From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 09:14:49 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom Lines: 63 Message-ID: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> Reply-To: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com NNTP-Posting-Host: useraj34.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 951297823 15966 62.188.133.163 (23 Feb 2000 09:23:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Feb 2000 09:23:43 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34077 After the practice vist I mentioned to Trish earlier, I had an unusually dream-free night's sleep. The alarm clock woke me, and I lay down to meditate about 6.15 am, Wednesday 23 Feb 2000, UK GMT . I held the object I wished to show the girls in my left hand, lying on my chest. In my right hand, I held my selenite wand to the crown of my head, to give me extra energy. I asked my Angel to guide and help me. As my body relaxed and I began to float up, I steered myself up through the ceiling, attic and roof, and out into the pale foggy sky. I carried on rising unil I could see Great Britain laid out below me, then I set off towards America, continuing to rise up in an arc until I could see the shape of the continent. I aimed for Trish in Florida, calling her name, and saw my target glow like a red light, towards the middle of the state (N-S), but to the West side. Trish was sleeping when I arrived in her room, alone in a double bed with light-coloured bedding, sprawled out all over the width of the bed. She was pale, slim and with a tangle of dark waves and loose curls. I tried to scan her room, but for everyone this part remained foggy; perhaps I had given myself too much to do. I should have called 'Clarity now', I suppose! I showed Trish my image, and tried to collect hers; as I wrote above: "the object which I later 'collected' from you was circular. It was solid, like a disc, medal or coin, but I could see no patterns on it, too fuzzy." Anyway, I then pulled Trish's hands and pulled her up into the sky, saying the we were going to go and find Lorene. She was not far away, but was heavily asleep, and the least lucid of all of us. But I was very gentle, and Trish and I both held Lorene's hands, careful not to let her get frightened at all. Lorene was small and slight, with short blonde almost yellow hair. I think she was alone but I am not certain of this. I showed Lorene my object, and waved it in her face, but she was oblivious of it, and had no image to show me. We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to find Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast asleep. She was bigger built and taller than the others, with loose brown wavy hair. Janice was dreaming, and the most conscious of everyone I met. I showed her my object and she held it for a few moments. Then she gave me an odd thing: a green pea pod, split slightly open so that I could see a row of fat green peas inside. She held hands with Trish, Trish and I with Lorene, and we all flew high up into the sky to locate Dorothy. Trish seemed to know whereabouts she was, so we flew to her red light target. This was inland, about a third of the way across the States from the West coast, about two-thirds of the way up towards the North. My visit to Dorothy was rather foggy; I have little recollection of her or of her room. But I showed her my object, and then she showed me hers; it was small, about six inches high, flared out at the top like a wine glass, but it was made of brass-like metal. I wondered whether it could be a small cup, chalice or trophy, but then she turned it upside-down and shook it, and it chimed, so I think it was a small handbell. We then returned to drop off Janice, then Lorene, and then I gave Trish a hug and returned her to her bed and sleeping sprawling body. Before I left each person, I gave her a blessing of enveloping white light. Then I flew home, emerged from meditation, stretched, and opened my eyes just in time for my son to come in for his wake-up cuddle. I am sorry that there was so much fog; when I got up and threw back the curtains, there was thick white fog all around my house, so it must have been seeping into the Astral! Love from Julia. ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 78 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: +S1ZDPmL/EbcYFrf+xf1TlYFSY9D62JhUsxnYbHe1IAeniISXEDk01e1bVkVNujVGqQXGU6cbQzw!ykuEnpHsrLTAdZLQSJl6x6VwphYtxWpbND2WTiMCS7LFrORLLTjNJOlQCsoh3R90puE/eB9z4Jbs!iA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:47:16 GMT Distribution: world Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:47:16 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-MUC.ecrc.net!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34124 Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com>... > After the practice vist I mentioned to Trish earlier, I had an >unusually dream-free night's sleep. The alarm clock woke me, and I lay >down to meditate about 6.15 am, Wednesday 23 Feb 2000, UK GMT . > > I held the object I wished to show the girls in my left hand, lying >on my chest. In my right hand, I held my selenite wand to the crown of >my head, to give me extra energy. I asked my Angel to guide and help >me. > As my body relaxed and I began to float up, I steered myself up >through the ceiling, attic and roof, and out into the pale foggy sky. >I carried on rising unil I could see Great Britain laid out below me, >then I set off towards America, continuing to rise up in an arc until >I could see the shape of the continent. I aimed for Trish in Florida, >calling her name, and saw my target glow like a red light, towards the >middle of the state (N-S), but to the West side. > Trish was sleeping when I arrived in her room, alone in a double >bed with light-coloured bedding, sprawled out all over the width of >the bed. She was pale, slim and with a tangle of dark waves and loose >curls. I tried to scan her room, but for everyone this part remained >foggy; perhaps I had given myself too much to do. I should have called >'Clarity now', I suppose! > I showed Trish my image, and tried to collect hers; as I wrote >above: "the object which I later 'collected' from you was circular. It >was solid, like a disc, medal or coin, but I could see no patterns on >it, too fuzzy." > Anyway, I then pulled Trish's hands and pulled her up into the sky, >saying the we were going to go and find Lorene. She was not far away, >but was heavily asleep, and the least lucid of all of us. But I was >very gentle, and Trish and I both held Lorene's hands, careful not to >let her get frightened at all. Lorene was small and slight, with short >blonde almost yellow hair. I think she was alone but I am not certain >of this. > I showed Lorene my object, and waved it in her face, but she was >oblivious of it, and had no image to show me. > We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to find >Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast asleep. >She was bigger built and taller than the others, with loose brown wavy >hair. Janice was dreaming, and the most conscious of everyone I met. >I showed her my object and she held it for a few moments. Then she >gave me an odd thing: a green pea pod, split slightly open so that I >could see a row of fat green peas inside. > She held hands with Trish, Trish and I with Lorene, and we all flew >high up into the sky to locate Dorothy. Trish seemed to know >whereabouts she was, so we flew to her red light target. This was >inland, about a third of the way across the States from the West >coast, about two-thirds of the way up towards the North. > My visit to Dorothy was rather foggy; I have little recollection of >her or of her room. But I showed her my object, and then she showed me >hers; it was small, about six inches high, flared out at the top like >a wine glass, but it was made of brass-like metal. I wondered whether >it could be a small cup, chalice or trophy, but then she turned it >upside-down and shook it, and it chimed, so I think it was a small >handbell. > We then returned to drop off Janice, then Lorene, and then I gave >Trish a hug and returned her to her bed and sleeping sprawling body. >Before I left each person, I gave her a blessing of enveloping white >light. > Then I flew home, emerged from meditation, stretched, and opened my >eyes just in time for my son to come in for his wake-up cuddle. I am >sorry that there was so much fog; when I got up and threw back the >curtains, there was thick white fog all around my house, so it must >have been seeping into the Astral! >Love from Julia. The rest of my night was virtually dream free - or nothing that I could recollect. But before I fell off to sleep for the night, I had been thinking of work, and reminding myself to bring home one of those new "gold" coins they've just come out with. My son has been begging me for one, and I keep forgetting to grab some out of the vault. Trish ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 13:02:10 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom Lines: 8 Message-ID: <38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> Reply-To: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com NNTP-Posting-Host: useral79.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 951311466 27197 62.188.134.152 (23 Feb 2000 13:11:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Feb 2000 13:11:06 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34122 On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:47:16 GMT, "Trish" wrote: >But before I fell off to sleep for the night, I had been thinking of work, >and reminding myself to bring home one of those new "gold" coins they've >just come out with. My son has been begging me for one, and I keep >forgetting to grab some out of the vault. Ha! This does sound like a hit to me, albeit a small one! Love from Julia. ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 91 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: <1DRs4.7312$Wv2.82456@news2.mia> Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:51:23 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.77.205.222 X-Trace: news2.mia 951313981 216.77.205.222 (Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:53:01 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:53:01 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.tli.de!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.atl!news2.mia.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34117 Hi Girls! Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com>... : After the practice vist I mentioned to Trish earlier, I had an :unusually dream-free night's sleep. The alarm clock woke me, and I lay :down to meditate about 6.15 am, Wednesday 23 Feb 2000, UK GMT . : : I held the object I wished to show the girls in my left hand, lying :on my chest. In my right hand, I held my selenite wand to the crown of :my head, to give me extra energy. I asked my Angel to guide and help :me. : As my body relaxed and I began to float up, I steered myself up :through the ceiling, attic and roof, and out into the pale foggy sky. :I carried on rising unil I could see Great Britain laid out below me, :then I set off towards America, continuing to rise up in an arc until :I could see the shape of the continent. I aimed for Trish in Florida, :calling her name, and saw my target glow like a red light, towards the :middle of the state (N-S), but to the West side. : Trish was sleeping when I arrived in her room, alone in a double :bed with light-coloured bedding, sprawled out all over the width of :the bed. She was pale, slim and with a tangle of dark waves and loose :curls. I tried to scan her room, but for everyone this part remained :foggy; perhaps I had given myself too much to do. I should have called :'Clarity now', I suppose! : I showed Trish my image, and tried to collect hers; as I wrote :above: "the object which I later 'collected' from you was circular. It :was solid, like a disc, medal or coin, but I could see no patterns on :it, too fuzzy." : Anyway, I then pulled Trish's hands and pulled her up into the sky, :saying the we were going to go and find Lorene. She was not far away, :but was heavily asleep, and the least lucid of all of us. But I was :very gentle, and Trish and I both held Lorene's hands, careful not to :let her get frightened at all. Lorene was small and slight, with short :blonde almost yellow hair. I think she was alone but I am not certain :of this. You got that right. I had no lucid dream or OBE. (that I remember) I was definitley heavy asleep last night. ARGH! I am small and slight though and have short ,blonde , yellowish hair. I was alone in bed last night also.. though there may have been a cat or two with me. : I showed Lorene my object, and waved it in her face, but she was :oblivious of it, and had no image to show me. I didn't know anything about showing images! Did I miss a post on this? hmmpf... I am anxious to try this again whenever you all are! : We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to find :Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast asleep. :She was bigger built and taller than the others, with loose brown wavy :hair. Janice was dreaming, and the most conscious of everyone I met. :I showed her my object and she held it for a few moments. Then she :gave me an odd thing: a green pea pod, split slightly open so that I :could see a row of fat green peas inside. : She held hands with Trish, Trish and I with Lorene, and we all flew :high up into the sky to locate Dorothy. Trish seemed to know :whereabouts she was, so we flew to her red light target. This was :inland, about a third of the way across the States from the West :coast, about two-thirds of the way up towards the North. : My visit to Dorothy was rather foggy; I have little recollection of :her or of her room. But I showed her my object, and then she showed :me hers; it was small, about six inches high, flared out at the top like :a wine glass, but it was made of brass-like metal. I wondered :whether it could be a small cup, chalice or trophy, but then she turned :it upside-down and shook it, and it chimed, so I think it was a small :handbell. : We then returned to drop off Janice, then Lorene, and then I gave :Trish a hug and returned her to her bed and sleeping sprawling body. :Before I left each person, I gave her a blessing of enveloping white :light. Thank you Julia!! : Then I flew home, emerged from meditation, stretched, and opened :my :eyes just in time for my son to come in for his wake-up cuddle. I am :sorry that there was so much fog; when I got up and threw back the :curtains, there was thick white fog all around my house, so it must :have been seeping into the Astral! :Love from Julia. Well, I am disappointed I was so heavily "out" of it last night and will have to try harder next time! Maybe we can do it again real soon? Julia, I recieved your book by the way.. thank you and I hope to start it soon! Lorene ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:28:28 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom Lines: 20 Message-ID: <38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <1DRs4.7312$Wv2.82456@news2.mia> Reply-To: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com NNTP-Posting-Host: userah55.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 951323846 4847 62.188.132.240 (23 Feb 2000 16:37:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Feb 2000 16:37:26 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34146 On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:51:23 -0500, "lorz" wrote: >You got that right. I had no lucid dream or OBE. (that I remember) I was >definitley heavy asleep last night. ARGH! I am small and slight though and >have short ,blonde , yellowish hair. >I was alone in bed last night also.. though there may have been a cat or two >with me. Good! More hits! >: I showed Lorene my object, and waved it in her face, but she was >:oblivious of it, and had no image to show me. >I didn't know anything about showing images! Did I miss a post on this? >hmmpf... I am anxious to try this again whenever you all are! >Well, I am disappointed I was so heavily "out" of it last night and will >have to try harder next time! >Maybe we can do it again real soon? Let's do it again tonight. I'll use the same object, and post what it is later on. Love from Julia. ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <1DRs4.7312$Wv2.82456@news2.mia> <38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 30 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:45:09 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.77.205.227 X-Trace: news3.mia 951324333 216.77.205.227 (Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:45:33 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 11:45:33 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newspeer1.nac.net!news.new-york.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.atl!news3.mia.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34139 Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message <38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com>... :On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:51:23 -0500, "lorz" wrote: :>You got that right. I had no lucid dream or OBE. (that I remember) I was :>definitley heavy asleep last night. ARGH! I am small and slight though and :>have short ,blonde , yellowish hair. :>I was alone in bed last night also.. though there may have been a cat or two :>with me. : : Good! More hits! : :>: I showed Lorene my object, and waved it in her face, but she was :>:oblivious of it, and had no image to show me. :>I didn't know anything about showing images! Did I miss a post on this? :>hmmpf... I am anxious to try this again whenever you all are! :>Well, I am disappointed I was so heavily "out" of it last night and will :>have to try harder next time! :>Maybe we can do it again real soon? : : Let's do it again tonight. I'll use the same object, and post what :it is later on. : Love from Julia. OK!! I am going to try tonight for sure! Help me out Julia! Thanks, Love... Lorene ###### Reply-To: "Izabela" From: "Izabela" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 49 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Complaints-To: admin@usenetserver.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 14:15:39 EST Organization: UseNet Server, Inc. http://www.usenetserver.com - Home of the fastest NNTP servers on the Net. Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 21:15:59 +0200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone1.usenetserver.com!cyclone1.usenetserver.com!news4.usenetserver.