> harm? I mean .. what kind of harm could they possibly cause in a non > >> physical environment? > >> > >> > > > > > >Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! The > >fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of eternal > >torment by them.. or, total extinction? So, who wants to chance it???? > >"Fear" is real... so there must be a just reason for it. Even the > >Angels...encountering Humans,... first said "Fear Not".! If there were no > >basis for the fear... why would it be mentioned? Hmmmmm????? > > > >B.D. > > > > > Hi Bruce: > The fear is caused by not understanding the dynamics of the > experience. When a person cannot move and breathing becomes difficult, > alarm bells go off. Under those circumstances, the mind plays tricks > on you. Period. That's all it is. > You are trying to inject an explanation that has no evidence to back > it up. Even worse, you are trying to perpetuate a long misunderstood > experience in the face of new and overwhelming evidence to the > contrary. > By understanding the psychological dynamics of the physical state that > makes up the sleep paralysis experience, you find that the fear is > baseless and then it disappears, as soon as the individual anticipates > and compensates for it. Knowledge is, indeed, the antidote for fear. > What's -really- scaring me here is that you are starting to sound like > Fitzsimons! > Right. B.D. ###### From: "B.D. Yager" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 97 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:08:58 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.31.188.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@alpha.net X-Trace: homer.alpha.net 963976415 206.31.188.30 (Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:13:35 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:13:35 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newspump.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!homer.alpha.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47598 dorothy dunne wrote in message news:39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com... > Haunter wrote in message > news:39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com... > > On Sun, 16 Jul 2000 18:03:25 -0500, "B.D. Yager" > > wrote: > > > > snipped > > >> oooh Bruce, that's scary. Reminds me of the movie "Poltergeist". > > >> > > >> I can understand why people would believe that the soul is leaving the > > >body > > >> and encountering other "spirits" .... but how could these spirits cause > > >> harm? I mean .. what kind of harm could they possibly cause in a non > > >> physical environment? > > >> > > > > > >Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! > The > > >fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of eternal > > >torment by them.. or, total extinction? So, who wants to chance it???? > > >"Fear" is real... so there must be a just reason for it. Even the > > >Angels...encountering Humans,... first said "Fear Not".! If there were > no > > >basis for the fear... why would it be mentioned? Hmmmmm????? > > > > > >B.D. > > > > > > > > Hi Bruce: > > The fear is caused by not understanding the dynamics of the > > experience. When a person cannot move and breathing becomes difficult, > > alarm bells go off. Under those circumstances, the mind plays tricks > > on you. Period. That's all it is. > > You are trying to inject an explanation that has no evidence to back > > it up. Even worse, you are trying to perpetuate a long misunderstood > > experience in the face of new and overwhelming evidence to the > > contrary. > > By understanding the psychological dynamics of the physical state that > > makes up the sleep paralysis experience, you find that the fear is > > baseless and then it disappears, as soon as the individual anticipates > > and compensates for it. Knowledge is, indeed, the antidote for fear. > > What's -really- scaring me here is that you are starting to sound like > > Fitzsimons! > > Hi Haunter and all, > Well, no doubt everybody has their own unique 'take' on this sort of thing. > What is slightly more troubling to me is that the skeptical or practical > minded attitude seems to be that the world is going to come to an end if any > sort of woo woo ideas are given the least credibility! Ironically, the > advice you and Bruce give is actually quite similar. Bruce just suggests > employing imagery to "move past it" (which could be useful to Lorene as her > experiences are so vivid as to be indistinguishable from reality), while you > suggest that she might convince herself that there is nothing to fear > because the fear is caused by the experience. (IOWs, "so, get over it" or > "move past it", just as Bruce says...). What I'm wondering is how you can be > so sure that Lorene's fear is caused by not understanding the experience? > The root of Lorene's fear could well be anything at all. I think that > knowledge *can* be an 'antidote' for fear, but this knowledge of yours, > Haunter, may be too generic to be of any use to Lorene. I think she's just > going to have to figure out for herself what the fear really is, then the > problem will probably begin