From: "B.D. Yager" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Janice - I'll Show You Mine! Lines: 106 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:55:59 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.31.188.67 X-Complaints-To: abuse@alpha.net X-Trace: homer.alpha.net 952743975 206.31.188.67 (Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:06:15 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 21:06:15 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!homer.alpha.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:35466 Hello group.... hello Janice! This post is of course for everyone,... but Janice seems to be the LD expert in here,... and I seem to recall that she equates LD's and OOBE's as pretty much the same things? Well, I had an LD this past week which I'd like to relate here, for comparison's sake.... A quick note:... LD's are not my "specialty", and I don't have many. But in the past, when I have had them, I simply went along with the dream, as-is. Actually, never gave much thought to "playing with my dream environment" in them. Then along came Janice, saying... this is neat, that is cool, and this can be alot of fun! Thanks, for the tips! Perhaps I'll begin actually trying to have these "on purpose"! And so:.... My dreams often tend to blend, one to the next... and as such they can become rather complex! At one point during this particular dream this week, I became aware, or lucid. I am seldom by myself during a dream, I always have company... well, almost always. My "partner" in this dream was a very short-haired female of slight and wiry build. Dark haired, and very interesting to be around. I liked her, quite a bit. She reminded me a little of Tinkerbell when Julia Roberts played her in Hook. Definately tom-boyish. Well, no matter. We were trying to escape some people who were after us.... seems we were trespassing where we shouldn't have been! We were on the snow-covered roof of a barn of sorts, and my "partner" grabbed a short wooden ladder which was laying there, and attempted to prop it up and get down. Well, it was a rotten wooden ladder, and it promptly broke into several pieces! The "bad guys" were quickly coming up the other side of the barn. It was at this point that I realized that this was just a dream... And I remembered Janice saying that I could change anything I wanted....do anything I wanted! So I thought, why not give it a try? I thought, what my friend and I need.... is a nifty aluminum extension ladder in place of this broken wooden one! (I don't know why.... but I didn't think it would work, if I was looking at the ladder when I changed it!)???? So, I turned around and thought....when I look at it again it will be that aluminum extension ladder.... and it was! I was ecstatic! It works! My partner was quite curious about where I might have gotten that ladder (she wasn't looking when I did it) but I told her I'd show her later.... it was now time to use it and escape! She propped up the ladder, and did just that! However, the ladder then un-extended after she had used it... and fell to the ground! Bad guys were getting closer... I could hear them! I suppose because I was new at this.... or perhaps because my lucidity wasn't 100%.... it never occurred to me to simply "make" another one.... or even, to get "rid" of the foes! I simply looked around for another means of escape. And just my luck.... there was a bunch of ratty old rags tied together like rotten bedsheets, hanging from the edge of the gutter! (Figures, don't it?) I grabbed a hold.... and swung down off the edge of the barn, just hoping they'd hold! Guess what. You got it.... they didn't! Snap! And so I fell about 30 feet or so, and hit the ground with a smack! Nope...didn't wake up, neither. I just thought, hmmm... guess I can't REALLY get hurt, 'cause I'm just dreaming! Hahahahaha! Well, our pursuers were now a thing of the past... and never showed up in the dream again.... So, we were down on the ground in a very large yard full of all sorts of junk. You know,... old chairs, bicycles, car parts, wagons, pots, pans,....general goodies! A dump searcher's dream! Anyway, we sat down at a rickety old picnic table, and she asked me again about the ladder, which lay there before us on the ground. I stated that since this was only a dream... I had "powers" over everything in it! She didn't believe me. And, she didn't believe that this was a dream, either! (Is this normal?) So I said, "I'll show you.... watch the ladder"! I stretched my arms out, magic-fashioned, and wiggled my fingers towards the ladder, thinking "levitate".... and simultaneously thinking "this better work, or I'll look awfully foolish"! Well..... worked like a charm! The ladder raised itself and hovered about 4 feet off the ground.... and I once again mentally thanked Janice for the info! My "partner" was in absolute awe! (Another side-note..... why do you think nobody ever has a "name" in my dreams? I have my theory...but would like others'.) She insisted that this wasn't a dream, and tried to prove this to me by banging on the "solid" objects around us....the table, an old watering tank, etc. I pounded on the tank, too....yes, it was solid! But nonetheless, said I,... I have these powers! Hahahahaha! "So how do you DO that!", she said, looking at the still hovering aluminum ladder. "Just watch this!", said I.... and I promptly set the ladder in motion, well launched would be a better word! It accelerated rapidly and flew horizontally, quite out of sight! The