From: "Mark Baron" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Post and replys (was Re: Forget the skeptics, need advice) Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 10:23:14 -0600 Organization: Mayo Foundation Lines: 21 Message-ID: <87eudh$usc$1@tribune.mayo.edu> References: <6181-38931946-27@storefull-281.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <38932709.35DC@not-here.net> <38977F2F.7DB5@not-here.net> <8A4600B0655F268F.FBC538EF7503D29F.BCB339B125FCB43A@lp.airnews.net> <389894A6.14E8@not-here.net> <3FAF6EE850EB1A25.1EF956586A5D5D83.6B46449AF3B1CDB4@lp.airnews.net> <389A96FD.4949@not-here.net> <389A9ACC.53AA@not-here.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: baron.mayo.edu X-Trace: tribune.mayo.edu 949681393 31628 129.176.218.141 (4 Feb 2000 16:23:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@mayo.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Feb 2000 16:23:13 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!mayonews.mayo.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:32388 Janice wrote in message news:389A9ACC.53AA@not-here.net... > Janice wrote: > > > > I don't know how it happened, but I would never have known this post > > existed if I hadn't just seen Mark's reply. It was almost lost in the > > other reality where posts go when we decree, "Mark as Read," even though > > I sure didn't notice it before. It's long and complex enough that I'm > > going to have to print it out and think about it for awhile. > > Dang news server did it again - sent this post out so it shows up on > other servers while never showing up on the original one. I know it's proper netiquette to trim up a post. But with so many people having problems with not seeing original posts maybe we should break that here. From now should we quote original text even if we have a short reply? -Mark ###### Message-ID: <389B253E.7CED@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Post and replys (was Re: Forget the skeptics, need advice) References: <6181-38931946-27@storefull-281.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <38932709.35DC@not-here.net> <38977F2F.7DB5@not-here.net> <8A4600B0655F268F.FBC538EF7503D29F.BCB339B125FCB43A@lp.airnews.net> <389894A6.14E8@not-here.net> <3FAF6EE850EB1A25.1EF956586A5D5D83.6B46449AF3B1CDB4@lp.airnews.net> <389A96FD.4949@not-here.net> <389A9ACC.53AA@not-here.net> <87eudh$usc$1@tribune.mayo.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 949691674 207.103.34.8 (Fri, 04 Feb 2000 12:14:34 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 12:14:34 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 19:14:34 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!cyclone-east.rr.com!news.rr.com!news-east.rr.com!portc05.blue.aol.com!gw12.bcandid.com.MISMATCH!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:32255 Mark Baron wrote: > > Janice wrote in message > news:389A9ACC.53AA@not-here.net... > > Janice wrote: > > > > > > I don't know how it happened, but I would never have known this post > > > existed if I hadn't just seen Mark's reply. It was almost lost in the > > > other reality where posts go when we decree, "Mark as Read," even though > > > I sure didn't notice it before. It's long and complex enough that I'm > > > going to have to print it out and think about it for awhile. > > > > Dang news server did it again - sent this post out so it shows up on > > other servers while never showing up on the original one. > > I know it's proper netiquette to trim up a post. But with so many people > having problems with not seeing original posts maybe we should break that > here. From now should we quote original text even if we have a short reply? OK with me. And be sure to save any long, complex posts you write in case you have to post them twice. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Post and replys (was Re: Forget the skeptics, need advice) Date: 06 Feb 2000 21:10:10 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 59 Message-ID: <6upuuagkil.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <6181-38931946-27@storefull-281.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <38932709.35DC@not-here.net> <38977F2F.7DB5@not-here.net> <8A4600B0655F268F.FBC538EF7503D29F.BCB339B125FCB43A@lp.airnews.net> <389894A6.14E8@not-here.net> <3FAF6EE850EB1A25.1EF956586A5D5D83.6B46449AF3B1CDB4@lp.airnews.net> <389A96FD.4949@not-here.net> <389A9ACC.53AA@not-here.net> <87eudh$usc$1@tribune.mayo.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 949867810 799 10.0.3.2 (6 Feb 2000 20:10:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Feb 2000 20:10:10 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:32704 "Mark Baron" writes: > Janice wrote in message > > > > > Dang news server did it again - sent this post out so it shows up on > > other servers while never showing up on the original one. Perhaps because your news reader regards it as "written here, so it has already been seen"? > I know it's proper netiquette to trim up a post. But with so many people > having problems with not seeing original posts maybe we should break that > here. From now should we quote original text even if we have a short reply? No! Too large (or even complete) quoting just makes a big nuissance to all the _many_ people who do have functioning servers. For one it destroys the advantages in showing the writers line of thoughts that only come from leaving in just the part you are replying to and arranging your answers after them (you do do this?). Second it increases stuff that the readers have to scroll through, as such reducing the amount of posts one can read in a given amount of time for Usenetting. Alternatively it drives more people to quote after their own additions to avoid this. Thus they break the flow of thoughts in an particular (sub-)thread. Once again slowing reading (scroll down, "oh that is what it is adding to", and scroll back up). Third it increases message size and so drives news server operators (who have limited disk space) to delete messages after yet smaller time, producing more "it has already gone here" posts. Fourth it drives up download costs for those who live in countries with pay-per-minute