From: Mr Paul Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: How did you get started into OOBEs? Intentionally? Spontaneously? (newbie) Message-ID: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 84 Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 22:47:44 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.26.91.23 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 950417408 204.26.91.23 (Sat, 12 Feb 2000 22:50:08 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Feb 2000 22:50:08 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:33514 Hi all, I'm Paul! = ) I'm a newbie to this group and hope I'm not asking a remedial question or that I'm typing about stuff that isn't interesting to others. I'm just curious how you guys got started into OOBEs. My background: I'd always been interested in parapsychology and paranormal stuff. I wrote a paper (for myself, not for school) about auras and physical material recording intense psychic events when I was in gradeschool even though I'd never been formally taught what auras were or ever heard about psychometry. I'm 22 now, one morning 2 years ago I had the most bizarre dream that I woke up to. I saw a man in a castle-looking room sitting and meditating on a red rug. I felt some connection to him, he was older than me and the connection was so strong that I concluded it may be me in the future doing mental time travel. I have always been interested in time theory and always thought if time travel were to happen, it would be technological. So I came to a fork and recognized I had to make a decision of how to interpret my dream. 1) Is mental time travel impossible or 2) is it possible (not necessarily the the dream was time travel) 3) it is possible (and the dream was an example of it). I decided to go with #2 for the simple reason that "it's more interesting." My fiancee was who got me interested in OOBEs: I met her and the second time we went out we did some meditations together and some really strange stuff happened (quick summary: we had a mutual meditative experience, we both saw the same series of scenes from the opposite sides - me from the male, her the female. we did more meditations and got these character's names and looked them up in history... it turns out I'm related to him and I believe he was the person who contacted me through time -- his name is Lord Edward Herbert Of Chirbury and a metaphysical poet and a contemporary of DesCarte.) So, I was opened up even more than I already was. I've had some psychic experiences as well. But I was never able to get an OOBE even though I was really interested in having one. I tried and tried and NOTHING. Then I stopped. A few weeks after stopping, I became aware of myself where I felt that I wasn't dreaming and I slowly sank through my bed and continued down through the floor and the dirt. I wasn't all too impressed. Then just recently (months and months after my first experience) I had a spontaneous OOBE. I was on vacation with a friend and sleeping on a couch. I woke up at 5 in the morning and couldn't fall back asleep, but I slipped into the most vivid and erotic fantasy I'd ever had. My body felt like it was "doing the snake" breakdance move, except it felt like I had no bones in my body. Jello rippling how I visualize energy. I opened my eyes and realized I was about 4 feet off the couch and my feet were several feet above my head (body at a slant). I said, "Hooray! I'm finally out of body! Now what do I do." I didn't want to go too far or do anything too incredible, just keep it simple. I decided I wanted to float over to the corner of the room. As soon as I made that decision I heard the question, "Do you really want to do that?" I had been unsure of what I was doing, and here was the audible voice of doubt and just the question alone was enough to show me I didn't have the will power to move myself (or I could've seen it as a challenge that I could've conquered) I said, "I want to go back in my body now" I heard a sound like a 6" piece of wood being cut on a table saw and I jolted back. My hands tingled and I was very unsure of how much I had been physically moving and thought I must've looked like a fool doing the snake on the couch to my friend who was sleeping on the floor. = ) The questions: How did you start? Intentionally? Spontaneously? What types of things do you typically do while out of body? Have you noticed if certain times of the day work better for you? (my fiancee typically does it around 2 in the afternoon) Is it possible to have an OOBE while physically aware? (I had a really, REALLY odd experience -- involving conscious manipulation of physical reality, psychic cleansing, psychic communication (with a number of witnesses) -- that I'm still trying to find an explanation for. It's a long story and I don't think it's related to OOBEs so I'm not including it here.) Sorry if this is too long or not enough on topic. Just let me know to guide my future posts. Paul PS: Books I've enjoyed most: The Holographic Universe -- Michael Talbot The Einstein Factor -- Win Wenger, PhD Currently reading: A Brief History of Everything -- Ken Wilber ###### From: "Cary Thomson" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How did you get started into OOBEs? Intentionally? Spontaneously? (newbie) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 20:28:00 +1300 Organization: The Internet Group Ltd Lines: 42 Message-ID: <885mfk$h3k$1@news.ihug.co.nz> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p20-max9.wlg.ihug.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ihug.