to resolve itself. But if she can't grok for > herself the root cause of her fear, then all advice will be moot. > > Regards to all, > Dorothy Thank-you Dorothy! You are quite perceptive! It is the primal fear itself, which can be so damaging. And, that fear...will breed even more! Intense fear...can, and does, do drastic things to the human body and the psyche! So...credence *should* be given to it,... it does have the ability to do great harm! *How* one surpasses the fear, simply does not matter, as you stated. It is the *belief* in an outcome, which promotes success. The end result is the same...what does this matter? Mental imagery coupled with belief and faith... can get you through the "Nasty Realm"...., or even... kill cancer cells. Or,... move mountains! B.D. > > > ###### From: "B.D. Yager" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 40 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:15:11 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.31.188.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@alpha.net X-Trace: homer.alpha.net 963976787 206.31.188.30 (Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:19:47 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:19:47 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!newspump.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!homer.alpha.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47597 Janice wrote in message news:3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net... > dorothy dunne wrote: > > > > Hi Haunter and all, > > Well, no doubt everybody has their own unique 'take' on this sort of thing. > > What is slightly more troubling to me is that the skeptical or practical > > minded attitude seems to be that the world is going to come to an end if any > > sort of woo woo ideas are given the least credibility! Ironically, the > > advice you and Bruce give is actually quite similar. Bruce just suggests > > employing imagery to "move past it" (which could be useful to Lorene as her > > experiences are so vivid as to be indistinguishable from reality), while you > > suggest that she might convince herself that there is nothing to fear > > because the fear is caused by the experience. (IOWs, "so, get over it" or > > "move past it", just as Bruce says...). > > Somehow I don't think that a scary statement like: > > "Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! > The fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of > eternal torment by them.. or, total extinction?" > > is going to help anyone move past their fear .... Hello Janice! I seem to have been mis-interpreted, slightly hey??? I said... "willing" to "accept" or "acknowledge". And that...the "fear" is very real. Not the object of the fear! The "eternal torment" is quite possible...should you continue feeding those fears! See? B.D. ###### From: "B.D. Yager" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <397703c0.49944021@cnews.newsguy.com> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 47 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:19:26 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.31.188.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@alpha.net X-Trace: homer.alpha.net 963977046 206.31.188.30 (Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:24:06 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:24:06 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!triton.skycache.com!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!homer.alpha.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47603 Haunter wrote in message news:397703c0.49944021@cnews.newsguy.com... > On Mon, 17 Jul 2000 08:38:56 -0400, Janice > wrote: > > >dorothy dunne wrote: > >> > >> Hi Haunter and all, > >> Well, no doubt everybody has their own unique 'take' on this sort of thing. > >> What is slightly more troubling to me is that the skeptical or practical > >> minded attitude seems to be that the world is going to come to an end if any > >> sort of woo woo ideas are given the least credibility! Ironically, the > >> advice you and Bruce give is actually quite similar. Bruce just suggests > >> employing imagery to "move past it" (which could be useful to Lorene as her > >> experiences are so vivid as to be indistinguishable from reality), while you > >> suggest that she might convince herself that there is nothing to fear > >> because the fear is caused by the experience. (IOWs, "so, get over it" or > >> "move past it", just as Bruce says...). > > > >Somehow I don't think that a scary statement like: > > > >"Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! > >The fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of > >eternal torment by them.. or, total extinction?" > > > >is going to help anyone move past their fear .... > > Agreed; if he's just left it at the "Monroe" stage of things, I'd not > have bothered. Well 'scuse me! I didn't realize that *you* were the final answer... guess I should have consulted you... before forming any of my own opinions, huh? :) B.D. ###### From: "B.D. Yager" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 66 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:22:42 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.31.188.30 X-Complaints-To: abuse@alpha.net X-Trace: homer.alpha.net 963977238 206.31.188.30 (Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:27:18 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:27:18 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspump.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!homer.alpha.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47600 dorothy dunne wrote in message news:39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com... > Janice wrote in message > news:3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net... > > dorothy dunne wrote: > > > > > > Hi Haunter and all, > > > Well, no doubt everybody has their own unique 'take' on this sort of > thing. > > > What is slightly more troubling to me is that the skeptical or practical > > > minded attitude seems to be that the world is going to come to an end if > any > > > sort of woo woo ideas are given the least credibility! Ironically, the > > > advice you and Bruce give is actually quite similar. Bruce just suggests > > > employing imagery to "move past it" (which could be useful to Lorene as > her > > > experiences are so vivid as to be indistinguishable from reality), while > you > > > suggest that she might convince herself that there is nothing to fear > > > because the fear is caused by the experience. (IOWs, "so, get over it" > or > > > "move past it", just as Bruce says...). > > > > Somehow I don't think that a scary statement like: > > > > "Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! > > The fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of > > eternal torment by them.. or, total extinction?" > > > > is going to help anyone move past their fear .... > > Hmm, well, I actually had Bruce's top post in mind when I was speaking of > "useful" advice, but you're right that this particular quotation could be > alarming to someone who takes it literally. OTOH, I think Lorene (and > everybody?) realizes that Bruce tends to be a little melodramatic. Even so, > there is still the kernel of truth in what Bruce says, in that the "fear" - > whatever its source - *is* real. To say that Lorene's fear is seated in the > experience itself, and is therefore "baseless", may not be particularly > reassuring, especially when so many others have experienced SP and > associated symptoms without any fear whatsoever. This is what makes me think > that only Lorene can determine the root cause, by perhaps using the > visualization technique that you suggested. > Thank-you Dot! :) Whaaaaaaa.... Me? Melodramatic??? Sheesh. Hahahahahahahaha!!!!! ;) B.D. > ###### Message-ID: <39753DCF.4106@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 39 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 00:31:45 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-iFKB68x+Xw5fD56h7eTy/0VwPhIVp2aq/l+aRHnC83xWLv6KiO3/ePCwGeVkEeenHcY/JuJdQXWIiFh!6MFPw1bRAGjoTsIGFtdSULJHMJw= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 01:34:07 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news5.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47509 B.D. Yager wrote: > > Janice wrote in message > news:3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net... > > dorothy dunne wrote: > > > > > > Hi Haunter and all, > > > Well, no doubt everybody has their own unique 'take' on this sort of > thing. > > > What is slightly more troubling to me is that the skeptical or practical > > > minded attitude seems to be that the world is going to come to an end if > any > > > sort of woo woo ideas are given the least credibility! Ironically, the > > > advice you and Bruce give is actually quite similar. Bruce just suggests > > > employing imagery to "move past it" (which could be useful to Lorene as > her > > > experiences are so vivid as to be indistinguishable from reality), while > you > > > suggest that she might convince herself that there is nothing to fear > > > because the fear is caused by the experience. (IOWs, "so, get over it" > or > > > "move past it", just as Bruce says...). > > > > Somehow I don't think that a scary statement like: > > > > "Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! > > The fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of > > eternal torment by them.. or, total extinction?" > > > > is going to help anyone move past their fear .... > > Hello Janice! I seem to have been mis-interpreted, slightly hey??? I > said... "willing" to "accept" or "acknowledge". And that...the "fear" is > very real. Not the object of the fear! The "eternal torment" is quite > possible...should you continue feeding those fears! See? Yeah, but jeeze, I think your wording was sufficient to lend itself to that interpretation, considering that there were a few of us who made it. You were even scarin' me there, Bruce! :) ###### From: Haunter@castles.com (Haunter) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:46:49 GMT Organization: A.S.I./Psi -App/WCS Lines: 22 Message-ID: <397540b3.13221876@cnews.newsguy.com> References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <397703c0.49944021@cnews.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-513.