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34149 "Julia Hawkes-Moore" wrote in message news:38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com... > On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:47:16 GMT, "Trish" wrote: > >But before I fell off to sleep for the night, I had been thinking of work, > >and reminding myself to bring home one of those new "gold" coins they've > >just come out with. My son has been begging me for one, and I keep > >forgetting to grab some out of the vault. > > Ha! This does sound like a hit to me, albeit a small one! > Love from Julia. Hello Julia and girls, Thank you for posting your results in the news group. They are very interesting and helpful. I am in a small group for mutual and telepathic lucid (oob) dreaming. We have our "meetings" every week and though at the beginning it looked as a crazy impossible idea, now we are able to "hit" every time we dream. The most difficult target for us is to see how we actually look. We live in different countries, have never seen our photos and till now I was able only once to describe one of the girls. Maybe you can help us with some ideas how to do this. I just love the idea of carrying a small object as a way for verification and will pass it on to the other people in the group. Exactly this type of hits as with the "gold" coin is the most common in our experience - when one of the group picks up the actual awaken thoughts of somebody else. Sometimes this happens with an amazing accuracy. We have noticed an other strange phenomena in our dreaming. We have cases of almost identical lucid dreams about visiting similar places and meeting each other there, but with a gap of 2 - 3 days. The last time the difference was almost a month. We are sure that they are not inspired by our reports, because we find out about this accidentally, after we had the dreams. This kind of shifts make us to think on how linear is the time at all and that maybe the people have shared dreams much more often than we think. I would be very glad to hear if something like this have happened to you too and your opinion - do you think we can consider such shifted in time lucid dreams as mutual. Best regards Izabela ###### Message-ID: <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 90 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951339297 207.103.34.8 (Wed, 23 Feb 2000 13:54:57 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 13:54:57 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:54:57 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34133 Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > After the practice vist I mentioned to Trish earlier, I had an > unusually dream-free night's sleep. The alarm clock woke me, and I lay > down to meditate about 6.15 am, Wednesday 23 Feb 2000, UK GMT . > > I held the object I wished to show the girls in my left hand, lying > on my chest. In my right hand, I held my selenite wand to the crown of > my head, to give me extra energy. I asked my Angel to guide and help > me. > As my body relaxed and I began to float up, I steered myself up > through the ceiling, attic and roof, and out into the pale foggy sky. > I carried on rising unil I could see Great Britain laid out below me, > then I set off towards America, continuing to rise up in an arc until > I could see the shape of the continent. I aimed for Trish in Florida, > calling her name, and saw my target glow like a red light, towards the > middle of the state (N-S), but to the West side. > Trish was sleeping when I arrived in her room, alone in a double > bed with light-coloured bedding, sprawled out all over the width of > the bed. She was pale, slim and with a tangle of dark waves and loose > curls. I tried to scan her room, but for everyone this part remained > foggy; perhaps I had given myself too much to do. I should have called > 'Clarity now', I suppose! > I showed Trish my image, and tried to collect hers; as I wrote > above: "the object which I later 'collected' from you was circular. It > was solid, like a disc, medal or coin, but I could see no patterns on > it, too fuzzy." > Anyway, I then pulled Trish's hands and pulled her up into the sky, > saying the we were going to go and find Lorene. She was not far away, > but was heavily asleep, and the least lucid of all of us. But I was > very gentle, and Trish and I both held Lorene's hands, careful not to > let her get frightened at all. Lorene was small and slight, with short > blonde almost yellow hair. I think she was alone but I am not certain > of this. > I showed Lorene my object, and waved it in her face, but she was > oblivious of it, and had no image to show me. > We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to find > Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast asleep. Actually, my husband and I slept in separate rooms last night, as we usually do. (I'm a very light sleeper and he snores too much for me! Plus I go to bed at irregular hours.) My cat was beside me fast asleep, if he counts. :) > She was bigger built and taller than the others, with loose brown wavy > hair. "Bigger built" is probably true, since I'm a little overweight just now, but I'm only 5' 4" tall. "Loose brown wavy hair" is accurate (my hair is also quite long). > Janice was dreaming, and the most conscious of everyone I met. I'm sure I was the most conscious, because I was lying in bed pretty much awake at the time (I'll be posting a report in the "Mirror, Mirror" thread shortly). > I showed her my object and she held it for a few moments. Then she > gave me an odd thing: a green pea pod, split slightly open so that I > could see a row of fat green peas inside. That doesn't resemble the object I had in mind at all, I'm afraid. The only association I have to that is our skeptic friend PZ (aka "Peasy" to some)! :D > She held hands with Trish, Trish and I with Lorene, and we all flew > high up into the sky to locate Dorothy. Trish seemed to know > whereabouts she was, so we flew to her red light target. This was > inland, about a third of the way across the States from the West > coast, about two-thirds of the way up towards the North. > My visit to Dorothy was rather foggy; I have little recollection of > her or of her room. But I showed her my object, and then she showed me > hers; it was small, about six inches high, flared out at the top like > a wine glass, but it was made of brass-like metal. I wondered whether > it could be a small cup, chalice or trophy, but then she turned it > upside-down and shook it, and it chimed, so I think it was a small > handbell. > We then returned to drop off Janice, then Lorene, and then I gave > Trish a hug and returned her to her bed and sleeping sprawling body. > Before I left each person, I gave her a blessing of enveloping white > light. I do remember thinking that you might do that. > Then I flew home, emerged from meditation, stretched, and opened my > eyes just in time for my son to come in for his wake-up cuddle. I am > sorry that there was so much fog; when I got up and threw back the > curtains, there was thick white fog all around my house, so it must > have been seeping into the Astral! > Love from Julia. ###### Message-ID: <38B449C0.5371@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <1DRs4.7312$Wv2.82456@news2.mia> <38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951339406 207.103.34.8 (Wed, 23 Feb 2000 13:56:46 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 13:56:46 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:56:46 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34132 Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:51:23 -0500, "lorz" wrote: > >You got that right. I had no lucid dream or OBE. (that I remember) I was > >definitley heavy asleep last night. ARGH! I am small and slight though and > >have short ,blonde , yellowish hair. > >I was alone in bed last night also.. though there may have been a cat or two > >with me. > > Good! More hits! > > >: I showed Lorene my object, and waved it in her face, but she was > >:oblivious of it, and had no image to show me. > >I didn't know anything about showing images! Did I miss a post on this? > >hmmpf... I am anxious to try this again whenever you all are! > >Well, I am disappointed I was so heavily "out" of it last night and will > >have to try harder next time! > >Maybe we can do it again real soon? > > Let's do it again tonight. I'll use the same object, and post what > it is later on. > Love from Julia. All right. I'll continue to use my object as well. Don't be distracted by PZ's skeptic rays this time. :D ###### From: "dorothy dunne" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 13:19:33 -0800 Lines: 72 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 NNTP-Posting-Host: sanduser1101.bossig.com Message-ID: <38b44c6c@nntp-out.newsnerds.com> X-Trace: 23 Feb 2000 15:09:00 -0600, sanduser1101.bossig.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!uunet!sea.uu.net!dfw.uu.net!nntp-out.newsnerds.com!sanduser1101.bossig.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34148 Hi ladies, I'll tag my report on to Trish's, as Julia's post has not come in on my server. Trish wrote in message news:oFQs4.68$i_1.3758@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net... > > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message > <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com>... [snip account of Julia's visits to Trish, Lorene, and Janice] > > She held hands with Trish, Trish and I with Lorene, and we all flew > >high up into the sky to locate Dorothy. Trish seemed to know > >whereabouts she was, so we flew to her red light target. This was > >inland, about a third of the way across the States from the West > >coast, about two-thirds of the way up towards the North. Trish must've seen my post where I mentioned my location...? I didn't *think* my e-mail would get to Julia on time, as I probably (?) sent it close to the time she went to bed. (But I guess her email was shut down in any case...) Anyway, this is pretty close: I'm in the panhandle of Idaho (maybe 2/3 of the way up the *state*!? > > My visit to Dorothy was rather foggy; I have little recollection of > >her or of her room. Perhaps the confusion about where I am resulted in Julia's inability to "see" my bedroom, etc.? But I showed her my object, and then she showed me > >hers; I went to bed last night in plenty of time to initiate an OBE. (I tried, but no cigar! I must've fallen asleep almost as soon as my head hit the pillow.) No OBE, and a deep, sound sleep with no lucid dreaming. it was small, about six inches high, flared out at the top like > >a wine glass, but it was made of brass-like metal. I wondered whether > >it could be a small cup, chalice or trophy, but then she turned it > >upside-down and shook it, and it chimed, so I think it was a small > >handbell. I had a hard time deciding on an image to project - and felt a little ambiguous about it besides. I did give it some thought, however, and thought of 2 or 3 things. The item that Julia zeroed in on was, I think, one that I'd thought about, but rejected in favor of another. Tonight, I'll just place the object she seems to have "seen" somewhere near me. I'll reveal what it is tomorrow. BTW, If PZ wants to know what my object is, he can e-mail me, and I'll send him a description, as well as consider any other suggestions he may have.) I don't have any impressions at all of Julia's object, but I'll give it another try tonight. [snip the rest of Julia's and Trish's account.] This is all pretty interesting. I have to say, though, that to me it seems a little odd to try and find images in a mirror or anything like that. Since my OBEs (when I have them) are so vivid, I would much prefer to "go" to where Julia is, or just await her arrival, and move on from there.... So the experiment as it's set up is a little funny, (though I think I can "work around it"). I was intrigued that Julia says that Janice was by far the most "conscious" of any of us. (I can certainly confirm that I was not conscious *at all* during the period that Julia describes.) I haven't seen Janice's report yet, but am looking forward to reading it. Dorothy ###### From: PZ Myers Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:52:17 -0500 Organization: newsread.com ISP News Reading Service (http://www.newsread.com) Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp105.blackbox1-mfs.netaxs.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Homepage: http://homepage.mac.com/myers/ X-Face: *`F&^X/f&n(#,P$B}<8pB!us}V6Y:WLg>3u+dA$5NqHe#nyY.FwhP$)rtW,rO#3MpsZBw_aUV~bJLL$b,|*->^G@m4L!'keI32*HsCyURaWJ6)*`lY;3blw*b>c+Y2 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!europa.netcrusader.net!207.8.136.130!news-xfer.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!netaxs.newsread.com!myers Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34153 In article <38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com>, hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com wrote: > On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:47:16 GMT, "Trish" wrote: > >But before I fell off to sleep for the night, I had been thinking of > >work, > >and reminding myself to bring home one of those new "gold" coins they've > >just come out with. My son has been begging me for one, and I keep > >forgetting to grab some out of the vault. > > Ha! This does sound like a hit to me, albeit a small one! Bleh. Sounds more like an attempt at retrofitting, to me. -- PZ Myers ###### From: PZ Myers Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:53:50 -0500 Organization: newsread.com ISP News Reading Service (http://www.newsread.com) Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <1DRs4.7312$Wv2.82456@news2.mia> <38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B449C0.5371@not-here.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp105.blackbox1-mfs.netaxs.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Homepage: http://homepage.mac.com/myers/ X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw, Janice wrote: > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > > > On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:51:23 -0500, "lorz" > > wrote: > > >You got that right. I had no lucid dream or OBE. (that I remember) > > >I was definitley heavy asleep last night. ARGH! I am small and > > >slight though and have short ,blonde , yellowish hair. I was alone > > >in bed last night also.. though there may have been a cat or two > > >with me. > > > > Good! More hits! Baloney. > > > > >: I showed Lorene my object, and waved it in her face, but she > > >: was > > >:oblivious of it, and had no image to show me. > > >I didn't know anything about showing images! Did I miss a post on > > >this? hmmpf... I am anxious to try this again whenever you all > > >are! Well, I am disappointed I was so heavily "out" of it last > > >night and will have to try harder next time! Maybe we can do it > > >again real soon? > > > > Let's do it again tonight. I'll use the same object, and post > > what > > it is later on. > > Love from Julia. > > All right. I'll continue to use my object as well. Don't be > distracted by PZ's skeptic rays this time. :D No skeptical rays were emitted. My daughter was sick (nothing serious), so I was wide awake at the time of all this remarkable astral activity. ###### From: PZ Myers Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:57:42 -0500 Organization: newsread.com ISP News Reading Service (http://www.newsread.com) Lines: 35 Message-ID: References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp105.blackbox1-mfs.netaxs.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Homepage: http://homepage.mac.com/myers/ X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw, Janice wrote: > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: [snip] > > We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to find > > Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast asleep. > > Actually, my husband and I slept in separate rooms last night, as we > usually do. (I'm a very light sleeper and he snores too much for me! > Plus I go to bed at irregular hours.) My cat was beside me fast > asleep, if he counts. :) Note: "husband" was followed by a question mark. Are you keeping a secret from him? You wouldn't want to deny a 'hit' to poor Ms. Hawkes-Moore, now would you? [snip] > > I showed her my object and she held it for a few moments. Then she > > gave me an odd thing: a green pea pod, split slightly open so that I > > could see a row of fat green peas inside. > > That doesn't resemble the object I had in mind at all, I'm afraid. The > only association I have to that is our skeptic friend PZ (aka "Peasy" to > some)! :D I am not green, nor am I fat and round, nor am I a vegetable. Although I do really like peas. Her description doesn't even come close to what you told me. [snip] ###### Message-ID: <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 53 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951345424 207.103.34.8 (Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:37:04 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:37:04 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:37:04 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34243 PZ Myers wrote: > > In article <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net>, Janice > wrote: > > > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > [snip] > > > > We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to find > > > Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast asleep. > > > > Actually, my husband and I slept in separate rooms last night, as we > > usually do. (I'm a very light sleeper and he snores too much for me! > > Plus I go to bed at irregular hours.) My cat was beside me fast > > asleep, if he counts. :) > > Note: "husband" was followed by a question mark. Are you keeping a > secret from him? You wouldn't want to deny a 'hit' to poor Ms. > Hawkes-Moore, now would you? Exsqueeze me, sir? I've mentioned my husband several times at this newsgroup (he has even posted here a few times) so I saw no need proclaim, "Yes, I do have a husband." Ms. Hawks-Moore can make up her own mind as to what she chooses to consider a hit, but it's obvious that she wasn't accurately perceiving my sleeping circumstances. > > [snip] > > > > I showed her my object and she held it for a few moments. Then she > > > gave me an odd thing: a green pea pod, split slightly open so that I > > > could see a row of fat green peas inside. > > > > , I'm afraid. The > > only association I have to that is our skeptic friend PZ (aka "Peasy" to > > some)! :D > > I am not green, nor am I fat and round, nor am I a vegetable. I should hope not. Still, I do sometimes think of you as "Peasy" thanks to your story of your aunt. An association, as I said. > Although I > do really like peas. Good for you. I like them as well. My husband, on the other hand, despises them. > Her description doesn't even come close to what you told me. This is certainly true, and I said so quite plainly: "That doesn't resemble the object I had in mind at all." ###### Message-ID: <38B46181.8A8@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <1DRs4.7312$Wv2.82456@news2.mia> <38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B449C0.5371@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 44 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951345486 207.103.34.8 (Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:38:06 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:38:06 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:38:06 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34239 PZ Myers wrote: > > In article <38B449C0.5371@not-here.net>, Janice > wrote: > > > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > > > > > On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:51:23 -0500, "lorz" > > > wrote: > > > >You got that right. I had no lucid dream or OBE. (that I remember) > > > >I was definitley heavy asleep last night. ARGH! I am small and > > > >slight though and have short ,blonde , yellowish hair. I was alone > > > >in bed last night also.. though there may have been a cat or two > > > >with me. > > > > > > Good! More hits! > > Baloney. > > > > > > > >: I showed Lorene my object, and waved it in her face, but she > > > >: was > > > >:oblivious of it, and had no image to show me. > > > >I didn't know anything about showing images! Did I miss a post on > > > >this? hmmpf... I am anxious to try this again whenever you all > > > >are! Well, I am disappointed I was so heavily "out" of it last > > > >night and will have to try harder next time! Maybe we can do it > > > >again real soon? > > > > > > Let's do it again tonight. I'll use the same object, and post > > > what > > > it is later on. > > > Love from Julia. > > > > All right. I'll continue to use my object as well. Don't be > > distracted by PZ's skeptic rays this time. :D > > No skeptical rays were emitted. My daughter was sick (nothing serious), I'm glad she's all right. > so I was wide awake at the time of all this remarkable astral activity. Ah, good. So was I. ###### Message-ID: <38B463E4.3A78@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951346098 207.103.34.8 (Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:48:18 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:48:18 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:48:18 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newshub.northeast.verio.net!verio!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34164 PZ Myers wrote: > > In article <38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com>, > hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com wrote: > > > On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:47:16 GMT, "Trish" wrote: > > >But before I fell off to sleep for the night, I had been thinking of > > >work, > > >and reminding myself to bring home one of those new "gold" coins they've > > >just come out with. My son has been begging me for one, and I keep > > >forgetting to grab some out of the vault. > > > > Ha! This does sound like a hit to me, albeit a small one! > > Bleh. Sounds more like an attempt at retrofitting, to me. "Retrofitting" - that's a good word. Yes, in my experience people attempting to digest the results of shared dreaming experiments do exhibit a tendency to try to make all sorts of little things fit into the picture. ###### Message-ID: <38B4659F.83A@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951346539 207.103.34.8 (Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:55:39 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 15:55:39 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:55:39 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34241 Janice wrote: > > PZ Myers wrote: > > > > Note: "husband" was followed by a question mark. Are you keeping a > > secret from him? You wouldn't want to deny a 'hit' to poor Ms. > > Hawkes-Moore, now would you? > > Exsqueeze me, sir? I've mentioned my husband several times at this > newsgroup (he has even posted here a few times) so I saw no need > proclaim, "Yes, I do have a husband." Ms. Hawks-Moore can make up her > own mind as to what she chooses to consider a hit, but it's obvious that > she wasn't accurately perceiving my sleeping circumstances. In fact I have even posted here to Julia that I have a husband, and as she commented in response to that information at the time I know that she saw it. So unless she forgot about that exchange, I see no reason to take her "(husband?)" comment here to be a query as to whether or not I have a husband. ###### From: PZ Myers Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 17:56:47 -0500 Organization: newsread.com ISP News Reading Service (http://www.newsread.com) Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp105.blackbox1-mfs.netaxs.