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:33465 Mr Paul wrote in message news:s6bcasoj9gtf2f3nmvbp248ovs5qdkevj8@4ax.com... > Hi all, I'm Paul! = ) > > The questions: > How did you start? Intentionally? Spontaneously? > I started about five years ago by having lucid dreams (I can't remember now what got me started on them). To my surprise, I often ended up having OOBE's instead. (The two experiences are certainly very different for me). > What types of things do you typically do while out of body? > I gave up for a while, and have only just got back into it this year. At the moment I am crawling along the floor, but I hope to be able to improve on that with more practice! > Have you noticed if certain times of the day work better for you? (my > fiancee typically does it around 2 in the afternoon) > Hmm, probably around 3am-8am. > Is it possible to have an OOBE while physically aware? (I had a > really, REALLY odd experience -- involving conscious manipulation of > physical reality, psychic cleansing, psychic communication (with a > number of witnesses) -- that I'm still trying to find an explanation > for. It's a long story and I don't think it's related to OOBEs so I'm > not including it here.) > I don't know. > Sorry if this is too long or not enough on topic. Just let me know to > guide my future posts. > Paul > > PS: Books I've enjoyed most: > The Holographic Universe -- Michael Talbot > The Einstein Factor -- Win Wenger, PhD > Currently reading: A Brief History of Everything -- Ken Wilber ###### Message-ID: <38A6E292.6A1B@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How did you get started into OOBEs? Intentionally? Spontaneously? (newbie) References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 950461030 207.103.34.8 (Sun, 13 Feb 2000 09:57:10 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 09:57:10 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 16:57:11 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!cyclone-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-east.rr.com!portc05.blue.aol.com!gw12.bcandid.com.MISMATCH!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:33443 Mr Paul wrote: > > The questions: > How did you start? Intentionally? Spontaneously? I started having OBE sensations spontaneously at age 13, on the order of a leg floating up in the air at an angle through the bed covers or an arm stretching across the room. > What types of things do you typically do while out of body? I'm not convinced that I literally leave the body, but basically I just go outside and play around in a dream version of my town. > Have you noticed if certain times of the day work better for you? (my > fiancee typically does it around 2 in the afternoon) When I was doing this extensively, I'd say my best time frame was 11:00 AM till 2:00 PM. > Is it possible to have an OOBE while physically aware? (I had a > really, REALLY odd experience -- involving conscious manipulation of > physical reality, psychic cleansing, psychic communication (with a > number of witnesses) -- that I'm still trying to find an explanation > for. It's a long story and I don't think it's related to OOBEs so I'm > not including it here.) Don't know. My OBEs seem to be a kind of lucid dream. ###### From: Janice Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How did you get started into OOBEs? Intentionally? Spontaneously? (newbie) Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 15:46:21 -0500 Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 16 Message-ID: <38A7181D.2E64@not-here.net> References: <885mfk$h3k$1@news.ihug.co.nz> NNTP-Posting-Host: async179.starlinx.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:33516 Cary Thomson wrote: > > What types of things do you typically do while out of body? > > > I gave up for a while, and have only just got back into it this year. At the > moment I am crawling along the floor, but I hope to be able to improve on > that with more practice! I can empathize, since I've had quite a few such experiences where I had to crawl not only along the floor but all the way across the lawn and across the street to a nearby building before gaining normal control over my dream body! (I think I told you over in alt.dreams.lucid what you might want to do about it, didn't it?) One day you may find yourself starting to get the exact opposite kind of experience - instead of being heavy and sluggish you'll be too nebulous and airy. That's a little better, but still annoying. ###### From: "Cary Thomson" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How did you get started into OOBEs? Intentionally? Spontaneously? (newbie) Date: Mon, 14 Feb 2000 11:03:53 +1300 Organization: The Internet Group Ltd Lines: 32 Message-ID: <8879q0$ejh$1@news.ihug.co.nz> References: <885mfk$h3k$1@news.ihug.co.nz> <38A7181D.2E64@not-here.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: p34-max3.wlg.ihug.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!ihug.