dream continued after that, with exploring the junk-yard, talking, and just having a good old romping adventure! However, my lucidity ebbed... and no more "parlor tricks" were performed by me. Upon reflection of the LD in the morning.... I realized that although I was lucid, and could alter my dream environment, I also still knew it was a "dream". I was sleeping, and knew it. It looked like a dream, and I experienced it as a dream, even though I was lucid. Fun, sure.... but a dream. This was absolutely nothing like the perception I've had while OOB! Night and day....you might say! During my major OOBE, or Astral Traveling, whatever you want to call it...I was 100% wide awake! Consciousness was exactly as it is right now! (Well, almost...there were very slight differences in thought patterns.) However, during this LD... I never felt "wide eyed-awake",... it looked and acted just like all my dreams, with the exception of my awareness of dreaming and my ability to alter it. So, I wonder how this compares to your perception during the LD's? Do they have the same "flavor" as a dream? Or, is this something I simply need to work on? Perhaps there are varying levels of LD's also,...with higher states of consciousness in them being non-distinguishable from wide-awake states? Hmmmm???? B.D. Yager ###### Message-ID: <38C9C26F.298A@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Janice - I'll Show You Mine! References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 145 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 952746545 207.103.34.8 (Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:49:05 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:49:05 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 03:49:06 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:35440 B.D. Yager wrote: > > Hello group.... hello Janice! This post is of course for everyone,... but > Janice seems to be the LD expert in here,... and I seem to recall that she > equates LD's and OOBE's as pretty much the same things? My own are. I can't speak for everybody's (although if mine are then at least some other people's may be as well). > Well, I had an LD > this past week which I'd like to relate here, for comparison's sake.... > > A quick note:... LD's are not my "specialty", and I don't have many. But > in the past, when I have had them, I simply went along with the dream, > as-is. Actually, never gave much thought to "playing with my dream > environment" in them. Then along came Janice, saying... this is neat, that > is cool, and this can be alot of fun! Thanks, for the tips! Perhaps I'll > begin actually trying to have these "on purpose"! Sure! Have a blast. > And so:.... > > My dreams often tend to blend, one to the next... and as such they can > become rather complex! At one point during this particular dream this week, > I became aware, or lucid. I am seldom by myself during a dream, I always > have company... well, almost always. My "partner" in this dream was a very > short-haired female of slight and wiry build. Dark haired, and very > interesting to be around. I liked her, quite a bit. She reminded me a > little of Tinkerbell when Julia Roberts played her in Hook. Definately > tom-boyish. Well, no matter. > > We were trying to escape some people who were after us.... seems we were > trespassing where we shouldn't have been! We were on the snow-covered roof > of a barn of sorts, and my "partner" grabbed a short wooden ladder which was > laying there, and attempted to prop it up and get down. Well, it was a > rotten wooden ladder, and it promptly broke into several pieces! The "bad > guys" were quickly coming up the other side of the barn. It was at this > point that I realized that this was just a dream... > > And I remembered Janice saying that I could change anything I wanted....do > anything I wanted! So I thought, why not give it a try? I thought, what my > friend and I need.... is a nifty aluminum extension ladder in place of this > broken wooden one! (I don't know why.... but I didn't think it would work, > if I was looking at the ladder when I changed it!)???? So, I turned around > and thought....when I look at it again it will be that aluminum extension > ladder.... and it was! I was ecstatic! It works! You got it - it's best to look away or close your eyes when you're willing something to change in a lucid dream. That way the current image doesn't conflict in your mind with the image you want to change it to. > My partner was quite > curious about where I might have gotten that ladder (she wasn't looking when > I did it) but I told her I'd show her later.... it was now time to use it > and escape! > > She propped up the ladder, and did just that! However, the ladder then > un-extended after she had used it... and fell to the ground! Bad guys were > getting closer... I could hear them! I suppose because I was new at > this.... or perhaps because my lucidity wasn't 100%.... it never occurred to > me to simply "make" another one.... or even, to get "rid" of the foes! I > simply looked around for another means of escape. And just my luck.... > there was a bunch of ratty old rags tied together like rotten bedsheets, > hanging from the edge of the gutter! (Figures, don't it?) Yep. What you expect or look for in a lucid dream you usually find. > I grabbed a > hold.... and swung down off the edge of the barn, just hoping they'd hold! > Guess what. You got it.... they didn't! Snap! But you gotta be careful not to plant negative suggestions! :) > And so I