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47604 On Tue, 18 Jul 2000 22:19:26 -0500, "B.D. Yager" wrote: > >Well 'scuse me! I didn't realize that *you* were the final answer... guess >I should have consulted you... before forming any of my own opinions, huh? >:) > >B.D. > > heheeh, welcome back. -- Haunter: Cognitive Dissident White Crow Society:Knowledge is the Antidote for Fear http://www.whitecrowsociety.com New Double CD of casefiles, now available Sign up now for 3 new WCS on-line classes in Intro., Medical and In-field Parapsychology ###### From: Haunter@castles.com (Haunter) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 05:52:20 GMT Organization: A.S.I./Psi -App/WCS Lines: 28 Message-ID: <3977417d.13424759@cnews.newsguy.com> References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com> <8l18v1$1d0q@edrn.newsguy.com> <39751924.270B44B8@visi.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-607.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47606 On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 02:56:21 GMT, John Garrison wrote: >Yep, just a few days ago I suffered sleep paralysis and for the first >time remained perfectly calm. I woke up and was laying there when I >"heard" (sort of a mix between just having a song pop into your head >during the day and dream/hypnogogic sounds I think) the theme song to >Halloween the movie. I just thought it was sort of an odd thing to hear, >then said to myself "I am paralized". Sure enough I was. It was the >first time I didn't panic so I got to feel how it really feels. It feels >strange, I couldn't really just lay there and rest because my body >wasn't relaxed enough, or I was too hung up on the fact that I was >paralized one. So I just lay there and kept trying to move every now and >again. Finally I just "forced" myself to move. Then just rolled over and >went back to sleep. RightON John! Now, -that's- progress! It doesn't mean it's all downhill from here though. Still, now that you've made it past that first big hurdle, even a temporary setback will be easier to handle. Well done. Ooh, "Enter the Dragon" is on...gotta go! :)) -- Haunter: Cognitive Dissident White Crow Society:Knowledge is the Antidote for Fear http://www.whitecrowsociety.com New Double CD of casefiles, now available Sign up now for 3 new WCS on-line classes in Intro., Medical and In-field Parapsychology ###### From: "B.D. Yager" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <39753DCF.4106@not-here.net> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 60 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:19:36 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 156.46.129.121 X-Complaints-To: abuse@alpha.net X-Trace: homer.alpha.net 964009456 156.46.129.121 (Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:24:16 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 07:24:16 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!newsengine.sol.net!newsfeeds.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!homer.alpha.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47602 Janice wrote in message news:39753DCF.4106@not-here.net... > B.D. Yager wrote: > > > > Janice wrote in message > > news:3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net... > > > dorothy dunne wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Haunter and all, > > > > Well, no doubt everybody has their own unique 'take' on this sort of > > thing. > > > > What is slightly more troubling to me is that the skeptical or practical > > > > minded attitude seems to be that the world is going to come to an end if > > any > > > > sort of woo woo ideas are given the least credibility! Ironically, the > > > > advice you and Bruce give is actually quite similar. Bruce just suggests > > > > employing imagery to "move past it" (which could be useful to Lorene as > > her > > > > experiences are so vivid as to be indistinguishable from reality), while > > you > > > > suggest that she might convince herself that there is nothing to fear > > > > because the fear is caused by the experience. (IOWs, "so, get over it" > > or > > > > "move past it", just as Bruce says...). > > > > > > Somehow I don't think that a scary statement like: > > > > > > "Every type of "harm"... that you are willing to accept, or acknowledge! > > > The fear *is* very real... and, I suspect... even the possibility of > > > eternal torment by them.. or, total extinction?" > > > > > > is going to help anyone move past their fear .... > > > > Hello Janice! I seem to have been mis-interpreted, slightly hey??? I > > said... "willing" to "accept" or "acknowledge". And that...the "fear" is > > very real. Not the object of the fear! The "eternal torment" is quite > > possible...should you continue feeding those fears! See? > > Yeah, but jeeze, I think your wording was sufficient to lend itself to > that interpretation, considering that there were a few of us who made > it. You were even scarin' me there, Bruce! :) Be afraid My Queen... be very afraid. :o B.D. Yager ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3974A34D.2AED@not-here.net> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 