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:33550 Janice wrote in message news:38A7181D.2E64@not-here.net... > Cary Thomson wrote: > > > > What types of things do you typically do while out of body? > > > > > I gave up for a while, and have only just got back into it this year. At the > > moment I am crawling along the floor, but I hope to be able to improve on > > that with more practice! > > I can empathize, since I've had quite a few such experiences where I had > to crawl not only along the floor but all the way across the lawn and > across the street to a nearby building before gaining normal control > over my dream body! (I think I told you over in alt.dreams.lucid what > you might want to do about it, didn't it?) It was here, but I have started posting in alt.dreams.lucid too. Thanks again for those suggestions. I expect that, like any new skill, practice will be required. I'm also suspicious that my _expectations_ about what "should" happen and what I can do are influencing what does occur. >One day you may find > yourself starting to get the exact opposite kind of experience - instead > of being heavy and sluggish you'll be too nebulous and airy. That's a > little better, but still annoying. I can't wait :-( ###### Message-ID: <38A740A6.7DCB@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: How did you get started into OOBEs? Intentionally? Spontaneously? (newbie) References: <885mfk$h3k$1@news.ihug.co.nz> <38A7181D.2E64@not-here.net> <8879q0$ejh$1@news.ihug.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 37 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 950485114 207.103.34.8 (Sun, 13 Feb 2000 16:38:34 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 16:38:34 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 23:38:35 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:33521 Cary Thomson wrote: > > Janice wrote in message > news:38A7181D.2E64@not-here.net... > > Cary Thomson wrote: > > > > > > What types of things do you typically do while out of body? > > > > > > > I gave up for a while, and have only just got back into it this year. At > the > > > moment I am crawling along the floor, but I hope to be able to improve > on > > > that with more practice! > > > > I can empathize, since I've had quite a few such experiences where I had > > to crawl not only along the floor but all the way across the lawn and > > across the street to a nearby building before gaining normal control > > over my dream body! (I think I told you over in alt.dreams.lucid what > > you might want to do about it, didn't it?) > > It was here, but I have started posting in alt.dreams.lucid too. Thanks > again for those suggestions. I expect that, like any new skill, practice > will be required. I'm also suspicious that my _expectations_ about what > "should" happen and what I can do are influencing what does occur. Yeah, those darned expectations ... :) > >One day you may find > > yourself starting to get the exact opposite kind of experience - instead > > of being heavy and sluggish you'll be too nebulous and airy. That's a > > little better, but still annoying. > > I can't wait :-( Offhand I would guess that I've had more sluggish than nebulous OBE/WILD things myself. In one of them I crawled head first out the window and down the wall, like Dracula. That was a neat effect. ###### From: "Lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: Subject: Re: How did you get started into OOBEs? Intentionally? Spontaneously? (newbie) Lines: 54 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 18:51:44 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.77.205.202 X-Trace: news2.mia 950486059 216.77.205.202 (Sun, 13 Feb 2000 18:54:19 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 13 Feb 2000 18:54:19 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.atl.bellsouth.net.MISMATCH!newsfeed.atl!news2.mia.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:33531 Mr Paul wrote in message news:s6bcasoj9gtf2f3nmvbp248ovs5qdkevj8@4ax.com... : Hi all, I'm Paul! = ) Hi Paul, : : The questions: : How did you start? Intentionally? Spontaneously? Spontaneously in my teens, although I didn't know what it was then, I still am not sure. : : What types of things do you typically do while out of body? When I have an out of body feeling experience, I tend to fly or float around. I spoke to some kids once. I haven't really done much of great interest. : : Have you noticed if certain times of the day work better for you? (my : fiancee typically does it around 2 in the afternoon) I have had t sponataneous both in the day and night but mostly night. : : Is it possible to have an OOBE while physically aware? (I had a : really, REALLY odd experience -- involving conscious manipulation of : physical reality, psychic cleansing, psychic communication (with a : number of witnesses) -- that I'm still trying to find an explanation : for. It's a long story and I don't think it's related to OOBEs so I'm : not including it here.) sounds interesting.. what happened? : : Sorry if this is too long or not enough on topic. Just let me know to : guide my future posts. : Paul : : PS: Books I've enjoyed most: : The Holographic Universe -- Michael Talbot : The Einstein Factor -- Win Wenger, PhD : Currently reading: A Brief History of Everything -- Ken Wilber Thanks, Lorene ###### From: "Mr Paul" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: Subject: Re: How did you get started into OOBEs? Intentionally? Spontaneously? (newbie) Lines: 231 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 03:21:03 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.26.92.180 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 950952222 204.26.92.180 (Sat, 19 Feb 2000 03:23:42 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 03:23:42 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:33834 Hi all, I appreciate your responses, and I'm sorry I didn't get back sooner to thanking and responding. Loads of crap happening. Anyway, I originally posted what follows in the alt.paranormal group and NO ONE responded. Hopefully it sparks more interest here. I'm not selling myself very well, but just keep your mind REALLY open and don't judge me because