fell about 30 feet or so, and hit the ground with a smack! > Nope...didn't wake up, neither. I just thought, hmmm... guess I can't > REALLY get hurt, 'cause I'm just dreaming! Hahahahaha! Well, our pursuers > were now a thing of the past... and never showed up in the dream again.... If you stop paying attention to them, you won't sustain them. Simple as that. > So, we were down on the ground in a very large yard full of all sorts of > junk. You know,... old chairs, bicycles, car parts, wagons, pots, > pans,....general goodies! A dump searcher's dream! Anyway, we sat down at > a rickety old picnic table, and she asked me again about the ladder, which > lay there before us on the ground. I stated that since this was only a > dream... I had "powers" over everything in it! She didn't believe me. And, > she didn't believe that this was a dream, either! (Is this normal?) Yes. > So I > said, "I'll show you.... watch the ladder"! I stretched my arms out, > magic-fashioned, and wiggled my fingers towards the ladder, thinking > "levitate".... and simultaneously thinking "this better work, or I'll look > awfully foolish"! > > Well..... worked like a charm! The ladder raised itself and hovered about 4 > feet off the ground.... and I once again mentally thanked Janice for the > info! My "partner" was in absolute awe! (Another side-note..... why do you > think nobody ever has a "name" in my dreams? I have my theory...but would > like others'.) Don't know. Try asking them for their names. > She insisted that this wasn't a dream, and tried to prove > this to me by banging on the "solid" objects around us....the table, an old > watering tank, etc. I pounded on the tank, too....yes, it was solid! But > nonetheless, said I,... I have these powers! Hahahahaha! "So how do you DO > that!", she said, looking at the still hovering aluminum ladder. "Just > watch this!", said I.... and I promptly set the ladder in motion, well > launched would be a better word! It accelerated rapidly and flew > horizontally, quite out of sight! > > The dream continued after that, with exploring the junk-yard, talking, and > just having a good old romping adventure! However, my lucidity ebbed... and > no more "parlor tricks" were performed by me. > > Upon reflection of the LD in the morning.... I realized that although I was > lucid, and could alter my dream environment, I also still knew it was a > "dream". I was sleeping, and knew it. It looked like a dream, and I > experienced it as a dream, even though I was lucid. Fun, sure.... but a > dream. This was absolutely nothing like the perception I've had while OOB! > Night and day....you might say! During my major OOBE, or Astral Traveling, > whatever you want to call it...I was 100% wide awake! Consciousness was > exactly as it is right now! (Well, almost...there were very slight > differences in thought patterns.) However, during this LD... I never felt > "wide eyed-awake",... it looked and acted just like all my dreams, with the > exception of my awareness of dreaming and my ability to alter it. So, I > wonder how this compares to your perception during the LD's? Do they have > the same "flavor" as a dream? Or, is this something I simply need to work > on? Perhaps there are varying levels of LD's also,...with higher states of > consciousness in them being non-distinguishable from wide-awake states? > Hmmmm???? This is a question for me? I'd say my awareness level is typically higher and more similar to waking consciousness in my OBE-like lucid dreams than in lucid dreams in which I realize I am dreaming during the course of the dream. The latter are often more what I'd call semilucid - you're only aware of certain implications of the fact that you are dreaming, and although you may be controlling things you are still pretty much caught up in the dream plot. But yes, definitely, there's a range of lucidity in so-called lucid dreams. ###### Reply-To: "Floating" From: "Floating" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38C9C26F.298A@not-here.net> Subject: Re: Janice - I'll Show You Mine! Lines: 24 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:06:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.126.151.31 X-Complaints-To: abuse@freeuk.net X-Trace: nnrp4.clara.net 952772765 212.126.151.31 (Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:06:05 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 11:06:05 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!skynet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!nnrp4.clara.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:35479 Hi Janice and B.D, Spot on Janice, I would have to agree with you there. I can not distinguish between my OBEs and my LDs. But my level of awareness seems to be higher when I have OBE like LDs, such as when I roll out of my physical body just after falling asleep. I to find more success changing or materialising an object when I look away, but I have recently been experimenting with changing objects in my immediate field of vision, with gradual success. Bruce, I to keep running into characters who stubbornly do not wish to believe I am dreaming, even after I demonstrate some unreal magical activity. So, I always put it down to these characters representing some sceptical side of my self. Floating merrily :-) ###### Message-ID: <38CA5C2E.24CE@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Janice - I'll Show You Mine! References: <38C9C26F.298A@not-here.