73 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: <1cid5.253$Qd5.58627@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> X-Trace: +SbzLz4rJBHQSt0pj/UIbKNAN5AW/F2A/4JiqbZR1HUjyRn8Dn9PbBqb1fnrBmpKiFnbMopzFGgz!mppVnnqOi1BOk96w0hTK8mgSeLeIX6GYWMdBGkWgbjLKbAltKPZ7e6OSkgXghK839sEZ4e3oeEFi!v/Lk4Q== X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:39:09 GMT Distribution: world Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:39:09 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47634 Janice wrote in message <3974A34D.2AED@not-here.net>... >Trish wrote: >> >> lorz wrote in message ... >> > >> >dorothy dunne wrote in message <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com>... >> >: >> >:Hi Haunter and all, >> >:Well, no doubt everybody has their own unique 'take' on this sort of >> thing. >> >:What is slightly more troubling to me is that the skeptical or practical >> >:minded attitude seems to be that the world is going to come to an end if >> >any >> >:sort of woo woo ideas are given the least credibility! Ironically, the >> >:advice you and Bruce give is actually quite similar. Bruce just suggests >> >:employing imagery to "move past it" (which could be useful to Lorene as >> her >> >:experiences are so vivid as to be indistinguishable from reality), while >> >you >> >:suggest that she might convince herself that there is nothing to fear >> >:because the fear is caused by the experience. (IOWs, "so, get over it" or >> >:"move past it", just as Bruce says...). What I'm wondering is how you can >> >be >> >:so sure that Lorene's fear is caused by not understanding the experience? >> >:The root of Lorene's fear could well be anything at all. I think that >> >:knowledge *can* be an 'antidote' for fear, but this knowledge of yours, >> >:Haunter, may be too generic to be of any use to Lorene. I think she's just >> >:going to have to figure out for herself what the fear really is, then the >> >:problem will probably begin to resolve itself. But if she can't grok for >> >:herself the root cause of her fear, then all advice will be moot. >> > >> >That makes sense Dorothy. I think the fear is mostly the feeling of no >> >control. When in that paralysis state of course I feel I have no control >> >over my body which in a sense I really don't . Maybe I have this 'it' >> around >> >to explain to my brain why I can't move because I never understood before >> >why I couldn't move or speak or anything before. Now that I am getting a >> >better understanding of the physiological (sp?) reasons of the paralysis I >> >hope to get a grip on my 'it' and the fear. I just need to keep reassuring >> >myself that these *are* the reasons and that I invented the 'it' to >> >compensate for what was happening when I had no other explanation at the >> >time. The loss of control is what I hate the most. >> >> You got it Lorene. I know what you mean, especially with this recent >> "razors" trip of mine. We immediately get defensive and try to physically >> defend ourselves, which makes it worse because of the paralysis. The >> control is a state of mind. > >Yep. We may not be able to control our bodies in SP but we can learn to >control our thoughts and emotions. > >P.S. Didn't realize the razor incident was recent! Yep, it sure was. Kind of shocked me, because I thought I had gotten past that type of stuff. Guess not. : ) ###### Message-ID: <3975C129.4E2A@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3974A34D.2AED@not-here.net> <1cid5.253$Qd5.58627@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 09:52:10 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-WKVOod7CY91JvPyGfNn2p5BEBK65Uyyb4uTZZY/6l7egQ1S8cbB1WyPETPYGODHGLsFOlBMkHtuPI1Z!SEFwxqP1iw11OpWpMTX73MlQb1A= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:54:33 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!paloalto-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47508 Trish wrote: > > Janice wrote in message <3974A34D.2AED@not-here.net>... >> > > >P.S. Didn't realize the razor incident was recent! > > Yep, it sure was. Kind of shocked me, because I thought I had gotten past > that type of stuff. Guess not. : ) Jay had a false awakening one time in which a hand came up through the bed and grabbed him. He interpreted it (on purpose) as trying to drag him down into hell. He punched or stabbed at it and it let go. Yours takes the cake, though. :) ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3974A34D.2AED@not-here.net> <1cid5.253$Qd5.58627@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <3975C129.4E2A@not-here.net> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 24 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: /K0ZECg9BVV7fOKUUbcdiVf/OL2+33IIYF5SxkVJ6Hbb7YFbKfkQqw5aSMbiNFcuv1LhzqhCRjWf!qbUVfNMNsApg7JArnyolUt4CTZ0vqRNj3+OX7m3UG+xuvEsxQCR0vUZbYUrhUBDoFy25c70GXoIT!Ys1ZpA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:00:00 GMT Distribution: world Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:00:00 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47639 Janice wrote in message <3975C129.4E2A@not-here.net>... >Trish wrote: >> >> Janice wrote in message <3974A34D.2AED@not-here.net>... >>> > >> >P.S. Didn't realize the razor incident was recent! >> >> Yep, it sure was. Kind of shocked me, because I thought I had gotten past >> that type of stuff. Guess not. : ) > >Jay had a false awakening one time in which a hand came up through the >bed and grabbed him. He interpreted it (on purpose) as trying to drag >him down into hell. He punched or stabbed at it and it let go. Yours >takes the cake, though. :) Well now I know who to call the next time they come for me! : ) Actually, the whole thing kind of pissed me off. How dare I let myself get upset over that? But .. in another way .. it was kind of neat to experience that fear again (in retrospect). ###### From: Haunter@castles.com (Haunter) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:19:30 GMT Organization: A.S.I./Psi -App/WCS Lines: 27 Message-ID: <3980c6de.47574509@cnews.newsguy.com> References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3974A34D.2AED@not-here.net> <1cid5.253$Qd5.58627@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <3975C129.4E2A@not-here.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-778.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newsmaster-01.atnet.at!atnet.at!newsrouter.chello.at!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.netcologne.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47622 On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:54:33 -0400, Janice wrote: >Trish wrote: >> >> Janice wrote in message <3974A34D.2AED@not-here.net>... >>> > >> >P.S. Didn't realize the razor incident was recent! >> >> Yep, it sure was. Kind of shocked me, because I thought I had gotten past >> that type of stuff. Guess not. : ) > >Jay had a false awakening one time in which a hand came up through the >bed and grabbed him. He interpreted it (on purpose) as trying to drag >him down into hell. He punched or stabbed at it and it let go. Yours >takes the cake, though. :) Sounds like he's been watching too many Freddy Kruger movies :) -- Haunter: Cognitive Dissident White Crow Society:Knowledge is the Antidote for Fear http://www.whitecrowsociety.com New Double CD of casefiles, now available Sign up now for 3 new WCS on-line classes in Intro., Medical and In-field Parapsychology ###### Message-ID: <3975FD6E.21F8@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3974A34D.2AED@not-here.net> <1cid5.253$Qd5.58627@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <3975C129.4E2A@not-here.net> <3980c6de.47574509@cnews.newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 14:09:25 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-pZJ6TNaFIJmEkf75J3SKQuO/RGrjHeZuj4fpBfBPhxTFgjkIwXVXiZwzRKQUbV9jvSWgf1i1VN2z3Hh!YJh3jSV944edfQMWqUNakpsM/Ok= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 15:11:42 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news4.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47514 Haunter wrote: > > On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 10:54:33 -0400, Janice > wrote: > > >Trish wrote: > >> > >> Janice wrote in message <3974A34D.2AED@not-here.net>... > >>> > > >> >P.S. Didn't realize the razor incident was recent! > >> > >> Yep, it sure was. Kind of shocked me, because I thought I had gotten past > >> that type of stuff. Guess not. : ) > > > >Jay had a false awakening one time in which a hand came up through the > >bed and grabbed him. He interpreted it (on purpose) as trying to drag > >him down into hell. He punched or stabbed at it and it let go. Yours > >takes the cake, though. :) > > Sounds like he's been watching too many Freddy Kruger movies :) Actually I can't remember him ever watching anything like that since I've known him. I'll have to ask him if he ever did. ###### From: "dorothy dunne" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Date: Wed, 19 Jul 2000 22:01:40 -0700 Lines: 43 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 NNTP-Posting-Host: sanduser2091.bossig.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: sanduser2091.bossig.com Message-ID: <397676dc@news-out.newsnerds.com> X-Trace: 19 Jul 2000 22:49:48 -0500, sanduser2091.bossig.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@newsnerds.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.online.no!newsfeed.online.no!Norway.EU.net!uio.no!uninett.no!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed.icl.net!diablo.theplanet.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!zur.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!lax.uu.net!arb.uu.net!dfw.uu.net!news-out.newsnerds.com!sanduser2091.bossig.