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Homepage: http://homepage.mac.com/myers/ X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw, Janice wrote: [snip] > > Her description doesn't even come close to what you told me. > > This is certainly true, and I said so quite plainly: "That doesn't > resemble the object I had in mind at all." Yep. Just doing my job of verification. Although I must confess to having been tempted to say, "Why, Janice! Her description fits the object you described to me precisely! Why are you changing your story?", just to be eeeeeevil. ###### Message-ID: <38B4685D.47CF@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951347242 207.103.34.8 (Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:07:22 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:07:22 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 23:07:22 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34178 PZ Myers wrote: > > In article <38B46143.5460@not-here.net>, Janice > wrote: > > [snip] > > > > Her description doesn't even come close to what you told me. > > > > This is certainly true, and I said so quite plainly: "That doesn't > > resemble the object I had in mind at all." > > Yep. Just doing my job of verification. OK. > Although I must confess to having been tempted to say, "Why, Janice! Her > description fits the object you described to me precisely! Why are you > changing your story?", just to be eeeeeevil. There you go, making me laugh again. I don't know if you intend to be or not, but you are a lot of fun. ###### From: "Wally Anglesea" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 46 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:20:58 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.108.231.122 X-Trace: ozemail.com.au 951348027 203.108.231.122 (Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:20:27 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:20:27 EST Organization: OzEmail Pty Ltd, Australia Distribution: world Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.ozemail.com.au!ozemail.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34204 Janice wrote in message news:38B46143.5460@not-here.net... > PZ Myers wrote: > > > > In article <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net>, Janice > > wrote: > > > > > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > > > [snip] > > > > > > We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to find > > > > Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast asleep. > > > > > > Actually, my husband and I slept in separate rooms last night, as we > > > usually do. (I'm a very light sleeper and he snores too much for me! > > > Plus I go to bed at irregular hours.) My cat was beside me fast > > > asleep, if he counts. :) > > > > Note: "husband" was followed by a question mark. Are you keeping a > > secret from him? You wouldn't want to deny a 'hit' to poor Ms. > > Hawkes-Moore, now would you? > > Exsqueeze me, sir? I've mentioned my husband several times at this > newsgroup (he has even posted here a few times) so I saw no need > proclaim, "Yes, I do have a husband." Ms. Hawks-Moore can make up her > own mind as to what she chooses to consider a hit, but it's obvious that > she wasn't accurately perceiving my sleeping circumstances. Which means she was guessing based on previously obtained knowledge. It's OK, Doris Stokes used to do it as part of her "channeling stage act". IOW, it's baloney. There were enough misses and vague guesses in this "girls night out thing" to show that it was all just being made up. It's a pity that people try to deceive themselves this way. It happens in some of the messages my local cult kook does as well, and there's just as many misses. Make enough claims though, and you will always get a "hit". That's all we are seeing here. Pity. ###### From: "Wally Anglesea" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <1DRs4.7312$Wv2.82456@news2.mia> <38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 25 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:24:50 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.108.231.122 X-Trace: ozemail.com.au 951348259 203.108.231.122 (Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:24:19 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:24:19 EST Organization: OzEmail Pty Ltd, Australia Distribution: world Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.ozemail.com.au!ozemail.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34206 Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message news:38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com... > On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:51:23 -0500, "lorz" wrote: > >You got that right. I had no lucid dream or OBE. (that I remember) I was > >definitley heavy asleep last night. ARGH! I am small and slight though and > >have short ,blonde , yellowish hair. > >I was alone in bed last night also.. though there may have been a cat or two > >with me. > > Good! More hits! Except you saw here in bed with her husband. What you have just demonstrated is a very lame stage act once perfomed by Doris Stokes. Did you ever see her in operation? There are a lot of lame stage acts that perfom a similar act as the one you are doing here. . ###### Message-ID: <38B47328.144B@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 59 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951350006 207.103.34.8 (Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:53:26 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:53:26 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 23:53:29 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34156 Wally Anglesea wrote: > > Janice wrote in message > news:38B46143.5460@not-here.net... > > PZ Myers wrote: > > > > > > In article <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net>, Janice > > > wrote: > > > > > > > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > > > We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to find > > > > > Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast > asleep. > > > > > > > > Actually, my husband and I slept in separate rooms last night, as we > > > > usually do. (I'm a very light sleeper and he snores too much for me! > > > > Plus I go to bed at irregular hours.) My cat was beside me fast > > > > asleep, if he counts. :) > > > > > > Note: "husband" was followed by a question mark. Are you keeping a > > > secret from him? You wouldn't want to deny a 'hit' to poor Ms. > > > Hawkes-Moore, now would you? > > > > Exsqueeze me, sir? I've mentioned my husband several times at this > > newsgroup (he has even posted here a few times) so I saw no need > > proclaim, "Yes, I do have a husband." Ms. Hawks-Moore can make up her > > own mind as to what she chooses to consider a hit, but it's obvious that > > she wasn't accurately perceiving my sleeping circumstances. > > > Which means she was guessing based on previously obtained knowledge. It's > OK, Doris Stokes used to do it as part of her "channeling stage act". IOW, > it's baloney. There were enough misses and vague guesses in this "girls > night out thing" to show that it was all just being made up. It's a pity > that people try to deceive themselves this way. It happens in some of the > messages my local cult kook does as well, and there's just as many misses. > Make enough claims though, and you will always get a "hit". That's all we > are seeing here. Actually, I don't really disagree with you in principle. I have done many shared dreaming experiments and my conclusions about them in general are pretty similar to yours. People tend to focus on the few hits rather than the many misses, to look for symbolic parallels in the absence of literal ones, and to come up with various rationalizations to explain discrepancies. Fortunately, not all such people assume that what they are seeing *must* be psychic parallelism; they try to be open-minded and say maybe it is, maybe it isn't. > Pity. Not necessarily. It illuminates an important facet of human psychology - the tendency to construct big pictures out of small cues and to try to make any data available fit into the desired picture in some way. (In fact, it could be argued that you are doing the same thing, fitting this incident neatly into your own existing picture.) This is, in my opinion, the same basic process that constructs dreams to begin with. ###### From: ekans64@aol.com (Ekans64) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 72 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 24 Feb 2000 00:31:48 GMT References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <20000223193148.23642.00000729@nso-fo.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-MUC.ecrc.net!netnews.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!verio!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-east.rr.com!portc05.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34213 hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) wrote: >After the practice vist I mentioned to Trish earlier, I had an >unusually dream-free night's sleep. The alarm clock woke me, and I lay >down to meditate about 6.15 am, Wednesday 23 Feb 2000, UK GMT . > > I held the object I wished to show the girls in my left hand, lying >on my chest. In my right hand, I held my selenite wand to the crown of >my head, to give me extra energy. I asked my Angel to guide and help >me. > As my body relaxed and I began to float up, I steered myself up >through the ceiling, attic and roof, and out into the pale foggy sky. >I carried on rising unil I could see Great Britain laid out below me, >then I set off towards America, continuing to rise up in an arc until >I could see the shape of the continent. I aimed for Trish in Florida, >calling her name, and saw my target glow like a red light, towards the >middle of the state (N-S), but to the West side. > Trish was sleeping when I arrived in her room, alone in a double >bed with light-coloured bedding, sprawled out all over the width of >the bed. She was pale, slim and with a tangle of dark waves and loose >curls. I tried to scan her room, but for everyone this part remained >foggy; perhaps I had given myself too much to do. I should have called >'Clarity now', I suppose! > I showed Trish my image, and tried to collect hers; as I wrote >above: "the object which I later 'collected' from you was circular. It >was solid, like a disc, medal or coin, but I could see no patterns on >it, too fuzzy." > Anyway, I then pulled Trish's hands and pulled her up into the sky, >saying the we were going to go and find Lorene. She was not far away, >but was heavily asleep, and the least lucid of all of us. But I was >very gentle, and Trish and I both held Lorene's hands, careful not to >let her get frightened at all. Lorene was small and slight, with short >blonde almost yellow hair. I think she was alone but I am not certain >of this. > I showed Lorene my object, and waved it in her face, but she was >oblivious of it, and had no image to show me. > We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to find >Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast asleep. >She was bigger built and taller than the others, with loose brown wavy >hair. Janice was dreaming, and the most conscious of everyone I met. >I showed her my object and she held it for a few moments. Then she >gave me an odd thing: a green pea pod, split slightly open so that I >could see a row of fat green peas inside. > She held hands with Trish, Trish and I with Lorene, and we all flew >high up into the sky to locate Dorothy. Trish seemed to know >whereabouts she was, so we flew to her red light target. This was >inland, about a third of the way across the States from the West >coast, about two-thirds of the way up towards the North. > My visit to Dorothy was rather foggy; I have little recollection of >her or of her room. But I showed her my object, and then she showed me >hers; it was small, about six inches high, flared out at the top like >a wine glass, but it was made of brass-like metal. I wondered whether >it could be a small cup, chalice or trophy, but then she turned it >upside-down and shook it, and it chimed, so I think it was a small >handbell. > We then returned to drop off Janice, then Lorene, and then I gave >Trish a hug and returned her to her bed and sleeping sprawling body. >Before I left each person, I gave her a blessing of enveloping white >light. > Then I flew home, emerged from meditation, stretched, and opened my >eyes just in time for my son to come in for his wake-up cuddle. I am >sorry that there was so much fog; when I got up and threw back the >curtains, there was thick white fog all around my house, so it must >have been seeping into the Astral! >Love from Julia. > > Could you tell me what method you use to get out of body, mine never works. J.D. ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 19 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: /wObnYQDuHOOHH8ovuaFjy9WtgjJEYrKF/7J5DZgp+ptnGIfZ7xFHaz55Cqs++Uhmky5R0MwoQkT!vzfSb9pnw2najS9qGB0GGyj8k3RlkgmNaWzRIm/5sq2ZMOA8qlxJebIlQ9CZuoUEqmdt4FAbjG0K!MqaNHjKG X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 01:20:29 GMT Distribution: world Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 01:20:29 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!colt.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34226 Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message <38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com>... >On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:47:16 GMT, "Trish" wrote: >>But before I fell off to sleep for the night, I had been thinking of work, >>and reminding myself to bring home one of those new "gold" coins they've >>just come out with. My son has been begging me for one, and I keep >>forgetting to grab some out of the vault. > > Ha! This does sound like a hit to me, albeit a small one! >Love from Julia. Yes, a little one. After a while, I thought that maybe one could construe "coins" with me being a banker. Well ... onward ... and we try again. : ) Trish ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B463E4.3A78@not-here.net> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 28 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: /KHlxPEuZA8Pp5o0419+c1YjihafivLg62kz+/iygY7hYTNmlIpEdelMEMgQhuEuatr8Tvlka9BC!SEE8uzBIhNLq6pYoScjKtqqXIYrMvKASj0odjvA0QLVeaBiWAJtdgB9RujPnBrcZEyruFIVevms5!3J55xfls X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 01:22:43 GMT Distribution: world Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 01:22:43 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!colt.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34220 Janice wrote in message <38B463E4.3A78@not-here.net>... >PZ Myers wrote: >> >> In article <38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com>, >> hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com wrote: >> >> > On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:47:16 GMT, "Trish" wrote: >> > >But before I fell off to sleep for the night, I had been thinking of >> > >work, >> > >and reminding myself to bring home one of those new "gold" coins they've >> > >just come out with. My son has been begging me for one, and I keep >> > >forgetting to grab some out of the vault. >> > >> > Ha! This does sound like a hit to me, albeit a small one! >> >> Bleh. Sounds more like an attempt at retrofitting, to me. > >"Retrofitting" - that's a good word. Yes, in my experience people >attempting to digest the results of shared dreaming experiments do >exhibit a tendency to try to make all sorts of little things fit into >the picture. Would mental images, dreams, etc. count? Or are we just looking at the physical for right now? ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <1DRs4.7312$Wv2.82456@news2.mia> <38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 29 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: /KDWjax6prZ1KP7lYqp85PE63dkv1P32X7K45CVCMCdpjDmKQL9CBvDNt+0OACnSSquuW2mS0ElF!rQ8nQ5b/9Dk9bEO/8fU1yZ4f6+OXbgQ69aL8CBsDcoIWZKGyZcvudRxJ9p9fCjPnOnA27bBUtL4D!NufrvD6H X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 01:29:23 GMT Distribution: world Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 01:29:23 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34224 Wally Anglesea wrote in message ... > >Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message >news:38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com... >> On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:51:23 -0500, "lorz" wrote: >> >You got that right. I had no lucid dream or OBE. (that I remember) I was >> >definitley heavy asleep last night. ARGH! I am small and slight though >and >> >have short ,blonde , yellowish hair. >> >I was alone in bed last night also.. though there may have been a cat or >two >> >with me. >> >> Good! More hits! > >Except you saw here in bed with her husband. No Wally, she didn't. You're thinking of Janice. >What you have just demonstrated is a very lame stage act once perfomed by >Doris Stokes. Did you ever see her in operation? > >There are a lot of lame stage acts that perfom a similar act as the one you >are doing here. ###### From: PZ Myers Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 21:05:55 -0500 Organization: newsread.com ISP News Reading Service (http://www.newsread.com) Lines: 35 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <1DRs4.7312$Wv2.82456@news2.mia> <38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp105.blackbox1-mfs.netaxs.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Homepage: http://homepage.mac.com/myers/ X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw, "Trish" wrote: > Wally Anglesea wrote in message ... > > > >Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message > >news:38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com... > >> On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:51:23 -0500, "lorz" > >> wrote: > >> >You got that right. I had no lucid dream or OBE. (that I > >> >remember) I was definitley heavy asleep last night. ARGH! I am > >> >small and slight though and > >> >have short ,blonde , yellowish hair. I was alone in bed last > >> >night also.. though there may have been a cat or two > >> >with me. > >> > >> Good! More hits! > > > >Except you saw here in bed with her husband. > > No Wally, she didn't. You're thinking of Janice. Janice was in bed with Lorz's husband? This OOBE 'talent' must be a real prize for voyeurs! > > > >What you have just demonstrated is a very lame stage act once > >perfomed by Doris Stokes. Did you ever see her in operation? > > > >There are a lot of lame stage acts that perfom a similar act as the > >one you are doing here. > > > ###### Message-ID: <38B49344.4325@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B463E4.3A78@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 37 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951358226 207.103.34.8 (Wed, 23 Feb 2000 19:10:26 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 19:10:26 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 02:10:26 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!news-fra.pop.de!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34245 Trish wrote: > > Janice wrote in message <38B463E4.3A78@not-here.net>... > >PZ Myers wrote: > >> > >> In article <38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com>, > >> hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com wrote: > >> > >> > On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:47:16 GMT, "Trish" wrote: > >> > >But before I fell off to sleep for the night, I had been thinking of > >> > >work, > >> > >and reminding myself to bring home one of those new "gold" coins > they've > >> > >just come out with. My son has been begging me for one, and I keep > >> > >forgetting to grab some out of the vault. > >> > > >> > Ha! This does sound like a hit to me, albeit a small one! > >> > >> Bleh. Sounds more like an attempt at retrofitting, to me. > > > >"Retrofitting" - that's a good word. Yes, in my experience people > >attempting to digest the results of shared dreaming experiments do > >exhibit a tendency to try to make all sorts of little things fit into > >the picture. > > Would mental images, dreams, etc. count? Or are we just looking at the > physical for right now? What I'm talking about is a tendency to look at the dream accounts that people get when they do shared dreaming experiments and to do one's best to try to construe various things as hits, whether that be a matter of dream images matching up with one another or a matter of dream images being taken to represent something from the physical life of one of the participants. Unlike Wally and PZ, though, I don't take a negative view of this activity; to me it's fun even if it doesn't usually provide good evidence of psychic connections so much as it provides evidence of how the human mind works. ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <1DRs4.7312$Wv2.82456@news2.mia> <38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 31 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: /bdhN7WIaIrJRp/5ZHKAsJ/uJTt0yj78MhulzTZ/QHFKCyrBUZmqkj9JGbpXWgfJM13SQKSPMpRE!IbM0fkh0IkMI8QdlvNsnWPCk03rHfWU/rbjVcYy/kNjK71GhsnBAKzFLPuovZnLlXf/QYUbZPJQb!1d08GOQc X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 02:18:26 GMT Distribution: world Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 02:18:26 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.icl.net!colt.