of some bad decisions I'm about to relay. > : Is it possible to have an OOBE while physically aware? (I had a > : really, REALLY odd experience -- involving conscious manipulation of > : physical reality, psychic cleansing, psychic communication (with a > : number of witnesses) -- that I'm still trying to find an explanation > : for. It's a long story and I don't think it's related to OOBEs so I'm > : not including it here.) > > sounds interesting.. what happened? Hi all, I'm Paul. = ) I'm 22 years old. March marks the one year anniversary of the strangest event in my life that no has yet been able to explain -- including myself. You're going to have to keep a very open mind if you decide to continue reading. Don't ask me how it makes sense or how it works, that's what I'm asking this group. I was at a Phish concert and my friends gave me some psychedelic mushrooms. I do not endorse the use of these items. I had entered the concert with specific goals I wanted to accomplish while on the mushrooms... solving my memory problem, understanding time and the possibility of time travel, and a few other things. After the band took a break, I was sitting down with my minitape recorder I brought. This guy comes over to me and we start talking, I start talking with him about quantum physics and the deeper implications that consciousness is the foundation of all matter as (at least) one of the leading quantum physicists (Bohm) stated. Through my discussion with him, I got my mind into the state of complete relaxation and a full acceptance of mind controlling the physical realm. That all of our minds are connected in a wonderous web of consciousness that is only held back in what it can do by doubt. That we are held back by the limits we place on ourselves, from basic "I can't do math" to the limits of location "I am Paul, in Kansas City at a Phish show and it is some specific date." This is limiting data, helpful to remember who and where you are, but as I saw it, limiting to who I could be were I to remove all of my restrictions. So I made a very conscious effort to rid myself of all doubt and all limits I'd placed on myself... And it worked amazingly well. Due to my altered state of consciousness, I took the idea farther than I would EVER have let myself go when fully sober. I began to see all of the concert-goers as symbolic representations of parts of myself. I don't say that to mean they lost their individuality, but that I gained a sense of consciousness on the collective level. I would go over to people and talk to them about their problems and they'd open up to me. Then I'd actually start predicting their problem, I asked one girl "What do you do if your father's a drunk and your boyfriend beats you?" She looked at me, stunned and said in desperation, "I don't know..." I responded, "It doesn't matter what you do, you have to get yourself out of that situation. She hugged me and cried. The guy who kinda got me started on it all, Kip, was bringing people over to me for me to talk with. Several people around me kept asking, "Who are you? Where are you from?" to which I answered, "I'm Pau... no, I'm not going to limit myself. I'm a little bit of everyone, just as you are all a little bit of everyone else." as for the 'where i'm from' question, I said, "I'm from Oma-, no, i'm from everywhere." and so on. I felt as though time had stopped or slowed down, I entered what I called, "The Eternal Moment of Now." There was a guy standing behind my seat who was pretty darn depressed/angry looking. Not at me, but the world. I looked at him and said, "What's your problem?" Not in a confrontational sort of way, but a "what's troubling you" way. He looked at me, a little put off, you can imagine, and I felt like I saw into his soul. I said, "I understand." I put my hand on his heart and focused as much energy as I could into him, I asked, "Can you feel that?" He looked down at my hand and said, "Yeah, what is that?" Now, looking back, had he not asked what it was, then he'd only be answering that yes he felt my hand. I responded, "It's Love, brother!" He then put his hand on my heart as I stood there and focused all of my energy into him. There was a girl in front of me who, for whatever reason, seemed like she needed help. I (and this is the only semi-invasive move I made) touched her heart and saw quick flashes of some very painful experiences (that I assume are connected to her life). I sat there and tried to take on as much of her pain as I could, so that I could release it for her. I cried under the weight of her problems, but they were also tears of joy because I knew that I was helping her. I felt a snap and knew it was done. She turned around and stared at me, confused, but not angry or disturbed. Now, all of these so far have required faith in psychic transfer and may have many other possible explanations. But, during the concert it had been raining. I sat down next to Kip and commented, "Why are your jeans wet?" He responded, "Cause it rained, dude." "I'm not wet, why am I not wet?" I was genuinely confused because I wasn't wet at all. All of my clothes were bone dry, Kip even tested for himself. He looked at me and laughed, shaking his head in amazement, "I don't know, dude. I really don't know." I smiled and said, "Just because it rained doesn't mean you have to be wet." I put my hand on his wet pant leg and focused "dry" energy. I didn't really know what else to focus. I closed my eyes and focused this energy but the more I tried, the more wet my hand felt. I thought I had failed but came to the conclusion that in order