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47768 lorz wrote in message news:sY0d5.3787$Hz.24742@news4.atl... > > dorothy dunne wrote in message <39728d12@news- > :The root of Lorene's fear could well be anything at all. I think that > :knowledge *can* be an 'antidote' for fear, but this knowledge of yours, > :Haunter, may be too generic to be of any use to Lorene. I think she's just > :going to have to figure out for herself what the fear really is, then the > :problem will probably begin to resolve itself. But if she can't grok for > :herself the root cause of her fear, then all advice will be moot. > > That makes sense Dorothy. I think the fear is mostly the feeling of no > control. When in that paralysis state of course I feel I have no control > over my body which in a sense I really don't . Maybe I have this 'it' around > to explain to my brain why I can't move because I never understood before > why I couldn't move or speak or anything before. Now that I am getting a > better understanding of the physiological (sp?) reasons of the paralysis I > hope to get a grip on my 'it' and the fear. I just need to keep reassuring > myself that these *are* the reasons and that I invented the 'it' to > compensate for what was happening when I had no other explanation at the > time. The loss of control is what I hate the most. Ah, well, in that case, why don't you do what I do and practice bringing the SP on intentionally. Before you go to sleep, breathe deeply and relax. At the same time, remain perfectly motionless. Eventually you'll begin to get the numb paralyzed feeling, but since you are bringing it about consciously, then you should be able to maintain control and terminate the session when you feel like you've had enough. This is really more of a simulated SP, but it works well enough for me, that I've brought on a number of OBEs using it. This might help the "out of control" feeling, but for the night hags, wolves and other scary characters, a "practice" confrontation will probably work best. Assuming that they represent some aspect of yourself that "scares" you, then you should be able to 'dialogue' and get the answers. It would be a bit like self-hypnosis, I think. Good luck, Dorothy ###### From: "Cathy Credulous" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <397676dc@news-out.newsnerds.com> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 17 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 02:04:07 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.19.142.131 X-Complaints-To: abuse@bcpl.net X-Trace: news.abs.net 964072862 207.19.142.131 (Thu, 20 Jul 2000 02:01:02 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 02:01:02 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!europa.netcrusader.net!207.114.4.11!nntp.abs.net!news.abs.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47744 "dorothy dunne" wrote in message [ ...] > > This might help the "out of control" feeling, but for the night hags, wolves > and other scary characters, a "practice" confrontation will probably work > best. Assuming that they represent some aspect of yourself that "scares" > you, then you should be able to 'dialogue' and get the answers. It would be > a bit like self-hypnosis, I think. She could picture herself with a cross or even a gun with a silver bullet or some other talisman, since these are ways folklore has handed us ways of protecting ourselves from imaginary characters. Hey, it might work. Cathy ###### Message-ID: <3976B05A.6758@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <397676dc@news-out.newsnerds.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 02:52:43 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-UnNlmfiPF3TOIDO47bnTyC710DJsxaF/TQikm+ukpIct0G9c3/en5plGpDSBVgVdXas9ABKuJrLCK+a!3gDdPqV6baE53jpNCeFCoUP/7MU= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 03:55:06 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!newsfeed1.online.no!newsfeed.online.no!news.powertech.no!uninett.no!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news6.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47674 Cathy Credulous wrote: > > "dorothy dunne" wrote in message [ > ...] > > > > This might help the "out of control" feeling, but for the night hags, wolves > > and other scary characters, a "practice" confrontation will probably work > > best. Assuming that they represent some aspect of yourself that "scares" > > you, then you should be able to 'dialogue' and get the answers. It would be > > a bit like self-hypnosis, I think. > > She could picture herself with a cross or even a gun with a silver bullet > or some other talisman, since these are ways folklore has handed us ways > of protecting ourselves from imaginary characters. Hey, it might work. I've enjoyed stomping the bastards into the floor or throwing them out the window myself. ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <397676dc@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3976B05A.6758@not-here.net> Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE Lines: 32 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 14:00:50 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.76.180.109 X-Trace: news1.atl 964116340 216.76.180.109 (Thu, 20 Jul 2000 14:05:40 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 14:05:40 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news1.atl.