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34228 PZ Myers wrote in message ... >In article , "Trish" > wrote: > >> Wally Anglesea wrote in message ... >> > >> >Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message >> >news:38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com... >> >> On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:51:23 -0500, "lorz" >> >> wrote: >> >> >You got that right. I had no lucid dream or OBE. (that I >> >> >remember) I was definitley heavy asleep last night. ARGH! I am >> >> >small and slight though and >> >> >have short ,blonde , yellowish hair. I was alone in bed last >> >> >night also.. though there may have been a cat or two >> >> >with me. >> >> >> >> Good! More hits! >> > >> >Except you saw here in bed with her husband. >> >> No Wally, she didn't. You're thinking of Janice. > >Janice was in bed with Lorz's husband? This OOBE 'talent' must be a >real prize for voyeurs! Hahahaha. If you weren't such a shit I might learn to like you. ###### Message-ID: <38B4954F.362F@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <1DRs4.7312$Wv2.82456@news2.mia> <38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 30 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951358749 207.103.34.8 (Wed, 23 Feb 2000 19:19:09 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 19:19:09 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 02:19:09 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34165 PZ Myers wrote: > > In article , "Trish" > wrote: > > > Wally Anglesea wrote in message ... > > > > > >Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message > > >news:38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com... > > >> On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:51:23 -0500, "lorz" > > >> wrote: > > >> >You got that right. I had no lucid dream or OBE. (that I > > >> >remember) I was definitley heavy asleep last night. ARGH! I am > > >> >small and slight though and > > >> >have short ,blonde , yellowish hair. I was alone in bed last > > >> >night also.. though there may have been a cat or two > > >> >with me. > > >> > > >> Good! More hits! > > > > > >Except you saw here in bed with her husband. > > > > No Wally, she didn't. You're thinking of Janice. > > Janice was in bed with Lorz's husband? This OOBE 'talent' must be a > real prize for voyeurs! Wally was thinking of Julia's report of seeing me and my husband together, PZ - he admitted his mistake in the "COrRECTION" thread when he caught it. ###### From: "Lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <1DRs4.7312$Wv2.82456@news2.mia> <38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 47 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:04:40 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.78.240.36 X-Trace: news1.mia 951361679 216.78.240.36 (Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:07:59 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:07:59 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.atl!news1.mia.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34199 PZ Myers wrote in message news:myers-84370D.21055523022000@netnews.netaxs.com... : In article , "Trish" : wrote: : : > Wally Anglesea wrote in message ... : > > : > >Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message : > >news:38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com... : > >> On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 08:51:23 -0500, "lorz" : > >> wrote: : > >> >You got that right. I had no lucid dream or OBE. (that I : > >> >remember) I was definitley heavy asleep last night. ARGH! I am : > >> >small and slight though and : > >> >have short ,blonde , yellowish hair. I was alone in bed last : > >> >night also.. though there may have been a cat or two : > >> >with me. : > >> : > >> Good! More hits! : > > : > >Except you saw here in bed with her husband. : > : > No Wally, she didn't. You're thinking of Janice. : : Janice was in bed with Lorz's husband? This OOBE 'talent' must be a : real prize for voyeurs! Uhhhh nobody told me I had a husband??!! Nope, I do have a daughter though, and she was in her own bed last night.. and I believe Julia was referring to Janice's husband. I slept alone last night... didn't even have my beau with me! : : > : > : > >What you have just demonstrated is a very lame stage act once : > >perfomed by Doris Stokes. Did you ever see her in operation? : > > : > >There are a lot of lame stage acts that perfom a similar act as the : > >one you are doing here. : > : > : > ###### From: "Lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> <38B47328.144B@not-here.net> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 93 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:12:15 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.78.240.36 X-Trace: news1.mia 951362133 216.78.240.36 (Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:15:33 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:15:33 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.atl!news1.mia.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34198 Janice wrote in message news:38B47328.144B@not-here.net... : Wally Anglesea wrote: : > : > Janice wrote in message : > news:38B46143.5460@not-here.net... : > > PZ Myers wrote: : > > > : > > > In article <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net>, Janice : > > > wrote: : > > > : > > > > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: : > > > : > > > [snip] : > > > : > > > > > We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to find : > > > > > Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast : > asleep. : > > > > : > > > > Actually, my husband and I slept in separate rooms last night, as we : > > > > usually do. (I'm a very light sleeper and he snores too much for me! : > > > > Plus I go to bed at irregular hours.) My cat was beside me fast : > > > > asleep, if he counts. :) : > > > : > > > Note: "husband" was followed by a question mark. Are you keeping a : > > > secret from him? You wouldn't want to deny a 'hit' to poor Ms. : > > > Hawkes-Moore, now would you? : > > : > > Exsqueeze me, sir? I've mentioned my husband several times at this : > > newsgroup (he has even posted here a few times) so I saw no need : > > proclaim, "Yes, I do have a husband." Ms. Hawks-Moore can make up her : > > own mind as to what she chooses to consider a hit, but it's obvious that : > > she wasn't accurately perceiving my sleeping circumstances. : > : > : > Which means she was guessing based on previously obtained knowledge. It's : > OK, Doris Stokes used to do it as part of her "channeling stage act". IOW, : > it's baloney. There were enough misses and vague guesses in this "girls : > night out thing" to show that it was all just being made up. It's a pity : > that people try to deceive themselves this way. It happens in some of the : > messages my local cult kook does as well, and there's just as many misses. : > Make enough claims though, and you will always get a "hit". That's all we : > are seeing here. : : Actually, I don't really disagree with you in principle. I have done : many shared dreaming experiments and my conclusions about them in : general are pretty similar to yours. People tend to focus on the few : hits rather than the many misses, to look for symbolic parallels in the : absence of literal ones, and to come up with various rationalizations to : explain discrepancies. Fortunately, not all such people assume that : what they are seeing *must* be psychic parallelism; they try to be : open-minded and say maybe it is, maybe it isn't. Exactly, you go girl! hehe actually I figure when I do "see" you girls, it most likely will be what I picture in my head when I "see" you in the NG. I have a lot of customers all over the country who when I talk to on the phone I have a mental image of them. When I actually meet some of them, I am usually way off! But I suppose if I tried to see them in LD/OOB experience I would probably pull up that mental image that I have always had of them because there is no other image to choose from. But it is fun seeing what we come up with, mental images or not. Julia did have me right though... honest... I am small and blonde.. and I was out like a light last night and oblivious to all. Soooooo...Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't ... but I believe Julia to be honest. Lorene : : > Pity. : : Not necessarily. It illuminates an important facet of human psychology : - the tendency to construct big pictures out of small cues and to try to : make any data available fit into the desired picture in some way. (In : fact, it could be argued that you are doing the same thing, fitting this : incident neatly into your own existing picture.) This is, in my : opinion, the same basic process that constructs dreams to begin with. ###### Message-ID: <38B4B32E.651D@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> <38B47328.144B@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 94 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951366395 207.103.34.8 (Wed, 23 Feb 2000 21:26:35 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2000 21:26:35 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:26:36 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34169 Lorz wrote: > > Janice wrote in message > news:38B47328.144B@not-here.net... > : Wally Anglesea wrote: > : > > : > Janice wrote in message > : > news:38B46143.5460@not-here.net... > : > > PZ Myers wrote: > : > > > > : > > > In article <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net>, Janice > > : > > > wrote: > : > > > > : > > > > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > : > > > > : > > > [snip] > : > > > > : > > > > > We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to > find > : > > > > > Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast > : > asleep. > : > > > > > : > > > > Actually, my husband and I slept in separate rooms last night, as > we > : > > > > usually do. (I'm a very light sleeper and he snores too much for > me! > : > > > > Plus I go to bed at irregular hours.) My cat was beside me fast > : > > > > asleep, if he counts. :) > : > > > > : > > > Note: "husband" was followed by a question mark. Are you keeping a > : > > > secret from him? You wouldn't want to deny a 'hit' to poor Ms. > : > > > Hawkes-Moore, now would you? > : > > > : > > Exsqueeze me, sir? I've mentioned my husband several times at this > : > > newsgroup (he has even posted here a few times) so I saw no need > : > > proclaim, "Yes, I do have a husband." Ms. Hawks-Moore can make up her > : > > own mind as to what she chooses to consider a hit, but it's obvious > that > : > > she wasn't accurately perceiving my sleeping circumstances. > : > > : > > : > Which means she was guessing based on previously obtained knowledge. > It's > : > OK, Doris Stokes used to do it as part of her "channeling stage act". > IOW, > : > it's baloney. There were enough misses and vague guesses in this "girls > : > night out thing" to show that it was all just being made up. It's a > pity > : > that people try to deceive themselves this way. It happens in some of > the > : > messages my local cult kook does as well, and there's just as many > misses. > : > Make enough claims though, and you will always get a "hit". That's all > we > : > are seeing here. > : > : Actually, I don't really disagree with you in principle. I have done > : many shared dreaming experiments and my conclusions about them in > : general are pretty similar to yours. People tend to focus on the few > : hits rather than the many misses, to look for symbolic parallels in the > : absence of literal ones, and to come up with various rationalizations to > : explain discrepancies. Fortunately, not all such people assume that > : what they are seeing *must* be psychic parallelism; they try to be > : open-minded and say maybe it is, maybe it isn't. > > Exactly, you go girl! hehe actually I figure when I do "see" you girls, it > most likely will be what I picture in my head when I "see" you in the NG. I > have a lot of customers all over the country who when I talk to on the phone > I have a mental image of them. When I actually meet some of them, I am > usually way off! But I suppose if I tried to see them in LD/OOB experience I > would probably pull up that mental image that I have always had of them > because there is no other image to choose from. Either that, or your mind might substitute the image of someone you know who has the same name or who otherwise reminds you of the person you're trying to dream about. I've seen that happen. > But it is fun seeing what we come up with, mental images or not. Right. It's just fun. We're not attached to the psychic interpretation particularly. > Julia did have me right though... honest... I am small and blonde.. and I > was out like a light last night and oblivious to all. > Soooooo...Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't ... but I believe Julia to be > honest. Yes, Julia wasn't trying to trick us with a stage act; these were her honest perceptions, however she arrived at them and however accurate or inaccurate they turned out to be with relation to physical reality. Personally I was intrigued that she did pretty well with what Lorz and I look like, because I don't recall that happening before in experiments I've participated in of this nature. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 03:14:53 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 51 Message-ID: <38B4E87D.A5F@not-here.net> References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: async106.starlinx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34157 Izabela wrote: > > "Julia Hawkes-Moore" wrote in message > news:38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com... > > On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:47:16 GMT, "Trish" wrote: > > >But before I fell off to sleep for the night, I had been thinking of > work, > > >and reminding myself to bring home one of those new "gold" coins they've > > >just come out with. My son has been begging me for one, and I keep > > >forgetting to grab some out of the vault. > > > > Ha! This does sound like a hit to me, albeit a small one! > > Love from Julia. > > Hello Julia and girls, > > Thank you for posting your results in the news group. They are very > interesting and helpful. > I am in a small group for mutual and telepathic lucid (oob) dreaming. We > have our "meetings" every week and though at the beginning it looked as a > crazy impossible idea, now we are able to "hit" every time we dream. The > most difficult target for us is to see how we actually look. We live in > different countries, have never seen our photos and till now I was able only > once to describe one of the girls. Maybe you can help us with some ideas how > to do this. > > I just love the idea of carrying a small object as a way for verification > and will pass it on to the other people in the group. > Exactly this type of hits as with the "gold" coin is the most common in our > experience - when one of the group picks up the actual awaken thoughts of > somebody else. Sometimes this happens with an amazing accuracy. > > We have noticed an other strange phenomena in our dreaming. We have cases of > almost identical lucid dreams about visiting similar places and meeting each > other there, but with a gap of 2 - 3 days. The last time the difference was > almost a month. We are sure that they are not inspired by our reports, > because we find out about this accidentally, after we had the dreams. This > kind of shifts make us to think on how linear is the time at all and that > maybe the people have shared dreams much more often than we think. > I would be very glad to hear if something like this have happened to you too > and your opinion - do you think we can consider such shifted in time lucid > dreams as mutual. > > Best regards > Izabela I don't have any tips, really (it's been a long time since I was involved with shared dream experiments on a regular basis, and I can't say that my group was very successful with them at all). But I thought I'd refer you to Linda Magallon's book "Mutual Dreaming" on the off-chance that you aren't already familiar with it. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 03:27:41 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 24 Message-ID: <38B4EB7D.3FC9@not-here.net> References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: async106.starlinx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34183 PZ Myers wrote: > > In article <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net>, Janice > wrote: > > > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > [snip] > > > > We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to find > > > Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast asleep. > > > > Actually, my husband and I slept in separate rooms last night, as we > > usually do. (I'm a very light sleeper and he snores too much for me! > > Plus I go to bed at irregular hours.) My cat was beside me fast > > asleep, if he counts. :) > > Note: "husband" was followed by a question mark. Are you keeping a > secret from him? You wouldn't want to deny a 'hit' to poor Ms. > Hawkes-Moore, now would you? Oh, geeze, I think I finally understand what you meant by this. No, sorry, although I thought about my sweet "Peasy" from time to time I didn't sneak another man into my bedroom last night. ###### From: "Wally Anglesea" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> <38B47328.144B@not-here.net> <38B4B32E.651D@not-here.net> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 129 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 21:20:24 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.108.231.38 X-Trace: ozemail.com.au 951387593 203.108.231.38 (Thu, 24 Feb 2000 21:19:53 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 21:19:53 EST Organization: OzEmail Pty Ltd, Australia Distribution: world Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.ozemail.com.au!ozemail.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34205 Janice wrote in message news:38B4B32E.651D@not-here.net... > Lorz wrote: > > > > Janice wrote in message > > news:38B47328.144B@not-here.net... > > : Wally Anglesea wrote: > > : > > > : > Janice wrote in message > > : > news:38B46143.5460@not-here.net... > > : > > PZ Myers wrote: > > : > > > > > : > > > In article <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net>, Janice > > > > : > > > wrote: > > : > > > > > : > > > > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > : > > > > > : > > > [snip] > > : > > > > > : > > > > > We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to > > find > > : > > > > > Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast > > : > asleep. > > : > > > > > > : > > > > Actually, my husband and I slept in separate rooms last night, as > > we > > : > > > > usually do. (I'm a very light sleeper and he snores too much for > > me! > > : > > > > Plus I go to bed at irregular hours.) My cat was beside me fast > > : > > > > asleep, if he counts. :) > > : > > > > > : > > > Note: "husband" was followed by a question mark. Are you keeping a > > : > > > secret from him? You wouldn't want to deny a 'hit' to poor Ms. > > : > > > Hawkes-Moore, now would you? > > : > > > > : > > Exsqueeze me, sir? I've mentioned my husband several times at this > > : > > newsgroup (he has even posted here a few times) so I saw no need > > : > > proclaim, "Yes, I do have a husband." Ms. Hawks-Moore can make up her > > : > > own mind as to what she chooses to consider a hit, but it's obvious > > that > > : > > she wasn't accurately perceiving my sleeping circumstances. > > : > > > : > > > : > Which means she was guessing based on previously obtained knowledge. > > It's > > : > OK, Doris Stokes used to do it as part of her "channeling stage act". > > IOW, > > : > it's baloney. There were enough misses and vague guesses in this "girls > > : > night out thing" to show that it was all just being made up. It's a > > pity > > : > that people try to deceive themselves this way. It happens in some of > > the > > : > messages my local cult kook does as well, and there's just as many > > misses. > > : > Make enough claims though, and you will always get a "hit". That's all > > we > > : > are seeing here. > > : > > : Actually, I don't really disagree with you in principle. I have done > > : many shared dreaming experiments and my conclusions about them in > > : general are pretty similar to yours. People tend to focus on the few > > : hits rather than the many misses, to look for symbolic parallels in the > > : absence of literal ones, and to come up with various rationalizations to > > : explain discrepancies. Fortunately, not all such people assume that > > : what they are seeing *must* be psychic parallelism; they try to be > > : open-minded and say maybe it is, maybe it isn't. > > > > Exactly, you go girl! hehe actually I figure when I do "see" you girls, it > > most likely will be what I picture in my head when I "see" you in the NG. I > > have a lot of customers all over the country who when I talk to on the phone > > I have a mental image of them. When I actually meet some of them, I am > > usually way off! But I suppose if I tried to see them in LD/OOB experience I > > would probably pull up that mental image that I have always had of them > > because there is no other image to choose from. > > Either that, or your mind might substitute the image of someone you know > who has the same name or who otherwise reminds you of the person you're > trying to dream about. I've seen that happen. > > > But it is fun seeing what we come up with, mental images or not. > > Right. It's just fun. We're not attached to the psychic interpretation > particularly. > > > Julia did have me right though... honest... I am small and blonde.. and I > > was out like a light last night and oblivious to all. > > Soooooo...Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't ... but I believe Julia to be > > honest. > > Yes, Julia wasn't trying to trick us with a stage act; these were her > honest perceptions, however she arrived at them and however accurate or > inaccurate they turned out to be with relation to physical reality. Doris Stokes beleived she was right as well. > Personally I was intrigued that she did pretty well with what Lorz and I > look like, because I don't recall that happening before in experiments > I've participated in of this nature. Doris Stokes, and many stage magicians do it every day. I see no difference here. Sadly, it's intersting, but hardly controlled, and hardly evidence for anything paranormal. What I see is a shared fantasy. We used to do it as well in Uni. When you are closely associated to people, you can subconsciously do this. ###### Message-ID: <38B5163A.2605@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> <38B47328.144B@not-here.net> <38B4B32E.651D@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 69 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951391750 207.103.34.8 (Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:29:10 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 04:29:10 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 11:29:11 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34155 Wally Anglesea wrote: > > Janice wrote in message {snipped} > > > : Actually, I don't really disagree with you in principle. I have done > > > : many shared dreaming experiments and my conclusions about them in > > > : general are pretty similar to yours. People tend to focus on the few > > > : hits rather than the many misses, to look for symbolic parallels in > the > > > : absence of literal ones, and to come up with various rationalizations > to > > > : explain discrepancies. Fortunately, not all such people assume that > > > : what they are seeing *must* be psychic parallelism; they try to be > > > : open-minded and say maybe it is, maybe it isn't. > > > > > > Exactly, you go girl! hehe actually I figure when I do "see" you girls, > it > > > most likely will be what I picture in my head when I "see" you in the > NG. I > > > have a lot of customers all over the country who when I talk to on the > phone > > > I have a mental image of them. When I actually meet some of them, I am > > > usually way off! But I suppose if I tried to see them in LD/OOB > experience I > > > would probably pull up that mental image that I have always had of them > > > because there is no other image to choose from. > > > > Either that, or your mind might substitute the image of someone you know > > who has the same name or who otherwise reminds you of the person you're > > trying to dream about. I've seen that happen. > > > > > But it is fun seeing what we come up with, mental images or not. > > > > Right. It's just fun. We're not attached to the psychic interpretation > > particularly. > > > > > Julia did have me right though... honest... I am small and blonde.. and > I > > > was out like a light last night and oblivious to all. > > > Soooooo...Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't ... but I believe Julia to be > > > honest. > > > > Yes, Julia wasn't trying to trick us with a stage act; these were her > > honest perceptions, however she arrived at them and however accurate or > > inaccurate they turned out to be with relation to physical reality. > > Doris Stokes beleived she was right as well. Well, then, should whatever she did rightfully be called an act? "Act" implies a deliberate deception, to me. > > Personally I was intrigued that she did pretty well with what Lorz and I > > look like, because I don't recall that happening before in experiments > > I've participated in of this nature. > > Doris Stokes, and many stage magicians do it every day. I see no difference > here. Sadly, it's intersting, but hardly controlled, and hardly evidence for > anything paranormal. I agree. But that doesn't make it any less entertaining to me, or any less interesting from a psychological or folkloristic perspective. > What I see is a shared fantasy. We used to do it as > well in Uni. When you are closely associated to people, you can > subconsciously do this. Subconsciously? Could you elaborate, please? ###### From: John Fitzsimons Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 23:40:15 +1100 Organization: Optus Internet Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38b44c6c@nntp-out.newsnerds.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ocmax8-027.dialup.optusnet.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news1.mpx.com.au 951395938 10603 198.142.41.27 (24 Feb 2000 12:38:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@optusnet.com.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Feb 2000 12:38:58 GMT X-Posting-Agent: Hamster/1.3.13.0 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.542 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!HSNX.atgi.net!headwall.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.ozemail.com.au!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.mpx.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34237 On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 13:19:33 -0800, "dorothy dunne" wrote: < snip > >BTW, If PZ wants to know what my object is, he can e-mail me, and I'll send >him a description, as well as consider any other suggestions he may have.) < snip > Sounds sensible. If you were thinking of a few different things prior to sleep then this makes it much easier for people to guess. Sending details of ONE object to PZ is a much better idea. Regards, John. -- **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:633/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: "lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> <38B47328.144B@not-here.net> <38B4B32E.651D@not-here.net> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 144 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:45:03 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.78.240.21 X-Trace: news3.mia 951399922 216.78.240.21 (Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:45:22 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 08:45:22 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news3.mia.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34196 Wally Anglesea wrote in message ... : :Janice wrote in message :news:38B4B32E.651D@not-here.net... :> Lorz wrote: :> > :> > Janice wrote in message :> > news:38B47328.144B@not-here.net... :> > : Wally Anglesea wrote: :> > : > :> > : > Janice wrote in message :> > : > news:38B46143.5460@not-here.net... :> > : > > PZ Myers wrote: :> > : > > > :> > : > > > In article <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net>, Janice :> > :> > : > > > wrote: :> > : > > > :> > : > > > > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: :> > : > > > :> > : > > > [snip] :> > : > > > :> > : > > > > > We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia :to :> > find :> > : > > > > > Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was :fast :> > : > asleep. :> > : > > > > :> > : > > > > Actually, my husband and I slept in separate rooms last night, :as :> > we :> > : > > > > usually do. (I'm a very light sleeper and he snores too much :for :> > me! :> > : > > > > Plus I go to bed at irregular hours.) My cat was beside me :fast :> > : > > > > asleep, if he counts. :) :> > : > > > :> > : > > > Note: "husband" was followed by a question mark. Are you keeping :a :> > : > > > secret from him? You wouldn't want to deny a 'hit' to poor Ms. :> > : > > > Hawkes-Moore, now would you? :> > : > > :> > : > > Exsqueeze me, sir? I've mentioned my husband several times at :this :> > : > > newsgroup (he has even posted here a few times) so I saw no need :> > : > > proclaim, "Yes, I do have a husband." Ms. Hawks-Moore can make up :her :> > : > > own mind as to what she chooses to consider a hit, but it's :obvious :> > that :> > : > > she wasn't accurately perceiving my sleeping circumstances. :> > : > :> > : > :> > : > Which means she was guessing based on previously obtained knowledge. :> > It's :> > : > OK, Doris Stokes used to do it as part of her "channeling stage :act". :> > IOW, :> > : > it's baloney. There were enough misses and vague guesses in this :"girls :> > : > night out thing" to show that it was all just being made up. It's a :> > pity :> > : > that people try to deceive themselves this way. It happens in some :of :> > the :> > : > messages my local cult kook does as well, and there's just as many :> > misses. :> > : > Make enough claims though, and you will always get a "hit". That's :all :> > we :> > : > are seeing here. :> > : :> > : Actually, I don't really disagree with you in principle. I have done :> > : many shared dreaming experiments and my conclusions about them in :> > : general are pretty similar to yours. People tend to focus on the few :> > : hits rather than the many misses, to look for symbolic parallels in :the :> > : absence of literal ones, and to come up with various rationalizations :to :> > : explain discrepancies. Fortunately, not all such people assume that :> > : what they are seeing *must* be psychic parallelism; they try to be :> > : open-minded and say maybe it is, maybe it isn't. :> > :> > Exactly, you go girl! hehe actually I figure when I do "see" you girls, :it :> > most likely will be what I picture in my head when I "see" you in the :NG. I :> > have a lot of customers all over the country who when I talk to on the :phone :> > I have a mental image of them. When I actually meet some of them, I am :> > usually way off! But I suppose if I tried to see them in LD/OOB :experience I :> > would probably pull up that mental image that I have always had of them :> > because there is no other image to choose from. :> :> Either that, or your mind might substitute the image of someone you know :> who has the same name or who otherwise reminds you of the person you're :> trying to dream about. I've seen that happen. :> :> > But it is fun seeing what we come up with, mental images or not. :> :> Right. It's just fun. We're not attached to the psychic interpretation :> particularly. :> :> > Julia did have me right though... honest... I am small and blonde.. and :I :> > was out like a light last night and oblivious to all. :> > Soooooo...Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't ... but I believe Julia to be :> > honest. :> :> Yes, Julia wasn't trying to trick us with a stage act; these were her :> honest perceptions, however she arrived at them and however accurate or :> inaccurate they turned out to be with relation to physical reality. : :Doris Stokes beleived she was right as well. : :> Personally I was intrigued that she did pretty well with what Lorz and I :> look like, because I don't recall that happening before in experiments :> I've participated in of this nature. : :Doris Stokes, and many stage magicians do it every day. I see no difference :here. Sadly, it's intersting, but hardly controlled, and hardly evidence for :anything paranormal. What I see is a shared fantasy. We used to do it as :well in Uni. When you are closely associated to people, you can :subconsciously do this. hmmmm how do people do thi subconsiously in your opinion? : : : ###### From: myers@mac.com (PZ Myers) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 09:41:25 -0500 Organization: Myers Lab Lines: 33 Message-ID: References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B4EB7D.3FC9@not-here.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: bio-49.bio.temple.edu X-Trace: cronkite.temple.edu 951403032 13313 155.247.99.39 (24 Feb 2000 14:37:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@news.temple.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Feb 2000 14:37:12 GMT X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntp.upenn.edu!news.myxa.com!iad-feed.news.verio.net!news.temple.edu!myers Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34229 In article <38B4EB7D.3FC9@not-here.net>, Janice wrote: >PZ Myers wrote: >> >> In article <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net>, Janice >> wrote: >> >> > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: >> >> [snip] >> >> > > We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to find >> > > Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast asleep. >> > >> > Actually, my husband and I slept in separate rooms last night, as we >> > usually do. (I'm a very light sleeper and he snores too much for me! >> > Plus I go to bed at irregular hours.) My cat was beside me fast >> > asleep, if he counts. :) >> >> Note: "husband" was followed by a question mark. Are you keeping a >> secret from him? You wouldn't want to deny a 'hit' to poor Ms. >> Hawkes-Moore, now would you? > >Oh, geeze, I think I finally understand what you meant by this. No, >sorry, although I thought about my sweet "Peasy" from time to time I >didn't sneak another man into my bedroom last night. I don't know about that. You were *seen*, after all. I wouldn't want to be a skeptical old sourpuss and doubt the word of an eyewitness. People get mad around here when I do that. -- PZ Myers ###### Message-ID: <38B56ED4.44A3@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B4EB7D.3FC9@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 50 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951414433 207.103.34.8 (Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:47:13 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:47:13 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:47:13 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-east.rr.com!portc05.blue.aol.com!gw12.bcandid.com.MISMATCH!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34172 PZ Myers wrote: > > In article <38B4EB7D.3FC9@not-here.net>, Janice wrote: > > >PZ Myers wrote: > >> > >> In article <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net>, Janice > >> wrote: > >> > >> > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > >> > >> [snip] > >> > >> > > We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to find > >> > > Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast asleep. > >> > > >> > Actually, my husband and I slept in separate rooms last night, as we > >> > usually do. (I'm a very light sleeper and he snores too much for me! > >> > Plus I go to bed at irregular hours.) My cat was beside me fast > >> > asleep, if he counts. :) > >> > >> Note: "husband" was followed by a question mark. Are you keeping a > >> secret from him? You wouldn't want to deny a 'hit' to poor Ms. > >> Hawkes-Moore, now would you? > > > >Oh, geeze, I think I finally understand what you meant by this. No, > >sorry, although I thought about my sweet "Peasy" from time to time I > >didn't sneak another man into my bedroom last night. > > I don't know about that. You were *seen*, after all. I wouldn't want to be > a skeptical old sourpuss and doubt the word of an eyewitness. People get > mad around here when I do that. More likely they get mad when you lay on the heavy sarcasm and air of contempt, which most people, unlike myself, don't take to very kindly for some odd reason. While I am not 100% sure of exactly how Julia conceptualizes what she did last night, I am not convinced that she ever intended it to be taken as a literal observation of the rest of us as we were situated in the physical world. I think, although I could be wrong of course, that she was simply describing how things went in her meditative visualization OBE, much as Trish and I described how things went in our respective OBEs/OBE-type lucid dreams. Commonly, OBE experients consider their excursions to take place on what they call the astral level, which according to this perspective does not necessarily match the physical world closely at all. Of course, that makes the resulting experiences unverifiable from a scientific perspective. It also makes criticisms that the resulting experiences bear little resemblance to reality rather moot, since they were never intended to do so. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 14:18:37 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 62 Message-ID: <38B5840D.3ED6@not-here.net> References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B4EB7D.3FC9@not-here.net> <38B56ED4.44A3@not-here.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: async140.starlinx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34255 Janice wrote: > > PZ Myers wrote: > > > > In article <38B4EB7D.3FC9@not-here.net>, Janice wrote: > > > > >PZ Myers wrote: > > >> > > >> In article <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net>, Janice > > >> wrote: > > >> > > >> > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > >> > > >> [snip] > > >> > > >> > > We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to find > > >> > > Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast asleep. > > >> > > > >> > Actually, my husband and I slept in separate rooms last night, as we > > >> > usually do. (I'm a very light sleeper and he snores too much for me! > > >> > Plus I go to bed at irregular hours.) My cat was beside me fast > > >> > asleep, if he counts. :) > > >> > > >> Note: "husband" was followed by a question mark. Are you keeping a > > >> secret from him? You wouldn't want to deny a 'hit' to poor Ms. > > >> Hawkes-Moore, now would you? > > > > > >Oh, geeze, I think I finally understand what you meant by this. No, > > >sorry, although I thought about my sweet "Peasy" from time to time I > > >didn't sneak another man into my bedroom last night. > > > > I don't know about that. You were *seen*, after all. I wouldn't want to be > > a skeptical old sourpuss and doubt the word of an eyewitness. People get > > mad around here when I do that. > > More likely they get mad when you lay on the heavy sarcasm and air of > contempt, which most people, unlike myself, don't take to very kindly > for some odd reason. > > While I am not 100% sure of exactly how Julia conceptualizes what she > did last night, I am not convinced that she ever intended it to be taken > as a literal observation of the rest of us as we were situated in the > physical world. I think, although I could be wrong of course, that she > was simply describing how things went in her meditative visualization > OBE, much as Trish and I described how things went in our respective > OBEs/OBE-type lucid dreams. Commonly, OBE experients consider their > excursions to take place on what they call the astral level, which > according to this perspective does not necessarily match the physical > world closely at all. Of course, that makes the resulting experiences > unverifiable from a scientific perspective. It also makes criticisms > that the resulting experiences bear little resemblance to reality rather > moot, since they were never intended to do so. Besides, Julia's perception of me in bed with a man whom she was not confident was my husband was obviously yet another strong symbolic indication of my previously indicated repressed desire to seduce you on the astral, PZ. My astral self really gave the game away this time, showing her the referential peas that so blatantly encode your initials. ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:58:18 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom Lines: 25 Message-ID: <38b59a0c.621751@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B4EB7D.3FC9@not-here.net> <38B56ED4.44A3@not-here.net> Reply-To: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com NNTP-Posting-Host: useras10.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 951426444 1034 62.188.137.14 (24 Feb 2000 21:07:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Feb 2000 21:07:24 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34298 On Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:47:13 GMT, Janice wrote: >While I am not 100% sure of exactly how Julia conceptualizes what she >did last night, I am not convinced that she ever intended it to be taken >as a literal observation of the rest of us as we were situated in the >physical world. I think, although I could be wrong of course, that she >was simply describing how things went in her meditative visualization >OBE, much as Trish and I described how things went in our respective >OBEs/OBE-type lucid dreams. Commonly, OBE experients consider their >excursions to take place on what they call the astral level, which >according to this perspective does not necessarily match the physical >world closely at all. Of course, that makes the resulting experiences >unverifiable from a scientific perspective. It also makes criticisms >that the resulting experiences bear little resemblance to reality rather >moot, since they were never intended to do so. Exactly. I do Astral Travel, not Remote Viewing. I am more likely to pick up a thought-form or memory from the people I visit than I am to identify the photo on the cover of a book. Or I see something which used to be there but is now gone, as when I clearly identified the pattern on Jim William's old curtains, failing to see the new ones he put up the previous week. Curtain design is not particularly interesting to me, any more than it is to anyone else. But I do enjoy glimpsing a face, a sudden memory or an emotion from my friends. It makes the world seem to be a smaller and more manageable place. Love from Julia. ###### From: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com (Julia Hawkes-Moore) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 21:08:45 GMT Organization: UUNET WorldCom server (post doesn't reflect views of UUNET WorldCom Lines: 47 Message-ID: <38b59b7f.992989@news.dial.pipex.com> References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> Reply-To: hawksmoor@dial.pipex.com NNTP-Posting-Host: useran45.uk.uudial.com X-Trace: lure.pipex.net 951427072 1680 62.188.135.62 (24 Feb 2000 21:17:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uk.uu.