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 30 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 952785903 207.103.34.8 (Sat, 11 Mar 2000 07:45:03 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 07:45:03 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 14:45:03 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:35443 Floating wrote: > > Hi Janice and B.D, > > Spot on Janice, I would have to agree with you there. I can not distinguish > between my OBEs and > my LDs. But my level of awareness seems to be higher when I have OBE like > LDs, such as when I roll out of my physical body just after falling asleep. It makes sense, really, that the sleep-onset LDs/OBEs would have a higher level of awareness, since you would be bringing a lot of your mental wherewithal with you into the dream state right from the beginning instead of having to kick-start your brain into supporting rational thought etc. in the middle of an irrational dream sequence. > I to find more success changing or materialising an object when I look away, > but I have recently been > experimenting with changing objects in my immediate field of vision, with > gradual success. Good! It is probably a limitation that can be overcome with effort, like so many of them in this area. > Bruce, I to keep running into characters who stubbornly do not wish to > believe I am dreaming, > even after I demonstrate some unreal magical activity. So, I always put it > down to these characters > representing some sceptical side of my self. They may represent your own lingering traces of nonlucidity. ###### From: email@inside.ok (SUNEYE) Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Janice - I'll Show You Mine! Organization: SICAP Message-ID: <38cc7766.11299549@news.earthlink.net> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 48 Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:49:45 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.113.6 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 952793385 168.191.113.6 (Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:49:45 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 08:49:45 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:35483 On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:55:59 -0600, "B.D. Yager" wrote: >Upon reflection of the LD in the morning.... I realized that although I was >lucid, and could alter my dream environment, I also still knew it was a >"dream". I was sleeping, and knew it. It looked like a dream, and I >experienced it as a dream, even though I was lucid. Fun, sure.... but a >dream. This was absolutely nothing like the perception I've had while OOB! >Night and day....you might say! During my major OOBE, or Astral Traveling, >whatever you want to call it...I was 100% wide awake! Consciousness was >exactly as it is right now! (Well, almost...there were very slight >differences in thought patterns.) However, during this LD... I never felt >"wide eyed-awake",... it looked and acted just like all my dreams, with the >exception of my awareness of dreaming and my ability to alter it. So, I >wonder how this compares to your perception during the LD's? Do they have >the same "flavor" as a dream? Or, is this something I simply need to work >on? Perhaps there are varying levels of LD's also,...with higher states of >consciousness in them being non-distinguishable from wide-awake states? >Hmmmm???? > >B.D. Yager Hello B.D., I understand how you feel. It is really hard to explain to people that OBEs and LDs are completely different. I understand because I was also confused in the beginning. The reason for this is because my first experiences was having lucid dreams of out-of-body travelling. I remember one day, I wanted to have my first OBE really bad. I went to sleep and remembered giving myself suggestions that I was going to OBE. Suddenly, I remembered rolling out of my body. Everything was crystal clear, but the room seemed to be a little different. I saw a door that was not suppose to be there. I decided to fly out of my room into the street. I was so surprised at how real everything seemed. It was not until years later, when I finally had my first OBE that I knew that all of my previous experiences were only dreams. I might have been lucid, but there were still only dreams. Until we are able to show, not tell, the differences, these kind of disagreements will continue to take place. Joe Russa (SUNEYE) 'Home of The SUNEYE Methods' suneye(spam)@scientist.com http://fly.to/suneye 'Take the (spam) off of the address to email' ###### Reply-To: "Floating" From: "Floating" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body References: <38cc7766.11299549@news.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Janice - I'll Show You Mine! Lines: 70 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:37:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.126.154.126 X-Complaints-To: abuse@freeuk.net X-Trace: nnrp3.clara.net 952807046 212.126.154.126 (Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:37:26 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 20:37:26 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!nnrp3.clara.