telephone lines (nearly everywhere outside the U.S.). -> The proper answer to too many missed messages is to get a news server that works. That may require changing provider. And BTW: I also do not get some posts (I estimate about 1-3%). That is normal. Usenet simply is non-deterministic in its behaviour. If you want 100% reliability, you will have to use a mailing list. Yes it is annoying to miss a post. But there are others that will read it and answer it, and one does get all the other posts. So long it stays below 3% loss it is OK (so sayeth the creators of the net, and then they went forth and created it in their image). -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Unix Wizzard and Guru, Hacker, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, Mystic Computer: toy that speeds work, so you have more time to play with it ###### From: "Mark Baron" Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Post and replys (was Re: Forget the skeptics, need advice) Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 15:03:16 -0600 Organization: Mayo Foundation Lines: 15 Message-ID: <87knfr$ht8$1@tribune.mayo.edu> References: <6181-38931946-27@storefull-281.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <38932709.35DC@not-here.net> <38977F2F.7DB5@not-here.net> <8A4600B0655F268F.FBC538EF7503D29F.BCB339B125FCB43A@lp.airnews.net> <389894A6.14E8@not-here.net> <3FAF6EE850EB1A25.1EF956586A5D5D83.6B46449AF3B1CDB4@lp.airnews.net> <389A96FD.4949@not-here.net> <389A9ACC.53AA@not-here.net> <87eudh$usc$1@tribune.mayo.edu> <6upuuagkil.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: rmtaccess76.mayo.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: tribune.mayo.edu 949870907 18344 172.22.175.86 (6 Feb 2000 21:01:47 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@mayo.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Feb 2000 21:01:47 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!hardy.tc.umn.edu!mayonews.mayo.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:32870 ---------- In article <6upuuagkil.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin wrote: > No! > > Too large (or even complete) quoting just makes a big nuissance to all > the _many_ people who do have functioning servers. You're right. Bad idea. I just read a post from someone who was having modem problems. He'd lock up and have to download most of the subjects and articles again and again. -Mark ###### Message-ID: <389E057D.EFE@not-here.net> From: Janice X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Post and replys (was Re: Forget the skeptics, need advice) References: <6181-38931946-27@storefull-281.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <38932709.35DC@not-here.net> <38977F2F.7DB5@not-here.net> <8A4600B0655F268F.FBC538EF7503D29F.BCB339B125FCB43A@lp.airnews.net> <389894A6.14E8@not-here.net> <3FAF6EE850EB1A25.1EF956586A5D5D83.6B46449AF3B1CDB4@lp.airnews.net> <389A96FD.4949@not-here.net> <389A9ACC.53AA@not-here.net> <87eudh$usc$1@tribune.mayo.edu> <6upuuagkil.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.103.34.8 X-Trace: tw11.nn.bcandid.com 949880153 207.103.34.8 (Sun, 06 Feb 2000 16:35:53 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 16:35:53 MST Organization: bCandid - Powering the world's discussions - http://bCandid.com Date: Sun, 06 Feb 2000 23:35:57 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!howland.erols.net!europa.netcrusader.net!206.132.58.120!gw22.nn.bcandid.com!hub12.nn.bcandid.com!tw11.nn.bcandid.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:32721 Neil Franklin wrote: > > > Janice wrote in message > > > > > > > Dang news server did it again - sent this post out so it shows up on > > > other servers while never showing up on the original one. > > Perhaps because your news reader regards it as "written here, so it > has already been seen"? It has only happened with a select few posts, though - perhaps 3 or 4 times. All the others show up here. It seems to be happening with particularly long posts. > > I know it's proper netiquette to trim up a post. But with so many people > > having problems with not seeing original posts maybe we should break that > > here. From now should we quote original text even if we have a short reply? > > No! OK, OK! You're right. I have been leaving more quoted text than I normally would do, but have still been snipping some. I can snip more. :) ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Post and replys (was Re: Forget the skeptics, need advice) Date: 08 Feb 2000 22:23:53 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 24 Message-ID: <6uk8kf1j86.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <6181-38931946-27@storefull-281.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <38932709.35DC @not-here.net> <38977F2F.7DB5@not-here.net> <8A4600B0655F268F.FBC538EF7503D29F.BCB339B125FCB 43A@lp.airnews.net> <389894A6.14E8@not-here.net> <3FAF6EE850EB1A25.1EF956586A5D5 D83.6B46449AF3B1CDB4@lp.airnews.net> <389A96FD.4949@not-here.net> <389A9ACC.53AA @not-here.net> <87eudh$usc$1@tribune.mayo.edu> <6upuuagkil.fsf@chonsp.franklin.c h> <389E057D.EFE@not-here.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 950045033 848 10.0.3.2 (8 Feb 2000 21:23:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Feb 2000 21:23:53 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:33015 Janice writes: > Neil Franklin wrote: > > > > > Janice wrote in message > > > > > > > > > Dang news server did it again - sent this post out so it shows up on > > > > other servers while never showing up on the original one. > > > > Perhaps because your news reader regards it as "written here, so it > > has already been seen"? > > It has only happened with a select few posts, though - perhaps 3 or 4 > times. All the others show up here. It seems to be happening with > particularly long posts. Has your news reader (or your news server) possibly got an "don't download anything larger than" setting that is a bit too low? -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Unix Wizzard, Hacker, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, Mystic Computer: toy speeds work, you have more time to play with it