for there to be balance, if I give "dry" energy, I must take "wet" energy. I opened my eyes, removed my hand and there was a large dry spot where my hand was and about 3 inches out on all sides from where it was. Kip just stared at his pant leg and I just laughed. I had amazed myself. This could be explained that my energy was through the roof and my heat dried my clothes and his pant leg. Whether they were dry or not is the issue, I know they were. the question is: How were they dried? As we were leaving I told Kip that I'd be seeing him, he responded, "I'm SURE I'll be seeing more of you." which has different interpretations, but I took to mean 'i'm going to hear about you someday.' but, i don't have any of these abilities anymore. my doubts (conscious and unconscious) returned and may have even increased. I've gone over the events again and again trying to make sense. some people say, "Well it's just the drugs." But if that were the case, then only I would be hallucinating that I dried myself or Kip, only I would think the guy behind me felt my energy. But they did. Either by actions or by comments, I know they recognized SOMETHING. exactly what I don't know. I really wish I had a way to contact some of these people. I've done several meditations to try and get Kip's full name so I could do a 411 and call him. I don't have enough clarity to my meditations to try and read the name though. And even then, he was in a frat and I doubt his phone # would be under his name. Some people will not have an explanation and pass off the entire thing as either a lie or something else. That's fine for those people. But I was there, I witnessed it. I have friends who were with me through some of it who can account for some things, but they were actually worried about me because I was going around talking to everyone that they held meetings to figure out what to do about me and missed most of what happened. I want explanations. I've always been very into psychology and know my mind pretty deeply so I was able to peal back all my underlying doubts and assumptions at the show, I've read many books on different theories of reality (particularly interested in the holographic principles of the universe -- complex wave form interference: constructive/destructive interference, etc), and I've always been fascinated by the unknown. But, I simply don't know how to resolve what happened without making rash claims, and I've had almost a year to try and figure it out and nothing new has come to me. I've gone through stages where I am able to accept it that it happened, but can't fully explain how or why. Other stages where I try and figure out any other possible way to interpret the events I'm sure of (ex: I'm sure I dried his pant leg, but maybe it was due to another reason; a friend told me that Tibetan monks can dry wet towels placed on their shoulders by meditating and increasing their body temperature -- so it may just be as simple as temperature change... but still, his pant leg was really soaked. I'm not sure I helped the girl in front of me because she never said anything, I'm only basing my interpretation off what I felt and her look, which I may not be remembering correctly -- so that one is pretty quickly thrown out of the "proof" pile when I'm weighing things.) Another thing that may have contributed was the fact that I felt as though I had physically left the concert. I was no longer at the concert, I was no longer me. I felt completely removed from my life, I wondered, "did Paul die? How did my family react, etc." but realized that whatever has happened, the old timeline would be fine, and if i died to them, then they would deal and things would work out. i actually thought i had entered a completely separate reality in which the things i did were ok to be done -- which is exactly how you have to think about it to be able to do it. I had decided I wanted to stay in that frame of mind but Kip told me different. You're on a trip, like you go to NY and come home. You need to come back. I sat for a few minutes and pondered that question. I started feeling myself re-enter my life which was one of the more interesting sensations -- that I felt that I could change what reality I came back to but I figured my life was what need to happen and what was the best plan in God's eyes and I wouldn't doubt that. So, part of me REALLY thanks Kip for talking me back to reality, but part wonder what if... As we were leaving the concert, I said to one of my friends, "Yeah, I was talking to this guy Kip..." "The guy standing next to you during the show?" Now remember, I thought I had left the grounds when I asked, "You could SEE HIM??" "Uh, yeah Paul." I know I entered a COMPLETELY different state of consciousness during the show. It felt like a semi-lucid dream, where I could manipulate certain things (the dry pant leg, helping people by feeling their pain for them). I actually took some credit for the rain... it was in the air, but I asked Kip, "did you want me to make it rain." He answered, "Sure, dude. Make it rain." 5 minutes later -- after some intense focused meditation on rain, it was a down pour. That could simply have been a predictive part of me, too. Like the Egyptian pharohs who had astromers tell them when the eclipse would occur and then take credit for the occurance. So, that get's thrown out quickly also as far as "hard evidence" is concerned. Much does, but there are still those unexplained things that I KNOW happened. I'm not crazy. I'm do contract computer programming work from Omaha NE for a company in California (programming