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:35545 Hi Suneye, Just out of curiosity, can you tell me what your first OBE was like, and how different it was to your previous LDs. As sometimes, very rarely, I do have OBE/LDs where everything seems to be in shades of black and white and no one seems able to see me. Cheers, Floating. SUNEYE wrote in message news:38cc7766.11299549@news.earthlink.net... > On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:55:59 -0600, "B.D. Yager" > wrote: > > >Upon reflection of the LD in the morning.... I realized that although I was > >lucid, and could alter my dream environment, I also still knew it was a > >"dream". I was sleeping, and knew it. It looked like a dream, and I > >experienced it as a dream, even though I was lucid. Fun, sure.... but a > >dream. This was absolutely nothing like the perception I've had while OOB! > >Night and day....you might say! During my major OOBE, or Astral Traveling, > >whatever you want to call it...I was 100% wide awake! Consciousness was > >exactly as it is right now! (Well, almost...there were very slight > >differences in thought patterns.) However, during this LD... I never felt > >"wide eyed-awake",... it looked and acted just like all my dreams, with the > >exception of my awareness of dreaming and my ability to alter it. So, I > >wonder how this compares to your perception during the LD's? Do they have > >the same "flavor" as a dream? Or, is this something I simply need to work > >on? Perhaps there are varying levels of LD's also,...with higher states of > >consciousness in them being non-distinguishable from wide-awake states? > >Hmmmm???? > > > >B.D. Yager > > Hello B.D., > > I understand how you feel. It is really hard to explain to people that > OBEs and LDs are completely different. I understand because I was > also confused in the beginning. The reason for this is because my > first experiences was having lucid dreams of out-of-body travelling. > > I remember one day, I wanted to have my first OBE really bad. I went > to sleep and remembered giving myself suggestions that I was going to > OBE. Suddenly, I remembered rolling out of my body. Everything was > crystal clear, but the room seemed to be a little different. I saw a > door that was not suppose to be there. I decided to fly out of my room > into the street. I was so surprised at how real everything seemed. > > It was not until years later, when I finally had my first OBE that I > knew that all of my previous experiences were only dreams. I might > have been lucid, but there were still only dreams. Until we are able > to show, not tell, the differences, these kind of disagreements will > continue to take place. > > > Joe Russa (SUNEYE) > 'Home of The SUNEYE Methods' > suneye(spam)@scientist.com > http://fly.to/suneye > 'Take the (spam) off of the address to email' ###### Message-ID: <38CAD1B6.75BC@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Janice - I'll Show You Mine! References: <38cc7766.11299549@news.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 50 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 952815991 207.103.34.8 (Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:06:31 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 16:06:31 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Sat, 11 Mar 2000 23:06:31 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:35518 SUNEYE wrote: > > On Fri, 10 Mar 2000 20:55:59 -0600, "B.D. Yager" > wrote: > > >Upon reflection of the LD in the morning.... I realized that although I was > >lucid, and could alter my dream environment, I also still knew it was a > >"dream". I was sleeping, and knew it. It looked like a dream, and I > >experienced it as a dream, even though I was lucid. Fun, sure.... but a > >dream. This was absolutely nothing like the perception I've had while OOB! > >Night and day....you might say! During my major OOBE, or Astral Traveling, > >whatever you want to call it...I was 100% wide awake! Consciousness was > >exactly as it is right now! (Well, almost...there were very slight > >differences in thought patterns.) However, during this LD... I never felt > >"wide eyed-awake",... it looked and acted just like all my dreams, with the > >exception of my awareness of dreaming and my ability to alter it. So, I > >wonder how this compares to your perception during the LD's? Do they have > >the same "flavor" as a dream? Or, is this something I simply need to work > >on? Perhaps there are varying levels of LD's also,...with higher states of > >consciousness in them being non-distinguishable from wide-awake states? > >Hmmmm???? > > > >B.D. Yager > > Hello B.D., > > I understand how you feel. It is really hard to explain to people that > OBEs and LDs are completely different. I understand because I was > also confused in the beginning. The reason for this is because my > first experiences was having lucid dreams of out-of-body travelling. > > I remember one day, I wanted to have my first OBE really bad. I went > to sleep and remembered giving myself suggestions that I was going to > OBE. Suddenly, I remembered rolling out of my body. Everything was > crystal clear, but the room seemed to be a little different. I saw a > door that was not suppose to be there. I decided to fly out of my room > into the street. I was so surprised at how real everything seemed. > > It was not until years later, when I finally had my first OBE that I > knew that all of my previous experiences were only dreams. I might > have been lucid, but there were still only dreams. Until we are able > to show, not tell, the differences, these kind of disagreements will > continue to take place. Yes, that's what I get - OBE-like lucid dreams where you find yourself in a realistic alternate version of your home and neighborhood. But how do you personally distinguish a dream environment like that from an astral environment? Does the astral environment match the real world exactly?