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Feb 2000 21:17:52 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.1/16.230 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!news-lond.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!peer.news.th.u-net.net!u-net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!tube.news.pipex.net!pipex!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34303 On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:54:57 GMT, Janice wrote: >Actually, my husband and I slept in separate rooms last night, as we >usually do. (I'm a very light sleeper and he snores too much for me! >Plus I go to bed at irregular hours.) My cat was beside me fast >asleep, if he counts. :) Perhaps he was the question mark. Yes, I was aware that you had a man in your home but I couldn't remember his name, and I don't remember whether you referred to him as your husband or not; English courtesy demands that one hedges around the issue of marital status these days! But cats have an odd existence in the Astral. They are not entirely there; they seem to have a paw in both realities, so to speak. I regularly visited a friend in Florida, who knew exactly whenever I arrived, as her cat always went mad and bounced around the room, alarmed and defensive but not scared or aggressive. >"Bigger built" is probably true, since I'm a little overweight just now, >but I'm only 5' 4" tall. "Loose brown wavy hair" is accurate (my hair >is also quite long). 5' 4" seems tallish to my teensy 5' ! But then, perhaps like you, people have often described my personality as occupying more than my allotted physical space! >> Janice was dreaming, and the most conscious of everyone I met. > >I'm sure I was the most conscious, because I was lying in bed pretty >much awake at the time (I'll be posting a report in the "Mirror, Mirror" >thread shortly). There. I have found it difficult to contact people who were awake or asleep (whether dreaming or not) but I have been able to contact people in a deep meditative state. They are more aware and 'switched on' and in control of their thoughts and actions. >> I showed her my object and she held it for a few moments. Then she >> gave me an odd thing: a green pea pod, split slightly open so that I >> could see a row of fat green peas inside. > >That doesn't resemble the object I had in mind at all, I'm afraid. The >only association I have to that is our skeptic friend PZ (aka "Peasy" to >some)! :D Ha! I think you are letting him prey on your mind, Janice! Love from Julia. ###### From: "Wally Anglesea" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> <38B47328.144B@not-here.net> <38B4B32E.651D@not-here.net> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 84 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: <1cjt4.33131$3b6.160374@ozemail.com.au> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:50:48 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.108.231.250 X-Trace: ozemail.com.au 951435133 203.108.231.250 (Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:32:13 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:32:13 EST Organization: OzEmail Pty Ltd, Australia Distribution: world Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.ozemail.com.au!ozemail.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34290 lorz wrote in message news:SBat4.22423$zu3.164287@news3.mia... > > :anything paranormal. What I see is a shared fantasy. We used to do it as > :well in Uni. When you are closely associated to people, you can > :subconsciously do this. > > hmmmm how do people do thi subconsiously in your opinion? In answer to both yourself and Janice, The subconcious is quite capable of putting 2 and 2 togther from seeming unrelated facts. Deductive reasoning is something we all do. If you are working with people who are of a "like mind" for instance, a collective "reality" re-inforces peoples beleifs, and more importantly, information relayed through casual means is "kept on the backburner". The best way I can describe it is as follows: Imagine you are a close freind of someone, and I mean for years. You both give up chocolate at the same time, without telling each other at all. Sometime later you both succumb to temptation and pig out on chocolate, again without the other person knowing. Thhis actually happened to me. However, upon looking through our circumstances, and our behaviour patterns, it became obvious that we were sending each other "signals". (and no, they were not zits!!) By the way, we were 2 guys. We were mates for a long time, and we perfomed "magic tricks" and mind reading, and memory tricks all the time, and we got so good at it we oonce thought of going professional, but we thought it more worthwhile to expose frauds. Did we develop psychic powers? Of course not, we just got good at reading each others expressions, body language, and psyche. We'd trigger things. When he got an inoperable brain tumour, I knew what books to bring to read to him in the last 18 months of his life. I knew what books, because we'd been close for years. Psychic? nope. Now as for deductive reasoning. Have a look at one of the FBI profiler books, in particular "Anatomy of Motive", admitteldy, these guys train themselves, but they take seemingly unrelated data and turn it into a bloody close picture. I forget who, but there was a chemist who had a dream about a snake eating itself, and he figured out how the benzene molecule looked. Snakes is pretty freudian imagery, not real good at describing benzene. Now as for Doris, imagine this act (you have to imagine a high pitched english accent): Doris:"Does someone here remember a Michael?" Audience members (who are expecting something), several put up their hands. Doris: "I'm getting a message from him [other side]" most of the audience put their habds down, because their michaels are not dead. Doris to the remainder "It's a message for someone called Jennie" All the audience puts their hands down Doris: "He's got a message for a freind called Jennie" Amazingly, one of the audience members actually knows a Jennie!!!! (now it's not established wether jennie is a next-door neighbour or someone they used go to Bingo with) Doris: "He said to make sure the dog is taken to the vets, there may be something wrong" Ausdience applaudes. A Positive Hit!!! See what I mean, and she knew no-one in the audience. I used to do the same thing. We once studied Doris. ONce in Australia, she only got a 40% hit rate, but the audience thought she was genuine. She was having a bad day, because normally using these techniques I used to be able to get about 75%. And I don't hear spirit voices. ###### From: "Wally Anglesea" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B4EB7D.3FC9@not-here.net> <38B56ED4.44A3@not-here.net> <38B5840D.3ED6@not-here.net> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 84 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: <3cjt4.33132$3b6.160374@ozemail.com.au> Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 08:53:36 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.108.231.250 X-Trace: ozemail.com.au 951435135 203.108.231.250 (Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:32:15 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 10:32:15 EST Organization: OzEmail Pty Ltd, Australia Distribution: world Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.ozemail.com.au!ozemail.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34291 Janice wrote in message news:38B5840D.3ED6@not-here.net... > Janice wrote: > > > > PZ Myers wrote: > > > > > > In article <38B4EB7D.3FC9@not-here.net>, Janice wrote: > > > > > > >PZ Myers wrote: > > > >> > > > >> In article <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net>, Janice > > > >> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > > >> > > > >> [snip] > > > >> > > > >> > > We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to find > > > >> > > Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast asleep. > > > >> > > > > >> > Actually, my husband and I slept in separate rooms last night, as we > > > >> > usually do. (I'm a very light sleeper and he snores too much for me! > > > >> > Plus I go to bed at irregular hours.) My cat was beside me fast > > > >> > asleep, if he counts. :) > > > >> > > > >> Note: "husband" was followed by a question mark. Are you keeping a > > > >> secret from him? You wouldn't want to deny a 'hit' to poor Ms. > > > >> Hawkes-Moore, now would you? > > > > > > > >Oh, geeze, I think I finally understand what you meant by this. No, > > > >sorry, although I thought about my sweet "Peasy" from time to time I > > > >didn't sneak another man into my bedroom last night. > > > > > > I don't know about that. You were *seen*, after all. I wouldn't want to be > > > a skeptical old sourpuss and doubt the word of an eyewitness. People get > > > mad around here when I do that. > > > > More likely they get mad when you lay on the heavy sarcasm and air of > > contempt, which most people, unlike myself, don't take to very kindly > > for some odd reason. > > > > While I am not 100% sure of exactly how Julia conceptualizes what she > > did last night, I am not convinced that she ever intended it to be taken > > as a literal observation of the rest of us as we were situated in the > > physical world. I think, although I could be wrong of course, that she > > was simply describing how things went in her meditative visualization > > OBE, much as Trish and I described how things went in our respective > > OBEs/OBE-type lucid dreams. Commonly, OBE experients consider their > > excursions to take place on what they call the astral level, which > > according to this perspective does not necessarily match the physical > > world closely at all. Of course, that makes the resulting experiences > > unverifiable from a scientific perspective. It also makes criticisms > > that the resulting experiences bear little resemblance to reality rather > > moot, since they were never intended to do so. > > > > Besides, Julia's perception of me in bed with a man whom she was not > confident was my husband was obviously yet another strong symbolic > indication of my previously indicated repressed desire to seduce you on > the astral, PZ. My astral self really gave the game away this time, > showing her the referential peas that so blatantly encode your initials. > > Actually I found it reasonably worth a giggle. Freudian, but worth a giggle. :-)) Careful though, if you were a Catholic, you had just commited adultery (Astrally). ###### From: PZ Myers Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:45:21 -0500 Organization: newsread.com ISP News Reading Service (http://www.newsread.com) Lines: 30 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B4EB7D.3FC9@not-here.net> <38B56ED4.44A3@not-here.net> <38B5840D.3ED6@not-here.net> <3cjt4.33132$3b6.160374@ozemail.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: dyn-60.blackbox-3.netaxs.com User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Homepage: http://homepage.mac.com/myers/ X-Face: .k!7leh{iTz*Ah$8`'u'O$.4Z9+jOYL|yvi39v4fL-Un]RqYdDRAg*#o{3f|Mkzf8+}'2AmMD7_7`BM/X]H1nvmSDn*M0vfiwKn^3R[Kr_o*'>L@wBpFy>X&moPw, "Wally Anglesea" wrote: > Janice wrote in message > news:38B5840D.3ED6@not-here.net... > > Janice wrote: > > > [snip] > > > > > > Besides, Julia's perception of me in bed with a man whom she was not > > confident was my husband was obviously yet another strong symbolic > > indication of my previously indicated repressed desire to seduce you on > > the astral, PZ. My astral self really gave the game away this time, > > showing her the referential peas that so blatantly encode your > > initials. > > > > > > Actually I found it reasonably worth a giggle. Freudian, but worth a > giggle. > :-)) > > > Careful though, if you were a Catholic, you had just commited adultery > (Astrally). Not with me, she sure didn't. And I'm an amoral atheist. ###### Message-ID: <38B5C354.634F@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38b59b7f.992989@news.dial.pipex.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 55 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951436065 207.103.34.8 (Thu, 24 Feb 2000 16:47:45 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 16:47:45 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 23:47:45 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!cyclone-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-east.rr.com!portc05.blue.aol.com!gw12.bcandid.com.MISMATCH!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34250 Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 20:54:57 GMT, Janice wrote: > >Actually, my husband and I slept in separate rooms last night, as we > >usually do. (I'm a very light sleeper and he snores too much for me! > >Plus I go to bed at irregular hours.) My cat was beside me fast > >asleep, if he counts. :) > > Perhaps he was the question mark. Yes, I was aware that you had a > man in your home but I couldn't remember his name, and I don't > remember whether you referred to him as your husband or not; English > courtesy demands that one hedges around the issue of marital status > these days! > But cats have an odd existence in the Astral. They are not entirely > there; they seem to have a paw in both realities, so to speak. > I regularly visited a friend in Florida, who knew exactly whenever > I arrived, as her cat always went mad and bounced around the room, > alarmed and defensive but not scared or aggressive. I guess mine is not terribly sensitive, since he slept like a brick. > >"Bigger built" is probably true, since I'm a little overweight just now, > >but I'm only 5' 4" tall. "Loose brown wavy hair" is accurate (my hair > >is also quite long). > > 5' 4" seems tallish to my teensy 5' ! But then, perhaps like you, > people have often described my personality as occupying more than my > allotted physical space! My personality is almost self-effacing around people. It only shines through in correspondence and in dreams. > >> Janice was dreaming, and the most conscious of everyone I met. > > > >I'm sure I was the most conscious, because I was lying in bed pretty > >much awake at the time (I'll be posting a report in the "Mirror, Mirror" > >thread shortly). > > There. I have found it difficult to contact people who were awake or > asleep (whether dreaming or not) but I have been able to contact > people in a deep meditative state. They are more aware and 'switched > on' and in control of their thoughts and actions. > > >> I showed her my object and she held it for a few moments. Then she > >> gave me an odd thing: a green pea pod, split slightly open so that I > >> could see a row of fat green peas inside. > > > >That doesn't resemble the object I had in mind at all, I'm afraid. The > >only association I have to that is our skeptic friend PZ (aka "Peasy" to > >some)! :D > > Ha! I think you are letting him prey on your mind, Janice! > Love from Julia. Just a passing fancy, I'm sure. :D ###### Message-ID: <38B5CED3.4D9F@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> <38B47328.144B@not-here.net> <38B4B32E.651D@not-here.net> <1cjt4.33131$3b6.160374@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 104 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951439009 207.103.34.8 (Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:36:49 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:36:49 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 00:36:50 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!enews.sgi.com!nntp.msen.com!206.132.58.120.MISMATCH!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34263 Wally Anglesea wrote: > > lorz wrote in message > news:SBat4.22423$zu3.164287@news3.mia... > > > > > :anything paranormal. What I see is a shared fantasy. We used to do it as > > :well in Uni. When you are closely associated to people, you can > > :subconsciously do this. > > > > hmmmm how do people do thi subconsiously in your opinion? > > In answer to both yourself and Janice, > > The subconcious is quite capable of putting 2 and 2 togther from seeming > unrelated facts. Deductive reasoning is something we all do. If you are > working with people who are of a "like mind" for instance, a collective > "reality" re-inforces peoples beleifs, and more importantly, information > relayed through casual means is "kept on the backburner". The best way I > can describe it is as follows: Imagine you are a close freind of someone, > and I mean for years. You both give up chocolate at the same time, without > telling each other at all. Sometime later you both succumb to temptation > and pig out on chocolate, again without the other person knowing. Thhis > actually happened to me. However, upon looking through our circumstances, > and our behaviour patterns, it became obvious that we were sending each > other "signals". (and no, they were not zits!!) By the way, we were 2 > guys. > > We were mates for a long time, and we perfomed "magic tricks" and mind > reading, and memory tricks all the time, and we got so good at it we oonce > thought of going professional, but we thought it more worthwhile to expose > frauds. Did we develop psychic powers? Of course not, we just got good at > reading each others expressions, body language, and psyche. We'd trigger > things. > > When he got an inoperable brain tumour, I knew what books to bring to read > to him in the last 18 months of his life. I knew what books, because we'd > been close for years. Psychic? nope. When I was seven years old, our schoolteacher one day decided to experiment with the class by having us all pick out an object in the room while she was out in the hall, then concentrate on it when she came back in to see if she could psychically determine the correct item. I don't remember how well or poorly she did, but in any case, afterwards my best friend and I decided to do our own psychic experiment out in the schoolyard. We took turns concentrating on individual crayon colors from the standard Crayola box of 64 colors (I don't know if you have those in Australia or not, but you'll get the idea). We both amazed ourselves by being able to guess, with dead-on accuracy, which color the other child was thinking of. And we were careful to pick oddball colors, too, like "periwinkle" and "blue-green" - nothing so prosaic as "red" or "black." But like you say, it seemed less like a psychic receipt of information than a matter of shrewd guessing because we knew each other's tastes and whims so well (right down to the fact that we were sure to be perverse enough to pick oddball colors). > Now as for deductive reasoning. Have a look at one of the FBI profiler > books, in particular "Anatomy of Motive", admitteldy, these guys train > themselves, but they take seemingly unrelated data and turn it into a bloody > close picture. > > I forget who, but there was a chemist who had a dream about a snake eating > itself, and he figured out how the benzene molecule looked. Snakes is > pretty freudian imagery, not real good at describing benzene. That was Friedrich Kekule. It was more of a hypnagogic image, if I remember right, that arose while he was dozing by the fire after he had been brooding over what the structure of the benzene molecule might look like for some time. > Now as for Doris, imagine this act (you have to imagine a high pitched > english accent): > > Doris:"Does someone here remember a Michael?" > Audience members (who are expecting something), several put up their hands. > > Doris: "I'm getting a message from him [other side]" > most of the audience put their habds down, because their michaels are not > dead. > > Doris to the remainder "It's a message for someone called Jennie" > > All the audience puts their hands down > > Doris: "He's got a message for a freind called Jennie" > > Amazingly, one of the audience members actually knows a Jennie!!!! > (now it's not established wether jennie is a next-door neighbour or someone > they used go to Bingo with) > Doris: "He said to make sure the dog is taken to the vets, there may be > something wrong" > > Ausdience applaudes. A Positive Hit!!! > > See what I mean, and she knew no-one in the audience. I used to do the same > thing. > > We once studied Doris. ONce in Australia, she only got a 40% hit rate, but > the audience thought she was genuine. She was having a bad day, because > normally using these techniques I used to be able to get about 75%. And I > don't hear spirit voices. An interesting tale. This falls under the rubric of "cold reading," then? ###### Message-ID: <38B5D05F.7747@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B4EB7D.3FC9@not-here.net> <38B56ED4.44A3@not-here.net> <38B5840D.3ED6@not-here.net> <3cjt4.33132$3b6.160374@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951439404 207.103.34.8 (Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:43:24 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:43:24 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 00:43:24 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!blackbush.xlink.net!unlisys!news.snafu.de!