takes a great deal of logic ability). I have read a lot of layman's books on the implications of quantum physics and have a deep interest in the mind (I belong to the Quantum-Mind mailing list based out of Arizon U, very intriguing work. archives at http://listserv.arizona.edu/lsv/www/quantum-mind.html). I'm also quite religious and am currently reading Wilber's book "A Brief History of Everything" and enjoying his miraculous way of melding the spiritual with the scientific. I highly recommend it. I'm not a schizo and don't have bipolar disorder. For those who may think I'm stupid, I graduated in the top 10% of my class of 400. The point of me saying all this (this paragraph) is that this is not a joke. This experience happened. I think of it at least several times a week and it remains in my "To File" stack of memories cause I simply don't know what to do with it. People tell me to just forget about it and move on. But let's put it this way, You go exploring in a cave and find a huge treasure chest. The following day you tell people about it and they think you are crazy, yet you know you saw the chest. Do you allow their inability to think about "what's possible in this world" to limit your view? Do you go back, I'm not completely sure I'd be able to get back because I'd have too much riding on figuring it out, I think, that it would destroy the whole ride. I also don't want to use drugs so that people can't instantly write off my experience because of my method of induction... and simply because it's better that way for your own psyche to not feel as though it needs an external way to do something it is capable of doing without drugs. Any insight at all would help. Ask questions, email me personally if you like. Paul ###### From: "Lorz" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: Subject: Re: How did you get started into OOBEs? Intentionally? Spontaneously? (newbie) Lines: 24 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:29:08 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.78.240.43 X-Trace: news2.mia 950985140 216.78.240.43 (Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:32:20 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 13:32:20 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.atl!news2.mia.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:33764 Hi Mr Paul, Mr Paul wrote in message news:yitr4.1586$u67.85085@news.uswest.net... : Hi all, I appreciate your responses, and I'm sorry I didn't get back sooner : to thanking and responding. Loads of crap happening. Anyway, I originally : posted what follows in the alt.paranormal group and NO ONE responded. : Hopefully it sparks more interest here. I'm not selling myself very well, : but just keep your mind REALLY open and don't judge me because of some bad : decisions I'm about to relay. : : I saw Phish At the Jazz & Heritage Fest in New Orleans a few years back. Were YOU there? haha I am curious to hear what happened in all your friends point of views? You said they held meetings because they were worried about you at the time so they missed most of what happened? What do they say happened? What had them so worried? Lorene ###### From: "Mr Paul" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: Subject: Re: How did you get started into OOBEs? Intentionally? Spontaneously? (newbie) Lines: 34 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 14:56:52 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.26.93.138 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 950993972 204.26.93.138 (Sat, 19 Feb 2000 14:59:32 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Feb 2000 14:59:32 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:33818 > : I saw Phish At the Jazz & Heritage Fest in New Orleans a few years back. > Were YOU there? haha > I am curious to hear what happened in all your friends point of views? > You said they held meetings because they were worried about you at the time > so they missed most of what happened? What do they say happened? What had > them so worried? They were worried because I was going around talking to everyone rather than watching the show. they were trying to figure out if they should restrict me from moving. they never followed me where i went, and most of what happened was away from my seating location. They talked with Kip, briefly. He asked if i was with them, if Kristing (the girl i was with) was my gf or not. Just some casual talk. They saw me sit for 5 minutes with my hand on the guy behind me's heart (and his hand on mine) doing my energy transfer. They don't see it as such. They only knew that we sat there, they didn't feel anything. But they do corroberate that I (physically) touched and talked with people. So, they really didn't witness anything up close, and that makes their testimony semi-worthless. but they at least provide memory validation for myself that the physical event happened, so then it comes to whether i trust my memory for the up-close part of the events. The only true witnesses who'd have something to say were people I didn't know. my friends were worried, because they thought I said something about being Christ... which I wouldn't do and the only thing I can think of as to why they'd say that is because I said i felt that i was tapping into "Christ Energy" meaning a powerful, unconditional Love for everyone around me. Not that I was Christ, or becoming Christ, but that I had a Christ-like love for people. so my friends only got spotty information. I need to find Kip. Is Kip short for anything? Oh, and I wasn't at the New Orleans show. = ) Paul