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47820 Janice wrote in message <3976B05A.6758@not-here.net>... :Cathy Credulous wrote: :> :> "dorothy dunne" wrote in message [ :> ...] :> > :> > This might help the "out of control" feeling, but for the night hags, wolves :> > and other scary characters, a "practice" confrontation will probably work :> > best. Assuming that they represent some aspect of yourself that "scares" :> > you, then you should be able to 'dialogue' and get the answers. It would be :> > a bit like self-hypnosis, I think. :> :> She could picture herself with a cross or even a gun with a silver bullet :> or some other talisman, since these are ways folklore has handed us ways :> of protecting ourselves from imaginary characters. Hey, it might work. : :I've enjoyed stomping the bastards into the floor or throwing them out :the window myself. Yeah yeah I know! I know I need to picture something and confront the 'it' or whatever but for me that is MUCH easier said than done. It feels and seems so real at the time. I will keep reassuring myself that it is from within and try my best not to fear it next time which I have always said but when it happens it's a whole 'nother story you know? ###### Message-ID: <397759CB.3FA91C12@visi.net> From: John Garrison X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3972FE60.1BF8@not-here.net> <39739125@news-out.newsnerds.com> <8l18v1$1d0q@edrn.newsguy.com> <39751924.270B44B8@visi.net> <3977417d.13424759@cnews.newsguy.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 35 Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 19:56:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp04.ts2.smithfield.visi.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 15:56:38 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsxfer.visi.net!firenze.visi.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47846 Haunter wrote: > > On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 02:56:21 GMT, John Garrison wrote: > > >Yep, just a few days ago I suffered sleep paralysis and for the first > >time remained perfectly calm. I woke up and was laying there when I > >"heard" (sort of a mix between just having a song pop into your head > >during the day and dream/hypnogogic sounds I think) the theme song to > >Halloween the movie. I just thought it was sort of an odd thing to hear, > >then said to myself "I am paralized". Sure enough I was. It was the > >first time I didn't panic so I got to feel how it really feels. It feels > >strange, I couldn't really just lay there and rest because my body > >wasn't relaxed enough, or I was too hung up on the fact that I was > >paralized one. So I just lay there and kept trying to move every now and > >again. Finally I just "forced" myself to move. Then just rolled over and > >went back to sleep. > RightON John! Now, -that's- progress! It doesn't mean it's all > downhill from here though. Still, now that you've made it past that > first big hurdle, even a temporary setback will be easier to handle. Yeah, If only I could get the theme from Halloween to play everytime I am in danger, like Spiderman's spidey-sense, or Conner/Duncan Mcloeds Immortal "intuition", or for us 80's children, Lion-O's Sword of Omens. Thundercats HO! hehe. ###### Message-ID: <39775CA5.1B8D@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: latest SP & OBE References: <8kcqka$19nc@edrn.newsguy.com> <1kjc5.750$xX3.300894@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net> <39724f34.3717517@cnews.newsguy.com> <39728d12@news-out.newsnerds.com> <397676dc@news-out.newsnerds.com> <3976B05A.6758@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 35 NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 15:07:49 CDT Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv2-HueNTgRg1aQOmnAG5lVQ1q+tjs5/xKth/OV6m1psY8Kv2pVblY7UQhK5RIRXOY2PBf19C9YUTA5Bsi7!hq8uIVGrWY4beD2Ar6/wCWohrr0= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Thu, 20 Jul 2000 16:10:13 -0400 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp3.giganews.com!news5.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:47816 lorz wrote: > > Janice wrote in message <3976B05A.6758@not-here.net>... > :Cathy Credulous wrote: > :> > :> "dorothy dunne" wrote in message [ > :> ...] > :> > > :> > This might help the "out of control" feeling, but for the night hags, > wolves > :> > and other scary characters, a "practice" confrontation will probably > work > :> > best. Assuming that they represent some aspect of yourself that > "scares" > :> > you, then you should be able to 'dialogue' and get the answers. It > would be > :> > a bit like self-hypnosis, I think. > :> > :> She could picture herself with a cross or even a gun with a silver bullet > :> or some other talisman, since these are ways folklore has handed us ways > :> of protecting ourselves from imaginary characters. Hey, it might work. > : > :I've enjoyed stomping the bastards into the floor or throwing them out > :the window myself. > > Yeah yeah I know! I know I need to picture something and confront the 'it' > or whatever but for me that is MUCH easier said than done. It feels and > seems so real at the time. I will keep reassuring myself that it is from > within and try my best not to fear it next time which I have always said but > when it happens it's a whole 'nother story you know? I know. Don't feel like you have to beat the crap out of it, though. Use whatever approach you're comfortable with. Dialoging works for some, giving love works for some, white light visualizations work for some - whatever.