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-east.rr.com!portc05.blue.aol.com!gw12.bcandid.com.MISMATCH!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34253 Wally Anglesea wrote: > > Janice wrote in message {slurp} > > > > > > > > Besides, Julia's perception of me in bed with a man whom she was not > > confident was my husband was obviously yet another strong symbolic > > indication of my previously indicated repressed desire to seduce you on > > the astral, PZ. My astral self really gave the game away this time, > > showing her the referential peas that so blatantly encode your initials. > > > > > > Actually I found it reasonably worth a giggle. Freudian, but worth a > giggle. > :-)) Most Freudianisms are worth a giggle if you ask me. I get great length out of them. (Oops, there goes another one.) > Careful though, if you were a Catholic, you had just commited adultery > (Astrally). I'm far from Catholic, which is fortunate since if one were to tally up all my past dream liaisons I would be saying Hail Marys and Pater Nosters for the rest of my natural life. ###### Message-ID: <38B5D88C.57AA@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B4EB7D.3FC9@not-here.net> <38B56ED4.44A3@not-here.net> <38B5840D.3ED6@not-here.net> <3cjt4.33132$3b6.160374@ozemail.com.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 34 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951441497 207.103.34.8 (Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:18:17 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 18:18:17 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 01:18:17 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!netnews.com!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34261 PZ Myers wrote: > > In article <3cjt4.33132$3b6.160374@ozemail.com.au>, "Wally Anglesea" > wrote: > > > Janice wrote in message > > news:38B5840D.3ED6@not-here.net... > > > Janice wrote: > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > > > > > > Besides, Julia's perception of me in bed with a man whom she was not > > > confident was my husband was obviously yet another strong symbolic > > > indication of my previously indicated repressed desire to seduce you on > > > the astral, PZ. My astral self really gave the game away this time, > > > showing her the referential peas that so blatantly encode your > > > initials. > > > > > > > > > > Actually I found it reasonably worth a giggle. Freudian, but worth a > > giggle. > > :-)) > > > > > > Careful though, if you were a Catholic, you had just commited adultery > > (Astrally). > > Not with me, she sure didn't. And I'm an amoral atheist. Oh, no! Not an amorous atheist! Everyone take cover! ###### Message-ID: <38B5FC1C.209F@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B4EB7D.3FC9@not-here.net> <38B56ED4.44A3@not-here.net> <38B5840D.3ED6@not-here.net> <3cjt4.33132$3b6.160374@ozemail.com.au> <38B5D05F.7747@not-here.net> <38B5F4D7.FB5F0A5@Home.com> <38B5F77D.80E8B2E3@Home.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 5 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951450600 207.103.34.8 (Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:50:00 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 24 Feb 2000 20:50:00 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 03:50:02 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-east.rr.com!portc05.blue.aol.com!gw12.bcandid.com.MISMATCH!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34259 TienYen wrote: > > Forgot to add: is your cat male? Male, but neutered. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 06:06:52 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 32 Message-ID: <38B6624C.1F4E@not-here.net> References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B4EB7D.3FC9@not-here.net> <38B56ED4.44A3@not-here.net> <38b59a0c.621751@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: async99.starlinx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!newspeer.monmouth.com!pln-e!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34254 Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote: > > On Thu, 24 Feb 2000 17:47:13 GMT, Janice wrote: > >While I am not 100% sure of exactly how Julia conceptualizes what she > >did last night, I am not convinced that she ever intended it to be taken > >as a literal observation of the rest of us as we were situated in the > >physical world. I think, although I could be wrong of course, that she > >was simply describing how things went in her meditative visualization > >OBE, much as Trish and I described how things went in our respective > >OBEs/OBE-type lucid dreams. Commonly, OBE experients consider their > >excursions to take place on what they call the astral level, which > >according to this perspective does not necessarily match the physical > >world closely at all. Of course, that makes the resulting experiences > >unverifiable from a scientific perspective. It also makes criticisms > >that the resulting experiences bear little resemblance to reality rather > >moot, since they were never intended to do so. > > Exactly. I do Astral Travel, not Remote Viewing. I am more likely > to pick up a thought-form or memory from the people I visit than I am > to identify the photo on the cover of a book. Or I see something which > used to be there but is now gone, as when I clearly identified the > pattern on Jim William's old curtains, failing to see the new ones he > put up the previous week. Curtain design is not particularly > interesting to me, any more than it is to anyone else. But I do enjoy > glimpsing a face, a sudden memory or an emotion from my friends. It > makes the world seem to be a smaller and more manageable place. > Love from Julia. Well, I'm glad I got that right. For the hard-boiled skeptics out there: think of it as kind of a "chick thing." :D ###### From: jason.watson@clear.net.nz (Rainbow Warrior) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Message-ID: <38b66f3c.9509981@news.clear.net.nz> References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 12 Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 12:02:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.167.241.66 X-Complaints-To: abuse@clear.net.nz X-Trace: news.clear.net.nz 951481193 203.167.241.66 (Sat, 26 Feb 2000 01:19:53 NZDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 01:19:53 NZDT Organization: CLEAR Net http://www.clear.net.nz/ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!europa.netcrusader.net!205.231.236.10!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.clear.net.nz!news.clear.net.nz.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34288 Hi Wally Anglesea, On Thu, 24 Feb 2000 10:20:58 +1100 in alt.out-of-body you wrote: >Which means she was guessing based on previously obtained knowledge. Hey Wally... YOU guess again! tehehehehehe "I once knew a man who cut off his nose to spite his face, funny thing, 'cause he still smelt the same to me!" Rainbow Warrior - Your peace is my piece. ###### From: John Fitzsimons Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 23:06:04 +1100 Organization: Optus Internet Lines: 36 Message-ID: <0ipbbs0pspeikkcev4mbcckd28ssd2k327@4ax.com> References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> <38B47328.144B@not-here.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: ocmax5-236.dialup.optusnet.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news1.mpx.com.au 951480275 28499 198.142.38.236 (25 Feb 2000 12:04:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@optusnet.com.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Feb 2000 12:04:35 GMT X-Posting-Agent: Hamster/1.3.13.0 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.542 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!enews.sgi.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!news.mel.connect.com.au!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.mpx.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34312 On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:12:15 -0500, "Lorz" wrote: < snip > >Julia did have me right though... honest... I am small A small woman ? How unusual. Maybe Wally could give us a percentage for the number of women who would fit that description ? As I am over 6' I would put the percentage as close to 100%. :-) >and blonde.. If one guessed that then the chances of being "correct" would be....? Where are those da$#ed skeptics when you want them ! ? >and I >was out like a light last night and oblivious to all. >Soooooo...Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't ... but I believe Julia to be >honest. I don't think anyone is suggesting that Julie is purposely dishonest. That however doesn't mean she isn't inaccurate, guessing or self deluded. That applies to us all, however it helps to keep these things in mind. >Lorene Regards, John. -- **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:633/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: John Fitzsimons Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 23:06:04 +1100 Organization: Optus Internet Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <1DRs4.7312$Wv2.82456@news2.mia> <38b40a27.984915@news.dial.pipex.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ocmax5-236.dialup.optusnet.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news1.mpx.com.au 951480277 28499 198.142.38.236 (25 Feb 2000 12:04:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@optusnet.com.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Feb 2000 12:04:37 GMT X-Posting-Agent: Hamster/1.3.13.0 X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.542 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.mpx.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34313 On Thu, 24 Feb 2000 02:18:26 GMT, "Trish" wrote: >PZ Myers wrote in message ... < snip > >>> >Except you saw here in bed with her husband. >>> No Wally, she didn't. You're thinking of Janice. >>Janice was in bed with Lorz's husband? This OOBE 'talent' must be a >>real prize for voyeurs! >Hahahaha. If you weren't such a shit I might learn to like you. No need to be shy Trish. Why not tell us what you REALLY think ? < he he > :- D Regards, John. -- **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:633/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: "Lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> <38B47328.144B@not-here.net> <0ipbbs0pspeikkcev4mbcckd28ssd2k327@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 51 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 17:22:10 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.77.205.213 X-Trace: news4.mia 951517492 216.77.205.213 (Fri, 25 Feb 2000 17:24:52 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 17:24:52 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed.tli.de!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news4.mia.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34355 John Fitzsimons wrote in message news:0ipbbs0pspeikkcev4mbcckd28ssd2k327@4ax.com... : On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:12:15 -0500, "Lorz" wrote: : : < snip > : : >Julia did have me right though... honest... I am small : : A small woman ? How unusual. Maybe Wally could give us a percentage : for the number of women who would fit that description ? As I am over : 6' I would put the percentage as close to 100%. :-) Actually , I think I have read or heard that most women are considered overweight.. something like 75 or 80%, no? : : and blonde.. well, lets see.. there's brunette and red head..so... but really I believe I stated I was blonde once in the NG....dont know if Julia saw that and subconsciously remember or not though. : If one guessed that then the chances of being "correct" would be....? : Where are those da$#ed skeptics when you want them ! ? : : >and I : >was out like a light last night and oblivious to all. : >Soooooo...Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't ... but I believe Julia to be : >honest. : : I don't think anyone is suggesting that Julie is purposely dishonest. : That however doesn't mean she isn't inaccurate, guessing or self : deluded. : : That applies to us all, however it helps to keep these things in mind. : : >Lorene : : Regards, John. : : -- : **************************************************** : ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. : / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:633/309 : \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm : v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: MHABON@EARTHLINK.NET (Martin Habon Jr.) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Message-ID: <38b7448d.17161631@news.earthlink.net> References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 84 Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 03:26:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.25.37.70 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 951535594 63.25.37.70 (Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:26:34 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 19:26:34 PST Organization: EarthLink Network, Inc. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34373 Trish, what was your point of view on this adventure with your three other friends? On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 12:47:16 GMT, "Trish" wrote: > >Julia Hawkes-Moore wrote in message ><38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com>... >> After the practice vist I mentioned to Trish earlier, I had an >>unusually dream-free night's sleep. The alarm clock woke me, and I lay >>down to meditate about 6.15 am, Wednesday 23 Feb 2000, UK GMT . >> >> I held the object I wished to show the girls in my left hand, lying >>on my chest. In my right hand, I held my selenite wand to the crown of >>my head, to give me extra energy. I asked my Angel to guide and help >>me. >> As my body relaxed and I began to float up, I steered myself up >>through the ceiling, attic and roof, and out into the pale foggy sky. >>I carried on rising unil I could see Great Britain laid out below me, >>then I set off towards America, continuing to rise up in an arc until >>I could see the shape of the continent. I aimed for Trish in Florida, >>calling her name, and saw my target glow like a red light, towards the >>middle of the state (N-S), but to the West side. >> Trish was sleeping when I arrived in her room, alone in a double >>bed with light-coloured bedding, sprawled out all over the width of >>the bed. She was pale, slim and with a tangle of dark waves and loose >>curls. I tried to scan her room, but for everyone this part remained >>foggy; perhaps I had given myself too much to do. I should have called >>'Clarity now', I suppose! >> I showed Trish my image, and tried to collect hers; as I wrote >>above: "the object which I later 'collected' from you was circular. It >>was solid, like a disc, medal or coin, but I could see no patterns on >>it, too fuzzy." >> Anyway, I then pulled Trish's hands and pulled her up into the sky, >>saying the we were going to go and find Lorene. She was not far away, >>but was heavily asleep, and the least lucid of all of us. But I was >>very gentle, and Trish and I both held Lorene's hands, careful not to >>let her get frightened at all. Lorene was small and slight, with short >>blonde almost yellow hair. I think she was alone but I am not certain >>of this. >> I showed Lorene my object, and waved it in her face, but she was >>oblivious of it, and had no image to show me. >> We then all flew under my angel's wings to Philadelphia to find >>Janice. Janice was asleep beside a man (husband?) who was fast asleep. >>She was bigger built and taller than the others, with loose brown wavy >>hair. Janice was dreaming, and the most conscious of everyone I met. >>I showed her my object and she held it for a few moments. Then she >>gave me an odd thing: a green pea pod, split slightly open so that I >>could see a row of fat green peas inside. >> She held hands with Trish, Trish and I with Lorene, and we all flew >>high up into the sky to locate Dorothy. Trish seemed to know >>whereabouts she was, so we flew to her red light target. This was >>inland, about a third of the way across the States from the West >>coast, about two-thirds of the way up towards the North. >> My visit to Dorothy was rather foggy; I have little recollection of >>her or of her room. But I showed her my object, and then she showed me >>hers; it was small, about six inches high, flared out at the top like >>a wine glass, but it was made of brass-like metal. I wondered whether >>it could be a small cup, chalice or trophy, but then she turned it >>upside-down and shook it, and it chimed, so I think it was a small >>handbell. >> We then returned to drop off Janice, then Lorene, and then I gave >>Trish a hug and returned her to her bed and sleeping sprawling body. >>Before I left each person, I gave her a blessing of enveloping white >>light. >> Then I flew home, emerged from meditation, stretched, and opened my >>eyes just in time for my son to come in for his wake-up cuddle. I am >>sorry that there was so much fog; when I got up and threw back the >>curtains, there was thick white fog all around my house, so it must >>have been seeping into the Astral! >>Love from Julia. > >The rest of my night was virtually dream free - or nothing that I could >recollect. > >But before I fell off to sleep for the night, I had been thinking of work, >and reminding myself to bring home one of those new "gold" coins they've >just come out with. My son has been begging me for one, and I keep >forgetting to grab some out of the vault. > >Trish > > ###### From: jason.watson@clear.net.nz (Rainbow Warrior) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Message-ID: <38b75ad0.6217739@news.clear.net.nz> References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 11 Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 04:47:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.167.240.143 X-Complaints-To: abuse@clear.net.nz X-Trace: news.clear.net.nz 951541509 203.167.240.143 (Sat, 26 Feb 2000 18:05:09 NZDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 18:05:09 NZDT Organization: CLEAR Net http://www.clear.net.nz/ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.clear.net.nz!news.clear.net.nz.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34361 Hi PZ Myers, On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 16:52:17 -0500 in alt.out-of-body you wrote: >> Ha! This does sound like a hit to me, albeit a small one! >Bleh. Sounds more like an attempt at retrofitting, to me. YEAH Julia, bah humbug! Pfttt. pfttttttt... tehehehe :) Rainbow Warrior - Your peace is my piece. ###### From: jason.watson@clear.net.nz (Rainbow Warrior) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Message-ID: <38b75adf.6233284@news.clear.net.nz> References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B463E4.3A78@not-here.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 15 Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 04:47:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.167.240.143 X-Complaints-To: abuse@clear.net.nz X-Trace: news.clear.net.nz 951541525 203.167.240.143 (Sat, 26 Feb 2000 18:05:25 NZDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 18:05:25 NZDT Organization: CLEAR Net http://www.clear.net.nz/ Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news-peer.gip.net!news-stock.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news.iprolink.co.nz!news!newsfeed.clear.net.nz!news.clear.net.nz.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34363 Hi Janice, On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:48:18 GMT in alt.out-of-body you wrote: >"Retrofitting" - that's a good word. Yes, in my experience people >attempting to digest the results of shared dreaming experiments do >exhibit a tendency to try to make all sorts of little things fit into >the picture. Another good point Janice (I've lost count how many that is!), extrapolating this thesis, this would tend to make ANY interpretation of dreams (and any symbology there within) highly dubious, am I understanding you correctly? Rainbow Warrior - Your peace is my piece. ###### Message-ID: <38B76D71.7B5A@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38b3da0f.467192@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B463E4.3A78@not-here.net> <38b75adf.6233284@news.clear.net.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951545148 207.103.34.8 (Fri, 25 Feb 2000 23:05:48 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Feb 2000 23:05:48 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 06:05:49 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!intermedia!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34333 Rainbow Warrior wrote: > > Hi Janice, > > On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:48:18 GMT in alt.out-of-body you wrote: > > >"Retrofitting" - that's a good word. Yes, in my experience people > >attempting to digest the results of shared dreaming experiments do > >exhibit a tendency to try to make all sorts of little things fit into > >the picture. > > Another good point Janice (I've lost count how many that is!), > extrapolating this thesis, this would tend to make ANY interpretation > of dreams (and any symbology there within) highly dubious, am I > understanding you correctly? Yes, in my opinion. That's not to say you can't come up with some interesting and meaningful interpretations. But I think you're usually putting the meaning there yourself. ###### From: "Trish" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38b7448d.17161631@news.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 20 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: X-Trace: /Kkf2LtaAlYXuCDG/CvIro33s2Kn+MeYf/CQ90jLm0nWhpYiWFf8pkz+18vrZfGtoPCLUPjSOCH1!CDjH6FpcUhjU6mRbL4fVCTCqFxpV9TpK4VAiHgBPyMmdyDIzM5lCsCCEYjfUEpuHA4qB1iDQolt6!p57B X-Complaints-To: abuse@gte.net X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:13:30 GMT Distribution: world Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:13:30 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34381 Martin Habon Jr. wrote in message <38b7448d.17161631@news.earthlink.net>... >Trish, what was your point of view on this adventure with your three >other friends? I think much of it is retrofitting (a new word - thanks to Wally), but anyone would do so in comparing one experience to another to see what fits and what doesn't. Qualification for "hits" is dependent on individual interpretation, as there really is no control with this type of experimenting. But something interesting happened with Julia and Dorothy. They both visualized a brass object originating with Dorothy. When you think of all the dreams and visions the imagination could conjure, the odds were against them. How did they get it so close? ###### Message-ID: <38B8387B.5EF0@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38b7448d.17161631@news.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 9 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951597125 207.103.34.8 (Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:32:05 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 13:32:05 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 20:32:06 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34417 Trish wrote: > > Martin Habon Jr. wrote in message <38b7448d.17161631@news.earthlink.net>... > >Trish, what was your point of view on this adventure with your three > >other friends? > > I think much of it is retrofitting (a new word - thanks to Wally) No, that was PZ's word. ###### Message-ID: <38b86fed_1@news9.calweb.com> From: John M Price PhD Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38b7448d.17161631@news.earthlink.net> Organization: his very own desk! Distribution: world X-Connection: C-Ker-mit 5A(191) 32 bit for OS/2 (usually) X-Operating-System: OS/2 - Warped of course. X-Clamation: Whoa, dogs! X-Hale: only. X-PGP-Key: ftp://ftp.calweb.com/users/j/jmprice/pgp-key-john-m-price User-Agent: tin/1.4.1-19991201 ("Polish") (UNIX) (FreeBSD/3.4-RC (i386)) NNTP-Posting-Host: web1.calweb.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: web1.calweb.com Date: 26 Feb 2000 16:29:33 -0800 X-Trace: 26 Feb 2000 16:29:33 -0800, web1.calweb.com Lines: 42 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: news.calweb.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!cleanfeed.inet.tele.dQ!netscum.int!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!calwebnntp!calwebnnrp!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34434 In alt.out-of-body article Trish wrote: : Martin Habon Jr. wrote in message <38b7448d.17161631@news.earthlink.net>... :>Trish, what was your point of view on this adventure with your three :>other friends? : I think much of it is retrofitting (a new word - thanks to Wally), but : anyone would do so in comparing one experience to another to see what fits : and what doesn't. Qualification for "hits" is dependent on individual : interpretation, as there really is no control with this type of : experimenting. This is why people like Randi set out the proceudres, and acceptable results, before the experiment, and in conjunction with the testee. That way all things are clear as to the proposed skill, and the test thereof. : But something interesting happened with Julia and Dorothy. They both : visualized a brass object originating with Dorothy. When you think of all : the dreams and visions the imagination could conjure, the odds were against : them. How did they get it so close? Well, visit a Peir 1 sometime. Bras abounds, even in object form! -- John M. Price, PhD jmprice@calweb.com Life: Chemistry, but with feeling! | PGP Key on request or FTP! Email responses to my Usenet articles will be posted at my discretion. Comoderator: sci.psychology.psychotherapy.moderated Atheist# 683 Syndicate Section III - Number 1 This is what bothers me so much about philosophy ... Because it is one of the "humanities," it feels compelled to attach itself to old-fashioned human notions, such as conventional time, making it difficult for the rest of us who feel no such compulsion. It seems to me that philosophy must come to the realization that everyday human ideas have little to do with what really matters in the scheme of things, since human beings are a negligible component of reality. Only then will it begin to make progress toward understanding the ultimate. - Vic Stenger ###### Message-ID: <38B8C5FE.4F52@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38b7448d.17161631@news.earthlink.net> <38b86fed_1@news9.calweb.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 951633353 207.103.34.8 (Sat, 26 Feb 2000 23:35:53 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2000 23:35:53 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2000 06:35:54 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!naxos.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.eurocyber.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-east.rr.com!portc05.blue.aol.com!gw12.bcandid.com.MISMATCH!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34422 John M Price PhD wrote: > > In alt.out-of-body article Trish wrote: > > : Martin Habon Jr. wrote in message <38b7448d.17161631@news.earthlink.net>... > :>Trish, what was your point of view on this adventure with your three > :>other friends? > > : I think much of it is retrofitting (a new word - thanks to Wally), but > : anyone would do so in comparing one experience to another to see what fits > : and what doesn't. Qualification for "hits" is dependent on individual > : interpretation, as there really is no control with this type of > : experimenting. > > This is why people like Randi set out the proceudres, and acceptable > results, before the experiment, and in conjunction with the testee. That > way all things are clear as to the proposed skill, and the test thereof. Which is all very well when one is actually seeking to test paranormal claims. What we did here was really more of a social affair, all in good fun. Better, I think, to look at it for what it really is rather than to focus on what it is not and deem it lacking. ###### X-Posting-Agent: Hamster/1.3.13.0 From: John Fitzsimons Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Message-ID: References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38b7448d.17161631@news.earthlink.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.542 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 08:20:19 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.26.98.222 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 951859245 203.26.98.222 (Wed, 01 Mar 2000 08:20:45 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 08:20:45 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:34632 On Sat, 26 Feb 2000 14:13:30 GMT, "Trish" wrote: < snip > >But something interesting happened with Julia and Dorothy. They both >visualized a brass object originating with Dorothy. When you think of all >the dreams and visions the imagination could conjure, the odds were against >them. How did they get it so close? Telepathy. Regards, John. -- **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:633/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### X-Posting-Agent: Hamster/1.3.13.0 From: John Fitzsimons Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Message-ID: References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> <38B47328.144B@not-here.net> <0ipbbs0pspeikkcev4mbcckd28ssd2k327@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.542 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 39 Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 10:47:03 +1100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.26.98.222 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 952386343 203.26.98.222 (Tue, 07 Mar 2000 10:45:43 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 10:45:43 EST Organization: Customer of Telstra Big Pond Direct Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:35220 On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 17:22:10 -0500, "Lorz" wrote: >John Fitzsimons wrote in message >news:0ipbbs0pspeikkcev4mbcckd28ssd2k327@4ax.com... >: On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:12:15 -0500, "Lorz" wrote: >: < snip > >: >Julia did have me right though... honest... I am small >: A small woman ? How unusual. Maybe Wally could give us a percentage >: for the number of women who would fit that description ? As I am over >: 6' I would put the percentage as close to 100%. :-) >Actually , I think I have read or heard that most women are considered >overweight.. something like 75 or 80%, no? < snip > Don't think that percentage would apply in India. In any case wouldn't a 5' tall overweight woman be termed "small" ? It would depend on whether one meant "small" to refer to height or girth. When one is trying to "retrofit" information the more "vague" the meaning the easier it is to make it fit. For a "hit" the original comment would have needed to say "small in girth" or "small in height". Even then, of course, it could simply be a guess. Regards, John. -- **************************************************** ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:633/309 \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ ###### From: Shaking Hell Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Organization: collection60@hotmail.kom References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> <38B47328.144B@not-here.net> <0ipbbs0pspeikkcev4mbcckd28ssd2k327@4ax.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: ('6#W3M0VcTo"48.W9C'HH[]}D;ZATZ;(K~h4&sqcUp(NpxUQKztt93LZ(hMQ fp[:%MK!c2S<7'Ix>7fum|@@+m;v]O}!`+Rg@pmO,1K@=D\|:tUx.1f}#!Jb>$v4!3B7 5y}=X\oO+7!v/`>7$0-n4I>9[D;$BlY)$hw#Yg|f&DLl"r-%v9Hi(-a&$CrP1/*V|6m] ?y"O*bT`sw@nd<_L!l2e>*95Q>&/A6B-)AW-#g/saJ|t/arNjaLt.0di4Fl Message-ID: Lines: 37 Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 00:31:53 +0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.60.207 X-Complaints-To: news-admin@dircon.co.uk X-Trace: news.dircon.co.uk 952389148 194.112.60.207 (Tue, 07 Mar 2000 00:32:28 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 07 Mar 2000 00:32:28 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!easynet-melon!easynet-uk!easynet.net!peer1.news.dircon.net!peer2.news.dircon.net!news.dircon.co.uk.POSTED!asdfg Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:35210 John Fitzsimons wrote: > On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 17:22:10 -0500, "Lorz" > wrote: >> John Fitzsimons wrote in message news : On >> Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:12:15 -0500, "Lorz" wrote: >>>> Julia did have me right though... honest... I am small >>> A small woman ? How unusual. Maybe Wally could give us a percentage >>> for the number of women who would fit that description ? As I am >>> over 6' I would put the percentage as close to 100%. :-) >> Actually , I think I have read or heard that most women are >> considered overweight.. something like 75 or 80%, no? > Don't think that percentage would apply in India. In any case > wouldn't a 5' tall overweight woman be termed "small" ? > It would depend on whether one meant "small" to refer to height or > girth. When one is trying to "retrofit" information the more "vague" > the meaning the easier it is to make it fit. > For a "hit" the original comment would have needed to say "small in > girth" or "small in height". Even then, of course, it could simply be > a guess. > Regards, John. -- http://members.tripod.com/LanTheBoy Email: Anti-chaos. ICQ://26027485 doomdoomdoomdoomdoom................... zink %%%%%%%The Darkness will love you, the Darkness will take care of you%%%%%%%% ###### From: "Lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> <38B47328.144B@not-here.net> <0ipbbs0pspeikkcev4mbcckd28ssd2k327@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 59 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 19:51:48 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.77.205.225 X-Trace: news1.mia 952390500 216.77.205.225 (Mon, 06 Mar 2000 19:55:00 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 19:55:00 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news1.mia.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:35158 John Fitzsimons wrote in message news:e1g8cs0nsqipuu76oa5dsdt1at45b8k727@4ax.com... : On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 17:22:10 -0500, "Lorz" wrote: : : : >John Fitzsimons wrote in message : >news:0ipbbs0pspeikkcev4mbcckd28ssd2k327@4ax.com... : >: On Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:12:15 -0500, "Lorz" wrote: : : >: < snip > : : >: >Julia did have me right though... honest... I am small : : >: A small woman ? How unusual. Maybe Wally could give us a percentage : >: for the number of women who would fit that description ? As I am over : >: 6' I would put the percentage as close to 100%. :-) : : >Actually , I think I have read or heard that most women are considered : >overweight.. something like 75 or 80%, no? : : < snip > : : Don't think that percentage would apply in India. In any case wouldn't : a 5' tall overweight woman be termed "small" ? I dont think so... that would be a SHORT woman maybe but not small. : : It would depend on whether one meant "small" to refer to height or : girth. When one is trying to "retrofit" information the more "vague" : the meaning the easier it is to make it fit. No... I think short would refer to height , where small would refer to size, no? : : For a "hit" the original comment would have needed to say "small in : girth" or "small in height". Even then, of course, it could simply be : a guess. Sure it could have been a guess, but I think the odds would have better in her favor had she guessed me NOT small, and she also said blonde.... : : Regards, John. : : -- : **************************************************** : ,-._|\ John Fitzsimons - Melbourne, Australia. : / Oz \ johnf@melbpc.org.au, Fidonet 3:633/309 : \_,--.x/ http://www.vicnet.net.au/~johnf/welcome.htm : v http://www.alphalink.com.au/~johnf/ Lorene ###### From: "Lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> <38B47328.144B@not-here.net> <0ipbbs0pspeikkcev4mbcckd28ssd2k327@4ax.com> <38C45681.C496ACAC@Home.com> Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Lines: 52 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 20:21:20 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.77.205.225 X-Trace: news1.mia 952392272 216.77.205.225 (Mon, 06 Mar 2000 20:24:32 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 06 Mar 2000 20:24:32 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news1.mia.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:35159 Tien Yen wrote in message news:38C45681.C496ACAC@Home.com... : Forget to actually *type* anything in that reply, LanBoy? Wierd but his "nothing" posts seem to be showing up a lot.... hmmmm : : Shaking Hell wrote: : > : > John Fitzsimons wrote: : > : > > On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 17:22:10 -0500, "Lorz" : > > wrote: : > : > >> John Fitzsimons wrote in message news : On : > >> Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:12:15 -0500, "Lorz" wrote: : > : > >>>> Julia did have me right though... honest... I am small : > : > >>> A small woman ? How unusual. Maybe Wally could give us a percentage : > >>> for the number of women who would fit that description ? As I am : > >>> over 6' I would put the percentage as close to 100%. :-) : > : > >> Actually , I think I have read or heard that most women are : > >> considered overweight.. something like 75 or 80%, no? : > : > > Don't think that percentage would apply in India. In any case : > > wouldn't a 5' tall overweight woman be termed "small" ? : > : > > It would depend on whether one meant "small" to refer to height or : > > girth. When one is trying to "retrofit" information the more "vague" : > > the meaning the easier it is to make it fit. : > : > > For a "hit" the original comment would have needed to say "small in : > > girth" or "small in height". Even then, of course, it could simply be : > > a guess. : > : > > Regards, John. : > : > -- : > http://members.tripod.com/LanTheBoy : > Email: Anti-chaos. ICQ://26027485 : > : > doomdoomdoomdoomdoom................... : > zink : > %%%%%%%The Darkness will love you, the Darkness will take care of you%%%%%%%% ###### From: Stacey-Lynn Tomlinson Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Date: 7 Mar 2000 05:10:22 GMT Organization: Carleton University, Ottawa, Canada Lines: 12 Message-ID: <38C49102.B7323293@chat.carleton.ca> References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> <38B47328.144B@not-here.net> <0ipbbs0pspeikkcev4mbcckd28ssd2k327@4ax.com> <38C45681.C496ACAC@Home.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp39.annex9.carleton.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!torn!cunews!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:35163 Lorz wrote: > Wierd but his "nothing" posts seem to be showing up a lot.... hmmmm > Seems to me that none of his posts have anything intelligent to say....well that's a bit harsh...maybe posts of no substance. Sincerely, Stacey-Lynn ###### From: Shaking Hell Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Girls' night out trip report. Organization: collection60@hotmail.kom References: <38b39dde.5043048@news.dial.pipex.com> <38B44951.20BA@not-here.net> <38B46143.5460@not-here.net> <%WZs4.32404$3b6.157016@ozemail.com.au> <38B47328.144B@not-here.net> <0ipbbs0pspeikkcev4mbcckd28ssd2k327@4ax.com> <38C45681.C496ACAC@Home.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: ('6#W3M0VcTo"48.W9C'HH[]}D;ZATZ;(K~h4&sqcUp(NpxUQKztt93LZ(hMQ fp[:%MK!c2S<7'Ix>7fum|@@+m;v]O}!`+Rg@pmO,1K@=D\|:tUx.1f}#!Jb>$v4!3B7 5y}=X\oO+7!v/`>7$0-n4I>9[D;$BlY)$hw#Yg|f&DLl"r-%v9Hi(-a&$CrP1/*V|6m] ?y"O*bT`sw@nd<_L!l2e>*95Q>&/A6B-)AW-#g/saJ|t/arNjaLt.0di4Fl Message-ID: Lines: 53 Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 00:01:02 +0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.112.61.109 X-Complaints-To: news-admin@dircon.co.uk X-Trace: news.dircon.co.uk 952473697 194.112.61.109 (Wed, 08 Mar 2000 00:01:37 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 08 Mar 2000 00:01:37 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.icl.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!peer.news.zetnet.net!easynet-uk!easynet.net!peer1.news.dircon.net!peer2.news.dircon.net!news.dircon.co.uk.POSTED!asdfg Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:35286 In article <38C45681.C496ACAC@Home.com>, Tien Yen wrote: >Forget to actually *type* anything in that reply, LanBoy? OK, asshole >Shaking Hell wrote: >> >> John Fitzsimons wrote: >> >> > On Fri, 25 Feb 2000 17:22:10 -0500, "Lorz" >> > wrote: >> >> >> John Fitzsimons wrote in message news : On >> >> Wed, 23 Feb 2000 22:12:15 -0500, "Lorz" wrote: >> >> >>>> Julia did have me right though... honest... I am small >> >> >>> A small woman ? How unusual. Maybe Wally could give us a percentage >> >>> for the number of women who would fit that description ? As I am >> >>> over 6' I would put the percentage as close to 100%. :-) >> >> >> Actually , I think I have read or heard that most women are >> >> considered overweight.. something like 75 or 80%, no? >> >> > Don't think that percentage would apply in India. In any case >> > wouldn't a 5' tall overweight woman be termed "small" ? >> >> > It would depend on whether one meant "small" to refer to height or >> > girth. When one is trying to "retrofit" information the more "vague" >> > the meaning the easier it is to make it fit. >> >> > For a "hit" the original comment would have needed to say "small in >> > girth" or "small in height". Even then, of course, it could simply be >> > a guess. >> >> > Regards, John. >> >> -- >> http://members.tripod.com/LanTheBoy >> Email: Anti-chaos. ICQ://26027485 >> >> doomdoomdoomdoomdoom................... >> zink >> %%%%%%%The Darkness will love you, the Darkness will take care of you%%%%%%%% -- http://members.tripod.com/LanTheBoy Email: Anti-chaos. ICQ://26027485 doomdoomdoomdoomdoom................... zink %%%%%%%The Darkness will love you, the Darkness will take care of you%%%%%%%%